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Hello, I'm Erica Kelly from the podcast Southern Fried True crime, and if you want to go from podcast fan to podcast host, do what I did and check out spreaker from iheart. I was working in accounting and hating it. Then after just 18 months of podcasting with Spreaker, I was able to quit my day job. Follow your podcasting dreams, let's break or handle the hosting, creation, distribution, and monetization of your podcast. Go to spreaker.com. That's spreaker.com. If you could completely remove one phrase from your vocabulary, which phrase would you choose? I don't know. Correct answer. No, I meant I don't know which phrase, and the best way to banish I don't know from your life is by cramming your brain full of stuff you should know. Join your host, Josh and Chuck on the Super Popular podcast packed with fascinating discussions on science, history, pop culture and more episodes that ask, was the lost city of Atlantis Real? I don't know. Is birth order important? I don't know. How does pizza work? Well, I do know. Bit about that see? You can know even more, because stuff you should know has over 1500 immensely interesting episodes for your brain to feast on. So what do you say? I don't want to miss the stuff you should know. Podcast you're learning already. Listen to stuff you should know on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. My name is Lauren Ober, and in addition to being a charming podcast host, I am also a newly diagnosed. Autistic person. My new show, the loudest girl in the world, is all about my weird, winding path to diagnosis, my decision at age 42 to finally get evaluated for autism. Listen to the loudest girl in the world on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's testing my fringe medical beliefs? I'm Robert Evans, toasted behind the ******** back with Billy Wayne Davis for part two of our homeopathy episode. Yes. And Providence. I think God himself has presented us Billy Wayne with an opportunity here. I think that's what. That's how mad. That's how medicine works. Super producer Sophie has an earache that that is that is rather painful at the moment. She's not sure why and traditional medicine has not dealt with it. It hurts. It hurts what kind of pain? It's like throbbing. Like actual pain. Yeah. Like the inside the ear. Yeah. Did you stick anything in there? I mean, I just put no. You can rupture your eardrum. I don't think it's that it doesn't feel like that because I can still hear. Wouldn't I not be able to hear? I don't know if that's how it works. What I do know is that it's time to test machetes. And out ohi. Now I'm with this. We have to do this as a double-blind study. Which means, Sophie, you're gonna close your eyes. We're gonna have to make you blind twice. We're gonna we're gonna hand you both a machete and another kind of non machete knife and you have to hit something with both. And then you tell us which one you feel better after. And that will be a real medical study that will that will forever prove the validity of machetes. Can you just make sure Anderson doesn't get harmed? Anderson, Anderson, your mom's blind and wielding machete. Come over here. Come on. Your mom's blind and wielding machete. Good. Anderson, get over here. No, don't be right under her with the machete. That's protecting me. She's a bodyguard, dog. OK, sorry. You gotta close your eyes. You don't know what you're getting. OK, OK. She's under the table. You gotta close your eyes. OK, we're giving you a random bladed object. May or may not be a machete. No way to know. No way to. It's definitely not keep. My eyes are closed. I can tell by the weight. I'm gonna. I'm gonna guide your hand down towards the object, the copy based instinct that you're gonna hit just so you know where it is. Now rear up and hit it real hard. Anderson's OK. Yeah, Anderson's fine. OK. All right. That's the first one. That's the first one. Now let's scientifically note. Do you feel any different in your ears? Hmm. No, no, no. OK, now close your eyes. close your eyes. Giving you another random bladed object. No, I don't know what it is. Now I'm gonna guide your head down. Hand down again to the copy of basic base against. Thank you. I want to scoot back just a little bit so you can get more strength. You still safe, Anderson? Now again, rear up with all your might and just whack it. Whack it real good. Holy ****. That felt good to watch. Now, Sophie, you don't know in either case what you were holding. No. Yeah, it's powerful. Do you? Does your ear feel better? We have a sport to play after this. Don't **** ** our ball. How's your ear feeling? It still hurts but my ego. Ohh sorry, it still hurts but my but my ego feels great, which is an important part, which is an important part emotionally powerful. It's good yogurt, right? Do you feel confident? Yeah. That OK. That was a funny way to answer that question. Like, do you feel that? Yeah, my dog wasn't harmed, so that's always good. Which felt better. One, yeah. Hmm. So what if you knew how to use the little ones better? I mean, that would just be a completely different study. I'm doing a ****** metaphor right there. Well, we would have to do some research really. I'm not a scientist. Nor am I a doctor, but I think this scientifically proves that machete Jason is a valid branch of medical science. Yep, she's still here. Yep, you are not dead and I think your ear is going to heal as a result of this. If you do get better, it's because of the machete or the dagger. We don't know because this was not, in actuality, a double-blind study. Hmm. But it might mean that just mixing types of knives is I just came up with the first principle of Michelson. What's that? With homeopathy it's like cures like, and with Michelson it's knife cures knife. Now we've got an actual practice. Now we've got it happening here. Marketing hot also. More is more. More, more. The more. The more the more knives you got, the better you are as a doctor I. **** I have some of those. Thank you. I have some uncles that are gonna be. The best doctors in the world, they're still alive. Yeah, there. You assume propter hawk. I don't know doctor talk, but I would rather my brother is a doctor. And I'm sure your brother brother will agree when he hears this episode that this is my brothers. Listen to my podcast. He's out there saving lives. Well, he would be saving more lives if you listen to the study we just conducted. Hmm. And the rare chance you do listen to this. Hi, Jake. Jake, give up conventional medicine. Start practicing machete machete Jason, doctor Moore, doctor Jake Lichterman Michelson. Bleep that name out. Nope. It cures low tea. It cures baldness. It definitely cures low TE erectile dysfunction. Ohh yeah. Mm-hmm. Don't even need * **** when you get a knife. You don't now. Oh yeah, yeah, he might, you know, wow, let's start this episode. 5 1/2 minutes later. We had to test machetes and Sophie. Sorry, so over 5,000,000 American adults and 1,000,000 American children currently use homeopathy on a regular basis, which is too many. So there is a decent chance that some of the people listening to this podcast may regularly use or have used homeopathic products. I I think they probably tuned out after the first episode. I would hope so. I don't think they make it to this one. They're more positive about the founder of homeopathy than any of our other fake die. It's hard not. I mean, he's not clearly. Yeah, he's clearly not a *******. He's clearly not doing his best, just misguided. Yeah. Yeah. Now, I'm not going to tell anybody not to take homeopathic medicine because I eat my weight in narcotic leaves every six months. So, hey, who am I to tell people what's unhealthy? But we are going to talk about a lot of dead babies today because of homeopathy. Yeah, Yep. Now, First off, I should start by saying that, for the record, homeopathy is pretty conclusively proven to be ******** even after that 1835 double-blind study. I I don't even feel comfortable calling it snake oil because there actually is an actual snake oil that's an ancient Chinese medicine that actually has anti-inflammatory properties with testable impacts on the human body. Well, and now they're testing Vipers venom control. They think it can cure certain types of cancer. There's there's a lot of different medicines. Snakes. Yeah. A snake is like when I get sick, I just go roll around in a pile of snakes. God, that I just gave me. I know you were kidding, but still, there's a part of me was like, don't do that. I'm a big snake fan. Adore you. Oh yeah. I think machete ISON and and snakeskin sneaker complementary. It's like being an oncologist. And also. Other type of doctor? I don't know medicine. What I do know is that which one? That wasn't. There been a lot of studies in homeopathic medicine to see how it works. And there I, you know, I don't wanna quote all of those. So I found a fun analysis of 17 of those studies on the efficacy of homeopathy in the Journal of Clinical Pharmacology. It's title is a systematic review of systematic reviews of homeopathy. Just so we can start this episode by conclusively stating it doesn't, it doesn't, does not work. Quote. 11 independent systematic reviews were located collectively. They failed to provide strong evidence in favor of homeopathy. In particular, there was no condition which responds convincingly better to homeopathic treatment than to placebo or other control interventions. Similarly, there was no homeopathic remedy that was demonstrated the yield clinical effects that are convincingly different from placebo. OK. Yeah. One thing that will sometimes he uses, like, evidence that homeopathy works is you'll have some cases where, like, oh, if you actually look at this, the, the homeopathic group actually did slightly better than the placebo group. And it's like, yeah, yeah, but you have to do better over a certain margin. It's like, if you like, if you're giving people like you testing into neurological medicine, it has to help more than a certain percentage of people because the placebo effect is going to help a certain percentage. Exactly. Yeah. So anyway. Yeah, homeopathy doesn't do anything now. I should also note that homeopathic doctors do occasionally attempt to carry out their own scientific studies, much like the studies we just carried out in this room and about as valid as the studies we carried out going to say, I bet they're as thought out to now. Unfortunately, while this the Machete, Asian studies were carried out on consenting patient and adult. Sophie Lichterman homeopathic studies are not always carried out on people who can properly consent to them, and in fact, sometimes they test random substances on impoverished children in the global S. Me. Yay. There exists in this beautiful, dumb, nuclear armed nation of ours, an organization called the National Center for Complementary and Integrative Health. One of the things this publicly funded government entity does is test the efficacy of alternative medicine. Now, this is something I get frustrated about. I don't like the term alternative medicine. There's no such thing as alternative medicine. Medicine is either medicine or it's not. Well, that by definition, an alternative to medicine would be poison. Exactly. Yeah. It's like it's the acid drink the guy make. Yeah, that's what an alternative to medicine is. OK? It made it worse. Yeah. And we, I should say in some earlier episodes of this, I made fun of, like, taking turmeric for everything under the sun because you go to a health food store in Los Angeles or a lot of hipper cities, you'll find turmeric on the shelves for *******. Everything turmeric is has actual medicinal properties. It's powerful anti-inflammatory. It does things like, there are things that you can do with with turmeric. I'm a big fan of Plantago major, which is plantain leaf, and it's it's a leaf that's been used for thousands of years to treat. Owns in societies around the world. And because it's an actual medicine, there are scientific studies that have confirmed that it does, in fact, speed up the healing of wounds. So, like, none of this stuff is alternative. No, it's just what it does. It's just it's just a thing that does something. It's a medicine. Yeah. It just dudes didn't make it. So now, like, dudes are like, well, that's alternative medicine. Like, no, what you do, yeah. Is technically alternative medicine. Yeah, because the earth been medicine itself for a long time. Yeah. That's why people like ******* Doctor Hannan made it to. 89 yes. Yeah, some **** did work back then. Now, when I found out there was a government center aimed at testing alternative medicine, I was a little bit ******. But then I read the results of a study that they conducted in El Salvador, and that made me really angry. And now I'm going to read you an extra, the abstract from this Billy wines that you can get angry too. Thanks. I'm just going to make sure. This VHS tape of Basic Instinct is near your stab at hand to get a knife here. Background despite the widespread availability of oral rehydration therapy, diarrheal illness remains a major cause of morbidity and mortality around the world. Previous studies have shown individualized homeopathic therapy to be effective in treating childhood diarrhea, but this approach requires specialized training. Objective homeopathic combination medicine, if effective, could be used by health personnel on a widespread basis. Methods a double-blind randomized controlled trial was conducted in Honduras to evaluate the effectiveness of a homeopathic combination. Therapy to treat acute diarrhea in children. A total of 292 children with acute diarrhea were recruited, 145 were randomized to the experimental group, and 147 the placebo group. Tablets contained a combined preparation of the five most common single. Homeopathic remedies used to treat diarrhea or placebo were administered by a parent after each unformed stool. So that's good. OK. They're dosing a bunch of kids and you know, the the study found nothing. It admitted that there was no significant difference in the likelihood of resolution of diarrheal symptoms for the group that took homeopathic medicine. Yeah, because it's nothing. Because it you hope it's nothing. Build into here, no? Yeah. Now, the benefit of homeopathy over other kinds of fake medicine is that at least it is just harmless water. Yeah, but not actually all the time. I found a fun article on science based medicine, a wonderful website, which digs into the details of this particular study, and it suggests that they might have slightly poisoned some poor sick kids in El Salvador or Honduras. Sorry, it turns out that two of the most popular substances used in homeopathic diarrhea treatments are arsenic and podophyllum. Now you know what arsenic is. I'm aware. Yeah, it's not great. No. You know what podophyllum is? No. It is a wart remover so strong it is illegal to be administered outside of a doctor's office by a doctor. It's a wart remover. Yeah. Yeah, that that so cannot be sold over the counter burns it off of. Yeah, but it's one that a doctor has to give you. Yeah. No, I've. I used to have some. I had them frozen off, and then I had one burned off with a laser. Yeah. Yeah. That's cooler than the podophyllum. It smells terrible. It's awful. Yeah, but probably not as bad as the diarrhea ward after these kids are given nonsense medicine. Can't imagine. Yeah, I just. ****. Yeah. Now, the writer of that. Science based medicine article notes. I wonder if the IRB, which is like the board that like reviews studies and stuff from cases like this, knew that these were the ingredients being used. Granted, they are so dilute there is nothing left, but there was no data presented to show that these components had actually been diluted that much and therefore posed no threat to the study subjects. Think of it this way, if the remedy has any active ingredients, it's potentially toxic. If it is truly homeopathic, then it's nothing more than 80% ethanol and sugar. OK, so the best case scenario is that these publicly funded researchers who you and I paid for, Billy Wayne, found a bunch of poor, sick kids and then gave them nonsense water and pretended it was medicine. The worst case scenario is that they poisoned sick children with arsenic and wart remover, and it's not a silly fear to be afraid that they might accidentally poison some kids, because it's not uncommon for homeopaths to **** ** the dilution process and dose children because they're not scientists. Because they're not trained to mix chemicals like that. No. And and the. Yeah, there's actually a number of reasons, so we're going to talk about that more in a second. But for just one moment, I want to revel in the last paragraph from that homeopathic study. And this is them trying to like figure out, well, why didn't this work? Why didn't it make the kids better? A number of factors could account for the ineffectiveness of the homeopathic combination therapy, although the homeopathic remedies included in the combination therapy were those most commonly prescribed in the previous studies. It is possible that these remedies would not have been prescribed individually in this population and or that a different combination. Medicine would have been more effective. There's also a possibility that the remedies included in the combination therapy counteracted each other in some way, rendering the individual remedies ineffective. Other factors could be that the therapy was not correctly administered by parents in this study. So it's like, ah, they probably ****** ** by giving their kids the poison water. Wrong. That's who did it. That's who ****** it on us. Yeah. And I also love that. Like, they're they're being like, well, homeopathy has worked in the past on. Patients. Yeah. If you give people diarrhea water you had, usually they don't die. Yes, if you keep people hydrated, the body does some crazy, wonderful stuff every ******* time. Yes, which is why Samuel Hartman lived to be 89, because he drank a lot of water. Super hydrated guy? Yeah, now. At one point Billy Wayne this was meant to be A1 parter episode, but then I Googled my way across a Scientific American article with one of the most horrifying titles I've ever read. You ready for this? There's babies harmed by homeopathic remedies. Families say, damn it, just Can you imagine riding that? Yeah. And then they added we like, that's make it sexier. There's never been a good story that's opened with hundreds of babies. You just don't. Nothing's going to come after that. I mean, what a time we live in too. We're like, I I think you gotta go. You gotta start with the hundreds of babies that's the lead is hundreds of baby needing to click on it. Mm-hmm. Damn it. It opens with a case from August 1st, 2010. A mother gives her toddler 3 homeopathic pills to leave her teasing 1010. Within minutes, the baby stops breathing. My daughter had a seizure, lost consciousness, and stopped breathing for about 30 minutes after I gave her three Hylands teething tablets. The mother later told the Food and Drug Administration she had to receive mouth to mouth CPR to resume breathing and was brought to the hospital. So Hayden's teething tablets, 2010, but there's way more recent cases than that. Umm. Oh, I got this. Oh yeah, you stuck it in the Basic Instinct copy right into limit. Uh, Yep, it is. That is helpful in dealing with them. Dealing with your feelings makes. Thank you, Paul verhoven. Are you healed? No, not yet. It's. May I have an 8 month old so like it's just this? I don't. OK yeah. It's not great. It's not great. This is not going to be an easy one. Oh, so Highlands, the company that made those homeopathic pills, bills itself as providing safe, effective and natural health solutions to parents looking to avoid the danger of modern pharmaceuticals. They sell a wide variety of products for people of all ages. Their website presents the image of a healthy and legitimately medicinal product to show you that. Bill, you want to you want to describe this website to our to our audience? Yes, it does. There. There's two young people running. At sunset on the ocean, the healthiest time and place to run it is since 1903. Yep, and that means it's good. It does. Now it looks it, and even the Highlands logo looks like a like a Purdue, like Pfizer. Yeah, yeah, that's it looks like one of those everything does. It looks like a vague drug act. Yeah, is what it looks like. And it's interesting that they choose that because, like, one of the reasons that these products are so popular is that, like, the Pharmaceutical industry is ****** and like, sells people a lot of dangerous **** and markets a lot of dangerous **** like just for sheer profit and yet at the same time, while you're profiting off of the fact that people don't trust the pharmaceutical. Industry for good reason. You're also, in order to make your product look more like medicine, aping the pharmaceutical industries branding, which is really interesting to me. Well, I think it's smart because, yeah, the Pharmaceutical industry brands everything in a way, not because they will. It's just they've done the research to be like, this is the best way to sell this stuff. So that's pretty smart. They're just copying pharmaceutical peoples research. One of my favorite things to do when I'm really high is to watch pharmaceutical ads and work backwards. And one of the things I've realized is that if you're selling a pill. That helps people ****. You show them jogging. Always jogging because that. Yeah, because that's. Yeah. You can't jog if you can't get. Can't. No, you cannot. You don't wanna go jogging. No. In tiny text on the top of Highland's website, there's a little bit of text that I want to read you Billy Wayne claims based on traditional homeopathic practice, not accepted. Medical evidence, not FDA evaluated. Copy that. Copy that. Unlike Machete ISON, which I'm proud to announce as a result of our double-blind study now has complete FDA approval. My ear. It's healed. Thank you, Sophie. No, it's not. You can buy a machete starter kit. Yeah, we're going to bleep that out. We will. We are now selling machetes and starter kits again. You get a free machete with every $500.00 copy of machete your way to better health. That's a good deal, you guys. That is a great, good deal. Because separately, over $1000 and confirmed by the. FDA to cure what ails you? Absolutely. FDA approved. Come at me, *************. Now FDA stands for Freddie, Danny, and Alex. Now, Highlands products have names that are crosses between hyper modern medicine and ancient snake oil remedies. You can buy Nux vomica, which sounds like something a Roman doctor would prescribe, and bioplasma, which sounds like something you'd pick up in a space first person shooting plasma. Yeah, or sounds like something you sell in college to get beer money. Yeah. You sell your bioplasma? Yeah, you too, man. I got a good deal on. I got 400 bucks a month for the guy in a van. He'll say he wants it good. All that Bioplasma is paying from a tattoos. You can't tell him I'm getting tattoos. Don't tell him. Do not let them know they do not want you getting stick and poked. So you can find Nux vomica and bioplasma on the the Highlands Online store. What you won't find on that site is there homeopathic teething tablets and gels. You know why? No scientific Americans going to tell you why. Babies who were given Highlands teething products turned blue and died. Babies had repeated seizures. Babies became delirious. Babies were airlifted to the hospital, where emergency room staff tried to figure out what caused their legs and arms to start twitching. Not a great paragraph. **** yeah, not a great paragraph. Is it still up? So they did eventually stop selling the poison. OK, the baby poison Highlands. All natural baby killer pills. We just had to rename said give her name. Tell them what we actually does so far. I will say I would support if they if they marketed them as baby killing pills, that would not be unethical. I don't. That shouldn't have a problem. Yeah. Yeah. Like if you're gonna sell cigarettes to kids under the name like Uncle Gonzos bubble gum flavored cancer stick. But Highland still exist, doesn't it? Oh yeah. Highlands is still around. Yeah. They're never going to die. No. Yeah. No, they're not. Over a 10 year period from 2006 to 2016, the FDA. All other image on their website? Yeah, I just pulled it up when I was doing the research. That's like, yeah, yeah. Over a 10 year period from 2006 to 2016, the FDA collected reports of adverse events and more than 370 children who had used Highlands homeopathic teething tablets or gel, a similar product that is applied directly to a baby's gums. Agency records show 8 cases in which babies were reported to have died after taking Highlands products, though the FDA says the question of whether those products caused the deaths is still under review. Following an FDA warning in September, Highland said it would no longer manufacture. Teething products, but they remained on some store shelves for months and are still available on the Internet. They are likely continue to be used in homes nationwide. That's great. I I love the kind of logic for a company like Highlands where they're like, they have so many products on their website. Yeah, right. Well, when we gave our water to diarrhea patients, they got better, which means homeopathy works. But when all these babies took our teething pills and died, there's no evidence it's connected to the teething pills. Prove it. This sucks, but the money truck keeps showing up. Yeah, we all have so much money. Can't let Dissona couple dead babies getting away. The money truck? Yeah, exactly like that's why you get a money truck with big wheels. Roll right over them, babies. Oh yeah, Speaking of running over babies. No, no, no, no, no. Is that a bad way to go into ads? Speaking of babies living forever ever babies. These products and services that advertise on our show will make your babies live longer than Highlands all natural baby killing pills. Again, guarantee. Guarantee. That's a guarantee. I feel like we can safely make that claim. But if the FDA wants to come at me? Go for it. Products. Mint Mobile offers premium wireless starting at just 15 bucks a month. And now for the plot twist. Nope, there isn't one meant mobile just has premium wireless from 15 bucks a month. There's no trapping you into a two year contract. You're opening the bill to find all these nuts fees. There's no luring you in with free subscriptions or streaming services that you'll forget to cancel and then be charged full price for none of that. 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In this special episode, we sit down with Doctor Jane Goodall to hear her inspiring thoughts on how we can create a better future for humans, animals and the environment. If we don't help them find ways of making a living without destroying the environment, we can't save chimps, forests or anything else. And that becomes very clear when you look at poverty around the world. If you're living in poverty, you can't afford to ask as we can. Did this product harm the environment? Was it cruel to animals, like, was it factory farmed? Is it cheap because of unfair wages paid to people? And so alleviating poverty is tremendously important. Listen to amazing wildlife on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. You're mirabar mate. Courage already runs in your blood. He needs to be stopped. We've been silent and complacent for far too long. Sisters of the Underground is a new scripted series about fearless women exploring the life and legacy of the Mirabal sisters, Dominican women who were brave enough to challenge decades of oppression. Together, they led their country toward a revolution against Rafael Trujillo, the brutal dictator who ruled the Dominican Republic for 30 years. Please, please help us. Do you has blood on his hands? From executive producers Dania Ramirez and Eva Longoria, that's me, comes the powerful retelling of this all too relevant narrative. Listen to sisters of the underground as part of My Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio App, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. We're back. We're back. Taunting the FDA, as per usual. I think this is the administration to taunt the FDA yet. Yeah, I think we're OK. I think we're OK. Yeah. They do not have a lot of teeth these days. No. Yeah. So, yeah, the probable culprit for all these baby deaths is a key ingredient in Highlands teething products. Atropa belladonna. Yeah. Deadly nightshade. All Jesus. Yeah. Yeah. Which is one of the one of the plants that a Samuel Hardman was a big fan of using in his home. He had a head. His kids. He will give his kids that. Yeah. It is not something. In case the name deadly Nightshade did not key you in. It is not something you should give to children or anyone. I don't know anyone. Unless you're doing a murder. Yeah, and I think it that if you're murdering someone solid pick, get in that murder now. Homeopathic medicine is supposed to be so deluded. Literally no molecules of the original substance remains, but in practice, homeopaths kind of **** ** sometimes. In 2010, FDA inspectors at a Highland facility reported substandard manufacturing processes and inconsistent levels of belladonna in their products. That is a nice way of saying not all of their water had the poison diluted out of it. It's like animals. Yeah, where? Sure, we'd like to say that's 10 milligrams, but they don't know. One of them might be 10 and then. When next to it might be 0, it's all in one thing it's yeah, it's when you're it's not science. They're not doing science. They're doing money. They're doing money and they're great at money. They make billions of dollars. Yes, all these companies because you don't have to because people it's frustrating because like people rightly, like we just did an episode on the Sacklers and like the the opioid industry, people are right there like, oh, the Pharmaceutical industry is ****** ** and instead they just go to another company that's just as bad. But at least those pills get you high. It's yeah. It's like going like, McDonald's is ******. I'm going to Burger King. Yeah. OK, dude. It's like that brief period when McDonald's was trying to get everyone on board salads. That killed who would choose Burger King over McDonald's? No, I agree. But that's the point I'm making. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's both garbage. They're both garbage. McDonald's preservatives do taste better. They do. They do. And they're fries are better. They also about to say we're measuring by one thing. It has to be by the fry quality behind the ******** is of course supported by McDonald's in their corporate masters. Nordine defense systems, Nordine defense systems, whether you want French fries or a rocket propelled grenade launcher. We're calling shooting kids. Ohh, we're killing it oht. It's kind of really dark. Can you? That's a double meaning that they're doing really well as a company and they're also murdering people and they're also murdering I could go and advertising really? You could hire us corporate America. Yeah. Now after the first deaths, the FDA issued a public warning that there were quote reports of serious adverse events in children taking this product that are consistent with. Ladonna, toxicity. We just want to let everybody know that that might kill your baby, and that is how you say they're poisoning babies with belladonna without saying they're poisoning. There's reports of serious events and children taking this product that are consistent with the poisons and the product. Yeah, serious event just happened. The FDA further warned that little babies are particularly vulnerable to the neurotoxic poison because they're babies. And, quote, the absorption of belladonna from the skin and mouth is fairly rapid in babies. Yeah, because they're just weak. Little good. They're weak little goose. Yeah, yes, yeah. They're not supposed to be given. For example, belladonna, anything that milk, anything but milk. Really? Like, you avoid perfume around babies, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's not great. They they're they're they're tiny. They're not like horses. They're not tough. Yeah, there's skulls. Not even finish. They're missing most of the good bones. They only got the crappy bones at first. Just give it some. You got a little thing that's called deadly. Give it to the baby. This is the deadly nightshade. That's the one for a baby. Should we start with just the OK nightshade? No. Try the deadly one. Try it now. Highlands has been in the fake medicine business for 114 years. They're based right here in the city of Los Angeles. I guaran ******* tee. That is not surprising. Yeah, they are the largest homeopathic business in the United States. They claim their products are safe, and there's no proven scientific link between their teething products and infant seizures or deaths. Spokeswoman Mary Bordman said. A. Point of view. What a point of view. Here's our stance. There's no scientific proof we killed those babies, which is only a sitting said by good people. Yes, I'm going to quote from spokeswoman Mary Bornman talking to Scientific American. That doesn't mean that children don't have a sensitivity to a product. There's a lot of sensitivity on kids parts and we have to watch carefully. It's not something that condemns the entire product line. Can you imagine sitting across from her when she said that? I and I love the question because then you're she's saying like there's no proof that there's a link between our teething products and that seizures. But infants might be sensitive to the poison in our teething products. Yes, which, but that doesn't mean that RTR all of our that's your weak *** baby. Your *** baby tough in that *** ** * ***** don't you get a tough baby and then we'll come talk. You tried giving him Scotch? Ohh. Hold on. Hold on. Wait, wait just a second. Wait. Is your baby a *****? That's what happened. And if your baby. Is a weak, limp, wristed little little sucker. I have a suggestion for how to toughen your baby up, machete tison. Sells new babies, Miss Edisons babies. Machetes, which are only $700.00 each. Now a lot of parents are going to spend money on an expensive crib. Billy Wayne on a nice car seat? No, none of that's going to get you as far as the $700.00 baby machete it is, yeah. Razor sharp. The sharp is good because babies don't have a lot of arm strength. So when they hit something, if you really want them to cut into it, it's got to be the sharpest machete, and it needs a little size to it, so it also carries. Yeah. You want some weight? The a good children's machete should be 70% of the weight of the baby. Does most of the world's most of the work just grant letting gravity pull it down? Yeah. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. And the the the baby's machetes have slings, so you can use the machete to carry your baby. That is true. And I would have one if my wife wasn't smart. No, but I've married a smart lady anyway. Male $700.00 to behind the ********. Just stick it in an envelope. Put it in there, right. Machete on the envelope and no dress, and we will find you. We will find that money. We don't. Yes. You send us the money and we will find you with the machete. Yeah, that. We don't need your address or phone number or name. That's the behind the ********. Promise. Send us the money. We'll find you within the find you with the product. OK. So yeah, it's frustrating. It took four years for the FDA to get Highlands to change their recipes to something hopefully less dangerous. Guys, I hear. Hey, another e-mail? Just a quick, gentle reminder. Stop putting poison in your baby stuff. Maybe don't like. Yeah. Memo to staff RE poison pills for babies. Hey, maybe not. Hey, Highland FDA again? I know I'm being a pain, but could you guys stop doing the poison? Babies? No? OK, we'll drop back in. OK, we'll try back another time. See if you guys change your mind. We're patient here now. While Highlands did change their recipe in the years since, the parade of deaths and seizures continued. No Scientific American. No way. In case 462749 dated September 15th, 2011, a physician sent Highlands a handwritten note stating his patient, a 5 month old girl, was unresponsive for 45 minutes after taking his teething tablets. I am sure this was not an allergic reaction, he wrote. I would like you to report it, find a contact at the FDA so we can start an investigation and pull this dangerous unregulated product from the shelves. 1 Mother wrote the company to say her son's peoples dilated like marbles with big black eyes. Another described seizures her daughter continued to have after taking the tablets and told the company. I hate, hate, hate you for this reasonable response, that is, that's actually kind of. Yep, the tepid response, said June. Yeah, maybe third hate. No, there's three fourth hate. Might have been good or *******. Yeah, good, good time for a *******. Just like a white powder in that envelope, too. You know, I was gonna say going in this episode, there's no justified time to send a boy. I shouldn't talk about mailing powders through the nose. Let's just move right along. Just no. Karina Talbot, a 26 year old mother, told Scientific American that she picked Hylands teething products because they were marketed as natural. And clearly natural is better than whatever unnatural stuff is in the teething products that don't contain belladonna doesn't. These suckers gave their kid, uh, pacifiers. Those don't have any poison in them at all. And he is. God. The the the leaps the human brain makes. Yeah. I think egos. I mean, ego seems to be really involved in a lot of this stuff. Well, ego and I think just a lot of it's just, you know, there's so much information to take in. Yeah. And people, average people, are necessarily great at credibly reviewing sources. And, like, you have a lot of friends who are like, Oh no, my, my kid. And there is stuff where, like, I was just talking about pacifiers, but like, there been cases where, like pacifiers made by some shady company and a bad factory like China or something, like lead on them and ****. Like, it does it. Like there's a lot of **** gets in the ******* formula. Exactly. Everyone. Nothing's perfect. And so people like see natural on a label and assume it really means something and also assumes that natural, like, like, they don't think about the fact that like raisins. Natural. Yes. Like, yes, like that. And they don't like, my dad makes that joke is like organic. Yeah. He's like, what's that mean? Yeah, he's like it. And it's it's mostly about a marketing buzzword at this point. Like, they're like, which is not to say that there's not some, like some of the practices that are. Advocated by that crowd can be good, but like the actual legal definition is very easy to game. Ohh, it's so easy. Like game you talk about. Like people like it only uses organic pesticides. Ever been in a farm that's been sprayed with organic pesticides? It's just like as much sulfur as you could fit in the can. That's all it is. Good for you, no? And that's not even the right way to do that organic stuff. Like my friend that lives in Eugene, he's a professional cannabis grower and they grow it organically, but it's all from like other plants he's mixing and it's insane. What he does, yeah. But what he was like, what these other people call organic is not. He's like, he learned from this Korean, this whole Korean man. It's like. Sorry, OK. We're all being marketed to all the time by everyone and it's one of the reasons why. And I don't want to make like Karina Talbot, the mother here, who like picked these teething products because the natural to be a bad person, like there's so much **** out there that like people make bad decisions by definition because there's it's so hard to pick the good information from the bad and it's just, it's complicated and it's our government, the FDA should do more to make it very clear. To stop a company like Highlands from making themselves look like a legitimate pharmaceutical company, for example, it just has to be clear what you are. Yeah, yes, I totally agree. If there was Highlands brand nonsense, water now with poison, like, yes, that's a fair. I'm fine. You can you can have that product. Yeah, exactly. So I'm going to quote from Karina Talbot again. When our 4th kiddo comes around and starts teething at three months, we were like, OK, well what can we do to give him some relief? Someone told us about the teething tablets and we thought give them a try. So she gave her son some Highlands teething products and his hands started twitching. Then his feet. The twitching got worse over the course of several days and it took a while for she and her husband to realize the little seizures were related to the teething tablets. When she stopped dosing her son, he stopped seizing. Now this represents one of the better case scenarios. The worst case scenario is FDA. It's 10723317, a mother who in 2014 gave her nine month old daughter 2 teething tablets. Quote she gave her infant the tablets, then a bottle, then left her to sleep. When she checked on her 45 minutes later, she was dead in her crib beside a puddle of vomit. Yeah, God, yeah. Now, five months later, the mother of this deceased child read online that babies had suffered seizures after taking Highlands baby killing pills. So she reached out to them. And here's Scientific American talking about Highland's response. I bet it was good. I bet it was up. There were like spectrum. You might need the big knife for this one, Billy. No customer did not request a refund or replacement. Noted this island staffer who filed the report with the FDA. Highlands also noted that it was not able to test the bottle because the customer threw it away. Due to the limited information provided by the reporter. No further investigation is possible at the time of this incident, the company concluded. There's just nothing we can do about this dead baby case. She didn't save the bottle. That's real unfortunate. Whoever the boss was at Highlands, like, who's our best sociopath? Yeah, who who is our worst person? It's just them on this. He's just a Christian Bale character in the corner, just stabbing a lady. What? Oh, I'll do it. Hey, Jim. There's more dead kids. We need you to send a real bad e-mail. Time to get to work. Now, the FDA could do a lot more to police homeopathic medicine, but dealing with homeopathic medicine is generally low on their priority list. And that's you wanna talk to these idiots? Yeah, there's a there's an aspect to which that's fair because the idea is that homeopathic remedies are just water. So, like, you can see how the FDA would prioritize. Like, oh, there's people bleaching their kids. ******** to stop autism. That's got to be a priority over the water selling nonsense. Like, you can see the logic there. And also like all the other pill companies. But all the other pill companies trying to, yeah, just make all the illegal drugs legal and change the name. So we're focused on that too right now, which we should just let people do so that I can bite allotted in the grocery store again. But that's beside the point. And the personal issue more than a societal thing I'm talking about. Yeah. So yeah, the all this stuff that we've talked about, Billy gets more attention from the FDA's limited resources than homeopathy. But that's not the only reason regulators take a light hand. And the baby poisoning industry. See, the complementary and alternative medicine, or Cam lobby, is the official lobbying arm of homeopathy and other sorts of, you know, alternative medical trials. Yeah. Why wouldn't they need a lobbyist? Of course, just like pharmaceutical companies. They looked around the dollars in lobbying, too. We're not shady enough. Yeah, let's do what? The pharmacy. We're not like pharmaceutical companies. You can trust us, but also let's do everything pharmaceutical companies do. Could you get a hand on their business because they make so much money, they print it? Yeah, we could make that money. I don't have to spend any money even researching medicine, tending to research. We can just put poison in water and give it to babies. Hmm. The ******* margins on that ****** wild, yes? Back in 2013, they lobbied for a clause in the Affordable Care Act, section 2706, which would have forced insurance companies to pay for so-called alternative medicine. This language was added to the ACA by Senator Tom Harkin, a lobbyist for the American Chiropractic Association and a member of the Integrative Health Policy Consortium around, or HPC. Yeah, according to this senator. Jesus, it's all fine. Just the chiropractic which we know is good. According to Forbes quote, it is virtually certain that lobbyists wrote that section and Harkins simply inserted it into the law. The IHPC is a lobbying group dedicated to obtaining more government money for homeopathy, naturopathy, chiropractic, acupuncture, and a raft of other ineffectual medical practices. Now Section 2706 is not all bad, just as the world of complementary medicine is an all bunkum. But it does mean that in addition to guaranteeing taxpayer funding for debatably useful. Things. It may also have meant more taxpayer dollars for businesses like Highlands in general. The Cam lobby fights to have their medicine treated as medicine for the purpose of insurance billing, but not treated as medicine for the purpose of making sure it's safe and effective to give to babies. Oh, it's a profit. We want to sell it like medicine, but we don't want to have to prove that it works or is safe. Like medicine. Yeah. Do you see why this is fair? Yeah. This is how it should be. Yeah. Yeah. They're the, they're the are the reverend R&B singers. Yes. Yeah, it's the Christian rock'n'roll of medicine. Yes, yes. Now we love Jesus as they snort cocaine and have sex on their bus. But we don't pay tax, but we don't have to pay taxes, which means more cocaine. Always party with the Christian rock band If you get the chance. If you do get a chance, it is fun. It's a great time. They're good musicians too. They just don't know. They don't do it on stage. But you get them back on that bus, do a couple of lines, yeah, they like all the same music. Then you get the the Black Sabbath. Is it? It's just a weird curtain to pull behind you. What in the ****? Oh, it's a money thing. It's a grift. OK, OK, now. The Cam lobby and the money that they spend lobbying is part of why it took so many years for the FDA to push Highlands to reformulate their famous baby killing pills, and part of why when Highlands did reformulate that **** they didn't necessarily make it less toxic. Sarah Sorscher, an attorney for the Public Citizen Health Research Group, told Scientific American this the FDA could bring the hammer down on them, but it doesn't. At the point where you have infants being hospitalized and deaths reported, it's simply not acceptable for the agency to delay in taking action. Seems fair. Yeah, the FDA's. Good division determines whether or not a product on the market is unsafe, but in order to make that determination, the FDA relies heavily on reports from actual doctors in the field in which drugs and drug like substances are killing people. This is a particular problem with homeopathic products because they're supposed to just be water, which means physicians rarely think to ask if a patient has been taking homeopathic teething pills. Doctor Edward Boyer, a Harvard toxicologist who works at the Harvard Medical School ER, told Scientific American this if I'm working in the emergency room and I have a family that comes in with a seizing infant. You may not have the wherewithal to get the history of homeopathic use. You're not going to assume it's the water pills, so it means that they don't notice a lot of yeah, this contributes to an illness. When you don't think you're giving them anything. So why would you tell them exactly? It's natural. Yeah. It's like, yeah, you know, like I gave him extra kale or something. Now, what is natural, Billy Wayne, is our homegrown medical machetes. Every one of our machetes is grown organically on a organic industrial factory in El Salvador. The good part of the good part of El Salvador? Not corrupt. Just natural polymers, plastics and carbon steel are used in the organic growth of our health machetes. They have the best polymer trees. The best polymer trees by far. By far. It's a fact some belladonna included products services. Mint Mobile offers premium wireless starting at just 15 bucks a month. And now for the plot twist. Nope, there isn't one. Mint Mobile just has premium wireless from 15 bucks a month. There's no trapping you into a two year contract. You're opening the bill to find all these nuts fees. There's no luring you in with free subscriptions or streaming services that you'll forget to cancel and then be charged full price for none of that. 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In this special episode, we sit down with Doctor Jane Goodall to hear her inspiring thoughts on how we can create a better future for humans, animals and the environment. Anything, particularly young children out into nature so that they can experience it and take time off from this virtual world of being always on your cell phones and so on. And get the feel of nature so that you come to be fascinated, then you come to want to understand it, and then you come to love it, and at that point you want to protect it. And then we'll come to the sort of healthy world that I envision as a good future for us. And the rest of life on this planet. Listen to amazing wildlife on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Your miraval mate courage already runs in your blood. He needs to be stopped. We've been silent and complacent for far too long. Sisters of the Underground is a new scripted series about fearless women exploring the life and legacy of the Mirabal sisters, Dominican women who were brave enough to challenge decades of oppression. Together, they led their country toward a revolution against Rafael Trujillo, the brutal dictator who ruled the Dominican Republic for 30 years. Please, please help us has blood on his hands from executive producers Dania Ramirez and Eva Longoria. That's me comes the powerful retelling of this all too relevant narrative. Listen to sisters of the underground as part of Michael Toura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So if you were back, how's your ear feeling better? Now my heart hurts from hearing how horrible these people. Oh yeah, everything's happy, right? It is. It is having it is heavy. Yeah, but I don't think that's true. Like, really ******* angry. But I like it's numbing. My anger is numbing my ear pain because I'm just. I can't think about anything else. I'm a shady, actually. That's why behind the ******** the podcast is FDA supported to treat all kinds of aches and pains. I also thought, you know, would look pretty cool with a little dog machete. Oh yeah. Now our dog machete vertical is going to take off in a Q2 of 2020. Cool. Yeah we're it's it's hard to make a machete that a dogs paws can hold but we're working on it, figured it out. We have top men on the project we use deadly nightshade only top men. Top men and women, thank you. And a gender machete experts, I don't know. Top, top whatevers. They're fluid. They're fluid. Just like our new liquid metal machetes. That would be cool. Yeah, it will be cool. Q4 2020. Just in time, yeah. We're gonna need them now. The good news is that in December of 2016, more than half a decade after the first deaths were reported, Highlands pulled their baby nighttime teething tablets off the shelves. They were adamant that their safety standards were incredibly stringent and frame this is basically we have to pull this stuff from the shelves because the FDA is a bunch of *****. That's the only way that doesn't get me meanies ******* dad, a Highlands representative told Scientific American. Homeopathic medicine has a very large margin of safety. Our testing ensures there's not too much belladonna and he bottle. If there's any belladonna in a teething product, it's too much. There's not lot ohe it's these ***** babies. Hmm. Just on January 27th, 2017, the United States Food and Drug Administration posted this fund press release. FDA confirms elevated levels of belladonna and certain homeopathic teething products. You can't stop these people from putting poison in baby pills. They just love it. Why? Because they're just they're not taking the proper precautions. But I don't. I don't have to. That's OK that is exactly. If humans don't have to, they don't do it. Yeah. It's like the people who are like, all these regulations are, like, for, like, health and safety, like, OSHA **** is like, slowing down innovation. It's like, no, dude, people would be, like, shooting at workers to make them move faster if there weren't laws against that. Yes. There's no OSHA rules in our recording studio. And I regularly throw knives and bagels around with the sling. Like, it's terrible. That is true. It's terrible. Yeah, I should be in. In charge of the country. So yeah, this press release revealed that Highlands was not the only company accidentally dropping belladonna into its teething products. Another homeopathic medicine company, Raritan Pharmaceuticals, was forced to pull their products off the shelf when poison was found in them. So that's good. That's all right. Now, if you're a sane person, you might be wondering why your homeopathic products regulated as drugs. If they're at best water and at worst poison water, that's a little odd. In it. Yeah, this all turns out to be thanks to a special law made just before World War Two. Here's Forbes the 1938 law was the brainchild of a US Senator, Royal Copeland, who happened to be a homeopath. Senator Copeland inserted language into a major Food and Drug law that declared homeopathic preparations to be drugs. It also allowed homeopaths themselves to maintain the official list of all these drugs, called the homeopathic Pharmacopeia. Talk about the fox guarding the hen house. Thanks to aggressive lobbying by homeopaths, homeopathic ingredients are not subject to the normal review required of real drugs. Most importantly, homeopathic drug makers do not have to prove their products are effective. Cool, that's a I'm glad that that's just democracy. Good law. Knocking it out of the park again, that's. Senator, who's a homeopath, says that we should treat them as drugs except for when we have to prove they work. Yeah, and sit people have an issue with that. Oh man. One of the fun products that homeopaths get to market as medicine without proving any therapeutic benefit for it is topricin. Topricin is generally marketed as a natural pain relief cream. You can buy it as a cream or a spray, or in a special formulation for fibromyalgia. For 1499, you could also buy 12% for children and a 1.5 ounce tube, the seller of that. Particular Product Valley Medical supplies says that it helps with aches and pains. Cuts and bruises heal the knee pain and growing pains. The section on information for parents and consumer states Topricin Junior uses no volatile oils such as camphor or menthol or irritating chemicals. Rather, it stimulates the body's desire to heal the damage that is causing the pain by draining the toxins that build up in an injured area. A new toxins? Yeah, they're they're in play. Yeah, that was destined. That was just been waiting. I was like, they're gonna say toxins. Now, I like this theory that this thing activates. Yeah, your body. Yeah, like there's some substance out there that is like your body. Just like what? I didn't know to heal until the cream got on there. Thanks, man. Love that we're again using our, our, our, our dumb Southern accents to make fun of these people when they're all based in Los Angeles. I just imagine them having us. Yeah, yeah, this. Well, yeah, we could just be like, here's what we should do. Here's what we should do, guys. Here, here's what I'll do. Fix it, bro. Yeah, that's what that is. Uncomfortable. I feel like somebody named Chad just walked in. It's OK. It's OK. You just got here's the problem with your baby bra. There's not enough belladonna in it. You gotta get OK. They call it deadly nightshade. But you know, like when you say sick and you mean something's good. That's the kind of deadly it is, bro. Bingo. Bingo. It's sick. It's sick medicine. That's our new homeopathic supply sick medicine, brah. Then nothing we do is a lie. Ohh God, that's just destroyed my soul. He could get out of the podcast, I think. Comedy. I think we could be millionaires. Sick medicine. I mean, I think in another four years of American products, one of us at least could be the new Secretary of Health and Human Services. Yes. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Anderson. Anderson. Well, Anderson would honestly be an improvement. Anderson will be the president and will take all the ******* **** when it comes our way. Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah. He gets impeached for letting a Russian. Dog digging the yard or something, I don't know. I don't know. What don't they come after U.S. presidential primaries? Anderson, Madame president. Anderson. Now, Billy Wayne, I bet you're wondering what might the supposedly diluted homeopathic ingredients of this topricin miracle pain cream be? I mean, I'm sure it's something great, like it's belladonna. Now, now, Billy, it's not just belladonna, of course. They mix in just it. Just a scosche of heloderma. You know what heloderma is? It's hila. Monster venom. OK, that seems good for baby. What? What just? Acid tripping psychopath is just mixing ****. Well, he tested it on his kids. It was fine. So put it in the pills or the cream or whatever. I feel like they saw this product at, like, Whole Foods. Oh, they sell it all? Yeah, of course they sell. Sure it's available. CBSLA. Yeah. Yeah. Now I wonder if this miracle product, made of deadly nightshade and literal monster poison, has a history of poisoning people. And it just so happens I found in 2018. Your post on the National Institutes of Health website anticholinergic toxicity secondary to overdose of topricin cream, a homeopathic medication. I'm going to quote from that now. A 40 year old man presented with family to the emergency department complaining of headache and blurry vision of 1 day's duration. His wife also noticed a change in Mentation for two hours prior to presentation when he repeatedly asked the same questions and did not recognize family members. His past medical history included hypertension and dyslipidemia something. His daily medications were pravastatin, Meadow floral enamel prinn and non steroidal anti inflammatories for musculoskeletal pains. Social history and family history were non contributory 2 days prior to presentation he had developed a severe pain. In his left foot, which he treated with the over the counter topricin topical pain relief cream. He applied the cream liberally without respecting the recommended dosage. The exact quantity and frequency were unknown. No, that's like every dude. Well, if this says, like, yeah, take two, I'll take four because I'm awesome. But normally your pain relief cream is gonna be lidocaine or something like that. We're like, yeah, you put too much lidocaine on your foot. It's whatever. You're an adult. It's whatever. But he was putting too much Hila, monster venom, and belladonna on his foot. And that turns out to not be great. Yeah, I went to Heela monster about me, like four or five times. Is that good? You're really cutting out the middleman. I just. I just. I got a I turned my ankle. I've been saying for years, Billy, you were ahead of the pack by keeping that heela thing, the monster in your house. Just free and loose. Hmm. Really has helped a lot. I've only been a hospital like four or five times. Umm, he's cool. And I'd like to announce my new product. Just to heal a monster we shipped to your house in a box. Good teething. Good for foot pain, $1000. No address. I will. I will make sure a HeLa monster finds you the no address stamped envelope in $1000. There will just be a large poisonous lizard in your house at some point and you'll know that you're safe. Sick medicine was here. You know, it's weird with all these debates between Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren and the like about, like, should we have Medicare for all? Should we have some sort of, like, hybrid plan? Why not just heal monsters? Just heal a monster, just heal monsters and machetes all over the place? A HeLa monster in every house and a machete in every hand. That's my presidential platform. I think the country would get along a little better, I think. I think we would solve, we would have other problems than the partisan divide currently showing that we didn't foresee. I do think there would be some stuff pop up. There would be some. I didn't see that one coming. But you know what? We didn't think this through. We gotta stay active. That's true. Stay on your toes. With a healer monster in the house, you drink a lot of water. Now, the good news is that this guy who overdosed on topricin did survive. But his symptoms were at one point serious enough that his doctors coded him for having a stroke. So maybe, maybe stay away from topricin. He spent some time disoriented and ******* himself in a hospital before the administration of Ivy Drugs was able to return him to baseline with. Suspected cause of his symptoms was belladonna poisoning. So we've been making fun of the HeLa monster thing, but they suspect it was actually the belladonna. Yeah, when that's the best part of the medicine. No, the HeLa monster venom was actually alright. Thank God that was in. Thank God that was in there. Really counteracted the belladonna. He's looks his wife like. See? I'm alright. I knew pretty smart. I'm still smart. You mix enough of the poisons in there. More is more. I will say that he and his family were lucky that he took the topricin and not, for instance, their infant child. For obvious reasons, in 2017 a 7 year old Italian girl caught an ear infection. Her parents took her to a Doctor Who prescribed antibiotics, but they decided to consult a second opinion and when with a homeopath instead said ear infection spread to the girl's brain, killing her. Yes, Yep, yeah, that's what happens. The parents were convicted of aggravated manslaughter and given three months sentences in prison. They attempted to justify their decision by citing that they were not anti medicine in general, just concerned about antibiotics, which is a wrinkle that makes this case frustrating. The the overprescription of of antibiotics is one of the largest problems in modern medicine. Over 30% of antibiotic prescriptions in the United States at least are believed to be unnecessary. This manifests in a few different ways. Antibiotics are often prescribed to people who don't need them to do mistakes in diagnosis or a variety of other reasons, some of which boil down to medical laziness. They're also prescribed in doses that far exceed with the patient actually needs, which can cause long term health issues in patients like die offs and gut bacteria or whatever. All of these very real examples of problems with antibiotic use. Mean that half informed consumers, like these Italian parents, wind up with an understanding that there's something vaguely problematic about how antibiotics are used in modern medicine, but not really understanding why. So when they go to a homeopath who is already established, a big part of the practice is they'll spend a lot more time talking with you. And doctors are very busy. They're usually, often, very often bad at talking to patients. Bad, good bedside manners are very rare in the US and in my experience and I think a lot of people's experience. So this doctor sits down and talks with them and tells them, no, you don't need antibiotics. Here's another way. And they know antibiotics are vaguely problematic, so they go with the other way. Then their doctors ear infection goes out of control and she dies of meningitis. Jesus. Yeah, it's it's ******. It's super ****** **. It's the ******* vaccine **** too. Is that same just a shadow of a doubt in smart people? Sometimes they're like, well, because at one time I have the machete. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just we need more handsome doctors to have YouTube shows, but not to sell Doctor Oz ********. Yes. To actually tell them what works and what doesn't. We need, we need. I'm. I'm calling on you. Medical community find us sexier doctors than doctor Oz. To confront Dr Oz. Yes. Hmm. It's like like cures like to stop the danger of sexy nonsense. Don't need a charismatic one. Sexy good doctor. Yes, they yes. The only thing that can say. And his their show is just called no. Yep, no. And other doctors out there right now maybe do more crunches. Maybe do more crunches. You know what? It's up to you. I one of my favorite things is to just drive by the hospital and see a doctor outside smoking. That's my favorite ******* thing. You got to make a choice. It's just, I mean, I get that there's a stress relief. I understand, but it always makes me laugh for like that's someone's writing a ******* drama about him right now. He's like, I saw a book on the shelf of one of my very close friends is grandfather that I love the title of and I have not read yet, but I. I know from the title that it's full of good medicine. Live long and die fast. Which I do think is a good goal. Hell yeah. Yeah. Hell yeah. The goal. You wanna live to 90 and then drop dead instantly? I wanna live to 90 and then get shot by a sniper that I don't even know that's actually the best. And that Billy Wayne brings me on to my next grift for this episode. Snipe Edison, the only medicine that's just a man with a scoped rifle. He can we celebrate something new youthanasia? So this is all terrible, but when it comes to infuriating stories of actual malpractice by homeopathic physicians, nothing I have come across beats the case of Penelope Dingle. And because this is a tragic story, I'm going to ask none of us to laugh at that last name. They're Australian. They can't help it. It's not their fault. It's like Walla Walla. Sorry, was there. It's there. In February 2003, Penelope was diagnosed with colorectal cancer. Her husband was a prominent toxicologist in Perth. And the specific form of cancer. He was diagnosed with was believed to be extremely treatable, but Miss Dingell did not opt for that treatment. She had a homeopathic Dr She trusted Miss screen, and Miss Graen told her that she could much more safe miss. Her name was miss. That's the most. It's better than Doctor. Yeah. Now Miss Graham told her that she could hand much more safely deal with her rectal cancer via, of course, of homeopathic and natural remedies. Doctor Dingell claims he went along with his wife's wishes because he wasn't able to convince her that traditional medical treatment. Would be more effective than Miss Grains homeopathic medicine. He later said Pin had her mindset and it wasn't changeable. You argue with her. It's actually what he said. Yeah. I mean, he tried. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. There's also some some suggestions that maybe he was caught up in trying to, like, write a health book with them. It's it's a complicated story. I don't really know exactly, but for months, Penelope and Miss Gray and had weekly appointments. But oddly enough, Penelope's cancer continued to get worse and worse. Sadly, this did not convince Penelope that something might be wrong. There's evidence that she and Miss Gray and even convinced her husband to help them write a book. About treating cancer naturally once she was cured, Dr Dingle later said Penn was in awe of Francine. Francine, Graham, and I felt that Penn would have perhaps left me if I had criticized Francine. He claims that she was unwilling to listen to any medical advice that did not come from her homeopath. Pen repeatedly told me that Francine was convinced she could cure cancer. Near the end of 2003, Penelope Dingle's condition took a sharp turn for the worst, and she underwent emergency surgery to remove a bowel obstruction and save her life. Penelope remained confident in Francine's Grey and after this point, up until a phone call in which her homeopath asked her to sign a letter freeing her from all future legal liability of Penelope dying. Wow. Yeah, like a great physician. Just like a true grifter. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Now, at this point, Penelope started to question whether or not she made. Just a minute now wait a second. Yeah. Eventually she realized that she'd been had by a con woman and wrote Francine Scray in a furious and a heartbreaking letter. In it, she excoriated the homeopath for, among other things, ordering her to a shoe. Any pain medication in favor of homeopathic pain treatments that did not work? Quote you told me many stories about your husband and his overreaction to pain. As I was also an Aries, you advised me that, like him, I overreacted to payment. You gave me a $5 note with the word Phantom written on it. You told me that my pain was a phantom. Product of my imagination. You described your own experience with sciatica and informed me that until I had experienced the sort of pain you'd had then, I would not know what real pain was. The majority of my pain, you informed me, was in my own mind. You saw me sobbing with pain during our contacts. One night, after my bowel obstructed, I called because I could not stand the agony. And your professional advice was go take a bath. I endured over 120 hours of agony before I went against your advisement, used morphine, and got myself to a hospital. In an ambulance during the months you treated me, the hot water bottles you encourage me to use as my main method of pain control burned my skin and ruptured my blood vessels. But my pain was so severe it felt like relief. My entire coccyx area is blue and purple. That's cool, huh? What a God. Yeah, it's a nightmare. And her husband was a ******* doctor. Her husband was a doctor? Yeah. Yo, dude, you're trash, bro. I don't think it's sometimes you can't. He may have been trash. It also may be that just sometimes you can't convince people when they get really roped in by. It's like a religious thing. Like, that's a part of this. Like, she believed in this one. She believed this woman. And. And then yeah. And that's what, I don't think the guy's bad. It sounds like the whole time he's like, I mean especially like your wife is dying of cancer and she's like, well, this woman makes me feel better. So there's a part of you that's like, OK, yeah, whatever we can do at this point. **** now he's probably like, well, I'm gonna kill that Lady. Yeah, is what I'm gonna do. Well, what happened to Penelope? Penelope Dingle died from complications due to colorectal cancer in 2005. It is believed it got too worse. Yeah, it's believed she would have survived if she'd undertaken conventional treatment after diagnosis. The whole case was rather famous in Australia and resulted in a sizable coroner's inquest. But oddly enough, Francine Scran faced no long term punishment as a result of her actions. As best I can tell, she's still a practicing homeopath. Because all she did. Just say don't. Don't. Which is not illegal. Nope, you're just giving someone bad advice, which isn't illegal. Thank God we're all being jail. Yeah, we would all be in jail, but hers is trying to sell snipe Edison. Yes, God. Now Billy Wayne. After an infuriating tale like that of unspeakable tragedy, there's nothing that I like more. Then machete tennis. Yeah, I think guaranteed to cure your tennis elbow because, like cures like. And since this is like tennis, it will fix your tennis elbow. We're we're gonna be healed. We're going to be healed. Is there? Before we do this? Is there any belladonna in this? Oh, ****. Loads. OK. I ******* doubt everything in this room. And Oh yeah, and there's a healer monster loose in here somewhere too. I think we're alright. Gentlemen. Take your positions. Do you? Do you? Do you? Alright, we've got our now rather battered VHS tape of the Michael Douglas Paul Verhoeven Classic Basic Instinct. I stabbed it pretty hard actually. You should serve this time, OK? Doing this one this, yeah, try and overhand. Yeah, that's that sounds good. Damn it. God, that felt good. That was really close to our first actual, our first actual hit. That was cool because it just came out and the dust came out and was really cool. That's belladonna right there. High grade belladonna, here we go, here we go. Ohh, I'm a set of all. Kinda. Yeah, almost out of all that was definitely our closest to. Oh boy. This tape has seen better days seem worse. I'm gonna try and do it from the side this time. Oh, you see, it doesn't have enough frontage area when you do it that way. It's OK that was ohh we lost the case. Now there's shattered plastic all over the room for some mysterious reason. Alright, Billy, watch your eyes. There's a pink Corvette down there, of course, because just to remind us that we're in Hollywood. Yep. Ohhh. Well, Billy, is that it? No. Let's do one more. Do one more. Because I think this one's really going to break apart. I think we're getting it on this one. Yeah, that's a good idea. Yep, Yep. I've lived enough life to know what? Just a reminder, everything we've done is approved by OSHA. Yeah, I signed it. No dogs were harmed in the making of this podcast. Nope. There's a lot of plastic shrapnel in the room, though. Someone's going to have to. Yeah. Yeah. Stick that up on the soundboard, Billy. That'll be fine. That'll make Daniel happy when he comes in here in another day or two. Well. This has been behind the ********. You can find me at bwdtour.com that's got all my live dates, or just Google Billy Wayne Davis and all my Twitter and Instagram comes up to. And again you you grab yourself an envelope. You put between 500 and $1000 in it, Cash Cash. You write either or both of our names and the names of this podcast on it, and at some point in the next year there will be a HeLa monster, a machete, or a baby's machete in your house, depending on what you write on the front inside your house. Not like outside on the porch. No inside here had delivered inside your house. That's the kind of. And again, all of these products are FDA guaranteed to cure earaches teething, colorectal cancer works on all of it. Every problem, FDA problems with the FDA. We'll solve that too. As the School of Michelson states. Knife kieres knife. And if a machete won't fix it, a HeLa monster will. That's true. That's true. That's science. So check out Billy Wayne Davis's website, check him out on tour, and find our website, behindthebastards.com. Find us on Twitter and Instagram at ******** pod. Find me on Twitter at I write. OK, and find a machete wherever sporting goods or weird copper bracelets that cure your arthritis are sold. That's true. Very true. That's the episode. Hello, I'm Erica Kelly from the podcast Southern Fried True crime, and if you want to go from podcast fan to podcast host, do what I did and check out spreaker from iheart. I was working in accounting and hating it. Then after just 18 months of podcasting with Spreaker, I was able to quit my day job. Follow your podcasting dreams, let's break your handle the hosting, creation, distribution, and monetization of your podcast. Go to spreaker.com. That's spreaker.com. If you could completely remove one phrase from your vocabulary, which phrase would you choose? I don't know. Correct answer. No. I meant I don't know which race, and the best way to banish I don't know from your life is by cramming your brain full of stuff you should know. Join your host, Josh and Chuck on the Super Popular podcast packed with fascinating discussions on science, history, pop culture and more episodes that ask was the lost city of Atlantis Real? I don't know. Is birth order important? I don't know. How does pizza work? Well, I do know. Bit about that see? You can know even more, because stuff you should know has over 1500 immensely interesting episodes for your brain to feast on. So what do you say? I don't want to miss the stuff you should know. Podcast you're learning already. Listen to stuff you should know on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. My name is Lauren Ober, and in addition to being a charming podcast host, I am also a newly diagnosed. Autistic person. 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