There’s a reason the History Channel has produced hundreds of documentaries about Hitler but only a few about Dwight D. Eisenhower. Bad guys (and gals) are eternally fascinating. Behind the Bastards dives in past the Cliffs Notes of the worst humans in history and exposes the bizarre realities of their lives. Listeners will learn about the young adult novels that helped Hitler form his monstrous ideology, the founder of Blackwater’s insane quest to build his own Air Force, the bizarre lives of the sons and daughters of dictators and Saddam Hussein’s side career as a trashy romance novelist.
Thu, 13 Feb 2020 11:00
Part Two: Savitri Devi: The Woman Who Turned Nazism into a Religion
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Hey there, it's Ebony Monet, your co-host for the San Diego Zoo's Amazing Wildlife podcast. In this special episode, we're speaking with Doctor Jane Goodall about the fascinating journey that led to her impactful behavioral discoveries on chimpanzees. It wasn't until one of the chimpanzees began to lose his fear of me, but I began to really make discoveries that actually shook the scientific world. Listen to amazing wildlife on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to behind the ******** the podcast where. Every week we read about a terrible person and this one is Part 2 of the story of Savitri Devi. And most importantly, today is the episode recorded on the tail end of my recorders battery. So we are ******* daredevils right now. Wow. OK, I like Robert. You're edging. Yeah, this is the podcast. Edging. Edging, yes, this is edging. This is what it means. This is never been totally clear on what edging is, but I think that this is the first person. The edge. More than 100,000 people at the same time. Wow. OK, that was a flex on many levels and I'm just going to wow through it. OK, so that's what it's all about. Edging is just plowing through it. Wow. Wait, edging is when you're like. I'm not. Could you bring someone to. Yeah. You go to, like, the edge of orgasm, but you you keep you keep, you keep stopping. And then you're like, that's the joke. No. OK, OK, well, I've brought up the joke originally, and now I'm explaining why I was corrected himself, which is what all great comedians do. So so in October of 1945, Hitler's death still fresh on her mind, Savitri Devi took part in the festival of Kali at the Kalighat Temple in Calcutta. Now, Kali is the Hindu deity of destruction, a blue skinned goddess, and in traditional depictions, she wears a necklace of severed heads, a skirt made from severed arms, and wields just about every conceivable manner of ancient weapon in her many arms. Man, you see a lot of times, yeah, it's really cool. Like some of the statues of her like. Looking 20 feet tall, it's metal as hell. Yeah. So, as the goddess of destruction, Kali tends to inspire some pretty powerful feelings. As Savitri stared up at the image of her goddess, covered in gore and armed with massive swords the size of small cars, she blogged Kali for her blessing, a blessing of violence and destruction against the Allied powers who had destroyed her beloved Nazi Germany. She left the ceremony convinced that it was now her duty to do what she'd failed to do. Back in 1939, she had to finally travel to Germany and take part in the resistance to the Allies by any means necessary. She left her 20 cats in the care of a friend and left her body. That's so mean to that friend. Oh my God. And the cats? Yeah, it's pretty wild. Imagine being with the cats behind. This is a person who leaves her 20 cats behind in the care of a friend to go be a Nazi, like a month or two after Hitler died. Like months after Hitler died. You get that text, you're just like, hey. So, like, I have to go do a thing. Could you look after my cat's indefinitely? Right? No, no. Could you look after my cats indefinitely while I go to try to resurrect naziism in 1940s Germany? Parentheses. There's twenty of the cats, by the way. They're here just like, Oh my God. Well, I think that. I mean, it's good stuff and all the cruel and horrible things that this woman has done, and I don't even know all of them yet. This has to rank like top ten. This is bad. It's pretty bad. She's a bad Savitri. Yeah, she's not a great friend or person. But she does finally reach the birth place of Hitlerism, the center of the ideology she'd adopted for herself in 1948. She later wrote in her book Gold in the furnace, that the gods had ordained that I should have a glimpse of ruins. Bitter irony of fate. Germany at that point was still largely destroyed and chopped up into four pieces by its victorious enemies. Savitri's. Writing about this time shows a wild ignorance about the extent of actual Nazi crimes, because she's so horrified at how bad things are in Germany, she writes. Quote One remembers I say that episode of the Second War is 1 beholds the ruins of all the German cities, the plight of men and women in the overcrowded areas still fit to live in, and all the misery, all the bitterness consequent of that devilish bombing streams of fire. Tons of phosphorus relentlessly poured over his people. For five years these were England's thanks to Adolf Hitler for having shown mercy to her soldiers in his hour of victory. These were the thanks of the United States of America for his older orders not to shoot the parachutists captured on German soil. Which is like so she's she's framing the the the British evacuations from the coast of France as like German mercy rather than incompetence on Hitler's behalf, which they actually were, just rank incompetence on Hitler's behalf. No, he's also talking about the mercy of Germany and not killing captured allied. Paratroopers, which was illegal. And in doing this, she's ignoring, for one example, the Malmedy massacre, in which a Waffen s s troop massacred 84 American POW's with machine guns. She's also ignoring the estimated 3.3 million Russian POW's who died in German custody. But if I wind up actually arguing actual history with a dead Nazi, we'll be here all day. So we're just going to move forward from that. But fair, fair, fair. She whitewashes things a bit. Is the point just about you a bit? Just a bit. Scooch just. I mean, obviously it's gonna be horrible seeing Germany after World War Two because, like, the the bombing campaign over, Germany was one of the greatest crimes in history. That said, they kind of had it coming. Ooh, the takes are coming in hot tonight. I mean, **** man. If anyone has ever deserved that, it's ******* Nazi Germany. It's all the same. I mean, they are, yeah. They do present themselves as a pretty clear target. Good Lord. Yeah. Yeah, you can. You can say the allies, maybe the allies went overboard and some areas will also being like. But what were they supposed to do? I think a bit of an overreaction may have been. Like it's historically, you're like, OK, OK, yeah, you got to do something about, you know, I it's it's something to not be happy about. But on of the list of historical crimes I'm going to be outraged at, it's lower than, for example, the ones committed by Nazi Germany. Yeah, sure, sure, yeah. Now, before visiting Germany, Savitri had hung out in Sweden, where a number of Nazis had fled after the war. There, she met Spinhead and a Nazi supporting explorer and author, and a number of former members of the Nazi Party who were hiding out there because, you know, it was a crime to be a Nazi now, she told them. Her mission was to deliver a message of hope to the German people now, since Nazism was a bit unpopular after the Second World War. She was unable to find any printers in Sweden to actually print out this message of hope. So instead, Savitri Devi had to write out 500 leaflets by hand. Each featured a swastika, and these words quote men and women of Germany in the midst of unspeakable rigors and suffering. Hold fast to our glorious national socialist faith and resist. Defy the people, defy the powers which work to nazify the German nation and the whole world. Nothing can destroy what is built on truth. We are pure gold, which can be tested in the furnace. The furnace may glow and crackle. Nothing can destroy us. One day we will rebel and triumph again. Hope and wait. Hail Hitler. Yes, she writes 500 of these by hand and wearing a sari and swastika earrings, Savitri Devi takes a train across Germany and tosses out hundreds of leaflets over the course of about 15 hours. Attached to each was a gift, a small amount of coffee, sugar, butter, sardines or cigarettes. She considered this journey to be an act of religious devotion, describing the leaflets as written and thrown by the gods through me. As her train crossed from Germany into Belgium, she sang a Hindu. Him to Shiva O. I mean, a lot of commitment. A lot of commitment is going into this. Yes, yes. And that is all you can say. Yeah, that is, yeah. Now, so she gets inspired by the success of her first visit and she plans two more trips through Germany. She spent a little bit of time resting in London and meeting up with Fascists in London. And because of all the fascists that are in London, she's able to actually find a printer to print up 6000 additional leaflets to take to Germany using a connection to an old friend. To France, she secured a military permit to visit Germany for a longer period of time, claiming, not falsely, that she intended to write a book about the nation's post war trials. OK, her second trip into Germany lasted 3 months and she successfully handed out all 6000 leaflets. She also met with a number of old Nazis. Number of none of them were very high-ranking. These were like third rate Nazis, so they were better former POW's. And some of these POW's did have legitimate stories of of Allied brutality that they'd faced in captivity. Because, like, you know, it was a war. She interviewed numerous German citizens, introducing herself at the start as a committed Nazi to gain their trust. Savitri would then talk about her belief that Adolf Hitler was still alive somewhere in the world, and assure these defeated Nazis that surely there were only two or three years away from a revival of Nazism in Germany. Images optimiser. Was your Tupac like that is such a wild that's like Hitler's, literally her. Tupac, she's like, no, he's on an island somewhere. You don't understand. Yeah. This is he's gonna drop another mazing album. Yeah, he's got an album. You really? Yeah. You don't be fooled by predict the grasp of this. The holograms a decoy. Ohhh. Yeah, it's sleek. I mean, I think we can. I mean, that said, we both agree that the hologram is a decor. There, absolutely decoying, yeah. OK, now, one of these conversations that Savitri had with the former Ver mocked soldier is worth me reading out here. And I'm going to quote again from the book Hitler's Priestess quote, continuing his narrative to post war conditions and occupied Germany. The old fighters face darkened nice people to talk about Freedom and Justice. These damned Democrats, they have tied us hand and foot so we cannot move. They have muzzled us so we can offer no resistance while they plunder our country left and right, dismantle and carry off our factories. Piece by piece, cut down our forests, take our oil, our iron or steel, all that we have, and into the bargain make people believe that we were to blame for the war. These confounded liars. He lusted for revenge. He longed for the day when the last allies ran for their lives to escape Germany, when Paris would lay in ruins at its next German occupation. Next time he would show neither mercy nor good humor. Savitri Devi felt a sense of mounting excitement as his mood became ever uglier and he began to describe in a raised voice how he would kill his enemies. This was the spirit she sought, the rolling. As of a wounded animal, a war God of the Stone Age, thirsting for blood, barbaric, magnificence. It was a perfect meeting of minds. The violent, resentful German and the Aryan prophetess of revenge. The day of reckoning seemed already nearer. OK. She is a fun trip to Germany. I mean, you know, I she had me at the beginning with the, you know, feeling plundered and betrayed by the Democratic Party. Sure, yes. That's a strong was not talking about the Democratic Party, though. I know it. No, I just there, Rob. Robert, I was away from the MIC at that point. What else can I do? I can confirm you were not away from the MIC as I think everyone. I agree you were right up on this is revisionist. This is absurd. This is Savitri Devi. Levels of revisionism of you. You were the Savitri. Debbie of this post. This. That's so mean. At least make me Elizabeth Holmes of this podcast. Geez, you have not earned that yet. James. Make me a fun one. Thank you. Make me a fun *******. Come on, make me a fun, tragic one with a ponytail, at least. Yeah. There's nothing tragic about Savitri. No. So she returned to France in December of 1948 and immediately began to write a book, gold in the furnace, about her experiences and her growing conception of Hitlerism is something beyond what the Old National Socialist had really believed. In February of 1949, three chapters into her book, Savitri Devi was arrested by French authorities. She spent a total of six months. Yeah, because, you know, it's illegal to be a Nazi for good reason. I'm like, wait, hold on. Unpack that. Yes, I understand. Hmm, yeah. She spent a total of six months in pretrial detention and in prison after her conviction for spreading Nazi propaganda. The time behind bars was good for Savitri, as it historically often is for Nazis who fancy themselves writers like her idol Adolf Hitler. She used her prison time as an excuse to finish her first book. Just uses it as like a sabbatical as one would a sabbatical. Yeah. It's an old Nazi story. She also took the opportunity to meet even more old Nazis. A lot of national socialists were still imprisoned by the British occupation forces, and these old fighters were all too happy to talk with Savitri Devi, her dearest friend. In the prison was a former wardress from the Bergen Belsen concentration camp, a quote beautiful looking woman, a blonde of about my age. In Devil's words, she claimed that this war criminal had the classical beauty of a chieftain's wife in ancient Germany. And again. This was a woman who worked at a concentration camp voluntarily. Yeah. The language is so yeah. Yeah. It's a victory. Writes about, like, how cruel this woman's imprisonment was and how nice the concentration camps was. Like, she's trashed. She's she's trashed. She's she's absolute trash. I'm not going to, like, spend a lot of time debunking her **** like she's garbage. Yeah. And it's crazy. I mean, it's like she is the one that that is like, providing all of this information to. She is the source. It. Yeah, she is the source. And. Again, I can't say it enough. She never had the chutzpah to actually go to Nazi Germany while it existed, I think because number one, she would have been disappointed because, like, none of this, this weird religious **** she attached to it, was an actual part of Nazism in Nazi Germany. Like, she would have like, she would have been like a just like she might have gotten knocked up by some Nazi, like at the orders of Heinrich Himmler. But she wouldn't have. She wouldn't have been anything. Special in Nazi Germany. The odds are good. Like maybe they would have tried to use her to like, propagandize because she knew a bunch of languages. I don't know. They might have like her try to reach out to India, but probably she would have just been another person. I don't know. I think that's an interesting aspect of it. That is an emphasized enough. She just wasn't willing to actually go to Nazi Germany. This place she claimed ruled. Yeah. Cool, cool so well, in late 1949, Savitri Devi was again a free woman and she published her first book to widespread acclaim from the international Nazi community. From this point on, Debbie became a prolific author, writing up every significant event in her life through a mixture of supposedly non fiction works as well as fanciful tales. For example, she retold the story of her first trip back to Europe and the children's Fable Long Whiskers and the two legged goddess whose heroine is a cat loving Nazi named Helium. No, that's cat can't be real. Yeah yeah it's a real book. Yeah that sounds like random words selected from a well it all makes sense. Like the the heliodor is really a self insert character based on everything. We know that Helio Savitri Devi's obsessed with sun gods and goddesses like it's all God. How embarrassing for her. What's embarrassing is that Savitri writes that her self insert fantasy character has quote no human. Feelings in the ordinary sense of the word. She had been from her very childhood, much true, profoundly shocked at the behaviour of man towards animals, to have any sympathy for people suffering on account of their being Jews. OK, the Holocaust isn't bad. Have you seen what happened to cats when I was a kid? But here's the quite a take the cat white, I take that is a wild take to be like, you know how we resolve like violence towards cats also cause violence towards people. Yeah. Surely it's the Holocaust is cool because cats have been mistreated. Is is Savitri Devi is watching you just she just, like, goes to a whole other place. She's like, did you know, like when you were having, like, when you're having an argument with someone who doesn't want to have a good faith argument with you. Yeah. And you're just like, well, what about this? And they're like, well, what about cats in France? What about that? Huh? And you're like, I don't. I've been stunned like a Pokémon. I don't know. Over the next few years, Savitri wrote and conversed with increasingly aged Nazis and gradually refined her theories about the world. Until, in 1958, she published what would prove to be her magnum opus, The Lightning and the Sun. And this work, the ideas Savitri had been rattling around in her head, all finally came together. Hitler, she concluded, was a man against time, fighting to uphold Arian virtues and blood, against the corruption of modernity. She placed him at the center of her own. Trinity, one that replaced the decadent Christian one she'd grown up despising. And her Trinity, I dare you to make less sense than the Trinity she picks there. OK? Yeah. No. You think? Who do you think? Who do you thinks first? Hitler. When a Hitler's about the most important, but he's not the first. Ohh, he's not the first. What? No, it goes in order of it goes in order of like time period. So these are all historical figures. First one is definitely someone ancient Greek. No. Ancient Egyptian Akhenaten, the first monotheist he's generally called. He was like this this pharaoh who declared himself the son God and, like, tried to institute monotheism. And then he died, and everything he did was burned by the people who came after him because they thought he was an *******. OK, and it's weird because she, like, hates monotheism so much, but he's like one of the people she loves, I think just because he's the son God. And she's got a weird thing, she she'll make an exception. She'll give any son. Got a pass, basically. It's it's ******* weird. 2nd in her Holy Trinity is Genghis Khan. Does she give like and here's why why it it won't it wouldn't make sense. I mean basically the why is that he's history's greatest conqueror. He's a great conqueror and he's not Christian or Jewish or anything, you know. OK, yeah. So Akhenaten is the son and the Khan is the lightning and Hitler, she believes, combines the best attributes of both the Pharaohs wisdom with the strategic mind of. Gaga, Scott. Gang, Genghis Khan succeeded in invading Russia during the winter, so I don't know where you're coming from. Savitri question there. This woman is OK one of these two knew how to invade Russia, and it was not Hitler. And then there is the third one. Hitler, or is there? Yeah, the third is hit. The because he combines the best parts of Akhenaten. Terrible cartoon. She's ******* not watched this cartoon wild. Yeah, it's so dumb. Yeah, so there's probably a couple of reasons for our obsession with Akhenaten. For one thing, Akhenaten was deeply revered by the Theosophical Society, which you were a member from our our episodes on anthroposophy and the Theosophical Society held a lot of ties also to the Tula society and all the other weird little occult groups who supported the Nazis early on. Akhenaten had been a utopian thinker who tried and failed to establish a perfect city. A Goodrich Clark, Savitri's biographer, writes that she saw his son worshipping. Alt adds quote rejection of all politics that promotes man's interest at a cost to the beauty and abundance of nature, which is just invented by her. Like she's yeah, I feel like maybe she's she's like me and Jack Skellington. She's just kind of there for the aesthetic and maybe doesn't fully understand what she is all about. Akhenaten is Jack Skellington. Yeah, that is OK OK, now I'm on. Now I'm like, I understand this mindset. If this Holy Trinity doesn't work for you, consider embracing the Holy Trinity of the products and services that support this show. Products, services, and God. What's the third one? Each? Each is 1 1/2 of the Trinity. That's how good both products and services are. Wow. Yeah, they add up to three products. Mint Mobile offers premium wireless starting at just 15 bucks a month. 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Story about the man who simply become known as La Monstre. Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We're back so. God, there's so much to get through with this. This woman's ******* stupid, stupid ******* beliefs. But they're very important. You're stupid. And they're also kind of, they're so dumb and complicated. They're they're so dumb and complicated. You get a feeling that she went through a lot of phases. She's a phases. They all make sense. All say that, like, gal, hmm. They don't make sense of the fact that they're true. But like, based on her history and like the things that she imbibes, they all makes. I can see why, why she came to these conclusions, but they're super dumb. They're really so the core of her Nazism is a love of nature, which was a big part of actual, original Nazism, too. They were very end alike. Like natural life and **** and like taking care of the land and animal welfare. And some of her early books that she wrote when the Nazis were in power but before she was explicitly a Nazi, like the impeachment of man, don't explicitly reference Nazism. And these books, like the impeachment of man, is still kind of popular among chunks of the new age and environmentalist movements today. Savitri Devi's passionate writing on animal rights is actually one of the many little roads that exist between the green movement and the neo-Nazi movement, and it's really ****** **. Debbie herself famously railed against the Allied forces. Urging Germany of its fascist organizations, saying that, quote, you cannot de nazify nature. She believed that nature was fundamentally nationalist, national socialist. And yeah, that's a that's a bad take. I'm going to read a quote from you, man, now, and I want to remind you, there are people who are like environmentalists, who are not Nazis, who read this book today and don't really realize what's going on. A civilization that makes such a ridiculous fuss about alleged war crimes, acts of violence against the actual or potential enemies of ones cause and tolerate slaughterhouses and vivisection laboratories and circuses in the fur industry. Infliction and pain upon creatures that can never be for or against any cause does not deserve faith. A natural human aristocracy, as beautiful on its own higher level as the four legged kings of the jungle, might again rise and rule upon its remains forever. So again, you see how because of the kind of stuff she's written, she's there's this, there's these bridges she's a big part of why? There's bridges between the eco movement and the Nazi movement, and they're very much are. Unlike the hard edge of the of the of the eco movement of the anti climate change movement, there are Nazis and left wing activists who kind of increasingly seem like Nazis in a lot of cases. Which is not to say that like even supporting radical environmental action makes you a Nazi. It's to say that like part of. The what Savitri achieved is building inroads between these little groups and the Nazi movement. So now more, there's a lot of people that get into Nazism through environmentalism, and Savitri Devi is a part of that. And that's kind of the story we're telling today. So that's really knows how to ruin a good thing. It it wasn't as good at it before Savitri Devi. It's always been a ruiner. But she really took it to new levels. Ohh, good. As long as she elevated how bad it was. Yeah, yeah, so the lightning and the sun. Her opus posits a cyclical view of history. She believed that time began with a golden age in which it was dominated by the perfect air. Like a sun in the God age. Like a sun God age. Yeah, God. And this degraded slowly into a silver age. And then a Bronze Age. And both of these. Worse age is featured increased racial mixing that weakened the Aryans. They also featured pernicious Jewish influence. The next age is the Kali Yuga, or Dark Age, which Savitri believed the world had already entered into. She also called this Dark Age the reign of the Jew. No? Yeah. The only way out of this dark age was for the man against time Hitler to gather up the terrible weapons of the Dark Age and use them to bring about the return of the Golden Age. Presumably through genocidal purging of non Aryans and the establishment of a strict racial hierarchy. Uh-huh. Her book was dedicated quote to the God like individual of our times, the man against time, the greatest European of all times, both sun and lightning, Adolf Hitler. Yeah, as a tribute of unfailing loyalty and love forever and ever. God, you know, there's been a lot said about fan culture. I don't agree with all of it, but you know, this is a real argument against fan culture. This is the worst fan culture has ever gone. I feel comfortable saying bad. This is, this is, this is, this is the worst it can go. Sure. It's bad, bad, bad there. And and even the way that she writes and structures these things, it kind of, you can hear that like interest in like ancient history in there because it just sounds like she's kind of connecting these lines that don't actually exist to make it sound like to, I mean kind of like the way she like arguably maybe lifted some of her own like self mythologizing from Mein Kampf, like she's just like putting something she wants to say into a familiar framework. Yeah, it's called syncratic. Well, this is part of syncretism is like taking these other things that you like and sticking it onto this thing. And this is like the main thing she goes down in history for, for doing 2 naziism. Yeah, now I have. I have a lot of debates with myself putting this together about how much detail to get into about savitri's theories. There's a really dark, very vile world of esoteric Hitlerism fantasy based in large part off of her writing, and this **** is dangerous. It spreads a kind of ideological infection that grabs impressionable children primarily in a vice like grip and turns them into something very dangerous. And a lot of people have died from this, and I am not going to. If you're very knowledgeable about this, you will notice there is a lot of things I'm leaving out just because like, this is enough to understand it. And I don't want to just like be spreading weird Nazi propaganda to an audience of, as you said, 100,000 people. The Robert that is the most merciful thing you've ever done. In this entire podcast, yeah, it's just too dangerous, in my opinion. That's good. That's so yeah, I agree. And I don't even know what it is. It's ******* weird. Stupid ****. But yeah, the last thing that's really important to understand about Savitri Devi's beliefs is that she decided Hitler was what she called. Well, she was not the only person. Other people had the same idea, but she's one of the more prominent ones. The Kali Yuga, the 10th incarnation of Vishnu. And she used several segments from August kubizek's Ill advised book, the young Hitler. I knew Kubasek was Hitler's friend when they were like teenagers. PO series. He wrote a terrible book. It's valuable because it's the only insight. We haven't hit Hitler that. But he's clearly wrote it to make money. Is it, like, my friend Dahmer? Is it, like, bad? Yes. It's like the same vibe of, like, this horrible person. Yeah, I knew him. You're like, we were busy. Cool. Yeah. But you also get the feeling that Kubasek didn't really think he was horrible until he, like, he was writing it initially to be in a biography that was published under the Nazi regime as like a Pro Hitler piece of propaganda. And then they lost the war and then he just kind of rewrote it so that it could be like. Now I'm just, I guess I'm just going to explain, my evil friend to the allies is so ******* sinister. Oh my God. I mean, they're people. There's a lot of debates to have about kubizek, but most historians will agree. Well, you have to read kubasek. You have to take him with, like, a lot of salt, and he's trying to subtree. Debbie takes him with no salt at all, and she pulls several passages from his book as like, evidence that Hitler was the Kali Yuga and was, like, channeling. ******* vishnu. I yeah, it's this woman does not understand Shades of Grey, even remote. No, she's just such OK. She would have written Shades of Grey, though, if she had been around. I wish she had like if if that against the better world. Yeah, as with literally every single person you've ever told me about on this cursed show Robert, everything would have been better off if people would just channeled their ***** energy into fanfiction instead of brutal hate and murder. Every single time. ************ to fanfiction is the only things that will save us from the next Hitler. It will absolutely. And and and that's where the Kylo Ren stands. Come in if you know when angry person who spends too much time writing fan fiction for under no circumstances stop them the last. Encourage that behavior. Yeah, the lives that will be saved. Them doing it. Ray love fanfic. I can't even. No circumstances stop them. The law encourage that behavior. Yeah, the lives that will be saved. You're doing of reylo fanfic. I can't even begin to tell you. Yeah, it's good. OK, so this is horrible. Horrible. Back to what you were saying. That was horrible. So she, like, reads kubizek and she becomes convinced that a couple chunks of that book are evidence that Hitler is channeling Vishnu. Is the avatar of Vishnu. Yeah, sci-fi. So yeah, there's like, there's these moments in the book where, like, Hitler will like that, that kubizek writes very, like, purple prosy where Hitler will, like, suddenly, like, in the middle of a conversation, like, make some sort of, like, grand statement about the future. And it's like, maybe it's true because he was Hitler. Like, it wouldn't be the weirdest thing if Hitler had always been that guy, right? Sure. But also, Kubizek wrote this well after Hitler, you know, was done with. And it's entirely possible he was like, people are going to expect him to make grand speeches. That are like dark and crazy about the future because he was Hitler and he threw them in there because that's what people were like. We don't know. Yeah, yeah. So, decades later, Savitri Devi would claim that her initial inspiration for the idea that Hitler was the Kaliyuga had come from a conversation she'd had in 1936 with Satyananda Swamy, the founder and head of the Hindu mission where she'd worked. She claims that Satyananda used to say and including directly from her writing here, Adolf Hitler is the reincarnation of the God Vishnu. Vishnu is the aspect of the Hindu Trinity who goes to keep things from rushing to destruction, to keep them back to going against time. Time is destruction you have to destroy in order to create again. But there are forces that try to postpone destruction. And he said Hitler was the reincarnation of that force, and he was, he was. But it's a nice thing to hear, a very refreshing thing to hear from a Hindu sage. I told him I came here because I'm really a Pagan, a worshipper of the sun. And I believe in the Pagan reaction of Emperor Julian. And I came to India to get, if possible, a sort of tropical equivalent of what we have had in Europe before Christianity. And I am not a disciple of any Indian. I'm at a cycle of Adolf Hitler, he said. Good, good Adolf Hitler. He's as much a Hindu as any of our Hindus. He's an incarnation of the God. Vishnu probably never happened but might have. I mean like that's a very particulate yeah it is but one of the things that Hindu scholars who again are generally very critical of a lot of all of these claims of civilians will point out some like one of the kind of downsides of sort of this very open aspect of of Hindu mythology where it kind of upset accepts new things and new gods and other religions and like it's a very open canonically in a lot of ways and so there were a lot of Indians who would have. Very well. Might have been like, oh, OK, you worship Hitler. Sure. He's probably like this, like, because, like, they're just looking at a way to understand through their religion, this thing that matters to you. Like, yeah, again, who knows? You'll get different opinions on this depending on who you go to. So, yeah, we don't know what's true. What is important is that after Savitri Devi starts writing about all this **** a lot of Nazis come to believe it. In fact, the reeling and wounded remaining Nazis of the West. Felt like Savitri's occult musings were basically a breath of fresh air, and she spent her middle and later years traveling around and meeting fascists all over the world. In 1961, she made her first direct connection with the English neo Nazis of the British National Party or BNP. As the war years receded further and further away, an international agglomeration of fascist inclined folks began to link up and plan together for a resurgence of Nazism. Savitri Devi was at the center of it, as this paragraph from Hitler's priestess illustrates quote. She lost no time in contacting Andrew Fontaine, the president of the BNP. A spring camp attended by 20 delegates from European nationalist groups was held on Fontaines estate at Norford at Norford, Norfolk, in May of 1961. Those present included Robert Lyon, a young leader in the American National States Rights Party, which violently opposed to segregation in the South, representatives from German neo-Nazi groups and Savitri Devi, another key figure, was ex s s Lieutenant Friedrich Borth. Born in 1928, this blue-eyed, blonde Austrian Nazi had served in the Luftwaffe. Kind of off and S as a teenage officer, he had commanded an assault group and won the Iron Cross. After serving A3 year jail sentence in post War Vienna, he published an S veteran magazine, Thus Kamarad, which was swiftly suppressed by the Soviet authorities. Thereafter, he was connected with numerous extreme right wing groups and attended the most international fascist gatherings. He led the boom Hammer toured Jugend until it's banning in 1959, and then bring the Legion Europa, the Austrian section of their arts Geo New Europe, another international grouping inspired by the French OS and Algeria. And Belgian rancor over the loss of the Congo. After a busy schedule of lectures at norford, the participants celebrated their Nordic racial identity with folkish songs and tankards of traditional ale around the campfire. So you see what's happening here. Savitri Devi gets pulled into not just neo-Nazi new groups and not just old Nazis. She's meeting with the American States Rights Party. She's meeting with, like, these Belgians who are angry that they've lost control of the Congo. And she's meeting with all these old Neo Nazis and the British National Party and stuff, would you say? At this point, she is out of her depth in terms of, I can't believe you did that. No, no, I did. No, no, no. I think she's. You're saying you didn't like what you did. No, no, she's not out of her depth at all. She is. What she is doing is helping to draw. She's not the only force doing this, but she's helping to draw these groups together by providing the early like, these are all separate groups, like the cause of desegregation, like a lot of racists who don't want America desegregated, fought against the Nazis. She is a part of all these different, like, very far right groups, including Nazis coming together and in a lot of cases starting to embrace these weird, this weird Nazi religion she's she's invented as something to unify all of them. That's what starts to happen in this. And that's what's really unique about this. Is like, these are all groups like the Belgian, like Pro Congolese control of like the Belgium, like the Belgians weren't pro Nazi, but like these Belgians start to get pro. Nazi now because, like, they realize there's like this white identity thing, but also this, this weird religion that is more attractive to them than actual national socialism would have been. It's interesting. I mean, it seems like part of her effectiveness lies in like having so many little bits of things for people to latch on to so that even if you don't agree with the larger ideology, there's a worm on a hook that'll get you in. That's called syncretism. That's what syncretism really is. It's like all these different things, kind of. It's like a katamari of ideology with like naziism at the core, but all these things sticking to it, and these things get other people stuck to them. So, like, yeah, that's what we start to see happening in the early 1960s. In 1962, Savitri was in England again for a gathering of worldwide Nazis that included ******* Pod main character George Lincoln Rockwell. Ohh, I know this name. Founder of the American. That's how you know it's really bad. That's like anything GLR is things are about to get way. Yeah, word not great. OK, savitri? Ivy was one of the signatories for the World Union of National Socialists and proposed organization to form a quote combat efficient international apparatus to facilitate a return to Nazi values and the extermination of nonwhites from Western nations. Now, ones wound up being a bust for several reasons, including the fact that Rockwell was almost immediately kicked out of the United Kingdom, but he and Savitri developed a friendly relationship. The leader of the American Nazi Party had been on the lookout for a new American fascist religion. Something esoteric and enchanting that he could use to draw in new members in a way that national socialist political theory and unvarnished racism just did not, and he must have thought the lightning and the sun had some potential for he published an abridged version of the book in the National Socialist World Magazine. The Lightning and the sun made it over to the US. The Lightning in the sun, it should be said, could be a YA book that, like, is out right now. It might be to be entirely honest, and that why a book might. Actually, be Nazi propaganda hidden as young adult, which, oh, you can't put it past. Yeah, yeah, no, no, no. Much like. For example, the band Ace of base. Wait, what? Yeah, they used the base were Nazis. Did you not hear that? No. Oh, Adam. Todd Brown wrote a great article about this for crack. The base of Aces was a Nazi submarine base. If you watch the music video, for all that she wants is another baby. The woman who just wants another baby to get on welfare is like holding a Star of David the entire time. And there's all these long, lingering shots of it. There's a bunch of other stuff. The sign that they saw is clearly a swastika. If you listen to the lyrics, it's ****** **. Wow. But we have to blaze past that right now. I found, I found a book called Lightning on the Sun. That's a pretty close. That's probably Nazi ****. It's about a guy named Glenn Miller. The store? Yeah, Glenn schmeidler. Who? Yeah, might be matsy a moon God. Yep, that's some Nazi ****. There it is. Or anti Nazi since Nazi Savitri was all about the sun God. It could be either. Really. Hmm. So Savitri Devi would go on to spend the bulk of her remaining years in India, traveling irregularly when the demands of her national socialist beliefs took her around the world. She remained convinced all her life that Hitler would return, either in a new incarnation or after revealing that he had somehow survived the war and lead a resurgent Nazism to global victory. She retired in 1970. Living. For a time, at the home of her friend Foreman who created the line. Yeah, maybe granddaughter. Ohh good. She was a big Nazi backer before the war. Yeah. Wow. OK, learning more. She I love fashion knowledge. Savitri Devi was kicked out of Diora's house eventually for her twin habits of refusing to bathe ever and chewing on garlic constantly. Can we disgusting? Come on, girl. OK, that's what gets the reaction. Sophie is she's terrible. Not really. I was chewing on garlic a lot over the summer. It helps preserve your voice. I don't think that's why she was doing it, does she? Do you have to bathe while chewing on garlic? Do we? Do we know what happened to her cats? Oh, solid question, Jamie. Well, she had numerous pet cat. What happened to those 20 cats that she left she go to Nazi Germany with? She. I was just about to say she spent most of her remaining years living alone in India with dozens, sometimes of pet cats and at least one cobra. She always had a ******** of cats. Yeah, this woman. Couldn't get away from her cats. But one thing about her that you would think that cats live long enough that the original 20 cats she left behind would still be alive. But then I think a lot of them were. I think a lot of them were. Ohh, she she was taking them with I I don't know precisely, but my assumption based on everything I know Savitri Devi is that she would have absolutely tried to get back her original cats if it was possible. She was very into cats. Yeah, OK. She would not have abandoned the cats. I don't think she was. She was real consistent about that part. Yeah. As she grew older, Debbie became more and more convinced that the United States represented the most fertile ground for the growth of the esoteric Nazi religions he had spent her life helping to construct. In 1982, she decided to travel to the United States to do what she could do to help American Nazism break out as a national force. She died on the way, while staying at a friend's house in Great Britain. Her ashes, however, finally made it across the pond to the United States of America, and American Nazis laid her to rest by sprinkling her on their heroes. Brave George Lincoln Rockwell. So Rockwell and Savitri Devi share a grave. Yeah. Wow. OK, so she's like, OK, yeah. You know who doesn't share a grave? With George Lincoln? Rockwell and Savitri Devi? The products and services were about to hawk. Yes, for now. You never know. For now. For now. Mint Mobile offers premium wireless starting at just 15 bucks a month. And now for the plot twist. Nope, there isn't one. Mint Mobile just has premium wireless from 15 bucks a month. There's no trapping you into a two year contract. You're opening the bill to find all these nuts fees. There's no luring you in with free subscriptions or streaming services that you'll forget to cancel and then be charged full price for. None of that. For anyone who hates their phone Bill, Mint Mobile offers premium wireless for just $15.00 a month. Will give you the best rate whether you're buying one or for a family, and it meant family start at 2 lines. All plans come with unlimited talk and text, plus high speed data delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. 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The story of abomination and conspiracy that led to the demise of the entire institution of Belgian federal police and rattled the foundations of its government. Story about the man who simply become known as La Monster. Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We're back. We're back. So Savitri Devi's dead guy anally. But this is not the end for her. Not really, because starting in the late 1970s, a famous Holocaust denier and publisher, Ernst Zundel, had found her old work and started pushing it back into circulation. Now, it had only developed a limited audience in those early post war days, but now, nearly 20 years later, people were ready for esoteric Hitlerism. The book Hitler's priestess notes by the late 1970s, the historical experience of the Third Reich was quickly receding into the past. As popular literature and films ably demonstrated, Nazism was becoming something mythical, even fantastic, and also plastic that could be molded and combined with novel associations like an 80s lyrics. By publishing the work of Savitri Devi, Zondo go aimed to create a new cultic interest in Hitler, linking him to ancient mysteries, the world of nature and powerful religious symbols. Gone from the Orient. See, she was just saying there. By saying it's plastic, he's pointing out we have all these weird Movies Now about, like, Nazis on the moon. You know, you've got these fanciful stories like Wolfenstein, these games about, like, Nazi, like, all of this, this, this fictional sort of world that's been built up like mythology, built up around the Nazis, usually not by people who are actual Nazis in a lot of cases, just by people who are like, well, they're the worst people ever, so I can make them the bad guys. That's an easy go for a bad guy. Sure. But Zindel is like, this is a ******* opportunity, because kids are growing up reading about these cool, evil, bad guy Nazis. And for the same reason that kids love dressing up as Imperial Stormtroopers from Star Wars. Kids get interested in the Nazis from this, and he sees Savitri Devi's work is like, I can ******* get a **** load of kids interested in Nazism by pushing this stuff back out there. And he's ******* right. Yeah, now, yeah, yeah, another important architect of this. The whole thing, and we're not going to get into enough, but I will do an episode on the future, is a Chilean Nazi named Miguel Serrano, and it's from Miguel that we actually get the term esoteric Hitlerism. Serrano and Devi seemed to have reached essentially the same conclusion about Hitler as an avatar of Vishnu through slightly different intellectual roots. Miguel was a student of young and a mithraism, which we just don't have enough time to get into, and a member of the once again, the Theosophical Society. He was also an early avid western practitioner of yoga. Miguel corresponded with Devi during her lifetime. Before he died in 2009, he gave interviews to Nazi magazines with names like Black Sun, where he said this about Savitri Devi. Quote Savitri Devi is the greatest warrior after Adolf Hitler, Rudolf Hess and Joseph gerbils. Moreover, she was the first to discover the ancient and spiritual power behind Hitlerism. She envisioned a new religion and inaugurated a sanctuary for Hitler. In India. She was. Because I myself am anti Christian, she initiated completely on her own all that I have developed up until now. It is not mere coincidence that the Spanish Catholics published an attack against Savitri, Devi, Otto, Ron and me. It was very late in her life when we started to write each other. We just missed each other in Europe by one week. I arrived a few days after her death. I think that Savitri Devi will be the greatest sister of all the priests of Esoteric Hitlerism, the priests of Wotan. And he's like wearing a male feminist T-shirt while he does this, he's like, I don't hate women. I like this. I like the worst woman I've ever heard of love. He would not have won him. I will say that much. But you're getting the spirit of the guy, right? Yeah. He's a real gigantic ***** ** ****. We're not getting into it up, but he gives her credit as like the real motive force behind the religion that Hitlerism becomes, even though he's also, like kind of independently coming to a lot of the same conclusions and even earlier in some cases, like, she's the popularizer. In a lot of ways, she's a big role in that. And yeah, he's we'll talk about him more later today. Savitri Devi's fingerprints can be found all over the radical and murderous chunks of the fascist right the Flair Creek Division, an accelerationist neo-Nazi organization that's very similar to Atomwaffen Division, similar enough to talk about for the purposes of this podcast. Both of them seek to bring about the violent destruction of the current world order through destabilizing attacks. The Foyer Creek Division directly cites Devi as an inspiration. The group's gab bio includes this devie quote. Creation and destruction are one to the eyes of one who can see beauty. Savitri's beliefs went on to have a big influence on Atomwaffen too. And the members of the base who weren't FBI agents, anti fascists or journalists, which is basically the seven guys who got arrested, just say that's a familiar yeah, yeah, I know these groups like the base that we can see some hint of what makes Savitri Devi so dangerous. The leader of the Michigan Cell of Atomwaffen Division, who was doxed a few days before I wrote this episode, reached his position in charge of the Michigan cell. When he was 15 years old, the three members of the base who were arrested in Georgia and the process of trying to spark a race war were ages 1921 and 25, respectively. These accelerationist esoteric Hitlerism lists tend to be young, and there is disagreement on the average age at which people enter cults. But the work of Doctor John G Clark, a psych professor at Harvard who surveyed 500 current and former cult members, suggests an average age of 19 1/2 for new cult. Members he also points out that most new cult members are male. This is because young men are particularly vulnerable to being enraptured by ideologies that offer them a sense of purpose and belonging. It's one of the reasons the same age group is the ideal recruitment population for soldiers. But esoteric Hitlerism doesn't just suck these kids in because they're young. And to explain this new part, I'm going to have to talk a little bit about catechism. And I am very sorry. No. Do we do we have, do we? Absolutely. Is it? Absolutely, yeah, we we really do. Started out as a joking parody of religion, invented by the shitposters of 4 Chan and eight Chan during Gamergate. It's very dumb, and talking about it makes me feel very silly, but the short of it is Techism started out and for probably most, hacked on the real world. Some particularly unhinged Anon started to take Keck as a more seriously, while others just thought the joke kept getting funnier and spread it around. For that reason, Lawrence Murray, a writer for the Fascist podcast The Right stuff, was probably the first person to purposefully meld. Techism with Savitri Devi's philosophy into something he called Esoteric Catechism. He started ******** out memes that replaced Hitler with Pepe as an avatar of Vishnu. Stuff like that. It's very dumb. When interviewed, Murray claims he was only half joking with the whole idea. But like any joke of the sort on the Internet, it spread like wildfire and a certain chunk of the people who saw it took it seriously. Which led them to the work of more serious fascist thinkers. People like Savitri, Devi and will lead some of them into accelerationist. Groups like Atomwaffen and the base. It is not a coincidence that Anders Brevik, the Utoya Norway shooter who massacred dozens of children at a left wing summer camp, directly praised Hindu nationalism in his manifesto. It is also not a total coincidence that both Anders Brevik and Brenton Tarrant, the Christchurch shooter, claimed to be Knights Templar members of a Christian order fighting against Muslims, basically. And it is not a coincidence that the Urban dictionary page for catechism written by a gamer gater. Describes it as a red pilled ideology originating from the True Knights Templar. And again, all of this is joking. All of this is not joking. It's both at once. It's the contradiction of modern *******. Yeah, well, that's yeah, the the the great the greatest trick the devil ever played was irony poisoning. Because you just can't. Yeah, you you can't argue with it. Yeah. Some people will say, and it's possible there is are some central figures behind this spread of syncretism, like sinister individuals who have like kind of put all this together purposefully, or at least put pieces of it together purposefully. Yeah, but I I tend to be of the belief that most, if not all of it is amorphous and acephalous. It happened without a head, without much intention on its own. There may have been bits of intention here and there, like esoteric catechism, but a lot of it just happened because of the sort of structures. Vitri Devi built it's just kind of the natural result of the amorphous and sticky nature of the faith that she created. If Hindu mythology and ancient Egyptian history can be folded in with Adolf Hitler and the Aryan myth, why can't techism wind up in there too, right? Can't the Knights Templar fit in there too? All these weird little subcultures you've got Norse mythology, Chan culture, gamer culture, New Age, spiritualism, environmentalism, even veganism. All these things appeal heavily to a lot of young people. And the more little bridges that you can build between these different communities and actual extermination is Nazi beliefs, the more young men will kind of accidentally fall in and get caught in this net. It's like a tunnel spiders web. And at the end, the great innovations of he treat every brought like that's that's the innovation she brought to Nazism. She took what was a dead political system that couldn't spread outside of Germany, not really, and turned it into a living syncretic religion, something with vitality. More than capable of mutating and absorbing and staying relevant and something capable of inspiring young men to commit murder. And the memory of Adolf Hitler nearly a century after his death. Could you give me that word one more time of of the, the syncretism, syncretism? Yeah. I mean, it's and and if you are able to, you know, find a way to get a group of people who are looking for something to believe in who are maybe a little bit OK, you know what? You're right. I was. But yeah, just like finding a group of vulnerable, vulnerable people ideologically that need something to believe in and put a delicious chocolate coating on the outside of it. It seems to. It works. It works, yeah. So how do you feel about Savitri Yifan? You got to check out our books. Can't say I'm. A fan, she I don't think that we would. I don't think we would have been friends in junior high, and I don't think we would have been friends now. I yeah. No, I mean I truly. And it is interesting that we don't talk about her. I had no idea this person existed. I. Why do you think that is agreed to? There's a degree to which I think a lot of people who know about her and are like, researchers didn't really want to because there's this worry about making a bigger deal of it than it is. Sure. It's kind of like, I didn't really write about 8 Chan much until the Christchurch shooting when it was like, OK, well now we gotta. It's too big to get into the base. Now it's gotten to this point. Like, alright, we gotta ******* talk about Savitri, Dev Devie and esoteric Hitlerism. Like, we got to get some of this out there. I do think it's also just like not super well known. I think she was seen like really, to be entirely honest, I think most of her efforts would have looked like a failure to most of observers, observers up until maybe at the earliest decade ago. OK you know, people who were really aware of what was going on would have known earlier, but most people, even pretty well informed people would have been like, well, this is kind of a dead end and just something to like make fun of up until we start to the the Internet. Really is what, what provides this with the last ingredient it needs to take off? Yeah, she, like, pioneered the red pill mentality. Like, it's yeah, she's a red pill pioneer. Part of that. Yeah, and we're not like Julius Evola is a big part of this who Steve Bannon ******* loves. There's a lot of Savitri Devi and Steve Bannon and credit from any of the red pill pioneers. Everyone deserves to take up space. We'll get them all. We'll get them all on the show. We will. We will. They deserve it. Hmm. Well, reserve it well, Robert. As usual, this was absolutely horrifying and you've ruined my day. Thank you. Good. Yeah, that's the goal. OK, good. Well, Anderson, here's to plug. Ohh Andy, I've got, I've got some plug cables to plug. You can listen to my podcast, my urine Mensa. It's online now. There's only four episodes. It's real quick. I'm on Twitter at Jamie Loftus, help Instagram at Jamie Carr, superstar on tour for the next month or so. Jamie Loftus is innocent.com. And that's what I have to say. I love when we talk about the worship in the entire world. And then at the end you're like, so what's your Twitter handle? This is normal. You were in the twits, yeah? If you really want to learn more about esoteric Hitlerism, follow Sophie's Twitter account. Why under score, Sophie? under score? Why Robert Lutely violent you cannot shut up. Make me fire you. No, I gosh, you know so much Hitler. You know what have been on Twitter for less than 48 hours already getting accused of crimes. Robert is going to be cancelled by the time this came out because he blew his nose on the mic no less than four times. That's absolutely 4 hours. I am. I am ill. I know, but you know, but I mean, now you're just now you're just bragging about it. Follow our podcast at Bassard Pot on Instagram. Don't tell her what to do. So sorry you're telling our listeners what to do. 456 get it together. I know I didn't sleep last night. And the episodes, nobody. I mean, you know what ends an episode? Well, I know we've had the Nazis. The first night does that. Does that excuse the nose blowing? My friend having trouble sleeping? Does it excuse the nose blowing? No, no, no, no, Robert. Sophie, Robert, that's gonna be OK, yes. It is not always getting mad. And the episode my friend and go take a nap. Yeah, the episode is over. Yeah, go hug a cat or dog. Cats. Can you stop Nazis hugging cat and encourage the angriest person you know to write fanfiction? That's truly the greatest service you can do. Both of those things are critical. All right. This is over. Bye bye. Hello, I'm Erica Kelly from the podcast Southern Fried True crime, and if you want to go from podcast fan to podcast host, do what I did and check out spreaker from iheart. I was working in accounting and hating it. Then after just 18 months of podcasting with Spreaker, I was able to quit my day job. Follow your podcasting dreams, let's break our handle the hosting creation distribution. And monetization of your podcast go to spreaker.com. That's spreaker.com. Hey, I don't know. Less. Listen to stuff you should know more. Join host Josh and Chuck on the podcast packed with fascinating discussions about science, history, pop culture, and more episodes. Dive into topics like was the lost, city of Atlantis Real? And how does pizza work? Say goodbye to I don't know. Because after listening to stuff you should know you will listen to stuff you should know on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey there, it's Ebony Monet, your co-host for the San Diego Zoo's Amazing Wildlife podcast. In this special episode, we're speaking with Doctor Jane Goodall about the fascinating journey that led to her impactful behavioral discoveries on chimpanzees. It wasn't until one of the chimpanzees began to lose his fear of me, but I began to really make discoveries that actually shook the scientific world. Listen to amazing wildlife on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.