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Hello, I'm Erica Kelly from the podcast Southern Fried True crime, and if you want to go from podcast fan to podcast host, do what I did and check out spreaker from iheart. I was working in accounting and hating it. Then after just 18 months of podcasting with Spreaker, I was able to quit my day job. Follow your podcasting dreams, let's break or handle the hosting, creation, distribution, and monetization of your podcast. Go to spreaker.com. That's spreaker.com. If you could completely remove one phrase from your vocabulary, which phrase would you choose? I don't know. Correct answer. No, I meant I don't know which phrase, and the best way to banish I don't know from your life is by cramming your brain full of stuff you should know. Join your host, Josh and Chuck on the Super Popular podcast packed with fascinating discussions on science, history, pop culture and more episodes that ask, was the lost city of Atlantis Real? I don't know. Is birth order important? I don't know. How does pizza work? Well, I do know. Bit about that see? You can know even more, because stuff you should know has over 1500 immensely interesting episodes for your brain to feast on. So what do you say? I don't want to miss the stuff you should know. Podcast you're learning already. Listen to stuff you should know on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey there, it's Ebony Monet, your Co host for the San Diego Zoo's Amazing Wildlife podcast, in this special episode. You're speaking with Doctor Jane Goodall about the fascinating journey that led to her social discoveries on chimpanzees. For four, oh, months, the chimps ran away from me. I mean, they take one look at this peculiar white ape and disappear into the vegetation. Listen to amazing wildlife on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. What's filling I Jesus, I don't know how to open this one. I was gonna make like a a claim about like is a joke about *** socks or something for the introduction coming two of our what's ejaculating in Massachusetts? Sophie, is that a good introduction? Not your best go not my best. Ohh, that was Jamie. I pulled back. What's what's squirting my *** socks way better. What? See Jamie, this was the introduction equivalent of that scene in Footloose where the two tractors are racing towards each other and then like 1 pulls away and I pulled away. I pulled away in the game of unfortunate come introduction based chicken and you did not. No, I refused to back down. And I think I'm reaping the rewards as we speak. So this is behind the ******** the podcast where our introductions are increasingly unhinged and inaccessible to new listeners. This is part two of our two-part episode on Arthur Desmond, author of Might is right, the book that inspired the Gilroy Garlic Festival shooting and a bunch of other stuff. I don't want to, like, spoil the end, but this is a lot of where the Church of Satan comes from, too, so. What's gonna be cool? Ohh yeah, baby. Yeah. We're building up through the whole first episode with that. OK, OK. Yeah, I'd buckle in. OK. Strap together. Belt down. Yeah, Yep, Yep. It back on. Tape it back on. Yeah. That's one way to say get it together, right. Throw a wrench at it. Yeah. All of those are synonyms for get your **** rolling wrench at it. All right, it's time for Part 2. Might is right. Was originally published. To the title the survival of the fittest, it first existed, as I stated as a 25 page pamphlet Desmond printed out while he lived in Sydney. It wasn't until 1896 that the full book was published, and the final edition of Desmond's life was published in around 1903. Under the title might is right, it's here. I should note that not everyone agrees about the purpose behind this book. While most folks seem to accept that Desmond meant everything he wrote, there's a sizable chunk of people who do think that this was a work of satire and that he was actually making fun of the kind of people that you and I find so frustrating. They'll argue that Desmond was actually a committed socialist to the death, and that might is right. Was basically him mocking the extremes of of the politics that he hated. Well, if so, irresponsible satirist. If so, nobody got the joke because everyone takes it seriously. Yeah, but also looking at home dudes life, there's a pretty natural evolution from like labor warrior to guy who just thinks that you should punch each other to determine who gets things. Yeah, I yeah, I don't. I mean, that's a very, that's a very forgiving. Interpretation. Yeah, yeah, that it. It is. And I think the people who consider it satire, I think in part they just don't want to believe that anyone could take this book seriously but spent a lot of time on the stupid parts of the Internet and people take way Dumber ****. Seriously. They're like, he's gotta be joking. There's no way. I I mean, I you do have to appreciate that he went back and he changed the title to something like punchier, too. Might is right. Yeah. He got notes. Yeah, exactly. They're like survival of the fittest, you know? It's kind of been done. Kind of been said. I'm gonna guess you, like, rolled down to the gym and was like, did anybody read my book? And there was just like, a guy punching it, being like, no, I don't read science books. And there was like, but what if it rhymed, right? What if it rhymed? He's opposed. He's a poet. And, you know, it's ****** poet. I wonder, does this, does his poetry get better or worse, do you think, as he slowly becomes a Nazi? I think Labour song, the poem that you liked with the kids getting eaten, the children think that's, yeah, the children's bones. I think that's his high point as a poet. Looking forward to future work. I'm about to read another poem. Well, it's not really a poem, it's just sort of like flowery language. I'm going to read how the the books introduction starts. In this arid wilderness of steel and stone, I raise up my voice that you may hear. To the east and to the West. I beckon. To the north and to the South I show a sign proclaiming death to the weakling, wealth to the strong. Open your eyes that you may hear. That doesn't make any sense. Ohh, men have no dude minds. And listen to me, Lee ye laborious millions, for I stand forth to challenge the wisdom of the world, to interrogate the laws of man and of God. A request reasons for your golden rule, and ask why and wherefore? If you're 10 commands before, none of your printed idols do I bend in acquiescence, and he who sayeth thou shalt to me is my mortal foe. I demand proof over all things, and except with reservations even that which is true, I dip my forefinger into the watery blood of your impotent mad Redeemer. Divine Democrat, your Hebrew madman. And right over his thorn torn brow, the true Prince of evil, the king of the slaves. No. Yeah, he's not. He's real anti Jesus and also anti-Semitic. And they are both, like, very much intertwined. I was like, there it goes and he's off. That is, we are off to the races. That is bad on so many levels. That was so. He's also obsessed with like, he's like, oh you thin blood. It. Like there's just all this weird coded language. For emasculation, you're like, how do you even think of that? It's like when you, like, go on an insult board and like, how how would you think to describe something like that? You're you're thinking about it too hard, my friend. Yeah, it's that like that. This is the problem, I think. Like back in the day, Desmond was the only guy thinking like this because he was the only one spending all this time alone in front of a piece of paper, writing out his crazy thoughts. But but now with the Internet, people like you have whole communities of people. Who are thinking along the same lines and they just dry because, like, Desmond would have looked at the stuff in cells right about how, like, Oh no, dude, you've got this classification of chin, and so you're gonna die alone because your chin is like an A3 and you gotta have an A6 or better chin in order to, like, get a girl. Desmond would look at that and like, what the **** is wrong with you people? But that's, you know, you can't have that without the Internet. This is as far into those territories as you got back. I say you leave him on those boards for a couple weeks. He would start to see. He would start to see. He might, the darkness he might. You do get that feeling from him that if he'd had the Internet he would have been pretty ******** Elliot Rodger. It does seem like every time he has, like a lost year or two, he pivots intensely. Yeah, yeah, and I suspect he's spending a lot of alone time in those years. Well, he's not good for you. Not ******* that I can say. Pretty seriously. Absolutely not ******* Arthur Desmond did not **** and rightfully so. Except for his pillow user. Yeah, sorry. No, we're very glad that he did not **** much. Yeah, for the better. For the betterment of everyone. Now the anti-Semitism is really stark like to us because we come from a somewhat saner time where that's less common. But in an era where that was more common, you can kind of see how the language and theme would be compelling to a lot of people. In an era with a stricter social hierarchy and strong ideas of the place of religion, the family, the social order. This like this is a time like the early 1900s when a lot of philosophies based on tearing it all down are gaining an ascendancy, not just sort of like different strains of anarchism, but like that's what socialism is about. And that's kind of like. Schism comes from too, so you can see where why this would be compelling to a lot of people. Yes, yeah, now. All that, said, like as much ******** as they're in there. There are like pieces of of of stuff in here that like I find compelling or at least that I think I in an earlier Dumber stage of my development. I would have found compelling like there's stuff in here. That's tailor made to like latch onto the brains of 18 year old kind of narcissistic kids who are like starting to read books. That are like outside of the mainstream. Yeah. The college freshman and this is this is where we're building exactly. There's stuff in here that's made for that and I'm going to read one of those quotes now that like you can see why you can you can imagine the kind of person that this this is electric to. OK. In the nursery at school and at college plastic brain pulp is deliberately forced into the pre arranged mold. Everything that a corrupt civilization can do is done to compress the growing intellect into a natural channels. Thus the great mass of men who inhabit the world of today have no initiative. Though originality or independence of thought, but are mere subjective individualities who have never had the slightest voice in fashioning the ideals they formally Revere. So that's like, yeah, it's just like a adult. Like your parents are stupid, your parents are so dumb. Societies. ******** man, if I have to. Yeah. It sounds like it sounds like, like serious Gen X ideology of like, you know, your parents who loved you. ****. Oh yeah. Love it. **** em. **** him. Those IKEA shoppers may. Yeah. Yeah. And there's Desmond's a weird writer. Like, there's single lines in here that are actually, like, really good lines, good turns of phrase and then like, you know, Yoho ********. Like it? He's he's weird. Like, it's if he'd had an editor. He's a bad writer. He's a bad writer with snatches of, like, really good turns of phrase. So I'm gonna read a paragraph that's complete nonsense and then ends on what I consider to be a pretty fun line. OK? Mankind is a weary, a weary of its sham profits. It's demagogues and its statesman. It crieth out for kings and heroes. It demands an ability, an ability that cannot be hired with money, like slaves or beasts of burden. The world awaits the coming of mighty men of valour, great destroyers, destroyers of all that is vile angels of death. We are sick unto nausea of the good Lord Jesus, terror stricken under that. Executive of priest Mob and pro console. We are tired to death of equality. Gods are at a discount. Devils are in demand. It's fun. Last line, OK. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But like it's he never had an editor and so he didn't. He's. Yeah. Yeah. But that is something in order to have an editor, you do have to have a friend. And it seems like he never had a friend. I know he actually did have an editor, but I don't know what the ******* guy was doing. Right. Because because there's a lot of nonsense and you can see like again, when I'm talking about how there's like all sorts of **** in here that's like proto, the stuff that people say online now we're tired to death of equality. Like that's a major through line in the book. Just like the evils of equality and yeah, yeah, because yeah, well, Desmond's a big like the the democracies ********. Like, all of our our societal notions of, like, the the inherent equality of mankind is ********. Like, women's rights are ********. The only thing that matters is, like, who can beat up everybody else? Well, yeah, like that's his philosophy. It's frustrating. Yeah, that is like big. Like College college freshman. Like male college freshman. Energy where it's like if I only was. I just need to get stronger. I'll fix the world by being very strong. And I get, I guess, like the, the, the point I'm making with the Umm, he has odd single lines here that are like, catchy. Is that like it's he's a writer who's writing is made to be like have quotes pulled out and tattooed on the arms of guys at the gym. Like that's that's that's the kind of writer he is. Like you can see why individual bits of this would like stick out to people reading it, which is where we're building with the yeah, exactly. That's what he's good at. And he also repeats himself constantly. Every chapter, he repeats every single point that he makes in the entire book, which makes it a slog to read. But if you're not good at reading, it makes it really easy to get the point driven home to you because you only have to read one chapter of this book to kind of get where it's all going. It's like the secret. Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, I'm gonna read another quote. This one could have come from a poorly mimeographed sovereign citizen pamphlet in the mid 1990s. And as again, like, there's just so much here that seems like directly. Influenced the modern far right, the free man is Born Free, lives free, and dies free. He is, even though, living in an artificial civilization, above all laws, all constitutions, all theories of right and wrong. He supports and defends them, of course, as long as they suit his own end. But if they don't, then he annihilates them by the easiest and most direct method. And you can't be tried under a flag with a fringe. That means it's a flag of Admiralty there. Yes, this was this written in all caps. This sounds like I he, he he writes like I've got. I've got a lot of gun shows in my day and there's a lot of poorly, like, xeroxed pamphlets in them. Like Arthur Desmond reads. Like every one of those pamphlets. Ohh my. Like, there will be 1 poll quote on the front and you're like, OK, what's going on here? And then it's just like ******* nonsense. Yeah, just, yeah. Everything he writes just seems like a him problem. It just reeks of a personal issue with something. That yeah, yeah. He's a he's a bitter, angry guy and and that that comes across really ******* clear and he's like, and I refuse to work on my personality. No, no, no, no, no. He. The world needs to accept his personality, which is that the government should be based on who can punch best God, so many. Yeah. So many people have done like so many men have done damage based on wanting to the world to bend to their ****** personality instead of yeah, Arthur Desmond is like the ******* archetype of that. Although there's also like, there's an there's an angle of it. That's kind of sad too, because you can see like you we we covered how he started out as this like very Pro labour guy. It was like kind of desperately trying to get the working class to, like, recognize how ****** over it was being by the system they lived under. Umm. And he's completely abandoned that now. And you can taste the bitterness over that fact in this book, right? I mean, but that's just like a that feels like a lack of commitment to the cause and just being like, I wanted to get all the credit and no one cheered. Sure, there were tons, tons of people who did not give up and who actually made, like, significant social strides and stuff. Yeah, Desmond, just like I said, he didn't have patience. Like, you know, when he started his political career, there was a point at which he probably could have made himself a career as a politician, gotten into Parliament, but like, after the second election, didn't quite go his way. He was just like, **** it. I'm gonna write a legal newspapers. Yeah, which you know I like. Illegal newspapers. Legal newspaper. We can't get involved in the same community. Yeah. Quote, the common people have always had to be befouled with some written or wooden or golden idol, some Constitution declaration or gospel. Consequently, the majority of them have ever been mental thralls, living and dying in an atmosphere of strong illusion. They are befouled and hypnotized even to this hour, and a large proportion of them must remain so until time is no more. Indeed, the masses of mankind are but the sediment from which all the more valuable elements have been long ago. Instilled they are totally incapable of real freedom, and if it were granted to them, they would straight away vote themselves a master or 1000 masters within 24 hours. Mastership is right, mastership is natural. Mastership is eternal, but only for those who cannot overthrow it and trample it beneath their hooves. So yeah, that's where he's wound up. Yeah, OK. I hate him. I hate him. Yeah. God uses the word eunuch a lot in this, too. He's you. He's been using the word eunuch a lot the whole time. Yeah. That he starts using that mainly to refer to Christianity. So, like, it'll be he'll he'll focus on like, like, like it's Hebrew and it's like eunuch. And it's like, yeah, he thinks it's dickless. That's his number one insult. Yeah. Yeah. Now I know what you're wondering, Jamie. Is this book racist as ****? And. Yes. Yeah, it's it. It is absolutely racist as ****. OK, are all men really brethren ***** and Indian black fellow Cal milk? I don't even know what a cow muck is. And Cooley, the well born in the base spread the beer soaked loafer and the hero hearted Patriot, belted Chieftain and ignoble mechanic slave pot of iron and pot of clay. That's a sentence like that's a ******* that's a single. She wrote that down, Robert. He wrote that down and was like, people have to shade this, people have to know. I had to read this. No one else has to read this. No, please don't read this. There's no need to read it. And then and then going. I mean, it's like if you think that that is the content of it. And then you read the marketing for how important he clearly thought the book was. Yeah. But no one's ever had these thoughts before. Yeah. Yeah. My cool idea. Racism. I've had so many ******* Fight Club posters up in his bedroom, right next to the pile of socks as stiff as particle boards, petrified socks, and a million snake flags. I just yeah, yeah, now might is right is, on balance, extremely repetitive. Desmond does attempt to cite history and science in his arguments, but he never goes into any meaningful detail because he clearly only has a shallow understanding for anything that he references. Cool. One good example is this. Mine the big fish, eat the little fish the big trees by absorbing and monopolizing the nutriment eat up the little trees, the strong animals eat the weak animals and so on. And it ad infinitum which. It's not how forest work. It's not entirely how fish work, even or or even animals. Like, yeah, it's it's just. But he says it was such all caps confidence that you're like, does he know something I don't? And then it's like, no, he's gaslighting you. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, some of them may just have been honest ignorance about the way forests work. Of course the big trees are eating the little trees. That's how it works. Isn't it crazy how like, yeah, you're just like, oh, he's gaslighting me. You're like, no, he's not even that smart. You can't. He's not even that. I don't understand. He just like, looked at a big tree next to a little tree and was like, well, that big ones eating the little one. I got to write a book about this **** clearly. ***** ** ****. All right, now I'm going to guess it didn't surprise you that he was racist. Will it surprise you to learn that he's very pro cannibalism? Yes. He's he's super pro cannibalism. This is the most pro cannibalism book I've read. No, I didn't run into a poem intentionally not like figure speech cannibalism. Like, let's no literal. Like, he talks about cannibalism for pages and he never says like it's good to eat people, but like, he clearly admires cannibalism, thinks that it's like it a lot like, like, I just read how racist it is. Like there's a bunch of lines about how like black and white people clearly aren't like like equal and stuff. The one time he talks about a non white. Group of people positively. He's talking about New Zealand aboriginals and cannibalism. Like that's his one. Like Wokest passages being like, these guys eat people and that's cool as hell and that's ******* metal. He just sounds like a misguided, like right wing metal music. Ohh God yeah, he's a big cannibalism fan and he's clearly do. We know why he chose to publish this under a pseudonym other than it's absolutely full of. Yeah, but it doesn't seem like he thinks that. So why isn't he willing to put his name on it? You know, he had a bunch of pseudonyms throughout his life, I think because he was a criminal. Yeah. He was constantly committing crimes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. OK. OK. Just curious. Yeah. Yeah. So like, again, cannibalism. Cannibalism. Yeah. He describes them as very intelligent New Zealand Aboriginals when he talks about like, their cannibalistic traditions because and that's the only positive reference to a non white group of people in the book is like, these guys eat people and that's sick. ****. Yo. Yeah, I'm like, this is a very, like, hot topic analysis. Like of of cannibalism. He is. Sound so uncool there can't? Yeah. I mean, I it sounds like a terrible book, but at least there's twists. I appreciate heat. He stands. Cannibalism. Stand. Ballism. Animalism. God. OK, please don't make that T-shirt. Please don't. It's already a shirt. I refuse. Too bad. Arthur Desmond's attitude towards women is another area where his writing seems virtually identical to angry posts on 4 Chan or Reddit. Yeah, so I'm going to read a little bit of that now. Jamie. OK, hit it. A man's family is his property. It is part of himself. Therefore, his natural business is to defend it as he would his own life. Women and children belong to man who must hunt for them as well As for himself. He is their Lord and master in theory and in fact. Hmm. Yeah, well, I agree with all of that. So I don't really know why you were trying to set me off, because I agree with it. I think it's right. Well, let's see how you let's see how you feel about this next part. Yeah? What? Women are frail beings at the best of times and in their secret hearts are probably lovers of the unlimited. For the welfare of the breed and the security of dissent they must be held in through subjection. Man has captured them, and besides providing for and protecting them, it is necessary to keep them on the chain, as it were. Woe to him, woe unto them, and woe unto our race, if ever these lovable creatures should break loose from mastership and become rulers or equals of man. But that is impossible, he adds. And parentheses? Yeah, I don't. From the early, I don't either. Talking about women like they're mog wise and so, yeah, icky. From the earliest ages, man has captured his wife by force or stratagem, and to this day he does the same marriage ceremonies symbolize his proprietorship. His capture, the marriage ring, is 1 link of a chain, emblematic of the fact that the prehistoric bridegroom chained his beloved one in a cave so she became tame, tractable, and reciprocating. I don't know where he came up with that. Yeah. Brutal. Yeah. OK. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You you would not be wrong to see Ragnar Redbeard as the prototype of the men's rights activist or the in cell movement. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I suspect that today he'd be at the very least, a very successful grifter in that world. Yeah. For example, near the end of the book is this chapter subtitle, manhood is demonized. It complains all caps. King. It is actually all caps. Yeah. Oh, good. Yeah. It's literally. All caps. Manhood is demonized. And again, this is like the late 1800s, early 1900s it is. So no, but it's also like 2018 in a way. Yeah, it's very much both of those things. So we're going to talk, Jamie, about how manhood is demonized, but first, you know what's not demonized? Capitalism. Yeah, you do it at Pug, yes. Mint Mobile offers premium wireless starting at just 15 bucks a month. And now for the plot twist. Nope, there isn't one. Mint Mobile just has premium wireless from 15 bucks a month. There's no trapping you into a two year contract. 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So by now we imagine that you've seen the theories on Tik T.O.K. You maybe even heard the rumors, your friends and loved ones. But are any of the stories about government conspiracies and cover ups actually true? The answer is surprisingly or unsurprisingly, yes. For more than a decade, we here at stuff they don't want you to know have been seeking answers to these questions. Sometimes there are answers that people would rather us not explore. Now we're sharing this research with you. For the first time ever in a book format, you can preorder stuff they don't want you to know. Now it's the new book from us, the creators of the podcast and video series. You can turn back now or read the stuff they don't want you to know. Available for pre-order now, it's stuff you should read books.com or wherever you find your favorite books. My name is Erica Kelly and I am the host and creator of Southern Freight true crime. There are so many people that just have no idea about some injustices in the world, and if you can give a voice to them, you can create change. To be able to do it within podcasting is just such a gift. I believe it was 18 months after I got on with Spreaker that I was making enough that I could quit my day job. It was incredible. I always felt like an ambassador for speaker, but that's because I'm passionate about podcasting. It's really easy to use. I always tell people I am so not tech. Took me 5 minutes to get comfortable with speaker, and when I find a new friend that has an incredible show, I want them to make money. I want them to be able to do what I did. Follow your podcasting dreams. Let's break your handle the hosting, creation, distribution, and monetization of your podcast. Go to spreaker.com. That's spreaker.com. Get paid to talk about the things you love with spreaker from iheart. We're back. We're back. We're talking about how manhood is demonized. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think that. I mean, isn't it, Robert? Wouldn't you agree? Haven't you been on the boards? It's a pretty hot topic of discussion. I it's it's all I can do to. I don't know what's the stereotypical thing. I feel truly like manhood is demonized in all caps. Sounds like a Reddit post I saw this week. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, literally. I've read variants of that exact sentence 1000 times over the last couple of years. OK, generally while someone on Facebook was trying to sell me like leather goods and axes and **** because manhood has been very successfully capitalized, which there's a funny bit to that here. So I'm going to read a quote from that chapter on manhood is demonized. We are living and dying, mostly dying in a poisonous environment of deep seated moral dementia, social disease, and political illusions. The righteous and the just. Hypocrites. Deceivers, enemies of all that is noble, courageous and manly, destroyers of self assertiveness, annihilators of heroism. Would that I had a legion of demons to ring neck. A crucified Jew slave terrorized under authority is set up as a God, a standard of measurement for all mankind. That is why personal valor and nobility of thought are at such a tremendous discount. Christendom is *******. Manhood is demonetized. Our waste is betrayed. Yeah, I think he was trying to say like demonetized, like made into a demon, but it's spelled demonetized. Which yeah like he's PewDiePie manhood is demonetized. Yeah no man you can it's monetized very well God ever since yeah this is OK. So manhood is demonetized. I would I would just demonetized I would wear that shirt I now what a piece of work you would. I would yeah yeah 100% yeah. No, Jamie, I bet at this point I know what you're wondering. How would Arthur Desmond? How? Yes, how? How would Arthur Desmond scientifically define a female? Ohh yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I really did get, like, a weird feeling in my stomach when you said that. Ohh, yeah. Because female, they're. Yeah. I mean he. Yeah. It's gross. OK, OK. A woman is primarily a reproductive cell Organism, a womb, structurally and bastioned by a protective defensive osseous network surrounded with the antennae and blood vessels necessary for supplying nutriment to the growing ovum or embryo. That's a woman. It sounds like a ******* creature from the Black Lagoon. What is he? Ohh, you're just a womb with bones? You're just a meat prison. That's supposed to make me a child? Yield me an air. But he that is all. What a loser. What a loser. This I like. If he had a counselor or if he had somewhere to express himself, yeah, maybe. But he did, actually. I think him having a place to Express Express himself was the problem. Well, I think that he he shouldn't. He certainly shouldn't have had a platform, Robert. I think he should. Oh my. Deep, hashtag, deep platform health. Arthur Desmond did. He did. Yeah, deep stroke. Did that a while back, thankfully so. Wait, he said. He said women have antenna. Yeah. Where did he specify where they got him? Because, Nope. But you have antenna and blood vessels to supply nutriment to your growing ovum. So Congrats on that. I bet you're happy to learn that my ovum stays growing. So maybe that's maybe it's the antenna. You got to check those antenna. Yep. So. Oh, what a dork. Wow, what a dork. Pathetic now. The more you read might is right, the more convinced you become that, among other things, Arthur Desmond was the founding father of all in cells, and this quote, I think, embodies that more than any other strap in, OK, sexualism and maternity dominate the lives of all true women to such an extent. Is this so that they have very little time left or inclination to think, and therefore they've never been fitted out AB inito with reasoning organs? Probably this is what Muhammed alluded to when he sententiously affirmed that women have no soul. Even in man, the soul is probably a fiction, but in woman it's absence is an absolute certainty. Stuck on reasoning, Organism, reasoning organs? Yeah, that's so nasty. I I just love that he's both like such an like atheist bro that he's gotta be like nobody has a soul, but also like women for sure don't have souls. Because I like. And again, it it is like that trend that he has of just like, you're like, oh, this could be something horrible or he might just really not know what he's talking about. Or he's like, you know, when you're just eating a baby, you really got to focus and give it your full attention. Or it's like, like you're just sitting on an egg for for nine months. You can't move, you can't do anything, much less use your reasoning organisms or grapple with your soul because you don't have 10, Lord. Well, Jamie, yes, I'm sorry. I was my reasoning order Organism is just overextended right now. Keep reasoning with those organs. Yeah, well, I mean, I can't, or my ovum will stop growing if it's the classic. That's the classic contradiction of womanhood, right? Flex my reasoning Organism too hard, my antenna will stop working, in my opinion. Don't you understand? I do now. Now that I've read might is right and that's the last normal quote from the book we're going to read. I do have one last piece of mind is right to read. And it's a poem. Go for it. No. From Sandy Hook to London Tower, from Jaffa to Japan they can take who half the power they may keep who can. This is the law of heaven and hell, stupendous and divine. The highest, holiest law of all that governs mine and thine. The law. It is of sun and star, of president and Pope. It is the prisoner at the bar, the gallows and the rope. It is the lawyer and his fee, the Shearer and his sheep, the eagle, soaring Swift and three. The dreadnought on the deep. It is the bond that is the loan. The Prophet and the lost the user are on his bullion throne, the idol. Of the cross it is the goth, it is the Hun, the tyrant and his prey, the Flamin, Sabre club and gun, oh taxes that we pay. It is the law of all the climes and all the things to be, and all the bold, tremendous times that you and I shall see. From Sandy Hook to London Tower, from Greenland to Japan, they will take who have the power. And I think I cut off the last lines were to say that that's a very jarring place to end it. Yeah. It ends with the word can, I'm sure. Can't. Yeah. Well, I mean, you don't know. His poetry is so good and deft and unpredictable. Where is it going? That sounds like a ****** Black Sabbath song. He should have kept writing labor poems about kids bones being crushed, though. That that was. Yeah, because it really. That's his high point. Yeah. Yeah. When he was when. And that was also like kind of his high point ideologically, too. Yes, it was. Yeah. Good. OK, so, so he's a bad poet again. I am also interested in the arc of his poetry because it's really, it's a parabola. Yeah, he's bad, but we also know he's a plagiarist. So we may my, my, my thing is maybe he didn't write the one good poem. He just beat some guy up and stole his poem. That's entirely possible. Might is right. So, yeah, good. That is. That is how poetry works. He's got, I mean, the untellable damage that's been done to the world over. Like ****** artists that that just really couldn't get it. It's just like, uh, just get a little part of it. That's like the best argument you can make for like, the the ******* uh, whatchamacallit, the universal basic income is like, then all the terrible artists in the world can make terrible art and not turn into Hitler and not yet become so deeply politicized. Or yeah, or George Bush for that matter. Yeah, yeah, if they if they both just lived in small apartments. Painted. We'd all be better off, right? It's like, yeah, no one's gonna buy it, but they're not gonna die. It'll be fine. Yeah. Yeah. If Arthur Desmond had just had a government department, he would have kept writing poems. Some of them would have been good. Some of them would have been terrible. He would have published ****** scenes for the rest of his life. And no, I mean he. This are. You could argue that might is right. Is kind of a ****** scene. Yeah, but it has way more impact than that. Like, it's it's we're we're we're about to get into how this spread outside of the ****** Zine community of the the 1890s and early 1900s. OK, but first let's talk about the rest of Arthur Desmond's Life OK? Now, once he made it to the United States, he appears initially and like registers in the City of Chicago as a reporter. He also started going by the name Ragnar Redbeard professionally at this point, writing one friend that he had taken on the new name just for luck. After Mike's right was published and started to gain serious prominence as a work of radical politics, Desmond seems to have found himself in possession of a decent amount of funding. He created the Adolf Mueller Company in 1897 for the sole purpose of selling Ragnar Redbeard books and pamphlets. I'm going to guess Adolf Mueller was another one of his aliases. Yeah, now most of these seem to have just been reprints of pieces of might is right. He published the Eagle and the Serpent in 1898, which was just a reprint of chapter six. He started publishing a journal REDBEARD'S review. In England, it was mainly existed to like, sell copies of might is right, and it ran for around four years. Grossman also started to claiming to be a PhD at this time, and started signing his work with LD, the abbreviation for a doctorate of Law. When his biographers looked into this and found it to be an absolute lie, the University of Chicago where he claimed to have gotten his degree, didn't even award its first LD until a year after Desmond claimed to have received his cool, so pathetic, OK, and yet another grifter who follows in the pattern. They all wind up pretending to be a doctor at some point. Yeah. I mean, and that's that's almost Billy Wayne territory. I know, I know. And I'm, yeah, he, he's he he might leap out in through the poison room at this point to take over. It's OK. There's not a lot about the doctor part. I bravely take on the Incel beat and yeah, OK, so he's. I mean, we knew he was a liar and a grifter, but OK, OK. And we also don't know how old he is. We really don't like not even super close to how old he is. To be honest, we have a 20 year descriptive. I'm seeing like 1859 in a lot of stuff. Yeah, it's really hard to tell like different sources like you like one of the difficulties publishing the OR putting this together is like everyone who writes about him, there's a bunch of stuff that doesn't at all go along with each other. And I don't know exactly how everything timed out other than like the publication of his books and stuff we have. That set in stone. But like, I mean, and some of that's just down to the fact that this was like, the 1890s. Nobody was keeping good records back then, sure, but also, he was a criminal grifter who lied about every aspect of his life, so it seems like he might lie about his age, about everything. We don't even know if Arthur Desmond was his real name. Like, the reason they're pretty sure he was Ragnar Redbeard is just because, like, the poetry and **** in might is right, sounds exactly like Arthur Desmond's poetry. Like, and that seems compelling to me, like just having read a bunch of his poems. From earlier in his life and then reading might is right, like, I'm pretty ******* sure it's the same guy. There's definitely a through line through all of the ****** poetry we've heard today. And I I I'm also convinced that it's not Jack London who wrote might is right because Jack London, for all of his flaws, was a good ******* writer. He could write a ******* book and might as write is mostly nonsense. Like there's a couple turns of phrase that are Nate, but it's mostly just like insane babbling with no through line. I liked children's bones and that was a different publication. That was a different publication for me here. Well, maybe you just gotta read Midas, right, Jamie? And learn about antenna. Oh my God. And birthing work and thing or two. Now, it's possible that this new publishing career was very lucrative for Arthur. Some sources say he did well enough to buy a large ranch in Kalispell, Mt. He said to have stocked it with game animals and entertained journalist friends of his there with hunting and shooting parties. This is probably a lie because I've only found it in one source, but he might have gotten rich and bought a ranch in Montana. I really don't know. At the end of the 1800s, Arthur Desmond claimed to have ****** off to South Africa to fight. In the Second Boer War. He claimed to have joined a regiment of Light horse cavalry in Cape Town and to have fought in the vicious battle of pair Deberg in February 1900. After that adventure, if it happened, he moved back to Chicago and lived for a time under the name Richard Thurland. In 1903 he published might is right, the newest addition of survival of the fittest. With that title he wrote another book, rival Caesars, which flopped, and by 1904 he had been reduced to managing. Ice cream and candy company. So I don't know if he went to fight in the Second Boer War, but he definitely round up managing an ice cream company. OK, best chapter of his life yet? Yep. Now, if you know one thing about Arthur Desmond, it's that whenever he was in an office building, he was running an illegal side business out of that office building that he wasn't supposed to be running. Sure and true to form, while he was managing this ice cream company, he also ran an advertising business as a side hustle out of the office in March of that year. Desmond. And the trouble? When a telephone inspector asked to inspect the office as part of a routine checkup, Arthur refused, possibly because he was running a side business out of the office that his employers were unaware of. The inspector called the police and Desmond held them off for some hours with a rifle he had claimed to have captured during the Boer War. He was eventually assaulted, overpowered, subdued and taken to the Cook County Jail to await trial. Thankfully for Desmond, a lifetime as a labour firebrand and organizer had turned him into a capable public speaker. He defended himself successfully in court and seems to have earned the sympathy of the jury. Enough that he was freed. Ohh. Wow, that never works. Yeah, it did back then. It was an easier time. All right, well, now, of the rest of his life, we know fairly little. We know we got married once to a woman were like 20 something years his junior. They had a child, but she left him fairly quickly for reasons that are probably obvious. And she died at age 30. Yeah. Yeah. She died of tuberculosis, right? That's what I'm saying. I'm. I was trying to find out more about the this poor lady who he was just like, wow, you're one are looking mighty fine today. My inferior. And then she was like yeah I I don't have trouble believing like understanding why she would have left plugged my ovum daddy's gross if you want to plug some of them. Check out the products and services that support this show, and also ovaries. Yeah, that was probably a bad line to go to ads on, but we can't. We can't edit audio. We can edit this. We legally can't oham. Mint Mobile offers premium wireless starting at just 15 bucks a month. And now for the plot twist. Nope, there isn't one. Mint Mobile just has premium wireless from 15 bucks a month. There's no trapping you into a two year contract. You're opening the bill to find all these nuts fees. There's no luring you in with free subscriptions or streaming services that you'll forget to cancel and then be charged full price for none of that. For anyone who hates their phone Bill, Mint Mobile offers premium wireless for just $15.00 a month. Mint Mobile will give you the best rate whether you're buying one or for a family and at Mint. Family start at 2 lines. All plans come with unlimited talk and text, plus high speed data delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. You can use your own phone with any mint mobile plan and keep your same phone number along with all your existing contacts. Just switch to Mint mobile and get premium wireless service starting at 15 bucks a month. Get premium wireless service from just $15.00 a month and no one expected plot twists at mintmobile.com/behind. That's mintmobile.com/behind. Seriously, you'll make your wallet very happy at Mint Mobile. Com slash behind. So by now we imagine that you've seen the theories on tick tock. You maybe even heard the rumors, your friends and loved ones. But are any of the stories about government conspiracies and cover ups actually true? The answer is surprisingly or unsurprisingly, yes. For more than a decade, we here at stuff they don't want you to know have been seeking answers to these questions, sometimes their answers that people would rather us not explore. Now we're sharing this research with you. For the first time ever in a book format, you can preorder stuff they don't want you to know. Now it's the new book from us, the creators of the podcast and video series. You can turn back now or read the stuff they don't want you to know. Available for pre-order now, it's stuff you should read books.com or wherever you find your favorite books. My name is Erica Kelly and I am the host and creator of Southern Freight true crime. There are so many people that just have no idea about some injustices in the world and if you can give a voice to them you can create change. To be able to do it within podcasting is just such a gift. I believe it was 18 months after I got on with speaker that I was making enough that I could quit my day job. It was incredible. I always felt like an ambassador for speaker. But that's because I'm passionate about podcasting. It's really easy to use. I always tell people I am so not tech. Took me 5 minutes to get comfortable with spreaker, and when I find a new friend that has an incredible show, I want them to make money. I want them to be able to do what I did. Follow your podcasting dreams. Let's break our handle the hosting, creation, distribution, and monetization of your podcast. Go to spreaker.com. That's spreaker.com. Get paid to talk about the things you love. Spreaker from iheart. We're back, we're back, we're back, we're back. Talking about ovums and adds ovums and adds over behind the ********. Ohh God, ovums. That's feminist capitalism, baby. I love. And no, I can't participate. OK, Arthur News, Arthur ************* Desmond. So yeah, his first biographer, who was also his editor, claims that Desmond stayed mostly in the Chicago area for the rest of his life, publishing articles and journals, intermittently arguing with other anarchists, and republishing one. Last edition of might is right before his death in 1929 from a spontaneous cerebral hemorrhage that he had while stocking books at the bookstore where he worked. It was like a second hand shop. So he died of a stroke while putting books on a shelf. The author of Might is right, the book of how Warriors should rule the world very warily. Death. Now, that said, there are other stories about how he died. Some sources will claim he died fighting in Mexico in 1914 or in Palestine in 1918 or 1926. There are stories that he died in World War One. And for what it's worth, yeah, I think the likeliest version of events is that he ran a small bookstore as an old man and died in the late 1920s. Yeah, I believe the book. Story, narrative. I hope that he was reading. I wonder if he was like paging through something deeply pathetic and then he just, he just ****** off. But forever this time. Well, alright, rest in Power King, you loser. Rest in power king. Now. While our buddy Desmond was dead and buried by 1929, his work has lived on and it did not take long for his fevered writings to catch the imagination of another generation of political firebrand. In 1957, Anton Lavey, the father of modern Satanism, was walking down a street in San Francisco, CA when he came upon a rare bookstore. And the window was a particular tone that. Caught his eye. An old copy of might is right. Here's what Levay wrote about finding it. OK, what I saw should not have been in print. It was more than inflammatory. It was sheer blasphemy, obviously. McDonald hadn't even glanced within its pages, but figured the odd cover and title would remove it from the window. As I turned the pages, more blasphemy met my eyes. Crazy as it was, I found myself charged at the words. People just didn't write that way. There's a good reason for that, Anton there. Yeah, many scholars will claim, with significant evidence, that Anton Lavey plagiarized. Huge chunks of might is right in order to write the Satanic Bible, which is his most well known piece. Yeah, which he published in 1969. It's generally considered to be the most influential Satanic text I'm gonna quote now from Digital Commons. Levi's plagiarism was extensive. To his credit, however, Levay removed some of the more offensive passages and there are no racist undertones in the Satanic Bible. So Levay finds this book likes the parts of it about hating Christianity and about like some of the stuff about like the will to power and just cuts out the anti-Semitism and the racism and basically reprint some of it almost word for word as the Satanic Bible. Yeah, I wasn't aware that that was. I also that whole, that whole narrative of just like, and yeah, he'd never said, like, I'd never seen something written like that before. I wonder why that is. But we never get to the second question. I mean, part of it is that, like, I, in a little bit of fairness to levay, like in the 1950s you think about like, how closed American Society was and how, like, intolerant it was of any questioning of, like, Christianity, if patriarchal value of like, so anything that's like. I imagine there was so few, so, so little, like really radical text being written then, that anything that didn't reinforce, like, the ******* Mad Men lying about how society ought to be was, like intoxicating to a guy like Levay. And I suspect that some of what's happening. Yeah, for sure. If Anton Levay had been born later, he probably wouldn't have found this as influential because there would have been other **** to read. I mean, I'm glad that he at least cut out the craziest parts, but OK. I would think twice if I was like found myself enthralled with a philosopher and was like, OK, well I gotta cut out pages of racism, but like there's some there's some gold in here, but he's pretty spot on with everything else. So yeah, weird that he. I like what he says about antenna and ovums. Yeah wait, did Levay keep the the, the the woman stuff? I the woman stuff? I call it deep enough at it. But Levay did admit to basically plagiarizing might is right and he actually wrote a forward to a reprinting of might is right. That, like, is the addition I have. Wow quote After spreading the gospel of might is right for over a decade, came the official Commission to write a satanic Bible. My agent and publisher, one of the material I had already printed and tracked form with additional stuff to make up the Bible as quickly as possible. I was not a writer. Some will say I'm still not, but I had to draw from my inspirations what had to be said. Now you may know that every single occult scholar I knew warned me against publishing the Enochian call, saying that nobody touched upon them and it was doomed to even mention them. OK, that was enough for me. And they went. So it was with the. Selected passages from might is right, except I got no warnings because nobody had even heard of the damn book, especially head in the clouds of cult Nicks. It had inspired me though, and that was enough. The copyright, even with renewal, would have recently expired. So it suddenly became part of the Satanic Bible, with myself and the publisher holding, in context new copyrights on the portions employed. So we like, brags about plagiarizing it and copywriting and just getting away with it. Yeah, just being like, well yeah, sure I stole it, but I found a loophole. I that sounds like a yeah, that sounds like a fun, like indie. Comedy of like, I'm not much of a writer, but I've gotta write a Bible and fast. Like, horrible. Just steal from this book. I guess I'll just find this book by this incel racist. Yeah. I'm just. I'm sorry. I'm. I'm just looking at the Anton Lavey Google Images page. I've been here before, but it's always just newly shot. It's pretty fun, right? Snake heavy? Yeah, he was heavy. He had a style. You gotta give him that. He was way ahead on brand respected consistency. Brand, yes, I did. Yeah. They claims he only included the sections of might is right that he agreed with because the rest of the work was filling with what he called glaring contradictions and was at best a rant. Both of those things are very accurate. He sought to preserve the things he found so inspiring in Desmond's book without including all of the ******** quote. It is, despite my enthusiasm for the book, inaccurate. To state that might is right was the inspiration for the Church of Satan. For the record, I was relatively young when I discovered it, but I had already indulged myself in the experience of reading every scrap of anarchist, nihilist, extremist and free. Thought esoterica I could encounter a day hardly passes that I don't read a comment from someone who was astounded at how close his own thoughts come to the message of my Satanic Bible. I find that interesting because he's basically saying that like a lot of the stuff in might is right. I had thought of before as like a young dude on the fringes and like so much of Desmond's writing sounds like ****. I've seen kids on 8 Chan type who I know hadn't like read that **** or kids on 4 Chan, or read it like there's a certain degree to which, like frustrated young male minds think alike. And like, that's kind of what might is right is it's like the worst parts of the male aid published by a low rent poet and former labor organizer. That's how I would describe the book. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah. Well, I mean, I love when 2 Kings collaborate. Yeah, so, you know, there there is something primal about, I think, the young male psyche that Desmond was able to reach at times. And that's why Anton Lavey found it so compelling and why he cut out bits of Desmond's philosophy to write the Satanic Bible, which was also like magnetic to a chunk of young men. But, you know, someone like Levay was clearly strong headed enough that, like, he didn't imbibe all of the toxicity from might is right. Other people are more vulnerable. And this brings us back to the Gilroy garlic shooter. Santino Legan we don't know how or where he first came across. Might is right. The book is available for free online and I ran into it numerous times over the last year and post filled with suggested reading material on 8 Chan's poll board. They would include links to this one regularly. It was not the most popular tone of white supremacist reading, but it was certainly prominent and it's only grown more so in recent months. In my research, I found the website for a very dumb group called the Red Beard write, purporting to be an organization of white nationalists adhering to the ideas and ideals of Arthur Desmond. From that website quote this is a far right website, and unapologetically so. However, the site has nothing to do with National Socialism. This website is not for basic ***** Hitler fan goys. We are white nationalists, but not all right. We are the real right. Our ideal is not some kind of socialism without brown people. We are pragmatic realists. We embrace the nature of man and of life itself. We recognize man for the aware beast that he is and have no desire to domesticate him into docility. We seek to deal with the reality on its own terms. We have no interest in bewitching ourselves with fanciful Willow wisp utopias. We are the red beard. Right. We do not indiscriminately concern ourselves with just any white person's well-being. We instead reserve our concern for the well-being of those Europeans we feel worth preserving a future for. So there we go. That's a great Sir. This is a Wendy's red beard, right? Yeah, the red beard, right. I mean, the thing that I that strikes me about all this Arthur Desmond stuff, it is. It does sound like he was able to connect with that, like young, angry, like depressed, masculine thing, but it doesn't seem even that. Particularly strategic. It just seems like that was he was stuck there as opposed to like, Levay. Kind of more strategically pulling out stuff with a specific goal. But it's to me, like, especially as his career goes on, it's unclear to me what, like Arthur Desmond's real goal was, other than to be like, thought of as a ******* cool guy. And it's I, which I think is why people are like, so fluid in their ideology sometimes when they're just like, I just want someone to think I'm like, smart and cool. And if you don't think I'm cool and the labor unions, I'm ******* right off, you know? And yeah, and I think the present person is. The core of where what Desmond did like, that was the heart of it. And that's why it's so electrifying to a lot of young men because, like, there's this core of anger that, like, particularly young men often don't learn how to deal with. Right. And might is right. Kind of speaks to that in a very primal way and doesn't challenge any of it. And it doesn't really require that you do any introspection. Oh, boy. No. It just requires that you do a lot of push-ups so that you can punch people. Yeah. Now in the weight of Santino Legan shooting. The Red Beard Wright was forced to directly address what had happened because research revealed that the gunman had shared a Facebook post made by the group. Now the post included a bunch of quotes from Red Beers work, but it also included an image macro with a picture of a Viking that said Dear conquered peoples, the history of humanity is one of constant conflict and competition for resources like land, food, water and women. You whine about the fact that Europeans were and are better at this contest than any other culture in the world. You losers want us to regret being better at conquest and exploration than you were. You want. Apologies and reparations from people who were smarter and stronger than you. People who unequivocally won. We are not sorry. We owe you nothing. Deal with it. Deal with it, Deal with it. Yeah, now, this obviously looked bad for the red beard, right? No kidding. Yeah. So one member of the group posting under the misspelled username, red brick Breard. Posted this we at the Red Beard right do not disavow his actions, but we are not responsible for the actions of those who read our posts. We do not encourage our readers to commit violence. We do not condone what he did. His actions contributed nothing to our cause of white well-being. His actions were strategically stupid. So yeah, it's the fun guys now. A bit of digging made it clear that red Breard is James Theodore Stillwell, the third, which is absolutely the name of a guy who creates a website dedicated to the red deer. Red Beard, right. He calls himself a rogue philosopher, which is the most no, yeah, that's the most punchable thing you can. Sounds like a terrible YouTube channel. I think I would. I would have to fist fight someone who introduced themselves as a rogue philosopher. Rogue philosopher that would. That's my might is right. I'm going to write a book just about punching people like this guy. Change. Theodore Stillwell, the third, yeah. He lives in Keene, NH, where he writes books like Power Nihilism, A case for moral and literal nihilism. Well, he portrays himself as some sort of Neo Viking warrior skeptic. My guess is that he will probably wind up living as a low end bookseller and dying alone of a stroke like his idol. As for Santino Legan, the Gilroy shooter, he proved to be distinctly less mighty than the Gilroy police, who shot him repeatedly with one minute of opening fire. Most mass shooters these days tend to have some sort of political message they're trying to get out, and satino was no exception. He created an Instagram account. Just a few days before the shooting and posted about Ragnar Redbeard's might is right. It's clear to me that he hoped people would be inspired by his shooting to read the book. Law enforcement combed through Santino's home after the attack, and they seem to have been baffled by what they found there. The Los Angeles Times quoted John Bennett, the FBI agent in charge of the investigation. Among the information we're collecting there is conflicting literature, everything from left to right. So Bennett said investigators do not feel they can put this person in a box. I wouldn't say it was extreme views. It is writings and books that we have found through some of the search warrants. We are trying to go through all the literature and make sense of it. Now to me this suggests that Santino himself went through an ideological evolution not unlike that of Arthur Desmond, flirting with the most extreme elements of left and right wing political theory before settling with violent, egoistic nihilism. According to some reports, one of Santino's victims at the festival was heard to ask him, why are you doing this? To which the 19 year old allegedly responded. Because I'm really angry and I think that right there gets at the core of why Arthur Desmond did what he did and what was in like. Because I'm really appealing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, God, that's awful. That's so brutal. OK yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, well, well. There's that. Robert was there is. Oh, geez. You have fun with this one. No, it started kind of fun. I liked the poetry parts. I love dunk. Yeah. The poetry parts was fun. I love dunking on a ****** poet. Yeah got I mean it is I. It is trouble troubling that like, I mean yeah. Just when that something this angry that and it's just like so clear how like impotent it comes off and the fact that you know it's still, it's still appealing to equally angry people. It's a sad take away. It really is. Because it sounds like Arthur Desmond was like a real kind of like a sad pathetic. Person himself. And is inspiring a sad, pathetic people to this day, it just is. Let's look. And the saddest thing about it to me is that, like Desmond, there was clearly a point at which he could have done good for the world. Like he started out with really good intentions. Like, you get a lot of credit for me if you're the only person. The only white dude in town willing to stand up for an indigenous person and their right to like, exist in your community and stuff like, and it's just like that. Like that's the big question is, like, why? Why do some men who wind up in kind of the similar situations where the sort of pushing against the social tide stay true to their moral compass and like, you know, fight for what they see as justice? And why do some men like, like Desmond become consumed by their anger and leave their idealism behind and. It's turned into these this sort of like ****** ******* nihilist, but like yeah like ego driven like it does it does seem like an ego problem if you if you if you feel ego. Yeah, like it the the like his like left-leaning political. I guess you could call it a career. But like early on when he was still doing cool stuff, it's it sounds like he just didn't get the like payoff of that that he wanted. Which just puts in the expectation that he was always expecting something from doing this and. If he didn't get what he wanted, then why do it? It's just, it's just, I mean, it's all very bleak. To me. Yeah, yeah. It's like he he wanted. I think you are right that like he wanted recognition out of his activism. He wanted to win and he wanted to be recognized for his importance in the struggle. And when it became clear that like, no dude, like turning around the the kind of weight of inhuman injustice that is like this inertia in our culture that like leads to such like an oppressed underclass of labour is turning that around isn't the work of one person. It's the work of millions of people over the course of decades. And really. Centuries, if we're, like, being realistic about it. And that doesn't mean it's not valuable, but like, a guy like him, I think, was too narcissistic to accept that. And so when he realized, yeah, he just bails halfway through exactly, and gives up on his principles, it's sad. I mean, and I do think that there are like, other examples of that in the tons of them, yeah, just like people who start with being really into leftist politics, who who just sort of sour for various narcissistic reasons. It's a story. You see Jason Kessler, the guy who organized the bloody unite the right rally in Charlottesville? Yeah, his first big political like action was taking part in Occupy Wall Street. And if you go into the Discord archives, that Unicorn right, as posted, of those like fascist groups that planned those, those early 2017 rallies and you just type in the term occupy. A whole bunch of them got their start with Occupy Wall Street and sort of like liberal and left wing activism. And then they realize like that ****** hard because you're fighting against. Social inertia. And so they turned to this kind of violent, nihilistic, toxic ******** because it's easier. Yeah, yeah, it is. Yeah, it's less challenging. And. There's more direct ego based reward. I guess it's just. Ohh God, because I'm really angry. Because I'm really angry. Really does sum it all up, doesn't it? Yeah. Yep. Yep, Yep, Yep. Well, you want to plug your plug cables, Jamie. Yeah, this feels this it always it it is. It never feels right. I love a good pluggable. All right, I'm I'm on Twitter.com at Jamie Loftus help and Instagram at Jamie Cray. Superstar can listen to the Bechdel cast every Thursday. And yeah, that's that's what I'll puggles that's all your pluggable as well. You can find me at irido OK on Twitter. Umm. If you want to find a political philosopher who was not a violent nihilist and not anti woman, maybe read some Murray Bookchin. You can find this podcast sources at behindthebastards.com. You can find shirts on teepublic behind the ********. And you can find love inside your heart where it dwells in the hearts of us all, wherever it remains. Seek it out where it remains and let leopards crush your children's bones or whatever. Whatever that lion was. Yeah, leopards. Leopards. Robert, you're going to plug worst year ever or no. Oh yeah, we have a podcast called the worst year ever. It's about the 2020 election. Speaking of being pushed into violent nihilism. Hard sell, hard sell. I'm not good at selling things. Hello, I'm Erica Kelly from the podcast Southern Fried True crime, and if you want to go from podcast fan to podcast host, do what I did and check out spreaker from iheart. I was working in accounting and hating it. Then after just 18 months of podcasting with Spreaker, I was able to quit my day job. Follow your podcasting dreams. Let's break our handle the hosting, creation, distribution, and monetization of your podcast. Go to spreaker.com. That's spreaker.com. Want to say I don't know less? 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