Listen to Episode

Read Episode Transcript

Hey, Robert here. It's been like two months since I had LASIK and I'm still seeing 2020. All I had to do was go in for a consultation, then go in for a maybe 10 minute procedure and then my eyes have been great ever since. You know, I healed up wonderfully. It was very simple, couldn't have been a better experience. So if you want to explore LASIK plus I can't recommend it enough. They have over 20 years experience in the industry and they performed more than two million treatments right now if you want to try getting LASIK plus you can get $1000 off of your surgery when you're treated in September, that's $500. Of per eye, just visitmylasikoffer.com to schedule your free consultation. Hello, I'm Erica Kelly from the podcast Southern Fried true crime. And if you want to go from podcast fan to podcast host, do what I did and check out spreaker from iheart. I was working in accounting and hating it. Then after just 18 months of podcasting with Spreaker, I was able to quit my day job. Follow your podcasting dreams. Let's breaker handle the hosting, creation, distribution, and monetization of your podcast. Go to spreaker.com. That's spreaker.com. In the 1980s and 90s, a psychopath terrorized the country of Belgium. A serial killer and kidnapper was abducting children in the bright light of day. From Tenderfoot TV and iHeartRadio, this is La Monstra, a story of abomination and conspiracy. The story about the man who simply become known as. Lamaster. Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. That's. That is, this is my favorite how we're starting. Miles is coughing up the marijuana he just smoked. I mean, look, life stuff, man. It's ******* rough. We're recording this on a Monday, which we never do. This is why this opening is why we don't record on Mondays. Wow. Sorry. I woke up at 1:00 and got out of bed at 2:00 and then ran in my armor for an hour to wake my body up and have done nothing productive. Except you look wonderful. Open a podcast. Thank you. I feel great since I got to run, but must be nice. Yeah, you have like a exercisers glow. Hmm. Yeah, I don't know if that's the word. That's exactly what you're supposed to say. You have a colonizers glow about you. Thank God I could go for some colonizing. Files just like analyzers. Glow. I'm just gonna throw some names out there. El Salvador. That seems like a place that hasn't been colonized. Well, yeah, spoil it. Well, never mind. I'm like. I'm like, I don't want to look it up and find out how horrible they call it. We've talked about El Salvador in our in our school of the Americas episode. All the death squads we backed there. Yeah, and then we're confused about MS13. Huh? Hmm. Which started in the United States, right. It's all good. It's like, huh? It's all good ****. You know what else is good **** miles? James Harvey. John Harvey Kellogg. Which one was he? James Jesus, it's James John Kellogg. And they would say John Harvey Keitel. Yeah. I didn't know where you were going there, to be honest. I actually, I I wrote. I wrote a Harvey Keitel episode. But so he said 336 pages was too long for a podcast script. Oh my God. So well, it was almost as long as the Will Wheaton script she won't let me read. That's not accurate. You can read that. What have I ever told you? You can't. Sorry, legal told us I can't do the Will Wheaton script because there's no evidence that he was the son of Sam killer. The Internet's most favorite child. Uh, Speaking of children, you know who was terrible with children? Hmm. John Harvey Kellogg. Why did I fall for that? America's great come doctor. Sophie, can we have the title of these episodes? Be America's great come doctor. I mean, if it's what your heart desires. Robert, I've never stopped you. Magna *** doctor magnificum. Dr Magna cume. Loud, though. No. OK, so let's let's let's I I actually scripted the start of this being let's start this episode by talking a whole lot about ************. And I guess we got an early start on that. Yeah, we're depraved. We're depraved. I think most people would agree that ************ is among, with some exceptions, is among the least problematic things that you can do as long as you're private about it. It's low carbon. It's available to people regardless of their income. Level and it brings with it a whole bunch of health benefits. You know people with penises who masturbate regularly have lower risks of variety of cancers. People with vaginas who masturbate regularly often find climaxing make sex easier. Everyone who *********** can benefit from pain relief. Better sleep, lower levels of cortisol. It's pretty much a win. Win is what I'm saying I'm really glad you said privately cause Louis CK jerked off and yes I I was I was thinking about Louis CK when I wrote that paragraph and and made certain to insert privately. Hmm. Into a plant. Into an innocent plant in front of innocent people? No, I'm going to go ahead and say if you're private about it, it's fine to come in. Plants? No. Who gives it? Yeah, it's fine. They're plants. They don't know what's going on. They don't know what you're doing. Then it's like having sex when a cat's in the room, the cat doesn't understand. And if you're worried, scoop it out after. That seems worse for some reason. Did you really care? You care that much? It's like, yeah, look, you're gonna bust on the soil, but then you're like, well, I don't want to fully fund. Happening here, I think coming on a plant, it's like, it's like having sex in front of a cat or a dog when they're in, like the room. And it's like, yeah, they don't know what's going on. It's not like ******* in front of a monkey. If you've ever ****** in front of a monkey, the monkeys know what's happening. I don't think you're right about that one. I I think I'm right about that. I don't like eyes on me, even animal or otherwise. You know, my old roommates dog used to hump along on the side. Oh yeah, I mean, but that doesn't mean he knows what's happening. That just means he knows the motion. But. This shows the body was castrated at a young age. Sure, shout out. Shout out to the to the young legend Roxy. That's the dog's name. Yeah. Wow. I once ****** in front of a couple of 100 monkeys and it was very clear that they were all well aware of what was happening. So weird. How did that even? Yeah, what? It was in the jungle. Why are you like the ship? It was in the jungle. Huge Robert is now the alt. Like takate, like most interesting man in the world guy. Or dos equis. Rather all Dos Equis. Yeah, just yeah. It's you. Just like hitting a 40 in an alleyway. Like the same setup. And he's like, if you've never ****** in front of 300 monkeys, have you ever even ****** it? Might have been a few dozen. It's hard to tell in the job. I really wish there was a lot of unseen mild space when he did that bit. Just give a nice cheers and a cocked eyebrow, you know? It's just there's an energy to it. I feel like if steel reserve wanted to advertise with me, I could sell a lot of steel reserve. That is. Oh yeah. Extra gravity. Uh-huh. 211, baby. Where's the 211 crew at Steel reserve? When was the last time you vomited on another person's steel reserve? 211, also armed robbery. Ohh, who knows? Whatever. Still reserved the perfect size for holding A6 shooter in your other hand. Ah, look at us. Shut up to the California Penal Code section. Yeah. So this was longer than I intended the introduction to. Yeah. But the the point of it is that you have to work pretty hard to make ************ be unhealthy. And this is how people, I think in general feel now because of overwhelming, rigorous scientific data showing that it's pretty good for you. But in John Harvey Kellogg's Day, scientific consensus was less about what the hard data said. And more about whatever a bunch of weird white dudes with sexual hangups figured was right. Kellogg was the latest in one of the biggest links in a chain that stretches back generations. Sylvester Graham and many of the other scientists of his day believed ************ would lead inevitably to insanity if it continued long enough. Kellogg agreed an extended the dangers of coming further to a breathtaking list of maladies. Here's how scholar Vern Bullough captured the different ailments Dr Kellogg Blake Kellogg blamed on ************. Quote general. Possibility, consumption like symptoms, premature and defective development, sudden changes in disposition, lassitude, sleeplessness, failure of mental capacity, fickleness, untrustworthiness, love of solitude, bashfulness, unnatural boldness, mock piety, being easily frightened, confusion of ideas, aversion to girls and boys. But it decided liking of boys and girls. So I guess you you like, you like tomboys too much if you masturbate all the time. Round shoulders, a week back and stiffness of joints. Paralysis of the lower extremities, a natural gait, bad posture in bed, lack of breast development in females, capricious appetite, fondness for a natural, or hurtful or irritation articles such as salt, pepper, spices, vinegar, mustard, clay, slate, pencils, plaster, and shot. You might like spices and chalk if you come too much. Oh my God, what is this list? How convenient. OHS is weird. Giant ohgod disgust it, simple food, use of tobacco, unnatural paleness, acne or pimples, biting of fingernails, shifty eyes, moist cold hands, palpitation of the heart, hysteria in females, chlorosis or green sickness, anemia, epileptic fits, bed wetting, and use of obscene words and phrases. I will say that last one is accurate. People do do do cuss a lot when when ************. I mean who knows who thought a teenage with pimples might also be ************? Yeah, there's a real correlation is not causation thing there. Ohh and actually miles, you've keyed in on how all of this nonsense really got going in the 1st place because scientists of the day didn't want to think that they weren't empiric, basing their conclusions on like empiric reality even though they weren't. And they found ways to convince themselves that. Observation backed up their fears about ************. Here's how it worked. 19th century physicians would observe patients in mental institutions and make a note of what behaviors they engaged in. The idea was that whatever behavior unhealthy people engaged in must somehow cause that unhealthiness. Oh my God. And since the number one thing inmates in asylums did was masturbate, doctors concluded that ************ caused insanity. The ****? I mean, it's not funny, because no, it's yeah, 18th, 19th century asylums were just unbelievable crimes against humanity. But God, good Lord, how simple. And we were calling these people ******* experts. These people we lock up in a room and never let out our ************. That must be why we lock them up. Damn it. Huh? And then what have you, the people that are always looking at them ************? Yeah. No, I don't think any of them ever analyzed. Themselves. Did anyone go there? Like apply that same logic path to anything else except for this one thing? Like, I mean, they did, but like they did with like kids have pimples and kids masturbate. It must be a cause, you know, but everything. Yeah. Well then also let's see this kids also. He walks funny. Alright, so weird gate. And his posture is bad because he's a teen who's like awkward in their own body. Or they're awkward in their own body and you know, just but I love late the lazy science of this time. It's amazing, just like you. It's so ******* ridiculous and unchallenged it is. It is this is it. And based on this unbelievably shoddy data, like huge chunks of the scientific community conclude that ************ is not just bad for you, but a public health menace. And as a result, and since it was like a menace, doctors developed a variety of ways to treat it. Because obviously this is a life threatening problem. So almost anything that's justified. Ointments were applied to the hands or genitals of the ************ youth to make touching their genitals. Painful stuff like icy hot. Basically, they would put like that on people's genitals to make it hurt to touch. Some surgeons would actually put holes in a person's foreskin and insert a ring into it, not unlike a Prince Albert, but in such a way that if you were to, if you were to get erect, it would stretch the the foreskin. Painfully. Yeah, yeah, these are torture devices. What, though? Like the club for your foreskin? Yeah, like the club for your foreskin. That is so ****** ** in violent. Oh my, it's horrible. What's the horrible? What? And did they have any, like success stories that allowed them? They called them success stories. One knocked off the ************ and now they're completely they're they're they're they're much better. Now. We've seen market improvement. I would imagine the way a lot of the success stories work. Is that right? You've got this kid who is has some sort of behavioral problem, right? He's not paying attention in school. He's he's lashing out or something. He's doing something and you're blaming it on the ************. So you put a torture ring in *** **** and he stops doing the thing that got him punished because you're torturing him, right? And he doesn't wanna be tortured. It's not because he stopped ************ cause ************ wasn't causing the behavior. Although he probably doesn't masturbate as much because you put a torture ring in *** ****. But through the same kind of logic they were using earlier in the mental hospitals, people conclude this helps. Wow, it's great. close loop. Castration was ordered in the most severe cases, but circumcision was much more common. And in fact in the United States circumcision first gained purchase among Gentiles because it was believed, I mean accurately, that it would deaden sensation and thus reduce ************. So circumcision first became popular among like non Jewish people in the United States because it was like an anti ************ treatment. Shut that go. How'd that go? Nobody's ever come, miles. I don't know if you're aware of this, but it doesn't happen anymore. It's like I'm gonna get some more of that beef fat from earlier. I'll be right back. Are you guys still rendering that lard? So. Today, uh, you know, as with today, like, for every popular kind of health ailment, boogeyman, event like COVID-19, you know, there's the stuff the doctors actually prescribe for it, and then there's a whole bunch of, like, Mom cures. You know what I'm talking about when I say mom cares. Yeah, homespun remedies cooked up by parents. This is the case today with every kind of public health problem. And it was the case in the 1900s with ************ as the section from a study in the Journal of Technology and Culture lays out, quote, some parents, however, preferred to develop methods of their own. Many of which were patented. American inventive genius quickly asserted itself through the development of a wide variety of gloves, guards, and other devices designed to make it more difficult for a child to masturbate. Gloves, for example, we're tied on child children's hands when as they went to bed and parents were instructed to have their child sleep with the gloves on top of the blanket to make certain that there was not even gloved contact with the genital area. Gloves were also advised for mental patients and were widely used in mental institutions. Specially designed bed cradles were manufactured in order to lift the bedclothes from the genital area so that the child would not rub against the blankets. Girls were discouraged from spreading their legs, and special hobbles were designed to prevent them from doing so. They hobbled young girls's legs to stop them from spreading them because it was thought that that would cause ************. Ohh most ubiquitous however, were the various harnesses designed to protect the genital area. Usually patented under the to the term surgical devices, the female harnesses usually had perforated wire type meshing so that the girls could urinate through them and never touch themselves. All of these devices were fastened in the back, many with locks for which only the parents had the key. For males there were similar devices, but most popular were sheaths with metal teeth that fitted over the penis. If the penis became erect, the teeth pierced the flesh and made any erection. Painful. Each new breakthrough in technology seemed to lead to a new kind of device. Appliances that gave electric shocks, for example, came on the market after development of batteries. From Patent Office records, I have been able to identify some 20 devices intended to prevent ************. 20 devices? Yeah, that's just the ones that got patented. How common would you say this was as a percentage? I have no idea it was. It was obviously this was a thing that wealthier parents. Had two wealthier kids more often than it was for the poor because it costs money to get these kind of medical treatments. It costs money to buy these kinds of devices. But it was not uncommon, right? I think is is clear it was and and the idea that even if these devices weren't the most method of treating with it, punishing some sort of punishment often involving physical pain for ************ I would say was the norm. Right. Like when it was caught because there was a very widespread idea that it was harmful. Right. So that's that makes so much sense, I think, in really trying to look at sort of the practical experience of how puritanical American Society is and the aversion to sexuality is you have it, you have generations of people who were, you know, receiving punitive treatment, you know, punishment, physical punishment for exploring their sexuality. And how that just sort of keeps manifesting and iterating. Yeah, it's pretty great. Pretty great. I mean, it's wild because some of the devices described you can now still find on sale, but for a very different purpose. But I suspect that probably has something to do with it. A lot of weird kinks are born during this. Because of the medical genital torture industry. It's good stuff, miles. It's good stuff. So thanks for having. Thanks for being on here. It's going to get a lot worse as a heads up. I know. Yeah. This is the best it's going to be. So just saying, just savor. Savor the moment where we're just talking about a torture cage for a penis. Yeah, so John Harvey Kellogg. The reason I go through all this is to point out that he was not the origin point for the war on ************ nor was he the only prominent voice urging abusive treatments to discourage perfectly natural self pleasuring. He was, however, the most prominent physician in the country. By the early 1900s, the sanitarium was one of the most advanced and respected medical facilities in the nation, and since Doctor Kellogg was an experimenter. He experimented with new treatments from ************ as well. One of these treatments involved what he called skillful catheterization, using his considerable surgical abilities to insert a catheter up the urethra of the offending masterbater. Next, he would electrocute the catheter going up into their urethra, often while shooting water up into the urethra at the same time, to, like, make it more conductive. I yeah, I guess. Or just because he thinks shooting water into every hole is the solution to problems. It might not have been a torture. That might just have been because, like, well, if we add water, it'll make it better. Cause water is the medicine that I prefer because we all know water and electricity. Mm-hmm. The great cure. These electrifying bats. So this is not a huge jump for the man. Jesus. But yeah. Shoves a catheter up through urethra and then shoots water and electricity up it again. Sounds like something the CIA would do, right? Like that's some Guantanamo ****. Is there any evidence, like, where are the writings on this success? You know, I'm sure they probably had to manufacture stories to make it like, how could you just like blind it a bit? OK, yeah, because OK cuz I'm just like, this is just so ****** **. A big part of this is it is not quite universally accepted that that this is bad health wise, and it was, but it was nearly universally accepted that it was morally wrong. So it wasn't just does it work? It was this needs to be punished, right? So this is what you do. It's just like parents beating their kids for thousands of years. Nobody like there. You could find a lot of different people. Getting about how healthy it is to hit your kid. Nobody was doing studies on it. There was an empirical evidence about the value of slapping your kid around, but they did it and they were certain that it helped. So I don't know. Yeah. So this is just the are just sickest urges coming out in this, you know, morally, quote UN quote, justifiable way. Absolutely. So yeah, that that was one of Kellogg's experimental therapies and he would he when, when he would have people brought into his facility for chronic ************ they would often be interned. At the sanitarium for long periods of time where a variety of therapies would be tried on them. We talked last episode about his specific, painfully uncomfortable bedding requirements to avoid stimulation. This was in part because Doctor Kellogg viewed comfortable, healthy sleep, the kind where you, you know, enter a rim cycle and dream as inherently dangerous. He declared. In writing in perfectly natural sleep, there are no dreams. Consciousness is entirely suspended, and for some reason that is one of the most frightening things I've ever read. It's like if you're dreaming. They're unhealthy. Someone's dreaming. Someone's having weird dreams, aren't they? Yeah, Doctor John Kellogg is having some dreams that he does not like. Hey, if you're having dreams too, then you're just as ****** ** based on this logic. Yeah, that's why you wanna make sure they're sleeping. Arrangements are as uncomfortable as possible so that nobody ever gets a good night's sleep. And did he practice what he preached? He did. He did practice what he to to the extent that we can verify as as far as we know, he practiced what he preached. Interesting. John Harvey didn't just think dreams were unhealthy. He thought they were immoral. If a child or a woman with a ************ problem claimed to be unable to control their dreams, he would call them a liar. ****** dreams, in Kellogg's understanding, were choices, acts of deliberate defiance against morality and against the medical establishment. Dr Kellogg also urged his patients to avoid consumption of, quote, sexually aggressive food. And here's a quote from Kellogg Tea and Coffee have led thousands to perdition in this way. Candy, spices, cinnamon, cloves, peppermint, and all strong. Since his powerfully excite the genital organs and lead to the same result. You know how when you're drinking coffee and you just can't stop yourself from just just just pounding it like the beach in Omaha before the ground assault? Because he says cinnamon ************. Might as well call it come. What about your serial? Oh no, no, they didn't have spices in his day. Remember he broke up with his brother because his brother puts sugar in the in the corner? That was part of part of why they didn't get along. Yeah. Wow. No, John Hurt. Yeah, I really appreciate that D-Day visual too. Thank you. Yes, it's a nice picture. Someone furiously ************ like on a hedgehog on the beach. We're income sector. Well, so, all right, here's the ads. Mint Mobile offers premium wireless starting at just 15 bucks a month. And now for the plot twist. Nope, there isn't one. Mint Mobile just has premium wireless from 15 bucks a month. There's no trapping you into a two year contract. You're opening the bill to find all these nuts fees. There's no luring you in with free subscriptions or streaming services that you'll forget to cancel and then be charged full price for none of that. For anyone who hates their phone Bill, Mint Mobile offers premium wireless for just $15.00 a month. Mint Mobile will give you the best rate whether you're buying. Or for a family. And it meant family start at 2 lines. All plans come with unlimited talk and text, plus high speed data delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. You can use your own phone with any mint mobile plan and keep your same phone number along with all your existing contacts. Just switch to Mint mobile and get premium wireless service starting at 15 bucks a month. Get premium wireless service from just $15.00 a month, and no one expected plot twists at mintmobile.com/behind. That's mintmobile.com/behind. Seriously, you'll make your wallet. Very happy at Mint Mobilcom behind. Now a word from our sponsor that our help. If you're having trouble stuck in your own head, focusing on problems dealing with depression, or just, you know can't seem to get yourself out of a rut, you may want to try therapy. And better help makes it very easy to get therapy that works with your lifestyle and your schedule. A therapist can help you become a better problem solver, which can make it easier to accomplish your goals, no matter how big or small they happen to be. So if you're thinking of giving therapy. Try better help is a great option. It's convenient, accessible, affordable, and it is entirely online. You can get matched with a therapist after filling out a brief survey, and if the therapist that you get matched with doesn't wind up working out, you can switch therapists at any time when you want to be a better problem solver therapy can get you there. Visit betterhelp.com behind today to get 10% off your first month. That's better helpp.com/behind. Better help calm behind. Hey, Robert Evans here. It's been like two months since I got LASIK laser eye surgery and my vision still 2020. So many things about my daily life has changed. I don't have to worry about putting on a mask in my glasses, fogging up and have to take out contacts at night or put them in the day. I don't have to like, worry all the time when I'm traveling. Like, how many contacts do I have by going swimming at the lake during the summer? Something I like to do, go to the beach or whatever. I don't have to worry about losing a contact or, you know, bringing swimming glasses or something with me. Everything is just easier. And getting it done was easy too. You know. I went in, I had my consultation. They told me I was a good candidate. And then I went back in a couple of days later about a Bing bada boom. You know, my eyes were perfect. So LASIK Plus is a leader in laser vision correction in the United States. They have over 20 years in the industry and more than two million treatments performed. If you want to start your LASIK plus journey, you can get $1000 off when treated in September. That's 500 per eye. So visit my LASIK offer. Dot com to schedule your free consultation now. Uh, we're back. We're back, and we're all having a good, appropriate work day. Let's get back to talking about how this old man punished people for ************. So it will probably not surprise you to hear that John Harvey Kellogg also forbade his patients from reading romantic literature, which in his mind was as deadly as any hard drug quote storybooks. Romances, love tales, and religious novels constitute the chief part of the reading matter. Which American young ladies? Readily devour we have known young ladies, still in their teens, who had read whole libraries of the most exciting novels. The taste for novel reading is like that for liquor or opium. Wait, the whole the OK guys like Kellogg? He wants a world where nobody eats spices, everything is planned, nobody sleeps a full night's sleep, and people are tortured for ************. And if a girl reads a romance novel, she might become aware of the fact that it's possible to enjoy life, and that would be devastating to John Harvey Kellogg's worldview. What a ******* he is. Just it's just so ridiculous when that earlier quote, when he said it would be like a. An act of, you know, you know, transgression against. Yeah, medical establishment. And he coupled that with morality, you know, just sort of this, you know. Oh, there have been ordained from ******* by God to be the enforcers of his law. However they see it through their ****** ** lens. He believes that struggle. You know, he gets into medicine through the 7th Day Adventist church, right? It's it's one and the same to him dedicating him to God and now like, it's just like, what a *******. That's just what shows you, though, too. Like, I'm sure you know how again, that's something else that reverberates in medicine culturally. Yeah. If this is, if this is part of, you know, like, I'm I'm guessing this was the medical establishment, like, quite a lot of. And this is not universal. There are, as we talk about later, there's doctors a lot. There's like a not insignificant amount of medical professionals in, in this. Even who disagree with these conclusions. But this is a fairly mainstream attitude in medicine. Yeah. Yeah. You know, John Harvey Kellogg is kind of like a doctor Oz figure, but he is much more respected among mainstream doctors than doctor Oz was, in part because he is actually an excellent surgeon, right? Like, he is a yeah. So I found a lot of the quotes that I've read so far in a wonderful write write up by Jezebel that'll be on the show notes that I really recommend reading. That article summarizes Dr Kellogg's arguments against romance literature thusly. The problem with this sort of reading, explained Kellogg, is that it takes a girl beyond the wholesome dreadfulness of her reality and transports her to a place that triggers passion. Passion so great that some girls quote discovered the fatal secret themselves. And the fatal secret is, of course. That it's possible for women to orgasm. Oh my God. So you don't you don't want to learning that. Yeah. And it's here that I should note that John Harvey Kellogg bragged his entire life about never consummating his marriage. He was married for like 40 something years and would brag his entire life that he and his wife never ******. I'm so sorry to hear, but I have a feeling he was probably bad at sex. I I think she might have dodged a bullet there, to be honest. Yeah. Yeah, I think so. She's like, I'm. Yeah. What is how do you like? You're like, oh, you know, I'm not. I've been fine dry for ******* ages, man. I didn't you, baby. Oh my God. Like kidney stones. I don't even get ** **** *** when I take a bath. Got a special copper submersible diving bell for my genitals? Ohh God what? I don't get me enough. Ohh. To hear that is funny. Are they Kellogg's ****? No, definitely not. But a genital diving bell. Yeah, a genital that's very funny. I mean, I don't know what do you even say to that. This is, this is, this is. Like a like the fact that you would brag about being married for 40 something years and never once ******* is. Give some and the fact that he's a man who thought that dreaming was unhealthy, like, both of those facts together, like, ohh, you were profoundly damaged. Just an incredibly unhealthy person. Yeah, it's unbelievable. And then it's really amazing this, like, his place in our culture and being so, like, just unwitting about the entire history about him, aside from just vaguely being like, like I said in the beginning of like, yeah, dude, I know. He was like, new. It's a weird thing about ************. Corn flakes, yeah. No, no, it's it's real bad. It's about to get real worse. So John Harvey Kellogg, if questioned on any of the things that I've read, any of his like statements that I've read earlier, if question about any of this would have defended himself by pointing out studies like the research into ************ mental patients, he would have claimed accurately that the dangers of ************ were widely agreed upon by experts of his day. But most of his specific claims about how children were impacted by what he called the secret Vice. We're not tied to any specific research. He was convinced for moral reasons that ************ was a danger, eclipsing almost anything else. There was no research to show that electrocution, uncomfortable beds and mental abuse actually stopped ************ but they punished the crime of self abuse, and John Harvey looked no further than that in justifying his treatments. And again, you have to remember that this guy is like the pop doctor of his day. Parents listened to him. Here is a checklist he published of different behaviors that in his mind were signs that a parent's child was secretly engaged in deadly ************. Bed wetting, quote ************ causes the entire genital area to become LAX and undisciplined. Changes in behavior when a girl naturally joyous, happy, confiding an amiable becomes an unaccountably gloomy, sad, fretful, dissatisfied and unfading be certain that ************ is the cause, for it will rarely be found to be anything other than solitary and indulgence. He listed insomnia as a justification for suspicion of evil habits. Trouble in school might also indicate ************ as doctor. So, as Doctor Kellogg claimed, it damaged children's memories and their ability to focus. ************ caused lying, bashfulness and an unwillingness to meet the eyes of adults. The eye is a wonderful telltale of the secrets of the mind, he warned parents boldness. A child acting out, in other words, was another sign of secret ************ as was fearfulness quote easily frightened children are abundant among young masturbators. The victim's mind is constantly filled with vague forebodings of evil. He often looks behind him, looks into all the closets. Keeps under the bed and is constantly expressing fears of impending evil. Such movements are the result of a diseased imagination, and they may give rise. Justly give rise to suspicion. Another sign, Zia miles it's like he's just listing everything a kid would possibly do. It's so ****** ** and unfair it gets worse. Another side was unusual vaginal discharge or a stretched vaginal cavity in little girls. Most worrisome, Kellogg wrote, was seductive behavior from young female children. A forward or loose manner and company with little boys is suspicious conduct, especially in one who has previously shown no disposition of this short. Sort girls addicted to this habit usually show an unnatural fondness for the Society of little boys, and not infrequently are guilty of the most wanton conduct. Now, you already noted, miles, that a number of these symptoms of secret ************ are just things kids do. But it gets worse than that, because as that Jezebel write up notes, a lot of the things that Doctor Kellogg laid out as signs of ************ are also today commonly recognized signs that a child may be sexually abused. Oh my God. Yeah, buddy. Yeah, Jesus Christ. Here's Jessibel quote the Delaware Department of Services for Children, Youth and their families because it gives a very succinct list of similar behaviours, which also include changes in behavior, inappropriate sexual behaviors, changes in school performance, and vaginal discharge. Modern medicine and psychology identifies these conditions as potential signs of a child being sexually abused. The two lists match almost word for word. Wow. Now the thought that countless sex abuse victims were brought to doctor Kellogg, child sex abuse victims were brought to doctor Kellogg and punished for ************ is horrible enough, but it actually gets a lot worse than that. A particularly dire case study would be one that Kellogg himself wrote out in his 1902 edition of Ladies Guide to Health and Disease, a book he absolutely should not have written. He writes that a mother brought in her 10 year old daughter to him for treatment. The young girl was a rape victim. Dr Kellogg identifies her as such. He knew that she was a victim of sexual abuse and he wrote quote. Her first instruction, and by instruction he means her first, like she first learned about sex by this guy who abused her was received from a hoary headed fiend in human shape who had enticed her to a secluded place and there introduced her to all the nastiness which is depraved and sensual nature could devise. Now, so far, that's not horrible. He's putting the blame on the abuser, which is good. But the problem is that Kellogg didn't see this little girl's chief problem as the fact that she'd been abused and assaulted and robbed of agency over her own body. In his eyes, the problem was that she had been introduced to sexual sin, and that was going to make her masturbate. Oh my God so again he gets brought a 10 year old sex abuse victim and his first concern is she might start ************. Yeah. Yeah, and like this. Just horrible feedback loop. Uh-huh. That's impossible. Like all roads just lead to this no matter what and there's no empathy or anything. And it's the thing where even if this person is a victim in being a victim leads them to this, what he believes is an evil behavior. The solution is always some form of abuse to stop the ************ he wrote. Quote a little girl, naturally bright, an unusually attractive and intelligent, had become the victim of this soul and body destroying habit. Which had brought on a serious nervous disease and threatened to destroy both body and mind before she had reached the age of 10 years. So you see what he's doing here. He's identifying that she's traumatized, but he's blaming it not on the assault, but on the fact that she's ************ that he assumes she's ************ as a result of the assault, right? As a physician, Dr Kellogg saw his job as not helping this girl with the trauma from her assault, or even treating the physical symptoms of her rape. His job was to stop her from ************. In cases like these, he had a standard procedure. Step one was that the parents needed to catch their child in the act. The best way to do that, he believed, was to wait until a few minutes after the child had gone to bed and sneak up on them, throw off their blankets and quote under some pretense. Forcibly examine the child's genitalia for evidence of sexual excitement. O again. He's brought in a rape victim and he tells her parents what you need to do is assault her in the night. The night? Yeah, yeah, ohh. Hard to define a worse. Thing to do in that situation, yeah. And yeah. Again, no. Oh, it's presumed ************ is the reason that they have are displaying trauma on top of or displaying their signs of their trauma on top of acknowledging but not understand. It's just so vile. Yeah, it's it's really bad and like to know that again whatever, if this is the majority or whatever, that it's mainstream enough that there are generations of parents. Yeah that ingested this like how like what the reverberations of that are and like down like in our culture and we're like where we're at like this is. Yeah, this is. These are the seeds of that, yeah. You you think about just how ****** ** things, how how clearly ****** ** both not just like the things revealed by me too, but sort of the the reaction to it and the lashing back against it, all of that. This is a part of that, right? Because a lot of the generations that created what are today is sort of like the conservative moral code we're raised in this stuff. Their grandparents were raised. This stuff, right? And they pass some of that down like, this is a piece of that horrible puzzle. It's pretty bad, right? So back on this subject of inspecting kids to make sure they're not ************ for children with penises, this was as easy as looking for an erection for children with vaginas, Kellogg wrote. Quote If the same course is pursued with girls under the same circumstances, the ******** will be found congested with the other genital organs, which will also be moist from increased secretion. So let's recap his advice to the appearance of 18 year old rape. Then was to throw off her covers by surprise in the dead of night and forcefully inspect her vagina. His prescription for the each parents of sex abuse victims was to abuse their children further. It's. Yeah, like what again? What's the that? What are you saying at that? But again, it's like they don't care about evidence because this really isn't about no improving their lives. The the real threat is. That it it's telling that, like, he's obviously disgusted at the ****** but his real horror is that the the young girl might. Take some sort of agency over her body. That's the actual thing that he's he's frightened of, right? Or boys. He didn't like boys taking it. He didn't believe people had he believed like, like, I think it was more like, like your body belongs to God, right? It's the 7th day. I mean, it's not just the 7th Day Adventist that believe this, but that's where he gets it. It's this idea that your body is not your own. And it is my job as a physician to stop you from abusing it. It's pretty bad. Yeah. And like, what a morbid responsibility to think you have. Yes, yeah. Pretty dark. And I should say that everything we've just outlined was the least invasive deterrent that John Harvey Kellogg suggested for the cases of ************. The goal here was to shame these kids by embarrassing them they didn't like. That was that was the actual goal. Was that like, if your parents catch you in the night, you will be ashamed and you won't do it anymore? He believed that what he one instance of what he called morally justified violation would deter most children. For those who soldiered on, his prescription grew more severe. Quote bandaging the parts has been practiced with success. Tying the hands is also successful in some cases, but this will not always succeed, for they will often contrive to continue the habit in other ways, as by working the limbs or lying upon the abdomen. Covering the organs with a cage has been practiced with entire success. Like many doctors of his era, Kellogg prescribed circumcision to his most severe patients. He was adamant that in these cases painkillers should not be prescribed. Quote the operation should be performed by a surgeon with without administering an anesthetic, as the brief pain attending the the operation will have a salutary effect upon the mind, especially if it be connected with the idea of punishment, as it may well be in some cases. The soreness which continues for several weeks interrupts the practice and if it had not previously become too firmly. Next, it may be forgotten and not resumed. Jesus, so surgery with yeah, genital surgery without anesthesia is your punishment for ************. I don't. We are now in the territory of, like, I think some CIA guys would be like, whoa, whoa, like, hold on. Someone get the Geneva Convention really quick. We've never read it, but I'm pretty sure this isn't this definitely is over the line, huh? Yeah. Damn. Yeah, yeah. It's so. And I'm just thinking and again, thou accepted that kind of treatment is and like how the pattern of inflict as much pain as possible. To solve the problem. Yep. Still exists to this day. It sure does, miles. Thematically. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah, it it sure does. Surgery was also prescribed for little girls, and I'm not gonna prevaricate here. The surgical option was what we now call female genital mutilation. They did not call it that. Then they called it the severing of the ******** and the labia menorah. Kellogg himself wrote in one of his case studies, quote a little girl about 10 years of age was brought to us by her father. Who came with his daughter with his daughter, to have her broken of the vile habit of self abuse into which she had fallen. Having read an early copy of this work, the father had speedily detected the habit, and had adopted every measure which he could devise to break his child of the destructive vice which she had acquired, but in vain it finally became necessary to resort to a surgical operation, by which it is hoped that she was permanently cured, as we have heard nothing to the contrary since and since, and as the remedy seemed to be effectual. So that is a father who is a fan of Kelly Kellogg's books reads them and becomes obsessed with the idea that his daughter might be ************ become convinced that she's masked, that she is ************ that he can't stop her, and after repeatedly assaulting her in the night, takes her to Doctor Kellogg to have her genitals mutilated. That that's what happened in that case study and that's a success. That is a success. And one of the good things that that Jezebel article notes is that as you can tell from that, like in that write up. Doctor Kellogg doesn't check in on the child, he says. It is. It is hoped she was permanently occurred because we haven't heard anything to the contrary, since he doesn't. My evidence is right. Yeah. It doesn't show him. He doesn't be like, yeah, looks like back in after four or five weeks after this surgery to see if it did anything. Like he doesn't do a follow. ******* horrific, man. It is. It's butchery. Yeah. The and it's he's treating it like it's some kind of tumor. Mm-hmm. It's like, yeah, yeah, I know. Just do that and then don't worry about it. Like, that's that's the problem. That should do it. Yeah, that'll that'll that'll take care of it. You're not. It's not. Again, it's not like you're saying it's butchery. It's not actual. There's nothing. There's nothing restorative or helpful or healthy. No. About ******* any of it. No. And that's because it's it's not really based in science. It's based on morality. He doesn't need to study how his patients do in the long term when he does stuff like this because he knows he's right. It would be a waste of time to confirm it. Many doctors in Kellogg's era prescribed female genital mutilation as a treatment for ************ but Kellogg pioneered another treatment, the application of carbolic acid to the sensitive parts of the sexual organs in order to burn them badly enough that all sensation was permanently deadened. Jesus Christ. I know this is this is in some ways maybe the worst one since Georgia Tan. Yeah, yeah, it's bad. It's real ******* bad. Didn't we do Georgia Tan with Sophia? We did. We're just scarring for 20D Fiance left and right. Yeah, we're we're gonna break him down. Yeah, yeah. Please associate my Stoner reality podcast with this right now. Put that check this show out. Nothing says like being high and watching TV like profoundly abusive practices towards probably 10s of thousands of children. You think that's that's the number. I mean not just they're not just talking Kellogg here when I I right. I really have no idea. But it was it was he was not the only doctor doing this, right. Like and will because this was you didn't want to talk about sex. Well, we'll never know how many little girls in this. In the United States were mutilated in this way. Alright, here's some ads. Mint Mobile offers premium wireless starting at just 15 bucks a month. And now for the plot twist. Nope, there isn't one meant mobile just has premium wireless from 15 bucks a month. There's no trapping you into a two year contract. You're opening the bill to find all these nuts fees. There's no luring you in with free subscriptions or streaming services that you'll forget to cancel and then be charged full price for none of that. For anyone who hates their phone Bill, Mint Mobile offers premium wireless for just $15.00 a month. Mint Mobile will give you the best rate whether you're buying one or for a family and at Mint family. Start at 2 lines. All plans come with unlimited talk and text, plus high speed data delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. You can use your own phone with any mint mobile plan and keep your same phone number along with all your existing contacts. Just switch to Mint mobile and get premium wireless service starting at 15 bucks a month. Get premium wireless service from just $15.00 a month and no one expected plot twists at mintmobile.com/behind. That's mintmobile.com/behind. Seriously, you'll make your wallet very happy at mintmobile.com. Dash behind now a word from our sponsor better help if you're having trouble stuck in your own head, focusing on problems dealing with depression, or just, you know can't seem to get yourself out of a rut, you may want to try therapy, and better help makes it very easy to get therapy that works with your lifestyle and your schedule. A therapist can help you become a better problem solver, which can make it easier to accomplish your goals, no matter how big or small they happen to be. So if you're thinking of giving therapy a try, better help is a great. Option it's convenient, accessible, affordable, and it is entirely online. You can get matched with a therapist after filling out a brief survey, and if the therapist that you get matched with doesn't wind up working out, you can switch therapists at any time. When you want to be a better problem solver, therapy can get you there. Visit betterhelp.com behind today to get 10% off your first month. That's better helpp.com/behind betterhelp.com/behind. Hey, Robert Evans here. It's been like two months since I got LASIK laser eye surgery and my vision is still 2020. So many things about my daily life has changed. I don't have to worry about putting on a mask and my glasses fogging up and have to take out contacts at night or put them in the day. I don't have to, like, worry all the time when I'm traveling. Like, how many contacts do I have by go swimming at the lake during the summer? Something I like to do, go to the beach or whatever. I don't have to worry about losing a contact or, you know, bringing swimming glasses or something. With me, everything is just easier and getting it done. It's easy too, you know. I went in, I had my consultation, they told me I was a good candidate and then I went back in couple of days later about it being about a boom. You know, my eyes were perfect. So LASIK Plus is a leader in laser vision correction in the United States. They have over 20 years in the industry and more than two million treatments performed. If you want to start your LASIK plus journey, you can get $1000 off when treated in September. That's 500 per eye. So visitmylasikoffer.com to schedule your free consultation. Now. We're back. Hey, we're back now. I have noted that Kellogg was not alone in using female genital mutilation as a treatment for ************ here. But I should also note that a huge number of medical professionals railed against the practice, and that even in Kellogg's day, a significant amount of legitimate, documented scientific literature pointed to it being a wildly harmful procedure. This was not uncommon. It was also not universally agreed upon as healthy in 1868, when John Harvey was just 15-A gynecologist. Named Charles Rest, wrote a book called Lectures on The Diseases of Women. In it he recalled the story of a 53 year old woman who went to a surgeon for anal fissures. The surgeon, in this case, without getting her permission or asking it all, also removed her ******** West. In 1868, a male gynecologist condemned this behavior and wrote. It will, I imagine, scarcely be contended that proceedings which we should reprobate if practiced on the one sex, change their character when perpetrated on the other. And he's saying. If they'd cut a guy's **** off, right, you wouldn't be OK with this. Why is it OK when it's a ********? So. There were people who recognized. There were, yeah, male doctors who recognized how horrible this was. It was not. Just the sign of the types you know, right? I mean, like, So what was it take like, did the general public need doctors like that to, like, even stimulate that kind of thinking for them to be like, yeah, hold on. Maybe that is bad. Or do you think there were people who I'm sure that I'm hearing that were also like, what the ****? I'm sure there were. I'm sure there were plenty of even, like, poor illiterate dudes who are like, I'm not gonna let you cut my, my, my kids up, like, **** you. Like, stay the hell away. Yeah, I'm certain that happened. But obviously those people aren't writing books and those people aren't giving lectures that made sure. Schools like John Harvey Kellogg, you know? John Harvey Kellogg kept up his devotion to Clitorectomy is his entire medical career, even after 1912, when mainstream medical textbooks began to condemn the practice as not just completely ineffective, but liable to cause the kind of mental health problems that James Harvey Kellogg blamed on ************. The fact that he was wrong about a great deal of very important things had no negative impact on John Harvey's sanitarium. This was unfortunately due partly to the fact that he was right about an awful lot. Kellogg was a major early proponent of exercise, which at the time was. Not widely recognized as beneficial, he was also way ahead of the curve on gut bacteria. Medical scientists are only really now starting to get a handle on how important gut bacteria are to your overall health health. But in lately, in the late 1800s and early 1900s, Doctor John Harvey Kellogg understood. You know how big a deal it was. He partnered with Enrie to say, I'm probably some guy, some French ******* guy, a scientist at the Pasteur Laboratory in France, and together they would study acidophilus, proving he understood how to do actual. Rigorous empirical science. When he wanted to, Kellogg and his partner found that people whose guts had acidophilus suffered far fewer digestive diseases than people who did not. So he was capable of doing science. Yeah, in that very strict way, though. Yeah, alright. If all of these people got it, then that's that means that, you know what I mean? If they're all ************ then that's it. That's a sign. That's all I need. And then, you know, it's like the clock is broken clocks, right. And then Kellogg became a huge advocate of yogurt health benefits. He became rightfully convinced that the bacteria in yogurt protected against disease and believed those bacteria, quote, should be planted where they are most needed and may render the most effective. This, of course, meant eating yogurt, but that isn't all it meant miles. And you know the guy. This was right. You know what? He's this. He's gonna put it up there. **** anemas. Yep. Yeah, yeah, Yep. Kellogg had been convinced for years that auto intoxication, which we discussed last episode, was behind behind all bowel disease. Once he realized that yogurt could populate the gut with good bacteria. He saw yogurt as a cure for auto intoxication. And the best way of administering it would be via enema. He would use his enema machine for this whole quart quarts of water 1st, and then gigantic quantities of yogurt up the ***. Second, wow. And I mean, at least he had evidence that that was. There's a lot more evidence that shooting yogurt up your *** is good than anything. Yeah, than anything he's ever done in his life. But that's where we're at with this ******* guy and his patented machine, obviously, because that did shooting stuff up his own *** machine, which absolutely wasn't a kink. No, not at all. And this is custom custom machinery or not. Maybe just repurposed industrial. Machinery, yeah, the machine that he designed to shoot yogurt up his own *** because he started every single day with a regular enema and a yogurt enema if you're ever expensive. I mean, it was really wasted. He runs the enema company, you know? I know, but I mean, like, how much yogurt are you going through a day there? I think less than the water. Right. I mean, like, yeah, yeah, gallons of yogurt either. I mean, maybe that's a flex. If you're saying, like, oh, I don't even use water, then I could shoot gallons of yogurt up my *** everyday. I literally do 1/2 barrel a day. Yeah. As a rule, if you're ever wondering what Doctor James John Harvey Kellogg was getting up to on a specific Day in History, you would be safe in guessing, shooting a variety of liquids up his own ***. Gut problems were at least as big a part of the sanitarium treatments as abuse of sexual procedures, McGill University writes. Quote, There were other options for those who didn't see the appeal of being pumped. All of yogurt through their rear portals, the sands Mechano therapy department had come up with the vibratory chair. This was a spring loaded device that shook the patient violently to stimulate intestinal peristalsis. Once the toxins had been dislodged in this fashion, headaches and backaches would disappear and according to Kellogg, the body would be filled with a healthy dose of oxygen and the sands coffers would be filled with a heavy dose of money. The sand off also offered a variety of baths, cold, hot and electrified if this did not shock the disease out of the unfortunate. Then Doctor Kellogg resorted to surgery, removing the offending part of the intestine. Kellogg carried out over 22,000 such operations during his career, with a remarkably low complicate complication rate. Probably not necessary procedures, but at least he was good at it. Jesus, what? Shaka five. Yeah, shake, shake **** out of him. Oh, and what was that based off of? People who were seeking work did a lot of off road bugging had were really healthy because they were just just had the rockiest seed in town. What the **** is that? Yeah, I have no idea what that one was based on. They were just trying **** past a certain point, you know? Right, like **** it. John Harvey Kellogg's pioneering work played a major role in popularizing yogurt within the Western Diet. He was also one of the first major advocates of soy milk, which he found was an even better way to propagate acidophilus than yogurt. And this brings us to doctor Kellogg's most famous and popular contribution to mankind's breakfast. John Harvey Kellogg had a brother, Will Keith, who for a time worked with him at the sanitarium. Together, the two spent years developing foods meant to replace meat in the diet. They created a number of different nut butters, experimented with soy. And looked for more ways to work whole grains into the American diet. Doctor Kellogg was a big fan of of Zweiback, a twice baked biscuit that he felt felt helped people purge toxins. But Zweiback was so hard that at one point an elderly patient at the sanitarium broke her dentures on it and threatened to sue him if he didn't pay for them. John Harvey didn't want to pay for more old people's dentures, so he and his brother will set to work developing a way to pound grain and fiber into their patients without damaging their teeth. Through an incredibly boring process of trial and error, they arrived. That cornflakes, McGill writes. Quote. John Harvey was only interested in the health properties of the new products. Could these serve as an antidote to the passions stirred up by meat? But Will was a businessman and was bent on commercialization. Now I found a write up on encyclopedia.com that actually gives quite a good explanation of the fallout that resulted between John Harvey and his brother Will, who seems like the only sort of decent member of the family. John Harvey absolutely comes out as. The ******* in this relationship. Quote. Will, often known as WK Kellogg, never had a very good relationship with his older brother. According to Benjamin Klein, Hunnicutt in Kellogg's 6 hour day famous for his energy and untiring work, John Harvey cultivated the image of a Superman dictating the secretaries for 8 hours at a stretch, performing operations through the night, conspicuously working at meals and on trains. John Harvey expected WK to live up to this myth and berated him for being lazy if he stole some time at home. When post began making millions of dollars through aggressive advertising and free giveaways, WK wanted to develop a similar large scale advertising campaign. When his elder brother said no, WK began. Looking for ways to take control of the company because of his notorious frugality, John Harvey had convinced employees to accept lower pay, along with stock and the cereal business, now known as the Kellogg Toasted Cornflake Company. WK secured financing from a wealthy St. Louis insurance broker and quietly began buying stock. By 1906, he controlled the company. So they make a cereal company together, but will does not get along with his brother is one thing, his brother just shaming him constantly for like, having a life outside of making cereal. What do you mean? Oh, I heard you used pepper the other day. You sick ****. Well, and will is seeing, like other cereal companies have started to develop at this point. And will is seeing them advertise and seeing them add sugar. And he's like, we can make more money if we do this. And John Harvey Kellogg is like, no, it's about keeping people boring, right? And yeah, so will buys up the company in secret. Takes it over from his brother. The break between John and Wilt came in part because will wanted to add sugar to cornflakes so human beings would enjoy it. John Harvey thought sugar would make people come, and he violently opposed the idea. It is hard to overstate what a huge deal cornflakes were for society. I found an NPR interview with an author who wrote a book about the Kellogg Brothers, a guy named Markel, and he does a good job of explaining just why this was revolutionary. Quote Making Breakfast was an ordeal. So even if you made porridge or mush, these whole grains took hours to melt. Down and then make into a mush or a soft form. And so these poor mothers were getting up very early and they were probably taking care of their children all night. They had to start a wood burning fire. And so making breakfast was a great ordeal. But John Harvey Kellogg invented them for the involuted people who came to his Battle Creek Sanitarium. It was his little brother will, who realized, you know, there are a lot more people who are healthy and just want a convenient, tasty snack than those who are ill and eat it need an easily digestible breakfast. So we added a little sugar, a little salt to corn flakes. And it just took the world by storm in 1906 because you could simply pour breakfast. Out of a box. Even Dad could make breakfast now. Even Dad, who's busy suspecting you of jerking off. Yeah, even dad who's tired from breaking into your room at night, who doesn't know how to break his own cycles of abuse and mistreatment. Can you please pour some corn flakes? Jesus. But yeah, holy ****. That's so ******* wild. You know it. It's something like that just creates all this cover for the name. Now. It it's amazing. I I don't know if anyone else we've ever covered with this incredible mix of outrageous harm done to society and also helped create things. Every single person listening to this and Joyce, right, like no matter who you are, he either created or helped popularize something that that you use regularly that you ingest. Regularly. And that's like, you can't say that about Hitler. Yeah. Like, overall, right. It doesn't matter. Like, it's the the brand is just, yeah, at a certain point it it's just a brand. And then you look back and like, I don't know, Kelly was genital mutilation. No, that's serial. They're cereal. No, they're not cutting up people because there's even like that movie The road to wellville. Yeah. In the 90s, that's like such a. Like, I remember thinking out, didn't they? Yeah, they left a lot of part out of that whole ******* thing. Were really weird. They didn't include him abusing children. Yeah, yeah, it's just but yeah, but that's. I think, yeah, we just have this blind spot for certain **** at at times. Or maybe they did seem like we can't do that. It doesn't matter because nobody knows about podcasts yet. We're someone will take the time to research this and it's, you know, it's *******. It wasn't easy to research this. It's not easy to read it to you. Nobody on the call was having a good time during the portion of the episode. I expect a decent number of listeners, for perfectly reasonable reason, will be like, I can't, I can't do this, you know? Yeah, I can't. I can't do this. Like, whereas a funny video of a funny movie about serial, man. Right. It's an issue with that. Right. And thus things get whitewashed. Mm-hmm. And it has, you know, modern consequences. Right now, there's a bunch of bills being debated, and I think some even being passed, that will allow doctors to, like, act with their conscience and refuse to treat LGBT people. And it's the same thing. The idea that medicine and morality can be tied, they shouldn't be exactly like morality in medicine means doing your best to alleviate and treat the the symptoms and and and and illnesses of your patients. Right. Like morality and medicine. Means nothing more than doing your best to ensure the health of the people who come to you for treatment. Your personal opinion shouldn't ******* matter. Yeah, that's what being a doctor is. Well, but sometimes you're like, oh, I'm a monster that needed to use the occupation of doctorally. Yeah, I'm a monster. I'm just smart. And I'm so cunning that I realized this is the profession I need to get in proximity of people to do what I do. I think when that guy wrote those people first do no harm. What he meant was cut up little boys and girls. Right. Yeah. Uh, yeah, yeah. And again, the reverberations just in our culture, you know, it's like everywhere, this same mentality of, yeah, punishing for getting close to being liberated or understanding something or something that's counter to what has been biblically preached and how that leads to just the absolute dehumanization of people. And like, we're still, it echoes in the same way as like, you know, slavery does in certain ways of my religious white supremacy that if your medicine is was entrenched in religion. Like this? On some level, that's not going to still be, you know, part of the culture we're having a reckoning with. Yep. But I mean, yogurt. Yeah, yogurt. Pretty. I need to know how much and if there was like if he was he was he cutting the yogurt? Done is pure yoga. But was he cutting that ****? You know, was he pouring in some cocaine with the yogurt to wear? Yeah, yeah, stepping on. Hey, Doc, I heard you're stepping on my yogurt with buttermilk. Ohh so. Yeah, there were a number of other significant positive developments that Doctor Kellogg and his sanitarium played a major role in. They were probably the first major business to make calorie counts and nutrition facts available for all of the meals they served. This would be decades before the practice was mandated in the United States. John Harvey was also a philanthropist. In 1893, he decided to expand his operation into Chicago. The city police chief advised him to set up his new sanitarium in quote, the dirtiest and Wickedest Place in the city. So he built it in a slum that was heavily. Populated by impoverished black people. But the satellite facility included a free pharmacy and clinic, free baths, free laundry and evening school for Chinese language students and a visiting nurses service. His cafeteria offered a penny lunch service and fed an estimated 500 to 600 people a day. So it wasn't all. Mutilation. You know, free clinics are good. Free? Well, I don't know. His free clinic is a mixed bag. Yeah, free laundry's good, right? Yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure he had very evolved ideas on. Yeah. Biracial. Ohh, miles mixing. We're getting there. Yeah. I was gonna say, I can only imagine what this ******* guy is doing, being like, I'm gonna service this community like we're getting there, buddy. No. Success of the sanitarium swelled Dr Kellogg's ego and led to conflicts with his church. By some accounts, his break with Ellen White in the 7th Day Adventist faith started when he caught sister weight eating a piece of fried chicken. The conflicts between the two of them went on for years and are more complex than I can easily summarize. But a lot of it has to do with Kellogg's occasional embrace of the scientific method. The bottom line is that he allowed his scientific beliefs to sometimes contradict the teachings of his prophet. He was accused of blasphemy and disfellowshipped in 1907. One of the beliefs that got Kellogg and trouble was a partial acceptance of evolutionary theory. Unfortunately for everyone, John Harvey's embrace of evolution was mainly a corollary to his embrace of eugenics from a wonderful and comprehensive write up in Doctor Kellogg's own local paper, the Battle Creek Enquirer. Quote. Kellogg's supportive eugenics was tepid to begin with, likely due to Eugenics's ties to Darwinism and his connection to the 7th Day Adventist Church, which teaches a literal interpretation of the 6th day six day creation story in Genesis. It wasn't until his break from the church in 1907 that he began to truly embrace the ideas. Kellogg combined his belief in eugenics, his well the improvement of human functioning by improvement of living conditions, to come up with his own brand of eugenics he referred to as race betterment. The things he had advocated, avoided through his biologic living meat and alcohol were deemed race poisons. Race? That's some Nazi **** yeah, race some bettermann poisons. Race betterment. Race poisons. Ah, of course, you know, that's what the **** you know, I mean, like, it's so honestly, is he one of the. I'll, I'll let you go on, but I'm like, I wonder deep down, we would have been finding it. This ************ died. Like we would have been. Absolutely. I mean, somebody was going to give us somebody was somebody was gonna figure out cereal. Yeah, he figured out the acidophilus **** with some other dude. Yeah, you know what I mean? I would have figured that out with that. Like, I'm like, we didn't need him. You know what this is such like. You know. It just it **** you know? You're not special. You sick getting into the fact that he basically created the cultural space for guys like Doctor Phil and Doctor Oz too. The celebrity doctors. He's a big part of that as well, you know? Not the only all that. All that. All bad. All bad. Race betterment. Race betterment. Race poisons. Race poison. Ohh, thank you. White savior, please. Oh yeah, baby. Tell the save these people now. Yeah, it's interesting that that last line I just read was basically word for word. Nazi propaganda because Doctor Kellogg was not a Nazi. Now, the precise nature of his racism is fascinating to puzzle out. He is a. We can talk a bit about the kind of racist that he is. He's an interesting kind of racist. I would say that. Racist, yeah, yeah. Doctor Brian Wilson, who wrote the book that was a major source for part one seemed to have frame, seems to have framed his bigotry as a natural evolution of his theories on biologic living. He saw selective breeding as the same thing as avoiding meat and ************. Quote overall, Kellogg was worried about the ultimate fate of the human race, Kellogg believed. Quote if we continue on with our bad habits. You would eventually become extinct, potentially. So there was this larger issue of the human race. But if you drill down a little bit more in his public statements, it's pretty clear that he was really concerned about the white race. John Harvey agreed with Teddy Roosevelt that white people were committing race suicide by allowing inferior races into the country. These races included black and Asian people, but also people from the bad parts of Europe like Italy. In the 19 teens, Kellogg melded a warning against race mixing into his theory of biologic living. The Battle Creek Enquirer notes that his beliefs on eugenics were often at odds with how he ran his business and personal life, which is part of why I think he's an interesting kind of racist quote. He rejected segregation of blacks at the at his sanitarium, where African American doctors and nurses were trained. He and his wife, Ella Eaton, fostered more than 40 children, among them African Americans and children from Latin America. Kellogg took great care of Sojourner Truth during her visits to the sanitarium, reportedly grafting some of his own skin to her leg to treat an ulcer. And he personally invited Booker T Washington to visit as a guest in 1910. So, again, that's not how do we ever see some of that skin graph? You know, I mean, that's no idea. Yeah, definitely. You know, some pre Internet ****. You could be like, you know, I yeah, I I like your skin to Sojourner Truth so I'm not. I literally put my skin on her. I took my skin and donated it. I mean, the point when I say he's not a Nazi isn't to like. Whitewash him at all is to say that, like, you can be extremely racist and not be a Nazi. Like Teddy Roosevelt. Not a Nazi monster, you know? Right. It's just, well, because it's not. Yeah. It it's because the hate is warped in this weird. Yes. You know. Betterment. Exactly. Your bedroom. Oh no, I'm not saying I'm saying it's racist. That I'm saying you're flawed to begin with. And then what I'm saying is I'm hopeful for you. Degenerate human. We can make your race better. Not as good at white people. Better as opposed to the Nazis who say we should exterminate your, I mean, if you guys would stay off that race poison. And I think that's what that other facility is for, even though he's running it, he's observing and collecting data, and I'm sure he is. Yeah, that's for him. It's not really. It says nothing charitable about it. Like there's clearly something that, yes, he'll be like, well, it's fine outwardly that it's a help, but really, I'm here to make observations that reinforce my racist worldview. Yes, yes. And yeah, it's one of those things. Yes, he he was a he was a monstrous bigot, he wrote in 1902. Quote the intellectual inferiority of the ***** male to the European male is universally acknowledged. This guy who knew Booker T Washington. Yeah, you know what? You know what? You know who Booker T Washington was smarter than? The guy who thought sleep was poison. Yeah, right. Seriously, I mean, this is. But like, it's also like the, you know, dawn of like this insidious sort of, you know, well, loiter. Be like deracialized concern troll racism. Yes. Yeah, because it's still the same thing. You know, at the end of the day, even though you're not espousing violence to begin with, it to to when you start from there, the premise is violent. And that's where it's just like, come like, really though, the Race Betterment Foundation. Come on. Yeah, the Race Betterment foundation. Yeah, now, under Kellogg and under his race Betterment Foundation, the sanitarium would actually play host to three international eugenics conferences. At these, Kellogg advocated for eugenics registry nationwide that could be used to establish what he called racial thoroughbreds. He advised people to consult medical records to determine their racial makeup before getting married. And like all eugenicists, he supported the sterilization of defectives, including criminals. Under his advisement, the Michigan State. Legislature passed Public Act 34, which authorized the sterilization of, quote, defective persons. Under this law, at least 3800 people were involuntarily sterilized. When, I guess when that law was repealed. Miles probably not till like the last 30 years out of 1974, right. Exactly. I guess we did better than you thought. Yeah. What the? Yeah, cause it's so. I mean again, that's another thing that look how long. Yeah. ******* takes like something that's so on its face. Disgusting. That it's like, yeah, Oh yeah, we should probably stop doing that. Yeah. But then also thinking of how, like, even, you know, women and especially women of color, the pain thresholds are not taken seriously by doctors to this day. And you think, Ohh, wow, because we were a ******* yippee being with doctor corn **** over here, doctor corn ****. I mean, I don't. I I'm not enough. I'm not an expert on Doctor Kellogg, so I don't know if he ever, like, we talked a little earlier. He definitely thought that if you were giving someone, like, a surgery to stop ************. Shouldn't use pain medication because it it's a a healthy punishment? Hmm. I I wonder if maybe some of the belief that you don't need to give black people the same amount of painkillers was rooted in that idea too. That idea of like, well, if they're unhealthy, it's their fault, and we should correct them by not I I have no idea. Or it's just a habit that becomes like culture, a cultural norm within medicine with no examination of what that actually means. It's like this. Yeah. It's why it takes people so long to ******* like, stop for a second. Look at your patterns and be like, oh **** where's this from? What does this mean? Yeah. And but so many people are unwilling to do that. Yep. I mean, it's one of those things. And it it gets so deeply cause, like, black doctors under prescribed painkillers to black patients just like black cops when they do these, like, they'll have these games where, like, you have to shoot someone who there's like a bunch of people flash on the screen. Some have guns, some don't. Black cops are more likely to shoot unarmed black people, like, than they are unarmed white people. It's just like, that's how it works. Is mental colonization and internalized white supremacy. You know what I mean? That's what it does. It's it's that's how ******* pervasive it is. Yep, Yep. The conference is that Doctor Kellogg held were bizarre affairs. 1 featured Booker T Washington, who gave a speech on the ***** race to a white audience where he begged for equal treatment and argued for the common humanity of all men at the same event. John Harvey Kellogg said this if the human race is degenerating, then we should know it. We should let the people know, and we should see what ought to be done about it. OK. This isn't climate change, ************. Yeah, no, I bet it wouldn't have believed in climate change. Wait, he said the other thing before then? Yeah, he said. He said that. Before Booker T, Washington got on. So Booker T goes on his friend yeah. And gives a a speech that seems to have mostly been about being like, hey, if you, if you like, help black people out. We we can contribute to society. We're Americans, too. Like, we want to, we want to contribute to the country. But we need to, like, not be as as horribly abused by the system as we currently are. Right. Because y'all aren't past slavery still. So we're still getting this version. Yeah. And that was the same thing where, I mean, I guess he got booked by Kellogg, but Kellogg went on to talk about, like, we have to talk about racial degeneracy and race poison and race mixing. Right. It's weird. He's like I said, he's a weird kind of racist, but he's definitely a racist. Yeah, because he's just all over the place. But he's just like because he's just, he's a concern troll racist. He's A and he's. Yeah, there's some ways. I know that you mentioned that where he is a lot like the modern racist to be like, well, no, I have look at my black friend. Like, I'm advocating against white genocide, but I have. I'm friends with Ali Alexander. Yeah, like, yeah, maybe. Maybe he was just the first really post Nazi white supremacist. Yeah, the first guy to figure it out. Like, no, no, you can't do all that. You can't just look at that. Yeah, see, maybe nice about it. Yeah. You gotta be like, no. Well, all all I'm saying is maybe the white race is degenerating. OK? And maybe we need to look at that and then maybe then we can figure out what to do about that. I don't know. I don't know. I'm just saying I don't know. What do I know? I'm a *******. Just, I mean, demonic ****. And I will say there were other eugenicists in this. Were not Nazis who were saying similar things. So I'm not gonna say Kellogg was the first person, but he definitely like, now that the more I think about it, the more his racism feels extremely modern to me. If that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. The first race Betterment conference, which is what these these events were called, included a better babies contest where 5000 children were inspected, measured and judged based on their purported racial characteristics. 8 Someone listening is going to have a great grandparent who won the Better Babies contest, and I'm excited to learn that. Like a ******* Westminster Abbey dog show. Yeah. It seems like it like it's, you know what it sounds kind of like is that I think you should leave sketch where they have the baby of the year award, yeah. But you're saying they're using. But it was all kinds of different races of babies. I yeah. Where they were like, assessed based on. Yeah. How well they right. So like a dog show. So there's three of this breed of human being based on my physiognomy chart here. This is what this. He's got the perfect Nordic lips. Yeah. Yeah. What the ****? Yeah. The conference was a huge success, which convinced Kellogg that he needed to host the next one on the West Coast because eugenics didn't really catch on on the West Coast. The same way it did on the East Coast, which I guess is good for the West Coast. Yeah, congratulations, California. We just have, yeah. Again, that's the bar is racism on the bar is low. It's a little bit different here. It's still, you know, same brand, it's a different style. The conference was hosted in San Francisco, and it was part of a wider effort by Kellogg to inculcate his eugenic ideas throughout the nation. As time went on, he grew on into more of a hardliner, increasingly committed to sterilization and segregation. Gradually, he fell behind the times, due largely to a little thing called World War Two coming face to face with Nazi ideology. Which was inspired in large part by American eugenicists like Kellogg, led to a collapse in American support for eugenics. You see the Nazis doing Nazi **** saying the same thing American eugenicists are, and suddenly a lot of people are like, ohh, you know what? Wait, maybe this is bad. Wait, wait a second. Hey, man. This you, this you. It looks like this ends with people in ovens. Yeah. Oh my God. I should reconsider something. Maybe if we just look around our grace. Is deteriorating, and maybe there is a problem we need a solution to. I'm just saying. Hmm, you know what I mean? Seems like it inevitably leads there. Now, Harvey Kellogg was also a very old man by the outbreak of the war, but Naziism did not change his opinions on eugenics whatsoever. He grew only more convinced that Christian civilization was at risk and that the white races were on the edge of genocide. He wrote in 1942 that he believed God quote working through eugenics. And the marvelous germ plasm, which is like sperm, may save the race and even improve it. So he had faith that eventually people would figure out how to save the white race. Kellogg was in the middle of planning capitalism. He was in the middle of planning his fourth race Betterment Conference, set for June of 1942, when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor. The conference was cancelled, and so too was John Harvey Kellogg's own life. He died on December 14th in Battle Creek, MI. He died, of course, a virgin, despite being married for more than 40 years. John Harvey Kellogg bragged that he had never actually consummated his marriage. So if I had to pick one purely good thing about his life, I'd say at least he didn't breed. Hmm. Ohh true. But **** if he didn't completely **** ** he ****** ** generations of people. Yeah, kids generates amazing. One of the worst people we've ever talked about. When is there like, you know, some kind of reckoning? Do they just say, oh, it's it's actually named after his brother. You could go to any grocery store in the country and see his name all over the ******* place. You know what I mean? I guess you can also think that his brother hated him and he would have hated the fact that those are now filled with sugar. So I guess that's good. Like, John Harvey Kellogg would be horrifically disgusted by the fact that his legacy is now incredibly sugar like candy for children to eat in the morning and and. ************ is through the roof. And if ************ is at an all time high, if he thinks sleeping comfortably and eating spite all I'm. You know what? Tonight I'm gonna eat the hottest ******* thing I can imagine. Masturbate on the most comfortable bed. Ohhh yeah, all of you at home come and Curry in order to really, really fully shame Doctor James Hart. Break his. Break his undead spirit. Eat spice. Come hard. You know, that's a T-shirt. His face. You're welcome. Nice come. Hard. Exactly. Big middle finger to him. Could we put *** on a T-shirt? Sophie? That's a loaded question. Yeah, loads. I feel like I feel like we've done worse already so why not I I think we do it. Eat spice come hard John Hart. Exactly. And now and now because I think that's the next thing is come is an accepted thing on a shirt you wear in public to be that's how the work that's our little active rebellion against John Harvey Kellogg. If I had a time machine top of my list now would be to get a like to to archive a bunch of Redtube videos along with information and how many hundreds of millions of views that it gets in a year and just present. Those both like, hey, John, in the future, more people than exist on the world right now are ************ on just this one website. Buddy. You lose that war and I would bring a ******* like a a military footlocker filled with sex toys. Yeah, yeah, just I'd be like first of all, dude, this thing this is this is a tanga. You ever heard of a tanga? Alright, so this is from Japan. You might remember them from Pearl Harbor. So they got. So this is some really sick technology. This is another one. You can use your app. Hold on. I've even shown you the VR goggles yet, ************. Like, who knows? It's just, yeah, this is a plastic **** that people make just to have sex with. You can buy it, you can, but there's two different stores that sell them within walking distance of my house. You can, if you want to make a mold of your genitals and have it replicated. Yeah, millions of times. Like a ******* you know, like the Gutenberg press. You know what people did with the Bible in your day? Yeah, they they do it with genitals in the future. People are so ***** John Harvey, that when a boat got stuck in the Suez Canal, you, you know, the Suez Canal hobby, it's you in your day. When a boat got stuck in it, people immediately turned the boat in the ****. Yeah, exactly. Just straight off the bat. John Harvey. That's how it works. Yeah, it's funny. When you search Kellogg's for the Wikipedia page, it's will Keith Kellogg. Who? Which makes sense because he did steal the idea. But then you they can't avoid in the first sentence that it is his brother John Harvey Kellogg became blah blah blah blah, blah. So yeah what a ******* yeah you know it's like everything. There's so many corporate like just like every ******* bank you know has had to deal in slave money but we're just and how everybody bank at some point supported the Nazis pretty yeah. Just like what do you know like this is where we're at the they can be like I don't know it's a long look it's just a serial now but yeah. I mean in some ways you could you could say that Kellogg's is is legacy is less ****** ** than the banks. Because there was a split over like like the reason the Kellogg's company became what it is is his brother ******* hated him, right? So that's good. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, yeah. What's JP Morgan? What's his? What's John Pierpont Morgan's brother like? Oh, I don't know, but did he have a brother? Morgan Junior was a big part of the fascist attempt to overthrow, right? FDR. The business plot, huh? Yeah. What a time. What a time. Good times. We're happy all. And again, you have a bunch of people in their own way. Found their own attempt to try and steer the whatever the ******* course was of this country based on what these ****** ** ideas they had. Yep. Yikes. A lesson to be learned perhaps? Yep. You know miles? Hmm. I guess if I had one last request for our listeners. I know a few of you are great artists. Hmm. What we could really use is some just filthy John Harvey Kellogg themed ***********. Just absolutely depraved and by depraved, I mean him having missionary style sex with the woman he was married to for decades. Yeah, it's him. It's him ************ by candlelight. Yeah, John Harvey Kellogg ************ by candlelight too. I don't know. The Crucible. What a ******* *******. You've done it again, Robert. You've done it again. How you doing, miles? Feeling OK? How you doing, Sophie? I hate my life. This was a rough one, right? This was a real bad one. Yeah. I mean, but, you know, this is again, this is these are the things I think that's the benefit of this show, you know, like. If you have to really look back and know how bad **** was truly to be able to give yourself some context, you know what I mean. And to know, like, how people move and operate in the social forces they use to justify and popularize their methods. Yep, and I don't know, some great news just on that front. Today, for the first time, Gallup poll just reviewed US membership in a church, synagogue or mosque has fallen below 50%. Only 36% of millennials belong to a church. And of course, the drop in religious affiliation is directly correlated with the rise in support for same sex marriage. And one has to assume the rise in support for ************. Yeah, exactly. We're a generation come. Yeah, generation come. That's the T-shirt John Harvey Kellogg ************ to the Crucible by candlelight with generation come right on, that's busy. Or just some dog tags. Income. Let's make it happen, people. All right, well. Miles, you've got any puggles? Ohh man, just check out the podcast dailies like Geist. And also look, if if you want something that isn't tied to maybe the news and politics, check out the other podcasts. 420 day fiance. We're talking about 90 day fiance, but you know, like high. So yeah, just chill with Sophie Alexandra. You know, one of the one of your your fan favorites? Yeah, we we love Sophia. I'm glad that it was you and not her on yet. Another horrible child abuse episode, because that would have been a war crime. Yeah, absolutely. All right, well, we're done with the episode. Go stare blankly into the setting sun and try not to think about. All of the horrible things that John Harvey Kellogg did in the name of medicine. Pete Spice come hard, eat spice, come hard. Hello, I'm Erica Kelly from the podcast Southern Fried True crime and if you want to go from podcast fan to podcast host, do what I did and check out spreaker from iheart. I was working in accounting and hating it. Then after just 18 months of podcasting with Speaker, I was able to quit my day job. Follow your podcasting dreams, let's break our handle the hosting. Creation, distribution, and monetization of your podcast. Go to spreaker.com. That's spreaker.com. 1980s and 90s a psychopath terrorized the country of Belgium. A serial killer and kidnapper was abducting children in the bright light of day. From Tenderfoot TV and iHeartRadio, this is La Monstra, a story of abomination and conspiracy. The story about the man who simply become known as. La monster. Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This podcast is brought to youbyjbl.com now. Our friends at JBL understand the power of tuning in to the real U. From true wireless headphones to pulsing party boxes, you can dare to vibe your way with the wide and colorful range of JBL products. Catch your favorite podcasts like this one unfiltered the JBL podcast on the Go. Play your music. Never wherever and live in the moment, your moment. Be unfiltered at jbl.com.