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Hello, I'm Erica Kelly from the podcast Southern Fried True crime, and if you want to go from podcast fan to podcast host, do what I did and check out spreaker from iheart. I was working in accounting and hating it. Then after just 18 months of podcasting with Spreaker, I was able to quit my day job. Follow your podcasting dreams, let's break or handle the hosting, creation, distribution, and monetization of your podcast. Go to spreaker.com. That's spreaker.com. In the 1980s and 90s, a psychopath terrorized the country of Belgium. A serial killer and kidnapper was abducting children in the bright light of day. From Tenderfoot TV in iHeartRadio this is La Monstra, a story of abomination and conspiracy. The story about the man who's simply become known as. Lamaster. Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This podcast is brought to youbyjbl.com now. Our friends at JBL understand the power of tuning in to the real U. From true wireless headphones to pulsing party boxes, you can dare to vibe your way with the wide and colorful range of JBL products. Catch your favorite podcasts like this one unfiltered the JBL podcast on the Go. Play your music. Never wherever and live in the moment, your moment. Be unfiltered at jbl.com. What's eating my bags of decks? I'm Robert Evans. This is behind the ******** the show where I talk about terrible people and try new intros. This one was inspired by something Sophie said minutes before I started this episode, when Jamie Loftus expressed a concern that someone would hear her chewing and would attack her for it on the Internet, and Sophie said that person could eat a bag of ***** which is why the show opened that way. Like the context, Robert. You're so good at providing historical context for everything, including things that just happened. It's necessary. Everyone needs to understand why, why I say the things that I say, and why I opened this show with what's eating my bags of *****. I understand why people are bothered by an occasional eating sound on mic, but I encourage everyone to remember that this is entertainment that is free, and if you don't like it, you can simply go pay for something, or eat a bag of ***** according to some. Or eat a bag of ***** eat a bag of ***** and then other people. You'll hear you chewing. I am doing my best though. No, I do. I do have. I do have a lot of sympathy for people who just like for whatever reason, can't stand the sound of other people chewing because it it bugs me sometimes with certain people. Like I can't stand the sound of other people eating cereal. It drives me ******* nuts. Other foods I don't have an issue with. But cereal is not something you can control, and so I don't judge people for having issues with it, sympathetic to the plight, but it is an occasional part of life. It is an occasional part of life. People eat food and that's just the world in which we live. And one day robots will do all of our eating for us. But that day is not today. Let's start talking about Eddie Bernays again. So at the start of our last episode, I made the case that Edward Bernays deserves to be considered one of America's founding fathers. He invented the tactics of publicity stunts and PR flacks masquerading as journalists that so dominate our national discourse. Today you can look at that Vogue article about Asma al-Assad, which we discussed in the Bashar al-Assad episode, is just one of many descendants of Eddie Bernays's tactics. He got women smoking. He helped make thin be vogue. He invented faux socially conscious. Ad tactics that cloak capitalism and robes of charity. And perhaps more than anything else, he invented bacon as a staple of the American breakfast. Yes, yes. I don't know. What do you call the kind of person who will not shut up about bacon besides obnoxious baconators every time? Because I I love bacon. That's great. Who doesn't love bacon? Even if you think it's unethical to eat, you agree that it smells and tastes incredible. I love bacon but I dislike when people. I feel like it's it is a talking point for MRA's. I've like anytime anytime an MRA comes up they're like, oh look Jamie love just sucks. She doesn't even like like beer babes and bacon like this. I've, I've been people have invoked the 3B's at me before. There's just it. It is a weird talking point and I would like to hold Edward Bernays personally. That's great. Who doesn't love bacon even if you think it's unethical. To eat you agree that it smells and tastes incredible. I love bacon but I dislike when people I feel like it's it is a talking point for MRA's I've like anytime anytime an MRA comes up they're like, oh look Jamie love just sucks. She doesn't even like like beer babes and bacon like this I've I've been people have invoked the 3B's at me before. There's just it. It is a weird talking point and I would like to hold Edward Bernays personally responsible for it. Yeah, I mean it's it's one of those things where like. The story of how bacon became what it is right now, which is like this Internet famous, like everybody does these. Look at this thing that's made I made a burger Patty entirely out of woven bacon or whatever. Like all of these like bacon. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like that's a tactic to get people because people were eating less bacon, so they were like, how do we make bacon cool? Like incorporated into like the quote UN quote, like random culture of the mid 2000s. I feel like everyone because it's kind of a funny word. Yeah. Everyone with like an invader Zim sleeve of tattoos. Yeah. Talks about bacon too much. And that's that's if you're like a company that produces a product and you can have it be that kind of popular where like people are making random Internet jokes just because the word bacon is funny and then it you know it. And then they eat more bacon because like, it's one of those things. It works because as I was researching how Eddie Bernays made bacon. Go viral in America. I craved bacon, and I bought a whole ******* pile of bacon and ate it because I desperately wanted to eat bacon after reading everything that like, had been. You see a bunch of in. It's the same thing. Like, you see a bunch of bacon memes on Twitter and it's like, these are dumb and like, I understand how stupid they are, but bacon is delicious and now I'm going to go eat some. It doesn't help when the product is fun to consume. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it really does. In the mid 1920s Beechnut packing company, who was one of America's major bacon producers, had noticed their sales were starting to plummet. This may have had something to do with the thinness craze that Eddie Bernays had actually helped to spark. Whatever the cause, Americans were eating lighter breakfasts and going without bacon. More mornings than not. So Beech nut packing company hired Bernays to turn **** around. Now Jamie, the average standard ad man move might have been to attack the competition and try to steal market share from other bacon companies. But Bernays knew there was no point in doing that. Beechnut stood to make way more money by just changing America's breakfast habits to include too much bacon. He instituted this change the same way he got America to smoke by finding doctors and bribing them to lie to the country's going. To quote from an ink.com article here. Bernaise contacted a doctor he knew and who also had substantial financial ties to his agency, and commissioned a study on the health effects of bacon. When the physician came back with was that bacon was in fact. The perfect breakfast food, and that it replaces the energy you lose during sleep. Right. I ******* I I love 20s like bad medical advice. Reasoning like just like cigarettes fill you Qzone bacon replaces you sleep energy. Just like inventing things that don't actually exist. Well, yeah, of course you're going to have less energy after sleeping, so you need bacon. Can you base is exhausting. I mean, that is yeah. That also, yeah. Just contradicts the very concept of sleep. Yeah, it's it's yeah, it's amazing. It's incredible. Once assured of these results, Bernays asked the doctor to communicate his findings to the medical community, which he did by distributing them to a list of 5000 MD's across the country. Within no time, doctors from coast to coast were recommending that their patients eat bacon for breakfast, and the eating habits of a nation were transformed. So there we go. Thanks, Eddie. Honestly, I mean, that is, I think, one of the more positive things that he did for the world. I mean, it's never good to lie about something being healthy that's not healthy, but that certainly wasn't his idea. And yes, it was his idea to say that a healthy. I feel like that's been happening since before. Before Edward Bernays. That like lying about something being healthy? No, I mean not just lying about something being healthy. Finding a doctor to cook up a fake study about something being healthy to make that go viral so that people would start eating all of the bacon in the world. Like you can tie so much of like our modern health ******** to Edward Bernays. Getting a doctor to be like, bacon replenishes your energy and now it's like it's come down to be like, no kale juice is like, you know, got to fight cancer and stuff, but at all. It's descended from the same tactic. Pioneers like Doctor Oz wouldn't be possible without Edward. Yeah, yeah, because before, like, yeah, you'd have lies where people would be, like, this morphine cough syrup is good for your kid. But after medicine started to really become a thing, and, like, antibiotics were real and, like, it was clear that, like, doctors were more legitimate than they'd been in the old sawbones days. Bernays was the first guy to be like, OK, well, I've got a I've got to kick this up a notch. I can't just lie about something being healthy. I got a bribe. Doctors to lie about something being healthy, and that's how we're going to ******* get this **** on the road. And it worked. And it worked. And I'm I'm not too mad about it. It's a bad it's a bad practice. But I like bacon at breakfast. So do I. It's delicious. And he was objectively right that it's a fantastic breakfast food. But I did feel like I'd be remiss if I didn't talk a little bit about the health consequences of all of this bacon consumption on the American people. So I found an article for you. Yeah. I found an article on the Guardian about an announcement made by the World Health Organization based on the conclusions of 22 cancer experts in 10 countries reviewing more than 400 studies on the health impact of processed meats like bacon. Quote The Who advised that consuming 50 grams of processed meat a day, equivalent to just a couple rashers of bacon or one hot dog, would raise the risk of getting bowel cancer by 18% / a lifetime. Eating larger amounts raises your risk more learning that your own risk of cancer has increased from something like 5% to something like. 6% may not be frightening enough to put you off bacon sandwiches forever, but learning that consumption of processed meat causes an additional 34,000 worldwide cancer deaths a year is much more chilling. So if we're if we're calculating the death toll of Eddie Bernays on top of that 200,000,000 dead cigarette ladies, we got another 34,000 a year from bacon from the bacon edgelords. Wow. Wow, that's brutal. OK, that is brutal. Now I'm a fair man, Jamie, and unlike with tobacco, I don't think we can blame. DNA is for purposefully harming here because back in the 20s, whiskey was still medicine, and while he knew that his medical expert was a paid lying shill to get people to eat more bacon, he did not know that bacon was going to give our grandparents bowel cancer. So you can blame him somewhat for that because he knew he was lying for money. But it's not like with cigarettes, where he knew he was getting people to give themselves cancer. He had. Yeah, like where he had the research and had a counter argument prepared. Yeah, yeah. OK. I mean, I. I'm I'm almost like willing to defend him for this. So just like, yeah, it's not good to have a like a snake oil doctor cop for your product, but if the product ain't delicious, if the damned if this is, it's not ******* tasty. Yeah, you know. Now, over the course of the Roaring 20s, Bernays gradually refined his strategy, create newsworthy stories by any means necessary, and use that to generate demand for the product he was representing. He eventually turned it into something like a science. By 1931, Bernays was raking in more than $60,000 a year in profits, which equates to more than $900,000 a year in modern dollars. By 1935 he was earning five times that much. But Edward Bernays was not just content being good at his job and making money. He wanted to be seen as an intellectual Titan, a serious scholar of mass consciousness. So he started writing books propaganda in 1928, which was about well. You know, it was propaganda. This quote from the book is telling about how bernays's ideology developed. Quote The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in a democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government, which is the true ruling power of our country. We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed in our ideas suggested largely by men we have never heard of. It is they who pull the wires that. Control the public mind. He writes this considering himself a good guy, which is amazing because like. This is almost exactly what Alex Jones believes about the world. He just thinks it's a different group of people. And Bernays is like, no, this is what we're doing. It is so funny, like how books of this era that it's just like, you sound like a villain, but yeah. But he is the good guy of the time. He sees himself as the good guy, for sure. And Bernays considered himself a liberal, but he was also a very elitist liberal. So not a populist, not a socialist. Certainly he was one of those people who feared and reviled the masses. Much of his work, and the cynicism behind it, came from his strongly held belief that the masses were fundamentally dumb and dangerous. They had to be led and molded by men like him who could channel their unconscious desires and productive, or at least profitable. Directions. Cool. So not not an ego issue with him, not at all. No. Not an ego issue. Thinking that he knows what's good for the world. Better than the people of the world? Not at all. And I'm going to kill them with cigarettes. Kenny bernaise. That's a that's a ******* epitaph. Someone find his his gravestone and carve that in there. Everyone is trashed but me, so I'm going to get them hooked on cigarettes. Amazing. In 1933? Yeah. Sorry. Who's the jewel equivalent of Eddie Bernays today? I'm just one. I mean, he's the guy who runs jewel. Maybe. Yeah, who runs? Jill? All right, I'm going to investigate anyways. Continue. In 1933, he published what would become his most influential work, crystallizing public opinion. His focus in this book was on what he called the engineering of consent. A phrase is horrifying as it is. Yeah, it's it sounds horrible, right? Like, that's bad. That sounds like some Tucker Max **** that. Yeah, that sounds like a little Tucker maxi. Right, OK, what is that? What is the goal of engineering? Consent, he says, is to provide leaders with the ability to quote, control and regiment the masses according to our will without their knowing about it. Ohh, like consent. Like, yeah yeah yeah. I I just have to remind everyone at no point did Burnett consider himself a bad guy. He's saying this **** and he thinks, like, but I'm, I'm I'm in the right here. When you hear this stuff there, it's no wonder that however many years in the future, his daughter is like, no, he wasn't that great like he was. He was kind of a ***** ** ****. Yeah. His his daughter seemed kind of consistent about that. Yeah, you know, use the phrase ***** ** ****. But they're very critical. Like, I'm a feminist. I did kill like a million ladies, but I killed all of the women who were alive in my day. But other than that, I was very progressive. Yeah, now obviously, while Bernays considered himself a good guy, he was very popular among bad guys. And starting in the 1920s, he accrued a new and increasingly influential fan, a fella you might have heard about by the name of Joseph Gerbils. Now. Yeah, there we go. Jacobs. There it is. Yeah. Even though Bernays himself was, Jewish gerbils loved him. He kept a copy of crystallizing public opinion in a place of honor in his office and utilized all of bernays's well worn techniques to create a cult of personality around Adolf Hitler, according to an article on brunettes. In the conversation quote, Bernays learned that the Nazis were using his work in 1933 from a foreign correspondent for Hearst Newspapers he later recounted. In his 1965 autobiography they were using my books as the basis for a destructive campaign against the Jews of Germany. This shocked me, but I knew that any human activity could be used for social purposes or misused for anti social ones. This observation? Yeah, what's that, Jamie? Use of the phrase anti social purposes to describe the Holocaust is very diplomatic. It's also interesting because it's exactly the terminology Nazis used. They called people like homosexuals. Like trans folks and Jewish people themselves asocial. That was one of the terms they used to talk about the people who they later exterminated. Interesting to me, yeah. Now, this observation led Supreme Court Justice Felix Frankfurter to Warren Franklin Roosevelt against allowing Bernays to play a leadership role in World War Two, describing him and his colleagues as professional poisoners of the public mind, exploiters of foolishness, fanaticism, and self-interest. Which is very true. That's a lot more direct. Yeah, yeah. Which is why Bernays does not get to have as much fun in World War Two as he had in World War One. Alright, so real tragedy there. Now, it's shocking to me that Bernays was surprised to see his tactics used for evil. He had not confined himself to the political realm. In 1924 he'd helped popularize President Calvin Coolidge by creating the nonpartisan Committee for Calvin Calvin Coolidge and basically hiring famous people to come to the White House and chill out with the President Coolidge had a reputation for being. Bold and utterly a humorous soberness made sure there were headlines about Al Jolson, the most popular comedian of the day, making him laugh. Three weeks after this article ran, Coolidge won reelection, so he made Coolidge seem cool. Wow, man. It's it's so horrible that sometimes when I hear news from this era, I'm like, well, maybe people just shouldn't have been so ******* stupid. There it is, though. It's the same thing as Donald Trump showing up on Jimmy Kimmel's show or not Jimmy Kimmel. What's his ******* name? Jimmy Fallon. Jimmy Fallon show and having his hair tousled. It's the same thing. It's like this guy has a bad reputation. Put him with a famous, popular comedian and that'll make him look nice. Yeah, that'll make him seem at least human. Yeah, exactly. It's exactly what worked on Coolidge and it worked with Donald Trump. You're right. So yeah, life is hell. Brennan has also worked with Herbert Hoover. He advised the president's administration as it fought to sell the nation, and Hooper's disastrously incompetent policies aimed at mitigating the Great Depression. Bernays's influence on Hoover is obvious in this line from a speech Hoover gave to a group of advertising executives. You have taken over the job of creating desiah and have transformed people into constantly moving happiness machines, machines which have become key to economic progress, constantly moving it. How do you not know you're evil if you're calling people happiness machines? Actually, moving happiness machine sounds like a ****** R.E.M. Song. It said no. It sounds like a great R.E.M. Album. 1990 sevens. Constantly moving happiness machines. Yeah, yeah. That is basically an R.E.M. Album, right? There was a shiny, happy people like, yeah, yeah. Sounds just weird and arrogant enough to be in our album. Constantly moving happiness machines. It's so uncanny valley. It's ******* wild. Yeah, ******* Herbert Hoover says that. The guy who sees the Great Depression. And it's like, clearly the solution to this is more capitalism. We just didn't go far enough. No, yeah, it was. It was a commitment issue. It was fully commitment issue. It was a commitment issue. Yeah, all right, yeah, yeah. So Bernays advised Herbert Hoover's campaign in its attempt to defeat the rise of Democratic candidate Franklin Delano Roosevelt. According to the father of Spin quote. First he would enlist his cadre of disinterested experts from business, labor, and academia. Only this time he was out to win over the entire nation, which meant signing up as many as 25,000 group leaders to his nonpartisan fact finding committee for Hoover. They would get out the word that the economy was about to turn around, and they would help puncture the inferior personality of Roosevelt. By convincing voters that the Democratic candidate was not the progressive people thought he was, and that he has been subject to Tammany and political jobbery, dividing the opposition was the key to conquering it, Bernays believed. In this case that meant persuading the 15 million Americans who had voted four years before for Democrat Alfred Smith to switch to Hoover right in Smith's name or simply stay home on Election Day. One publicity campaign would spotlight leading Democrats who thought it had been a mistake to nominate Roosevelt instead of Smith. Another would show Hoover to be a courageous, humane leader who brought the nation. Peace, if not prosperity, Bernay is also made clear, as he had in his corporate campaigns, that the best way to win over the public was by appealing to instinct rather than reason. Always keep in mind the tendency of human beings to symbolize their leaders as Achilles heel proof. His strategy paper advised also that the inferiority complex of individuals will respond to feeling superior to a fool. Create issues that appeal to pugnacious instincts of human beings. Now you may recognize all this as the exact same strategy that worked in 2016, literally feeling very familiar. Convince leftists to say home. Convince them that the person, the other Democrat who lost the nomination, that they should write in that. Person's name in instead, and get them to want to fight in order to like like focus on the instincts that make them angry rather than in the stuff that brings them together. Like, it's this. It's the same strategy that worked in 2016, but **** ****. Crucially, thankfully it didn't work in this campaign. Which is why the United States did not turn into a fascist hell state like Germany and why the Nazis lost World War Two. So thankfully, FDR was just too ******* good at running a political campaign. To lose to this, but it worked a century, almost a century later. So many thoughts and I'm going to say none of them allowed at this time. Boy, you know, it'll clear your your mind's palette. Jamie. Robert, I just really need some capitalist messaging to you. Get me through the next couple of minutes on a couple of products, a service or three, and then we'll be on the ******* road to happy town. That is the exact baking palette cleanser I'm seeking. Alright, pellets, which are a type of product. Mint Mobile offers premium wireless starting at just 15 bucks a month. And now for the plot twist. Nope, there isn't one. Mint Mobile just has premium wireless from 15 bucks a month. 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Seriously, you'll make your wallet very happy at Mint Mobile. Com slash behind this fall on revisionist history. Is there anything that we haven't talked about or that I should have asked you or you'd like to add that seems relevant? You shouldn't have asked me why I'm missing fingers on my left hand. A story about sacrifice. I think his suffering drove him to try to alleviate suffering. And the shocking discovery I made where I faced the consequences of writing a book I thought would help people? Isn't that funny? It's not funny at all. It's depressing. Very depressing. Religious history is back with more. Listen to revisionist history on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. I've never seen less enthusiasm for a great idea in my life. Hey, it's Rick Schwartz, one of your hosts for San Diego Zoo's Amazing Wildlife podcast. In this special episode, we sit down with Doctor Jane Goodall to hear her inspiring thoughts on how we can create a better future for humans, animals and the environment. Don't help them find ways of making a living without destroying the environment. We can't save chimps, forests or anything else, and that becomes very clear when you look at poverty around the world. If you're living in poverty, you can't afford to ask as we can. Did this product harm the environment? Was it cruel to animals like, was it factory farmed? Is it cheap because of unfair wages paid to people? And so alleviating poverty is tremendously important. Listen to amazing wildlife on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. We're back. I hope you all enjoyed those ads for Raytheon, which, which you know is the finest provider of of missile guidance equipment I'm going to use. I'm going to use the discount code. You know, it's it's funny we're joking about Raytheon a bunch, but I grew up in Plano, TX, where they're headquartered, and, like, my Scout Master is a kid, like the guy who taught me how to, like, start a fire and survive in the wilderness did something for Raytheon. And we don't know what he all he could say about his job is that he worked for Raytheon, and he was the kind of guy who like whatever he did. The way that he relaxed every year was by spending a month alone in the bottom of the Grand Canyon. Like, you know, he's been doing some any, any person. Who needs to take a very specific, alone dark vacation annually is not doing something good for a living. Like what he would sometimes go with a friend. In one year that friend broke his leg and so he had to, like, use a flare to get the guy helicoptered out, and then he continued alone for weeks after that. Like that's whatever he did at work, like that's how he what he needed in order to, like, get straight again afterwards. And he would return from this feeling cleansed and ready to function up for another. 11 months. I mean, it's one of those things. I don't know what the **** he was doing. I'm sure it's horrible. He also, like, taught me everything I know about Woodcrafting and I'm, I'm, I'll always be grateful for that. He was and he was an incredible woodsman. But like, yeah, man, a complicated man. The older I've gotten and the more I've learned about Raytheon, the more I've started to be like, Oh my God, what the **** were you doing, man? I'm, I'm thrilled to be descended from a long line of weed smoking remedial algebra teachers and it's a very uncomplicated. Existence people who never hurt nobody. Yeah, never hurt nobody. And they certainly never taught nobody anything about algebra. Yeah. So when we last left off, Edward Bernays head invented Donald Trump's 2016 election strategy. So ****** ** it's ******* wild. That hurt my heart to hear spoken out loud. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now obviously his attempts to stop FDR from winning the election did not work. They weren't even close. Hoover got one of the most resounding defeats in the history of American politics. Yeah, weirdo. Yeah, he was a tone deaf weirdo. He was a terrible president. He was a terrible, terrible president. One of the worst we ever had. But Eddie's tactics for engineering consent worked more often than they didn't. Bernays knew that well, and as a clearly intelligent man, he should have known that writing out a how to guide for manipulating mass consciousness could be used by Nazis just as well as it could be used by people who wanted to sell cigarettes. But Bernays wanted to be regarded as a great and serious thinker, and the only way to do that was to publish a book and make sure everyone knew how smart he was. What Bernays did with crystallizing public opinion was the propaganda equivalent of. Figuring out how to build an atom bomb with household materials and then just throwing the instructions up on Reddit now. It's like, yeah, it's like they taught you how to make a bomb inside of Fight Club. Like, why? Why, why, why, why put that in the thing? Where's the need? Now, the grossest part of this story is that many of the ideas Bernays wrote about and crystallizing public opinion weren't even his own ideas originally. Years before, an academic named Walter Lippman had published a book called Public Opinion. According to an article I found in the International Journal of Communication quote, what Bernays represents is a friendly reading of public opinion in his own quickly crafted sequel to littman's book crystallizing public opinion is actually a calculated reversal of lippman's argument. Litman was a vehement critic of propaganda who condemned the manufacture of consent. That public relations when that field was still in its infancy. Crystallizing public opinion inverts and subverts lippman's radical critique into an apology for PR. So this guy Littman, who's a serious scholar, represents what people like Bernays are doing. Like recognizes it, sees it as horrifying, and writes a book outlining why what they're doing is dangerous. And then Bernays basically flips that around into, oh, this guy wrote out really well what we're doing. I'll just turn it into a how to guide to make it easier for other people to do it just strips it down and it's like. But no, he does explain how to do it. Let's just take out the parts where we talk about why it's culturally. He says this is a nightmare. Yeah. Like, no. But he did tell us how to build the bomb. He just. Yeah, deleted all the stories about people dying with bombs. Yeah, about the consequences of bomb use. OK, so once Bernays's book was out and into the hands of men like Joseph Goebbels, Bernays finally started to get what he wanted. Respect. New York University. Let him teach the very first PR course in academic history. Well, Lipman was and remains respected in the industry. Bernays's ideas took a much deeper hold an unfortunately, those ideas, included stereotypes are awesome. Actually, I'm going to quote again from that International Journal of Communication Article quote Littman was consistently critical of the manipulation of public opinion by wartime propaganda and the transfer of propaganda techniques to peacetime endeavors. Conversely, Bernaise contends that propaganda has positive social value in creating unified purpose in wartime and agreement on industrial purposes in peacetime. Bernays regards stereotypes as quote a great aid that the Public Relations Council in his work because they can be grasped by the average mind even though he acknowledges they are not necessarily truthful pictures of what they are supposed to portray. No matter. According to the Bernays, PR practitioners can use stereotypes to reach a public and then add their own ideas to fortify their position and give it greater carrying power. PR can also create new stereotypes to advance clients interests. He does however acknowledge that stereotypes have one disadvantage. Demagogues can use them to take advantage of the public. The only disadvantage of stereotypes, yeah, that's as long as he said it there. Well, I mean, this is. At least we're getting into the cartoon villain territory that I've come to expect with this program because I was feeling too challenged at the beginning. I'm like, Oh no, he descends into egotistical madness, OK. Yeah, he's literally saying like, well, stereotypes can be used to create fascism and they're also usually lies, but they help you sell ****. Like usually comes from people who have no negative stereotypes about themselves. Yeah, yeah, all right, well, I mean, but it doesn't cause Bernays. This is actually another interesting thing about Bernays was Jewish by like birth, but he was an atheist and he was like angry that people considered him Jewish because he he just didn't want to be identified as religious at all. But like you'd think. You would understand how dangerous stereotypes can be. It sounds like he always understands that, but just would. But needs the respect and like the whatever glory can come with being the father of spin more than he cares about anyone, it seems like. I mean, I understand. Like based on the kind of like figure he's trying to be, I understand why he would divorce himself from any identity at all, because. Yeah, but what a what could he be? You know, I'm not a tool. I'm just, like stuffing my face with bacon. I'm stressed. Oh, I'm going to eat so much bacon after this ******* episode. Jamie still winning? He can't. He's still winning. Yeah. Edward Bennett spent his life taking advantage of the public after World War Two. That meant fighting the Cold War in the name of capitalism. He convinced President Eisenhower that the right reaction to the threat of the Soviet Union was to urge Americans towards an irrational fear of communism in order to drive spending. Eisenhower's first political campaign, directly tied to consumer culture, to patriotism. He did. Culminating, Oh yeah, culminating in his you autobuy slogan. Otto is in car. Eisenhower was telling Americans it was their patriotic duty to buy more things. That's how you beat the commies is by embracing consumerism. Now. Raytheon? Yeah, yeah, Raytheon. Like Raytheon. Like the wonderful people that Raytheon Raytheon. Now the bulk of his anti communist. Work with bernays's anti Communist work would however be done in the name of a corporation, not the United States government, and that corporation was the United Fruit Company, now United Fruit. Now Chiquita owned a huge chunk of Guatemala in the late 40s and early 50s. They had secured the Central American Empire by basically bribing and cutting wildly beneficial deals with the corrupt government in the area. This allowed them to grow and export bananas at very low cost, but it also completely screwed over the local workers. And ensured they made virtually no money from the trade and that the nation of Guatemala itself did not benefit in any meaningful way from United Fruit's booming sales. OK, the whole state of affairs owed an awful lot to Edward Bernays. For one thing, he helped make bananas popular in America. United Fruit hired him in the late 40s with a mandate to add the fruit to America's diet. Bernays achieved this goal by using his usual tactics. He found a Doctor Who said bananas were good for people, and then engineered a spate of news stories around the country about the amazing health benefits of Burnett. Of bananas. Classic Bearnaise, which is, you know, not a bad thing. Bananas are great for you. Great thing to eat, bananas. I mean, his approach is so unwavering. Whether he's like, yeah, bananas, cigarettes like red scare kind of all the same. Yeah. Find someone with a fancy title to lie to America. Yeah. Yeah. Which is still works today. There's still like whole TV channels like dedicated to that. Yeah. Yeah. All right. ******* doctor, Phil. Like, if it was just Phil, nobody would give a ****. So as time went on, Edward Bernays made his actual visits to Guatemala. It became clear to him how bad conditions actually were for most Guatemalans. Under years of corrupt rule, Guatemala's leaders exempted the United Fruit Company from most internal taxes. They let it import goods duty free. They gave it control of the nation's only Atlantic seaport and almost all of its railroads. They capped workers salaries at no more than $0.50 a day. Since the United Fruit was the country's largest employer and landowner. This effectively locked the entire nation into perpetual serfdom. You an American fruit company now Edward Bernays was above all else the kind of guy who did need to see himself as a hero. And this was more than he could bear. According to the father of Spin quote, when he returned from a month long company sponsored trip to Guatemala and Honduras in September 1947, Bernays wrote his fruit company clients a long memo warning them about low worker morale and substandard living conditions. Goodwill of all groups towards fruit company is poor, he said. Ignorance, conscious and unconscious distortion by politicos and power are seeking. Power by fellow travelers and communist influences all contribute their part. Guatemala is in a state of transition. All these situations complicate the issue and make the company vulnerable unless certain things happen. He advised United Fruit to basically share just a tiny, tiny, tiny bit of the wealth they were making in order to alleviate conditions on the ground and reduce unrest. Being a gigantic capitalist behemoth helmed entirely by racists who believed brown people were subhuman, United Fruit was unwilling to do this, Bernays later wrote. The people in the tropics were remote from Boston. They produced their banana. Sodas, and that was what counted fruit. Company executives in the tropics were tough characters who had come up through the ranks. They were action oriented men. What I proposed must have seemed like Molly coddling. I got no reaction to my voluminous report. Now, based on his own code of ethics, which he'd outlined in his 1928 book Propaganda, Bernays should have quit. He had written that a good PR man quote refuses a client whom he believes dishonest a product which he believes to be fraudulent, or A cause which he believes to be antisocial. But like, look at his resume. Look at his ******* resume. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Bernays clearly believed that united fruits behavior was antisocial, but he also knew that they were paying him $100,000 a year. So he continued to work for them and as left wing movements rose in the country. An agitated for taking back some of Guatemala's natural resources from United Fruit, Bernays advised his employers on how to fight back in 1952. He wrote. This whole manner of effective counter Communist propaganda is not one of improvising. It could only be fought by the same scientific approach that is applied to, let us say, to a problem of fighting a certain plant disease through a scientific method of approach. Now, the disease in Guatemala from the perspective of United Fruit and Edward Bernays was a fellow named Jacobo Arbenz. Now, Arbenz was not a communist, but he was a socialist, and in 1951 he'd been elected president of Guatemala. His big campaign issue was land reform, and upon taking office he launched degree 900, a program that confiscated 400,000 acres of unused United fruit land and redistributed it to poor Guatemalan farmers in 1950. Yeah, it seems like a great idea in 1950. Only about 10% of Guatemalan land was actually available for purchase. For the 90% of its people who might want to own it, the United fruit had bought up everything else, and then their tax filings. They reported on the land as being almost valueless, essentially barren in order to pay less money in taxes. So when Arbenz seized their land, he only paid them back the incredibly low value that they'd assessed for its value. Now, this would seem like karmic justice if everything about to happen talk about hadn't happened next. So yeah, yeah, it it it's it's really kind of like united fruits, like, Oh no, this land is almost worthless, so they don't have to pay much in taxes on it. And then when Arbez buys it back, he's like, well, OK, then I'll pay you the worthless price for the land. Yeah. Yeah. Was he not able to dunk on him? Yeah, it's yeah. I like it was like one of the only things that this ****** got man hadn't done was ruin a country that wasn't his own. But, oh he's yeah, he got around to that as well. He he got around to that **** real quick, then also oppressing people internationally. Great. Now United Fruit went to the Eisenhower administration and whined that the seizure of their land was a clear example of evil communism sneaking into Latin America. They warned the president that it wouldn't stop at just returning Guatemala's land. It's people's united fruits. Inconvenience would be the first domino to fall, eventually taking all of America, freedom and capitalism with it. Now that's a rather hard line of ******** to sell. Thankfully, United Fruit had the greatest salesman on the planet. The year before the government had started its land expropriation program, Bernays had actually suggested United Fruit launched a media campaign to quote, induce the president and State Department to issue a policy pronouncement comparable to the Monroe Doctrine concerning expropriation. His idea was to convince Americans, specifically Americans in power, that the Arbez administration's totally just land reform was the same as, say, Joseph Stalin murdering 5,000,000 Ukrainian peasants through starvation genocide. He planned to start by picking 10 popular magazines, including Readers Digest in the Saturday Evening Post and convincing their editors to run similar stories about the crisis in Guatemala. Quote from grenades. In certain cases, stories would be written by staff men and certain other cases, the magazine might ask us to supply the story and we in turn would engage in most suitable writer to handle the matter. So yeah, just just so just not a lot of fact checking going on at this point. He's he's providing the facts to the journalists. Yeah, now one that still happens, another thing that has not stopped happening. Yep, Yep, cool. Once Guatemala land expropriation really got started in earnest, United fruit greenlit Bernaise's campaign and he engineered a whole spate of stories aimed at making Jacobo Arbenz look like a Mayan Mao. This culminated on a two week two in a two week tour of Guatemala in which Bernays LED several journalists through the country in 1952. Here's the father of spin quote. With him were the publishers of Newsweek, the Cincinnati Enquirer, the Nashville Banner and the New Orleans item. A contributing editor from time, the foreign editor of Scripps Howard, and high-ranking officials from the United Press, the San Francisco Chronicle, the Miami Herald and the Christian Science Monitor. Bernays insisted in his memoirs that the journalists were free to go where they wanted, talk to whoever they wanted, and report their findings freely, and he reacted angrily to suggestions in later years that the trip was manipulative. But Thomas McCann, who in the 1950s was the young public relations official with United Fruit, wrote in his memoirs. The trip, and others like it, were under the company's careful guidance and, of course, at company expense. The trips were ostensibly to gather information, but what the press would hear and see was carefully staged and regulated by the host. The plan represented a serious attempt to compromise objectivity. Moreover, it was a compromise implicit in the invitation, only underscored by Bernays and the company's repeated claims to the contrary. So that's cool. So he's just generating a bunch of ******** that by people that he can then. I mean, it's just like a different version of what he did with the doctors, but more involved of like, Oh well Janice, journalists are credible. So let me find someone who will lend their name to a whole pile of ******** that's too much for people to read on their own and they'll just be like, alright, works for me. He knew what sort of newspapers everyone in the White House was reading, and he made sure that they all published stories about how communism was overtaking Guatemala. Right, simple as that. Alright, OK, cool. Well, I ******* hate this guy. You know what? I don't ******* hate Jamie. What, Robert? The wonderful products and services that support our program. I'm honest, I can't wait to hear about more of them. I hope it's a Chiquita banana ad man. I hope it's an ad for this is evil. I hope it's an ad for the new Chiquito wire guided bananas, which which are of course manufactured in part by Raytheon guidance chips. Yeah, I hope that it's a Chiquita banana Amazon Prime crossover. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's get all of the big companies working together to to drone strike bananas into the mouths of hungry people. I love it, right? Thanks. Mint Mobile offers premium wireless starting at just 15 bucks a month. And now for the plot twist. Nope, there isn't one. Mint Mobile just has premium wireless from 15 bucks a month. There's no trapping you into a two year contract. You're opening the bill to find all these nuts fees. There's no luring you in with free subscriptions or streaming services that you'll forget to cancel and then be charged full price for none of that. For anyone who hates their phone Bill, Mint Mobile offers premium wireless for just $15.00 a month. Mint Mobile will give you the best rate whether you're buying. Or for a family. And it meant family start at 2 lines. All plans come with unlimited talk and text, plus high speed data delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. You can use your own phone with any mint mobile plan and keep your same phone number along with all your existing contacts. Just switch to Mint mobile and get premium wireless service starting at 15 bucks a month. Get premium wireless service from just $15.00 a month, and no one expected plot twists at mintmobile.com/behind. That's mintmobile.com/behind. Seriously, you'll make your wallet. Very happy at Mint Mobilcom behind. This fall on revisionist history, is there anything that we haven't talked about, or I should have asked you or you'd like to add that seems relevant? You should have asked me why I'm missing fingers on my left hand. A story about sacrifice. I think his suffering drove him to try to alleviate suffering. And the shocking discovery I made where I faced the consequences of writing a book I thought would help people. Isn't that funny? That's not funny at all. It's depressing. Very depressing. Revisionist history is back with more. Listen to revisionist history on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. I've never seen less enthusiasm for a great idea in my life. Hey, it's Rick Schwartz, one of your hosts for San Diego Zoo's Amazing Wildlife podcast. In this special episode, we sit down with Doctor Jane Goodall to hear her inspiring thoughts on how we can create a better future for humans, animals and the environment. Anything, particularly young children out into nature so that they can experience it and take time off from this virtual world of being always on your cell phones and so on. And get the feel of nature so that you come to be fascinated, then you come to want to understand it, and then you come to love it, and at that point you want to protect it. And then we'll come to the sort of healthy world that I envision as a good future for us. And the rest of life on this planet. Listen to amazing wildlife on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. We're back and we're talking about Eddie B. Eddie. So can he get worse? Yes, yes. Spoiler alert. In like a minute and 1/2, we'll be talking about genocide. So true to form. So long. Ohh the worst smoke. Yeah, the whole banana thing wouldn't have happened. Yeah, and and now true to form, Edward Bernays also commissioned scholarly studies in order to lend extra legitimacy to united fruit. He commissioned a 25 page content analysis of 17,000 words spoken by Guatemala's new left wing leaders and then compared them to statements from Soviet leaders. The conclusion of the report was obvious. The Arbez administration were hardline commies quote every item mentioned in almost verbatim form is frequently found in Soviet propaganda messages. Some good false equivalence. Like half. Because literally all it's happened. The ****** memes on the Internet that, like, reply guys get into your mentions and they're like, Oh well, you said this and this ******* murderer also said this word. So you're a murderer, dude. And and yeah, fun, fun, fun, fun. And they're they're the same guys who will tell you it's not valid to point out when somebody literally repeats Nazi propaganda verbatim, it's quite, quite amazing. And like, the thing that they're calling Communism here, I want to point out like arbez was was a socialist, was not a communist, was a guy who was like his most radical stance was like, no, the old, incredibly corrupt leaders of our country sold all of our nation's national resources to a fruit company for pennies on the dollar so that they could get rich. And it's locked our nation into a form of slavery. And we're just not gonna let that happen. Like, you don't get to own the whole country because you bought it from a corrupt ******* 20 years ago. Like, **** that ****. Like that's what he's saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and he's not even kicking United fruit out. He's taking the land that they hadn't developed at all, that they were just holding on to in case and saying, no, we're going to give this to people like, the company could have still made a **** load of money like it's one of those things. Communism's got a major hold in the country after everything that we're about to talk to happened, because when these moderate reformers came along, we fought them tooth and nail and treated them like they were Joseph ******* Stalin reincarnated like, it's very frustrating. Paper, said Robert. So hmm. So Bernays propaganda and united fruits lobbying did its work. He managed to get his work, all these articles and studies into the hands of top men in the White House and in the national security apparatus. The CIA began to train and arm and insurgent movement, the Liberation Army under a ***** ** **** named Carlos Castillo Armas. Armas was a military officer living in exile. He and his 200 CIA picked guerrillas entered Guatemala on June 18th 1954 with CIA air support. Burneisen shared coverage of the coup and called them an army of liberation. Armas forces took over Guatemala within a week, and he was quickly named president. Shockingly, the CIA backed military dictator did not have the best interests of the Guatemalan people at heart. Armas's first act, yeah, I know, really surprising. His first act was to return all the land taken from United Fruit back to the company. He told Vice President Nixon. Tell me what you want me to do and I will do it. Many Guatemalans were, of course, unhappy with the state of affairs, and by the 1960s the situation had degraded into a brutal internecine conflict. The Banana Wars had begun, according to the Council. Hemispheric relations. It's a ****** war, dude. True, it's true. I guess that's not really the focus of the problem. I mean, it's just accurate. These are a war started over ******* bananas. Bananas. ******* bananas. The civil war between the newly formed leftist guerrillas and the government lasted for over 30 years, costing approximately 200,000 lives, mostly people of Mayan descent. When the US assisted in modernizing the government troops in 1965, kidnappings and assassinations significantly increased in a systematic manner. The war's victims included farm workers, student activist, Catholic priests, and labor leaders who are part of a nonviolent social movement. The war was devastating. More people were killed in this conflict than in any Latin American war. The Valiant efforts of the Guatemalan historical clarification. Commission, which the government initiated at the end of the war, identified genocide in the Mayan communities. This is atrocious and horrible and I and just. I mean, a little beside the point, but how have I never heard about this before? This is like a part of you should have. Yeah. Yeah. It seems like if you're going to talk about this is one of the things that frustrates me a lot, people will bring up the the huge death count of of communist regimes around the world. Totally valid, absolutely worth talking about the 10s of 1,000,000 who died under the mouth and the millions who died under Stalin. But then they pretend like there's no death toll for capitalism. They ignore the 20 or 30 million who died in India as a result of the East India Corporation's reform. All in, they lured the hundreds of thousands of people who died in Latin America and are still dying as a result of all the like. It's because history education in the United States is criminally incompetent at a systemic level, and it's just, yeah, it has to ignore the evils of capitalism or young people might start out asking questions. Yeah, and I you know, one other ******* thing we have to blame for we have bernaise to blame for is Shay Guevara T-shirts. Because the way, yeah? One observer of Jacobo Arbenz's overthrow was a young Argentinian traveler named Che Guevara. He told his mother that the Armus coup was the moment quote that I left the path of reason. As New York Times writer Daniel Kurtz Fellon wrote in his 2008 article big Fruit, so too did Latin America. That day marked a turning point, the end of a hopeful age of reform in the beginning of a bloody age of revolution and reaction over the next 4 decades. Hundreds of thousands of people. Were killed in guerrilla attacks, government crackdowns and civil wars across Latin America. This is ******* cool. ******* horrible. This year I can't even this, like the cigarettes. I can wrap my head around the bacon. Fine. This is just. I mean, this is next level. This is just like propaganda warfare. Well, yeah, it's a ******* nightmare. And you mentioned not having heard about any of this before. I mean, I guess that's pretty common among our listeners. The only reason I had is that when I was in my early 20s, a group of friends and I lived in Guatemala for several wonderful months, and it's I I ******* love Guatemala. It's unbelievably beautiful. Like, maybe the prettiest place I've ever been. It's certainly, like, up there on that list of just, like, lands that take your breath away. But it was impossible to not notice. All the scars of, like, decades of civil war there were. There would be times where we would like be driving through a field, and you'd notice that it was like it was covered in grass, but the texture of the land was like the surface of the moon. And it was because so much mortar fire had filled it with craters that had then gotten grown over with grass. But there would be thousands of craters. Or you drive past old buildings covered in heavy machine gunfire, like holes from machine gun rounds. Or you'd be walking down the street in Antigua and you would see 15 or 20 old men. Missing arms and legs, like, lying on the side of a building, begging for money, all clearly with, like, war injuries and stuff on them. And so I started like, really like, what the **** happened here? And that's where I I didn't learn about Bernays at that point, but I learned about United Fruit and the ******* banana wars. I mean, the fact that you had to physically be there to even learn that this had happened, like, speaks volumes. Yeah. Yeah. And it might like, my study of that started when I was in these little Mayan villages around Lago Atitlan, and people would explain to me why. Because you see soldiers all over the place in Guatemala because it's one of those countries where they don't have laws like we do. Like the the military doesn't do, like, law work in the United States. Like, they don't keep the peace. That's for police to do. Guatemala doesn't have laws like that. So you see soldiers a lot on the street and stuff. But once we got to these little Mayan villages, there would be no soldiers. And I started asking the people I met, like, why that was. And they're like, oh, we don't let the military in here because of the genocide they committed, you know, back in, like the, you know, a couple of decades ago. Right. So reason. Yeah. Reasonable. Extremely reasonable. That's very reasonable. And I mean, I I like joking and **** are on. Like, how could, how could people not, like, realize that things are gonna kill them and that. But if it's like, and then there's, you know, at I and probably most people in this country have this huge blind spot that is just like intentional erasure to make it easier to, you know, be OK with how we how we live. Well, oh God, Robert. You're really, you're really killing me with this one. This is yeah, it's it's a bad one. It's ******* bad. OK, well Edward Bernays reading more about this. Wow. Edward Bernays died a millionaire on March 9th 1995. He was 104 ******* years old. He left behind a world scarred by the wars he helped to incite. There were other Latin American wars by the way that he got involved with. Like this is just as much as I had time to write about so well for him it went so great. A world utterly dominated by the propagandistic techniques that he pioneered. Perhaps the most insidious piece of his legacy is the possibly fatal damage done to the field of journalism. When Bernays started manipulating the media, PR was a new field, and the handful of extant PR flacks were massively outnumbered by reporters and journalists. By 2019, that situation had completely reversed itself. There are currently 6 PR people for every journalist in the United States, like the alleys full of money. They make a lot more money, which is why if you look into past Pulitzer Prize winners, an awful lot of them go into PR because it's like, and it's like, I can't even blame them. It's like, OK, you worked your *** off making ******* nothing. And you, you told, you know, an incredibly important story and got recognized. Now it's time to ensure that you can retire someday. Like, it's, man, having ethics means that you're going to, you know, be seeing a lot of Groupon doctors. Yeah. On the upside, Jamie Edward Bernays also advised the Multiple Sclerosis Foundation to call themselves the Ms Foundation because it was better branding. So like, you know it equals out. You cause a war. You help the Ms Foundation make more money. Icon in the last episode. How dare you? And then? And then you throw the banana wars at the last second. How dare you know? Well, you can be a feminist icon and also help spark a brutal, genocidal civil war in Guatemala, but you can't be a feminist icon. And kill every woman you know with cigarettes and you can't. Well he didn't know. Not his, not his wife because he got her to stop smoking. Ohh God yeah, I hate all women. Women except my wife. Yeah, sick argument. Bernie. Bernie. Bernie, Bernie, Bernie. Eddie. The God all villains live forever. Well, all villains live forever, yeah. Ah, old cube head. So that was so. There's no more. There's no more. Or is there? No. That's the ******* tale of Eddie Bernays. That's as much of it as I'm going to tell. There's a lot more. The book the father of Spin is a is a fine book if you want to learn more about the guy. But I feel like this is enough to know about Edward Bernays. Yeah, yeah, I certainly learned. I certainly learned a lot. And now I understand why his daughters hate him so much. Embezzle yeah yes. Ebil all Cuban himself. Hmm. OK Cupid. So, Jamie, you got any pluggable holes to plug? Yeah, not that they're in the P zone. Yes, you can listen to the Bechdel cast, my name Caitlin Durante's podcast every Thursday at Bechdel cast. You can follow me on Twitter at Jamie Loftus help, albeit at Edinburgh Fringe Festival on August. If you want to come see a show, you can do that. So fringe out with your hinge out, fringe out my show. Yeah, it's my, it's, it's my the Elizabeth Holmes show basically. I mean actually you could do a really good like comparison to hang out with your your Wang out there using a local British Isles. Synonym for pubic hair dish. Yeah, that people will hinge out with your ***** out your *****. Yeah, never say that again, Robert. Never say me that that's that's a that's a slang term in the place you're going to be going. God, why are you going to be so cute about all this, man? Well, you know what? You know what ***** means up there, too, right? But right. No, it means vagina in the aisles. It means vagina. ***** is slang for vagina in the British Isles, so this is very important for you to know you. You were in danger if you don't understand. You know, so I if. I mean, not that I've ever said ***** but if you said sit on it, people would be confused. Very, very sit on your ***** means a very different thing in the British Isles than it does in America. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. OK, well, good. Thank you for these travel tips. I do need them also. Blood pudding. Surprisingly tasty. Really ******* good. Like everybody. Everybody talk **** about the British. I think they have the second best breakfast food I've ever encountered. They're not better at breakfast than the Irish. But they're very good, in my opinion. I'm. I'm a big fan, so enjoy yourself. I don't know anything about Scottish food that scares me, so I have no idea. Yeah, I'll just have to find out when I get there. Yeah, drink a lot of Talisker, though. I do. I do recommend that. All right, well, Jamie Loftus, Fringe Festival. Watch her be the champion queen of comedy that we all know her to be. Cheer her on in her journey through Scotland and listeners online if you know of other slang terms that she should know. Before she goes there, hit us up on Twitter and warn her. Don't yeah. I don't wanna get killed for saying the wrong thing. Yeah, that happens a lot. The British are a violent people. They're violent and I'm getting them just pre Brexit, so it's going to be a stressful time. Oh yeah, everyone's going to be swinging. Tallywackers that seems like a British slang for a weapon. Sounds like something. Sounds like something. Well, I'm Robert Evans. This is behind the ******** has been behind the ********. It's not anymore because it's over. You can find me on Twitter at I write. OK. You can find this show on Twitter and Instagram and Facebook spot. You could buy T-shirts on tee public by looking for behind the ******** on T public. And that's it. That's the ******* episode. Go, Robert. Thanks for being on Jay. That's the goal with every episode of behind the ******** is to leave you feeling worse than you did before. Mission alright. Hey, they usually don't end by shouting products, but I did. Why? Why? I'm just thinking there was just thinking of them always. There will be an ad after this. You know that, Sophie. Hello, I'm Erica Kelly from the podcast Southern Fried True crime, and if you want to go from podcast fan to podcast host, do what I did and check out spreaker from iheart. I was working in accounting and hating it. Then after just 18 months of podcasting with Spreaker, I was able to quit my day job. Follow your podcasting dreams, let's break or handle the hosting, creation, distribution, and monetization of your podcast. Go to spreaker.com. That's spreaker.com. Want to say I don't know less? Listen to stuff you should know more. Join host Josh and Chuck on the podcast packed with fascinating discussions about science, history, pop culture, and more episodes. Dive into topics like was the lost, city of Atlantis Real? And how does pizza work? Say goodbye to I don't know, because after listening to stuff you should know. 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