There’s a reason the History Channel has produced hundreds of documentaries about Hitler but only a few about Dwight D. Eisenhower. Bad guys (and gals) are eternally fascinating. Behind the Bastards dives in past the Cliffs Notes of the worst humans in history and exposes the bizarre realities of their lives. Listeners will learn about the young adult novels that helped Hitler form his monstrous ideology, the founder of Blackwater’s insane quest to build his own Air Force, the bizarre lives of the sons and daughters of dictators and Saddam Hussein’s side career as a trashy romance novelist.
Tue, 09 Aug 2022 10:00
Robert is joined again by Miles Gray for part three of our four part series on Clarence Thomas.
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Hey, Robert here. It's been like two months since I had LASIK and I'm still seeing 2020. All I had to do was go in for a consultation, then go in for a maybe 10 minute procedure and then my eyes have been great ever since. You know, I healed up wonderfully. It was very simple, couldn't have been a better experience. So if you want to explore LASIK plus I can't recommend it enough. They have over 20 years experience in the industry and they performed more than two million treatments right now if you want to try getting LASIK plus you can get $1000 off of your surgery when you're treated in September, that's $500. Of per eye, just visitmylasikoffer.com to schedule your free consultation. Hello, I'm Erica Kelly from the podcast Southern Fried true crime. And if you want to go from podcast fan to podcast host, do what I did and check out spreaker from iheart. I was working in accounting and hating it. Then after just 18 months of podcasting with Spreaker, I was able to quit my day job. Follow your podcasting dreams. Let's breaker handle the hosting, creation, distribution, and monetization of your podcast. Go to spreaker.com. That's spreaker.com. Hey there, it's Ebony Monet, your co-host for the San Diego Zoo's Amazing Wildlife podcast. In this special episode, we're speaking with Doctor Jane Goodall about the fascinating journey that led to her social discoveries on chimpanzees SO4-O months, the chimps ran away from me. I mean, they take one look at this peculiar white ape and disappear into the vegetation. Bing wildlife on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Ah, this is behind the ********. It's a podcast about. Miles. Miles. About how do you plan to make all of your mini crimes right. Look I start by my manager said and my publicist both said go on this podcast. So thanks so much for having me and of course of course always happy to have a worker, you know. Exactly. And I think and the first thing what I'm trying to do is sort of challenge what our conventional definition of what a war crime is. And I think that's my task today as a guest on your podcast. Thanks so much for having me. Well, that's fascinating. You know, I read about your. Your your rebranding of war crimes and that Barry Weiss column. And I just thought very brave, very brave Barry actually. Barry. So my best friend. So yeah, he refuses to learn her name. I told him many times, that's a nice way you should have. Yeah. Respect for one of America's greatest journalists and great minds. And Claire. Yeah, absolutely. She's the Glenn Greenwald of Glenn Greenwald's. This is the podcast about bad people. Tell you all about them. It's part three of our of our series. Clarence Thomas, how you doing? How you doing? We took a little break. For us, yeah. Good news. Good to have the break. I kept telling everybody I was doing this and I was like, the first two episodes just ******* spooked me out. Because it's not. I'm like, look what this guy did. It was just be like, look at the incubator where this thing just grew from. And that was the ******* most horrifying **** of all the things we've talked about. This, this is again, I feel like you always outdo yourself with yeah, even more uncomfortable. I that that's was the original goal when we came up with this. Podcast you know, I had been lurking outside of your house for a while and I I emailed Sophie saying I would like to really make miles uncomfortable about twice a year over over like a five year. And that's turned into a very successful podcast. You know he's lying. He would never put that in an e-mail. Yeah, e-mail. Exactly. So I guess we should probably get back to the tail of Mr Clarence Thomas now. When we left off with them, with our old friend, he had gotten a job working as the assistant Secretary for Civil Rights and the Department of Education. Now #1, this is a job in the Reagan administration. So if you are the assistant secretary for Civil rights for the DOE and the Reagan administration, your job is not to help ensure that civil rights laws are abided by in schools. Your job is to. Make sure that nothing is done to protect civil rights laws in the Department of Education because the Reagan administration fundamentally did not believe it should exist. And in fact Reagan had campaigned talking about how there shouldn't be a Department of Education. So that said, it was one of those like everyone, including Clarence, was aware that he got the job because since the Reagan administration was going to get up to so much ******* they wanted to have a black dude somewhere near the civil rights position in the Department of Education to like make it look like they were less. The system they were. Yes, exactly. And this is exactly the kind of job to his credit. I mean, you know, credit may not, may or may not be right thing to say, but, like, Thomas had never wanted jobs like this, right. Like, in the past, he had always been like, well, no, I want to do energy. I want to do, like, oil and gas, environmental stuff. I want to do something that, like, people will not be like, oh, that's the job he's got because he's the black lawyer, right. He wanted to like to push away from work like that because I'm Darth Vader, right? Yeah, I want to. Just because I'm a bad person. I don't want anyone to think that it's. But this is a job that he is getting because he's like a black Republican, right, which is what he said he didn't want. But it's also the kind of thing he can't turn down this job. This is a presidential appointment, which is like a big deal and also like he himself in the last couple of that, I think the episode previous you were saying, like, he saw it was clear to him the opportunity that present that was in front of him by being a black conservative, like, so in that sense it's almost like, well, you know, you know how why you're going to flourish because you're taking advantage of all of that. At the same time, but then we're like, but I don't want to be diversity Darth Vader higher. Yeah. And it's it gets more uncomfortable. So it's uncomfortable for him, despite the fact that this is a thing he can't pass up. It's uncomfortable for him for that reason, and because a lot of basically all of his coworkers in the Reagan administration are, like, the most racist people you can imagine. Because it's the Reagan administration. He regularly described his coworkers to friends as bigots, Mayer and Abramson write in the book Strange Justice. Quote Terrell H Bell, who was Secretary of education at the time, recalled in his memoirs being shocked at the sick humour and racist cliches voiced by some Reagan appointees who for instance referred to Martin Luther King Junior as Martin Lucifer Koon called Arabs sand inwards and described Title 4 which prohibits sexual or Title 9, which prohibits sexual discrimination as the lesbians Bill of Rights. Like not just like you know, guys being like, oh crossing. Like the street or something, when they see a black dude, guys like dropping hard slurs. The hard R yeah, they're going, they're they're letting the Klan hood hang all out and I like. And so Mr Clarence Thomas is like, man, he's like, I couldn't even couldn't even regale them with my **** recaps because they're being so racist. Talk to them about ***********. They're so actually, I think he probably can. He was like, could you or what's that conversation like where some dudes like, yeah, man, you know, the ******* Malcolm X and Martin Luther. I'm glad they got theirs, you know what I mean? We don't want, you know what? The ******* get any ideas. And Martin and Clarence Thomas is like, so I was watching this video of three women in cheerleading outfits and you're like, this is a conversation. And from Hell's waiting room. So the Reagan administration, miles, I think if you were to, like, have a, a hidden audio recorder in there, it would like any given hour of conversation in Reagan's West Wing would be too explicit for us to run on Spotify. Right. Like, we we would get in legal trouble. The FCC would be like, we don't even have jurisdiction here, but like, we're hopping it. You got to stop this. And we do. Historically, we do. Not a lot. So, my God. But if Thomas was uncomfortable at all working alongside, you know, not just open racists, but like outrageously bigoted people, he was happy working adjacent to a man who made a fortune as the mouthpiece of literal apartheid South Africa. And I'm going to quote again from the New York Times here, quote. In 1977 to 78, when Mr. Parker this is the guy we talked about last time, right when Clarence Thomas is a mentors first served as a South African agent, he organized the Lincoln Institute for Research and Education, which issued the quarterly Lincoln Review. The Institute and review have consistently attacked the African National Congress, sanctions against South Africa and the United States, civil rights movements, leadership and ideas. Mr. Parker and Clarence Thomas served on the Reagan Bush transition team for the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, of which Mr Thomas became Commissioner in June 1982. Since 1981, Mr Thomas has been listed as an editorial Advisory Board member of Mr Parker's Lincoln review. Mr Keys has been a contributing editor. Registration filings under the heading political Propaganda Show International Public Affairs Consultants held a reception for its South African Clients ambassador in 1987, when Pretoria was vigorously fighting sanctions. Mr Thomas, then the EEOC chairman, was listed as in attendance. So, you know, getting, getting money and and getting like. Feed it at fancy dinners and stuff that are funded by the ******* South African apartheid government as part of their plan to build US support for continuing white minority rule in South Africa. Yeah, he's fine with that. Human rights violation, food washing campaign, party washing campaign, come by, check out the junket. Be pretty fun. So while Thomas's career flourished though his personal life and I know this is going to really hurt you to hear because he was doing so well, wasn't shambles so. His first wife leaves him because again, she's, she's a very traditional like person in terms of her view of like men and women and like wants to be kind of the the homemaker mother wife, but also she's very, very committed Democrat. And when he starts going to hard, right, she looks at what's he's putting up with in the Reagan administration and is like, no, this is not OK. This is not like a thing that I want to. So she, like, she ******* bounces. Because she. Yeah, she. It's funny how, like kind of she was such like a Lib or she's like, my whole vibe was to marry this like other liberal black man. But now that you're becoming a conservative black man, this is, this is not good for my brand either. But I'm sure at the same time, you don't want to see someone you marry suddenly be so like, yeah, apparently opportunity to think about like, how they modify their being. And she married a guy. I'm sure he was saying the same things to her that he'd said to his grandpa, who was like, I wanna get be a lawyer so that I can get into civil rights so I can help. The government. And like, you know, he'd worked in a Republican administration before, but it had been a liberal Republican. And now Thomas is like, no, I want to help the chief ghoul of the far right, like, destroy the civil rights gains of the civil rights movement. She's like, no, I don't want to be involved with you. Has custody of the kid, which is, which is. You know, on his part, breaking a cycle. So I guess there's that. That said, whether or not he's a good parent is something that's going to depend on your own personal opinions on parenting. Friends say Thomas was so enraged at his ex-wife and in part by the fact that whenever she had the kid, he accused her of coddling him and of encouraging a learning disability. So he's that kind of dad where he's like, you're being by being like, this kid clearly has a learning disability and, like, you're coddling him and you're not. Be it hard enough on him and making him work for it and all that kind of, you know it works on animals. Yeah. Why wouldn't it work with this thing again, given his grandpa hard to see him not being exactly right. And also like for you to be raised by such like a ******* cold, you know like shadowy figure of a grandpa have no like emotional or support or affection. And then, like, you merely just see like a mother and like child relationship and like you're coddling the kid. Hmm. Gotta slap him more. Gotta make him work without gloves. So you should see what you do. Like I said, you put a £225 dumbbells and in the front of a shopping cart, you put him in the seat and you put it down a steep hill and just see how he ends up. Just a crash test. Just a crash test. That's what you do. Yeah. Yeah, miles, I'm raising a kid right now. The kid doesn't know it and neither do the kids parents. But every day I sneak in and I put a lot of, what do you call it? Poison oak inside. You know, his clothes for the next day. And what's that? Teaching the kid? Is that life is like a series of blisters and you just got to work through the blisters. You know, little lessons like that really make them stronger. And some say it's wasted because the child is so young and not able to process the experience. But what you're saying is you said start them early, start them early, right? The only thing they will grow up knowing is the feeling of constantly being exposed to Poison Ivy, and that will make them strong and reject fast fashion. That's what I tell their parents. And the letters that I send anonymously anyway, so. Once he gets split up with his wife, Clarence Thomas engages in the normal divorce guy. Things. He gets super into physical fitness, right? Starts getting jacked, you know, all revenge body. Yeah, he gets the revenge body. And of course he throws himself into his work, which given the fact that he's always been a career guy, it means he gets like way, way more into his job and of course. You know, you can't just work out and work, right? Like, that's not an I know you and I, miles, are both just incredibly swole dudes. Ohh, you know, I mean, but, you know, you need something else. Gains. Absolutely. 100%. Absolutely. Look, I mean, they were saying the SEC's coming after me because of these gains. Yeah. Just because our pecks are literally large enough to host a tea ceremony on, like, doesn't mean that we don't do other things. I mean, I could and I and I'll do it from time to time. But yeah, every now and then complete. And Clarence Thomas. In addition to stacking gains and working, you know, he's got, he's got his his favorite hobby, which is *********** which he gets even more disastrously obsessed with. In the summer of 1982, shortly after he moves into his first bachelor pad, he makes friends with a coworker named Kay Savage, which is a pretty cool name. It's Kay with an E they were both joggers, and one day he agreed to take her shopping for running shoes, so, like, their work buddies and like, they'll go running from time to time and like, she's like, Oh my ******* my shoes are ****. Well, let's go out this weekend. We'll get some shoes. We're going to run. It'll be fun. So she picks him up from his apartment. He doesn't have a car at this point. He uses like a work vehicle to get to and from the office. He gets like chauffeured and stuff. So she has to come pick him up from his apartment to go shopping. And that's where this subsequent scene, which is related in strange justice, comes in and I'm going to read you a quote. Miles strap in for this one, buddy. So interior shoe store? No, no, no. This is when she comes to his house. So this is her first. On the way to go. OK, yeah, this is her first time seeing Clarence and his bachelor pad. Interior clearances. Bachelor pad. Ohh God, yes. He had only recently set up housekeeping, and the place, as she recalled, was still under furnished. There was little more than a mattress on the floor and a stereo. But one other feature made a lasting impression on Savage Thomas had compiled and placed on the floor, and this is her her speaking now, a huge, compulsively organized stack of Playboy magazines. Five years worth of them, organized by month and year. The walls of the apartment were also memorably covered. There was only one main room, but all of its walls, as well as the walls of the little galley kitchen and even the bathroom door, were papered with centerfolds of large breasted, nude women, Savage recalled, staring awkwardly about her. The display seemed so out of character with everything else she knew about Thomas. He was a fanatic about discipline and a daily churchgoer. He was serious about his career and honest to the point of indiscretion about his ambitious plans for the future. Thomas had told her, as he had told others, that he planned to replace Thurgood Marshall. His retirement from the Supreme Court, but as evident enthusiasm for *********** suggested to savage that Thomas had a private side that was very different from his public persona. To her, the contrast seemed, as she later put it, a little crazy. Oh dude, this dude has wallpapered his empty *** apartment in **** centerfolds. Which, if that is your like, if that's your thing, fine. But number one, you don't ever let anyone else see that apartment. Like, you sure don't invite your female coworker over and but you know, he thought that would. Maybe in his mind he's like, and that's when maybe Kay is cool, maybe Kay is chill with it. Yeah, way of just being completely inappropriate to invite. And also like, you know, like. When in films, when there's like a character that is a bunch of **** on their walls, you know, it's usually like some conspiracy theory ****. OK, so just because I have some pictures of the child that I'm raising distantly on the wall, Miles doesn't make me crazy. Yeah, and also, like, it's weird that you seem to have like a design of the house in CAD, like, as if you're making a whatever, that's another show. But I think when you see that in TV and film, usually it's like, this is what the inside of this character's head is like, right? Yeah, is what you see just. Plastered on the walls. And then to be like, Clarence Thomas is an existing at a steady hum of just ***** blasting inside of his skull. Yeah, that that's that's that's exactly it. It's a perfect reflection of what his thoughts are. And it's nothing but *********** bouncing around in there, right? Because, like, none of the legal decisions make sense. They sure don't wait, huh? Whoa. What? It's like it's *******. It's ******* wild, man. And it's also like, I'm sure there is because we're going to talk about Anita Hill later. He obviously, I think there is like a a voyeuristic. I think he gets off on like putting women that he works with in uncomfortable situations, Visa V ***********. And maybe part of how he protects himself is by also talking to **** to all of his coworkers. Or maybe he's kind of into doing it to everybody, right? But like, this goes beyond, look, again, nothing wrong with ****. I know a lot of people who like ****. I don't know anyone who does this, right? Like nobody does this. And this is clearly like you like. To your point. Like that. This is how he just violates people. And that's it. That's his way of doing it is to be like, surprise ****. I don't care what you think is appropriate or not. Like, I'm. This is this is it. Welcome. This is the talking about it or you're surrounded by it. Yeah. If you're gonna be around Clarence Thomas, you can't get away from the ****. Now, Kay, questioning about Jenny. It's like all I can think of now is like, yeah, we'll talk about Jenny a little bit. There's not going to be as many answers as you're hoping for. No, no, I can. I can only imagine. But. Yeah. Sorry, but so, so Kay sees this nightmare apartment, which by the way folks, the correct thing to do when you step into your colleagues apartment and see that is to leave if you have, if you have a gun, pull it and keep it on them until you're safely clear if the apartment, because that person is probably going to murder you. But no, Clarence Thomas tells her she like, so she's obviously you're OK in this situation. You have to be gentle about how you question Clarence about this because this is clearly an unhinged person. And she she does question him gently. And he's like, well, **** is my only vice. And since I don't drink or run around like, this is fine, right? Like, I'm not. I'm not going out sleeping with people. I'm not going out and partying. All I do is enjoy my ****. What's the problem? And he also told her that his magazines were all he had that was worth taking from his ruined marriage, which he has joint custody of the kid, like, Oh no. So that's a little messed up. Wow, now? Yeah, now. Maybe he was telling the truth about, like, not drinking and partying. That might be true. There are people who were with him at the time who claims no. He was also lying about that. One of them is his former girlfriend, Lillian McEwen. She says that he was not honest about the whole not drinking thing. In 1991, she went on the Larry King Show and said that when the two had dated in the early 1980s, he was, quote, a raving alcoholic, and that when he quit drinking he turned into a quote angry, obsessive man who bullied his son and I'm going to quote from CNN here when he gave up alcohol, she said he became angry, short tempered, asexual and obsessive with ambition and what she called weird things, such as long runs in the dark before Dawn McEwen. Did back up the allegations of his weird **** thing, calling it quote something that was very important to him and something that he talked about. So that's weird. That's that's that's some stuff about about Clarence Thomas that I bet you didn't want to know. Definitely, you know, everything in moderation, but not for clearance. And it's hard to take someone seriously who's like, yeah, I don't. That's my only advice. No, actually, you have a lot of other vices. You have a horrible drinking problem and you use your kid. Yeah. But like you allegedly. Sure. Right. Yeah. That's that's that's very interesting. Very interesting. Yeah. And again, behavior, obviously, in terms of like, what you should take with a grain of salt, she is, like, going on the Larry King live show and talking on live TV about this. So I, you know, maybe maybe she's not entirely coming at this from an honest point of view. I don't know. Whatever. Or she's like, well, who else can I tell about this maniac who might become a Supreme Court Justice? I don't know what you do if you're in her situation and you have that experience, what she's saying. Doesn't sound separate from the person that many, many coworkers have talked about. Yeah, at the very least there are many inconsistent descriptions of this. Yes, in May of 1981, Clarence Thomas was nominated by the Senate to take the position as chairman of the EEOC, his old stomping grounds. He was confirmed a few months later, and he held that position from 1982 to 1990. So this is the primary thing he does in his entire career prior to becoming a Supreme Court Justice. This is the longest. Stretch of employment and a single job that he has in his career prior to like getting on the court. So while this is happening, while while he is being the chairman of the EEOC, the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission thingamajigger well, that's going on. A doddering old man named Ronald Reagan decided it was time to nominate a new justice to the Supreme Court due to Reagan's eight years of executive domination and the fact that it looked like George HW Bush was about to basically be Reagan term #3 progressives and liberals alike were worried that the Supreme Court. Is about to take a hard right turn. Can you imagine how scary that would be, miles? Hmm. Ohh, no. So people were concerned. In July of 1987, Reagan announced that his nominee was going to be Circuit Court Judge Robert Bork. Now, does that name mean anything to you, miles? Yeah. OK, so you have heard of Robert Bork. You're you're aware of some of the sister. OK, good, good, good. That name. I don't. I don't know how many other folks that that's like a thing that's familiar to. If you grew up right wing. His name was kind of a rallying cry. For like generations of right wing media, hobgoblins book was in short description a *** **** judge. He had argued that political speech was the only kind of speech protected by the 1st amendment. He ruled in favor of a company who had forced their employees to undergo sterilization to keep their jobs. He had opposed the Civil Rights Act in 1964 for so long and with such vehemence that it's fair to assume he just hated certain colors of people. And at one point he argued in favor of a poll tax because it was quote. Very small. So Robert bork. Pretty bad judge. Yeah. Yeah. Pretty. Yeah. He's yeah. We had and and he even became shorthand for award. Ohh, yes, we are talking about the shorthand. But you know, we're talking about first Miles, products, services, all that good stuff. Yes, miles, you love products, don't you? And do you happen to like services? Oh my God. Oh, Oh yeah. That's the ****. That's what gets my *******. Art is a good old fashioned service, couple of products with it. Anyway, service me Lord, get your ******* hard with these ads. Mint Mobile offers premium wireless starting at just 15 bucks a month. And now for the plot twist. Nope, there isn't one. Mint Mobile just has premium wireless from 15 bucks a month. There's no trapping you into a two year contract. You're opening the bill to find all these nuts fees. There's no luring you in with free subscriptions or streaming services that you'll forget to cancel and then be charged full price for none of that. For anyone who hates their phone Bill, Mint Mobile offers premium wireless for just $15.00 a month. Mint Mobile will give you the best rate whether you're buying one or for a family and at Mint. 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A therapist can help you become a better problem solver, which can make it easier to accomplish your goals, no matter how big or small they happen to be. So if you're thinking of giving therapy a try, better help is a great. Option it's convenient, accessible, affordable, and it is entirely online. You can get matched with a therapist after filling out a brief survey, and if the therapist that you get matched with doesn't wind up working out, you can switch therapists at anytime. When you want to be a better problem solver, therapy can get you there. Visit betterhelp.com behind today to get 10% off your first month. That's better helpp.com/behind betterhelp.com/behind. This fall on revisionist history, is there anything that we haven't talked about, or I should have asked you or you'd like to add that seems relevant? You should have asked me why I'm missing fingers on my left hand. A story about sacrifice. I think his suffering drove him to try to alleviate suffering. And the shocking discovery I made where I faced the consequences of writing a book I thought would help people? Isn't that funny? It's not funny at all. It's depressing. Very depressing. Revisionist history is back with more. Listen to revisionist history on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. I've never seen less enthusiasm for a great idea in my life. Ah, we're bad. Hi, everybody, how's it going? So we've got Robert Bork *** ****. Judge Ronald Reagan nominates this man to be a Supreme Court Justice. And Senator Ted Kennedy, the number 2 Ted K in this podcast, takes to the Senate floor to warn that putting Bork on the Supreme Court would mean an into Roe versus Wade and a return to segregated lunch counters. He said that if Bork were appointed quote, the doors of the federal courts would be shut on the fingers of millions of citizens for whom the judiciary is. And is often the only protector of the individual rights that are at the heart of our democracy. Now, in addition to being a howling fascist, Bork was a pretty well respected law guy in law guy circles, because law guy circles are mostly made-up of ******** he had taught at Yale. His students had included Bill and Hillary Clinton as well as Anita Hill and Jerry Brown. Many on the right were very much fans of his Circuit Court rulings, which included Dronenburg V Zeck where he and Justice Scalia. This is before Scalia was on the Supreme Court either had ruled that there was no right to privacy that protected the right to have homosexual sex during a case over prayer in school in reference to a Jewish person who was forced to engage in Christian prayer. Robert Bork said So what? I'm sure he got over it. He's like a ******* cartoon. Yeah, bad judge. I would say. Not my kind of judge. You know who my kind of judge is? Who? That judge from The Who framed Roger Rabbit. That's a good judge I support now I look miles, for years and years I've been saying that the primary crisis we as a society have is the expansion of Toontown, and I I agree. We have to get rid of those tunes, miles. Oh, absolutely. We've got a turpentining their *****. The thing is the people. The, I guess, if you want to call them people that live in Toon Town. Sitting on such a bed of resources that they are unable to use properly. And that's right. Properly because they're so. I don't wanna say it. Not advanced. They're so primitive. That's right. And they think they're better off. Thank you for saying, yeah, I think they're better off being relocated. I agree. I agree. So there's lots of vendors actually used properly. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Tons of desert. Anyway, this is a not very farm. ************ of cartoons. Podcast. Who supports? What's his name? I forget the name of the judge in that movie. It's played by Doc Brown. Yeah, well, you all know. So the 1980s, the first decade. Also the decade in which we get who framed Roger Rabbit, if I'm not mistaken, are the first decade in which Supreme Court hearings like, are a thing. Baron von Rotten, Judge Doom. There you go. Thank you. So we don't really have, like, public hearings for Supreme Court justices. Prior to the 80s, and in fact prior to the 80s, it had been pretty uncommon for Supreme Court nominees to, like, go before the Senate and answer questions at all. Bork is the first nominee ever to get a televised Senate hearing, which doesn't make things better, because maybe it's bad to do stuff like this. Maybe it inherently turns it into like, a media circus that that, like, puts it to the worst impulses of everybody. But whatever. So the first. America's first. Experience like watching a Supreme Court like nomination hearing is seeing Ted Kennedy, like, go after Robert Bork while he's up in front of the Senate. And by October, you know the thing. The good thing about this is by October a majority of Americans oppose Bork's nomination. So he actually, he comes in probably having the job locked down. And the fact that this is all televised means that most people are like, oh, this guy's a ******* maniac. So I guess you could say then that part that. The televised Supreme Court hearings were a good thing. He gets rejected on October 23rd by a vote of 58 to 42. But here's where the problem comes in. The right cries foul, which they do whenever anything happens, even when they get their way, because it consistently works for them. Now, in their minds, Bork had been unfairly pilloried, subject to the political equivalent of a mob beating. There are comparisons to a lynch mob, which, by the way, Robert Bork probably thinks is fine. Because he's that guy. And but whatever the fat case, the the sense of grievance over Bork's nomination gets burned deep into the conservative soul. And it is it is still smoldering a few years later, in 1991, when a woman named Florence Kennedy tells a national Organization of Women Conference that when it comes to cut Clarence Thomas, who is the next Supreme Court nominee, quote, we're going to bork him. We're going to kill him politically, this little creep. Where did he come from? So that is how borking. It becomes a thing that people talk about. I also love the troll job that we got out of that because he was like, no one has privacy rights and then they're like, here's your video rental history. Yeah. And they're like, because no one has privacy rights, right. And then they're then we get like the Video Privacy Act out of that too. He's just the gift that keeps on giving. He is. He is. We've gotten everything. Thank you, Clarence. So since then, according to Vox quote, in January 2001, the New York Times even featured a chart of quote likely bore keys. And they're probably score on the board cometer referring to political nominees for high level positions within the Bush administration. John Ashcroft, for instance, received 9 borks. Now, you might note that John Ashcroft did not get borked. Most of these guys don't. It's it's just like a term that gets used, probably because work is fun. It is fun to say to say Bork, fun to type Bork. I get it. Like if you're in New York Times columnist, most of your job is going to be pretty, pretty dull, and you get to use the word Bork. You know, why not? You know what I just realized there's, I'm pretty sure in 40 year old virgin, that's what Steve Carell says when he's playing the poker game and he's like lying about being a virgin. They're like, yo, you a virgin? Like, no, I've borked plenty of women and Seth Rogen's like, you've borked. It's just like this one line and I'm like, what? Yeah, I haven't seen that movie in a minute. Then I'm like, I always just thought of it. I'm like, wow, are you getting is is Steve Carell showing is like 40 year old like 80s sprain credit in there. OK, so he's appreciation thinking about. Yeah, has that movie aged? Is that? Is that one? Is that one still good or is that one of those ones that you feel great about? Yeah, flawless. Flawless, flawless flow. That's that's good. Just like other classic films, you don't need to talk about Jim Carrey's ubra. So Borking is now viewed as a widely used practice among both Republicans and Democrats, although it generally means attempting to bring down a high level candidate with, quote, personal attacks on something seemingly irrelevant to their jobs, even though that's not what anyone. Did Bork because the attacks were extremely relevant to the fact that he was basically a fascist? Like couldn't have been more relevant to the guy Bork was these attacks. But, for example, Bill Clinton's first choice for Attorney General, Zoe Baird, was borked in 1993 when news came out that she had hired an undocumented immigrant as nanny for her children and her nomination gets withdrawn. Which is, I guess, a borking if you're talking about it being irrelevant. Because. I don't know. I don't think that has a lot to do with it. I yeah, unless she's like super anti undocumented immigration, in which case then it is relevant. But I don't think she was right. So but again, it's also like, hold on, like how many of your businesses are doing the same thing? Like, well, nobody wants to answer that question, Miles. Yes, exactly. Don't worry about it. It's don't do as I do, just as I say. Yeah, I do. So the largest political consequence of the borking of Robert Bork was that the the Reagan administration? Massively. Let down the right wing of the Republican Party, right? Because Bork, they ******* love Bork like the ******* wing nuts are all about this guy. And he doesn't get in and they feel like Reagan didn't fight enough for him, right? They feel like the rhinos let them down and didn't push this guy. So Reagan does get another justice in it's I forget exactly which ******* one it is, but they're they're not a lunatic. And so the right wing gets very angry about that. And this wasn't Kennedy. Yeah, I think it was Kennedy. And so conservatives start to feel like, well, we are owed a right wing justice, we didn't get what we are owed. This is our dude. And that, my man, is where Clarence Thomas comes again. And so freaky too, or the make good for Bork is Clarence Thomas. Yeah. We feel like we deserve a guy who hates civil rights and wants to turn the the the clock back 100 years. And we wanted this, like, howling white nationalist. But instead, we'll take Clarence Thomas. Yeah. And now you got Neil Gorsuch and Bork Kavanaugh and Amy Bork, Bork and Garrett. And I don't know. I don't know. I think if I made a joke about borking them, it would probably wind up getting us on some lists. Sophie, hi. Hi. How you doing? Good. Getting on some lists and sick nightclubs. Hmm. Excellent. So we should probably talk a little bit now about the man Clarence Thomas replaced on the Supreme Court. They're good with the borking. That's it. Right out of your system. I I did, Sophie. Thank you. I got it out. Call me. Just making sure we're all good here. I made a lot of actionable threats in my basement before coming up here. So we're we're fine. OK. Cool. Cool. Cool. And yeah, yeah. And now we're moving on to to somebody that's really awesome. Or. Yeah, Thurgood Marshall was pretty, pretty based, actually. Sophie, pretty dope. Also love what you said earlier, Robert. When you were talking you you threaten SCOTUS. And he said I'm coming for all of you. Call me Ernest Borgnine. That's right. That's right. That's right. I did say that. Miles, I gotta go, man. Hilarious. Leave me alone. Thurgood Marshall's number one, probably the best name a judge has ever had. That's a judge name. Like, if you're like a third grade teacher and a kid comes into your class named Thurgood Marshall, you're like, well, ************ is going to become a judge, right? Like, that's basically like, what? You know. You don't get to be like, you don't get to be Thurgood Marshall and be like, I don't know, like a like a like a like a chemistry teacher or like a like a even. You couldn't be like a nurse or Thurgood Marshall's like if I went to the hospital. And I I you came across a nurse named Thurgood Marshall did get the **** out of here. You're supposed to be a judge. Go get go get into a courtroom. Like, hold on. You're telling me NFT's? Yeah, no, you're like Marshall. Way off track. Get your *** in some robes. That ****** a judges name. So pretty cool guy. They're good. Marshall. The year after Clarence Thomas starts public school, Marshall is the lawyer who wins Brown versus the Board of Education, which is one of the most consequential cases in legal history anywhere in the world. Marshall. The great grandson of an enslaved person himself wince, goes through the public education system. Unlike Thomas, he spends his entire education in segregated school. So he actually, like goes lives in entirely under segregation, is like a person who's being educated as a kid. He gets his law degree in 1933 from Howard University, and he becomes a litigator for the N Double ACP in Brown. His most famous case, he argued re segregation. That quote, this court should make it clear that it is not what our Constitution. Stands for. He was a believer in the Constitution as a living document, one that could be used to push for greater equality and liberty for all. As a lawyer for the N double ACP, Marshall won several landmark Supreme Court cases and Smith V alright. He helped overturn long standing rules that made it illegal for black people to vote in party primary elections in certain states that used to be legal for parties like they're the party in. Like whatever state to be like. No, no we don't. You guys don't get to vote in the primaries. Only white people can vote in the primaries. In Shelley V Kramer, he forced the court to rule against laws that restricted non white people from purchasing homes in specific neighborhoods. And in sweat V painter, he got the court to rule that universities could not reject applicants based on race. All of which is like pretty cool **** right? And also, like, it's just wild too. Like, these aren't complex legal arguments. He's like, yeah, how about like we don't do this **** and they're like, this seems racist as **** and everybody says, wow, you are the first person to say that. In the United States Council. What is your argument that this is racist trash? Hmm. OK, I rest my we're very pro racist trash. So, and see, that's the ******* problem. Yeah. OK. We can't be doing that anymore. Ohh, interesting. Fascinating argument. No one has made this before. Thurgood Marshall, perhaps. Perhaps we are all human he is. You might look at Thurgood Marshall as the guy that Clarence Thomas told his grandfather he wanted to be. Right. In addition to just being, like one of the coolest guys to ever be associated with U.S. government in any capacity, like, just a a pretty, pretty dope, dude, all things considered. Yeah, like, if like, yeah, people in American politics were like wrestlers like the belt that they're good Marshall would run into the arena with. Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, they're good. Marshall's the guy who like racism is, like doing his, doing his little patter on stage for the audience. And then Thurgood Marshall comes in and hits him with a *******. Oh yeah, bogard. Wow, exactly the understand exactly what happens, yeah. So it's probably worth noting that two of the three cases that we just talked about arose from lawsuits in the state of Texas. I do feel like that's worth acknowledging. OK, bring Texas right back in. Yeah, I'll never far when we're talking about racism. If this had been the total of Marshall's career, he would go down in history as one of the most influential legal minds ever. But all of that was just a prelude. On August 30th, 1967, the Senate confirmed him as the first Black Supreme Court Justice in a 69 to 11. Floor vote I want to quote now from a write up by the N double ACP on Marshall's quarter century. On the Court's quote, Marshall fought for affirmative action for minorities, held strong against the death penalty, and supported a woman's right to choose if an abortion was appropriate for her. The civil rights lawyer turned Supreme Court Justice made made a significant impact on American Society and culture. His mission was equal justice for all. Marshall used the power of the courts to fight racism and discrimination, tear down Jim Crow segregation, change the status quo, and make life better for the most vulnerable in our nation. O you know, real ******* cool guy, huh? Pretty cool guy. Do you know, ask getting all that **** done. OK, you know who else is a cool guy? Miles. Ohh. I know the products and services that support this podcast. They also want to change the status quo in your wallet. And I heard Thurgood Marshall would have used all of them. Yeah, that's right. That's right. Every product we have on this show is. Buy the ghost of their good Marshall just positing that casually and honestly, I I feel like Thurgood Marshall probably would use that website. So I don't know. Ohh yeah. And you know what he wouldn't use is any products sponsored by the Pod Save America people. None of those just behind the Basters products. Absolutely. He said that to me at a seance. Yeah, that's that's he started doing is making merch, right. It's their good Marshall and it's in a quote says I **** with cool zone, not crooked. That's right. That's right. **** em. That's what Thurgood Marshall would probably say. Sophia, we allowed to do that? No? OK, well, we did it. So here's the odds. Mint Mobile offers premium wireless starting at just 15 bucks a month. And now for the plot twist. Nope, there isn't one. Mint Mobile just has premium wireless from 15 bucks a month. There's no trapping you into a two year contract. You're opening the bill to find all these nuts fees. There's no luring you in with free subscriptions or streaming services that you'll forget to cancel and then be charged full price for none of that. For anyone who hates their phone Bill, Mint Mobile offers premium wireless for just $15.00 a month. Mint Mobile will give you the best rate whether you're buying one or for a family and at Mint. And we start at 2 lines. 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And the shocking discovery I made where I faced the consequences of writing a book I thought would help people? Isn't that funny? It's not funny at all. It's depressing. Very depressing. Revisionist history is back with more. Listen to revisionist history on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. I've never seen less enthusiasm for a great idea in my life. Ohh, we're back, and we're talking about what products Thurgood Marshall would love. Yes. You know what I think, miles? I think they're good. Marshall would enjoy the convenience of Amazon Prime. You know, hearsay, but not hearsay. Yeah, you know what I I hear? 30 thugger Thurgood Marshall's perfect morning is to take his bird scooter down to Starbucks. Oh yeah, big Bird scooter guy. High 5. All of the very happy workers there and who don't need to unionize. No, not at all. And to remind them how good they have it because of his work. Yeah, right in the stand. Lassic Thurgood then throw the hot coffee in the face of the Amazon prime delivery person who's too late and slow with the elastic, reusable bandages that he needs for his dog's injured foot. That's right. That's right. And you know what else I think Thurgood Marshall would have liked is Netflix. And I want to quote. Now from from a A Supreme Court ruling in 1972, a majority opinion authored by Marshall quote I ******* love it. When I turn on an app and an immediately starts screaming at me just loudly playing a trailer that I didn't ask to play. That is my favorite thing. As Thurgood Marshall, Supreme Court Justice. Wow. Wow. Powerful, powerful. I love to hear that. Yeah. And also and then he also said and also this is like, I'm surprised you glossed over the second part of that quote, which is I for one. Would never share my password unless it's for guests within my home. 1 Password, one use per account. If Netflix ever becomes a thing in the future is what I think as Thurgood Marshall, Supreme Court Justice. His greatest regret for greatest regret is the Supreme Court Justice was not actually reeling in the rampant strimmer nals. Yeah, that's right, that's right. So. Yeah, as American men in positions of power go, Marshall's pretty much your best case scenario, right? Just just about the best legacy any any man with power has in in modern U.S. history. But by the later half of the Reagan administration, he is an old man. He is not in very good health. He has a bunch of ******* health problems, as most old people do. The court had taken a distinct rightward tilt in the last years that he served, and Marshall found himself constantly writing minority dissents. While the Reagan administration started to claw back some of the gains of the civil rights era, Umm. At a press conference he was asked how he wanted to be remembered and Marshall replied as someone who that he wanted to be remembered as someone who quote did what he could with what he had. Which is a very sad that yeah that's breaking **** that breaks my heart. You don't want that to be what the brown versus the Board of Education Guy sees as his legacy in the Reagan as as the Reagan years come to us as well because that's the excuse Joe Biden is using right now. Yeah, it is what it is. Come on, man. I'm doing what I can. What? I got ******* they're good. Marshall legitimately did everything he he reasonably could during away. He's like, **** man. They really they're yeah, they're packing this ************ in with these. Weird. Yeah. Yeah. Now, Clarence Thomas, for his part, seems to have hated Thurgood Marshall in the Enigma of Clarence Thomas. Corey. Robin Wright's quote, Thomas had dismissed Marshall's liberal views as exasperating and incomprehensible, his rendition of the Constitution as a race baiting vision that alienates all Americans. And pits blacks against the founders, which how do you not? Yeah. Also, yeah. Pit black people against the founders. Yeah, they were most most of them were pretty racist. So, yes, I guess, I guess they should be. Yeah, that's fine. I guess they're not that they should be. I guess the Founders pitted themselves against black people by owning them. No, no, no. They are much more passive in enslaving people. That's a passive activity. Yeah, it's it's fine. So, holy ****. Yeah, that's pretty bad, right? That's that's not good. That's not good. I would say so in Marshalls. Last years. Ronald Reagan appointed 4 Supreme Court justices. Sandra Day O'Connor, William Rehnquist, Antonin Scalia and Anthony Kennedy. And look, I don't like a lot of those folks, but I have to say all of those really good judge names, honestly. Oh yeah. Renquist is 1. Oh my God, what an incredible judge name. And Anthony Kennedy. Awesome judge name. Just really none of them are Thurgood Marshall level judge names. But those are all solid judge. Tony K yeah. Ooh, boy. Not just a ******* drug dealer out of rave. Yeah. Sandra. Hello, Connor. 2-3, you got to have three. You know, that's what really, that really drives it home. Daily honor. I mean, John Connor. Yeah, exactly. Feeling like Terminator. Which is interesting, right? Take it to Arnold Schwarzenegger. I believe his fake name and true lies was Harry Renquist. Oh, wow. See that? Wow, Miles, we're through the looking glass here. Yeah. Sorry, folks, I did mushrooms this weekend. A lot of memories are coming to the top. So despite how right Wing Scalia would turn out to be this selection of judges, and these are like. Over the course of the Reagan administration really ****** off American religious conservatives because all of those people are not right wing ghouls, right? They're kind of mostly more centrist and stuff in their actual rulings and and often interesting stuff. Yeah, with the exception of Scalia, most of them kind of move more towards the center in time, which really ****** off the far right. So again, with this and with Robert Bork, they see themselves as having been betrayed repeatedly by an administrator. Reagan came to power on the back of the religious right. He was supposed to be there. And they're like, you didn't give us everything we wanted. So when Reagan leaves office and George HW Bush becomes president, he gets a Supreme Court nomination and instead of picking a guy the right wing ******* loves, he picks a dude named Thomas Souter who is center right. And this is again, not enough. And and in fact, the right wing sees this is like the worst sin imaginable. And this is a real problem because, again, you have to get this guy confirmed. And at this point, they're like, pretty ******. Off uh Bush's chief of staff, John Sununu, manages to get the religious right in line behind suitor by promising that, hey, ******* Thurgood Marshall's not going to be around that much longer. When he quits, we will replace him with the worst ***** ** **** you can imagine. Like I ******* promise. This time we have your back. One more shot, man. Let's give us one more shot where we will get a ******* ghoul in there. I swear to God. I got a real real ****** hefty bag full of crap just baking in the sun, filling up with gas that I got for you're gonna love this one. You're gonna love this guy's got one. Speaking of nominative determinism. Determinism. John Sununu. That is the name of a ***** ** **** whose entire job is to like, whip fascists in behind. Like backing corporate tax breaks. Like, my God. That's the that's the name. You give that. Get John Sununu. Are you kidding me? Yeah. Anyway, it's it's it's not strong. It's not strong. You know, through the Reagan years and into the early Bush administration, Clarence Thomas, while he's doing his **** at the EEOC, worked relentlessly to burnish his St cred with the far right. This meant he had to do a lot of explaining away his past civil rights activism, which he accomplished deftly by pivoting to complaining about how bad the civil rights era had been for black people. And I'm going to quote now from The New Yorker. That's pretty good, right? That's pretty good. Oh my God, it's so disingenuous. What the ****. In his memoir, Thomas Notes that part of the appeal of black nationalism was tied to his sense, in the wake of the assassinations of Martin Luther King Junior and Robert F Kennedy, that no one was going to take care of me or any other black person in America. Eventually, this notion extended to the left. I marched, I protested, I asked the government to help black people, Thomas told The Washington Post in 1980. I did all those things, but it hasn't worked. The whole repertoire of black politics, from mainstream activism to black power radicalism and beyond. Now seemed pointless. By the 80s, Thomas, a member of the Reagan administration, believed that state action could do nothing for African Americans. Problems of racial inequality cannot be solved by law, even civil rights laws, he told an audience at Clark College, a historically black school in Atlanta, in the 1980s. In a 1987 speech to the Heritage Foundation, Thomas stated his belief that principled conservatism should, quote, make it clear to blacks that conservatives are not hostile to them, but instead that conservative views are the only real way to support. Black success. He repeatedly stated his belief that if you could get the whole racial issue out of the left right paradigm, most black people would see that they were really conservative. I mean, there's some truth to elements of that. There are. There is some truth. That's part of why it's worked, yes. Yeah. The amount of work this guy. My God. Yeah. And maybe it's no work when you're a gold, like powered ****. He's saying that's rooted in truth. Yeah, man. A lot of, I wouldn't call it the left, but the most liberals don't really want to do anymore than use like, race and and civil rights is like a ******* whipping boy issue to hurt the right. Like, absolutely there. There are a lot of false friends among the left in terms of civil rights advocacy for sure. Yeah. Yeah. The for like, liberals. It's more like being like a whiny guy being like, well, I mean, you really should be with us if you really think about it. Yeah. Without being like, but I'm not gonna do any of the work. Yeah, I'm not gonna ******* do any move towards liberation for you. But if you think about it like, you can't be with them, it's like there's, again, there's these elements of truth and then he's like, and so that's why I'm just, like, lining up behind the racists, right? And I think that's what makes it so OK. Well, yeah, it makes it also so, like, insidious, too. Like, you, you just find that little shred where you can say that's the truth and then, like, and that's how I justify the absolute ushering in of the hell world. Yeah, absolutely. Speaking of the hell world, most of the claims that Thomas made about the origins of his own conservatism were rooted in absolute bold faced lies about his background. And I'm going to quote again from strange justice. According to Sam Williams, Thomas's lack of gratitude for what his grandfather and the civil rights movement had done for him formed the beginning of an estrangement that became so irreparable. Two were barely on speaking terms at the time of Anderson's death in the spring of 1983. What made his grandfather's bitterness particularly Sharp was the sense that Thomas had betrayed him, according to Williams, who said that early on Thomas used to tell his grandfather he was going to be a civil rights lawyer and come back here and help his people. Instead, Thomas just helped Thomas. He saw that the money and career opportunities were on the other side. His grandfather was so disappointed he hardly spoke of Thomas in the later years. Yet in his public speeches, including his Supreme Court confirmation hearings, Thomas. Spoke often about how much he loved and admired his grandfather. It is likely that his sense of gratitude grew in the years after his grandfather's death. He did, after all, keep a photo of his grandfather on his desk at the EEOC. But both Sam Williams and WW Law also charged Thomas with distorting the truth about his upbringing for political effect. In an interview, law said I don't like talking about this because Thomas is local and that makes it very hard. He then shut his eyes and in an agitated voice added Thomas just said those things to make him seem black. But all along he's been making choices to benefit Thomas. And no one else. Yeah, that sounds about right, Mr Lizard brain. Yeah. And just like, OK, I don't like the time to actually express like, love and admiration for my grandfather is publicly in books even though we're not really talking. Because I think the fact that my grandfather was a **** *** and mean will sell with conservatives 100%, even though he was a committed civil rights activist. For all of his flaws, like, I am going to paint him as like, the the Platonic ideal of a right. Getting Dad because he was * ****. It's so opportunistic. And you just see, like, whenever there's an opportunity to, you know, create or add more weight to the myth about him, like he's willing to do that. Absolutely anything. Yeah. But you know what, miles? I don't know. I don't know what miles, you know, what I do know is that it's time for you to give your plegables well. I don't know, you know, just steal some catalytic converters to be. Yeah, yeah, Jack. A ******* catalytic converter. Yeah, I think, I think we can all agree on that. Ohh, that's what I wanna plug. I got a new. I have a new. It's a new shirt that I made. It's designed for people who steal catalytic converters because that has a rigid back plate with wheels so they can just immediately you see some get on your back, slide under, clip it, you're out. Hop in there, homie, civic. And you're off, baby. They're called cat shirts. Uh, check them out at cat shirts. dot meow. That's how I throw the authorities off. But it's for stealing catalytic converters. Yeah, I mean that that website exists. Absolutely absurd. dot meow. You know my story. I I think it's only fair here to quote Thurgood Marshall once more, who said in a in a 1977 ruling quote, I dream of the day in which a man is able to steal a catalytic converter in less than 90 seconds. Even if the car has skid plates protecting it, wow. There it is again, ahead of his time. Ahead of his time. Absolutely. And your product is ahead of the rest of the market. Yeah. So follow us at catchers. Meow on all over. And if you're interested in me, the creator of the product that check me out at miles of Grey on Twitter and Instagram. And remember to me on my other show, daily Zeitgeist, where we talk about all kinds of tips for stealing those cat converters. And remember folks, every car that is capable of driving is a policy. Failure. Steal more cats. There it is. Yeah, we did it. We did it. Everybody. Hello, I'm Erica Kelly from the podcast Southern Fried True crime, and if you want to go from podcast fan to podcast host, do what I did and check out spreaker from iheart. I was working in accounting and hating it. Then after just 18 months of podcasting with Spreaker, I was able to quit my day job. Follow your podcasting dreams, let's break her handle the hosting, creation, distribution, and monetization of your podcast. Go to spreaker.com. That's spreaker.com. Hey there, it's Ebony Monet, your co-host for the San Diego Zoo's Amazing Wildlife podcast. In this special episode, we're speaking with Doctor Jane Goodall about the fascinating journey that led to her impactful behavioural discoveries on chimpanzees. It wasn't until one of the chimpanzees began to lose his fear of me, but I began to really make discoveries that actually shook the scientific world. Listen to amazing wildlife on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Sisters of the Underground is a podcast about fearless Dominican women who stood up against the brutal dictator Cadfael Trujillo. He needs to be stopped. We've been silent and complacent for far too long. I am Daniel Ramirez, and as a Dominicana myself, I am proud to be narrating this true story that is often left out of the history books through your has blood on his hands. Listen to sisters of the underground wherever you get your podcasts.