There’s a reason the History Channel has produced hundreds of documentaries about Hitler but only a few about Dwight D. Eisenhower. Bad guys (and gals) are eternally fascinating. Behind the Bastards dives in past the Cliffs Notes of the worst humans in history and exposes the bizarre realities of their lives. Listeners will learn about the young adult novels that helped Hitler form his monstrous ideology, the founder of Blackwater’s insane quest to build his own Air Force, the bizarre lives of the sons and daughters of dictators and Saddam Hussein’s side career as a trashy romance novelist.
Thu, 15 Aug 2019 10:00
Part Three: The Apostle of Fascism
Hello, I'm Erica Kelly from the podcast Southern Fried True crime, and if you want to go from podcast fan to podcast host, do what I did and check out spreaker from iheart. I was working in accounting and hating it. Then after just 18 months of podcasting with Spreaker, I was able to quit my day job. Follow your podcasting dreams, let's break or handle the hosting, creation, distribution, and monetization of your podcast. Go to spreaker.com. That's spreaker.com. Hey there, it's Ebony Monet, your co-host for the San Diego Zoo's Amazing Wildlife podcast. In this special episode, we're speaking with Doctor Jane Goodall about the fascinating journey that led to her impactful behavioural discoveries on chimpanzees. It wasn't until one of the chimpanzees began to lose his fear of me, but I began to really make discoveries that actually shook the scientific world. Survive on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. In the 1980s and 90s, a psychopath terrorized the country of Belgium. A serial killer and kidnapper was abducting children in the bright light of day. From Tenderfoot TV and iHeartRadio, this is La Monstra, a story of abomination and conspiracy. The story about the man who simply become known as. Lamaster. Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Words strung out my cohost. Yeah, we are all ruined right now. I am trying my best. I'm fascinated by it. I just gotta get more to this caffeine I'm doing. I'm great. I I feel Cody's been so cold. Brew coffees and sunflower seeds and Starbucks spritzers. I have repeatedly failed to. I'm trying to get these throwing bagels to land and stay on top of the soundboard on the ceiling, but I can't quite arc them over this. It's been a long time and I don't want to. I don't want to say how many times Katie's going to take a shot. She's at a good angle. Oh yeah, didn't want baby don't tell anybody. That's right. Just let me take care of it. Those sound boards for us. Yeah, so this way, if women don't win the presidential election, they at least put throwing bagels on top of a sound award. Where they belong was impeccable aim. It really was perfect kind of Arc. Let's talk about what a feminist icon I am for enabling you to do that. You know what, Robert? Let's you and me talk about why family sitcom. Yeah, I couldn't have done it without you guys. I mean, you handed me the bagel. Can you I, I wanna, I want. Like a a Rosie the Riveter poster that says I couldn't have done it without you guys. That's another merch boy. Chapter 3. The apostle of fascism, yeah. What a great chapter names, not a mediocre ones too. Kind of a mix? Well, we got to celebrate the good one. We got to celebrate the good ones. If the international fascist movement has a single founding father, that man would be George Lincoln Rockwell. George took the ideologies and the hateful, vicious drive to exterminate and dominate that Adolf Hitler established, and they found a way to let them function in a post World War Two world after the war, fascism had lost its ability to attract a mass audience. In the United States. It was seen as the ideology that had torn the world apart. Because it was. People wouldn't show up to Nazi party meetings or pay dues or vote as fascists, and so Rockwell instead focused on generating media attention with the few men he actually had at his disposal. He picketed civil rights marches, wielding science covered in racial slurs and trusting the police to defend him and his outnumbered crew. Even if he could only get nine or ten men to March with him, the rage and violence is signs inspired and counter protesters would guarantee massive media coverage. He spoke at colleges for the same reason, knowing that protests and attacks caused by his presence would get him in the papers and ensure. A steady stream of donations. Rockwell positioned himself as a free speech crusader, since arguing to the public about his desire for genocide would have been way less appealing. These are all, of course, tactics that modern fascists used today. Yeah, you know, I knew it sounded familiar. Besides, the last time we were here to talk about him talked about this. Yeah, but the fascist movement has evolved considerably since GLR days. While many of the tools he pioneered are still very effective, his obsession with Nazi imagery, and the swastika in particular, was doomed. There's hopes of rebuilding a mass movement. You'd started to realize this near the end of his career. In 1996, he came up with a brilliant slogan, white power, which he had printed up on T-shirts and protest placards. He worked the phrase into his speeches in Chicago, where he arrived to counter protest. Martin Luther King junior. Now, we already talked about this one as well, but Doctor King was in the city to organize a protest, advocating for more public housing and traditionally white and thus more affluent parts of the city. For the first time in his career, Rockwell was able to strike a nerve with a large number of white Americans by focusing on their fear and resentment of black people. On August 6th, 1966, Martin Luther King Junior led a group of marchers through Gage Park. He was met by a huge crowd of counter protesters, organized and radicalized by George Lincoln Rockwell. They numbered more than 2500. The crowd carried placards and banners and blazoned with Rockwell quotes like join the White Rebellion and we worked hard for what we got. Thousands of furious voices chanted white power at King and his comrades. It marked the most violent and vicious reception doctor King ever received. It also marked the high point of Rockwell's career. It was shot dead a year later, his dream of fomenting a white revolution. Would not die with him. It lived on in his apostles and chief among them was a man named William Luther Pierce. Always got three names, these guys. Pierce was born in Atlanta, GA on September 11th, 1933. Another 911, yeah. His father, also, William Luther Pierce, died in a car accident when he was eight years old. His mother had to scramble to support him and his younger brother. Leonard Zeskind, author of the crucial Book Blood and Politics, suspects her background heavily influenced the fascist that Pierce would become. Quote Marguerite's biological father had run off when she was a child, leaving her fatherless until Marguerite's mother remarried. The new stepfather was a Jewish man from New York who had moved S and Marguerite had a better relationship with him. William Pierce's story thus begins with his own absent father and his mother's. Appetite to a Jewish stepfather, Marguerite moved about the South with her two young sons in tow. From those travails, William Pierce claimed that he learned the virtues of self-discipline and the importance of delaying immediate gratification for a greater goal. Values, he said, that became constant themes in his life. So Pierce worked as a child to help his mom feed their family. He would later write that his difficult upbringing made him into the man he became. I think this external discipline, this external control, being forced over a long period of time to do things they didn't want to do but were necessary to do, help me to develop self-discipline. A lot of children these days never learn that. It's amazing how many adults can't do that they can't stick at a job they don't want to do. Yeah, that's true. Hmm. It's weird because you get the feeling from him that he kind of wanted to do the naziism thing. Yeah, which is actually, it's interesting for a couple of reasons, which we'll get to because, yeah, young Bill was clearly a brilliant boy. He did well in high school and went to a Military Academy in Bryan, TX from 1949 to 51. He earned a job there cleaning the chemistry lab stockroom, and that job wound up stocking would become a deep love of science. William went to college and then Graduate School where he studied to become a physicist who worked at the Jet Propulsion Lab in Pasadena for a year. And married Patricia Jones, who was also a brilliant mathematician. The couple moved to Boulder and Pierce finished his doctorate in physics in 1962. His dissertation had something to do with nuclear dipole and electric quadrupole resonance, which I do not know what that means. No thank Nazi stuff. No, apparently not. Apparently nothing. Nazis in his physics dissertation? Yeah. No, I think it's just classic. Yeah, physics. He stuff classical physics, but like classical neoclassical physics. Neoclassical physics. Pierce got a job as an assistant professor of physics at Oregon State University in Corvallis. They always go through Oregon. Yeah. He and his wife had twins, and they settled into what seemed like it would be a perfectly dull, normal, happy, healthy life, Pierce later wrote. Until there was 30 years old, I had hardly given a thought to politics, to race, or to social questions. That changed after he started working at Oregon. That university. He began showing up at meetings of the John Birch Society. Yeah, yeah. Cody hissing like Nosferatu back there. Classic John Birch response. What is it about the John Birch Society? No, no, like, just that area for, I don't know, Oregon keeps coming up in this. Like it wasn't intentional, but like it's the fascist movement in the US. Always runs through ******* Oregon. Yeah. Very weird. Yeah. I don't scatter intuitive for me, but. Something there, but I don't know what it is. Yeah, I don't know why it is either, but it's it's it happens enough that it's like, what the **** is this? Some there's some, there's something to figure out about that why you moved there? Well, in the last, like, 20 years, you know, there's this, like, idea of, like, trying to make a white homeland out there, but, like, but this is so much further, too. Yeah, that's weird. Just a fashy place, I guess. Yeah. Yes. Nazis love pine trees. But I love, you know? I love. These two does that make me a Nazi? Yes. This is the podcast where we all go. Oh God. Was I just radicalized by pine trees? Get your swastika on. Hey, we're just here to reclaim pine trees. Yeah, let's take pine trees from the Nazis taking it back. String them up on pine trees anyway. Probably shouldn't advocate for violence in this episode of the podcast, but all the other episodes, otherwise all the other ones, yeah. Now, the John Birch Society listeners may not have heard of these guys, but they're one of the most important organizations in the history of the American right. They're named after an American advisor in China who the group's founder, Robert Welch, considered to be the first American who died fighting communists. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's that's who John Birch was. Robert Welch, the guy who founded the organization, and John Birch Society publications encouraged the US to withdraw from the UN, urged the impeachment of Chief Justice Earl Warren, and accused former President Eisenhower of being a secret communist. Yeah, here's a line from one of their 1960s publications, the Blue Book, which William Pierce would certainly have read. Now, if the danger from the Communist conspiracy were all we had to worry about, it would be enough. But every thinking and informed man. Sense is that even as cunning, as ruthless, and as determined as are the activists whom we call communists, with a capital C, the conspiracy could never have reached its present extensiveness, and the gangsters at the head of it could never have reached their present power unless there were tremendous weaknesses in the whole body of our civilization's weaknesses to make an advance of such a disease so rapid in its ravages, so disastrous. Weird how communism has been, like, right on the edge of taking over America for, like, 70 years. Yeah, yeah, it's it's. Yeah, it's happening. It's gonna get around to it one of these days. Yeah. Robert Welch always denied that the John Birch Society had any anti-Semitic leaning, but many people suspected that some of the weaknesses Welch saw in American Society were in fact Jewish people. This is because John Birch Society propaganda was often very similar to the Third Reich's own propaganda. The Nazis also felt that communism was brought down on societies by hidden actors who weaken the state enough for a disease to advance upon it. The main difference between the two is that the Nazis named the Jews. Explicitly, and that John Birch Society did not, and in fact, Pierce's main issue with the Birch Society became that it wasn't willing to discuss the Jews or explicitly racist issues. The Birchers were far right, but they didn't want anyone to mistake them for literal Nazis, Pierce later wrote. Quote I quickly found out that the two topics on which I wanted an intelligent discussion, race and Jews, were precisely the two topics Birch society members were forbidden to discuss. Dance took a quick dip. I just wanna talk about Jews. What an intelligent conversation about race the Jews. Ohhh, Jesus. William Pearce maintained a successful career as a physicist while he devoured more and more John Birch propaganda. In 1965, he left the university and got a job in Connecticut working for the Pratt and Whitney Aircraft plant as a senior research associate physicist. He made good money and did well, but his coworkers described him as a real loner who worked poorly with others and seemed almost unable to manage subordinates. OK. Pierce's political leanings were kept more or less under wraps until the plants workers went on strike. This face to face contact with what Pierce considered communism infuriated him so much that he tried to drive his crowd through a picket of 1000 union men. Wow. Excuse me, we have questions. Is everything communism? Yes, yes, everything. Everything is coming and the proper response to communism. I just wanted to clarify it. Presumably they were protesting in a way that would have benefited him, right? These were like his coworkers. No, I think as a as a physicist working there, he was at a different level. These guys who were like kind of fun stuff. Yeah, we hit him with your ******* car. That seems that's a pretty big through line too. Yeah, yeah, hitting protesters with the car memes out there, yeah, yeah, that that has not changed at all in the last several decades in all cars. OK, it's not wrong. It's not wrong paying all cards except for mine. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Wait. Too much stuff in my car? Nope. Can I borrow your car? Yes. OK, then. I'm fine. It's fine. I I think I should be the one with the car. I think it should be the one with a gun. And then I could just make myself king just tooling around in a Prius with a rifle. Yeah, the one thing I know about Robert Evans, he loves kings. I'm a big fan of Kings King advocate. I mean, if I'm the king. Yeah, yeah. See, this is the problem. Yeah, that's that's how it happens. That's how it happens, how it happens. But if I but if I solve the problems, then. All right, back to the episode chapter. It's a chapter when it's back to the chapter. So, yeah, Pierce tried to run down 1000 people with his car. That did not work, and he he soon had to move on from his job. Which. Yeah, what a kind way to say that. Yeah. So since Pearson moved out to the East Coast, he used it as an opportunity to start visiting the American Nazi Party headquarters in Arlington, VA. He met a fella named George Lincoln Rockwell, and William and GLR got along quite well. Pierce found National socialism. Be a good fit with the beliefs he'd been developing since his move to Oregon. His only issue with Rockwell and the Nazis was, you know, all the Nazi stuff. Pierce thought that old fashioned fashion uniforms and swastikas made them look like they were larpers rather than serious revolutionaries. He didn't use the term larper, but he accused them of Hollywood antics, which is essentially the same thing. In May of 1966, Pierce resigned from his factory job and moved his family to Virginia. His wife, Patricia, started teaching university math so she could support her husband and his Nazi efforts. Weirdly enough, Patricia wasn't a Nazi and later divorced her husband for his beliefs. But for a time she seemed willing to like, like, humor him maybe, yeah, it's hard to. It's hard to pin down at first. Yeah, you probably didn't know exactly what it was, you know, because, like, obviously you're hiding your power level. And also you, you married the person, so you love them. You love who they used to be. And you're like, was it are you? Are you slowly turning into a Nazis? So divorce is just so hard to deal with. Power level always gets me. It does sound like a video game or a DND. I mean, it's that's they're all they're all I know. Fantasy ********. That's the fantasy ******** is exactly where this story leads. I was hoping so. Oh yeah, yeah, but you know where the story is going to lead right now? Turn out yeah, to an ad for the first I won. You did win. You did win. And you know what? As celebration for your victory, I'm going to try to throw this bottle of apple juice up onto the ceiling with the throwing bagels. It's a good idea. Great idea. Ooh, I didn't. I overshot it right over the rainbow feet, the one thing I like with six bagels? A tiny bottle of apple juice. Products. Mint Mobile offers premium wireless starting at just 15 bucks a month. And now for the plot twist. Nope, there isn't one. Mint Mobile just has premium wireless from 15 bucks a month. There's no trapping you into a two year contract. You're opening the bill to find all these nuts fees. There's no luring you in with free subscriptions or streaming services that you'll forget to cancel and then be charged full price for none of that. For anyone who hates their phone Bill, Mint Mobile offers premium wireless for just $15.00 a month. Mint Mobile will give you the best rate whether you're buying one or for a family and at Mint. Families start at 2 lines. 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I always feel like an ambassador for speaker. But that's because I'm passionate about podcasting. It's really easy to use. I always tell people I am so not tech. Took me 5 minutes to get comfortable with spreaker, and when I find a new friend that has an incredible show, I want them to make money. I want them to be able to do what I did. Follow your podcasting dreams. Let's break your handle the hosting, creation, distribution, and monetization of your podcast. Go to spreaker.com. That's spreaker.com. Get paid to talk about the things you love. Spreaker from iheart. In the 1980s and 90s, a psychopath terrorized the country of Belgium. A serial killer and kidnapper was abducting children in the bright light of day. His unspeakable crimes and the incompetence or unwillingness of the police to stop him brought the entire country of Belgium to the brink of revolution. From Tenderfoot TV in iHeartRadio this is la Monstra. The story of abomination and conspiracy that led to the demise of the entire institution of Belgian federal police and rattled the foundations of its government. A story about the man who simply become known as La Monster. Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We're back from maybe the best dad pivot in the podcasting game. It was so good. Frame of you shaking your head. Yes, frame it. Classic. Yes. Gesture dipped in gold side to side. I wish I had a gold covered bagel. Yes. What do you do? Throw it? That guy would be holes in the walls. Checking 20 pounds of gold cost. You are out of touch with the working man. I am definitely out of touch with the working man. You want to be king and throw gold around? OK. Seeing a different side of Robert Evans, this podcast has gone to my head now. I'm. I'm. I've. I've lost. I've lost. My classic. Robert Evans workingman's touch. Robert. Now you're the *******. I've always been the *******. There, OK, and I'm almost out of things to throw. We'll find something. Maybe I can just throw recording equipment so if he didn't shake your head now, we're good to do it. That's approval. No. No. Now William Luther Pierce was kind of a hard guy to get along with, which is probably not super surprising. He's not reported to by either of his kids, showing much emotional connection to them. His wives say that he was, like, also distant. The only thing he ever really seemed to love effusively were his Siamese cats and naziism. So big fan of cats, big fan of Hitler. Yeah, go figure. Siamese cats are like the worst cats. That's not true. That's not true. They're fine. And cats are fine a keg. Cats are good, yeah. OK, cats are good fans of behind the ******** yes, yeah, they would like this podcast. Didn't mean it. No, we know. We know Siamese cats are fine. They're just. I was originally picturing instead of Siamese cats that the Persian cats with the pushed in faces. Those are terrible cats. That's what I was picturing, a beanbag chair. Somebody threw a rock. Because you like those cats? Yeah? OK, that's not Persian, that's fake. It's not what you said. We're going to really offend some Persian cat owners today. Sorry, yeah, they shouldn't have made that mistake. You don't sound sorry. Sounded like you were being sarcastic when you said that. Well, I'm sorry that's what you perceived. OK, but went away. Now what do I think? I think we're derailing the story. Interesting. So Rockwell and Pierce embarked on a publishing venture together, putting out six issues of a Nazi magazine. But William refused to actually join the American Nazi Party until Rockwell changed its name from the American Nazi Party to the National Socialist White People's Party. He just needed it covered up a little bit. Just don't have the word Nazi and the White People's Party almost making it worse. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When Rachel was gunned down in the parking lot at Laundromat. Wanna transition? I love that he died that way, shut down next to a ******* lawn format, Rockwell, the way most Nazis should go. It is the movement he had spent his entire life crafting began to fracture. Nazis were then, now, and always. Catty *******. GLR had kept his party together by sheer force of Will, and even he hadn't done a very good job of that since he was murdered by one of his own men. Pierce stuck with an NSWP, which retained the most members after Rockwell's death. For a while he tried to take Rockwell's place, acting as the functional head of the party, writing all of its propaganda. Even speaking at university campuses, he did not have Rockwell's talent for drawing media attention. His only real success was saying that Nixon should be, quote, dragged out of his office and shot, which drew some coverage and got the FBI to start looking into him. It was also the truest thing he would ever say. That's great. Like, wow, yeah, that abbreviated it as NSWP not. It's not safe for work. Pee pee? That's not a joke. I just. I'm tired. You have the pee pees that are safe for work and the ones that aren't. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, I guess I just like pee pee. That's funny. Also funny that, uh, I mean, you know, even a Nazi clock is going to be right once a day. Wait, so wait, why did you want Nixon to be? Because Nixon was soft on the juice. Yeah, there it is. Oh my gosh. Which if you told Nixon, he would have said, no, I'm not. What can I do to fix that? Ohk himself from the rules. Oh my God, as we state this, that audio has just leaked out of Ronald Reagan saying horrible things about black people, Richard Nixon. And the most amazing thing about that is Richard Nixon's clearly uncomfortable with it on the line. You can hear him being like, don't like wanting to, like he doesn't bring it up. It's like he's like. Like, yeah, that time. Say that out loud. Yeah, you can't call the monkeys Jesus Christ. The reaction to that is so God. It's pathetic. Can't imagine anyone would even address it. I mean, they're like Reagan sites and and people just like, why? Why do we have to judge him on this? Like, well, if you have a person who's, like, been called racist for decades and then you've proven that he's racist, maybe you should, like, think about what about about like, why you're defending that guy and his. Whatever. Doesn't matter. We're talking. We're actually talking about the people who were dragged out of his office and shot. Yeah, and it would also have issues with Reagan for not. That kind of killing all the juice, yeah, yeah. So now during this period of the of the 1970s. Pierce became something of a tutor and a mentor to a fella named James Mason. Young James had joined Rockwell's American Nazi party back in 1966, when he was 14-2. Years later, at age 16, James got in trouble at school. He was disciplined by his principal and in retaliation started planning to go on a shooting spree and murder multiple members of his school's administration before carrying out his plan. The NSWP's headquarters wound up on the horn with William Pierce, or sorry, he called the NWP's headquarters. This kid plans to go on a school shooting. They calls the the the party before he starts shooting. He called the party was like, hey, I want to do this. Yeah, I want to do this. I want to shoot up the school. And William Pierce talks him down and Pearson instead convinces James Mason to move to Virginia and start working for the party and learn how to run a printing machine instead of committing a school shooting. Oh yeah, given what comes later than it's better. But actually, debatably given what comes later from James Mason, yeah, might have been better for the world if he'd shot up his school. OK, tell me what happen, right, because you're like, you're you're taking this kid and you're not dead. Radicalizing him, you're you're funneling you're channeling his anger and his naziism into into a propagandist. And yeah, and James Mason would go on to write a book titled Siege, which would provide them, that's in bolts inspiration for the terrorist group. Adam waffen. And a whole **** load of other schools. Yeah, sure, sure. .2 Canadian kids who are currently on the run in the middle of the wilderness. Right. Siege heads, as we call them. Yeah, so that's James Mason. Starts out wanting to be a school shooter, gets convinced by William Luther Pierce. No, no, no, no, no. I know what you're good at. You're either opting school shooters. God, what if instead you made 100 school shootings happen, right? Yeah. Yeah. As the 1960s wound to a close, William Pierce started to get frustrated with the NSWP mainly about the fact that it, again, was just too darn Nazi ish. He believed fascism needed an authentically American character and movement if it was going to have any chance of taking over the country. Just dressing up as Nazis was not going to cover it. He quit the party in July of 1970 and published a paper titled Prospectus for a National Front, which he circulated around neo-Nazi circles. Here's how it opened. America today, and more specifically the American people, face the most serious and deadly menace which has arisen in their entire history. This menace far overshadows that posed by any war we have fought and the economic catastrophe through which we have passed, or any previous domestic strife which has torn us. For today we are faced not just with a threat to our territorial integrity, or to our material possessions, or to our way of life, or even to our own lives, but to something far dearer today. All that we have ever been, and all that we ever might be, are race itself is threatened with extinction. OK, right on, man. Yeah, yes, yes. Famously doomed people, white Americans in 1970. It was a really tough decade for white people. Yeah, the dark, the dark ages and yeah, yeah, under, under attack and threat. I just the whole thing is like just under attack means, like, just who cares? Other people, too many other people get more rights and more attention. *******. Black people were moving on up. Exactly. That's the threat. That means that white people were moving on down. Exactly. It's the only way that it works. Only way. He went on to complain that none of the existing radical right wing organizations in the US had the ability to turn into a quote large scale revolutionary movement quote their long established an unbroken record of failure is the best evidence of this fact is not an inaccurate statement. Yeah, he attacked the movement for being filled with overgrown children and said in essence, we need to stop waiting around for a new Hitler. Rise up and unify all of our different little fringe groups. Instead of like, unite, unite the right. Ah, yeah, there it is. Instead, Pierce suggested America's fascists take a leaf out of communism's book and create a National Front, a large umbrella organization that could combine and coordinate all of the different far right groups and allow them to recruit people more easily without the baggage of swastikas and Klan robes. Towards this end, William Pierce established the National Alliance in 1974. We'll talk more about it throughout the book, but obviously the National Alliance. Not wind up being the trick to create a mass fascist movement in the United States. It was objectively more successful than Rockwell's American Nazi Party, though, drawing in thousands of members over the years since, generating millions in income. But it proved no more capable of creating a popular revolution than the A&P had been. However, buried in Pierce's prospectus was a very important paragraph that contained a realization far more critical than his National Alliance could ever become. Quote. About the only good thing which can be said of all these little groups is that they do generate quite a flood of pamphlets, leaflets, bulletins, newsletters and other printed materials which expressed some excellent sentiment. But even here it is largely an incestuous sort of affair in which the propaganda and the sentiment are circulated largely within the same vaguely defined movement in which they were born. Any real contact or report with the general population is absent, and this lack of contact with the public is not due simply to the problems of distribution or a lack of access to the mass media. Most movement literature would fail to evoke a sympathetic response. From the masses, even if it could be placed regularly in their hands, it is for the most part too esoteric, too introverted and too kooky to strike a responsive chord among the general public. Hi, dad. Dude. Racist. Too terrible. Too awful. I hate that. You're not right. It was. It was the racism wasn't the problem. The racism wasn't the problem. No. Yeah, it was. It was. It was. We'll get to what we'll get to. It works. So, you see, he's he's he started to realize that, like, our propaganda is not cutting it. We need to find a way to make Nazi propaganda that doesn't feel like Nazi propaganda so it can hit a broader chunk of the populace. Fight harder in the meme wars. Yeah, that's just smart. And Pierce is going to go on to be the guy who strikes the greatest blow in the meme wars. So Pierce correctly understood that to really make progress, American Fascism was going to have to craft propaganda that could infect the hearts and minds of normal white Americans. It would take years for peers to translate this insight into action, but when he did, the result would quite literally shake the world. First, however, came his dalliance with a sprightly gentleman named Willis Carto, now Cardo. Is one of the very few individuals in this story whose commitment to fashion and proceeds the activism of George Lincoln Rockwell Willis started a monthly paper in 1955 called, Revealingly, the entitled Right, The Journal of Forward Thinking, American Nationalism. The title, right? Yeah, yeah, little on the nose. Yeah, it was basically just like a bunch of anti Communist, anti-Semitic segregation like articles. In 1957, Cardo first wrote openly about his idea to create something called the Liberty Lobby, which he promised would quote lock horns with the minority special interest pressure groups in order to support the needs of white people who were, you know, suffering. In the 1950s. Carter wrote that quote to the goal of political power. All else must be temporarily sacrificed. He spent his life embodying that Creed. Now Carter was not an out on the street. Bullhorn and placards activist nor was he an armed revolutionary clutching a rifle and calling for racial holy war. Instead, he sought to bring anti communists and segregationists together and craft a thoroughly American fascist movement. In 1962, he started to publish a magazine, Western destiny, dedicated to inculcating these ideas among the American right. He wrote about culture creators, AKA White people, and their eternal battle against Culture destroyers, AKA Black People. Tolerance, Carto wrote, can often be a culture retarding. Culture distorting weakness. Yeah, yeah. Good. This is the good stuff right here. Yeah, it's it's like 80% of the way. Real close to being *******. What's that fake university they have now? Although it's. Oh yeah, Western civilization fetishism. It's yeah, all that stuff. Cover up the racism a little bit more. An ancestor of Prager. Yeah, yeah, sure. Yeah. Now, Western destiny began to attract a dedicated audience of budding extremists, including a teenager named David Duke. It's possible that Willis Cardo is the man who red pilled Duke. Yeah. So that's who we're with now. Thanks, bud. Throughout the late 1960s is William Pierce was coming up with his idea for a National Front. Willis Carto built the Liberty Lobby into a moderately large mailing list for the distribution of far right. But not openly fascist propaganda. He latched on to the 1968 presidential bid of a fellow named George Wallace. Now, Wallace was the 45th Governor of Alabama and one of the leading voices against the civil rights movement. His most famous line is probably this. In the name of the greatest people that have ever trod the Earth, I draw the line in the dust and toss the gauntlet before the feet of tyranny. And I say segregation today, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever. Throwing the gauntlet at the feet of tyranny? Yeah, keep black people and white people in different schools. Yeah, God, you tyrants. He's the first guy to use the liberal media. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, George Wallace. Groundbreaking, yeah. It sounds like a real keeper is to discredit the civil rights movement. So it's. No different from today. So different. Yeah. Unreal. Yeah. So Carto turned the Liberty Lobby to the cause of getting Wallace elected president. He was, of course, unsuccessful in this goal, but the campaign wasn't incredible success for the Liberty Lobby. By its end, they'd become home for almost, but not quite, Nazi politics in the United States. Their newsletter, the Liberty Letter, had 170,000 subscribers. Now, when Wallace's campaign fell apart, Carter was able to swoop in and acquire a mailing list with the names of an additional 230,000. People members of the group Youth for Wallace Willis felt that the failure of George Wallace to win the presidency was no good reason to let the movement of young fascist season inspired go to waste. Under CARTO, youth for Wallace molded into the National Youth Alliance. According to Zeskind's blood and politics quote, in the subsequent months of the National Youth Alliance sponsored several regional meetings, including a January 1969 event at Conley's Motor Hotel in Monroeville, outside Pittsburgh, PA. It was here that the youth organization first began to unravel. Several officers in the new group objected to the content and tenor of the meeting and an attendant social and supporters home. It claimed that the affair was awash in Nazi heraldry, including women who wore swastika jewelry in men who sang the Horst Wessel lied, a Nazi party anthem from the 1930s. The host and MC promoted a new booklet by Carto's West Coast Enterprise Noontide Press myth of the six million. It argued that the Nazi genocide was a figment of the Jewish imagination. One of the formal presentations was entitled Plato the Fascist. So. This breaks apart the movement into two chunks. There's the people who really were just very far right conservatives. But once he starts talking about Holocaust, no, like, oh **** I accidentally wound up in a knot. I didn't. And I don't want to be a Nazi, right? Yeah. I just want liberty. I just want liberty. And, you know, good for them. Good for them. For at least being like, oh, **** this is Nazi. Yeah. I got to get out of here. Yeah. It's like you go to the unite the right rally. You're like, oh, wait, it's Nazis ever. You would hope that would provoke some real thinking from, like, some soul searching. It never happened. Yeah. So it's like you. You know that. Like, if I was part of a political organization and I showed up at a house party thrown to celebrate it and everybody was wearing swastikas, I would really sit down and reconsider. How did I get here? Take a moment. You take a moment at least a moment. Yeah. Speaking of taking a moment. Pivot, add, pivot. Oh my goodness. If we did Snickers ads, this would really have been a good time for one. Yeah, there's like, need a moment? That's a Snickers ad. Like you. You show up at like, a National Youth Alliance meeting and everybody's dressed as a Nazi. It's like, we need a moment. Snickers, are you listening? This is gold. This is a gold covered bagel. Distance yourself from Nazi stickers. Jeez. Take a break, knickers. The distance yourself from Nazi Stan. I'd buy one. Products. Mint Mobile offers premium wireless starting at just 15 bucks a month. And now for the plot twist. Nope, there isn't one. Mint Mobile just has premium wireless from 15 bucks a month. There's no trapping you into a two year contract. You're opening the bill to find all these nuts fees. There's no luring you in with free subscriptions or streaming services that you'll forget to cancel and then be charged full price for. None of that. For anyone who hates their phone Bill, Mint Mobile offers premium wireless for just $15.00 a month. Mint Mobile will give you the best rate whether you're buying one or for a family and. That meant family start at 2 lines. All plans come with unlimited talk and text, plus high speed data delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. You can use your own phone with any mint mobile plan and keep your same phone number along with all your existing contacts. Just switch to Mint mobile and get premium wireless service starting at 15 bucks a month. Get premium wireless service from just $15.00 a month and no one expected plot twists at mintmobile.com/behind. That's mintmobile.com/behind. Seriously, you'll make your wallet very happy. At Mint Mobilcom, behind my name is Erica Kelly and I am the host and creator of Southern Freight true crime. There are so many people that just have no idea about some injustices in the world and if you can give a voice to them, you can create change. To be able to do it within podcasting is just such a gift. I believe it was 18 months after I got on with Spreaker that I was making enough that I could quit my day job. It was incredible. Always felt like an ambassador. For speaker, but that's because I'm passionate about podcasting. It's really easy to use. I always tell people I am so not tech. Took me 5 minutes to get comfortable with spreaker, and when I find a new friend that has an incredible show, I want them to make money. I want them to be able to do what I did. Follow your podcasting dreams. Let's break your handle. The hosting, creation, distribution, and monetization of your podcast. Go to spreaker.com. That's spreaker.com. Get paid to talk about the things you love with spreaker. From iheart. In the 1980s and 90s, a psychopath terrorized the country of Belgium. A serial killer and kidnapper was abducting children in the bright light of day. His unspeakable crimes and the incompetence or unwillingness of the police to stop him brought the entire country of Belgium to the brink of revolution. From Tenderfoot TV in iHeartRadio this is la Monstra. A story of abomination and conspiracy that led to the demise of the entire institution of Belgian federal police and rattled the foundations of its government. The story about the man who simply become known as La Monster. Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We're back now. We all want Snickers. We do all wanna Snickers. So the National Youth Alliance quickly alienated the majority of its potential membership, mainly because Karto had revealed his power level a little too early. So every time, every time, yeah, it's it's never not stupid. It's a ******* Dragon Ball Z reference. How did that turn into Nazism? Syncretism. Meme, dork **** yeah, song, whatever. So Cardi's work attracted some new blood. However, William Pierce and a sizable herd of national socialists. They'd started hovering around the Liberty lobby like flies on the rotting corpse of George Wallace's presidential ambitions. They worked together for a while, but it was an acrimonious pairing, and the straight up National Socialists conflicted with carto's old guard were basically fine towing the Nazi line, but didn't want other people to call them Nazis. Carto and Pierce wound up breaking apart, and after a complex series of bureaucratic battles. Don't care to account? William Pierce wound up in charge of the National Youth Alliance he reincorporated in Virginia in October of 1970. This is the group that would go on to become the National Alliance. So that's where it came from. Is George Wallace's youth movement becomes the National Alliance largest Nazi organization in the US? OK, who will? What's really cool and not upsetting? How clear the path Republicans to straight Nazis was? Yeah. Now, cartel accused Pierce of stealing the liberties lobbies mailing list, which was probably true. Pierce accused cartel of embezzling $55,000 from his own organization, which was also probably true. Carter will accused Pierce's faction, who were, again, literal Nazis, of being Zionists. Pierce responded by calling Carto Swarthy, which was racial code. Yeah, you're well, you're not white enough. Oh my gosh, Nazis. The fighting between Pearson. Carter just underscored how unsuccessful Pierce's efforts to build a National Front had been. His plan had been to start by recruiting more students, starting in the DC area, but this was a miserable failure when he was invited to speak at George Washington University in February of 1972. Here's couldn't gather more than two dozen students. Anti fascists showed up and threw raw eggs at him and his men. Which I think is fun just because we we talk a lot about the long standing traditions among fascism and it's neat that a longstanding anti fascist tradition is eggs. Eggs. Yeah, no milkshakes, just some eggs. Just like. Yeah, it's nice that, uh, that. Yeah, that egg boy. Yeah, that egg boy. Who hit, uh, yeah, hit. What's his name? Frazier? The Fraser Anning, the Australian Fascist politician, Christchurch stuff. Give him a good egging. Classic tales all this time, yeah. Egging fascists, egging fascists. On February 26th, 1974, William Pierce decided to revamp the National Youth Alliance into a new organization, the National Alliance. He continued to publish the organization's newsletter, attack, which included guides for how to bomb. Movie theaters and articles. Oh my God. Arms. Which worked best for what? You don't like bombing movie theaters? Katie? I don't like it. No, I don't like it 1 bit. I thought you were a big movie theater. Bombing. No, no, no, no, no, no. How did I, you know, wrong. I'm. Oh, you like movies? I'm a movie goer. So you're not putting yourself on an anti bombing movie theater list? Yeah, that sounds a little extreme to me, but OK. This is how we get radicalized. Yeah, we're all taking a journey towards radicalization. I mean, if you're forcing me to mistake. Dance then. Yeah, sign me up. I I'm just saying it's radical to be in favor of bombing movie theaters, but it's equally radical to be against it. I posit that no, it isn't. They're equal. They're equal. The anti of a of a of another thing is just as radical as that thing. Always. If you're into the extreme, then you are extreme. Exactly. That's drowning me in logic, guys. Both are equally bad. You can just take your radical anti movie theater bombing opinions elsewhere. Will I stay in the middle and say maybe it's fine to Bond movie theater? Sometimes that's you just got reasoned logic. I've got nothing to say to that. That's right, because you got destroyed. Robert Evans breaks Katie Stone on the wheel of logic. It's so much more pathetic in person. You got destroyed. Yeah. No, no, no, I didn't. Yeah. So, uh, yeah, attack included a lot of the fair that Nazi newsletters had always focused on. But the next year, 1975, William Luther Pierce introduced his first truly great innovation into the annals of right wing terror. He started publishing a book, an attack, a book titled The Turner Diaries. Oh, there it is. I was wondering where they come in. Published in sections across several issues of attack, the book is presented as a series of diary entries from a revolutionary. You might compare it to a Nazi answer to a Handmaid's Tale, and in fact it was partly probably inspired by. I think it actually predates that by a little bit. There were other books that was inspired by. There's a long tradition of books in this line that Turner Diaries is present itself. Like inspired by. Yeah. I don't know, I haven't read it. Zombie story. The Turner Diaries were meant to take place in a near future America in which a Jewish dominated liberal government had taken over and forcibly instituted such horrors as multiculturalism and gun control. Pierce presents those things from a Nazi point of view, so multiculturalism is presented as feral, animalistic black people ****** white women at will, and gun control is portrayed as the forcible confiscation of all privately owned firearms. There are quality police in the book, to give you an idea of its tenure. It is idiot losers. Yeah, that makes me the quality police. God. Oh my gosh, it's just really on the nose and obvious. Yeah, so embarrassing for Earl Turner is a normal white man who gets swept up in a secret terrorist organization led by a group called the Order, who organized their insurgency in a series of small cells and carry out vicious terror attacks, including the bombing of an FBI headquarters. The goal of these attacks is to destabilize the American government and provoke a vicious race war. The order funds its operations by robbing banks and armored cars. Which allows them to buy weapons and explosives to carry out more attacks and gradually to tip the country into one nightmare. The book launched a number of concepts into the fascist mindset, not the least of which is the idea of the day of the rope. Who idea of the rope? Yeah, I'm going to quote now from the Turner Diaries quote today has been the day of the rope. A grim and bloody day, but an unavoidable one tonight from 10s of thousands of lampposts, power poles and trees throughout this vast metropolitan area. At the grizzly forms hang in the lighted areas. One sees them everywhere, even the street. Signs at intersections have been pressed into service, and it practically every street corner I passed this evening on my way to HQ. There was a dangling corpse forward, every intersection hanging from a single overpass. Only about a mile from here is a group of 30, each with an identical placard around its neck bearing the printed legend. I betrayed my race. Two or three of that group had been decked out in academic robes before they were strung up, and the whole batcher, apparently faculty members from the nearby UCLA campus. The first thing I saw in my moon in the moonlight, was the placard with the legend. In large block letters, I defiled my race above the placard. Heard the horribly bloated purplish face of a young woman, her eyes wide open and bulging, her mouth agape. Finally I can make out the thin vertical line of rope disappearing into the branches above. Apparently they're had slipped a bit, or the branch to which it was tied had sagged until the woman's feet were resting on the pavement, giving the uncanny appearance of a corpse standing upright of its own volition. I shuddered and quickly went on my way. There are many thousands of hanging female corpses like that in the city tonight, all wearing identical placards around their necks. They are the white women who are married to or living with blacks, with Jews, or with other non white males. What a quote. The Turner Diaries, everybody. I mean, like, yeah, it's awful. Not a fan that you guys were going to really, like. Enjoy that passage. Zero stars. Said that, all those people are hanging, yes, because of the rope is a good thing. You would be like, I'm like, OK, sci-fi novel, that's the two or did that of the bad guys. No, not in this. In this. They are the ones to be emulated. Now Earl Turner dies in the book, carrying out a suicidal but successful assault on the Pentagon, but the order is victorious. The book is essentially framed as a historical document, with researchers from Earl's future commenting on it. They note that after the US was purged of all non white people, the same thing was done to the rest of the planet, using a series of nuclear and chemical weapons attacks to cleanse Asia. Yeah, wait a minute. Yeah, it's a total global genocide of all non white. But she did like a history. Yeah, yeah. It's like written is like, oh, in the perfect white future, we found this, the Diaries of this revolutionary who helped us establish our utility. Here's how we got here. Here's how we got here. Fictional. Yeah. Yeah. Do they believe that they're just preemptively writing a historical? Stuff I got you. Here's what we want here. I was just clarifying some words here. OK, so the Turner Diaries took off like gangbusters among the American far right. It was eventually published as a book, selling as many as 500,000 copies. The Turner Diaries? Yeah, way too many. And it did not sell the traditional way in a Barnes and Noble. Instead, it proliferated virally on the gun show circuit, at survivalist conventions, and in tiny small town shops owned by racists. 500,000 copies is, of course, a sizable success, even by mainstream standards. I found a good article in the Atlantic by JM Berger, who authored a scholarly paper titled The Turner Legacy. It notes the Turner Diaries is notable for its lack of ideological persuasion. At one point in the novel, it's protagonist Earl Turner is given a book to read. Turner claims the book perfectly explains the reasons for white supremacy and the justification of all the orders actions. Importantly, this magical tomes contents are never specified. Although the novel's epilogue broadly hints at a Nazi orientation, the book never explicitly identifies the order with a specific movement. Due in part to Pierce's desire to appeal to normal people, as well as the novel's limited initial circulation among Neo Nazis, Turner assumes its readers are already racist and do not need to be recruited to that mindset. The abandonment of why empowers a singular narrative focused on what and how the necessity of immediate violent action and concrete suggestions about how to go about it. This is part of why the book has been so often associated with violence and terrorism. Now the Turner Diaries would go on to become the most influential single piece of fascist propaganda since Mein Kampf. It has inspired more than 200 murders since its inception, but it's also inspired a hell of a lot more than simple murder. The Turner Diaries became the ideological underpinning of a vicious American insurgency, which eventually led to hundreds and hundreds of armed men around the country working actively towards the establishment of a white supremacist state, a problem that continues to this day. Now, the Turner Diaries inspired more than that though, because it also inspired a whole new genre of terrible right wing fiction. So have you guys heard about a little book called unintended Consequences? I don't think so. It was published in 1996 by a guy named John Ross and it's best described as the Turner Diaries. But all of the racism is whispered so like a little bit more subtle. The cover of the copy I have features a burning copy of the Constitution with a black clad cop attempting to sexually assault Lady Justice in front. Subtle, very subtle. Have you read these books? Some, yeah, I've read on intended consequences. I've only read parts of the Turner Diaries. It's just not very entertaining. Not good and kind of hard to get through and but I came across unintended consequences. Not like I came across it at like a gun store it was. Was it an unintended consequence? Really? Yeah. Part of this where it's like, all these things just sort of pop up in gun stores. Yeah. And yeah. Under. Yeah. Underbelly of all this stuff. Yeah. And the main innovation from the Turner Diaries and unintended consequences was that it switched the focus of the revolutionaries away from race war and gun rights towards just gun rights. So that was a factor in the Turner Diaries. Unintended consequences makes it the center of the whole thing. The plot focuses around a guy named Henry Bowman who winds up being framed by the ATF for some dumb reason related to their desire to steal American guns. He kills all the ATF agents and then brutally tortures one who he captures. Bowman and a small group of gun rights advocates then carry out a terror campaign, brutally murdering gun control advocates around the nation until the president repeals all gun control laws. Alex Jones has mentioned multiple times on Infowars that unintended consequences is one of his favorite books. Yeah, he sure should. Yeah. More recent years. Has he ever mentioned the Turner Diaries? No, he's never. OK, that seems like a little too. He's read him, though. He ohh. Absolutely. Yeah. Big fan. He's like, I wonder if it's ever been, like audio or moments where he's, like, slipped it in. Yeah. But I believe he's too smart to mention that out. Right. Yeah, that's one that you can't mention. Right. Because then you're definitely a not then, you know. Yeah. Yeah. But unintended consequences, it's a little separate and a little safer. Another thing that's separate enough. Have you ever heard of Matt Bracken? No, well he wrote a book series called Enemies Foreign and Domestic like unintended Consequences. This book is basically Turner Diaries with less racism in it. The Liberal government creates a false flag mass shooting to take away everyone's guns. The ATF is the bad guy and brave patriots beat them via terrorism. Now Brackens innovation was to have the cast of his books include numerous non white people. The idea seems to be that if most of the characters are non white and the book can't be accused of being racist on an unrelated. About the second book in the series is domestic enemies, the Reconquista. Oh my God. Yeah. One guess as to where that goes. The evil Liberals orchestrate an invasion of America via using Mexicans with the goal of having them ban English in the southwest and then secede from the United States. What year were these? These are coming out now. Yeah. Yeah, these are these are recent. Bracken is like a special forces veteran and like a right wing activist and stuff. This is all coming out now. Bamberger, the guy who wrote the Turner legacy, also wrote an article about these books for The Daily Beast. He identified some similarities between Bracken's third book and the Turner Diaries quote after an earthquake demolishes Memphis, black refugees turned into a seething mob of gang rapists and cannibals, characterizations that feature memorably in the Turner Diaries, while urban Blacks loot a path from Baltimore to Washington DC, where they demand and receive a new socialist constitution engineered by a thinly veiled caricature of President Obama. The narrative disclaimers continue, 1 character condemns. White racist killings in the chaos after the quake and a battle weary white racist girl near the end of the book accepts a hand of comfort offered by a black army medic. But these and other moments of individual race grace are hard pressed to counter with the vivid, lengthy depiction of African Americans and masses, cannibal rapists directly responsible for destroying America's constitution. This is so upsetting. Yeah, it really makes me angry. It's a great rubric, though. Got to give Pierce credit. I mean, it works. It's. Incredible. Upsetting this *******. Yeah. Credit is a ***** ** **** but a ***** ** **** who was very effective. Yeah, there's a lot of very effective pieces of ****. Yep, that's kind of depressing. In writing the Turner Diaries, William Pierce ignited a movement within the far right that is still very much present and relevant today. The next chapter will discuss in depth the generation of terrorists who were inspired by his words to take horrifying, bloody action. Like Christian identity theology, the Turner Diaries have influenced many people who may never have even read the book. In his manifesto, the Christchurch mosque shooter wrote about his hope that his attack would spark renewed calls for gun control in the United States because he believed that this would inevitably spark a new civil war. The Poway synagogue shooter repeated the same desire. Both of these desires are based, whether in consciously or not, on things written out in the ternary they want. They just want conflicts to spark the and they think that guns will be central to it. Yeah, William Luther Pierce died in 2002, but his ideas live and kill to this day. The struggle between William. Pearson, Willis Carto would prove to be a microcosm of a greater struggle within the fascist right itself. On cardio side are the mainstreamers. Their goal is to gain political power by pushing the Overton window further and further right and convincing more and more of their fellow Americans to adopt ******** fascist politics. Carto supported political parties and candidates, most notably David Duke, successful run for the Louisiana State Senate and unsuccessful run for governor, was also a backer of Pat Buchanan Cartel and other Mainstreamers believe that the majority of white Americans can be converted to their political ideals. So getting power is just a matter of properly propagandizing to their fellow whites. William Pierce, on the other hand, was a vanguardist. Vanguardist believed that politics is hopeless and the only way for their side to win is to, as in the Turner Diaries, form small dedicated groups and bring on the collapse of society in order to take control. George Lincoln Rockwell himself is hard to pin down. He had elements of both mainstream and vanguardist in his writings and in his activism, but his most direct descendants, men like William Pearson, James Mason, became two of the most influential minds in the van. Artist movement. But in the late 1970s, a new wave of fascists and Neo Nazis began to rise, popping up around the countryside like mushrooms on a rotting log. For more than a decade, they would build a potent insurgency armed with missiles, machine guns and bombs, utterly dedicated to a single dire mission, turning the Turner Diaries into a reality. As we're going to talk about in the next chapter, that was a good chapter. I mean, they've all been good chapters, but that was fascinating. That was that was better than the other poop ones. Yeah, the other ones. Need to you said it with how you said it, you said it. My only said this was a good chapter. Ohh, his garbage fell from the ceiling. He threw my garbage on the ceiling, but then it fell off. Yeah, and stayed on for a second. It's not the best place to keep your recycling. How are you doing, Sophie? OK, you guys gotta plug thing, Sophie says. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, we have a show, too. It's called even more news. That's the podcast. We've got a YouTube show called some more news. That's YouTube show. We got a Patreon. Go to patreon.com/somemore news. Cody, talk about merch. We have merch now. I believe it's not tea public. Probably teepublic.com/user slash some more news or just searched a bunch of those words together. You got stuff to buy? I'm Katie Stoll on Twitter. Yeah, I'm doctor Mr Cody on Twitter. Nerd. I got some more news Twitter as well. Robert, what about you? There is no place that you can currently purchase T-shirts themed after this podcast, but maybe one day, Sophie, could we get that set up? Oh, Ouch, Sophie. She whispered something about the money going to him, but not her, so she doesn't care well, and you can buy a shirt. I recommend target. Ross is good too if you want the shirt to be stained. Always. And then you say Marshalls, Marshalls, Marshalls. And you could always say, I got it at Ross, I got it at Ross, TJ Maxx, love TJ Maxx. I got it at TJ Maxx. Does not have the same ring to it. No, it does a different kind of ring. Cool. You ruined this show. Cody ohf. I bring up TJ Maxx. Unbelievable. Anytime you bring up TJ Maxx, it ruined. I ruined the Nazi show by bringing up TJ Maxx. As I said, don't talk about TJ Maxx. And I think we can all agree that TJ Maxx is the naziism of discount clothing outlets. Yeah, Cody. Wow. I'm. I've been radicalized. They're gonna be radicalized at one point or another throughout this, shots fired, TJ stands for. Turner juice, you know this is a bad lie. Juice, I said. Juice. Juice. Turner. Juice. Turner. Turner. Why are we trying to do this, though? I think all is gold. I want to make it worth bringing up TJ Maxx. It's never worth bringing up TJ. Might be. It might be this time. Gracefully edit the end of this no burner. That's Katie. The foundational ethos of this show is that nothing can be graceful. It's good we're a bunch of graceless behind the ******** behind the ******** America's most graceless of podcasts. Hello, I'm Erica Kelly from the podcast Southern Fried True crime, and if you want to go from podcast fan to podcast host, do what I did and check out spreaker from iheart. I was working in accounting and hating it. Then after just 18 months of podcasting with Spreaker, I was able to quit my day job. Follow your podcasting dreams. Let's break our handle the hosting, creation, distribution, and monetization of your podcast. Go to spreaker.com. That's spreaker.com. Hey there, it's Ebony Monet, your co-host for the San Diego Zoo's Amazing Wildlife podcast. In this special episode, we're speaking with Doctor Jane Goodall about the fascinating journey that led to her impactful behavioral discoveries on chimpanzees. It wasn't until one of the chimpanzees began to lose his fear of me, but I began to really make discoveries that actually shook the scientific world. Listen to amazing wildlife on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. In the 1980s and 90s, a psychopath terrorized the country of Belgium. A serial killer and kidnapper was abducting children in the bright light of day. From Tenderfoot TV and iHeartRadio, this is La Monstra, a story of abomination and conspiracy. The story about the man who simply become known as. Lamaster. Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.