Behind the Bastards

There’s a reason the History Channel has produced hundreds of documentaries about Hitler but only a few about Dwight D. Eisenhower. Bad guys (and gals) are eternally fascinating. Behind the Bastards dives in past the Cliffs Notes of the worst humans in history and exposes the bizarre realities of their lives. Listeners will learn about the young adult novels that helped Hitler form his monstrous ideology, the founder of Blackwater’s insane quest to build his own Air Force, the bizarre lives of the sons and daughters of dictators and Saddam Hussein’s side career as a trashy romance novelist.

Part Three: Mark Zuckerberg: The Worst Person of the 21st Century (So Far)

Part Three: Mark Zuckerberg: The Worst Person of the 21st Century (So Far)

Thu, 17 Jan 2019 11:00

Part Three: Mark Zuckerberg: The Worst Person of the 21st Century (So Far)

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Hey, Robert here. It's been like two months since I had LASIK and I'm still seeing 2020. All I had to do was go in for a consultation, then go in for a maybe 10 minute procedure and then my eyes have been great ever since. You know, I healed up wonderfully. It was very simple, couldn't have been a better experience. So if you want to explore LASIK plus I can't recommend it enough. They have over 20 years experience in the industry and they performed more than two million treatments right now if you want to try getting LASIK plus you can get $1000 off of your surgery when you're treated in September, that's $500. Of per eye, just to schedule your free consultation. Hello, I'm Erica Kelly from the podcast Southern Fried true crime. And if you want to go from podcast fan to podcast host, do what I did and check out spreaker from iheart. I was working in accounting and hating it. Then after just 18 months of podcasting with Spreaker, I was able to quit my day job. Follow your podcasting dreams. Let's breaker handle the hosting, creation, distribution, and monetization of your podcast. Go to That's Do you love movies? Well, I have the podcast for you. Hey there, this is Mike D from movie Mike's movie podcast Your Go to source for all things movies. Each episode explores a different movie topic plus spoiler free reviews on the latest streaming and movies in theaters. You'll also get interviews with actors and directors to take a look behind the scenes of your favorite movies. Listen to new episodes of movie Mikes Movie podcast Every Monday on the Nashville podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up people? That's not how I opened the show, but it happened now. I'm usual. Yeah, you turned into a tech bro. You guys are both really positive about this, but Sophie's giving me the thumbs down and looks livid. I'm loving casual. Evans over here. Yeah, it's we're an hour. Three of the ZUK cast his patrol Evans here. The pod mark this weekend. I'm Robert Evans. This is behind the ******** the show where we tell you everything you don't know about the very worst people in all of history. And again, this is part three, so listen to the other two episodes first. Don't. Renegade. Like Mark Zuckerberg. Like that song about the Jeeps? Yeah, no play by the rules. As you can tell, we are all deep into bags of Doritos. We are. We are deep into bags of Doritos in order to handle the stress of being in a ******** suckhole. Yeah, yeah, zuck. Wholly in the Zuck vortex. Foley, zucked. We're getting flooded in the easier. Sucked in the ear. * ear we're getting seed in the east. Hmm. Thankfully, eating a nice D helped me deal with that. The demon dorito. You get the D in the end. That the D and the M yeah, that's what busy people say from time to say Doritos every time. Too much going on in this workaday world. In March of 2010, some ******* named Robert Evans published an article on Title 5 reasons the Internet could die at any moment. I am not proud of the title. 2010 was a different time, but one of the entries on that Ultra clickable listicle is relevant to our current topic. It was about the worry that something called the strip mall effect was rapidly destroying the wild and weird Internet that most of us grew up on, the place where each new click was as likely to bring you to goat. See, as it was to some dudes meticulously archived coin collection or a website full of Roy Orbison cling wrap. British fiction and nothing in between. Nothing in between. No, I mean literally everything in between. Internet? Yeah, it was a fun place. 2010 was the year that Facebook hit 500 million users. People were spending more time there than they ever spent on a website. The worry was that Facebook and a few other giant consolidated social media sites would swallow up the weird little websites that had given the Internet its character, much in the same way that Walmart and Target had swallowed up the tiny shops and a family owned businesses that once dominated Main Street America. Fortunately, that didn't happen. Oh yeah, I mean, I don't need to say that. That's exactly, yeah, exactly what went down. Yeah, I mean, and I didn't make that call. Somebody else that I was citing in the article did, but it was prescient. That's exactly what happened to the ******* Internet. The term they used at the time was splinternet, which is not a term we wound up using, but I kind of like it. Kind of like I think it defines what Facebook did pretty well now. Something else happened, though, that almost no one predicted. I certainly didn't. Rather than being an engine for these spread of knowledge, as many techno utopians had hoped, at the turn of the Millennium, the Internet became the greatest engine for the spread of ******** ever conceived. Rather than bringing people together, it facilitated division and hatred on an unprecedented scale. Facebook is not the only culprit behind this, but it's probably the largest one. I don't think this was inevitable. I think most of the negative impacts we've seen Facebook have can be tied directly to the things we already know about Mark Zuckerberg. Based on the 1st 2 parts of this podcast, there are a couple of clear facts I've established about the man I'm going to list. Number one, he believes Facebook fundamentally is good, and so keeping people on the site longer is also fundamentally good #2 because he guessed one thing about the future. Correctly, once, he thinks he is always right about where the future is headed. And three, he has no problem with lying, cheating, and stealing to expand Facebook and furthers the things he believes to be inevitable. Huh? Ah, now. In April of 2016, Mark Zuckerberg announced to the world that within five years, Facebook would be almost entirely video. Video, he assured us, was how most people now preferred to consume their content. This is what the kids wanted. He didn't know that, as Jamie Loftus knows, the kids wanted Doritos. Doritos hooking up they're making love when it's Doritos. They are always making love and never hooking up. They're ********** Robert, lovingly **********. It is beautiful. Yeah, don't let them have their beautiful romance. This is my Christ in a chip. This is my the notebook. Yeah, no, that whole video content worked out great. Speaking as someone. Yeah. Aren't we still all employed by you? Crazy man? That was all worked out. Yeah, I remember when my friends and I all had healthcare. Yeah, and then this happened. Congrats on getting that far. Yeah, actually, I'm a little older than you. I had a couple of extra years. You know, I hit the Internet at its sweet spot. I came in too late. They were like, **** chug something and we'll give you $75 for you. OK, and I did, and it's there forever and never run for office. But the $75 is no. I will say this, the one good thing about President Donald Trump, there is no way in which you're disqualified from office for **** chugging. A guy got to the Supreme Court and we talked about Boofing in Congress. This will be the name of my memoir. Because we're just going to cut the middleman, does boof it. Yeah, I was so weirded out to hear a term that my friends and I used when I was damaging public property is in 19 year old, especially from a man with gigantic pores just being, yeah, boofin always my favorite term. And again, I don't want the creepiness of Brett Kavanaugh to make boofing look like a bad thing, because Boofing is an inherently noble action. It's gorgeous. Much like 2 Doritos making love, I'm still looking. I haven't turned away. You guys know they've started moving. We're not looking at them. No, they're moving in together. They're always moving in your heart. Yeah, so Mark Zuckerberg tells everybody that within, you know, five years, Facebook is going to be almost all video videos. How most people consume their content. We tells everyone this is what people want. But at this point, Facebook had more than 1.6 billion monthly users. The site was increasingly the place where ad dollars were being spent in the first quarter of 2016. $0.85 out of every dollar spent in online advertising went to either Facebook or Google. So if Facebook says make video, you make video? Yeah. Now, Maggie, you and I were both working for a website named crack right around this time. We're not working there anymore. No. What? Do you remember that fun six months when we all got extra money to make videos? You know what? That was really fun. That was a fun six months fun. That was wild. I didn't get to make video, but you guys did. Yeah, I liked those videos. Quality videos. Great videos directed by great people. Yeah, and then. Play video companies that have just shut down suddenly and then it they're like, I I just contacted them to get like tax information and they're just like, we just destroyed everything. We burned our files. And different company that did like little like news videos and they too like. It was like one minute we were working in the office, then my friend and I complained about one of our sexist bosses and we got told to work from home and then the company went under. Well, we should get your stuff out, yeah, yeah, yeah, I got paid. So Jamie, you have an out. You're going to flee now. You have to go back, guys. I didn't want to like make a big deal of this, but there is someone like waiting for me outside and I am going to go back and have my name kind of like bleeped out every time it's mentioned because I'm are you want to date with Jamie, look at me and say no, I'm *******. Twinkle vases. Ohh. Wow. Congrats. OHP, thank you. Oh my God, thank you so much. When I gotta ask before you go. Yeah. When one of them climaxes of course doesn't does the other make this sound? It's but like pitch it up an octave, pitch it up, that's it, and they come bitcoins. Just pretty do they go, do they go right in your wallet sopping wet? Absolutely disgusting. Sorry guys, my mother waiting in their Bitcoin mobile. You go. You go find love like these Doritos. Goodbye, friends. Well, we've lost a Loftus. Yeah, I feel it. I feel the absence. We are on aloft, unallocated. We are lofty, lofted, lofted. But we still have a Maggie may fish, which is pretty great. I'm all right. I'm. No, I'm no winkle boss. Well, here, 1 1/2 winkle by. Say so. Thank you. I'm so happy those weird guys are stuck in pop culture forever now. They're like a permanent fixture and the only images will ever have of them is them rowing in a boat and being angry about Facebook, and that's them forever. They'll never do anything to suppress that and we don't care. I will never care. Beautiful. Ohh now Facebook offered a lot of incentives to websites that pivoted to video. For a short time. They even offered a partnership where they would pay you to post videos on their site. The entire digital media world very quickly swerved to oblige what they thought were just the new realities of the world. In 2016 and 17, MTV News, Vice, vocative, Mike, and Mashable all fired writers and editors and put more resources into hiring new video teams. Now, Maggie and I both worked for a, I would say medium sized digital media company at the time. Crack did not layoff its editors and writers to hire video people. But we started pumping a ton of company resources into making videos. And the people who've been writing articles started spending more and more of their time pivoting for them sweet, sweet Facebook dollars. Which honestly, like, as someone who didn't know any of the like tech stuff of it made sense. It seemed great. It seemed great. It seemed to make sense with, you know, YouTube and, you know, so this is what the kids wanted. Yeah, Zuckerberg new. That's we're about to get to now. This was not happening in a vacuum. From about 2013 to 2015, I think Facebook was very good to most of us because people liked sharing our articles and Facebook's algorithm and shared the articles people like to share got shared to huge audiences. That really started to shift. In 2016 we started seeing the same kind of traffic from Facebook. Every few months they tweak their algorithm again and traffic would fall. This was all part of a strategy Mark Zuckerberg outlined in an internal e-mail back in 2012. Quote. The answer I came to is that we're trying to enable people to share everything they want and to do it on Facebook. Sometimes the best way to enable people to share something is to have a developer build a special purpose app. Network for that kind of content and to make that app social by having Facebook plug into it. However, that may be good for the world, but it's not good for us unless people also share back to Facebook and that content increases the value of our network. So ultimately I think the purpose of platform, even the read site is to increase sharing back to Facebook. So Facebook was doing well for us, but Facebook did not think they were doing well enough by us because they didn't want people ever off of Facebook. The splinternet because it is a it is a good. Good people spend more time on Facebook, then they're only gonna people do it. And it's inherently good if, like, ****** *** Boomer News X 19 looks just as credible in a headline form as the New York Times. Because it's all on your Facebook timeline, right? And how could that embedly. Yeah, and we're not going to check. And we will. We will check, but we're not gonna, you know, pull any cards here. Yeah. Now, for a year or so there, digital media companies worshipped Facebook's algorithm as if it was some sort of mysterious elder God. Inscrutable but capable of delivering vast rewards if properly appeased. We published Facebook instant articles. Because Facebook paid us for those and tacitly promised that they would increase traffic for our other content. And of course, we filled the Internet with videos. Now, unbeknownst to most of us, in August of 2016 Facebook quietly published A blog post on its Advertising Help Center, admitting that it had wildly overestimated the amount of time people spent watching videos on Facebook. It turned out they'd been counting any video views longer than three seconds for their average duration of video viewed metric, and discarding any views of less than this amount of time. If you understand basic mathematics, you may recognize this as providing. Wildly inaccurate information about how value video ads on Facebook work. So they were ignoring anytime someone scrolled past the video like you do. 90% of the time that didn't count, only if you watched it for more than three seconds. Well, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, yeah, doesn't it for Facebook. Now, even that blog post had the reality of the situation. Here's Vanity Fair quote according to a new lawsuit that allowed a group of small advertisers in California to review some 80,000 pages of internal Facebook records, it appears that Facebook was actually aware of the issue long before it claimed. At the time, Facebook told advertisers that it had overestimated views by about 80% at most. But in Tuesday's complaint, the plaintiffs alleged that average viewership metrics had been exaggerated by 100 and 52900 percent, 900%. Oh my God, it's so infuriating. That's my buddies and I don't have health care no more. It's just it's so it's wild. Shout out to Tom Ryman and David Bell and the game Plan employee network back him on Patreon because they don't have health care anymore. Take it like like and they're great people. And it's so it's infuriating because it's just how can someone think that they are good at business and then do things like this, like insane, that is 900%. OK, that's like Marie Kondo came to your apartment and as she was cleaning up, just stole most of your clothing and walked away. It's not on the ground anymore, isn't it? Right? What's your problem, green, isn't it? Anyways, let's go make a profit after. I'm gonna go sell this **** to Buffalo exchange. Yeah, the result of all this was the digital media crash we are all still dealing with today. Which is not to say that companies did not make mistakes. Like all those companies that fired their writers in order to hire errors were made, but they were made based on the fact that the company that was responsible for all of the ad money lied to us blatantly and so blatantly that I don't think anyone could have predicted that they were inflating their numbers by 900%. Who does that 150 to 900% right alleged by the advertisers who also got. Screwed over. Although I'm not super simple, but actually I love advertisers. They're great. Well, when they are ethical. When they're ethical. You know we are by advertising on our podcast. Doritos. Doritos now. You're wonderful, Maggie. The digital media crash was exacerbated by a number of things, including the fact that after the 2016 election, Facebook deemphasized and limited the spread of content from brands, largely as a reaction to complaints about the spread of fake news on their platform. Thousands upon thousands of journalists, writers, and other creatives lost their jobs. The results of this were earth shattering to many of us. To Mark Zuckerberg, it all came down to a couple of speeches. He probably only half are members now. I started with this example of a thing Facebook broke because it's very personal to me. But the consequences of Mark Zuckerberg's bad decision making have amounted to a lot more than a few. 1000 lost jobs. Let's talk about Myanmar. Ohh, here we go. The ethnic cleansing of the Muslim Rohingya in Myanmar by the Buddhist majority has to date forced more than 650,000 people out of their homes. 10s of thousands have been massacred. 43,000 deaths seems to be the low end of the body count estimates. Last year, the United Nations announced that Facebook had played a determining role in the massacre United Nations. Determining role. Other social media was also blamed, but Facebook was by far the Big Kahuna quote from the United Nations. It is substantively contributed to the level of acrimony and dissension and conflict, if you will, within the public. Hate speech is certainly, of course, a part of that. As far as the Myanmar situation is concerned, social media is Facebook and Facebook is social media. Cow here has a lot in common with the whole issue of fake news and the spread of violent, divisive content that's turned American politics upside down. It also has connections to Russia, because of course it does. Of course it does. Remember how in 2009, Facebook introduced that news feed thing? In addition to turning the Internet to a walled garden sucking in ever more ad dollars, it also ensured that divisive content would spread further and faster than it ever had before. This is because, per Mark Zuckerberg stated desires Facebook's algorithm praised time spent on Facebook more than anything else. What kind of content drives that sort of engagement? Why the kind of content people argue over and get angry over to Facebook. ****** *** people are the people who aren't going to leave Facebook. They'll keep commenting, fighting, and sharing. It took a little while, but oppressive regimes around the world realized this one of those regimes. Was Myanmar's military junta partly pushed out of power in 2011, but still very powerful and very ******? Here's the New York Times. They began by setting up what appeared to be news pages and pages on Facebook that were devoted to Burmese pop stars, models and other celebrities like a beauty queen with a been shot for parroting military propaganda. They didn't tended the pages to attract large numbers of followers, said the people. They took over one Facebook page devoted to a military sniper's own **** who had won national acclaim after being wounded in battle. They also ran a popular blog called Opposite Eyes that had no outward ties to the military. Those then became distribution channels for lurid photos, false news and inflammatory posts, often aimed Myanmar's. Muslims troll accounts run by the military helped spread the content, shout down critics, and fuel arguments between commenters to rile people up. Often they posted sham photos of corpses that they said were evidence of a Ranga perpetrated massacres. This is interesting. So you know, we watched the frontline documentary, we talked a little bit about this and to bring it back to how Zuckerberg never learns and never grows up, the way he cheated on his final exam at Harvard was to make a fake account on Facebook post. A divisive article about the art that he was supposed to appraise made another fake Facebook account to stoke arguments on his page so that he could write an essay made off of other people's arguments. And he went on the site to make sure people kept talking about it, kept fighting over it, and that that's included in the social network movie, and it's just wild to see him do the exact same thing that led to the military. Myanmar did in order to engage in an ethnic cleansing. It is the exact same thing. And how he can keep claiming that he has no idea. And the military of Myanmar received training from the Russian government because they were pretty good at doing this sort of ****. Yeah, yeah. Funny. That's funny that ****** people all think the same. Yeah, yeah. Good times. Ohh, we are having fun. I know every once in a while I just glanced at the two chips having sex just to like, remind myself there's still beauty in the world. That's what Doritos is there for. To remind you of the world's wonder splendor of the world. Doritos. Now, for most people in Myanmar, Facebook is the Internet. This is because of a plan launched by our man, Mark Zuckerberg. Zuck himself. The ear. Zucker. 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Option it's convenient, accessible, affordable, and it is entirely online. You can get matched with a therapist after filling out a brief survey, and if the therapist that you get matched with doesn't wind up working out, you can switch therapists at any time. When you want to be a better problem solver, therapy can get you there. Visit behind today to get 10% off your first month. That's better Hey, Robert Evans here. It's been like two months since I got LASIK laser eye surgery and my vision still 2020. So many things about my daily life has changed. I don't have to worry about putting on a mask and my glasses fogging up and have to take out contacts at night or put them in the day. I don't have to like, worry all the time when I'm traveling. Like, how many contacts do I have by go swimming at the lake during the summer? Something I like to do, go to the beach or whatever. I don't have to worry about losing a contact or, you know, bringing swimming glasses or something. With me, everything is just easier and getting it done. It's easy too, you know. I went in, I had my consultation, they told me I was a good candidate and then I went back in couple of days later about it being about a boom. You know, my eyes were perfect. So LASIK Plus is a leader in laser vision correction in the United States. They have over 20 years in the industry and more than two million treatments performed. If you want to start your LASIK plus journey, you can get $1000 off when treated in September. That's 500 per eye. So to schedule your free consultation. Now. We're back. We have been produced and serviced. That's not the way to frame that and we with the ads were. Ohh man products. I'm going to have me a Dorito cover that up. Umm, that crunchy taste? I like licking the cheese off of the chip. Fantastic. This is going to be either the best episode or the worst episode for the ASMR crowd. It's really hard to predict. The dog is lying on my coat. Ohhh, she likes the way your coat smell dogs. It's my sweat. I'm. I'm my Mark Zuckerberg. In that interview. I'm just sweating out of all of my holes and dogs love that because they don't judge. A dog would love Mark Zuckerberg if he were capable of human affection. Wow. Like, yeah, he has a dog named animal. My God, no, no, that's that's just ohk. OK. It's just a lie. I don't know if he has a dog or not. If he did, he would name an animal or farm animal or farm animal and then rate whether or not girls he met were hotter than it. I don't think I'm hotter than a cow. I've been thinking about this entire time since part one. He has a dog. It looks like a mop. He has an expensive looking dog that looks like a mop. It does look like a mop. He would choose a dog that looks like an object. Yeah, because objects are valuable to him and dogs are objects to some people. Now, for most people in Myanmar, Facebook is the Internet, and this is because of a plan launched by Mark Zuckerberg. As I stated in the last one, the plan had its roots in 2012 when Facebook first went public. As part of an IPO, investors get research on both their businesses potential and its potential pitfalls. One problem that was noted for Facebook in the future is that by the time it went public, it had already connected virtually every human being in the parts of the world with widespread Internet access. There just wasn't a lot of room for the company to grow. Everybody in Europe and America is everybody in the countries that have a lot of Internet. Will we make money? Yeah, where? Where the money comes from because it gets sucked into the other. But yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So Zuckerberg realized that in order to expand Facebook, he would need to connect the world. So he started partnering with makers of cheap mobile phones and service providers. Initially in the Philippines, providing their customers with free data when they used Facebook and just Facebook, these first steps seemed to work well. So Mark announced a formal plan in 2014 at the Mobile World Congress in Barcelona, which is a fun week if you're in tech journalist for another drunken Matt vomiting story. I had to go to like, deal with a bunch of like one of these product showcases at a hotel. And I got really sick, either because of the drinking or because I ate some bad paella and I vomited in front of the hotel and then got into a cab and the cab driver asked me, did you see the king? And I was like, what do you mean did I see the king? And he pointed like a flag flying on top of the the hotel. And he was like, whenever that flags there, the kings at the hotel. And I was like, I think I might have just puked on front of the King's limousine. That's my, that's my Matt hasn't changed or learned anything or Robert hasn't changed or learned anything. And 30 years story, kind of proud of that. Thank you. I'm picturing it. And I'm proud. Still have problematic substance abuse issues and I'm fine with that. You know why? Guess who didn't exacerbate an ethnic cleansing in Myanmar? You know what? This guy. This guy. You're fine. Exactly. You know, you read about these people **** **** Cheney or like George Bush who had horrible substance abuse problems and then sobered up and then killed millions. Right. What if they'd kept drinking and doing coke and died at 50? Better world. I absolutely agree. In that case, if your only other option is drugs or the Presidency, choose drugs, please choose drugs. Please choose drugs. Please, please, please don't go into politics after sobering up. No. Yeah. Whoo boy, we are on dangerous ground with this podcast. Well, it is funny that Zuckerberg did try to incite the idea of presidency. I have been on record as saying that I think a great TV show idea would be about a time. Traveling drug dealer who finds horrible people in history like Saddam Hussein and gets them hooked on pills before they can kill people. Like if Hitler had just had oxy. No Holocaust. No Holocaust. There's just sitting in a room listening to ******* Wagner and taking a **** load of pills until he dies. Better world world. That would have been a beautiful world. Time traveling drug dealer. If anyone listening is worth a network or a time traveling drug dealer, go for it and cast Maggie Mae Fish as your lead. Ohh great. I saw those pictures you did when you were like a 20s detective. You could you could rock the look for the episode in the 20s about Hitler. Oh my God. Yeah, I'll do it. I'll do it. Would be great. Boy, howdy, that was quite the digression. Don't know how we got there. It's it's like a Facebook status we keep pausing to discuss and then come back to the feed. Yeah, well, here's back to the feed. So Mark announced his plan to connect the world at the Mobile World Congress in 2014. Here's a quote from The Guardian covering a speech he gave that day. This is Mark talking. There was this Deloitte study that came out the other day. He told his audience that said if you could connect everyone in emerging markets, you could create more than 100 million jobs and bring a lot of people out of poverty. The Deloitte study, which did indeed say this, was commissioned by Facebook. Based on data provided by Facebook and was about Facebook. Now, the crux of Marx's plan involved giving people in poor countries free Internet access to a limited selection of websites. Mark started with Zambia, but India was the real prize, with six or 700 million potential new users. Now there were some signs that just rolling Facebook out for free in these places might be bad. In 2012, a series of fake images began circulating on Facebook purporting to show the massacre of Muslims by Buddhists. This sparked a riot that left several dead. But Mark did not pay this much heat. He rolled right ahead with and began. Connecting the world, Zambia, India, the Philippines, Sri Lanka and a little country called Myanmar now. Last year, in an interview with Fox, Mark directly responded to the claims made by the United Nations about the genocide his social network was enabling and making much worse. He brought up a recent success story, two fake news chain letters that had been circulating on Facebook before they were caught and deleted quote from Mark. So that's the kind of thing where I think it is clear that people were trying to use our tools in order to incite real harm now in that case. Our systems detect that that's going on. We stop those messages from going through now, as soon as the interview is published. It provoked fury from activists and social media researchers in Myanmar who were actually working to stop the spread of fake news and save lives. Their response to Mark is pretty damning. I'm going to read a healthy excerpt from it. As representatives of Myanmar civil society organizations and the people who raised the Facebook Messenger threat to your team's attention, we were surprised to hear you use this case to praise the effectiveness of your systems and the context of Myanmar from where we stand this case. Simplifies the very opposite of effective moderation. It reveals an over reliance on third parties, a lack of proper mechanism for emergency escalation, a reticence to engage in local stakeholders around the systemic solutions, and a lack of transparency. Far from being an isolated incident, this case further epitomizes the kind of issues that have been rife on Facebook and Myanmar for more than four years now, and the inadequate response of the Facebook team. It is therefore instructive to examine this Facebook Messenger incident in more detail, particularly given your personal engagement with the case. The pictures were clear examples of your tools being used to incite real harm. Aren't being stopped. They spread in an unprecedented way, reaching countrywide and causing widespread fear and at least three violent incidents in the process. The fact that there was no bloodshed as a testament to our communities resilience and to the wonderful work of peace building and interfaith organizations. This resilience, however, is eroding daily as our community continues to be exposed to violent hate speech and vicious rumors, which Facebook is still not adequately addressing. That's eviscerating. They reported those posts to Facebook, which eventually, a couple of days later I think remove them and then Mark Zuckerberg lied in an interview and said that Facebook caught them and removed the ************. One of the things they hit Facebook on most in that letter was an over reliance on third parties. In this case, the third parties of course, were the people writing this open letter quote. We identified the messages and escalated them to your legal team via e-mail on Saturday, the 9th September, Myanmar time. At that point, the messages have been circulating for three days and they continued to circulate. Several days after they were reported, so let me be clear exactly about what happened #1. After years of bloodshed and racism spread by Facebook, local activists managed to warn Facebook of in a timely manner about a new threat #2 in a miracle, Facebook listen to them and remove the threat. Days after it had first been posted #3 when Mark Zuckerberg took Flack for enabling an ethnic cleansing, he touted this as a success, erasing the existence of local activists in Myanmar and pretending Facebook itself had done the the way that Zuckerberg speaks. Because he does view himself as such a genius. Yeah, he often says. No one could have seen it coming. No one could have been happening for years, dude, for years telling you for years, several people could have stepped in at various moments. Now Facebook, not Mark Zuckerberg, did issue a response and apologize for erasing the local activists in Mark's first response. Now, Myanmar is the most shocking example of Facebook enabling unspeakable evil, but it is not the only one. While seems to be something of a failure in India, oddly enough, in part because of a massive. Grassroots net neutrality campaign they got a bunch of Indian peasants to like, understand net neutrality and realize they wanted it and like, it's a really cool story that we will not cover in enough detail because this is a sad podcast about bad people. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it is a cool story. Check it out. Fake news spread through Facebook has exacerbated ethnic tensions between Muslims and Buddhists as well as Muslims and Hindus, leading to numerous angry mobs and several deaths. There has been quite a lot of bloodshed as a result of Mark's relentless desire to connect the world. Here's a quote from the fantastic, utterly indispensable New York Times article where countries are tender. Boxes and Facebook is a match. Solid titling. Wow. Solid titling. That's sexy. That is sexy. Title, title, title. Almost makes me forget that they platformed the dictator of Turkey in an op-ed recently, but that's but that's on the op-ed section. You know that's different from these guys are good, hard working journalists. Quote last year in rural Indonesia, rumor spread on Facebook and WhatsApp, a Facebook done messaging tool, that gangs were kidnapping local children and selling their organs. Some messages included photos of dismembered bodies or fake police Flyers. Most immediately, locals and nine villages lynched outsiders they suspected of coming for their children. Near identical social media rumors have also led to attacks in India and Mexico. Lynchings are increasingly filmed and posted back to Facebook, where they go viral as grizzly tutorials. Tiny content does really well. You don't get to 500,500 million friends without making a few enemies. Oh my God, Oh my God. One of these spokes people that Facebook put up for frontline. If she was confronted with that she would say yes, act so we are aware. Of the lynching gangs. We just. I mean we're a company that came from a dorm room. I don't know if you saw the movie a dorm room in that quirky isn't that quirky. We're just like, you know, we were found in the dorm room and now college students are being dragged out of their dorm rooms and being the death in several countries for being gay. Yeah, we hear you. Yeah, hear you. It's not our fault that fake news about them assaulting people spread on Facebook and then they got murdered, right? It is not our fault. We like dorm worms and if you try to put in any law to stop us, we'll just get slower and worse at doing this. So don't you ******* dare. Don't you ******* dare. We're Facebook now. This **** has happened in Sri Lanka too. Last year in the capital city of Colombo, an anti Muslim video went viral. Activists and government officials watched in horror as prominent. Resist posted things like kill all Muslims, don't even save an infant and let Facebook's algorithm carry it off to millions of angry armed people. Now social media analysts in Sri Lanka flagged the video and that baby killing post and then sort of sat back to see if anything would happen. Despite repeatedly complaining about the horrific violence unleashed by Facebook, the company had not provided these activists with any kind of Direct Line. Facebook had assured them the tool would work well enough. The anti Muslim video and the kill even babies post were found not in violation of Facebook standards. One of these researchers who helped flag the videos told the New York Times quote you report to Facebook, they do nothing. There's incitements to violence against entire communities, and Facebook says it doesn't violate community standards. Now, Facebook standards can be hard to parse out or understand or understand, unlike a human and emotional level. Yeah, since they are a private company, we have no right to that information. The best that we can do is look to some of the comments Mark Zuckerberg himself has made on similar matters. Yeah, let us shell and an interview with the Guardian. He was asked about the proliferation of Holocaust denial talking points on his site. He called such content deeply offensive but said quote, I don't believe that our platform should take that down because I think there are things that different people get wrong. I don't think that they're intentionally getting it wrong. It's hard to Impune intent and to understand the intent. I just think as a part of some of those examples are, I think the reality is that I also get things wrong when I speak publicly. Oh so Oh well, I mean it, it makes sense. He is a liar and a thief, so he should allow a site that allows other liars and thieves. Because that is he. He's a billionaire. I get things wrong and I accidentally claim credit for the work of diligent activists who are trying to stop the damages of my platform. And so also Holocaust scenarios get things wrong too. And I can't can't be angry at them, you know I can't, because who am I to get angry at them? Now, Facebook is a private company, they are publicly traded, but they are a private company and they can set a policy of censorship for any of their like, any of this internal stuff. They can claim that this is all. Like our standards and stuff is like a business like thing that we need to keep secret. Otherwise other social media companies copy it or whatever. Exactly. So I just love that quote that like, well, if they're honest Holocaust deniers, why? Why would we censor them? If they honestly think Muslim babies should be killed, why? Why would we censor them? It's their opinion that Muslim babies should be murdered. Yeah, and that's OK on Facebook in my online country. That's OK with me. That's OK now in that interview. Drew stated his opinion and presumably Facebook stance that offensive speech only crossed a line when it endangered people. We are moving towards a policy of misinformation that is aimed at or going to induce violence. We are going to take down if it's going to result in real harm, real physical harm, or if you're attacking individuals and that content shouldn't be on the platform. So it's sweet to know that kill these Muslims and their babies did not cross that line. Yeah. Personal loss, that line. I don't think he understands what danger or dangerous means or is. No, his life would change irrevocably if someone just punched him in the face one. Yeah, which is why I am in favor of punching rich young men in the face. I agree. I think he would therefore maybe understand. People in Sri Lanka and Myanmar are going through. Might be like that. One time I got hit in the face and I hated that. Ohh no me. Maybe that would help? Oh boy. In that same interview, Marzak also addressed the hate speech ethnic cleansing problem in Myanmar. Quote people use tools for good and bad, but I think that we have a clear responsibility to make sure that the good is amplified and do everything we can to mitigate the bad. They're one of their, I don't know, spokesperson verbatim said about the Myanmar. They had a bad experience. Bad experience with some death mobs in an ethnic cleansing and so. We as a company, we want to make sure that we want to reduce the bad and increase the good, increase the good. Now don't ask me anymore questions. Just imagine her with like a microphone talking to some lady who's been beaten to death in the street for being a Muslim in Myanmar. Just being so, could you tell us how could Facebook improve your experience? How could we make this better? How can we make how can we fix this just a little bit? No, not that. We're not going to take it down. We're not going to take it down. No, no, no. When you said your baby should die, that was not a violation of our terms, but because maybe your baby should die. What if we improved the timeline? Would that help you? We can make it easier for you to tell people that your baby got murdered. Are you dead? OK. Someone else OK. Do maybe that does not all clear up exactly what Facebook's line is, but thankfully an internal guide they handed out to their content moderators did leak out, and it included the clearest statement from the company yet on when violent, hateful speech crosses a line. It's like a PowerPoint slide. Yeah, introduction is up at the top and then it says, why do we IP block content? And then there's some bullet points. The content does not violate our policies. We face the risk of getting blocked in a country or a legal risk. We've respect local laws when the government has made clear its intention to pursue its enforcement. Holocaust denial, illegal in 14 countries. We only consider it for the four countries that actively pursue the issue with us. Ohh, so Facebook will only I play black block the spreaders of dangerous content with the governments of those countries actively go after them. We don't care that it's illegal in your country to deny the Holocaust. Only if you threaten Facebook's bottom line will we block Holocaust denial content. Yeah, yes, then and only then? Then and only then freedom of speech. But also, if you're a sex worker, you can't use Facebook. And no, that's not OK. The Holocaust? Absolutely fine. Do it all day long. Advertise your business as a sex worker. No, no, no, no, no. Sir or Madam. No. Violence? Yes. Sex? No. Sex. No, no. Very American. Yeah. Very American. Very. Mark Zuckerberg. Yeah. Mark Zuckerberg violence? Yes. Sex, no. Actually, that should be our T-shirt. That should be violence. Yes. Sex? No. Mark Zuckerberg's face in the middle. I think we got us a T-shirt. Oh my God, I'd wear it. I'll buy that. I'd wear it twice. I'll buy it. And then I'll donate mine to my local sex workers. There you go. Yeah, as you all should. They will appreciate that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. All right. We got some ads, all right? Some products, maybe a service or three. And while while we wait for that, I'm going to or you just licking that Dorito? We looked at earlier and this is my second leg. Maximizing the flavor potential. Yeah, this is a real P Oh my God, that's what we call in the biz. Yeah, products. Mint Mobile offers premium wireless starting at just 15 bucks a month. And now for the plot twist. Nope, there isn't one. Mint Mobile just has premium wireless from 15 bucks a month. There's no trapping you into a two year contract. You're opening the bill to find all these nuts fees. 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If you're having trouble stuck in your own head, focusing on problems dealing with depression, or just you know can't seem to get yourself out of a rut, you may want to try therapy, and better help makes it very easy to get therapy that works with your lifestyle and your schedule. A therapist can help you become a better problem solver, which can make it easier to accomplish your goals, no matter how big or small they happen to be. So if you're thinking of giving therapy a try, better help is a great. Option it's convenient, accessible, affordable, and it is entirely online. You can get matched with a therapist after filling out a brief survey, and if the therapist that you get matched with doesn't wind up working out, you can switch therapists at any time. When you want to be a better problem solver, therapy can get you there. Visit behind today to get 10% off your first month. That's better Hey, Robert Evans here. 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If you want to start your LASIK plus journey, you can get $1000 off when treated in September. That's 500 per eye. So to schedule your free. Consultation now. We're back. We we just finished talking about when Facebook's cool with Holocaust denial. Yeah, and the answer is usually, usually, usually unless you're Germany and you threaten to go after them, which good on Germany. Realize there must have been a day or someone wrote down the four countries that will come after where we have to stop Holocaust denial. Only these four places it everywhere else where it is illegal, but we don't care. Yeah, but it won't affect us, but it won't affect us, so we're fine with it. Yeah. Now, it would be unfair of me to acknowledge all of this without acknowledging that Mark Zuckerberg himself does not want any of this **** to spread. There are anecdotal stories that when Donald Trump first announced his run for president with that Uber racist. Speech. Mark wanted to ban Trump from Facebook and his campaign from Facebook. He was reported, talked down. This was talked down. From this, I have no doubt that if Mark Zuckerberg had been on the other end of that, flagged murdered the baby's post when it came through, he himself would have deleted the comment and IP banned that person. Any human would. But Mark didn't put a human in charge of that job. He chose a robot. The biggest problem with the reason that has been responsible for so much bloodshed. It was also, by the way, absolutely critical to the rise of Rodrigo Duterte. Was now killed 20,000 people. He has a social media army who harasses and since death threats via Facebook to his detractors anyway, Facebook also sent people out to help train his team and how to use Facebook. That's fun. They do do that, don't they? Do the large donors. They send them people. Yeah, but the big reason that all of this violence has been possible is that Mark Zuckerberg launched his groundbreaking society, altering technology into countries that neither he nor anyone else at his company understood. This is the Silicon Valley equivalent of the Iraq war, which, by the way, was planned without the input of anybody who spoke. Arabic, let alone understood Iraqi culture. They did have one guy who's wanted to take Saddam down so that he could make a bunch of money because he was up other ****** and wanted to be power himself, but they didn't have any like experts on the culture involved in that. This is what Mark Zuckerberg did to you know when he brought the Internet via Facebook into tools. For distance, for a tool to become a weapon, you just have to hold it above your head. And there was no people from Myanmar know. People from Zambia, know people who were like working for Facebook and like on the ground in the country. They're letting algorithms deal with it and figuring that will be fine now, Victor Rio, a social media analyst in Myanmar, told the New York Times. A major issue in the spread of violent rhetoric via Facebook in that country was the fact that Facebook had almost no Burmese speakers that local watchdogs could communicate with. The few people who speak that language and work for Facebook are based in Dublin. Which you may note as not Myanmar. Not at all. Not even close, no. And this is where we see, in my opinion, the clearest downside of the move fast and break things ethos. Sometimes the things you break are people. Maybe if you're going to introduce a service to a new country, and that service has the potential to absolutely revolutionize the way they communicate, you should not do that until you have a sizable team of people who speak the language and understand the country actually working for you. Maybe doing anything else is unspeakably irresponsible and perhaps even evil. This is why Mark Zuckerberg is my pick for the worst monster of the 21st century so far. He is not a murderous, violent man like Vladimir Putin or Rodrigo Duterte. In fact, many if not most of the people who spend a lot of time around him describe him as warm, decent, a good listener and an empathetic person. But the 21st century so far is a period defined by arrogant mostly men, making rash decisions based on little evidence that have a shattering, violent impact on the lives of millions of people who live far away from them. Mark Zuckerberg is the equivalent of a little kid who asked for a BB gun. For Christmas and was given a nuclear warhead, and that is the positive way to spin this, the conclusion that gives him the most credit as a human being. There is a lot of evidence that this is exactly what Mark wanted, that his dream all along was to become basically the dictator of a digital nation, and that connecting people has been less important to him this entire time than building an empire. In October of 2010, Vanity Fair declared Mark Zuckerberg our new Caesar and an article lauding him as the greatest of the Silicon Valley Titans. I'm going to guess that was a comparison mark, really. Enjoyed? Here's another quote from that Fabulous New Yorker article. He first read the annoyed while he was studying Latin in high school, and he recounted the story of Annias's Quest and his desire to build a city that he said, quoting the text in English, knows no boundaries in time and greatness. Zuckerberg has always had a classical streak, his friends and family told me. Sean Parker, a close friend of Zuckerberg who served as Facebook's president when the company was incorporated, said there's a part of him that it was present even when he was 2021, that this kind of imperial tendency, he was really into Greek, Odysseus and all that stuff. At a product meeting a couple of years ago, Zuckerberg quoted some lines from the Indian. On the phone, Zuckerberg tried to remember the Latin of the particular phrases. Later that night he aimed me to tell Me 2 phrases. He remembered giving me the Latin and then the English. Fortune favors the bold and a nation empire without bound. They're all duly aware of how fake news spreads on Facebook and the impact it may have had on the 2016 election in the United States and, for some of us, our relationships with our family members. Mark denied this at first, but he has gradually copped to a tiny amount of responsibility for the hundreds of thousands of fake news pieces Russia's Internet research agency managed to promote. Although he thinks it's silly to blame the results of the election on that, there have been numerous calls since 2016 for mark to step down from his creation. He has so far refused them all at present, despite a falling stock price. And all the corpses. Mark Zuckerberg. There's no plans to give up his empire, and I don't think he ever will. No, I wouldn't. No. Why would he at this point? Yeah, he is my pick for worst person in the 21st century. Because he's like, it's like you, Hitler. Pretty much everyone going to call the worst person. In the 20th century, Mao killed more people, but now killed more people, mostly by accident. Hitler killed them because he wanted to kill them and kill them faster. Yeah, like concentration camps are a huge deal in that country. Hitler is the guy who really figured out how to make the most efficient, most vile, most like terrible and effective. Mark Zuckerberg is the greatest thing. That George Bush is another one. Just a **** *** guy got in power, ****** with a place he didn't understand and caused unspeakable harm, and Mark Zuckerberg is that guy. But for the world, it's just fascinating. And the reason I kept saying that marker marker. Eric Murdock is dumb is because I think, one, it would hurt his feelings the most. Yeah, that's the thing he clearly values. He clearly values it. And two, I don't understand how he just blatantly didn't want to consider anything outside of his. I'm going to connect this country, but I'm not going to have an office in this country where there are people who can deal with, say, the spread of violent and like racist propaganda. Yeah, that would reduce my stock value because it's more expensive. It's just it's baffling and. I don't know if a cautionary tale is correct, but kind of just like a diagnosis for like, a problem. It's a problem and it's fixed. Like, Facebook is here. You're not going to stop people from connecting on social media. He needs to be removed, right? He needs to be gone. Yeah. And we need to understand, like, a different set of values for what our online space is going to look like and how the tool is going to be used. If you have to put a guy in charge, pick someone like Hamdi Ulukaya, the Chobani CEO who is a refugee as a kid and understands the dangers of. People rhetoric spreading like wildfire. Yeah, yeah. It's just it's sad. It's sad and also speaks to the problem when power is hand in hand with money, because this will always be a problem when that's the case. And Mark will always have power. Yeah, because he will always be one of the richest people in the world and he will do God knows what with it next. God knows what, God knows what. But I'll bet you he doesn't think it through. Ohh, I bet he's not gonna do like what LeBron James did and just start good free schools for poor kids even though he could. He could do hundreds of them. There could be Facebook schools all over, but instead there is a Facebook hospital that does not accept anybody's insurance. But does it accept Bitcoin? *** ****. *** **** right it does. It does. You know, also a good time to point out that he doesn't have a charity, he has an LLC. Everything is for profit, but he's giving away 99% of his wealth. Yeah, sure, yeah. No. Are you telling me that when he said he was making a charity, he actually built a perpetual money machine for himself and his family? It was like what I'm saying that sounds like fun. Ohh Zucker zuck. Ohh man you crazy ****. Yeah, wow. It also, it's fascinating, you know, watching all these interviews of Zuckerberg, how many times he cites his origin story as portrayed by even though he says he doesn't like it. Yeah, he has really glommed on to that idea of himself. And this is, again, just a snake eating its own tail. He believes the mythos of his own genius, mark the Zuck. Zuck. Man with a samurai sword in one hand and dead Burmese baby in the other. That's how we should start picturing Zucker. That's the shirt. That's the shirt. That's the shirt. That's the shirt. Sophie, she's like. Looks like she thinks this is a terrible idea. And it may be, it may be, but let's do it anyway. Let's do it anyway. My income is no longer tied to Facebook. Ohh boy. Maggie, do you have any research that you didn't get to in this podcast? Because I know you did. A bunch. Even though normally our guests come in cold, which allows me to have the illusion of being smart, right? Well, again, I think we did basically cover all everything. The idea that he buys into his mythos when there was talk of him running for president. That ****** ******* that ****** ******. Make money, yes. Yeah, and it's also crazy he wanted to run for president, and yet when you hear him talk, he's a void of charisma. Oht yeah trick. You should look back as straight as a rod that should be on the T-shirt. Yeah, holding up a pot. Yeah, Ohh it's it's wild the way that he was able to adopt his own. I don't know. He became a Greek legend in his own mind and so literally nothing will stop him. He will keep stealing and keep breaking until there are laws in place. Which again, their company, every way they word their responses is basically a warning. Like, look, these are problems that we like may have, could have fixed, but one, first of all, like who seen it coming even though we could have seen it coming? Yeah, like who? And then secondly, basically we just like don't have a lot of resources. So like you better not try to like regulate us or like we more people. We don't need to be regulated. Yeah, why would that be necessary with the utility? Which we're not, right, even though people use us in their daily life and we're indispensable now, right? We're not a utility, so we can't be regulated or controlled in any way, shape or form. Yeah, it's a problematic mindset that comes from his background and who he is and his early success. And you know, the way that he talked about women being compared to farm animals. What are people signing up for Facebook but more farm animals? More dumb in his mind, people giving us their data. To hand off to others for profit, for profit and for the sake of completion, which I do think is a big fact, he just wants, he wants, he wants 6 billion. Six billion. He wants all of it. He wants, you know, when we tried to take over America, what does that called the expansion? Manifest? Destiny. Yeah, you're right. You're right. This is that exact attitude. Yeah, it's manifest destiny for the Internet and people. Data, yeah. That's a really good comparison to Jerome. Yeah. Yeah, I want to amend. We were joking a little bit earlier about, you know, people who have drug problems and then sober up and do terrible things. I think the answer is really, really rich kids should be encouraged. Just no, don't go. Don't start an app, don't start a company. Just do it. Your dad's got all the money. Just do **** load of drugs. Mark. It's fine. It's fine. It's fine. Be lazy and be by yourself and let some kid who's been at the other end of a hate mob and survived start the social network and be like, yeah, we got to make sure it can't be used to do this. Yeah, because that sucks. Because that's terrible. I know how bad that is. Yeah, yeah. I mean, again, it's just like another one in a long line of why. Like, diversity will make your company better, not just will make it better. We'll stop it from committing horrific crimes against humanity are ruining itself or ruining itself and its brand by contributing to horrible crimes against humanity. Well, Maggie, as we close this out, I'm going to propose something. We have these, these two Doritos, which are merged in the Dorito equivalent of coitus. I'm going to grab one, I want you to grab the other, and we'll pull them apart and we'll have these last burritos. OK? All right. Hmm. I feel like smoking a cigarette. That was no yeah, three episodes of a lot of stuff and two Doritos have a lot of love Doritos with a lot of love in them because Doritos are love my friends. Maggie, you want to plug your puggles before we close this episode out? Well first I will say since the the Loftus left Lofton, Lofton left for her new life with the Winklevoss. You make sure to follow her on Twitter, Jamie Loftus help, Jamie Loftus help you got, and Jamie cross superstar Jamie Christ superstar Insta, please. And also check out her podcast, Bechtel Kent, if you ever see her in public. Don't say anything to her, but hand her a single orange and then wordlessly walk away. She'll love it. That's so godfather. Just be worried she's gonna be assassinated. Well, she'll listen to the episode, probably. And that ruins the joke. It wasn't a nice joke. Do that. Or break a light bulb. Or break a light bulb. This is This is why you need a diverse crew around you. Otherwise I'd just be a ruinous light bulb. Chucking orange, throwing wreck. There you go. Like Stalin. Yeah. I would also be terrible without the people around me. I'm sure of it. We all are. That's why society exists, because we're gross monsters on our own. We need to help each other, be better. Yeah. So do follow. Follow her. Follow me on Twitter at Maggie Mae Fish and Instagram. You can find out my video essays. On film and cultural phenomenons on YouTube at Maggie Mae Fish, including a really fantastic one on David Fincher's ohh by ******* Fight Fight Club, great. It's great. Also when I was rewatching the social network, a lot of heavy lifting off of Fight Club and I will say much as Zuckerberg stole a lot of his data and ideas of Fincher stole a lot of his ideas from lesser known French and Russian filmmakers. Well, so who among us hasn't stolen from a Russian? That's that's why they're so angry. I mean, that's why they're so bad. Sophie's admitting to stealing from many Russians. I don't know where your dog came from. Like genetically, I don't know. Entirely possible. Came for some wolf on the Siberian steps. Could be no way to know. I mean, probably a way to know, but I don't know. I don't know. And I'm Robert Evans, the host of behind the ******** which you can find on the Internet at, where there will be the copious source list for this episode while these episodes. You can find us on the gram courtesy of Mark Zuckerberg at at ******** pod. You can find us on Twitter courtesy of another creepy guy at at ******** Pot. And I agree with Guy, who seems to have a real preference for Nazis. And you can find my book, A brief history of ice on Amazon, and there's a Bezos episode coming oht my God is there. I mean, how could there not be? How could there not be very excited? I'm very excited about his divorce. Whatever. Yeah, I'm glad she's getting a bunch of money that. I mean, that's why I'm excited. Yeah, she might become the richest woman in the world. I hope you recognize like you got 130 billion. Why fight 65 billion? 130 billion are the same amount of money. Like, yeah. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. I don't know the man. Anyway. I know the man. Yeah, we all kind of do, don't we? Yeah, we know we know him. We know him. I I do love. One of my favorite things is to look at pictures of Silicon Valley billionaires backward before they were billionaires. Like, like Elon Musk before he got money. It's so cute. OHP, he's pulling up. Ohh he he's a totally different man. He looks like Dana Carvey in that movie where Dana Carvey played a turtle. My God. Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. Ohh, that's a good note to end on a little bit of joy. Look up Elon Musk before he got rich and just have you a good time until next week. I'm Robert Evans and I love roughly 40% of you. Hey there, it's Ebony Monet, your co-host for the San Diego Zoo's Amazing Wildlife podcast. In this special episode, we're speaking with Doctor Jane Goodall about the fascinating journey that led to her impactful behavioral discoveries on chimpanzees. It wasn't until one of the chimpanzees began to lose his fear of me, but I began to really make discoveries that actually shook the scientific world. Isn't too amazing wildlife on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts? My name is Alex Fumero and I host the new podcast more than a movie American Me, a film directed by and starring Edward James Olmos. I'll be diving into the behind the scenes controversy, including an alleged backlash from the Mexican mafia. Several people who worked on the movie have been murdered. I don't want to speak about why would people be murdered for being in a movie? Listen to more than a movie American me. On the iHeartRadio App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts, sisters of the Underground is a podcast about fearless Dominican women who stood up against the brutal dictator Kapal Trujillo. He needs to be stopped. We've been silent and complacent for far too long. I am Daniel Ramirez, and as a Dominicana myself, I am proud to be narrating this true story that is often left out of the history books through your has blood on his hands. Listen to sisters of the underground wherever you get your podcasts.