Behind the Bastards

There’s a reason the History Channel has produced hundreds of documentaries about Hitler but only a few about Dwight D. Eisenhower. Bad guys (and gals) are eternally fascinating. Behind the Bastards dives in past the Cliffs Notes of the worst humans in history and exposes the bizarre realities of their lives. Listeners will learn about the young adult novels that helped Hitler form his monstrous ideology, the founder of Blackwater’s insane quest to build his own Air Force, the bizarre lives of the sons and daughters of dictators and Saddam Hussein’s side career as a trashy romance novelist.

Part One: The World Anti-Communist League: A Study in Nazi Death Squads

Part One: The World Anti-Communist League: A Study in Nazi Death Squads

Tue, 19 Jul 2022 07:00

Christopher Wong is joined by Robert to find out where all the Nazis went after World War II.



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Hey, Robert here. It's been like two months since I had LASIK and I'm still seeing 2020. All I had to do was go in for a consultation, then go in for a maybe 10 minute procedure and then my eyes have been great ever since. You know, I healed up wonderfully. It was very simple, couldn't have been a better experience. So if you want to explore LASIK plus I can't recommend it enough. They have over 20 years experience in the industry and they performed more than two million treatments right now if you want to try getting LASIK plus you can get $1000 off of your surgery when you're treated in September, that's $500. Of per eye, just to schedule your free consultation. Hello, I'm Erica Kelly from the podcast Southern Fried true crime. And if you want to go from podcast fan to podcast host, do what I did and check out spreaker from iheart. I was working in accounting and hating it. Then after just 18 months of podcasting with Spreaker, I was able to quit my day job. Follow your podcasting dreams. Let's breaker handle the hosting, creation, distribution, and monetization of your podcast. Go to That's Hey there, it's Ebony Monet, your co-host for the San Diego Zoo's Amazing Wildlife podcast. In this special episode, we're speaking with Doctor Jane Goodall about the fascinating journey that led to her social discoveries on chimpanzees SO4-O months, the chimps ran away from me. I mean, they take one look at this peculiar white ape and disappear into the vegetation. Bing wildlife on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. What's assassinating my John little sons. Why? Why? Why, Sophie? Why did I say that? I don't know. Why would anyone say such a terrible thing? That's what I want to know. Robert. I'm. I'm simply asking you why you would start. Like, why? I don't know. Nobody knows, Sophie. That's the most important thing is that no one knows why things happen and where they happen. I disagree. Or who they happen to, but this is behind the ******** podcast. Bad people tell you all about them and, uh, normally this is a podcast where I read a story about a bad person to somebody who's coming in cold. But today I am the person who is chilly, who is who is coming in frigid frost on my shoulders. As I talk to my good buddy Chris. Chris, how you doing? Doing OK. It is thundering incredibly ominously, which I feel like is a good example for the story. Yes, ominous Thunder, nothing better. Turn up your mic, pick up. Let's get some of that on the line. It's like, I can like feel stuff shaking a little bit. It's a, it is a is a pretty impressive Thunder round, yeah. That's good. How are you? What are we? What are we? What are we? What are what are we today? What are we talking about? Who are we? Where are we? Robert? We were told that after the war, the Nazis vanished without a trace. But Battelle is what I know about Nazis. That they went away forever after the war. Still dream of a master race. The history books, they tell us of their defeat in 45. But, Robert, why did they all come out of the woodwork on the day the Nazi died? Now, OK, I've, I've, I've done, I've done my obligatory chumbawamba and so now I can answer this actually question you did. That was a good that was a good chumbawamba. I liked it. Thanks, Chris. I'm gonna have to throw a I'm gonna have to womba some chambers later on here, but I'll, I'll let that be something that we build to. The funny thing is, my favorite version of that song actually isn't the Chumbawamba version. It's the was it the like the Stockholm's women's anti fascist choir did a version of it that rules. There we go. That does sound nice. Yes, it is, is, is, is very exciting. And the other thing is exciting is that the answer to that question is that I it turns out after the day the Nazi died, the Nazis came out of the woodwork and they all joined the World Anti Communist League and that is there we go, there we go. Today's story. Yeah, these guys guys. Ohh bunch of real freaks and weirdos. Now, excellent, somewhat weirdly, I for a story that is about a lot of Nazis, we're actually not starting in Germany. This this the the actual story here. Yeah, well, I mean, what what are the sort of consistent themes of this entire episode is? Stuff happening around the orbit of the Soviet Union. And so the the I, I guess you could technically start the story in Ukraine, but I didn't do that and instead I'm starting it in China in the year 1923. And this is a year in which the Soviets are going to create a monster that will haunt them until the day of the USSR collapses, and that monster is called the KMT or the Chinese the Chinese Nationalist Party. Now. OK, people who know the history of this are going to be like, Chris, have you lost your mind? What do you mean the Soviets created the camp? And the answer is yes, I have lost my mind, but it is for reasons that are completely unrelated to this. What? What's this? For reasons that are related to The Daily Show we all agreed to do. Yeah, that, yeah, and also also this episode. But yes, The Daily Show I who what a good idea that was. I I genuinely cannot believe I was sober while I agreed to that incredible, ****** widely baffling decisions. Yes. Very happy we got multiple other people brought on to deal with that problem we created for ourselves. Barbara and I were not sober when we agreed to that deal. I mean, that explains a lot. I was sober last in 2009, so anyway. Maybe 2010, OK. Yeah, that's that's that's pretty recent. So, OK. So we've actually talked about this. I did all the way back in the warlord, the episode about the Chinese warlord. That I did. So the the Nationalist Party or the KMT is by by Chinese standards, even in like you know 1923, there are pretty old political formation by Chinese standards. It's founded in 1894 by Sunday at 7, but by but WOW, I had no idea it went back that far. Yeah well, it's kind of weird. So it it's it's. There there are two different dates you see about it. Found that there's one date where Sonia stand starts an organization that joins another organization. But yeah, it's pretty, it's pretty, it's it's really like the oldest of the sort of continuous, like Chinese revolutionary groups that come out of this sort of pre overthrow of the Qing dynasty era. And, you know, it does a lot of stuff. They do a bunch of revolutions, but in 23, they're just a disaster. They're they're a complete mess. They're they're their organizational mess, their political mess. Militarily is a mess. Financially is a mess. Like, this is supposed to be like a mass political party, right? They're trying to take over all of China. They don't. They don't even have a newspaper. It is. It is. It is. This is. This is China's Democratic Party. Yeah. And the USSR having failed in their attempt to sort of bring revolution to the W via, like, the Red Army storming into Eastern Europe, the consequences of which we will get back to you in a second. the US returns his attention East and Sun. Yet Sen the Bolsheviks come to an agreement in which the Soviets start sending advisors and weapons to arm the KMT in the war against the sort of Chinese warlords. And chief among those people is a guy named Michael board. And I don't know if it's Michael or Michael. Probably should be McHale if they're Russian. You always say Michael is Michael. Yeah. Michael Borden. Who's he? He's like, yeah, that's a Russian astronaut. Yeah. Yeah, he's he's he's a he's like a Michael board. Yeah, that's a good one. He's like, he's like the Bolshevik. Bolshevik. Like, he's a very, very old school like Guy, Guy, Guy who left the Bund and joined the Bolsheviks in, like, 1903. Yeah. He has this, like impeccable sort of revolutionary credentials and old linens morning breath like that. That close. Yeah. Yeah. And and he is about to make one of the worst mistakes the USSR has ever made, which is pretty impressive if you look at the history of the USSR. Yes. Which includes the largest lake in the world that they killed. It's it's it's pretty remarkable. And like this one, I probably killed more people than than losing that lake, which is. Yeah, I look, I'm a big believer that like, **** lakes, **** them all, kill every lake. I mean, look, hey you, you 2 can become the Soviet Union way away, wage a protracted People's War against lakes. Exactly this. This is my opinion. When the revolution comes, the first thing we need to deal with is not the fascists, you know, it's not, not, not like control of the far right in in Florida or wherever we get a nuke the Great Lakes. Not the cities. We gotta nuke the lakes themselves. That's the only thing that's gonna protect us, Sophie. Ohh, I know. I know what you're gonna say, but I need you to listen to a song called the Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald by Gordon Lightfoot. And then tell me those lakes don't have some vengeance coming. We're not. Blowing up the lakes we could we shouldn't slogan a nuke for every lake. A nuke for every lake Christopher for all the great ones. Mm-hmm. **** them lakes. That is the official stance of cool Zone media on the Great Lakes. I like watching Nuke the lakes. Yeah, absolutely. They would be good for everybody. It'll bring in tourism to whatever cities people have on those ******* lakes. It'll be good for people. So no, that's just science. That's just mathematics. The spit is going on. So long. Please, please save us from this, Chris. Speaking of saving people from things so. Borden with Soniat sensor of helping approval turns the KMT into like a modern mass political party. With this sort of centralized organization and this centralized political apparatus, they get an actual like ideology. And as this become going to become very important later on in the story, the party starts to develop political and ideological discipline. And and as part of this effort, the nationalist Senchenko check to the USSR to study to Soviet military and ideological techniques. And when he comes back, they put him in charge of a sort of new Soviet style Military Academy from which he is going to build an absolutely enormous power base in the army, because he's the guy who is now training all of the officers. But the Soviets are like, oh, this is fine, they they they they call him the red General lachica check like, shakes hands with Stalin. And everything seems to be going great, except there's there's there's one minor problem here. Shanghai Shek is not a communist. He is not a leftist at all. He's like basically he's a gangster who's like kind of nationalist. Now the, the the other thing that that's that's extremely bad about all of this is that sun. Yet Sen dies in 1925 and Shanghai Shek is pretty rapidly able to take control of the party. Now, now and the other thing that's happening here is that even by sort of Soviet standards, right, this is this is pre Stalin like fully taking control. So even by Soviet standards the, the, the the new sort of KMT organization is incredibly centralized and the person at the top of it has an enormous amount of political power. And so, you know, Chica, Chica takes over the party and he also sort of personally commands the loyalty of this new generation of officers who've been trained by the Soviets, has much Soviet weapons. And, you know, the the result of this is that he now has the best army of an hinese political faction. And what has happened here is that the Soviets have in essence like they they have built a party in their own image, right. They they've built this party that's designed with this sort of like ruthless efficiency and stamping out kind of revolutionaries. And they have handed it to a fanatical anti Communist drug Lord who immediately turns around and uses it to massacre like the entire Chinese urban working class and the first of his white terrorists. Now that seems bad for organs. Yeah, it's it's not good. My, my, my favorite part. I think I told the story in the in the last episode. My favorite part? About this though, is that like, OK, so Shanghai Shek is like killing the communist, right, like in 1927. And the communists are like, they they they go to the Soviet Union like, hey, what should we do? And the Soviet Union is like they're having some kind of like. Trotsky and Stalin are having some kind of argument and the line that comes out of them is like, well, you guys have to like, stay allied with this party that is murdering you. And it's just like, yeah. And then they all die, right. He he kill something like a million people. OK. So that's that's a pretty serious set of crimes against humanity there. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's really bad. And this is this is like, this is this is the Soviets doing great stuff, but, you know, OK. So Shank Ishak kills, kills about a million people trying to wipe all the Chinese left. But we can we can ask ourselves another question, which is how did this actually go for a Shanghai shack in the long term? And this is a question that can be answered by answering. The very simple question Robert, who actually won the Chinese Civil War? Was it? China. Technically hmm. So it went well, yeah, it went great. Yeah. That that's this is, this is This is why Taiwan and China are currently one country run by the the the Chinese national government. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's great. I mean if you listen to America for roughly a generation and 1/2 Taiwan is China and the only Chinese government that we need to worry about. Yeah, we we will we will come back to that because that that turns out to be a thing in this story. But, you know, so she kaishek like. The net effect of Chiang Kai Shek's like incredibly vehement anti communism is that he creates another monster who is going to absolutely destroy him. That that that, that person of course being mousey Dong. And, you know, when you sort of, like take kind of macro view of this. Right, this whole thing is a cycle, right. The the Bolsheviks are the monster that sort of capitalism unleashed when they crushed the Paris Commune. The Bolsheviks created the modern KMT and the KMT, you know, like, slaughters the entire urban, like Chinese Communist Party. And they, you know, they unleash another monster by turning the CCP into the sort of the peasant army that Mao was going to use to crush the KMT themselves after World War Two. But, you know, the, the, the problem here and the problem for this story is that Mao didn't actually finish off the. MTG that you know, they they retreat to Taiwan after losing the Civil war. And they're able to do this because. In 1947, the KMT forces that were occupying Taiwan do what they call the February 28th incident, and it it it it's kind of complicated. We will one day do a full thing on this, but the basics of it is there's an uprising in Taiwan against the sort of brutality of the KMT occupation. And the KMT kills something like 20,000 people in a week. And this is like, you know, this is a Jenny white horror, right. Like they're beheading student is a lot of people to kill in a week. Yeah. Yeah. Could kill maybe 5000 people in a week. Yeah. I mean you you have the resources we have here at cool Zone Media. Yeah, tops, 5000I, I think. I I think if we, I think you can do 5000, if we pull everyone else together, we can get that number up to maybe seven. Yeah. We have a lot of staff now. We do have a lot of staff now. We have a lot of staff now. Sophie, can we can we get some of the numbers of people to just to just run that by? So we we have. Options on the table. Sure, Robert. OK. Thank you, Sophie. Yeah. So, so, you know, the KMT is like the they're like cutting people, like cutting parts of people's faces off and like taking them. It's it's really bad, right? This is like, this is, this is like, this is basically like the foundational, like crime of modern Taiwanese political history. And it's there's like. A huge portion of like all of the politics that are going to happen in Taiwan from then until like now are in large part because of this. And if you read books about Shanghai Shek like, well the book books are not about Shanghai Shek, but we're like Shanghai Shek shows up for some reason. This is like the crime that they always talk about and you know it is really bad. But the thing you have to understand about check is that like this is probably not even in his top ten war crimes like this. This is a man who once killed 400,000 civilians by blowing up a single dam. After the February 28 incident, Taiwan until like. The 90s is under this thing, this thing called the White Terror, where, you know, the government disappears much people, they kill a bunch of people, they torture a bunch of people. But The thing is, again, this is his second white terror, right, man? And you know, that's something he and I have in common because that's what people call me when I've had a couple too many. And you tell me that much, huh? You know, actually I, I feel like, I feel like I should actually have looked into check drug use more because this guy, this guy is running a lot of drugs. But you know, but the thing about these white terrorists, right, is that like, OK, the, the, the, the, the white terror that he does in Taiwan is like a genuine horror, right. It's it's also he killed something like a 25th of the people at the first white terror killed. Like, well, this guy that's good. So he's moving in the right direction. A couple more tears and he won't be killing anybody at all. Well, I mean, the thing, the thing at Shank Shank does, we're gonna see in the story is that he stops, OK. He doesn't stop killing people in Taiwan, but like the number of people he kills in Taiwan go down over time, the number of people killed. And that's this is sort of a win. The number of people he kills in every other country just starts, like rapidly increasing as time goes on. Yeah, I mean, you got you. Look, you're going to kill the people somewhere. So. I feel like still progress. Yeah. We're we're we're we're only gonna do a we're gonna do a a soft white terror in Taiwan and we're going to do a hard white terror in Guatemala. So you know and and like I think the thing with check right is the reason she's not remembered as one of the sort of like great historic world historical monsters like again this is a guy like killing 20,000 people in a week is like Tuesday for Chiang Kai Shek. And like the only reason he's not remembered as this sort of like monster is that he's overshadowed once again by like the sort of the the the the Trio quad. Thing of moused, Allen, Hitler and Churchill. Yeah, there's a lot of people doing like, he killed 1,000,000 people and that's that. That's pretty good numbers. Any other year, he's probably got like, yeah, I mean he's probably got a million or four million. Yeah, which and that's solid. Look, don't get me wrong, solid numbers historically, like if you're, if you're 34 million dead, pretty good. You're doing real good as a war criminal on a historic level. But, man, first half of the 20th century, yeah, that **** doesn't even get you on the board. You're like, you're like, you're like a C Lister. It's the the LeBron James of genocide are out in the streets in those days, and there's there's a lot of them like this ******* Scottie Pippen *** mass murder ain't gonna cut it. How was that survey? Was that, was that a good basketball? I mean, it depends on who you're asking, but yes, thank you. Acceptable, but but very subjective. I approve. Scottie Pippen was the only other basketball player I could think of. I assume he's not as good as LeBron James. I mean, he would say he is, but. Hmm. Yeah. Yep. So would Chiang Kai shek. But sorry, bro. I mean, look at this thing. What Shanghai shek is. That Shinkai shack has the ability to shoot you if you don't agree with him. I I I don't think Scottie Pippen has the ability to sort of, like, mobilize an entire death squad apparatus to make everyone think that he's better than LeBron James. No, no. The the only basketball player who had a solid death squad apparatus was, of course, Shaq. Are we just going to see how many basketball players you could remember? I liked it. I mean, it also, once again, did work. Thank you. I recently watched the new Adam Sandler basketball movie. So I'm, I'm, I'm very eligible. Yeah. About basketball. What was funny about that? Sophie is like, every third second in that movie, somebody comes on screen and you. I can tell whenever they come on that like, oh, that's a famous basketball guy. And I'm supposed to have a reaction to the fact that he's in this movie, too. But it means nothing to me every time. Yeah. You didn't have me there to be like, that's who that is. And you're going, I don't care. And then that's when this is my blah, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. Yeah. He's the best. Touchdown. Go patriots. You were doing so well. OK, also, that's yeah. Don't ever say that in front of Chris. By the way, Chris really hates the Patriots. I will. I will go back to my Taiwanese roots and Kavita Desquite. I know if you knew this, Chris, but Chris really ******* hates the Patriots. Guess no one's gonna be doing a hole in one. I don't know wow brave we're we're let's get back to the story so check paycheck in a lot of ways is he he is incredibly ahead of his time yeah you know so so OK you can talk with sort of like the periods of anti communism right and you know he he he has this problem that he he's working and he's working in a period of anticommunism which the Nazis exist and you know what while while the Nazis are around the Nazis just sort of like the top dog of anticommunism although Chichak was allied with the Nazis and he like his son was in the was in the vimrc. And he he almost LED like a he almost led like not a division, but he almost LED like troops into Poland. He only reason he didn't was that he got pulled back to Taiwan to like, fight off the Japanese. Yeah, but you know, I mean this is one of those one of the areas of Nazi history that people don't get enough. Which is that like, while Nazis are pretty much tied directly into like white supremacist **** today, the OG Nazis were extremely willing to work with people who who were of a from a variety of different, like ethnic groups and including fight with there was an Indian. The Pakistani military unit in the s s cause again. Racism changes over time, like everything else. And innovates. Yeah. I mean, like I talked about this before, but yeah there were there were Nazi military advisers like leading Chinese troops in the Battle of Shanghai. And it's it's very weird, but you know, Jake Ashek, like, he loses this war, but but he he really has the, the, the prototype for the the sort of second phase of anti communism, which is that if you look at the KMT, right. He. It has an incredibly centralized party ideological party apparatus. It has a bunch of death squads and it's funding itself as an anti Communist dictatorship via the drug trade. So he he is doing, he is like 40 years ahead of everyone who was doing anti communism and. So what you are two of the the the two journalists whose book I'm going to be using for a lot of this, uh Scott and John Lee Anderson. They're true journalists who grew up in Taiwan under the military dictatorship, and they they called this model of anti Communist Party the Death Squad party, for reasons that we will see shortly. And yeah, they're they're, they're they're going to spend a lot of time exporting this to other places. Now, what sort of interesting is that Shank? Shank was, like, hated by, like, every American officer who had to interact with him during World War Two, which, like, yeah, yeah, no, no ****. Like, yeah, me too, buddy. I also hate this guy, but I'm admittedly biased because his government tried to publicly execute one of my great uncles. OK, well, what was your great uncle doing, though? How was he dressed? He was just pretty. Well, he. There's a long story. There's a long story about what exactly happened there. Right. And you think he did in fact, survive? However, I'm still holding it against him for trying to publicly execute him, yeah. Yeah but but you know it's weird. So what? While the Civil War is going on Andrew will War Two. Everyone hates him but the moment he loses the Civil War he becomes the cause celeb of what's called the China lobby in the US. Where these like hardline anti communists whose things that they want to like help Chiang Kai Shek in. He's just incredible delusion that one day he's going to like invade China again and retake the homelands like and like he like the the government in Taiwan made my mom who was like 5 singing songs about how they were. They were gonna reclaim the motherland one day. It was. Just good, yeah. This place is like like it is. A just sort of. Incredibly neurotic, like. Sort of totalitarian military dictatorship. Yeah, I feel. I mean. First off, squad goals. But yeah, that, that that that sounds like it could be a problem to live under. Yeah. And but, you know, of course, like the people who backed, of course, are the the best and brightest of the people in American politics. You have Douglas MacArthur. Ohh, yeah. Yeah. He's a good one. Right. This is this is fresh after he attempted to start a nuclear war in order to distract from the fact that he had completely ****** the war in Korea. Yep. There's there's another very famous person you probably know. Joseph McCarthy, better known for other works. Yeah. Oh God, of course, yeah. Joe McCarthy. Slick Joe, known for great guy, nothing bad. Yeah. Yeah, great. And and and so so the the KMT and their American allies start like looking for other sort of like fanatical anti communists, like a list of their cause. And this search eventually leads them to the formation of the World Anti Communist League One of the people who they find is perching key. Who is the built? OK, he's the second military dictator of South Korea. And I keep saying we're going to do an episode about him one day, and I promise you will. But there's so much wild *** especially in this. Korean history, that people in this guy and states don't know **** all about. It's really good, real good. ****. This guy like, this is a guy who so he he fought for the Japanese in World War Two and OK, so like, there are a lot of Japanese people who were forced to, like, conscripted into fighting the Japanese army. Sure. It was a dictatorship. Yeah, that's the way it goes. But per chunky is not one of those guys. He fought for the Japanese Empire because he loved like, like I from from pure ideology. He was like, you look at the Japanese Empire was like, oh **** I love this. And you know, like he is. He is incredibly fast. Like this is the guy who knows Sukeshi talked to after the war and was like, whoa buddy, you gotta tone the fascism **** down a little bit, like. It it's it's it's wild and and you know. But like like just OK utterly inexplicably this is this is the second like. 2nd communist decision in this episode. I'm just like, what are you guys doing? They they, the communists let him join the Communist Party. And this is baffling to me. Like, here is a dude who literally fought for the Japanese on purpose. And, you know, the community looks at, it goes like, what should we do with emboss? I know, let's let him in the party. And so he, like, immediately gets arrested and just instantly like the the fastest ratting I've ever seen in my entire life, just like rats on his comrades to the government, which like, like, OK, so I, I, I, I am in principle against snitching. I also, like, really don't understand what the Communists were expecting was going to happen here. Like you, you brought in a guy who fought for the Japanese army on purpose. Of course he was instantly going to betray you. Like. Really I baffling stuff. Yeah, that I mean the Korean communists, but so in 1961 he chooses the government and he's the guy who like really fully brings Korea on board with this whole sort of like world empty Communist League thing. He starts sending like generals and like CIA guys to the league. The Moonies are also. A big part of this, I'm not going to talk about that here because I have to talk listens a lot. Yeah, go listen to a lot and then make your own electronically fired blunderbus. Yeah, that's that's the official stance of this show. I look, I just they they deserve it. So the the the other Beijing group that that's involved in the creation of the world Anti Communist League is called the anti Bolshevik bloc of nations or the ABN. And the ABN are a bunch of people who they're united by like 2 things. One is that they really hate the Soviets. The second thing that United is that they did the Holocaust. So, well, that's bad. Yeah. Yeah. The the the the ABN was was founded by a guy named Yaroslav Stetko. Who I I think if if if you've been like looking into Ukrainian history in the last, like, you know, here you probably you might know who this guy is. He he's the guy who was chosen by Stefan Bandera to be the second in command of the newly formed organization of Ukrainian Nationalists. I'm glad that didn't wind up going anywhere. Oh yeah. No it look it completely stalled out. They they they they never ended up fighting or fine. Everything's great. Look like they they they they did not end up fighting for the Nazis during Operation Barbarosa. He Setsuko does not walk into the city of Levav alongside a bunch of guys from the wymark and immediately start doing the Holocaust. None of this ever happens I they didn't kill 7000 people in like. I think, I think a week. Most most of whom were. I mean, honestly, compared to kaishek numbers, that's that's rookie. Yeah, well, I mean it. It's weird because like, OK, so like in in any other group of people. Like this guy is, you know, a world historical monster. He's kind of on the B team in terms of like the people in this episode, maybe the C team. So the thing that he does is, so he he he gets into love and he immediately declares like a new independent, like Ukrainian state with him as a leader. And I'm just gonna read from the speech that he gave when he was declaring this independent Ukrainian state, the Ukrainian state will corrupt, will closely cooperate with great national Socialist Germany, which under the leadership of Adolf Hitler will create a new order in Europe and throughout the world. The Ukrainian army will fight together with the Allied German army for the new Order in the world. Well, it didn't quite happen. So that's. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, well, yeah, this number, choosing 1 is the Nazis lose. 2 is that he instantly gets arrested because the Nazis were like, hey, you guys didn't tell us that you were gonna declare an independent state. Like, yeah, we do not. We don't. We don't want there to be a Ukraine. Yeah, I know. And this is something we're in agreement with the Russians about, actually. Yeah. We don't want this country to exist. Yeah. And and, you know, so he just went in prison estetico like Tesco, like after after the war. He will claim that, like, he was put in a concentration camp and the Nazis, like, persecuted. Them like, this is kind of true, but like, OK, so the thing, the thing that they put him under is called, quote, honorary arrest. And he's like, he's in like the Nice prison. And they let him out like a few times, like during this, while this is going on so we can coordinate more stuff. And in 1944, they let him out just like, entirely because the war is going so badly. They were like, screw it, let's throw the Ukrainians at the at the Russians. And he, he and Bandera formed this thing called the the Ukrainian Insurgent Army, which fights the Red Army. And they also do some like incredibly **** ***** fighting of the Nazis, which was like largely, as best I could tell, this largely seems to be so they could like say that we fought the Nazis. I'm going to read a passage here from the Book Transnational Anti Communism and the Cold War about what happened next at the end of 1943 in the forest of OH God, I don't know how to pronounce this Joe Tamir. Gosalia the West part of the western part of Ukraine, these same Ukrainian nationalists held the first clandestine Congress of the anti Bolshevik Bloc of nations, the ABN, creating at the same time the Ukrainian National Army. The UPA. UPA then took part in attacks on the retreating finemark, while at the same time harassing the Red Army, the Communist partisans and Jewish citizens. Due to their suspected communist sympathies. The UPA, consisting of around 70,000 guerrillas, were joined by fragments of the S Ukraine, Belarusian, Russian and Cossack battalions. As well as Hungarian, Romanian, Soviet, Baltic and Georgian deserters. Now the the author is being like a bit too kind to the UPA here. The main reason that they are quote hurt, that they quote harassed Jewish citizens because like an enormous number of these are just people are just like fanatical anti Semites. But this is the birth table, anti ******** block of nations. And again, like fetsko, this is a guy who fought for the Nazis. I he probably has the lowest body count of the next like four groups I'm going to talk about. Also in the the anti Bolshevik block of nations, something called the Croatian Liberation movement. The Creation Liberation movement was led by a guy named Stefan Heffer who formed it alongside Ante Pavlovic who is the founder of the Ustasha. Now do you, Sasha, are a they're they're creation fascist organization that fought alongside the Nazis, and we're giving control of a new sort of Croatian fascist puppet state with Anton Pavlovich as as its leader. Here's from the Holocaust Museum about what happened next at a concentration camp called Chodosh Civic. I I did learn how to pronounce it, then I immediately forgot. Yeah. So there's a lot of concentration camps. Yeah. Well, this is, this is the third largest camp in Europe. Between this is yeah, this is from the the Holocaust Museum. Between its establishment in 1941, it's evacuation. In April 1945, Croat authorities murdered hundreds of thousands of people at Joseph Vic. Among the victims were between 45,000 and 52,000 Serbian residents of the so-called independent state of Croatia, between 12,000 and 20,000 Jews, between 15,000 and 20,000 Roma between 5000 and 12,000 ethnic Croats and Muslims who are political opponents of the regime. The Croat authorities murdered. Between 320,000 and 340,000 ethnic Serb residents of Croatia and Bosnia during the period of Ustasha rule, more than 30,000 Croatian Jews were killed either in Croatia or at Auschwitz. And to put this into perspective, that is over 75% of like all Croatian Jews who are killed by the usage in the Holocaust. And the thing about this camp is that, like unlike the rest of the concentration camps in Europe, they don't have gas chambers. They are they are doing all of these killings by hand. And. It's not just that they're doing this by hand. I'm going to read this, uh, I think from the truth. Yeah. I mean, that's. Yeah, that's the ******* Sasha. Yeah. Yeah. The late Jasa Alamanni, who served as a as president of the Belgrade Jewish Community, described just sophic as barbaric, saying that the murders were predominantly carried out manually. Very seldom did they use bullets, he said, because they believe the victims didn't merit it. Almoney describes some of the ustashi's methods, which included cutting the eyes out of their victims and slitting their throats, throwing life prisoners into brick furnaces and poisoning children. And, you know, you've talked a lot about on this show about how the Nazis, like, we're trying to execute Jews by firing squad and they couldn't psychologically handle it. And that's, you know, that's why the gas chambers, the ustashi can do this. Yeah. Like they they keep doing this the entire war. Yeah. The, there's, I mean, one of the many stories about the Holocaust isn't old enough is that like the actual German s s, we're not nearly the most brutal war criminals on the Nazi side, the Ustashi. ******* nightmare people and others. Like, if you look at what's happening in the ******* Balkans during this period of time, like what's going down and what becomes Serbia and Bosnia and how the genocides are being conducted there by Nazi allies, like, it's a lot of the same thing, which is like, oh, we'll just, we'll just strangle people. We'll just cut their heads off by the thousands. Like, we don't need to waste bullets on this ****. We don't need gas chambers like the the very, as is often the case in wars, like the nastiest ******* **** happens in these, these places like the Balkans and chunks of Eastern Europe. That and with soldiers from those areas where, like there's there's already, when the war hits kind of a heightened level of acceptance of violence just because of **** in the recent past. And like the, the, the, the most nightmare stories come from a lot of those, those places kind of on the fringes of the Nazi power. Yeah. And like these, like you should like, it gets to a point where like there there, there, there, there is, there are like there are instances where like the Nazis disband their units because like what they're doing. They're like, hey, guys like, yeah. You're a bit far. Well, I mean, there's a thing, a number of things cause, like, again, it's bad for morale. Like Nazis. Nazis are complaining about what some of these units are doing. Yeah. This isn't what soldiers do, right? Is the attitude some folks have like it's it's it's a mess. Yeah and so Stefan Heifer who she's going to become an important world anti Communist leader and a member of the sort of it's good block of nations. He's he seems like a good guy. He he was the Governor General of Baranja County when the in the new Nazi Croatian state. And Anton Pavlovich he was again the founder of the Ustashi is the found one of the founders of the crucial liberation movement which is the Croatian representative at the ABN. It's great. Cool. Do you guys have careers? This is great, Robert. Is it products and services, Chris, because let me tell you. Confusingly, we are sponsored by the USTASHI. I a lot of people will say why are you sponsored by Ustashi and I'll say. You should check out their promo code. How we doing, Sophie? No words, no words. I've got nothing happy about that. Well, that's just that happened. Here's ads. Mint Mobile offers premium wireless starting at just 15 bucks a month. And now for the plot twist. Nope, there isn't one. Mint Mobile just has premium wireless from 15 bucks a month. There's no trapping you into a two year contract. You're opening the bill to find all these nuts fees. There's no luring you in with free subscriptions or streaming services that you'll forget to cancel and then be charged full price for none of that. For anyone who hates their phone Bill, Mint Mobile offers premium wireless for just $15.00 a month. Mint Mobile will give you the best rate whether you're buying. Or for a family. And it meant family start at 2 lines. All plans come with unlimited talk and text, plus high speed data delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. You can use your own phone with any mint mobile plan and keep your same phone number along with all your existing contacts. Just switch to Mint mobile and get premium wireless service starting at 15 bucks a month. Get premium wireless service from just $15.00 a month and no one expected plot twist at That's Seriously, you'll make your wallet. Very happy at Mint Mobilcom behind now a word from our sponsor better help. If you're having trouble stuck in your own head, focusing on problems dealing with depression, or just you know can't seem to get yourself out of a rut, you may want to try therapy, and better help makes it very easy to get therapy that works with your lifestyle and your schedule. A therapist can help you become a better problem solver, which can make it easier to accomplish your goals, no matter how big or small they happen to be. So if you're thinking of giving therapy. Try better help is a great option. It's convenient, accessible, affordable, and it is entirely online. You can get matched with a therapist after filling out a brief survey, and if the therapist that you get matched with doesn't wind up working out, you can switch therapists at any time when you want to be a better problem solver therapy can get you there. Visit behind today to get 10% off your first month. That's better Betterhelp com behind this fall on revisionist history. Is there anything that we haven't talked about or or I should have asked you or you'd like to add that seems relevant? You should have asked me why I'm missing fingers on my left hand. A story about sacrifice. I think his suffering drove him to try to alleviate suffering. And the shocking discovery I made where I faced the consequences of writing a book I thought would help people, isn't that funny? It's not funny at all. It's depressing. Very depressing. Revisionist history is back with more. Listen to revisionist history on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. I've never seen less enthusiasm for a great idea in my life. Ohh yes. Alright, so meanwhile the Romanian delegation of of the the the ABN is a bunch of people from the Iron Guard who is a Romanian fascist organization that did this Trina Fascist uprising in 1941. A mob of several 100 attacked the Sephardic Temple, American correspondent Lee White reported at the time, smashing its windows with stones and battering down its doors with lengths of timber. All objects of ritual prayer books, shaws, Talmud Torahs, altar benches and tapestries were carried outside and piled into a heap, which is soaked in gasoline and set a fire. A number of Jewish pedestrians were herded together and forced to dance in a circle around the bonfire. When they dropped an exhaustion, they were doused in gasoline and burned alive, and I I cut that description off, it gets way worse. After that, like, yeah, if if doused in gasoline and burned alive as like, that's a mile ramp up. Yeah, that's before we really put our foot on the gas it gets like they are. All I will say about that is they are incredibly, they're incredibly specific and how they use their anti-Semitism to kill people, it's like it's it's stuff you couldn't, it's stuff you couldn't write a serial killer doing because. Yeah and and this is, this is this is the Romanian delegation to the ABN. Belarus's delegate delegation is called the Belarusian liberation movements. It's representative is a guy named Dimitri. Chasma Vich, who was appointed by the Nazis as the chief of Police of Small Nesquik, where he exterminated Jews and Communists. Yeah. And he also joined an s s Commando unit to fight the Soviets and was eventually smuggled out of a refugee camp by British intelligence and worked for the American Army. Good. It's great. And and yeah he so he founded this entire thing as a way to spy on the Soviets for the US and at this point we should mention that like this entire like just literal group of people who did the Holocaust is funded by both the US and the UK. The APN is like all over American politics. Like they they successfully lobbied the US that doing into doing this thing that like. I'm pretty sure by the time this comes out, Biden will have also done his version of it, which is called a captive nations week. Which is like, all presidents still do this to this day. It's supposed to be this thing that, like, honors nations held captive by authoritarian governments. And that's nice. It's the, it's the, it's the political equivalent of the like slapping a drowning handmade there you go, Kurds. Well, and I I also like I I really want to, like, just take a moment to appreciate that the United States government, which is a state that literally holds hundreds of indigenous nations captive and occupies their land, declares cast sensations week. That sense. 1600s and it doesn't sound like the America I learned about in Texas. Yeah, no, and again, like they they do. This becomes because some ******** from the Ustashi told them 70 years ago. Well I'm glad that our honor of captive nations is the honor of the captive nations of of racists in particular. That's good. It's it's it's it's all it's also fun because if you look at the declarations of this, the only states that are like ever mentioned are states that can be like somehow vaguely tied to communism. So like yeah you know they'll talk about like we need to get these guys had a ******* a hard on for Rhodesia ohh yeah yeah and even Biden Biden released like his statement last year. It talks about like talks like Nicaragua talks about like Cuba it. Literally no mention whatsoever of Saudi Arabia, which again in in in in my lifetime has invaded what? At least two, possibly three countries on top of just being Saudi Arabia? Saudi Arabia? That that doesn't sound like the country that Joe Biden would fist bump. Come on. So did the ABN starts working now imagine Joe Biden fist bumping and Ustashi militant. That's that's good. Yeah, Reagan got pretty close like Reagan. Reagan does get close. Like Reagan did get quote close. I don't know. Biden's a 5050 on that ****. The only thing he's consistently good on is hating the British, which as you respect, I do respect that about this. So the the ABN starts talking with Shanghai Shek through a bunch of contacts and they they they help train Taiwan secret police and they also help set up Radio Free Asia which is incredibly fun. Not contact between the ABA and the Taiwanese government leads to a 1966 beating of check checks Asian peoples Anti Communist League and Seoul, South Korea with representatives of sort of the the whole global anti communist movement comes together to do something and 170 representatives from 60 nations show up. And what's interesting about this? First Christ, like what's the interesting thing here is this isn't all fascists. The the very first meeting where they're trying to figure out what is going to happen, who's going to be in this? There's like there are like Social Democrats who show up to this. There are like, yeah, sure. Regular conservatives and all of these people immediately get run out there. There's there's this group called the Assembly of Captive European nations who like, they're not like great people, but they also like didn't literally well, actually can't verify, they didn't literally do the Holocaust. But they aren't literally the leaders of the ustashi and they try to become like not literally running a group so bad that the US was occasionally like, ohh guys yeah like might need to pump them brakes the, the the the bar for anti communism is. Like like the the the the bar of like how bad you have to be for the anti Communist not to accept you is like yeah really really really low and like these people keep tripping over it and yeah you know these guys are like you know they're they they cannot I cannot emphasize enough that the dudes we're talking about are quite literally people that like Heinrich Himmler would read reports about what they were doing and need to have a stiff drink. Yeah like it's and and these guys you know so so the, the, the sort of moderates try to become the delegations of Eastern Europe and the ABN. Like runs them out because the abns already like tight with the Taiwanese and Taiwanese are, you know, one of the major sort of power blocks here. And the result of this is that you know from from the formative meeting of the World Anti Communist like this is just going to be a fascist organization. And you know, OK, so we've now met two of the three sort of main power blocks and we'll anti Communist League, right. There's the, there's the East Asian block centered around Taiwan and South Korea and they also they have support from like South Vietnam and like Singapore and the Philippines. But yeah, the the core there is sort of Taiwan and South Korea. There's there's the ABN fascists in Europe who are again the usasi and the Iron Guard and like there are people and now it's time to meet group #3. This is the Latin American Anti Communist Confederation or Cal. Cowl is originally a front group for a group called Los Tecos who are a fascist death squad from the Autonomous University of Guadalajara. Ohhh Mexican fascists. Oh yeah these guys are great. So so the the the the modern iteration of Techos was founded by a guy named Carlos Questra Gallardo who is a Mexican Nazi who was doing something in Berlin. Jewel were to we don't know what. There are various rumors, some of them including him like being part of of the of the group who like. The sides and the final solution, like, we don't know, there's rumors he was Hitler Secretary. Like, it's very unclear. She's doing something to support the Nazis. He's, you know, woke Hitler hiring, hiring people from all backgrounds. Yeah. Yeah. Well look, if if these guys stand and integration focused King. Yeah, yeah. All you have to do is be like so unfathomably anti-Semitic that, like even the other anti Semites eventually are like, you guys are too much. You can't say this out loud. Like. And so he he survives the war, and he goes back to Mexico to help help establish this, like, network of, like, Fascist Mexican priests who hide people from, like, the Iron Guard and other, like, Fascist collaborators. And these guys are like, they're like, yeah, these amazingly antisemitic. Yeah. There's like the liberation theology priests and then there's who they start killing. Yeah. Yeah. And these guys are like, they're convinced that the UN as a Jewish conspiracy. They like, they rave constantly about Marxist the Zionists and the Freemasons. And they also think that Vatican 2 with the church. Acts like a bit to the left is a good enough reason to just literally start killing Catholic priests, even though again, all of these people are Catholics. A bit to the left, all they did was change the ******* liturgy to be an English slightly or not English, not Latin. Yeah, yeah, it was like, this is this is all these people just go like, but there's an entire group like this. There's a lot of like Francois to like sort of go ape. Like just like. Yeah, just lose their minds. One of my favorite things about Catholicism is when you get like these Vatican 2 conspiracies where the church is literally like, well, our religions dying because nobody understands what the **** is going on in these in these in in services and stuff. Perhaps we could slightly modernize it so that people can understand what's being said. These guys think the Pope is Jewish. They literally think this. It is classic Jewish person. The Pope, yeah, it's like this whole thing. And and so the techs are like they're death squad. They they kill people, they kill students and the the league comes to them and are like, hey you guys are at times you guys are squads like go find other anti communist squads in Latin America and recruit them so we can talk to them. And video like these guys are literally their football talent scouts, but for death squads. Well, that's good. I mean, look, you know how I feel about death squads, Chris. If you're not getting the good, like somewhere out there is the LeBron James of killing a lot of people and pushing their bodies into a crudely dug pit. And if you don't find them, you know another death squad's going to get him and then you're not going to win the Sophie, what is the basketball award for? Good at basketball MVP? Yeah, you're not going to win the MVP. So. Yeah, look, you got it. Well, the other thing again is this is very important, right? Because it's so proud of himself. You don't in this summer, he's giving you so cool. Thank you, Sophie. It's about time you took an interest in one of my hobbies. I'm learning it's a real Heisman Trophy day for the Death Squad, people. No. OK, I'm gonna turn this to a baseball metaphor, which is that, OK, so the other thing that's happening here, right, is that you have you have to build up your roster, right? And you have to have to have to build up. You have to build up your sort of like your your minor league system. You have to do this so you can train other death squads. And these guys are about to become the ******* 90s Mariners of building up death squads they have, they have a bullpen so deep they can ******* like they they they can they can kick out literal Hall of Fame power hitters because they don't need more hitting. They have so many death squads and who's the Wade Boggs? Death squads in this. By which I mean, who is drinking 70 beers on a flight from, I don't know, Stockholm to Smolensk. Ohh, what is this guy named Jomo? I can't remember his last name. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That guy hilariously kind of isn't going to come up. And there's a lot of people who did a lot of assassinations were in The Who are in the league we're not going to talk about because they're like just D listers. Yes, there's so many. So the thing about the AL is that. They they're very quietly one of the most important organizations in the history of of the Latin American Cold War. And almost nobody's ever heard of them, but one of the things that they do is in 1973. So these these meetings, right, you get a bunch of death squads showing up to it and you get a bunch of countries like sending their intelligence services to these meetings to go like talk about with other countries and like right wing anti communist intelligence services. And in one of these meetings in 1973, the dictatorships of Brazil and Paraguay agreed to exchange information and sort of like coordinate security measures to the civil. Now Paraguay at this point is ruled by Alfredo Stroessner, who is one of the. They weren't communists's biggest supporters. The man like this guy like personally hosts several world Anti Communist League conferences. He also. Like he he he sold 8 year olds into sex slavery. He I like the worst thing that he does is he does this, this genocide against the existence of shape population. I'm going to read from the Washington Post, 1977 and by the way, when I read this thing you have to understand this is, this is from 1977. There were like 20 more years of the genocide that are going to happen after this. Quote 50% of the Achp population living in Paraguay since in 1968 have since disappeared. Wow. Yeah. That's pretty bad. Yeah. And you know, where did they go? Well, OK. They got raped, tortured and murdered by settlers who were doing a genocide and to take their land. They were like, there are these hunters whose job is literally to go out and kidnap ache people and, like, force them to live on these, like, reservations, quote, UN quote, on their farms. Like they're doing slave raids or selling children. They're forcing people. Like, somebody should stop that. Somebody should you ever does like this, this goes on. This goes on for the like the entire 30 years of like the Strasser, tater ship. OK, and now 1973, Strasser starts coordinating his police depression with the Brazilian dictatorship to the AL. The next year the CEO's Coordinating Council meets Rio de Janeiro. The Coordinating Council there's representatives has representatives from Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, El Salvador, Guatemala, Mexico, Paraguay, Uruguay and also a bunch of Cuban exiles. OK, so you know what? What? What are they doing there? This is from the book predatory states. The purpose of the meeting was to receive information and to exchange experiences concerning Communists and Pro communists in order to adapt methods that could be applied throughout the continents. He was important because one of the main resolutions sought to establish system to exchange confidential information among member nations. Now, people who know you're sort of like Cold War Latin American history are starting to perk up right now because if you studied like, this stuff, that list sounds really familiar. And it should be, uh, there's a couple of allies down into the list, but that is the those are the countries that are involved in Operation Condor. And that meeting of of the Wellington Communist League Latin American affiliate, the CL, was one of the first steps towards setting up the Condor system. The next year there there's like a, I guess you called a more official meeting, but there's a meeting of intelligence services from Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Paraguay and Uruguay to sort of expand cooperation further and you know the this turns into Condor. So, all right, what, what what is Operation Condor? The last two quotes that I sort of pulled are from this book called called Predatory states, Operation Condor and Covert War in Latin America. It's it's a very good book. I recommend people read it. It was it was written by a Long Island University political science professor named Jay Practice Mcsherry. And I'm, I'm, I'm good. Like. Use the intro that she uses to this, which is describing what happened to a guy named Martin Almada who's the guy who writes the forward to the book. Just like to give you a sense of like what this stuff actually looks like. In 1974, marginal Mata was dragged out of his house in Paraguay in the middle of the night by our friend Alfredo Stroessner, after which she was tortured for 30 days for quote, intellectual terrorism and intellectual terrorism. Well, so they bring him in and trying to figure out what he did, right. And the only thing this guy did was he was like. A leader in a teacher's union and he was like using the teaching methods of public diary. And so for this they they torture him. They forced his wife to listen to his screams over the phone for 10 days, and then they told her that he'd been killed, at which point his wife dies from a heart attack. Oh, and yeah, I like that. No, that story. Yeah. And that story at all. And the other thing is actually about. OK. So in some sense, right, like this is just, this is a thing that military dictatorships do. But those wacky military dictatorships all OK, yeah, yeah. But but, you know, like, normally when you get kidnapped by a dictatorship, right, there's a bunch of soldiers and, like, Spooks from your country, right. When this guy's always been my experience when I've been kidnapped by a military dictatorship. So, yeah, yeah, it's it's one. It's one, you know, it's the cash in one country. But but when this guy gets kidnapped, there's military attaches from Argentina, from Brazil, from Bolivia, from Chile and from Uruguay. And eventually Amanda gets released from prison. After like this giant hunger strike, and there's huge and Amnesty International campaign he serves trying to figure out what the **** happened to him. And it turns out that Martin, Amanda and his wife have become very early victims of Operation Condor. Oh, they're ground Trail Blazers. Yeah, and do you know who else were victims of Operation Condor? No one's products and services that support this podcast exactly zero of those, though they almost certainly all support this. That's who supports our podcast. Meant if if only the if only they used Ashley had been the target of Operation Condor. Ah, we would all live in a better world. No, no, but instead, they're they're they're big into the podcast game and. You know there are major backers of the island where? Will let you hunt children for uh, for for sport and for food. Yeah, and for food. It's unethical just to hunt kids for trophies, you know? Gotta cook them. Hmm. Brisket. Ohh God, the the one was on. Sophie, that's what the ad. That's the. I'm just reading the ad as it was sent to us by the and the Ustashi people. OK? Is the promo code hmm with how many M's? Hmm, good. That's at least nine M's, yeah? OK, here's the ads. Mint Mobile offers premium wireless starting at just 15 bucks a month. And now for the plot twist. Nope, there isn't one. Mint Mobile just has premium wireless from 15 bucks a month. There's no trapping you into a two year contract. You're opening the bill to find all these nuts fees. There's no luring you in with free subscriptions or streaming services that you'll forget to cancel and then be charged full price for none of that. For anyone who hates their phone Bill, Mint Mobile offers premium wireless for just $15.00 a month. Mint Mobile will give you the best rate whether you're buying. Or for a family. And it meant family start at 2 lines. All plans come with unlimited talk and text, plus high speed data delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. You can use your own phone with any mint mobile plan and keep your same phone number along with all your existing contacts. Just switch to Mint mobile and get premium wireless service starting at 15 bucks a month. Get premium wireless service from just $15.00 a month, and no one expected plot twists at That's Seriously, you'll make your wallet. Very happy at Mint Mobilcom behind. Now a word from our sponsor that our help. If you're having trouble stuck in your own head, focusing on problems dealing with depression, or just, you know can't seem to get yourself out of a rut, you may want to try therapy. And better help makes it very easy to get therapy that works with your lifestyle and your schedule. A therapist can help you become a better problem solver, which can make it easier to accomplish your goals, no matter how big or small they happen to be. So if you're thinking of giving therapy. Try better help is a great option. It's convenient, accessible, affordable, and it is entirely online. You can get matched with a therapist after filling out a brief survey, and if the therapist that you get matched with doesn't wind up working out, you can switch therapists at any time when you want to be a better problem solver therapy can get you there. Visit behind today to get 10% off your first month. That's better Betterhelp com behind this fall on revisionist history. Is there anything that we haven't talked about or or I should have asked you or you'd like to add that seems relevant? You should have asked me why I'm missing fingers on my left hand. A story about sacrifice. I think his suffering drove him to try to alleviate suffering. And the shocking discovery I made where I faced the consequences of writing a book I thought would help people, isn't that funny? It's not funny at all. It's depressing. Very depressing. Revisionist history is back with more. Listen to revisionist history on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. I've never seen less enthusiasm for a great idea in my life. Ohh boy, we're back. No, I'm not going to Robert. No, no segue. I'm immediately just going to read a description of how condo do that voice again. That was uncomfortable. Please continue. No, no, no. Sophie. No, Sophie. Sophie hated it. Hi. Hi. Hello. How are you? Good. Yes. How's it going? Great. Chris, over, please. The Condor system consisted of three levels. The first was mutual cooperation among military intelligence services to coordinate political surveillance of targeted dissidents and exchange intelligence information. The second was covert action, a form of offensive unconventional warfare in which the role of the predator remains concealed. Multinational Condor squadrons carried out covert cross-border operations to detain, disappear exiles and transfer them to their countries of origin, where most discipline, or permanently through their most secret level was condors assassination. Ability known as phase three. Under phase three special teams of assassins. Remember countries were formed to travel worldwide to eliminate subversive enemies. Phase three was aimed at political leaders especially feared for their potential to mobilize world depending or organized broad opposition to the military states. So what? What Condor is right is a bunch of countries. It's Chile, Paraguay, Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Ecuador and later Peru working together to form just like multinational death squads and using them to like. They have these squads and kidnapping teams and they use them to target like internal enemies and subversives who it turns out it's just literally anyone doesn't support the government. I'm going to read a quote from an operative of Dina, which is Pinochet, National Intelligence Directorate, which is like, they're like the secret police, but also the CIA. Oh, good. They're they're great. And by great I mean they sound like cool guys. Yeah. One team to operative explain Dina Strategy as follows. First the aim was to stop terrorism. Then possible extremists were targeted, and later though, she might be converted into extremists. Similar language is used in 1977 by Argentine General EBITDAR Co Saint Jean when he said first we kill all the subversives, then we kill all their collaborators, then they're sympathizers, then all those who remain indifferent. Ah. Maybe take notes on that. People who remain indifferent. Yeah, kill you too. Like, unless you are an active supporter of the regime. And also you never **** anyone off, ever. Somehow, miraculously, they're gonna kill you too. It's great. And and so this this works on 2 levels. On the one side, there's like there's these internal purges, right, which which are aided by intelligence from other Condor countries. So, for example, in 1976, the Argentinian army like stages a coup and takes control of the country and they start what's known as The Dirty War, in which the government. Years, 30,000 people who become known as desaparecidos. One of the fun tactics of the Argentinian army and their desk squads was to keep pregnant women alive just long enough to force them to have their babies and then kill them and steal the babies. Which, OK, that doesn't sound like good behavior. Sure, yeah. And and, you know, OK, all of these guys are right wing Catholics and I'm not even going to bother spelling out the comparisons of 4th versus in the US. I I will leave that metaphor as an exercise for the listener. And these killings were done. Like part, partly they're done directly by the state, and partly they're done by state supported death squads. In Argentina, that death squad is called the Argentine Anticommunist Alliance, or AAA. Here's mcsherry. Ohh that it is the same AAA that helps me when I need my car to yes, you know, I I I I genuinely cancel I I I I think. I think the quote I'm about to read their they're making a triple-A joke, but I'm not entirely sure I'm gonna say yes just based on the long lines that you have to stand in that place. I I buy it in in. In November 1973, the AAA detonated a bomb in the car of Senator Kip Alato. You're gorian. That's it. That doesn't gnarly name of this the Union Civica radical, which is hilariously a Moderate Party. The first claim, Terry, it's first claim terrorist attacked. The senator was severely wounded. He was the victim of another bomb in 1975 and was tortured and interrogated by army officers in that year. They told him, quote, you want to know about the AAA? Well, were the AAA we put the bomb in your car? Oh well, that's nice of them to say so yeah. It's also worth noting so the the the AAA they they get kind of absorbed into the Argentinian military but they kind of still operate under under this. It's I don't know they're they're they're they they after the military coup in 76 they're more inside the state than they are outside of it but they also host the 1980 meeting of the CL and Buenos Aires after they were sort of 70 absorbed. They're also heavily involved in the anti Communist League and we're going to come back to the 1980 meeting because it also was very important but that that only for the next episode for now we should talk about. Like how Condor actually worked. A bit more, Mcsherry describes it as as a parastatal organization in that it's technically inside or tied to the state, but it operates completely in secret. And it it it has, it has, it has, you know, it has a unified command structure that involves operatives from, you know, intelligence services from the military. There's cops, there's right wing civilians and paramilitaries. But again, like the secrecy of this means that even other parts of the military don't know that they exist. As we've seen, the AAA Condor makes use of paramilitary sometimes, like folding them directly in the chain of command. Sometimes they just like con, basically do contract killings out to other like fascist probabilities. Umm. And the the their whole command structure remains entirely unregistered. It is, by its very nature, outside of the sort of bounds the state bureaucracy. Everything is unmarked, untagged secret or Black Ops. It's officers are commissioned literally as special agents. It operates as a sort of like a secret parallel state alongside the official state, and I want to pause here for a second. To to think about the extent to which American and British pop culture is entirely centered around valorizing this stuff, like pop culture, is completely obsessed with secret agents we have. There's 25 bond movies there. There are five different Call of Duty Black Ops games, right? Like the the last Black Ops game is literally you working for Ronald Reagan to do stuff for the CIA. And but it's like, OK, if you think about what this stuff is, right? All of this Black Ops stuff, it's it's this, you know, you look, you look, you look at the sort of purest expression of it in Latin America. It's just that it's literally just this tyrannical parallel state whose job it is to kill subversives. And it's the discord machine. And it's like, this is our entire pop culture is about making everyone think the Death squad machine is cool. Well, but the death squad machine is drunk all the time and that's pretty neat. Yeah, but here's the thing. I I went, I went to university and I therefore I I therefore know that you can be drunk all the time without being a death squad. No, we we had very different college experiences. That's a story for another day, am I right? I mean immediately we are on our like third college paramilitary in this episode. So that's right, that's right, just like how? Don't do it, John. Sportsman, you were doing so well. We were so proud of you. 4 touchback. First down. 3 pointer ohh no. Nailed it. Nailed it. Uh-huh. So, all right, we, we now have a picture, we we have, we have a incredibly lackluster picture of the nature of basketball. We have a better picture of the internal structure of Condor. But The thing is condos, multinational operation and a huge part of is doing what the modern CA would call it extraordinary renditions. And this means that they're like kidnapping dissidents who, for example, fled from Chile to Paraguay and then you bring them back to Chile, you tortured, execute them. And as this program, you know goes on, they start, they start assassinating people like all over the world. And these people, you know, not just getting murdered, right, they're getting horribly tortured. The bodies that people find are like, heavily mutilated. They're stab wounds. They have like burns. The Argentinian classic is dropping people both dead and alive, out of helicopters. And, well, at least they're not discriminating between dead or alive. That's true. Everybody gets dropped out of a helicopter. That's quality, yeah. And, you know, and the other thing is they're not just killing like completely random, like nobody or like, you know, incredibly minor activist. They're killing people who are like. Very high profile and very famous. Like in 1976 they killed the former President of Bolivia, Juan Jose Torres in Buenos Aires. And you know, one of the favorite tactics that they use for sort of getting away with this stuff is they'll kill a bunch of people and then blame blame it on the left murdering each other. But like, that's not actually enough to cover up. We killed the President of Bolivia. Well, we killed the President of Italy too, but nobody has a problem with that. We're going to, we will, we will get to that. Actually, we I I will mention it and then pointedly not explain it next episode. That's good. That's good. Assassination of the ******* Prime Minister of Italy. Just listen to Alex Jones show the next time. Steve. Yeah. Nick is back on because he's the one who should be fair, to be fair, all right? There were a lot of people who were involved in the killing. The Prime Minister. We cannot give Steve Pechenik the whole credit from the team was involved. It's not just magic and Vicky, Tom Cruise, someone who was, who was else on the team. Sophie, are you trying to make a Magic Johnson Larry Bird reference right now? That's the one, Larry Bird. Lawrence Byrd, to be fair, I'm OK with you ******* up his name. Magic Johnson and Larry Flint. Who again? Heroes, very OK with you ******* up his name. Go for it. Whatever you want. Good. All right. Back to the game. So, OK, you know, it is incredible. Like, it it is so obvious that, like, people that, like, there's something going on here that's assassinating people that, like, even, like, even journalists are just starting to write articles that are like, yeah, there's something going on here. And so, Robert, you might be asking yourself, what is the United States, the champion of democracy and human rights and the leader of the free world doing about a bunch of death squads murdering anyone who doesn't actively support a military dictatorship? And the answer is, uh, sometimes they they write a few strongly worded letters. They they they do this like twice. They write a few strongly worded letters. Mostly they do nothing. And then the other part of the time, they're actively helping them do it. So to to get a sense of like the level of impunity that Condor had from the US government, the political counselor of of the US Embassy in Ecuador and sorry and Uruguay, you know, did the right thing for once. And he, he, he, he and a. So basically they figure out that Brazilian labour leader is about to be like kidnapped and assassinated by these guys and he helps this guy escape. And in retaliation, a bunch of dudes and ski masks. I grabbed him off the street and broke every vertebrae in his neck and back. And again, this guy works for the US embassy. And they broke every single vertebrae in his neck and upper back, and the US does nothing. In in 19. Yeah. What would you expect us to do? You know, you know, you know, OK, so like every once in awhile you'll do one of the things that happens with the red Contra, right, is that they they like kind of they accidentally get a DEA agent killed. And after that, the US just goes like absolute *** ****. Like, this is like, OK, but this guy is an embassy guy. You'd think that, like, if you kill, if you like like almost kill a guy from your embassy, like something would happen. Like, no, no, it doesn't happen at all. Absolutely not. Yeah. And and and, you know, Speaking of government doing nothing in in 1976. Agents of the Chilean National Intelligence Directorate, working with a right wing, Cuban exiles from the civil car bomb and man named Orlando Letelier in Washington DC. Lydia had been the socialist Foreign minister under Allende, and he's just like, implacable foe of Pinochet. And the Chileans like, what does kill him? And so, you know, they they do it right? They just, they they they kill him in like it literally in Washington DC, with a car bomb. And the guy who does it is a an American Dina operative named Michael Townley. And he serves five years in prison and then gets FBI witness protection. So there there are. There are an enormous number of people in this country who have served more time in prison for literally having weed than this guy is serving for doing a car bomb assassination in Washington DC. Yeah, that seems, yeah. Yeah, it's it's it's it's great. And and this this is like during the Carter vibration to it. Nothing happens. Nothing. I think it's the Carter, I'm pretty sure. Yeah, 76, yeah. And the reason answer don't they don't do anything is twofold. One is that the CIA is systematically lying Underoath to Congress about whether it like what it do about Condor. And the other reason is that the US is actively helping them there. There's your channels. This one is that there's good evidence that the CIA actively helped the Chilean government kidnap and murder multiple American citizens. But it's actually much worse than that because so Condor as as a sort of network is running off of this encrypted American telecommunication network. And an equipment that is based in the Panama Canal Zone now. Robert, uh, I'm going to ask you, what was the US government running in the Panama Canal zone in the 1970s? They were just helping boats, you know? They love boats. We we're big boat people, America, and we like to keep them moving. Yeah. What, what, what, what was the other thing we were running there? Uh, just boats. Just boats. Boats, yeah, just boats. There's a there's a guy named Manuel Noriega, who was famous because he was good at boats. Yeah, and we we all, we all, we also cocaine. Just boats, we also have a very famous boating school there called the School of the America at Transamerica. Learn how to boat if you want to learn how to be on a boat school of this because it's the school of how to like take your boat across the Americas. That's why they call it the school of the Americas. All of the Americas is for boats. Yeah, so. So, yeah, that's right, baby. It's a school, the Americas. We're doing the school, the Americas again. And it turns out that I'm just going to read this from predatory states. As one military graduate of the School of Americas put it, the school was always a friend for other special operations, covert operations. So they're using the school of the Americas as cover to run a covert assassination network that's going to kill, like, an incredible number of people, including multiple U.S. citizens, some of whom were killed on American soil. It's great. Yeah, that's like. I don't know what that's like. Something basketball. You know and and that that's the that's where that's just where almost down from Sophie on that one on that terrible basketball metaphor that's just that's we're gonna leave it today with the world Anti Communist League having helped spawn and carry out Operation Condor. Alongside their friends, the CIA, well, if your friend is the CIA you can find. The rest of our shows. On the Internet, I Quizone media. You know what? Actually, here's a little we do a little bit of house cleaning here because folks have been yelling about this on a couple of different things. Go for it is a so people are always like, hey, there's some weird edit thing, or there's some clip, or something is wrong here and I I have to tell you all right now, none of that has to do with us. It has to do with like, whatever ******* weird *** app you're using. And usually, and usually, it's Spotify. It's usually Spotify, or it's ******* podcast Republic or like pod ****** or whatever. *** **** bespoke *** pod app you ************* use. Just ******* use an RSS feed anyway. Whatever. People are weird. I don't know what to tell them, but there's really nothing. Nothing particularly that that we can do like I can give you. Here's how podcasts work. Can I give some advice? Yes. If you notice that your thing is being funky on Spotify, delete it. Refresh your feed, redownload it if the episode sounds ****** ** instead of hopping online. And assuming that it's it's us, hop onto your phone, delete it, redownload it, and it'll probably be fine. Because here's the thing. This show gets downloaded like 10 million times a month on like 1000 different *** **** apps and like that just introduces a lot of different ways for things to get all ***** in weird ways. And we we we do our best with quality control, but we have no control over like, podcasts. Come guzzler or whatever app you like to use. So you know. Try redownloading the show before you yell at Sophie on the Internet about how the the pod pod Amy app that was ****** in pod that I mixed together like it is. It isn't working right. OK, it's it's fine. I do love it when people are like, hey, do you know why your podcasts are ****** **? And then we'll just like name some app I've never heard of. It's like, I don't know, maybe it's because you're using some weird *** **** app I've never heard up to download a ******* podcast. What do you want from us? We can't. We can't we? We don't even know how many apps are out there people are using the download, our ******* shows and everyone who's like my audio skipping. Yeah, that's Spotify. You can't see it, but I'm smiling on the outside while dying on the inside like a winner. Speaking of winners, Chris, where can people follow you? Remind me at it mean Chr 3 on Twitter. Yeah, that's it. Don't look for me anywhere else. You won't find me. Yeah, and look for me behind you whenever you feel afraid, because that's where I'll be stealing your wallet. I'm ending it on that. Behind the ******** is a production of cool zone media. For more from cool Zone Media visit our website or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, I'm Erica Kelly from the podcast Southern Fried True crime and if you want to go from podcast fan to podcast host, do what I did and check out spreaker from iheart. I was working in accounting and hating it then after just 18 months of podcasting. 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