There’s a reason the History Channel has produced hundreds of documentaries about Hitler but only a few about Dwight D. Eisenhower. Bad guys (and gals) are eternally fascinating. Behind the Bastards dives in past the Cliffs Notes of the worst humans in history and exposes the bizarre realities of their lives. Listeners will learn about the young adult novels that helped Hitler form his monstrous ideology, the founder of Blackwater’s insane quest to build his own Air Force, the bizarre lives of the sons and daughters of dictators and Saddam Hussein’s side career as a trashy romance novelist.
Tue, 22 Oct 2019 10:00
Part One: The Bastard Who Invented Homeopathy
Hello, I'm Erica Kelly from the podcast Southern Fried True crime, and if you want to go from podcast fan to podcast host, do what I did and check out spreaker from iheart. I was working in accounting and hating it. Then after just 18 months of podcasting with Spreaker, I was able to quit my day job. Follow your podcasting dreams, let's break or handle the hosting, creation, distribution, and monetization of your podcast. Go to spreaker.com. That's spreaker.com. Wanna say I don't know less? Listen to stuff you should know more. Join host Josh and Chuck on the podcast packed with fascinating discussions about science, history, pop culture and more episodes. Dive into topics like was the lost, city of Atlantis Real? And how does pizza work? Say goodbye to I don't know. Because after listening to stuff you should know you will listen to stuff you should know on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey there, it's Ebony Monet, your co-host for the San Diego Zoo's Amazing Wildlife podcast. In this special episode, we're speaking with Doctor Jane Goodall about the fascinating journey that led to her impactful behavioral discoveries on chimpanzees. It wasn't until one of the chimpanzees began to lose his fear of me, but I began to really make discoveries that actually shook the scientific world. Listen to amazing wildlife on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. What's absent my machetes. I'm Robert Evans, host of behind the ******** the podcast where we talk about the worst people in all of history. And today is is a very sad day because we've been kicked out of our regular recording studio. By by an unnamed person. And we forgot to get the machete out. And I am very sad as is, Sophie. As is my guest today, Mr Billy Wayne Davis. Hello. I'm. It's not it's in the building. So we're in the building. It's not like it's we left it at home, which would be like, that's a bummer. That would be tragic. That's why that's the dedicated podcast machete. That makes sense. And then I you guys, Robert gave me the best gift. It's just it's a tactical. Can I save the brand? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Gerber. I was very excited. About that, which is a Portland, USA made knife. It just now. Describe the thing I've already forgot. Exactly. Yeah, it's a. It's designed as a survival knife. So the hilt is made out of a glass composite, which the purpose of that is so that if you're in a in a vehicle that crashes or in an airplane that's crashed, it was originally designed for pilots. You can cut your way out of the plane without electrocuting yourself if you hit a live wire. And there's also a big glass breaking thing on the hilt. It's a, it's a solid knife. It just and it feels good in the hand, like a lot of these. Crimes like this are. They're not. Yeah. There's a lot of different kinds of knives, and that's a metal stabbing knife, which is a special kind of knife. Yeah. Is a knife that's meant for going into what is essentially other knives. It's got that thing that a good knife has where you're like, I don't want someone to come at me now. And what I what I like about that is because I I don't want to give someone a nice knife and not give them a reason to use it. So once we get the machete out of the room, I have something else that I found while I was up and I found a VHS copy of. Basic Instinct by Paul Verhoeven. The original directors cut Ohh wow with a a fake signature by Paul Verhoven. Inside the cover of the the VHS tape. I found it by a trash pile. He sincerely wrote that. He sincerely wrote that. He really did. And just so people know this, this VHS copy is the widescreen letterbox edition that's critical and includes the theatrical trailer. Too hot to be shown in movie houses and I figured what we do once we get to show Tyrion collection before the Criterion collection it really is. See? See it the way it was meant to be. On a VHS tape VHS that's been hanging out near a domain on a TV that's got a in a in a box. Still smells a little bit like trash, but it's in incredible shape. Really incredible shape considering what it is. And did you fly from with it? Yes, I flew. I flew with it because I knew that this was the only acceptable thing for us to use in a game of tennis. Now Billy, I don't know how to play tennis, but I know it involves 2 people with stick shaped things batting an object in between them. So I figured I'd use the machete. You'd use the knife and we'd have us a game of tennis over this recording. Yeah, this is like a white trash version of yes, Sophie can be the UMP. Nope, that's not what it's called. But what is it called in tennis? I think an empire. Yes. I don't know official. I don't think UMP is it. Sophie's going to look up what it's actually called. Is it tennis is played with a copy of Basic Instinct in 29. There's like a judge involved, right line judge. I don't know. I'm OK with all this. I don't know about tennis empire **** but it'll be fun to hit now. There's gonna be a lot of plastic shards, and we don't have eye protection. Maybe it's an official. I have. I've seen it in three different they serve as the. Oh no. Oh no. I would like the title of Chief umpire, which is apparently a thing. OK, so she's going to be the chief umpire. Cool. Billy Wayne will be taking on the role of his Roger Federer. Tennis guy. Yeah. Nailed it. Good. You did good. And I will be taking on the role of Williams. Serena Williams. That's nailed it. That's a big shoes to fill. Those are the only tennis players I can name. And I was not sure about Federer. I thought there was a 50% chance. You always go with Agassi, but he hasn't played Andre Agassi. You're right. That's a name, then. Yeah, he's bald. He kind of went with it. Umm, what's the really angry dudes name? John McEnroe. John McEnroe. He's pretty funny, too. Don't know any of these people. What I do know is that we're going to have a lot of fun once we get our machete. Yeah, I mean, I'm just going to hold the knife the whole show now, Billy Wayne, because you're here as the guest. I think everyone can know what that means. And it means that we're going to talk about a fake doctor. **** yeah. Or in this case, a lot of fake doctors. A lot of them. Oh yeah, yeah. See, today, Billy Wayne, we're not just talking about a fake doctor. Our subject this week might well be the king of all fake doctors. Do you know the name? Samuel hanman? No, I'm excited about. Well, he is the man who invented homeopathy. OK, yeah, that's where we're going. He's largely responsible for the birth of what's called alternative medicine. And surprisingly, I'm not sure he qualifies as a *******. So we're going to get into him part one and then Part 2. We will definitely be talking about some ********. Would he be? Can I predict he might be a ******* because he opened a certain door for other? *******. Yeah. Yeah. I think he meant well. That's like. Yeah, it's like manslaughter of ********. Hmm. Apathy. OK. Yeah, that's where we're going. He's largely responsible for the birth of what's called alternative medicine. And surprisingly, I'm not sure he qualifies as a *******. So we're going to get into him part one and then Part 2. We will definitely be talking about some ********. Would he be? Can I predict he might be a ******* because he opened a certain door through liquor store? Medicine where you can say maybe he just wanted to make the process of buying liquor more convenient, but as a result, a lot of people rammed pedestrians. They had to fix a lot of fences because of that, man, were a lot of problems got yes. OK, I got you. I got you. Yeah, he's the. No. You put a piece of tape over the straw. Yeah, exactly. Then it's not an open container. We fixed it. People may not know that, but you can buy margaritas in your car if there's tape over the strong, and daiquiris are the the big one in Louisiana. Ohh God, just a 32 ounce Styrofoam cup full of pure grain alcohol, pure grain alcohol, and a slushy. And then they hand it to you with tape over it in the right. Don't don't move that tape. Don't do what you're going to do. I think it has always been my dream. I don't think I'll ever move back to the South because I hate the weather. But if I did, I would love to operate a combination gun store, drive through liquor store and I mean, yeah, why not just push it, go all the way and you're like, well, if you buy 2 daiquiris, you get a gun. And if you buy 2 guns, you get 4 dackers, 4 dackers one for you kid. You get 2 and then your wife gets one. You got one left up. And ideally, we also open a pharmacy. So it's like a pill mill, drive through liquor shop, gun store. I mean, that's one of like, as my grandpa was. On his way out, he said we were talking one time and he was like, if I had to do it over again, pharmacy, that's what you own a pharmacy and I was like, that is a good point, Grandpa. That's a that's solid grandfather that is. That's a good point. I'm too late for me, but. One day, Billy Wayne, one day you'll start that pharmacy, pharmacy. So I guess we should get into the story now. Christian Friedrich Samuel Hanman was born on April 10th, 1755 in the city of Maison, which I'm probably mispronouncing. One of his modern day followers says that it was quote so close to midnight that there is debate as to the date. His church apparently registered his birthday as the 11th, but he celebrated it on the 10th. This website, which is like a homeopathic fan site for Samuel. Onenotes as the story of his life unfolds. This is a pertinent fact to bear in mind because arguably it sets a pattern that continued throughout. I actually have no idea what they mean by this. But he's inconsistent that that. No, I think they're positive. I think they're saying that like, uh, the authorities said that, like, this is his birthday, but he, like, said it was a different day. He's like, I know better. I know exactly. I think that's what they're getting at. But it's very silly right now. You're born here is like, no, as I remember. Right. OK. You really ****** that up. I would celebrate both days. Oh yeah. I mean, I don't think people got presents back then. I think they just got cholera and your birthday **** yourself to death. Yeah. Classic. German 1700s birthday Samuel was a weak and sickly child. He was christened on the 13th of the month, like two days after his birth, out of the expectation that he would die soon, and so he needed a name before he went to Heaven or hell. I think babies went to hell at that point, but alas, Samuel grew stronger and gradually it became clear that he would in fact survive being a baby. Samuel was one year old when the seven-year war broke out, a slap fight between Prussia and Austria for Silesia, all of which is basically considered Germany to Americans. Today this warhead at disastrous impact on the porcelain and cloth trades, and since Samuel's dad made his living as a porcelain painter, the family finances took a real hit. He was educated at home, which was not particularly uncommon, or any kind of statement at the time. That homeopathic fangirl website I found on this notes that Samuel's father Christian quote sometimes locked his son up with a problem when he went to work, expecting him to have solved it or to have some insight into it by the time he got back. Now that's a. That's a frugal babysitter right there. Just give your kid a problem and lock him in a room. What's the answer? Hell, I don't know. Yeah, I heard a picture of it. Makes it seem like ours is like how you raise a genius, baby. No. Yeah. I found another depiction of this parenting practice and a 1900 biography of Samuel that does make it sound a lot shadier. Yeah, it sounds like. Yeah, it's like a hillbilly would be like, well, you got a TV, don't you? We're gonna go watch that, and we're gonna go. Yeah. Turn it up. Yeah. You hear noises. Turn it up. Put them in front of the shiny box. It'll be good. Handmann's father, before going to the factory, used frequently to lock his son in a room, close the shutters and give him a difficult sentence to ponder over of which he had to give an account on his father's return. This contributed to making the son an original thinker. I think that's what Trump does every morning with Twitter is he just gives us a difficult sentence, and all day we're like, what does that mean? What does that mean? Why did he capitalize the letters he cap? That doesn't make any sense. Yeah, he's just trying to raise us, like Samuel Huntman's father. Now, once he was older and the family fortunes had recovered somewhat, Samuel was allowed to go to the local elementary school. His teacher, Johann Muller, recognized him as a uniquely brilliant pupil. Alas for Samuel, his father pulled him out of school at age 15, reasoning that he'd spent more than enough time learning. And it was well past time for him to get a full time gig. In fairness to Christian, you were legally an adult at 14 in that part of the world at that time. So Samuel really got a whole extra year of childhood. Yeah, kind of luxury childhood there. So that's good for him. Yeah. Christian set his son up. A job at a grocery store in Leipzig. Samuel did the job for a while, but he grew tired of it quickly and was convinced that the world had something greater in store for him. So he ran away from home. Sorta. He actually just ran away from his dad and his job and had his mom hide him while he worked up the courage to confront his father about the fact that he wanted to go back to school. Where does she hide him? I don't know. It's not really specific about that. I'm guessing a closet just like in the house still? I think so. Or maybe. Yeah, they they had some money so she might have like rented him a room or something. Yeah, like his storage. It just says that his mom had a storage place. Yeah. What an intern like told the dad that he ran away? Yeah. I think it was an issue of the way it's I've I've read it is that like she hit him because she wasn't going to go to bat for her kid against her father because you don't do that. I understand that 1700s Germany, basically. Germany, essentially Germany. And but at the same time he didn't like he had to work up the courage to like tell his dad I don't want to work at a grocery store. I want to finish school and be an educated. Man, I understand now. Yeah, it was more of like neither of us want to get whacked by Dad yet because, you know. OK, yeah. Gotcha. Yeah. So eventually, Samuel did confront his father and he was apparently a successful in convincing him that he should be allowed to go to grammar school. She just said into a box and ring, she's like, just learn to take a punch and then you can tell him you're going to have to let your dad hit you. He's going to hit you. He's gonna hit you a lot. So just get used to just learn how to take that. You talked to dad, he's gonna throw a couple of punches. Just just to keep him at himself. He enjoys it. Mm-hmm. It's it's, you know, you get back, he gets back from work, he's been punched all day. He's gonna throw a couple of punch his lift. It's better than you think. Ohh. So yeah, Samuel went to grammar school. He said he'd science and languages, and he wrote a dissertation on the structure of the human hand. He was quite successful during this. And he earned himself admission into Leipzig University to pursue a medical degree. But his course of studies was exhausting, and he would later write that it convinced him young people should not be allowed to go to school. Quote from Samuel's mental exertion and study are unnatural occupations for young people whose bodily development is not yet complete, especially for those who are endowed with sensitive feelings. This nearly cost me my life during the period. From 15 to 20 years old. I can't, can't disagree. Pretty progressive thinking, man. Bored with that. I mean, that's just, yeah, he's like, yeah, 15 to 20, just throw him in the woods. We should, yeah. Have a big field for him. I kind of like that idea. I've always been a big advocate of, like, once kids get old enough to talk back, just driving into a field and leaving them there, I think they get feral. And then we'd have they were. They're smarter than we think, though. Yeah, you're right. It would be like a hog problem. And they just. The slide will happen way quicker than we want to think it would. Yeah, yeah. No, it's like the wild boars. Yeah, that's what would happen. They'd grow Tusk. You'd have to kill him with drones. Yeah, I guess there's no perfect solution to teenagers. No, no. You just watch them and hope they don't. Team up. Yeah. Hope they don't team up. The good thing is they'll throw each other under the bus because they're so *****. Yeah. Yeah, that is that's they're trying to **** the bus. It is weird to think like, oh, thank God, they're *****. Thanks God, they're too ***** to be smart. Yes, we have a problem with all that energy they got. Yeah, we'd have to be like, well, we do wars. Yeah, that's. We just do a war every couple years. It is. That was a nicer era in warfare back when, like, most of them were just like, we got to do something with all these ******* teenagers. Yeah. Give him give him guns. Put the dumbest ones in the front. And then let them walk towards each other. Let them walk towards each other until they're tired, until we got the best ones. The smart ones duck. At age 19 in 1774, a penniless Samuel Hanman left my son to go to Leipzig. He worked as a translator to make ends meet. Depending on which source you read, he was either incredibly good at this, a brilliant linguist and great demand, or he was completely mediocre and he barely succeeded in avoiding abject poverty. I found like 5 different variations of how this period of his life went. I don't know which is accurate, maybe none of them. One thing they all seem to agree on is that during his years studying theoretical medicine, which was the degree program. Jackie was on. He became disillusioned with the medical establishment, which is understandable. Of the medical establishment in 1774. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of leeches. A lot of leeches. A lot of poison. Yeah. Yeah. The pride. Cocaine. That's a real medicine, Billy, right. I have some friends that will agree with you. For what? Alc. Now, the Pro Homeopathy biography of Hanman I found is written by someone called Sheila. That's the only name she's given on the site. And she's a British homeopath whose website links back to a website about how autism isn't real. So just so we're aware of this particular source. Yeah. What is it? Autism. If it's not real, it's a bacterial infection. I don't know. There's a bunch of crazy theories about that. It's like the bleach people got you. I do feel like she's one of the bleach people. That makes sense. Yeah. No, that's the thing where I know better. Yeah, yeah. Quote from Sheila, the homeopath. He paid for his studies by teaching German and French and by translating Greek and English into German for better off students. Help came from an anonymous benefactor in Maison who paid for some of the lectures it is in Leipzig. But the seeds of Samuel's discontent with the medical profession of the time were sown because he was not satisfied with some of the lectures and attended them only selectively. He was also unhappy with the lack of practical facilities. So that's the positive homeopathy version of this. Is that he just he he he realizes that medicine at the time is flawed and he he doesn't like attending all of his lectures, which you could also write is just like him being a bad student that doesn't say sometimes it's hard to listen and stuff like that it is. And then to be justified with like, I just this you guys are wrong. I'm going to fix medicine. I mean, I will say even a stopped clock is right every couple of centuries, and in this case ignoring mainstream medical lectures. Was a was a good idea. Yeah. But at the same time, like, don't you have to learn what's wrong? But if you're learning what's wrong and they're telling you what's right, that might not be good either. I don't know. That's a weird. This is a weird story. Yeah. It's going to get confusing. Yeah. Morally, the second part is just going to be ******** all the way down. So, but first, we got to get this Muddy Waters and not the good kind of Muddy Waters. He just feels like I understand that feeling, I mean. In college because. There was a part of me, though, like, a lot of this feels like a scam. Yeah. Like, why do I have to take bowling? Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, I was like, and then the business side of my major, I mostly was communications. But the business side was, like, just prepping everyone to work at a corporation. And I was already like, oh, I don't want to do that. Yeah. And all my teachers are like, what do you mean? That's where the money. That's how you make money, but that's what you're here for. I'm going to make my money. Yeah. Like, I don't want people giving. Part of me, though, like, a lot of this feels like a scam. Yeah. Like, why do I have to take bowling? Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, I was like, and then the business side of my major mostly was communications. But the business side was, like, just prepping everyone to work at a corporation. And I was already like, oh, I don't want to do that. Yeah. And all my teachers are like, what do you mean? That's where the money. That's how you make money, but that's what you're here for. I'm gonna make my money. Yeah. Like, I don't want people giving me. I don't wanna have to depend on that. And you're making robots. Yeah. Yeah. It just made me. So I understand what he's thinking. We're like, Oh yeah. Sometimes is like if I was going to be a like, a scientist. This makes sense. Or a lawyer. But I learned more about business at The UPS Store than any of you ******* have taught me. I learned more about business hanging out with my friends who sold weed than I ever learned in in college, and more practical stuff about business, like how to replace the airbag in your cars steering wheel with a bag of marijuana. A good place, good place to hide it. That's a free tip for everybody out there still living in one of the states where it's illegal. Sylvia, are we allowed to give people tips on drug smuggling? Sophie is making a gesture that I cannot interpret. Do it. I'm just going to plug my ears. So she's just going to plug her ears. OK. OK. For you also hide drugs up your ****. Both work. Now back-to-back to Samuel, Hangman. So I just read kind of the the, the Pro Samuel Hanman as the the founder of of the Most valuable medical revelation in in the history of the world, that that's that angle on it. I found a very different account of this. In his life in an article written for the American Council on Science and Health A501C3 established in 1978. To promote evidence based science and medicine, here's what they say. Although he tried to earn money as a translator, making ends meet was very difficult for him. On the brink of starvation, he was introduced to an opulent Transylvanian Baron, Samuel Brockhall, the head of the Magdeburg Freemasons Lodge. Hanman was initiated into the Lodge in Hermannstadt, Transylvania in October 1777. He quickly came to esteem the mini itinerant teachers of mysteries who were indoctrinating the lodges in such matters as alchemy and Spiritism in Samuel Hunman his life and work. Richard Hale hinted at the depth of Hangman's involvement in the lodge. He advanced beyond vitalism in the naturalism of Schelling and Hegel to Spiritism, and for awhile lost his way in occultism in life and letters of Samuel Hanman. Thomas Bradford gave a much less guarded account of the time Hanman spent in the service of hair brockhall. It was in these quiet, scholarly days that Hanman acquired that extensive and diverse knowledge of ancient literature and of occult sciences, which he afterwards proved himself to be a master. So he learned magic. Yeah, he learns magic the homeopaths like to be like. Well, he just spent so much time in lectures that he realized what was wrong with the medical establishment. And then the other version of that is Nah, he went to work for a wizard and learned magic. Yeah, he went to like a secret society for powerful dudes who also believe in some ******** because they were. They were blessed with certain opportunities that other people weren't, instead of realizing that they thought they were ******* special and new magic and they like to dress up in costumes. Rituals are fun because they didn't have. There is a lot of books. Rituals are fun, like the ritual of batting, this copy of Basic Instinct. That's why you're supposed to find it. Magic. Magic it is. You know what else is magic, Billy Wayne? Hmm? Capitalism. Capitalism is like magic. It is magic like magic. Transmutes. A podcast that is free into money for me. It's good. It's good. See? Nobody can explain that. Nobody knows how that works. Products service? Mint Mobile offers premium wireless starting at just 15 bucks a month. And now for the plot twist. Nope, there isn't one. Mint Mobile just has premium wireless from 15 bucks a month. There's no trapping you into a two year contract. You're opening the bill to find all these nuts fees. There's no luring you in with free subscriptions or streaming services that you'll forget to cancel and then be charged full price for none of that. For anyone who hates their phone Bill, Mint Mobile offers premium wireless for just $15.00 a month. Mint Mobile will give you the best rate whether you're buying one or for a family and at Mint. Family start at 2 lines. All plans come with unlimited talk and text, plus high speed data delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. You can use your own phone with any mint mobile plan and keep your same phone number along with all your existing contacts. Just switch to Mint mobile and get premium wireless service starting at 15 bucks a month. Get premium wireless service from just $15.00 a month and no one expected plot twists at mintmobile.com/behind. That's mintmobile.com/behind. Seriously, you'll make your wallet very happy at Mint Mobile. From behind. So by now we imagine that you've seen the theories on Tik T.O.K. You maybe even heard the rumors from your friends and loved ones. But are any of the stories about government conspiracies and cover ups actually true? The answer is surprisingly or unsurprisingly, yes. For more than a decade, we here at stuff they don't want you to know have been seeking answers to these questions. Sometimes there are answers that people would rather us not explore. Now we're sharing this research with you. For the first time ever in a book format, you can preorder stuff they don't want you to know. Now it's the new book from us, the creators of the podcast and video series. You can turn back now or read the stuff they don't want you to know. Available for pre-order now, it's stuff you should read books.com or wherever you find your favorite books. My name is Erica Kelly and I am the host and creator of Southern Freight true crime. There are so many people that just have no idea about some injustices in the world and if you can give a voice to them, you can create change. To be able to do it within podcasting is just such a gift. I believe it was 18 months after I got on with Spreaker that I was making enough that I could quit my day job. It was incredible. Always felt like an ambassador for speaker, but that's because. Passionate about podcasting? It's really easy to use. I always tell people I am so not tech. Took me 5 minutes to get comfortable with spreaker, and when I find a new friend that has an incredible show, I want them to make money. I want them to be able to do what I did. Follow your podcasting dreams. Let's break your handle the hosting, creation, distribution, and monetization of your podcast. Go to spreaker.com. That's spreaker.com. Get paid to talk about the things you love. Spreaker from iheart. We're back and we're furious. I want the machete. We want the machete. Sophie's even on board bench to this episode. It just feels like our episode is like it could be one thing and it's gonna be another thing for the machine. We also have an odor, but that's fine. And it has a fake human signature. That might that odor may be funny. Yeah, there's no way to know. We're still sulfur. We're still waiting for the podcast. I'm gonna go get it, machete. You're gonna try. Sophie's gonna break in? Room. Do you need two knives? **** yeah. You got it. We got it. We're back, we're back and we have just. We have liberated the podcasting. *** **** it, we are a ******* duo. We are a ******* do. We did it. We liberated the podcasting machete great from an unnamed other podcast that was recording, which is very bad to do normally, but when you it was an emergency. We need the machete. Now. We have both the machete and the Billy Wayne Davis dagger on the table. This thing is ******* dope. We're ready to play again, by the way. That that sheath. As a sharpener in it, right in the middle there. I mean, so you take that. You take that strap out, you're in the field right off the land. Use my little Gerber. No, use my little spider car. Last night when we were eating steak, but this would have immediately was like you could kill a wild cow with that. There were wild cows all over the current. That could have been you. Robert. I'm so proud of us. I'm very proud of us. That was a beautiful like. Your team's mother son mission that just went really well really well we we liberated our machete for the from the fearsome name bleeped and yeah it was great. Very fearsome very fearsome name bleeped. Very fearsome name bleeped. Anyway, you're ******. Welcome. Welcome. Welcome back to this podcast. Welcome, welcome. Welcome. So, yeah, that's a good mission, you guys. Yeah. So the evidence I found makes it seem that, like Samuel Hahnemann's, the kind of ideas that would eventually turn into homeopathy were more rooted in the occult stuff he learned when he was with the Masons, then the stuff he learned in actual medical school. And the ironic thing is that this wasn't really a bad thing. That's what I was going to say. There is that part. He's like, he's learned the placebo effect of, yeah, medicine, medical, and peoples. Mental capacity of stuff. Yeah, yeah, it in the 1700s, medicine was mostly dangerous. Nonsense. Yeah, as this 1970 write up on homeopathy from the University of Washington makes pretty clear. Grease people Dumber than Granny from the Beverly Hillbillies. We're pretending to be doctors. Granny knew some ****. Granny would go into the woods and have a couple of herbs that did some things. Yeah. The point I'm making. Yeah, is that people Dumber than Granny. People Dumber than Granny. Yeah, yeah. Granny was a drunk. Granny was a drunk. In the first decades of the 19th century, medical therapy consisted mainly in bleeding, purging, vomiting, the application of leeches in the ingestion of an array of powerful chemical drugs. Their combined effect was often greatly debilitating and toxic to patients. The prevailing therapeutical confusion alternated in action, doing little while waiting for the so-called healing powers of nature to take over with aggressiveness plunging patients into acute anemias and loss of bodily fluids through the use of so-called depleting methods inherited from earlier times. So that's medicine. Inherited. Inherited? Yeah. Yeah. Hmm. After 4 semesters in medical school, in 1777, Samuel moved to Vienna and spent three months working with a doctor. Quarin, the personal doctor for Empress Maria Theresia, the good doctor, did not charge Samuel for his tutelage, but Sam was still chronically short of cash. Thankfully, Dr Quirin introduced him to the Governor of Transylvania, who offered him a gig as his family physician. At least that's what Sheila, the homeopath, says the University of Washington. By contrast, claims his main job was working as the Governor's library assistant and organizing his coin collection. So again, the homeopaths like he he worked as the the personal doctor to the Governor of Transylvania. And the more historical sources I found say that like, no, he organized a coin collection. So she is taking his whole. She varies, takes them very seriously. She's a homeopath. Well, she's doing what he's doing, which is like, I know what you said, but I know a little better. I know a little bit. Yeah, yeah, that's that's kind of she gets the gig again. She gets the gig. She has some interesting takes on autism too, for you. But I don't wanna know those. In 1779, Samuel grew tired of organizing coins. He moved to Erlangen and attended that university where he finished his medical degree. After his graduation. Hey hey, step ahead of most. Step ahead of he did it. Most of the doctors that we talk about, he got a medical degree. He got the degree. So we're OK like, you see where this is getting murky? Time for him to move to Mexico, jerking off in vials. After his graduation, Samuel spent the years between 1779 and 1785 as a nomadic wanderer, moving more than a dozen times to different towns and cities in Germany. He grew interested in chemistry in Dessau largely because he started ******* the town apothecaries daughter, according to the University of Washington chemistry. Her name was chemistry. According to the University of Washington quote, his gradual alienation from contemporary medicine and medical practices emerged during his stay in the town of Ganern. He was severely critical of the deplorable conditions in a nearby. Item for the insane. In 1785, he became a health officer for the city of Dresden, where for long years he aroused only hostility and contempt from physicians and apothecaries. He's get away. Yeah. And like, again. And he's kind of in the right. Like, he sees how ****** ** medicine is and he gets ****** at it. That does seem to be true. That, like, at this point is a working doctor. He's like, things are wrong. Yeah, this is you're not. They keep coming back. Yeah. That's not what we want. Yeah, that's not what we want. The lucky ones come back. The unlucky ones just die in the hole that we put them in there. Yeah, and the sick person whole? He's like, well, I'm also the Undertaker, so I'm doing alright. Yeah, there were a lot of those. Doctor, Undertaker, Dr Undertaker, and Doctor Barber were probably the two most common doctor mashup jobs. That's a my goal is to be a doctor bartender. I think that's a good goal. It's a golf pro doctor. Golf Pro doctor would be a good one. The reason for hangman's ostracization from the medical mainstream community had a lot to do with his frustration over how patients were treated by doctors, the physicians of his day focused. Entirely understanding the nature of illness, patients were treated more as collections of symptoms than human beings and Samuel became an advocate of a more whole person focused approach to treating patients which he believed would yield better results. And he's not wrong, he's not wrong, it's it's interesting because he's not, he's, he's not wrong in that. That makes for a better experience for the patient and that can have a positive impact on treating them. There's also an argument to be made that like all these years of doctors just focusing on the symptoms and like basically just like trying to figure out why people were dying and then cutting them up. Where they died was necessary to figure out how to perform medicine more effectively. Like, you kind of needed those kind of crappy centuries. So it's it's it's, it's it's like, well, all we know about pregnant ladies and pregnancy, the Nazis did all the experimentations, like, when we went in and we're like, hey, we found those files and we're like, hey, you shouldn't have done this, but we're going to take them right here. That's that's a bit of a myth. There were a couple of things that were found out by it, but yeah, they are. Like our dog the Nazis, most of the not like there. There was some useful stuff that was discovered in like the the horrible experiments that were carried out in concentration camps. But the vast majority of it was nonsense. Was just like injecting dyes into twins eyeballs to see if it changed the other twins eye like. For every, like, legitimate thing they discovered, there were like, 10 things that were like, yeah, we didn't need to even test this. We all could have told you, you're not going to change one twin by shooting poison into the other. Yeah, but now we know. Now we know. It is. It is. It is bad guys. Yeah. Yeah, we are. Yeah, yeah. But we found a group of us. We'll do a whole we'll we'll have you here for the episode of Nazi doctors. That's gonna be a fun episode of this show. Good God, Sophie's gonna love it. Why? Because we get to make a lot of Sophie's choice jokes. Ohh yeah. OK, yeah, yeah, sure, sure. So in 1790, while working in Dresden, Hanman got up to some work translating an old manuscript about cinchona bark, also called China Bark, which was known to be an effective treatment for malarial fever. Unlike most treatments at the time, chichona bark absolutely did work. The leading theory as to why was that the substance was an astringent. But this reasoning didn't smell right to hanman he had tried out substances far more astringent than cinchona bark on fever patients. And she did not have any affect. The actual reason that cinchona bark worked on fevers is that it had quinine in it, which is like an actual medicine. It's one of the things that get people from malaria. So, like, obviously, cinchona bark helps with malarial fever. Yeah. So they knew that this thing worked, and they were right that it helped with fevers. They just didn't know why. Well, the thing in it did. Yeah. Yeah. And. And Hanman was right in that when he was like, no, no yells, reasoning for why this works is wrong. And then he tried to figure out the real reason why it worked and became even more. Long now, OK, but in a weird way to try and figure out why cinchona bark helped with malarial fever, hanman started experimenting on himself. He had a sizeable dose of the bark and noted its effect on him as he wrote in his notes. Quote my feet, finger ends, etcetera, at first became cold. I grew languid and drowsy. Then my heart began to palpitate and my pulse grew hard and small, intolerable anxiety, trembling, prostration all throughout all my limbs, then pulsation in the head redness of my cheeks, thirst, and in short, all these symptoms which are ordinarily characteristic of intermittent fever made their appearance. One after the other, yet without the peculiar chili shivering rigor. Briefly, even though symptoms which are of regular occurrence, and especially characteristic as the dullness of mind, the kind of rigidity in all the limbs, but above all the numb, disagreeable sensation which seems to have its seed, and the periosteum over every bone in the body, all these made their appearance. This paroxysm lasted two or three hours each time, and recurred if I repeated this dose, not otherwise, I discontinued it and was in good health. So he has, like, a really bad reaction to this **** kind of like a fever. That's his. That's his interpretation of his like, oh, this. Taking this fever treatment feels like a fever to me. Yeah. So Hanman was struck by a revelation as a result of this. If this bark cured fevers but also gave him a fever when he took it while he was healthy, maybe that meant sicknesses were cured by substances that acted similarly to the illness they were treating. I can see the logic. You can see the logic in that. You can see like, it's not he's not a dumb person at this stage in medical development for being like, oh, maybe this is what's going on. Well, that's the steps you would take, I guess, just to figure stuff out. I can see how a smart person would be like, oh **** I think I I think I figured something out. I. And I think I'm saying that because that's what I would do. That's what. And there's there actually is some not in his particular conclusion of it, but like, vaccines essentially worked that way. Yeah. You get a little small, so you're bad bodies and then he's he's. Wrong for the right reasons, I guess you could say. Or like he's there are some things in medicine that work like what Hanman realizes here. His, yeah, his. His main problem is that he generalizes way too much. That's humans. Yeah, that's humans, exactly. That's yes. But again, you see, I I have trouble. This guy's an imperfect person. And we'll we'll get to some of his character flaws a little later, too. But he he's not a *******. No, he's not. He's not a *******. He's doing his best in an era where nobody knows anything about medicine. But he. Yeah, and he's one of the few people raising his eyebrow to everything, being like, I don't know, I think y'all are wrong. And he's right, but he's wrong, too. I don't know the answer. Yeah, yeah, but that ain't it. But he does eventually get to the point where he feels like he knows the answer. So yeah, Hanman, based on this single experiment, worked up a bold new theory of medical science, which he summarized with the now infamous line like cures like. OK, that's one of the mail. That is 4 facts of homeopathy. To get your thing going, you do need something catchy. Mm-hmm. It's like in order to beat Donald Trump, a doddering, ill old man, we need another doddering ill old man whose eye fills with blood at random intervals. I don't think we need that one. Nope. That's what's going to happen, Billy Wayne. ******* hope you're so wrong. We've all decided. He gave me that knife. I think that that is no, no, I hope not. But I think if you travel at all, you're like, damn. It's like, like here's like, it's like when we when when, when, uh, Mitt Romney and a violent Christian extremist ran for president. The only person to beat them was Barack Obama, who was essentially or not Mitt Romney. Jesus, I ****** this up entirely. Yeah, I was like, what are you doing? I I don't know. It's it's like how Barack Obama and John McCain are the same person. Hmm. Yeah. See, it doesn't make any sense. This is just this didn't work at all for a woman. OK, continue. A woman that's not like curing like Sophie. That's that's love. Curing, like, that's not homeopathy. Is homeopathy is very. Yeah. I think, yeah. So handman's basic idea was that medicines treated illness by causing similar symptoms in the patient. And thus when you had when you dose someone with something that made them sick and they were already sick, the two sicknesses was cancel each other out. Now you may recognize this as the same medical reasoning and that one episode where Mr. Burns goes to the doctor and they realize that he has all of the diseases. OK Oh yeah. Yeah. Your illnesses are in perfect balance. Yeah. That's that's literally hannemann's like. Like revelation as a result of making himself sick on cinchona bark. Ohhh. Yeah, you just kill it. It's like he his thing is like, you fight fire with fire. It's kind of like that. The problem came to him and you're on fire. He was like, just give him some more. Give him a little bit more fire that's going to give him. I mean, that is kind of how you deal with wildfires, but not in the same way. But not humans, but not a human fire. I do understand. You do fire. Fire. I understand how that works. It's kind of like the vaccine versus. Yeah. Yeah. No, it is. Vaccine for fires. Yes, a little bit of fire will cure this fire. Yeah, we control it before it does it itself. Yeah, it's it's a problem with overgeneralizing. Yeah, it is. Yeah. Because I did try to stop a kitchen fire once by just lighting other parts of the kitchen on fire and that did not work. That doesn't work. Like that doesn't work. Or putting like water on a grease fire. Do you know that? Nope. But if you put grease on a water fire that if you've got water on fire, then you are you are the city of Cleveland. Yes. Yeah, sure. You guys caught your river on fire. We did. Every time I make fun of Cleveland for their river being on fire that like five times that it caught on fire. They point out how clean it is today, and I'm like, I'm sorry. Yeah, because all the stuff burned up because the poison burned down the river. Yes. He claimed it. I'm never gonna let Cleveland live that one down. They don't care. They don't care. They don't. They've been drunk the whole time, right? I love Cleveland. It's fun. You can mess anything up they don't notice. She got mad. Sophie's is a Cleveland Stan. No. I was just thinking about the only thing that they got mad about is when LeBron left. Why be mad about that, too? Yeah, that's the only thing they have. Yeah, well, he left. He's ours now. Well, he's no ones. He's a Laker now. Beautiful. LeBron James belongs to the world. Just jam. He is precious. He is a precious gem. Possibly one of the people least fit for this podcast. Yeah, he's so nice. Meanwhile, every move he makes is great. Yeah, he's he's he's a class act. Mm-hmm. Shack. Unlike Shaq, no, he's like Shaq. Oh, he's like Shaq. Yeah, I like Shaq. I like Shaq, too. Shack's great. Shaq is great, sharing shacks great. But I mean, he's definitely not as nice of a person as LeBron James. You don't know that. I feel like now we're just now we're just splitting very large, tall hairs. Hmm. Do you want to, like, continue with your podcast? Continue the podcast just like a pot you do host? I do. I do host a podcast. So the logic of hanmi's idea that like cures like was reinforced a few years later when Doctor Edward Jenner invented the first smallpox vaccine. This worked by, you know, essentially introducing a small sample of the disease into a patient to immunize them. Now, today we know that what Jenner did with his vaccine is very different than what hangman proposed. But at the time, given the information available, you could be forgiven for taking Jenner's breakthrough. Is more evidence that hangman. Was on the right track, and it may harm an insufferable Barack. He definitely was. That happens after this point where he's, like, been telling y'all I figured it out. Who told you? Clearly this is the same thing, damn it. Electrified by his study, Samuel Hanman began a series of experiments to develop what he believed would be a whole new and much more valid School of Medicine, since the underlying theory behind it all was that like, cures like, he called his new system homeopathy. On his first book on the subject, he wrote to obtain a quick and lasting. Here choose for every attack or illness a substance that which can produce a similar malady to the one it is to cure. Modern day homeopaths still cite this experiment as one of the greatest developments in the history of mankind. One modern textbook claims cinchona bark was to hangman, with the falling apple was to Newton and the swinging lamp to Galileo. Hanman launched next into a series of bold experiments, both on himself and on his children, his wife and his students, and his first book, fragmented Rehabus. He asserted that he had experienced 122 different symptoms from ingesting cinchona bark, which suggested it must have a wide-ranging medical application likewise Samuel had listed. 174 known symptoms with the consumption of green Peppers. So. I deal with health problems by eating Peppers. God, 174 of them. Although, you know, this is obviously not a real medicine, but it also seems pretty harmless, like eating. Eating green Peppers isn't going to cure anything, but it's not going to make you worse. Unfortunately, the very logic of like cures like lead hanman inevitably towards experiments with literal poisons, Martin Gumper, one of his biographers, wrote. Day after day. He tested medicines on himself and others. He collected histories of cases of poisoning. His purpose was to establish a physiological. Doctrine of medical remedies, free from all suppositions, based solely on experiments. Hanman sent his children into the fields to collect henbane, sumac and deadly nightshade. They grew up like young priests of the escalation of costs. They felt the leaves, blossoms and tubers with small but expert hands. Everyone was obliged to join in the work. For there was no other way to succeed in his Titanic plan of rescuing the wealth of natural remedies from the quagmire of textbooks and displaying it in the bright light of experience. The family huddled together, and every free moment of every one of them, from the oldest to the youngest, was made of for the testing of medicines and the gathering of the most precise. Information on their observed effects. So he sends his kids out in the field to grab poison and take it. So that's good. I mean, that's how you lose kids. There are his kids. He owns them. That's his. He's a doctor. He's a doctor. It was an exciting time for Hangman and his family. Unfortunately, which ones are gonna die? He was not an exciting time for many of his patients, and I'm gonna quote now from the ACA SH's right up on homeopathy, having amassed voluminous pseudo knowledge by pairing many specific vile substances, in particular diseases whose symptoms most resemble the effects he attributed to those substances. Hanman set up shop is the original homeopath who would begin his consultations by putting wearisomely numerous questions to the patient they're applies would contribute to his building a picture of the patient's condition. The picture based exclusively on these replies. The patient's appearance and hanman supposedly got given intuition. For example, if the patient had a Gray pallor, was sweating profusely, and said that he or she suffered from abdominal cramps, hanman would in effect look up Gray pallor, sweating, and abdominal cramps. In his tomb, use cross references to narrow down possible remedies and thus decide that strict 9A toxic alkaloid was the ideal cure for the patient's condition. It'll make it stop. It'll make it. It will. It will stop a lot. Yes, it'll make it stop. Mm-hmm. Strict 9 causes sweating. And horrific cramps itself. So it seemed like a logical treatment for a patient exhibiting those same symptoms. Unfortunately, giving literal poison to sick people is likelier to kill them than cure them. That's that was OK. Good. That's what I thought, but I wasn't sure you were going to say that. Yeah, that's where this is heading. Kills a lot of people before he says the poisons because of the poisons. Turns out that's bad. It's it's his defense. The. You have to let me fail, hmm? If I have succeeded in curing one patient, it's only because I failed on 999. It's a numbers game. You kill 100% of the patients you don't treat. That is. That's what Wayne Gretzky said. Doctor, Reverend, Doctor Wayne Gretzky, yeah, that's his famous. My headphones fell off. That can only mean it's time for an ad plug, Billy Wayne. OK, plug it before before, before we do the ad plug you want to touch. Tips here. Just want to touch to their with our with our blades beep products. So good. Mint Mobile offers premium wireless starting at just 15 bucks a month. And now for the plot twist. Nope, there isn't one. Mint Mobile just has premium wireless from 15 bucks a month. There's no trapping you into a two year contract. You're opening the bill to find all these nuts fees. There's no luring you in with free subscriptions or streaming services that you'll forget to cancel and then be charged full price for none of that. For anyone who hates their phone Bill, Mint Mobile offers premium wireless for just $15.00 a month. Mint Mobile will give you the best rate whether you're buying one or for a family. And it meant. Families start at 2 lines. All plans come with unlimited talk and text, plus high speed data delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. You can use your own phone with any mint mobile plan and keep your same phone number along with all your existing contacts. Just switch to Mint mobile and get premium wireless service starting at 15 bucks a month. Get premium wireless service from just $15.00 a month and no one expected plot twists at mintmobile.com/behind. That's mintmobile.com/behind. Seriously, you'll make your wallet very happy at Mint Mobile. Com slash behind. Hey, it's Rick Schwartz, one of your hosts for San Diego Zoo's Amazing Wildlife podcast. In this special episode, we sit down with Doctor Jane Goodall to hear her inspiring thoughts on how we can create a better future for humans, animals and the environment. Getting particularly young children out into nature so that they can experience it and take time off from this virtual world of being always on your cell phones and so on. And get the feel of nature so that you come to be fascinated, then you come to want to understand it, and then you come to love it, and at that point you want to protect it. And then we'll come to the sort of healthy world that I envision as a good future for us. And the rest of life on this planet. Listen to amazing wildlife on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Your miraval matte courage already runs in your blood. He needs to be stopped. We've been silent and complacent for far too long. Sisters of the Underground is a new scripted series about fearless women exploring the life and legacy of the Mirabal sisters, Dominican women who were brave enough to challenge decades of oppression. Together, they led their country toward a revolution against Rafael Trujillo, the brutal dictator who ruled the Dominican Republic for 30 years. Please, please help us has blood on his hands from executive producers Dania Ramirez and Eva Longoria. That's me comes the powerful retelling of this all too relevant narrative. Listen to sisters of the underground as part of Michael Toura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We're back. Sophie, you're making a strange face. What's up? I feel left out. I don't have a weapon. Here, here. You got that mind? You have this. Why, thank you, Billy. You're welcome. I'll pull out my knife. I get the machete. Your thanks, Robert. OK, alright, cool. Alright, let's let's touch tips and and commit recommit ourselves to the study of bastardry before we get back to this topic. That's good. That's going to be great content for the audio podcast. We metal on metal. Yeah, everybody loves the sound of metal on metal. Almost as much as they sent love the sound of Cody's time machine. Although it was so crazy. That was horrible. That was disgusting now. Uh, do I choose to believe that's a metaphor for something disgusting? It's a literal of something. Discuss. Cody Johnston made the most horrifying what he thought was the sound effect for a time machine. It sounded like. Sounded like cockroaches performing oral sex. Yeah, yeah, it wasn't great. It was like, no, terrible. OK, Speaking of terrible. Little Hans practice of giving poison to sick people worked out terribly and and killed a huge number of them. Quote for stomach pains, he regularly prescribed quarter oz doses of mercury. He instructed one person so much mercury, right? God, that's like, that's like 20 thermometers worth of mercury and that's gonna hurt you. That is not going to help. Not coming back. He instructed 1 poor soul to take half an ounce of sulfuric acid in the morning. Another half Oz later that day. I don't know. I do not think they made it to the second. If you get to the end of the day, take a little more, take a little more. If you make it, you could just imagine that person making it through and then just being like, alright, you got taken over. I don't. I don't want to do it again. That second dose just falls right out through the whole first made it through. Oh my God, yeah, a purported healing system that Hanman asserted God had revealed to him was having devilish effects on his patients who were dropping like flies. I just picked him with a big pad of paper and just going Nope, Nope, that one. No, it's not the solution. Not it. Nope. I'm. And I'm guessing it was like, for heartburn or something. It's like, oh, your heart's burning. I think I know what I'll deal with this. Burn your heart back. You wanna burn your heart back into alignment? Take it. Drink some ******* acid. Drink it. Ohh boy. Yeah, so you know why is it bubbling? That's the carbonation. Some doctors might have, you know, realized from all of these dead people that this theory of like, curing, like, maybe was not as universally applicable as hanman thought. But Samuel Handman did not make that decision. Instead, he decided that his theory just needed a little bit of alteration. Hmm. You know, you don't, you don't want to, you don't want to scrap a whole medical theory just because you burn a couple of people to death with acid. Yeah, he just looked up in his. His healing Paul was a lot smaller than the dead body pile. Yeah, and that means that does mean you need to rejigger some things. Yeah. Yeah. Maths wrong. The maths not right. Working out here. Yeah. Now, to adjust his theory, hunman turned back to his Masonic and occult roots. He added a new stage to the treatment. Instead of just dosing his patients with fatal poisons and watching them die horribly, he began diluting said poisons to a ridiculous extent. He'd start by adding 99 drops of alcohol to one drop of the actual substance, and then he would shake the mixture. And potentially use it and activate its magical power. Potentiality, potentiality. That they still do that. You gotta shake this ****. Obviously you don't shake. It doesn't work. That's it's like one of those. It's like one of those five hour energies. Yeah, you got to shake it. Got to shake it. He would then dilute it further, adding 99 drops of water to one drop of this 1C mixture and that would create a 2C mixture. And so on down the line until essentially nothing was left of the original substance. Of course, no, this was the placebo. It's just a placebo. But Tahanan, he saw this instantly have a massive positive effect on his patients. Because it's way better to give someone water than strict knife. Yes, yes, yes. I didn't go to. I mean, I allegedly. I don't know for a fact, but that's how doing a lot of the medical school. I'm not a doctor, but I suggested that to me. I think if you drink water, it'll make you feel better. Aren't you both Reverend doctors? That trick we haven't. We haven't gone to Haiti. Yeah. To bleach people. There's the bleach part that yeah, I understand, but I want that. Sweet, sweet. I do want that title. You take a just what if we make our own program? How do we become an accredited to give people fake medical degrees? This is America. You can do anything like this is America. We're just like, oh, I don't think it's probably as hard as we think it is. Yeah, we gotta find someone who owns a small college and give us an honorary doctorate. You know who's let's talk to? Oh, what's his liberty? They're in trouble, right? Liberty University we just did an episode on. I bet we could get that. Yeah, they need some help right now. They need some help right now. Let's get in bed with the fall wells. Yeah, what could go wrong? No where we get in the pool with the Falwell. Ohh yeah. Have you seen that stuff about the trainers? Yeah, yeah, yeah, boy. Yeah. What, what is his name? What one? John. Carlo. John. John. It's so, yeah. I'm. I'm proudest of him. He did well. He did. He did very well. Every move he made. I was like a good boy. There's a good story. Solid man. Now, so obviously, hunman starts diluting his literal poison and he notices a massive improvements in his surviving patients. Dehydrated anymore? Yeah, it's great. Nor are my insides liquefying. It's great now. Tahman. This proved he was on the right track. He added the aphorism less is more to like, cures like, and together, these two facts laid the cornerstone of homeopathic medicine. Yep, Huntman's Diaries of his less is more. Included. Much alchemic and astrologic symbol. Oh, I'm, I'm sorry. I'm quoting here from that that write up. They all understand marketing. Oh yeah? Yeah. To it like a degree that most people. I wonder. With Hanman, though, I I wonder if he's just this is just kind of how science works when you know less got you where you have to fight. Everyone's dying from everyone's treatments because they're all bad. Like we we laugh about him giving someone 1/4 ounce of mercury because that's debt. But also, like normal doctors who weren't homeopaths, we're also giving people **** loads of work here, and we know that you don't do that now because of them. Because of them. Yeah, there is that point, yeah. So I I think it's very possible that hanman is just, he's making some clearly some logical failures and being like, uh, now when I diluted it, they got better. That means diluting it makes the medicine stronger. It's like, no, no, it's not. That's not, that's not quite it. No. This stuff is killing them and you're giving them less stuff. You just stopped poisoning them. He's like, Nah. Or or what? Less is more, yeah, yeah. Or the saying. Yeah. So he he started, you know, spinning his night, shaking and mixing and and cooking up all sorts of magical cures for people. And over time, Hanman greeted dilute his medicines more and more. In 1799, while he was based in a small town called Konig Sluter, an outbreak of scarlet fever hit the community. Hunman thought the symptoms of the disease, headaches and wide open eyelids with a dull staring look were similar to the effects he'd observed. And his friends and family, when he dosed them with atropine to see what would happen following the theory of light curing, like he dosed patients with atropine. Thankfully, it was an extremely diluted one 432 thousandth solution, so it it, you know, it was basically water. I'm going to quote from the University of Washington here, the reason for diluting the drug was hangman's awareness that drugs were often responsible for aggregating existing diseases or introducing new ones with contemporary dosages. Still believing he was observing drug effects, he gradually gave his pure drugs and greater. Solutions. Hanman rationalized this action by speculating that an illness the body was enormously more sensitive to drugs than in health. He's making a lot of logical leaps here. It's interesting. I mean, yeah. And here's the question. When is he also dosing himself? Yes. So he's just getting madder and madder. Yeah. I I I do suspect that's having an impact. Yeah, because he gave himself a lot of poisons. Yeah, I'm sure. Did that son, his kids affect the mind? You don't hear much about his kids. Nanny. Well, well, all that mercury. Yeah. Now, he continued his tactic of diluting his medication until things reached their current point of homeopathic. Certify a modern homeopathic treatment for the common cold would be a 6C solution of Union. Why onion? Because when you cut an onion your nose gets all stuffed up like it does when you have a cold. Ohh man yeah. Now if you're wondering how much actual onion is in a 6C dilution, well, I'm going to quote from the CSH is right up again. A 6C onion concentration would result if one filled Wimbley stadium to the roof with water and added one drop of an onion mother tincture. A12C onion concentration in homeopathic pill is equivalent to that, which would result if one added. A single drop of onion mother tincture to a body of water the size of the Atlantic Ocean. So just give him water. He's just giving them water or water. Kind of depends on how you're doing the matrix. Yeah. It's like an onion version of the Croy. Yeah. It's like more concentrated or more diluted Lacroix. Yeah. We're Crohn's. A lot stronger than homeopathic medicine. Is someone in the next room cutting onions, like, no, that's the medicine. That's the medicine. But we did make it by having someone in the next room cut onions. And we took this, the smell of it, and sprinkled it on the water. He actually getting into what is the problem? One of the modern problems with homeopathic medicine, but that's gonna wait until Part 2. They don't always dilute it so much. Now the ironic thing about all this is that hunman's nonsense medicine actually saved a huge number of lives during this period of time. This is not because his cures worked, but it is because real doctors in this. Were prescribing people poison. Most sicknesses suffered by most people get better on their own after enough time if you just don't give people deadly poisons press. So hannemann's patients would start taking his nonsense. Water. They would heal of their bodies own accord, and they would avoid going to a regular Doctor Who would have probably tried to drill a hole in their brain to let the ghosts out in this way completely by accident. Samuel Hanman did succeed in advancing the frontiers of medical science in a major way. I'm going to quote from the 1963 book The March of Medicine. However we may judge Huntman's theory, one thing must be admitted. It led to a decisive change in medical thought. Clear headed doctors realized that a minimum dose of an ineffectual substance such as homeopaths used was tantamount to giving no treatment if the sick recovered all the same. And this could not be disputed, it must be a matter of self healing. Homeopathic treatment, in other words. No treatment was often far better. So yeah, basically doctors start realizing, like, OK, this guy's giving people nothing. We know that. We know that like his because we knew math. Like we know Avogadro's number of **** this point we know this is just. Water and his patients are doing better than ours. Maybe we suck. Yeah. Maybe we're bad at this and we need to really fundamentally change how we do medicine. Hmm. And Hunman was a big part of that realization. That's really nice. Yeah. And it's also like, you think there was a period of, like, maybe if we send our patients to the ghost we let out of their brain that would help. Yeah. That they tried, we're doing. They sent a lot of patients to the ghosts that they let out of their brain, too. It just seems like probably a step they went through. Yeah. It wasn't an even March of progress. When does it hold on, that dude was the doctor and we let that ghost out of his brain. Let's see what the doctor goes now. And he didn't give them poison. So the ghost doctor was a better doctor than the actual doctors? Yeah. The ghost doctor would absolutely be a better. I would rather go to a ghost doctor in this. Than hanman or a regular doctor. That the more and more I come to these, the more and more I realize, like, ohh, it makes sense. We've destroyed this planet. Yeah. Yeah, we're not we're not a smart species. Yeah, it's crazy it took us this long. Yeah. No, we've really made a lot of progress for his. Dumb as we are. It's kind of inspiring when you think about it that way we're doing all right, you guys. While real doctors took the apparent success of Hohmann's methods as a reason to revise their tactics, Samuel himself continued to plow forward and develop his treatments into a wide-ranging belief system. Homeopathy was immediately popular with patients for obvious reasons from a report in the National Institutes of Health quote. The differences between orthodox medicine and homeopathy could hardly be more vivid from its beginning. Homeopathy always began with a long consultation lasting at least an hour, in which all aspects of the patients, illness and life were discussed. Homeopaths like to stress that they practice holistic medicine. And the appropriate treatment chosen. In contrast, during the first half of the 19th century, when homeopathy was becoming established, orthodox medicine was immersed in the belief that advances and understanding disease could only come from a detailed correlation of symptoms and signs of the sick patient on the ward, and the findings that autopsy clinicopathological correlation. So these Orthodox tactics did lead to eventually a greater understanding of health and illness, but it also meant, in the immediate term, that doctors were basically often we're just going to wait till you die and cut you open. And then we'll see. And then we'll be better in the future. Which patients aren't big fans of. No, no, that's not why you go. They like a Doctor Who treats you as a person and not as just like, waiting to cut into your corpse and be like, you took your car into the mechanic and he's like, ah, I could, but I'm not going to. Yeah, but when it quits running, bring it to me. I'm your brakes. Fail on the highway. I'll cut your car open afterwards, and I'll take a look at their brakes. Yeah, I'll tell you. Which is why the brakes didn't work. Exactly why they didn't work. Yeah, so Hanman showed no interest in detail pathology, none in conventional diagnosis and treatment. He was only interested in the principles of homeopathic medicine, which he used to name the illness. Classic homeopathy was therefore seen by its supporters as an attractively safe symptom, simple, easy to understand, and centered on the patient as a whole, and not on pathological lesions. By 1801, Hanman had moved on yet again, back to a town near Leipzig. His notebooks revealed the kind of problems most of his patients came to him with. Insomnia, headaches, dizziness, Constipation, lack of appetite, back aches, menopause, menstruation. In other words, all things that tended to resolve themselves. Life. Yeah, life. But Samuel Hunman watched his patients improve after giving them water, and he grew convinced that he had solved the problem of sickness for all time. His fellow doctors were less than convinced, and they were particularly frustrated with the fact that high society, the aristocracy and the very wealthy. Increasingly embraced homeopathy over orthodox medicine. By 1805 he was widely recognized as a physician of note. In 1810 he published the Organon of Rational Healing, which would be published in five editions. During his lifetime, Leipzig University, his alma mater, hired him to give lectures. From 1812 to 1821, he taught six month courses on the principles of homeopathy. Curious young minds from all over Europe flocked to Hanmi's classroom to learn from the master. By this point he'd grown utterly convinced of his own brilliance, to the point where he told one group of students. He who does not walk on exactly the same line with me, who diverges if it be, but the breath of a straw to the right or the left is an apostate and a traitor. And with him I have nothing to do. Ohh good. Yeah, good. He doesn't get more better at in his old age. No. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's it's this is kind of where he gets to be a little bit more problematic. Well, everyone's telling him how great he is. Yeah. Yep, Yep. And, you know, in fairness to him, compared to the poison doctors, he saw it good. It's not giving people poison is a good move. As a doctor. I wish I'd been a doctor then it would be so much easier. Yeah. Machetazo could have really taken off, I think. So he just knows that that era just cut off a digit and just cut off a finger, that is. Oh, he's trying to give you acid. I'm just gonna cut your finger off. Just give me which finger do you hate? Yeah, you have a we all have one with love. Everybody's got an evil finger. Which finger do you? That's the core of machetes in God. All right. It's time for ads, Sophie. Sophie saying it's time for ads if you like. Cutting your finger off? Try these products services. Mint Mobile offers premium wireless starting at just 15 bucks a month. And now for the plot twist. Nope, there isn't one. Mint Mobile just has premium wireless from 15 bucks a month. There's no trapping you into a two year contract. You're opening the bill to find all these nuts fees. There's no luring you in with free subscriptions or streaming services that you'll forget to cancel and then be charged full price for none of that. For anyone who hates their phone Bill, Mint Mobile offers premium wireless for just $15.00 a month. Mint Mobile will give you the best rate whether you're buying one or for a family. And it meant. Families start at 2 lines. All plans come with unlimited talk and text, plus high speed data delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. You can use your own phone with any mint mobile plan and keep your same phone number along with all your existing contacts. Just switch to Mint mobile and get premium wireless service starting at 15 bucks a month. Get premium wireless service from just $15.00 a month and no one expected plot twists at mintmobile.com/behind. That's mintmobile.com/behind. Seriously, you'll make your wallet very happy at Mint Mobile. Com slash behind. Hey, it's Rick Schwartz, one of your hosts for San Diego Zoo's Amazing Wildlife podcast. In this special episode, we sit down with Doctor Jane Goodall to hear her inspiring thoughts on how we can create a better future for humans, animals and the environment. Anything, particularly young children out into nature so that they can experience it and take time off from this virtual world of being always on your cell phones and so on. And get the feel of nature so that you come to be fascinated, then you come to want to understand it, and then you come to love it, and at that point you want to protect it. And then we'll come to the sort of healthy world that I envision as a good future for us. And the rest of life on this planet. Listen to amazing wildlife on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Your mirabar matte courage already runs in your blood. He needs to be stopped. We've been silent and complacent for far too long. Sisters of the Underground is a new scripted series about fearless women exploring the life. My name is Erica Kelly and I am the host and creator of Southern Freight true crime. There are so many people that just have no idea about some injustices in the world, and if you can give a voice to them, you can create change. To be able to do it within podcasting is just such a gift. I believe it was 18 months after I got on with Spreaker that I was making enough that I could quit my day job. It was incredible. I always feel like an ambassador for speaker, but that's because I'm passionate about podcasting. It's really easy to use. I always tell people I am so not tech. Took me 5 minutes to get comfortable with speaker, and when I find a new friend that has an incredible show, I want them to make money. I want them to be able to do what I did. Follow your podcasting dreams. Let's break your handle the hosting, creation, distribution, and monetization of your podcast. Go to spreaker.com. That's spreaker.com. Get paid to talk about the things you love with spreaker from iheart. We're back. You tried, though, Billy. Thank you. In 1821, at age 66, Samuel Hunman was granted unlimited privileges by a nearby Duchess, allowing him to live in luxury while he took a partial retirement to further develop his theories. 66 in the 1800s, he lives a long ******* life, that is. That mean it's old now. Yeah, he lives forever, essentially. Yeah. He continued to be the center of the homeopathic field, directing the establishment of a homeopathic journal and watching his new homeopathic schools were established by his former students. Homeopathy spread over the continent. Samuel Hanman continued to work until, in 1828, he presented his greatest discovery since his first breakthrough. The father of homeopathy had finally found the root of all chronic illnesses. No, the itch. Scabies? Really? Yeah, he decided it was scabies. And it's not that. I can tell you from experience, that's not the reason. It's not the root of all illnesses. I've stayed in some shady hotels and stuff. Yeah, now hunman termed it Sora and claimed that scabies basically acted as the soil from which all diseases sprung. Modern homeopaths are very much divided on whether or not this last great theory opponents was a misstep or the key to a proper homeopathic treatment. Actual doctors recognized that scabies to actually caused by tiny microscopic mites. And has nothing to do with same multiple sclerosis area after chronic illness. But I'm sure. And during that time, it was a huge problem. Scabies is everywhere. Everywhere. Everybody's got scabies who comes in with something else wrong. Yes. Must be the scabies causing it. It's like people that that do ******** drugs always also smoke pot. Yeah, that's the same. That's exactly that logic. Yes. Yeah. Gotcha. Now in 1835. Hanman married a 35 year old French socialite. She'd originally been one of his patients. 35 year olds. 35 that's I mean even then is like even them old ***** dudes exist. Yeah, old ***** dudes. And he is apparently great at it. Yeah, she'd originally been one of his patients, which I'm sure presented no ethical dilemma. None. His family, particularly his surviving children, were horrified when the now very elderly scientist left for France with his young new wife. Oddly enough, that year, 1835, was also the year homeopathy faced its first effective. Rebuttal using what we would recognize today as actual science. Oh, I bet he didn't like that. I you know, I don't even know what he thought about it, because it's not like there weren't, like, online journals and stuff. This happened far away from him. I don't know. He was busy and he was he was busy *******. His new wife was like, oh, you guys got a problem with it? I don't care. I'll make sure you ain't got no scabbing. She's French. Homeopathy you taken off among the great and good in the Kingdom of Bavaria in Nuremberg, 2 homeopathic doctors did a brisk business treating the nobility with nonsense water. This irritated a fella named Friedrich Vilhelm von Hoven, the city's chief public health official and the head of the hospitals. He wrote a critique of homeopathy under a pseudonym. According to the NIH quote, von Hoven accused homeopathy of lacking any scientific foundation. He suggested that homeopathic drugs were not real medicines at all, and alleged homeopathic cures were either, due to Dietetic regimes and the healing powers of nature. They showed the power of belief. He called for an objective comparative assessment by impartial experts. If, as he expected, homeopathic treatment proved ineffective, the government would need to take drastic measures to protect the lives of deceived patients. A little bit of both in between. It seems like everyone is very reactionary to the I mean, nothing's changed. That's what humans are. But they can't. They have a hard time going in between? Yeah, it's interesting. It is interesting. It's it's a common problem with people. Johann Jacob Reuter, Nuremberg's homeopathic Dr, defended his discipline by claiming that even children, lunatics and animals had been cured by homeopathic solutions. He challenged von Hoven to try some homemade comparisons, like, you know, group children, lunatics, and animals and animals, the three kinds of people you know. He challenged von Hoven to try some homeopathic medicine A30C dilution of salt and see if he didn't feel something. This test or challenge sparked dozens of physicians and pharmacists in Nuremberg to take him up on his offer and said, now I want something sweet. Yeah, now now I kind of want some chocolates. So suddenly all these physicians start doing tests on themselves with diluted salt water, and eventually they hit upon the idea of conducting a single large scale test include instead of all doing individual tests. Quote following a widely publicized invitation to anyone who is interested, more than 120 citizens met in a local Tavern. The minimum numbers needed to proceed had been fixed at 50. The design of the proposed trial was explained in detail in front of everyone. 100 vials were numbered, thoroughly shuffled, and then split up into random into two lots of 51 lot was filled with distilled snow water, the other with ordinary salt and homeopathic C30 dilution of distilled snow water prepared just as Reuter had demanded. A grain of salt was dissolved in 100 drops of distilled snow water, and the resulting solution was diluted 29 times. At a ratio of 1 to 100. So this is like a double line experiment. Yeah, you get your control, you get your your your test group. And a list was made of which subjects had received which substances. The subjects themselves were kept in the dark about what they received. So this is believed to be the first double-blind study conducted in the history of medicine. Wow. This is what it's done to try and see if homeopathy worked like 100 hunman advanced the frontiers of medical science more than almost any other single person, completely by accident. Yeah. Completely by accident. It's kind of cool, but contrarian. Yeah. Accident, that being like, no, I think. I don't think this is right. Yeah, I think I'm the only one who knows anything. And, well, that's what I was going to say, too, is like, a lot of it seems like a lot even to this day. Arrogance, yeah. Takes us way farther and helps us in some degree, but we hurt ourselves pretty hard till we get there. There's a lot of, there's actually a lot of interesting writings on the evolution of overconfidence. And like, why overconfidence occurs in species and stuff. And like, how if you're, if you've got two species, two different animals competing over resource, and one of them believes irrationally that it will win in a fight. And so it always tries to grab the thing. Like sometimes it'll get in fights and sometimes it will lose those fights. But more often than not, the less confident thing will just be like, I don't want to, I don't want to **** with you, but the dog that goes for the treat first gets the treat most often, you know, or yeah, you, whoever throws the first punch. And with human beings. Means sometimes we build arsenals of nuclear weapons capable of annihilating all life on earth and hand them to doddering old men. Mm-hmm. And it also means sometimes we look up at the moon and go, yeah, I bet we could fling a guy into that. Let's just go up there. Let's figure this **** out. Yeah, we could do it. **** it. I mean, if my car goes this fast, let's just a bigger gas tank. Yeah, that's that. That happened in Huntsville, AL. That's where they that's where they build those rockets. Yeah. So keep making fun of the South. Yeah, we ******* landed on the *** **** moon. That's where all the NASA **** is. Umm, because nobody else is that ******* crazy? No. Well, that's a lot of it too. Is there a lot of rednecks going? Like, wait, I know how to do this. I can get us up there. That's really like the core history. That's why, like, all the great test pilots come from like, Ohio or something like flat, boring place. Very, very confident in old age. We're like, well, God, how cocky was he when he was little? How could you not be being Chuck Yeager, though? I think you accomplished. Couple things. And then you're just like, oh, I can do anything I want. And you're like, who's that Chuck air? Oh yeah, go ahead. You want cigarettes? Just let him. Yeah, you can smoke in the maternity ward. So obviously the double-blind. This first double-blind study showed that it didn't. The homeopathic medicine didn't do anything. So the first blind study worked. Yeah, it worked. So yeah, in 1835, a bunch of dudes at a bar succeeded in proving homeopathy was nonsense. But as I've said a number of times on this show, proof has never convinced anyone of anything. Nope. Yeah, homeopathy is the oldest European example of what we now call Cam, or complementary and alternative medicine. That's a nice term used by professionals today to avoid hurting the feelings of people who. Really believe crystals are going to heal their arthritis? The whole reason a field of fundamentally unscientific ideas is treated this way traces back to Samuel Hanman. Before his rise to prominence, medicine outside the mainstream without data behind it was just called quackery. Going to quote next from an article in the Royal Society of Medicine, most of these pre 1850 quacks tended to specialize. Some were bone setters, others claim to cure venereal disease without the use of mercury. A doctor Taylor of Beverly and Gloucester arranged to attend regularly at three public houses to which patients only had to send in their urine, and he would tell it once whether they were curable or not. There were self styled Oculus who specialized in the treatment of cataract and curious of cancer without operation. One of the latter calling himself the High German doctor. Simon invited you to visit his house and see for yourself a cancer of the armpit of five pieces of 12 1/2 ounces, weight which he claimed to have removed. Most of these regulars were uneducated or even illiterate and only a minority were full-time healers. Usually had regular jobs such as blacksmith, farrier, grocer, butcher, cheesemonger, cobbler, cutter or mechanic. They often claimed patronage of the great and good. Doctor Scott's bilious and liver pills were used by the Dukes of Devonshire, Northumberland and Wellington, Anglesey and Hastings and the Earls of Pembroke, Essex and Oxford, while Doctor Lampert, at 36 High Street Borough, London, claimed to visit the world to do in the West Indies, the Isles of Scilly, London, Nottingham, Derby, Norwich, Lincoln, Boston, Glouchester, Wolverhampton, Litchfield, a bunch of ******* British names and for good measure almost every other town in the Kingdom. These are regulars had one thing in common, they had little if any interest in understanding of orthodox medicine in their time. Ain't got time for fancy book learning. I'm doing magic. And it's not always bad. Like the doctors who are like, oh, we can cure your VD without using mercury. Like, they couldn't hear people's STD's, but they weren't making it worse with Mercury. Yeah, you know that. You know what sucks worse than VD? Mercury. If you drink mercury. Yeah. And we're like, oh God, he put mercury down your pee hole. Don't do that. Just yeah. So things changed in the early 19th century, largely as a result of Samuel's work. Homeopathy gave quacks an ideology and a School of Medicine to stand alongside. While old-fashioned quacks would rarely visit the same town twice because they were fundamentally frauds, homeopaths would continue to practice in the same area for years, even decades. People at the time recognize this change quote at Orthodox practitioner, remarked the old fashioned quack with his farrago of receipts, who seldom visited the same neighborhood but at very long intervals in order to avoid recognition. This class of practitioner is fast coming to a close. It was being replaced by literate and educated Empirics who read books. This remark signaled the emergence of a new form of unorthodox. Medicine, which formed the basis of what is today called complementary alternative medicine. So this is where we get goop from, you know, it used to be if you were like a fringe medical person, you wouldn't, you wouldn't stick around in town, you'd sell your snake oil and get out. Because of Hanuman, these people establish themselves as like, no, no, we're going to like, set up offices and try to do like we we see ourselves as legitimate practitioners. And that is all really humans need is like a different subconsciously we're like. It's like the marijuana doctor. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like the marijuana doctors. Samuel Hunman and his wife lived out there last years as popular socialites in France. The only hiccup in his golden years came when his wife was charged for practicing medicine without a license. But this does not seem to have led to a significant penalty. He died a millionaire in 1843 at the age of 89. So good life for him. God, yes. Yeah, that's a long *** way to live because he drank all that water staying hydrated. He was very hydrated. Lydra, Ted yes, the most hydrated man in this 1800s. Now Hunman went to his grave believing that his decision to dose himself with China Bark was a moment for human science on par with Newton being hit by an apple. And in some ways that is true. His violent reaction to quinine has forever altered the progress of medical science. Over the years, several medical professionals have tried unsuccessfully to recreate his findings. One Doctor Who did so representing the Board of Health, wrote chanchona, even in the preparation advocated by Hanman, did not cause fever in either healthy people or animals. So this is a little weird, right? No one has ever been able to recreate. The effects of Hunman's first groundbreaking experiment but during my research I did come across one fascinating theory that might just explain this mystery and kiesen on how homeopathy was really started, I found an article by Doctor William E Thomas, A Melbourne based physician and medical historian. He notes that quinine, the active ingredient in Cinchona, is only toxic and higher doses than Hanman took. However, there are some people who are allergic to quinine, and the symptoms are startlingly similar to what Hanman himself reported. It could be concluded then. That hanman might have suffered from an allergy to quinine. Which means that the fundamental foundation of homeopathy, like the idea that like cures like, is based on the fact that Doctor Hannan had a rare allergic reaction to quinine when he took the spark. Which is just the most human. Yeah. Element of this whole thing. Yeah. It's it's it's very understandable. Yeah. Wow. Now Billy Wayne in the sided of of of who he's let in. Yeah, Pandora's box. That is what part he's gonna be excited about. Who comes in here because Samuel Hanman an imperfect person. You can criticize them some ways. Not really a *******. No, not really a *******. Just a just a a dude who made some logical leaps that were not justified by the actual evidence, but that are understandable in the context of the time and then really just kind of took some. Confirmation bias. After that, a lot of confirmation bias. Young French wife, you know that's distracting. Yep. Then it would be very distracting. In Part 2, we are going to talk about some of the actual ******** the horrible harvest and corpses. That is Samuel Hannemann's modern day legacy. So, lot of dead babies in Part 2. Of course there is. Yeah, yeah, now Billy Wayne. I feel like the right way to break up this game of tennis we're gonna play. Yeah, I think we should go to five total points, and I think we should do the first two points at the end of this episode, and then we'll have the last three, assuming there's any pieces of this VHS tape left. All right. Yes, thank you, Sophie. Sophie knows that when you grab a machete, you do it by the blade. That is just don't hurt. Anderson, please. Alright. Sophie, Are you ready to ref? Yeah, OK. Aye. Anderson, I'm going to surf first. OK, let me put this now. I don't know how to play tennis. I don't think, I don't think this is how to play tennis. Now. Let's see. Alright, see if I can. I do know one thing, which is that I'm supposed to say zero serving 0, right? That's how it starts. You can. All right. No, isn't it love? No, love is 15. No, love is 0, isn't it? No, 15. It's it's it's. I don't ****. I'm gonna throw the copy of Basic Instinct. Yeah, well I'm gonna try to hit it at you. OK? And Ohh you hit it. I hit it backwards and didn't work out. Alright, alright, alright. Get out of the way of it, I think. What does that count as? I think that was a point at the back, all right. Alright, it's it's 11. Yours is. I'm not. I think, yeah. Alright. Alright. Yeah, we'll try 15 all. Oh yeah, look at that. Was a good one, that one. It's holding up pretty well. You got to give it credit. Alright, Billy. Alright. That that's it's too, too. We're tied, we're tied. And the the deep, the VHS of Basic Instinct is holding up surprisingly pretty, pretty well. Let's take it out of its case, see how we're. Ohh Nope. It's been cut so much that it is. Is it in there? It's now in there. Yeah, I think we actually wedged it into the the paper. That's awesome. Nice job, guys. Nice job. Paul verhoeven. Great director. Billy, you want to plug your puggles BWD tour.com/tour is all my live dates. I'm coming to Atlanta. Seattle, Portland. Eugene, Cincinnati, Huntington, WV. Birmingham, AL. See Billy Wayne live. Come see us a variety of bladed instruments, I'm sure, and continue listening to this podcast and also find it on the Internet at behindthebaskets.com or at Bastarde pod on Twitter and Instagram. There's also another podcast that exists. Buy T-shirts on teepublic. What's that podcast called? Ohh, it's called the worst year ever and it's about politics. Yeah, wow, that sounds so dumb. Dumb. Dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb. Dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb. Anyway, TuneIn on Thursday to see who wins the game of what is definitely not tennis. Not tennis, not at all. No, no Andersons were harmed in the making of this podcast. I'm just saying I can't guarantee. I can get this thing on fire. No, Robert, we're not lighting it on fire. Hello, I'm Erica Kelly from the podcast Southern Fried True crime, and if you want to go from podcast fan to podcast host, do what I did and check out spreaker from iheart. I was working in accounting and hating it. Then after just 18 months of podcasting with Spreaker, I was able to quit my day job. Follow your podcasting dreams. Let's break our handle the hosting, creation, distribution, and monetization of your podcast. Go to spreaker.com. That's spreaker.com. Want to say I don't know less? Listen to stuff you should know more. Join host Josh and Chuck on the podcast packed with fascinating discussions about science, history, pop culture, and more episodes. Dive into topics like was the lost, city of Atlantis Real? And how does pizza work? Say goodbye to I don't know, because after listening to stuff you should know. You will listen to stuff you should know on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey there, it's Ebony Monet, your co-host for the San Diego Zoo's Amazing Wildlife podcast. In this special episode, we're speaking with Doctor Jane Goodall about the fascinating journey that led to her impactful behavioural discoveries on chimpanzees. It wasn't until one of the chimpanzees began to lose his fear of me, but I began to really make discoveries that actually shook the scientific world. Listen to amazing wildlife on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.