Behind the Bastards

There’s a reason the History Channel has produced hundreds of documentaries about Hitler but only a few about Dwight D. Eisenhower. Bad guys (and gals) are eternally fascinating. Behind the Bastards dives in past the Cliffs Notes of the worst humans in history and exposes the bizarre realities of their lives. Listeners will learn about the young adult novels that helped Hitler form his monstrous ideology, the founder of Blackwater’s insane quest to build his own Air Force, the bizarre lives of the sons and daughters of dictators and Saddam Hussein’s side career as a trashy romance novelist.

Part One: Robert and Cody Watch Jordan B. Peterson's New TV Show

Part One: Robert and Cody Watch Jordan B. Peterson's New TV Show

Tue, 01 Nov 2022 10:00

Robert is joined by Cody Johnston to discuss Jordan Peterson's new TV series, 'Dragons, Monsters & Men.'

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What if you had the chance to change the past? September 27th, 1996? And create the future you've always dreamed of. Einhorn's epic productions and I Heart Radio bring you a new 12-part scripted audio time travel adventure. Join Nikki and her friends as they travel back to the 90s and change the past to save our future. Listen to Nikki Fix's Time Mix on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Ophira Eisenberg. I'm a comedian and a parent. Uh, the absurdity of telling jokes late at night and then waking up early with a small child in the morning. I have a new podcast called Parenting is a joke. I'll talk to other funny people who are also parents. Will we be laughing? Will we be crying? Find out by listening to Parenting is a joke on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey guys, I'm Sammy J and we're back with season four of my podcast Let's Be Real with Sammy J. As part of Gen Z, I love that my generation is inspiring change and I'm so excited to talk with more celebrities, activists and influencers to find out what they're passionate about, how they're changing the world or helping others feel us alone. Season four is going to be exciting, revealing and empowering. Listen to Let's Be Real with Sammy J on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Ah, what's abusive my friendship with Cody. I'm Robert Evans, host of Behind the Bastards, podcast about terrible people with my good friend Cody Johnston Cody, how are you doing? Hello there, I'm spectacular. I couldn't be better and I won't be judging from no. You're a little I know about what we're going to talk about. You're going to have a terrible day today, Cody. Cody, you are the host of some more news and the co-host of the podcast with a similar but not exactly the same name. YouTube sensation, it would be fair to say. And my friend of many years. Cody, do you have familiar with the concept of love languages? I am. Yeah. It's this idea that people, there's different people express love in different ways and a major part of having a healthy relationship is understanding the way that the people in your life express love and communicating to them the way that you do so that you don't misunderstand each other and you appreciate when the other person tries to share with you the way they feel. And I've come to recognize over the years Cody that you and I have a particular love language. It started a couple of years ago when you began telling me about Dr. Jordan B. Peterson. That all culminated in me putting together like a three hour podcast series about the life of Dr. Jordan B. Peterson. And then a couple of years later you put together a three hour video about everything Jordan Peterson has ever said and done. Yes. And and I just watched that Cody and now I am about to sit down with you and I am about to share as part of my love language some more about Dr. B. Peterson. This is what we call romance. This is romance. There's nothing pure. So thank you. I received. I received. I believe I started this by saying, Cody, I love you. I'm sorry. Instantly apologetic as soon as I popped off. Cody, you know Mr. Peterson, Dr. Mr. Peterson. And you know, I'm sure that he has recently started a new television show. A hit new TV show. Everybody's talking about it on the daily wire. Call it TV show. It's like a show. It's like a show. It has the. It's like a show. Is it going to describe? Well, it is a show for sure. Like it contains the totemic sigils that will associated as being like a television show. So like if you were like the things that like the the the representative artifacts that signify that something is a TV show are present in this thing, which is not a TV show. It's on the daily wires website. Not even daily wire plus on their website. No, or is it? Yeah, you have whatever they're streaming account. I don't know. Cody, I'm not going to tell you how I got this show. You don't need to. It's okay. I understand. I. It's called dragons, monsters and men. I know. I know. I know. I think you know, there's any chance at all that like the name was picked in part because they're like, well, the new game of Thrones and the ring shows are 100% 100% 110%. I think so because the intro. Like you say that like you watch the new Lord of the Ring show, Cody. I haven't seen it yet. It's pretty good. I like it. But the intro of it is very clearly doing a game of Thrones. Yeah. Like that kind of like where it's sort of a kind of abstract representation using like symbols and stuff and whatever. It's fine. But they're doing the same thing in dragons, monsters and men to open the series. Yeah. Well, so for listeners, a screen is being shared with me and the first frame of this show is on screen. And I instantly believe you and agree with you and know like it's not even I it's not even a letter I'm looking at I'm looking at the shape of a part of a letter from the intro. Yeah. Yeah. They're doing came of Thrones. Yeah. There is a smoky and dusty and like yeah. Let's just let's play the start of this and you at home will hear it and then we'll kind of describe what we're seeing after you heard it. But I think both are valuable. Cody, I'm sorry. I love you. Oh, it's starting yet. Sophie. Oh. Wait. Cody. What? Hey now. They can do this. Come on. All right. All right. All right. Let's pause it and talk about it. Is it just him at a chair? It's just him and a chair. But so so what we see in that intro is like a bunch of they kind of look like Stone Age glyphs a mix of like stuff that might be Runex shapes. I'm not a runes expert. Maybe they're actual runes. But like fake ruins in like a video game. I'm going to guess fake ruins. You know, there's like animal glyphs. There's like an arrow that's going up like progress and then turns down probably because the world started doing a gender. Yeah. Yeah. The room for wokeness. Yeah. The woke ruin. God. And then when you heard that, and then that a bunch of fire blew on the screen and followed by the logo dragons monsters and men. Dragons are your challenges. Monsters and the demons. You have to slay in manner. Wow. It's like you've spent dozens of hours watching Dr. Jordan Peterson talk about this ideas. It's just like. It was basic symbolism and shit. All right. Yeah. It is it is Cody. It is kind of. I think Jordan Peterson would have been a really inspirational like sixth grade creative writing teacher. 100% I've always thought like, Hey man, go out write a book. Not your weird books right a novel. Write a fiction book. And like use all your ideas and your archetypes and your symbolism and and say a story that you think should be told with all those ideas. And then maybe people will finally see the what you believe. I think something different is going to happen. Cody. I agree. So the episode one is titled What Makes a Man? And once the title crawl finishes, we're presented with Jordan Peterson wearing a nice fitted blue suit and sitting in a leather armchair in a library. There's a large like our glass style clock that's about four feet behind him. And what's interesting to me is how all the production value and intensity they've tried to build up at the start of the process of episode dissipates the instant Jordan starts talking. And I'm going to have Sophie click play to display that. I can't. I'm sorry. I love you. There are multiple. Let's say competence and authority multiple, especially in a sophisticated society. And so you're fortunate if you're good at one or two things. Most of the ways you could be competent and generous. You're just not that good at. So first of all, I would say don't be too disheartened, especially if you're young. Okay. Pause it. So I listeners. What's just happened on screen is that obviously you can hear him talking. It's just him sitting in the chair. And after like 20 seconds, the screen splits. And we watch a close up of his face next to a slightly further out shot of his face, both at the same time. Really off putting in this. It's because they know they know what they've done. They know it's really through. They threw God knows how much money at this guy like millions of dollars. I assume probably millions of dollars. A lot of like they're just that's why he literally said this out loud in one of his videos. Like yeah, they gave me a lot of money. And more power to go for it. But so they know they've done. But ultimately and the daily wire plus wants to be the programming. Like they want to anti-woke. Like the TV that you don't get on HBO, which we secretly love that kind of thing. And so they've thrown all this money at it. But ultimately what they bought was Jordan Peterson doing his lectures, which is just a guy on stage. That's it. So they have to make it seem somewhat like cinematic or exciting or visually interesting at all. And so they have two cameras follow him and do his blitz. Cody, Cody, I'm going to give you a spoiler. At a certain point there's going to be three. I was like waiting like a little at a certain point. They do like reenactments or like they feel like no third. It is never anything but Jordan Peterson on screen. Okay, here's here's here's here's okay. Here's my slight feedback here. So he's worked very hard like the hair is perfectly slicked back. He's chosen, you know, the coat. Why is his tie crooked and why is his shirt ring two notes? Those were my clear. Clearly tried super hard to have this like put together image. But yet your shirt is wrinkled and your eyes crooked. What is happening? Also, what is that? They didn't like my like I don't want to show shakes and possibly the ones. I just got to say it's the Benz. You know, plus houses and so on. I wear a very crumpled suit and tie on my show. I do not own a suit or tag on purpose. But you're fabulous Cody. Thank you so much. Well, like he seems like the kind of guy who'd be like well, no iron my shirt. That's my show. My nicest outfit is an open hoodie with a Bart Simpson goal for commemorative t-shirt. It's I mean clearly it spells Saddam Hussein Huskin. He's like put a lot of effort into it. Like he's gone through the trouble of calling up Gavin Newsop and being like what hairl jail do you use? And using all the hair gel and but yet crooked tie wrinkled shirt. Just very interesting to note shall we continue Robert also Sophie real quick get used to the hands. Yeah, I know. I know. I know. He loves the little magic fingers. Spirit fingers. If you want. I'm sure they're spending on this and for all the production value that existed in the first 28 seconds, which is going to be the most exciting thing we see today. I think the episodes I don't even think they're scripts to these like you said it's just like they filmed a lecture. This isn't I've seen his lectures and they are normally like he's wrong about things but he knows how to give a competent lecture right where he like builds to a point and the journey as an impact on the audience. That's why he's been successful. That's not what we're having here. There's no nothing he's building to he is just sitting in a chair and kind of talking almost aimlessly. Yeah, I want just listen to this next great. I will so my prediction. So this seems like what you're describing is. Like you know you've written a lot about him. I recently released a three hour video about him in doing so you have to watch a lot of YouTube videos of him and in doing that your algorithm gets completely fucked. And so if you're like scrolling like YouTube shorts or something here's like oh here's this 50 second clip of Jordan Peterson on a podcast rambling about whatever and it seems like that's what this experience will be just like scrolling through these like 50 second clips of him like random thought about this. I can say this about monsters and then just sort of like yeah, yeah, they just kind of sat down and let him go and you can kind of see in the editing and then gradually how the off screen questions are kind of directing him that I think they recognize that made a mistake about 10 minutes into this. But I want to play you the next set of clips here. Excellent. Sorry, I love you. And part of the problem is the question what should I do with my life is not a very good question because it's sort of like. Tell me about everything. It's just too much. What do you do with life while you say you do many things. Okay, what are those things because I don't know what to do incredible advice. What other people that appear to give their lives significance and meaning. And this is bears on the issue of responsibility. Well, most people want to have or do have an intimate partner so if you don't have one. And split see his hand. How do you work? We don't work on that by going to find the person that's right for you. It's like who the hell are you and what makes you think that even if you found the person that was right for you, they wouldn't take one look at you and run away screaming. What are you talking about? I don't know. He's just, because he's like circling really banal advice. Like what he can't get to. In the roughly a minute that we played 50-ish seconds, the actual point he has made is that like life includes a lot of things. And it's you shouldn't try to find someone to fall in love with. Right. Like life is complicated. You got a narrow down your goals. And like, but all the point he's the broader point he's making is that like. Young men shouldn't seek to find someone to complete them. They should become the person that like is, you know, which is fine advice. That's good advice focus on yourself. Right. But of course. Same time because also he's basic. He talks like really contradictory too because he's saying it as if like, well why do you want to like, oh, get it find an intimate partner who's like right for you? Well, what makes you think that they're going to like you? So like he's talking about it in this dismissive way where it's like don't even try. Yeah. And then he's coming back to you need to work on yourself before you do that in order to what? Because ultimately what he's saying is work on yourself in order to be of value to a partner. So he's still encouraging this end goal. He's just saying like, yeah, take some time and you do work on yourself. Yeah. It's just such a weird way to say these things. It's it's it's pointlessly long. And after me and during for a little while longer, Peterson announces that the primary thing that young men have going for them is youth and possibility, which is what sets them apart from the olds who have money and the ability to wear nice suits while seated in a library, fun and by oil and gas billionaire investments. But don't have as much energy or as much time. Peterson makes the claim that if you're young and poor, you still have an unbelievable source of wealth because you're young. And obviously no one would change being young for being decrepit and rich. Now this seems to ignore that an awful lot of rich people are in excellent shape and stay that way for a long time because it's very easy to eat well and seek medical care if you have money. I see good good stuff, Jordan. He's done this before about like wealth and stuff where it's like, oh, you know, everybody has problems. You know, it's not rich. You're rich or you're poor. You know, you're rich or poor. You know, everybody gets sick. It's like, yeah, but but how you what do you do if you get sick and you're rich? Like it's so it's like people looking at Keanu who is like pushing 60 and being like, wow, he looks incredible. I'm sure Keanu Reeves, the first thing he would say is, yeah, because I have tens of millions of dollars. Yeah, exactly. It's like that video of Rob Mac on it's all about describing his how he got in shape. It's like, yeah, it's impossible. If you have unlimited money, then it's very easy. If you don't spend time with anybody and you have to do, yeah, silly. Very silly. Now, most of what Peterson is trying to get out here is like his normal 12 rules for life. Shit, just not at all very well organized. And it's certainly not yet offensive advice, although he's ignoring things in a way that is kind of offensive. But it's true that if you're young and healthy, that is worth a lot, right? Youth and health are very valuable things. Time is valuable. Of course. Again, yeah, it's like this thing he does where it's like, what you're saying, like if you shave everything away, yeah, it's a fine point that a lot of people make on like Airbnb art. Exactly. And but he's how he's in this like monsters and dragons and men. It's like, well, you're just sitting in it. He said nothing, nothing that he said that's right is something you couldn't find on the wall of an Airbnb in Glendale, California. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. And it's funny because he starts at this like very basic point that like, yes, health youth and health are valuable. But like a lot of his platitudes in this episode, it starts to spin out like tires losing traction in mud and it's very funny to listen to. So I'm going to have you play this next clip. Are you good at anything? And if that answer that is no, well, how about you start practicing being good at something? Pick one thing. Well, what? Well, not nothing. Pick something. Maybe it's a video game. Surely sage advice, Dr. Peterson. Talk like a guy who's ever talked to a person before. Yeah. And also, and I have to say this is, and I'll probably have to point this out every 30 seconds. This is something he says all the time in every interview he's ever been in being asked about advice for people. This like, pick something and do it. I've heard it 90 different times in 90 different interviews in 90 different like alpha brain academy clip on YouTube. Why did they give this guy so much money for this show? Yes, acquiring skills is useful in life. It's just like bizarre. Of course. Yeah. So he goes on to say that getting good at anything helps you learn how to get good at other things, which is true, but not in a way that really means anything. Like, if you get good at a video game, which he actually suggests here, that probably won't actually help you get good endurance running. Even though you could like boil it down, be like, well, both require you to do something over and over again until you get better at it. But like playing video games is pleasurable and physically not difficult on your body, whereas distance running is really difficult on your body and makes you uncomfortable for extended periods of time. And so the fact that you got good at a video game probably won't help you with your endurance running. Not that there aren't people who are good at both, but the fact that like skills are not universally applicable. Right. One doesn't necessarily lead to the other. And like running, you know, running might make you better at a video game because like exercise is good for your brain and like your focus and attention and things. And that's what you need when you play a video game. If you play a video game, it might help you with like pattern recognition and certain things like that. But like, you can't just like pick two things and say do this and you'll get better at the other. Yeah, it's also like, I think there's actually a fundamental flaw in the logic that like learning how to get good at one thing means you'll get good at other things because as a general rule, the things that people get best at first to the things that they're like in client towards because of basic interest. And an awful lot of actual success is getting good at things that you're not inclined to, but you need to build up some level of confidence and because like a lot of life is just kind of unpleasant. And you gotta do things you don't like and get good at them so you can do them well and get them over with. Exactly. Like if you love basketball and you hate numbers, the fact that the skills that that made you good at basketball might not make you good at paying your taxes, which is why people who become professional sports players generally hire professional accountants. Right? Yeah. Yeah. But whatever. Anyway, continue Jordan, the Peterson. So the next thing he goes into is he talks about how he when he was a young man, the thing that he became good at first was washing dishes, which I don't know that he actually did this, but he's claiming this because it makes him seem like a man of the people. He has claimed this before as well. I am not certain that he ever did this job, but a lot of people do. So let's just hear him out. And so what else do you have to do to be a good dishwasher? Learn the techniques. Stay on, stay on your toes, volunteer to work when other people don't show up. Show an interest in learning to cook, get along with the waitresses, maybe get along with the customers act like an adult and all of that's excellent practice for all sorts of things you're going to do later. Now, Cody, what do you know? Have you known a lot of people who did dish washing specifically not just like their job included dish washing, but like people who's like a work in restaurants and like I've done dish washing and I've known many dishwashers at the job. Is it not? Would you say generally accepted as good advice that you keep the dishwashers the fuck away from the customers? Oh, yeah, I mean, we don't need that. But also you keep the dishwashers happy and like you sure it's like chefs. You don't want the chef. You talk to the customers. Yeah, you go in the room, you get sweaty, you turn on your music, whatever it is. A lot of cocaine in the bathroom. Like it's fine. I don't know. It's also like it's like not like it depends on the restaurant too, you know. Yeah, they're everywhere. If there's like very friendly like customer relations between like workers and customers, that's fine. It's a weird thing to plop in there. I think he's just trying to he's trying to give he's trying to give general life advice, which he always does that everybody could give and make it specific to this one example, which what he does all the time, right? Yeah, it's good to like get to know this person and this type of person and go out in the world and do this. And he's just using dish washing as an example. Yeah, he's generally using it as an example. And I mean, as a jet like yeah, whatever. I don't think that the dishwashers want to talk to the customers. No, no, like part a big part of managing any successful enterprise where there are customers is limiting who has to deal with customers because that's the thing that sucks the most, right? Because they're the worst people in the world. Like the last part like you you want as many people as possible to not have to talk to the customers directly because fuck those. Yeah, exactly. And I just full so quick note. If we're if listeners, if we're listening to a clip and suddenly you hear like a snicker or a laugh, a gaffa, a little chortal. Yeah, it might be because of what he's saying. If you think what he's saying is funny. It's probably because they just did the split screen thing again. And it's so jarring and off putting and it surprises me every time because why are they doing it? It's so weird. It seems like they're doing it at random. There's no rhyme or reason to it. It's just like, well, we need to do the split screen thing again. And I can't wait for it to be three Peterson's on screen at once. Now Cody, a lot of evidence shows that of all of the jobs in the United States, the highest level of substance abuse is pretty much working in a restaurant, particularly like working in the back of a restaurant. And so as Anthony Bourdain, very eloquently wrote about like that's just a pretty durable fact. And I think for the restaurant is cocaine, back of the restaurant is all drugs. I'm going to be honest with you, the only reason I might believe that Jordan Peterson did what he said and he claims he went from being a dishwasher to a short order cook is that I can imagine him sitting in the back of a restaurant doing lines of a variety of binzos and stimulants and, you know, whatever, whatever he could get his hands on. Look at the man. Look at that. Look at that shirt. Tell me, tell me that man hasn't tried to straighten the lines in a rain, maybe anything. I can't tell you that. Good guy. Dr. Jordan Peterson. Anyway, he's on the verge of sounding like a normal person here until we get to this line. You know, it's not intellectual work and that you're not dealing with abstractions, although it can still be complex. That's why we don't have dish washing robots, by the way. No. Cody. Quick quiz. Good, sir. Do we in fact have dish washing robots? Yeah, I feel like maybe if you just cut off the word robot. Yeah, we stopped and we didn't use the word robot for it, but we have washing machines and I feel like almost everyone listening has a machine that washes dishes. You know, not all places have dishwashers, but sure everybody knows that it exists. Yeah, again, obviously the point he's making is that like, yeah, even with all that machines can do, if you're like running a professional restaurant, you're going to have someone whose job is keeping the dishes clean because machines can't do everything. Right. And like sometimes you run the dishwasher and you're like, oh, the dishwasher didn't work. I got to use my human hands that have certain ways they can move and they can get in there and clean better. It's so funny because like the most famous labor saving device on the planet is dishwasher. Like it's it's it's it says if he you know, if we didn't know that clearly Game of Thrones fan, if it was like the only TV show this man has seen is the Jetsons and like he's facing everything off of Rosie the robot. I mean, yeah, like there's there's Flintstones and then there's Jetsons and there's like nothing in between. Yeah, there's nothing in between. But even the fun stuff like dishwashing like what birds and stuff right. Mm-hmm. They should have called this show Flintstones Jetsons and do and Scooby-Doo's or I guess we'll. No, they could just have had it just on drag and tail drag and tail. We ever get that big ex on sponsorship to to fund this podcast and I become a millionaire. I'm going to pay Jordan Peterson a fortune to watch old episodes of the of Scooby-Doo when they have the Harlem Globe prodders on and like weep over the Jungian profundity of sweet Kyle sweet Laya whatever's bucket name was. Oh, that's a waste of money. He'll do that for free. He'll do that for free. Love doing that shit Peterson. What do you think about the time the Harlem Globe trotters solve the mystery of old man McGregor's haunted air B and B? I don't know whatever old man a lot has nothing right he's this sort of this dragon inside you and you have to you unmask it and it turns out it's yourself because we are all our own dragons. This font is. It's a step above paparious but not much not really. I'm sorry. What did you just call that? Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I'm saying. What what did you want? I don't even think this is a step above that though. I don't even think it's weird like cuts in it. It's like it's trying to seem like very like royal but also has like a weird slime thing going to it. No, no. No. And the slime is for the curves of letters only. Oh, season. Geez and it's like a little slug. Yeah, I don't. There's some slime to it but it's not like that exciting to listen to people describe the ones but yeah, this is the one. The E is too lazy easy to mistake for an L F at distance. Anyway, whatever. Fuck this font. Fuck this one. Robert is time for you to do an ad break. You know who will fuck a font? Oh, for sure. They'll get their dick right in there. In fact, every time you buy one of the products sponsored on this show, our sponsors purchase irreplaceable ancient Egyptian papyrus and then have sex with it. That's a guarantee. So glad you learned how to pronounce that word with every purchase you make irreplaceable human knowledge is lost forever. We promise that and nothing else. I hope it's another gold ad. Me too. Okay, I'm Nikki fix and my first step towards my dreams of musical stardom is playing at the iconic Millennium roller rink in Old Bridge, New Jersey. There's only one small problem. The landlord sold the ring. But then something incredible happened. Nikki, what's going on with that guitar? What's happening? Where are we? Wait, look at this. September 27th, 1996. This is our chance to fix the present. Einhorn's epic productions and I Heart Radio, the team who brought the illegal lit, daughters of DC and see you in your nightmares, bring you a new 12-part scripted audio time travel adventure. Join Nikki and her friends as they travel back to the 90s and change the past to save our future. Listen to Nikki fixes time mix on the I Heart Radio app Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast. Hey guys, I'm Sammy J and we're back with season four of my podcast Let's Be Real with Sammy J. As part of Gen Z, I love that my generation is inspiring change. And I'm so excited to talk with more celebrities, activists and influencers to find out what they're passionate about, how they're changing the world or helping others feel as low. I've got Joel McHale and Dule Hill. I want to keep learning and growing in my in my art forms, but also give myself the space and the grace to know that it's a process. Yeah, singer Ash, you're like giving me a moment to have perspective over the last how many years of my life. Isn't it cool to see how far you come and grown? Yeah, it's really, yeah, I appreciate you for giving me a moment. Thanks. Other guests include Megan trainer, podcaster Monica Padman, artist Lindsay Sterling, entrepreneur and mental health advocate Danielle Pearson and so many more. Listen to Let's Be Real with Sammy J on the I Heart Radio app Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, I'm comedian and parent Ophira Eisenberg. You may recognize my voice from MPR or the Moth. I have a new podcast called Parenting is a joke. Every episode I talk with a comedian about their careers and about being a parent. Guests include actress, producer and writer Catherine Reitman. I have a rule that my kids are not allowed to be friends with kids with my parents. I'm like, enjoy them at school and stand up comedian Chris Getherd. I was so cool like five years ago. I had my own TV shot subway posters with my face and now I'm picking a bobby pin out of another human being s***. We talk about teeth, teen angst, Nietzsche, workaholism, eating sticks and debating whether or not our six year olds should watch the Godfather. Listen to Parenting is a joke on the I Heart Radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Also, your kid doesn't think you're funny. Learn more hard truths on Parenting is a joke. Oh, we're back. Boy, I sure feel like the libraries of Alexandria was just burned for my my own sexual gratification. How about you, Cody? I was going to describe it exactly like that. Wow. Wow. We're it's like we're united by epigenetic collective unconsciousness. That's where this all is. Anyway, whatever. We believe everything Jordan Peterson, believe after Peterson goes on another you advance for a little while. He says very little of substance and mostly just asks rhetorical questions about self improvement stuff like can you improve your relationship with your father? Can you educate yourself and then we get this very odd moment. All right. Yeah. The draw of temptation, drug and alcohol use in particular sexual temptation as well. Oh, do you do anything that's remote? Oh, Cody, how would you describe that little play that again? So play it again. When he says, oh, he does this like it's almost like a computer buffering like his his the thing that he said just sort of like caused a fucking hard drive skipping his little. All right. One more time. The draw of temptation, drug and alcohol use in particular sexual temptation as well. Oh, do you do anything that's remote? Like he says he says, say, oh, and then cast his eyes down. There's almost a little shiver across his body as he goes, oh, it's very weird. He's a speaker. I mean, I'm sure it's made him millions of dollars because there is something that like you just I I spent too long watching this and just go fuck is what are you doing? Get across here. It's cryptic. Yeah. Anyway, so he does it. So what is he land on? Can you resist temptation or not? He never really finishes. He just glitches. And then from this point, he starts to get angrier and almost abusive. Yes. Oh, he's doing it. Yeah. Remember what a party. Do you go to church? You know, I don't go to church because, you know, their beliefs don't match minds. Like who the hell cares about your beliefs? You're like 60. You don't even have beliefs. And if you think it's like you're right in it and the Catholic church is wrong. Well, good luck with that attitude. And that is a church example or a political party doesn't need repair because all institutions are always falling apart and corrupt. That's that's a story is oldest time. That's the evil uncle. But good. Yeah. Fix it up. Wait a second. Yeah. Wait. Did he say fix it up? Go fix it up. I thought you're not allowed to do that. Yeah. Well, that's exact. None of this makes any sense because number one, are you saying that like people should just like you you have to join a church, which he's clearly saying. But also you shouldn't criticize it. But also instead of leaving it if it doesn't match with your beliefs, you should change it. But also you don't have beliefs. So and it's like, okay, you disagree. Don't what are you going to change it to because you don't believe anything. And what are you saying people should do? Are you saying that like they should all become Catholics or or that you should just join whatever church is closest and not question it. But fix it if it doesn't align with your beliefs. But you can't have beliefs yet because you're just a kid. It's, it's nonsense. It's like it's it's just like there's nothing useful in that mess of what a contradiction. It's also of all of of all of the things to pick as an organization that you shouldn't criticize on real wrong. The Catholic Church. Yeah, sure. It's not incredible. Yeah, thanks Jordan. I I also love his it's one of his ticks where he like says a thing. And sometimes it's like some ridiculous statement. Sometimes it's a completely reasonable thing. And he's like, well, you know, good luck with that. He just sort of like dismisses it as though like that's the argument. For example, it seems like after the Catholic Church, systemically sexually trafficked and abused children and pushed for theocratic laws in Ireland that got huge numbers of women killed and maimed as a result of things like a topic pregnancies. I wish people in very large numbers left the church. And things are better. Well, you know, that's the evil uncle, right? The evil uncle is the like your evil uncle, the Catholic priest. Yeah, I mean, not far off. But like, yeah, so when do you because his whole thing is like, don't. Are you so you're like you're 16. You have no beliefs. And so go to any church. And if it disagrees with you, then you should change it. But also you're not allowed to want to change anything unless your like life is perfect and like in perfect order. So you're it's not yet because you're 16. So like don't do anything. Don't leave your house, I guess, but do to go to church. I think that's the most consistently frustrating to be about Peterson is he does shit like drop like the evil uncle. And he does it in such a way as he's like he's trying to impress you with by naming these archetypes and like referencing the memorize. Exactly. And it's there's for an example of kind of like how to do this and not be a complete. I don't know some people will disagree with this. But like what he's doing is not fundamentally all that different. If you sit down and listen to Dan Harmon talk about like the story circle, which is basically him taking the fucking heroes journey and putting it into a way that you can pretty easily turn into scripts. Right. That's all it is. It's not like distills it down to six or eight steps. Exactly. Dan Harmon plenty of things to criticize about the man. But all he's actually he's not trying to say there's any sort of like psychic resonance with that. He's being like this is a very simple replica. But way to tell a story in a way that that people can can grasp on to right. There's a reason it's successful. And people like stories that have this. If you go you do the thing you change and then yeah. Peterson is that rather than the evil uncle just like being a thing that's in some movies and TV shows because it's easy. I don't know. It's something that people tend to like grasp on to. It's just kind of an easy way to to tell a story. Right. Like it's. Well, right. He's talking scar in the lion king. It's not a complex story. There's not a ton going on there. But it works. And like, but Peterson is taking it as if and because this is like a trope that is broadly functional in storytelling that is meant for a popular audience. It is indicative of something fundamental to human nature. Right. As opposed to like, you know, first of all, if you see a pattern, we humans love to see patterns and what. Undo emphasis and importance on patterns, even if they are it's not like a significant pattern. But like what he's talking about most of the time in this respect is like just stereotypes. Yeah. Like if you take like you said like the lion king or hamlet or whatever. So scar the evil uncle. If scar had a kid. Ah, Mufasa, the kind uncle archetype. Like it's literally like it's just these interchangeable things. The qualities described in like he's like, the the crown. Make it a man and you change the name. And it's like, yeah, I don't know. Yeah, all of this can work. And it's like helpful for people in situations like. All of these archetypes that he treats as if they're like something sacred written into the back of the human soul are just shortcuts to like very easily putting together a fucking script for like a popular like specifically for a popular fucking movie. That's like most of the modern adaptations of this shit. Like it's not none of this is like none of this is particularly resident. And you can tell that for a fact that the stories that are like most popular are often the ones that break some of these rules like they're not actually fundamental to good storytelling. They're just simple. Yeah. Yeah. It's not necessarily going to be the most compelling or interesting story if you use all these archetypes or this like pattern because it's most story. Training wheels, they're training wheels. If you're starting out read writing stories or if you're getting lost in the weeds, it can be an easy way to like get something put together. And then you can do a better thing next time. But I don't know whatever I get frustrated when people talk about fucking archetypes like this. Well, so when you're talking about like this and like applying it to like element like fundamental like institutions and elements of society where it's like. These are different conversations. Yeah. Like fucking the evil uncle is a bad guy in a script because a script needs a bad guy because conflict is fun. The Catholic Church is bad because they raped a bunch of kids and covered it up. And that's a reason why maybe you would not believe anything else they have to say. Right. Like maybe it stems from certain aspects of their like core beliefs. I don't know. Yeah, maybe there's fundamental things about the structure of an organization like the Catholic Church that are abusive, but Jordan Peterson fucking loves hierarchy. Right. And just like any inevitable, the inevitability of everything, right? Yeah. Like anyway, if an institution is corrupt, it's because all institutions become corrupt. Like ultimately. It's not a problem with anything about the institution is yes, corruption that that happens. Yeah, except for in my institutions that I like. Like the next section of the video asked Peterson to define what makes a man. And this is the first point at which I think someone like put together like maybe after the first 10 minutes of this were recorded, which probably took three days. Somebody like jotted down some fucking notes into something resembling a script to try to put a scaffolding on this motherfucker. Here we go. Yeah, definition of man. Ah, what am I a biologist? But as it happens, I am a biologist. So no, you're not. No, no, you're not. I felt like you're gonna have a reaction to that. He is absolutely not a fucking biologist. Oh my god. You can say that you like I like. Oh my god. Scientists frustrating this. A physicist wouldn't say I'm a biologist because you like know a lot about biology. Yeah, it's it's very frustrating because like yes, theoretically, like he has a PhD in clinical psychology. There are clinical psychologists to do biology, right? Because some of them are new neuroscience. Your element of it exactly biology, but that's not what he does. That's not what he does. And that's not that's just not how people in the scientific community talk. Yeah, like he says this about everything. Like it's it. If you it's fun, he would say like he would say if he's describing like what the parade of principle as it like it relates to black holes or whatever. He would literally say I'm an astrophysicist. No, no, no, no, no, you maybe you know about astrophysics and you have like knowledge in that field. But no like actual like reasonable like respectable scientists would just make a claim like that. There's so wild. That's just that out loud. You go in your three hour video about Dr. Jordan Peterson about how he's fundamentally wrong about lobsters and the shit he says about like narrow transmitters and lobsters. He's wrong about a lot of important things, including that time. He went cold turkey off of benzos by going to some weird clinic in Russia and nearly got himself killed. But I want to stick to stuff that he claims that he makes in the video to prove that he's if he is a biologist. I want to sorry, I just have to like give him a little like in good faith, you know, reasonable doubt. Some people's talking this way like what you're saying, you're not saying I'm a biologist. I believe in biology and I have knowledge of it and I approach things from a biologist perspective is what he's trying to say but that but he wasn't precise in his speech. He's not at all precise in his speech and he's also about to be really wrong because after this he goes on a little rant about how some people are charitable but they're not hard working or practical. So they just wind up giving away other people's money and that's bad. What he says that the ideal thing to be the essence of masculinity in fact, this is what he because he's again this section is where he's trying to define a man. He says that the essence of masculinity is productive generosity which seems to he seems to define as actually being a dick because he doesn't think that like generosity means being good to people. He thinks it's like it's this weirder concept about how well sometimes generosity is like being mean and withholding resources from people who are going to squander them right. And as he's doing this, he attacks the concept of agreeableness and I want to play you this part of the episode Cody because this is we can nail into some science here. Yeah, we can end up basically an empathy dimension has no correlation whatsoever with success in enterprise business creative domains. In fact among managers agreeableness looks like it's slightly negatively correlated with success because hyper agreeable managers can't say no, they can't discipline their employees, they can't send limits and they're susceptible to manipulation. So. Well, Cody that sounds like something that's falsifiable right that is a that is a true or a false statement that he just made we can actually dig into research. Yeah, it seems like you could look that up. Yeah, and it turns out we're really lucky here. There was a massive meta analysis of studies published on quote agreeableness on and its consequences just this year. Researchers Michael Wilmot and Dennis ones analyzed 3,900 studies and falling 1.9 million participants. So pretty big meta analysis right. They concluded quote overall the trait the trait has effects in a desirable direction for 93% of variables. Wow. Professor Wilmot seemed adamant that not only is Peterson wrong about the value of agreeableness, he's specifically wrong about its impact on leaders. Quote Michael Wilmot assistant professor of management at the University of Arkansas in a university release said quote agreeableness is the personality trait primarily concerned with helping people and building positive relationships, which is not lost on organizational leaders. Taken all together the interaction among things became clear professor Wilmot concludes agreeableness was marked by work investment, but this energy was best of reacted at helping or cooperating with others. In other words teamwork. So just he's exactly wrong and it took 30 seconds to find out. Yeah, they looked at these like thousands of studies involving nearly 2 million people and it turns out being agreeable really works well in teams and I don't know, Cody, you and I have both worked on teams. You know what's great is not working with assholes. Oh, yeah, we don't like that. It's not fun. It makes it unpleasant and you don't like to. That one of the most important things and particularly like comedy like sketch comedy, whatever is like yes and just fundamentally being agreeable. It's not like trying to shut down a joke. It's trying to expand it. You know, yeah, yeah, because that works pretty well. People people it tends to make for things that are funny. It's fascinating that people like working like people who are easy to work with. Yeah, I love this and I really appreciate that you instantly look this up because he does this all the time. He'll say like I've read the literature and it's this way and then you look it up and it's not that way or he'll make these broad claims about these sort of things and it's also stuff where it's like you are a psychologist. That is your field and you're making these claims and I just looked it up and you're wrong. It's alarming that this man is in this fine leather chair. It is. And it is a nice looking leather chair. Oh, yeah, there's a library. Whoever they have directing putting the set decorations together, they made a they made a very welcoming looking library box. Oh, yeah, one million for the library. Four million. I don't believe he's read any of those books, but it's a nice looking library. He skimmed them for a few words that he could say to reinforce his point. Yeah. So Jordan's view of masculinity doesn't leave much room for teamwork. It becomes quickly clear that he doesn't see management as a thing. People do in specific instances to help groups accomplish tasks. And instead, he sees management as how a healthy man looks at every relationship in his life. And I mean management the way that like a leader in an organization manages. And Sophie, let's play that next clip. Time. And then you should be responsible for and productive for as many people as you can manage. And so that might be first your intimate partner, your wife, second, your parents, your siblings, your children, maybe your children primarily, although, you know, there's a trade off there with your wife. So again, the split screen is just very fun. So weird every time. Why? Next he says that you should seek to manage your community and local government if it's possible at all. And it's become it's pretty clear. I think at this point that his version of masculinity is nothing but control. And it's a specific sort of control that's motivated by self hatred. And you get glimpses. I think Peterson's even really super aware of it, but you get glimpses of the centrality of self hatred to his concept of masculinity and these little gaps and cracks like this one here. Going all that responsibility if you can in a sense that's both productive and generous that gives you something to do. Justify your miserable life to yourself and everyone else. And you need to do that. It it orient you solidly in the world if you do that. And it gives you a dragon to fight a real world. And that's where the gold is. So as everyone has known forever. Oh my god. Oh my god. Robert, Robert, can we do an ad break right now just so that there's a goal? Yeah, please. That's really old. I don't want to know where else the gold is. Check out the sponsors to this podcast, which apparently include these this random gold scam company. Fucking buy the gold and give it to a dragon so you can fight it. Yeah, and then take the gold back minutes yours again. Yeah. Hey, I'm Nikki fix and my first step towards my dreams of musical stardom is playing at the iconic millennium roller rink in old bridge New Jersey. There's only one small problem. The landlord sold the ring. But then something incredible happened. Nikki, what's going on with that guitar? What's happening? Where are we? Wait, look at this. September 27th, 1996. This is our chance to fix the present. I'm Horns Epic Productions and I heart radio. The team who brought the lethal lit daughters of DC and see you in your nightmares bring you a new 12 parts scripted audio time travel adventure. Join Nikki and her friends as they travel back to the 90s and change the past to save our future. Listen to Nikki fixes time mix on the I heart radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. Hey guys, I'm Sammy J and we're back with season four of my podcast Let's Be Real with Sammy J as part of Gen Z. I love that my generation is inspiring change and I'm so excited to talk with more celebrities, activists and influencers to find out what they're passionate about, how they're changing the world or helping others feel as well. We've got Joel McHale and Dule Hill. I want to keep learning and growing in my in my art forms, but also give myself the space and the grace to know that it's a process. Yeah, singer Ash, you're like giving me a moment to have perspective over the last how many years of my life. Isn't it cool to see how far you come and grown? Yeah, it's really yeah, I appreciate you for giving me a moment. Thanks. Other guests include Megan trainer podcaster Monica Padman artist Lindsay Sterling, entrepreneur and mental health advocate Danielle Pearson and so many more. Listen to Let's Be Real with Sammy J on the I heart radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, I'm comedian and parent Ophira Eisenberg. You may recognize my voice from MPR or the Moth. I have a new podcast called Parenting is a joke. Every episode I talk with a comedian about their careers and about being a parent. Guests include actress producer and writer Catherine rightman. I have a rule that my kids are not allowed to be friends with kids with my parents. I'm like enjoy them at school and stand up comedian Chris get there. I was so cool like five years ago. I had my own TV show at subway posters with my face and now I'm picking a bobby pin out of another human being s**t. We talk about teeth, teen angst, Nietzsche, workaholism, eating sticks and debating whether or not our six year olds should watch the Godfather. Listen to Parenting is a joke on the I heart radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Also your kid doesn't think you're funny. Learn more hard truths on Parenting is a joke. We're back. So I think all of that's really fucking silly. Yeah, it is. It's about that advice about being a person. Yeah, he always comes back to like, and like, you know, there are ways to say this and discuss this. Like life is suffering and life is miserable and you suck and everything's bad. But you're you need to find you need to create a purpose is what he's talking about oftentimes. We're talking about what masculinity is, right? Right, man. And like managing productive generosity, which means managing every single being a being a hierarchical centralized leader of every aspect of your life and every relationship that you're involved with. And then once you're in control, you should go seek out dragons to fight using presumably other people to do a lot of the fighting. Oh, yeah, you send them off to get the dragon so you can get the cold. It's yeah, he's always circles or it's weird because he also like he dismisses this idea that certain things in society are about like power. Like all they say it's about power is like, no, it's not. It's about this. It's about biology or like how men have these fucking like, you know, jeans or whatever. But ultimately he's just, but then he comes back to this like, yeah, you need like, discontrol to do this. How do you do that? Well, you need to have the power to do that. He just always comes back to just like, ultimately, I be a strong man. We need being a man is being like a dictator in your life. Yeah, and it's interesting because like, obviously, Jordan's the kind of guy who like worships these quote unquote traditional like kind of militarist values and hierarchy in that sense. But if you actually look at like what makes the best, the most functional military hierarchies on the planet. They all are based around the idea that you should have a really strong non commissioned officer core. And this is certainly a kind of strict hierarchy, but it's a hierarchy that is in a lot of ways less centralized than the kind of pure middle hierarchy, the journey Peters. It's basically on the idea that you should actually have a lot of little leaders that are invested in a great degree of autonomy and whose expertise is respected. And sometimes like if you have a unit like a platoon, you have an officer who's technically in charge and then you have an NCO who is technically under him, but who is generally recognized as actually being more expert in a lot of ways. And both of them like take on different tasks. And that's necessary for actually effectively leading a unit through combat because it's working together. Yeah, I'm talking about like working together. That's weird. Yeah, it's it's all these these ideas and it requires a great deal, an effective functioning effectively as a unit in any kind of like strinuous or dangerous situation. Does it times require there being a person who is saying like do this and do that because sometimes that's necessary when you're trying to accomplish goals under stress. But the thing that requires most of all is like mutual respect and an understanding of people's talents and an ability to give subordinates autonomy because organizations that don't do those things can survive if there's not a danger being put on them if there's not like a threat. But if you're actually being threatened, you want as much intelligence to be available from the organization as possible and you only get that by giving people the ability to act with a degree of autonomy. That doesn't sound very productively generous of you though. Yeah, we can talk a lot about like the Ukrainian military versus the Russian one, but let's move on. So his next question is, oh, actually this kind of ties into that. How should you arm yourself? And the answer that Peterson gives is a humanity's education, which is interesting to me. That is interesting. Yeah. And he thinks that he kind of defines a good education in the humanities is reading great men into him. He's reading great men into his credit. He says great women too. He's actually pretty careful about that in that. So I'll give you I'll give you a thumbs up. Dr. Yeah, only took eight fucking years. Yeah. So after this, we get an extended rant about how if you either lie or you just say things you don't fully believe in, like if you alter your own beliefs to like write an essay to get a good grade for a teacher to impress someone, then you're letting someone else control and speak for you, which is kind of like basically letting a demonic spirit run your body. This is interesting for two reasons actually. One is that he says this all the time. Yeah, this is another one of it. Another one like thing where it's like, why does this show exists? This is just everything you've ever said in your like your books and stuff. But also Ben Shapiro has literally said the opposite like he is advice to his advice to people at school is to do what he did, which is just regurgitate everything is law professor said pretend that he believes it so that he can like pass the grade. And that's never going to say it's about Ben Shapiro, but like that's a valuable life skill like sometimes you're going to get pulled over by a cop and you're going to need to light of that police officer so that you don't suffer consequences that'll fuck your life up, right? Sometimes perhaps you're trying to get on an airplane and you have a bag that's over the limit and being able to like lie about it and convince someone not to weigh it is a useful life skill because then you don't you're not out $50. Sometimes you sit down with someone who's maybe kind of a crazy asshole and it's just the easiest thing and the safest thing to not engage with them over some of the things that they're saying if it's not you know I'm not saying don't engage with racist but a lot of people are just assholes in ways that it's like I don't need it. You don't need to argue with the why do you need to get it? Sometimes you just be like okay, okay, let's in the interaction and smile at them. That's a useful life skill. People who are able to do those things who were able to understand how to I don't need to be totally honest right now. I don't need it. I can just in the interaction and I want to do that in a pleasant way. So I'm just going to pretend like I don't think this person is dumb as shit right like that's fine. Yeah, but his his sort of assumption I think and maybe he's changed his mind sense is that like if you keep if you do that and you do it like more than a few times you'll start believing the things that you're that you're allowing to be said. I don't know Cody. I've lied to a lot of cops about having weed in the car and I've never thought that my car back in the day didn't have weed in it and didn't deserve to have weed in it. Exactly. Anyway, whatever the good thing about this rant is that it gives us another little moment of accidental honesty from Dr. Peterson. Love it. Think well God that was a miserable life. I manipulated everybody there so damn stupid they were sucked in by it. They're all contemptible. Everyone doesn't you know which they don't by the way. And so that's a pathway to bitterness. Pathway to bitterness. Pathway to bitterness. He kind of I feel like he's talking about himself there. I'm just going to say I feel like he's talking about something that Peterson often comes off as a bitter old man. Yeah, I think he's a bitter old man and I think he's bitter because the only thing he's done with his life is manipulate people. And it's he says again he talks a lot about how there's no difference between the spirit of manipulation taking you over and demonic possession and he's the only stop him from being canceled is that he's a fundamentally honest person which is fun because Jordan got famous for claiming that Canadian bill C16 was going to force people to use gender neutral pronouns for non binary and transgender identities and legally punish them if they didn't the people are going to be literally thrown into prison. He gave a lot of interviews saying like I think some of the things that I say in my lectures now might be illegal. I think they might even be sufficient for me to be brought before the Ontario Human Rights Commission under their amended hate speech laws. This has never happened. Nothing like this has ever happened in Canada to Dr. Peterson or to anyone else. He was completely full of shit. He knew what he was doing. Yeah. The first video I mean the first video he shared about that topic was like professor against political correctness. He knew exactly what he was doing. And it's like if you actually look at the and if you actually talk to any of the Canadian legal experts about what this law meant and what the actual because there is a threshold at which hate speech is criminal in Canada and the threshold is pretty high. You would have to be literally advocating for genocide. You would be having to try to inside a genocide which number one none of whatever you want to say his comments back then did not cross that line. And apparently no one has because no one has no one's been prosecuted for this. There's been no criminal cases as a result of this. I might argue that perhaps there should have been but whatever. So Peterson veers from this into an unhinged dissection of sleeping beauty. He really he's got an old school Disney fix it. I'm just going to have so big play. He really does. Well, because they're the old stories right there fairy tales. They're even local. You know ones that are exactly. Anyway, here's Jordan Peterson. So what can you arm yourself with you know in sleeping beauty when the the prince he's entrapped in the in that castle by. Maleficent who's the ultimate eatable mother. She transforms herself into a dragon which everyone seems to just take as a matter of course because of course the evil which transforms herself into a dragon but why we think that's logical is a deep question an archetypal question but anyways he's armed with the sword of truth and I believe it's the shield of virtue but the sword of truth and. That's it's a corny trope in some sense but it's not corny at all because how could falsehood prevail against truth how could that possibly be the case if if what is true reflects what is real how can what is unreal prevail against what is real. And so you know. I love when he does stuff like that and then he's like and so and he's like wait what was I talking about. First off Jordan we accept it when the witch turns into a dragon because it is a fantasy cartoon and she's a witch so even though witches don't always turn into dragons and movies in fact usually don't in movies with witches we're all like yeah whatever like she just did a bunch of fucking gobbling goob magic it's fine like there's there's fucking but also like even just like okay yeah she's doing magic and stuff I'll just turn to a dragon she's deceiving whether it's like her true form or she's turning to a dragon deceiving him I've got the sort of truth like he was right the first time yeah it's a little corny trope it's little on the nose it's like he's just he's taking this like visual metaphor or like this imagery and being like wow yeah truth is important like it's just like what it's like it's like it's like if it's like if Jordan Peterson watched happy Gilmore and was talking about the scene where he does a subway add and he's like we accept the subway add because somehow fundamentally there's something about human beings that make them want to sell five dollars sandwiches no we accept the subway add because there was a lot of advertising and movies at the time and it was clearly a joke about that as well it's like it's anyway whatever it's got your peaters and I watched happy Gilmore recently holds up fine film quite good film you know weirdly enough shooter McGavin is the same as the Fed from the iron giant oh I did do that yeah yeah anyway so it's all it's all good is it his entire argument here just rests on like this very ridiculous this very ridiculous tautology if what is true reflects what is real how can what is unreal prevail over what is real well I don't know if you lie and you get a crowd of people to believe a man committed a crime that he didn't commit and then you get them to linch that man so you can take his stuff it seems like what is unreal can prevail over what is real and does so regularly well right like look at like his any like historical record like yeah all it happens all the time works what do you talk to the works what of the most successful strategies in all the time works strategies in all of history because also because he'll and he'll because he talks about these things to he talks about like like different regimes and their propaganda and how effective it is and like it's talks about not see well he talks about not see during this we're for a positive example of this but like I know there's whole families of people who exist because at some point someone was asked are you hiding a Jewish family in your house and they said no it turns out but how but that they not have the sort of truth like no they were good at lying and that's an important life skill anyway one thing it's like not yeah it's it's it's very fun because a lot of like not only is this stupid this is advice that is almost Taylor made to create failures of people listen to this portion where he complains that people who do the writing their assigned by their teachers just to get a grade are like inherently breaking some sort of moral law wait okay yeah check this out why write well maybe you're writing about something important and if you're not then it's just a lie the whole enterprise so right about something important why do you want to write well so that you can think that's what you're doing when you're writing revelation here's some ideas I have you do your research here's some ideas I have I'll get them down then I'll edit the idea so only keep the best ideas well now I know how to think about that now I know how to perceive that now I know how to act on that well now you know how to even act in relationship to something difficult well that's why you learn to write it so you can think and you know everyone says to their children think before you are well why so you can not do stupid things so why so you don't do stupid things why not do stupid things stupid things things perhaps like getting addicted to binzos well you have nothing but red meat for months and then letting your take you to a weird Russian clinic where you do a cold turkey detox so danger sit nearly kills you leaves you in a coma and results in you becoming a broken shell of a man who cries at random during podcast interviews and can't sleep for 30 days after drink no sip of cider like it's like a lot of people just do essays because they need to get the grade because they're paying like a $1,100 to take this fucking class also like there are a lot of ways to like to learn how to think and like different processes and again like pattern recognition and all these sort of like logic or in reasoning and what not oftentimes learning to write is to it's not to think it's to communicate your thoughts is what he's really trying to say also this is like a thing he's again is another one of those like heard this 90 times from this guy yeah but it's just like Jordan if being a good writer meant you were a good thinker then writers would be famous for being well-adjusted people with healthy habits rather than like the most comprehensively broken or field in the entirety of the arts and sciences like name a famous writer and then name what they're famous for outside of their books and it's probably the fact that their life is a disaster right and like it's not that which is not to say that you need to have a disaster of a life to be a writer it's just to say that writing well does not mean you know how to think well right you can communicate again you can communicate your thoughts that you're having you have these or since got card beautiful writer dog shit opinions about the world also love this idea that like if you watch the video he's using his hands a lot and talk about you write it and then it's this big long thing and then you edit it down to just the best ideas I don't know if anyone listening has seen maps of meaning I don't think it had an editor code is like thousand page a diagram of a dragon yeah so I don't know maybe you should write more to learn how to think better but it's like you're learning how to put forth an argument not necessarily how to no and that's that's the thing that he says right like that he's actually saying here which is that like the goal of writing is to like make an argument to convince somebody about the way you think rather than just trying to like explain a thing or describe a thing it's about like everything else for Jordan it's about domination so if you play that play this next clip right so why write how about so you can take your place in the world not so you can please the teacher and be some obedient like lap dog you need to know how to think and speak so you can lead and think and conceptualize and and entrant he does the thing again where you can see his like he just kind of goes away for a second when he says hand and trance and it's I would say pretty unsettling yeah well like that because again it's like entrancing implies deception yeah which seems contradictory to what he's trying to say but yeah it's it's the he what he what he makes clear in this next clip is that yeah writing is just a tool for domination because that's the actual only task worth achieving to Jordan pen is mightier than the sword it's there's no comparison the sword you know yeah fair enough and you want to be careful of someone who wields the sword but you will depend in a mighty manner nothing stops you ever that's assuming too that you're oriented you know in some noble manner he does use the word oriented like a lot yeah it's it's it sounds smarter to him than like facing or directed or whatever like yeah I don't know it's just like why do we need so many words to say the phrase that he already said he said he said the common phrase the pen is mightier than the sword and then he like started to talk about her for a long time like I don't need that I have the phrase yeah and it's also again it's it's one of I love the pen is mightier than the sword is like a fucking because it's useless right it's a completely useless statement because no the pen is not mightier than the sword the argument is like the actual thing that is true is that like well ideas can cause like Titanic shifts and can get lots of people killed and can be sort of the the the beginning point the well spring of a tremendous amount of power right ideas can be written down and often are and that's true but like the fact that like the Nazis wrote a lot of books in propaganda that was instrumental in them gaining power didn't mean that like their ability to beat the shit out of and shoot people wasn't also instrumental in game part of it and a lot of people who did that weren't convinced because of like writing or propaganda but because they wanted power and wealth and saw this is the best way to get it and like we're acting out of grave and self interest and kind of an intantum thing again saying the just saying the pen is mightier than the sword is a meaningless statement well so he's not like because he's not talking about that right because he's he had to he had to qualify with like well as long as oriented towards like moral good or wherever he phrased it yeah so he's not even talking about like in his view like bad guys with a pen no so what's it's all this qualification seems like this is it's it's fucking trash Cody and it's trash that we're gonna let sit for today and finish this episode up when we come back in part two of this he talks so much about too many things and nothing about everything and he looks I don't know. Cermit the frog I do like that where we've got it where we've got it paused right now there's like a little you can see a little waddle starting to form on the side of his neck like I'm seeing double four Peterson's just just like a frog's pouch so I don't know maybe Dr. Jordan Peterson is a lizard man let's see if David Ike has an opinion on that Cody only thing to pluck all the time every day you know my name is Cody Johnston like you said the top some more news even more news go Google it we got three hours on this guy we're talking about no the code is a character your name is Cody Johnson has anyone ever called Johnston sorry has anyone ever called you see just no well technically yes because you just did there we go. Episode's over oh good behind the bastards is a production of cool zone media from more from cool zone media visit our website coolzone media dot com or check us out on the iHeart radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. What if you had the chance to change the past? December 27th 1996 and create the future you've always dreamed of. Inehorn's epic productions and iHeart Radio bring you a new 12-part scripted audio time travel adventure join Nikki and her friends as they travel back to the 90s and change the past to save our future. Listen to Nikki fixes time mix on the iHeart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi I'm Ophira Eisenberg I'm a comedian and a parent of the absurdity of telling jokes late at night and then waking up early with a small child in the morning I have a new podcast called parenting is a joke I'll talk to other funny people who are also parents will we be laughing will we be crying find out by listening to parenting is a joke on the iHeart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey guys I'm Sammy J and we're back with season four of my podcast let's be real with Sammy J as part of Gen Z I love that my generation is inspiring change and I'm so excited to talk with more celebrities activists and influencers to find out what they're passionate about how they're changing the world or helping others feel as a low season four is going to be exciting revealing and empowering listen to let's be real with Sammy J on the iHeart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.