Behind the Bastards

There’s a reason the History Channel has produced hundreds of documentaries about Hitler but only a few about Dwight D. Eisenhower. Bad guys (and gals) are eternally fascinating. Behind the Bastards dives in past the Cliffs Notes of the worst humans in history and exposes the bizarre realities of their lives. Listeners will learn about the young adult novels that helped Hitler form his monstrous ideology, the founder of Blackwater’s insane quest to build his own Air Force, the bizarre lives of the sons and daughters of dictators and Saddam Hussein’s side career as a trashy romance novelist.

Part One: Nestor Makhno: Anarchist Warlord and Book Club Aficionado

Part One: Nestor Makhno: Anarchist Warlord and Book Club Aficionado

Tue, 22 Dec 2020 20:05

Part One: Nestor Makhno: Anarchist Warlord and Book Club Aficionado

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Hey, Robert here. It's been like two months since I had LASIK and I'm still seeing 2020. All I had to do was go in for a consultation, then go in for a maybe 10 minute procedure and then my eyes have been great ever since. You know, I healed up wonderfully. It was very simple, couldn't have been a better experience. So if you want to explore LASIK plus I can't recommend it enough. They have over 20 years experience in the industry and they performed more than two million treatments right now if you want to try getting LASIK plus you can get $1000 off of your surgery when you're treated in September, that's $500. Of per eye, just to schedule your free consultation. Hello, I'm Erica Kelly from the podcast Southern Fried true crime. And if you want to go from podcast fan to podcast host, do what I did and check out spreaker from iheart. I was working in accounting and hating it. Then after just 18 months of podcasting with Spreaker, I was able to quit my day job. Follow your podcasting dreams. Let's breaker handle the hosting, creation, distribution, and monetization of your podcast. Go to That's Hey there, it's Ebony Monet, your co-host for the San Diego Zoo's Amazing Wildlife podcast. In this special episode, we're speaking with Doctor Jane Goodall about the fascinating journey that led to her impactful behavioral discoveries on chimpanzees. It wasn't until one of the chimpanzees began to lose his fear of me, but I began to really make discoveries that actually shook the scientific world. Listen to amazing wildlife on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Ho, ho, ho. **** the Pope. I mean, Mary Chris. I like where that was going. I like where that was going. I I didn't hate it. It's the holidays. Yeah. How? How I I'm Robert Evans. This is behind the ******** normally a podcast about the worst people in all of history. But not today, because today is the Christmas episode, and with me to help present our Christmas episode is my erstwhile producer, Sophie Lichterman. Give him a bow, Sophie. OK, well, so if he didn't want about you, that's that's kind of mean. And you can bow to me, Robert, the inestimable Jamie Loftus. Hi. How, how, how how has everybody doing this holiday season, everyone feeling Yule and tide? I'm feeling, I'm feeling good. I've been, I've been consuming a lot of Christmas content. Oh good. I Santa University's good to go. I feel, you know, I feel as good as I possibly could in this moment. I am. I won't last. No, no, of course not. I mean, maybe a little. We got a festive story this year, but yeah, Christmas is is, is a is a wonderful season. I've been doing a whole lot of Christmas content. I did my yearly viewing of white Christmas, which was the first movie filmed in color. It predates Alaska being a state. And it has very subtle racism, which is always a hoot. You know, it is. The fact that it was even subtle is is a surprise. Yeah, I didn't notice it. I watched it every year as a kid with my family, and I didn't notice until I was an adult that, like, oh, the only black characters in the entire movie are like working behind the bar on a train and they don't talk. That tracks, that tracks. What year did it come out in? Like 52 like it it is, or 54 maybe. It's like, you know, it's back in the day and it's got old bingo. It's. I watched you, Robert. You should watch. I would love your takes on the new Princess Switch movie. What? I think you have some. Like, when you say switch, are we talking like switch or are we talking like, so here's the rundown. So there's a Princess, not not the print that would be a really good sequel is the Princess Switch. But these are just simply princesses who switch with each other, and they're all played by Vanessa, who take each other's jobs. Yes, they it's kind of like the holiday that Nancy Meyers movie. There's nothing ***** about it, although I think that there's room in the franchise for that to change. And and all of the princesses are played by Vanessa Hudgens. We're up to three Vanessa Hudgens, that is. He doesn't know who Vanessa Hudgens is, but she plays so she's so she's she's like, meet the Klumps sing a Princess movie. Literally like, this is her nutty professor. You know who Vanessa Hutchins is? Who? What does? Yeah, she's an actress. She she wow. I don't know. Wow. Doesn't she do some Disney **** she did. Yeah, like I couldn't pick her face out, but like, I've seen Vanessa Hudgens and things. It's familiar. Like she's she's as real a human being to me as I don't know. Uh, uh, uh. I forgotten all of the names of every other person who's ever been in movies. This is real is bingo at least, if not more. No, no, she famously bingo. Early in quarantine, she went live on Instagram and said she didn't care. She said that, you know, in a pandemic people are going to die and we should just accept that she's a really hardened person. She sounds like a real hero. You know, Speaking of hardened people who are heroes. Well, the person we're talking about today, every Christmas season, every yuletide, we, we, we switch around, you know, the the premise of this show and go from talking about the worst people in all of history to talking about one of the best people in all of history. And, you know, this is, this is I think, a pretty beloved tradition where on year three of it now, and, you know, our first pick was someone who is, I think is as pure a human being has ever existed, Raul Wallenberg, who really you can't get any better than Raul. And, you know, the next year we did a very flawed man who nevertheless rose to the occasion of history and became a glorious Speaking of moral courage, Mr. John Brown. Solid guy, solid hero. And this year, we're doing yet another kind of different sort of hero. Uh, this guy's a messy figure. He had a dark side, and he's a man who, in the end, failed in his ultimate goals. But he's someone I find inspiring nevertheless. And after a messy year of darkness and failure, I think that he's the right person to talk about today. Because today we're chatting about Nestor Machno. OK, as you know, I have no ******* clue who this person is, but. But he's coming in strong with a I mean, this is, this is honestly my Nestor Makhno. Yeah. Nestor machno. He's Ukrainian as ****. Like, he's Ukrainian as ****. OK. So this is kind of a situation of like. This is Vanessa Hudgens to you. Is Nestor Machno to me. So who is he? Nestor Machno was an anarchist warlord and one of the most successful guerrilla commanders in all of history. Without him we probably would never have had a Soviet Union, which is a mixed bag, and he was not trying to make a Soviet Union. I should note that he actually really didn't want it to happen. But he's a, he's a fascinating guy. He's a really influential person, I think a A guy who in one of the worst periods and places in human history was was a as good a person as you could possibly be. And he's also kind of rad. So we're going to talk about ************* Nestor Machno and. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, if we're going to talk about Nestor before we get into his life, we we're going to have to talk about Ukraine a little bit. Do you know much about Ukraine, Jamie? I really don't. I got to tell you, I don't. Yeah, almost no one does, for good reason. The Ukraine, I think in a lot of Americans they kind of think of Ukraine is like any other European cut, like Germany, you're ******* Denmark or or or or Russia or whatever. And that's not really the right way to think about it. Ukraine is a colonized land and Ukrainians like the Irish are are victims of colonization. Kind of like the Sicilians too, right? Like the things that happened to them, things we're going to talk about happening to Ukraine are not entirely dissimilar to things that happened to the Congolese or to indigenous N Americans, not to say. Like, all of those are the same either, but there's a lot of similarities. They are are a a victims of colonialism, right? And they weren't considered white by a lot of people until fairly recently. Hitler, like took over Ukraine to take over. It was 8 minutes, 8 minutes before we hit Hitler. Yeah, well. Do you think that that's a fun game to play with every episode of the show? Yeah, OK, but no. Hitler wanted their land because it's good growing land. But his plan was basically to white to to genocide them all slowly over time to make way for for white people, right? And like, he was not the only person who had a broadly similar plan with Ukraine. Yeah. So the Russia we know today actually got its name from Ukraine. Russia comes from the Kievan Rus. The capital of Ukraine is Kiev. You know, pretty obvious math there, the top one things I know about Ukraine. Yeah. Yeah. So that's the thing people tend to know. For most of modern history, native Ukrainians have been pretty oppressed from 1775 to 1782. Catherine the second, who is, is generally known as an enlightened despot, which maybe isn't the term we should use. I was like is that? That is for sure, moron. That's for sure an oxymoron. She was really good at making painters and **** like her, but she was also like a brutal tyrant. OK, so, you know, she's, you know, there's pros and cons. We all contain multitudes. She's enlightened because people with fancy coats like her, but also she rules thousands of what are essentially slaves with an iron fist, you know, and enlightened despite. She's a desperate with clout, some serious clout. She had some serious clout, and she used that clout, Jamie, to give away 5,000,000 hectares of Ukrainian land to Russian nobles. She didn't ask the people who were already occupying it first. She also that's where the despot comes in. Yeah, that's the despot part. The enlightened part was giving it away. She also gave a bunch of land to German colonizers who'd moved into the area with her blessing. And a lot of these people that she gave all this land to didn't actually wind up living on the land they were basically. Absentee landlords, kind of like with the Irish dealt with, right? Like, you give the land to your to your loyal noble followers and they use it to make money for themselves, but they don't. They don't go there. They're not going to leave Moscow or whatever. Although everyone else, like everyone else, was displaced from the land. Generally, they just became serfs who were the property of the people who own the land, right. Like, that's usually more how it went. Terrifying. Yeah, it's awful now whenever you have colonization, and that's really what's occurring to Ukraine in the 1700s. Uh, you have resources that the colonizers are trying to plunder. And in Ukraine's case, it's the infamous black earth. Ukrainian soil is incredibly fertile. It's the bread basket of Europe, right? A lot of Europe. It's hard to, like, grow food on Ukraine, grows a ******** of food. It's like where your ******* sunflower oil comes from today. But, like, a lot of **** grows in Ukraine. People have been fighting over it for a long time as a result. Telling Ukrainian products. Yeah, yeah. They make some good sausages, some good soups. I had the worst calamari of my life. There, but it wasn't a war zone, so I'm not gonna blame him too much. I'm seeing, yeah, I'm seeing soup. I'm seeing T-shirts that say I'm Ukrainian. You couldn't handle me with instructions. Yeah, that was that was that was the the most popular. That's what everyone was fighting over in 1803 was the was the Ukrainian novelty tee shirts. Actually, all of Europe's novelty T-shirts are grown in Ukrainian soil. So this is wow. Yeah. That's why Hitler and Stalin fought over the land. You know, that's what really decided. World War Two calamari choice. In a war zone, you're like, you know what would be? I had to try it. I had to try it. That's fair. And it was as bad as I expected Warzone calamari to be. One day I'll go back to Constantinova and see if I can get better calamari. So after Catherine the 2nd in 1803, the Czar of Russia assigned 1000 hectares of Ukrainian land to every retired Russian officer and 500 to every retired NCO. And what he was doing with his retired soldiers and what Katherine did with the Germans was the same idea. Basically, like you have this land that's rebellious and filled with people you don't trust, so you give it to people. You have people that either you trust or that have to be loyal to. You move there like you say. The Germans. I'll give you land here if you'll help me oppress the local like the native Ukrainians, right? Like your your job is going to be to keep this **** on lock. For me, it's the same thing with her retired soldiers, right? This happens all over the world. The Romans did it. A **** load now. One of the main groups of foreigners brought into Ukraine in this period to help bazaars and Zarina's maintained control. Where the Mennonites now Ukraine's Mennonites, came over from Germany in the late 1700s when Catherine the Great gave again, gave him a **** load of land that she'd stolen from indigenous Cossack. The new guy tribes people now, each family, each Mennonite family, was given 175 hectares and granted immunity to taxes for 30 years. This generous deal made sense because Mennonites were famously hard workers, and the Empress saw this as an investment. As a result, many Mennonites in Ukraine were wealthy. They owned serfs, and when serfdom was abolished, they basically owned people who were pretty much sharecroppers. So serfdom is like you are. You are not. It's not as bad as being like a chattel slave and like the American S, but. It's it's on that same scale. You are part of the land. So if a, a nobleman owns land that surfs her on, he owns you and you're bound to that land. OK. It's not very bleak chart that you're describing. It's the way all of Europe works in the medieval period, right? And it's the way Ukraine continues to work in Russia, continues to work into the 1860s. So everywhere else in Europe is like, oh, this is a terrible way to have a society. And Russia is like. Change. It could be so much worse. Yeah, there's steam engines when Russia's like, yeah, we should probably not have surfs. That might be bad. Russia is so stressful. God. All right, incredibly stressful. So just yeah, it's bleak. Now, given what most Americans know about Mennonites, you might assume that being a peasant for a Mennonite overlord would be, like your best case scenario of being like a surfer, a peasant. You know, if you have to be like that disenfranchisement scale. OK, yeah, yeah, because Mennonites are pacifists, right? They don't use violence. They're supposed to be like our Mennonites are pretty chill folks. You know, Mennonites have a big, big factor in like the American Anti War movements for a long time. They're they're supposed to be pretty chill. That has not always been the case and was not the case in Ukraine. Ukrainian Mennonites were not pacifist in any way that you would recognize as pacifist. And I found a heavily researched and citation full write up of all of this on a site called Libcom. Org, which is a libertarian communalist sort of information warehouse or whatever, and it's speaking as stressful sounding. Oh, it's good **** to be, I believe, and it notes, quote. Those who labored on these estates included Russo, Ukrainian peasants and landless Mennonites and their treatment of laborers and surfs. The Mennonite landlords were indistinguishable from their Russo Ukrainian peers. A representative incident. A Mennonite landowner caught a Russo Ukrainian laborer stealing grain, so he pushed the laborer into the grain bin. And nail down the lid. He waited two days and then called the mayor to have the captive flogged. Many Mennonite landlords practiced collective punishment. When theft was suspected, all the potential suspects were flawed so as to teach a lesson to both the guilty and the innocent. The principle of pacifism had therefore been abandoned by wealthy Mennonites long before the Russian Revolution. So we ****. It sucks to be in Ukraine for a long time, and it's not easy now. You know what? With the invasion. That's, I mean, even for a landlord that is, that's a bad, bad. And I'm pointing out to the Mennonites are doing this because of some stuff that comes later. But that's everyone who has land in Ukraine, right? That's that's the Mennonites, that's the Germans, that's that's Jewish people. That's which like some of them, like there's about 1% of landlords. But like everyone who is rich in Ukraine is that kind of terrible to the people who are bound to the land. That is ******. I like, yeah, Russians had bad landlord experiences, but yeah. That's that's new. That's new. These are like like hyper landlords, right, because these are landlords that also own you. Yeah. Yeah. So again, most of the Ukrainian peasantry were surfs up until serfdom was abolished in 18610 and I should also note that, like we're like there were wealthy Mennonite and in Jewish and Russian and German landlords, there were poor people of all who were also basically owned by their landlords, too. Right. This is not a religion or an ethnicity thing. This is a the way rich people are in Ukraine thing, you know? OK, yeah. So. Yeah, they're basically everyone who isn't Rich is a surf. Up until like 1861 now, before abolition again, serfs were basically enslaved, pretty close to that at least. And when the serfs were freed, they were given tiny parcels of their native land, 3 hectares per family on average, and they generally had to buy that land back from the person who would own them. Previously, the best lands in Ukraine were given to the Czar. These were called Crown lands. Other good lands were given to his nobles, the clergy, and favoured foreigners like the Mennonites and the. Arguments for one example of kind of how the breakdown of land ownership in Ukraine went in 1891 and the province of Catarina Aslav. German planters, who were 4% of the population, controlled 9.46% of the land. Greeks who were 2% of the population controlled nearly 7% of the land, and Ukrainian peasants, who made-up 70% of the population, controlled only 37 1/2% of the land. So that's honestly a higher number than I expected, but that's not good because again. Surfdome was abolished and they were given, you know, a chunk of land, but in many cases they were still, it was the worst land and they were still paying it off to the people who had owned their parents, you know. I mean, when you put it that way, it still sounds like a pretty bad deal. It's a raw deal. Again, it's a raw deal. There are not a lot of points in modern history where you would have wanted to live in Ukraine. You ******* awful there. Oh man, yeah. I mean, like, Ukraine is a beautiful country. I've, I've enjoyed the people. They've just, like been continuously ****** over by everyone around them. They're like, if you look at the position of Ukraine in Europe, they're in the worst case because they have the best land and they're in between Germany and Russia and Poland. Like it's horrible place to be in the crossfire is of like. Bleak places that could colonize your land? Well, that explains the whole I'm Ukrainian. You couldn't handle me with instructions. Novelty T-shirt. You know, they're quarrel coming to football. They've had to be. Yeah, it makes sense for survival based purposes. Now, the other native peoples of Ukraine are called Cossacks, and the Cossacks are complicated as hell. They're a nomadic horse riding warrior, people who traditionally live by a mix of shepherding, banditry and selling their services as mercenaries. They're famous warriors. They're like ******* right? It's like pretty dramatic sounding on. Yeah, they're *******. They are dramatic. Yeah. It's like, they're like a fashion element to this because it just sounds like they're a lot. Yeah, there's some. There are some amazing pictures I will Google. There's a great painting of paws. Next that is is ******* cool as hell, Jamie. It's it's one of the raddest pictures in all of the history of pictures and I'll, I'll send it along to you in a second. So the cost at the term Cossack was applied by Europeans as like kind of a a broad term to encompass all the different groups of these people. Even though every Cossack banned and tribe was different and you'll hear them describe differently, a lot of people will describe them as different tribes. Different bands it's not entirely based on like family ties or ethnicity, because a lot in a lot of cases like Cossack bands will adopt anyone who wants to come in as a Cossack, which also like actually some Native American tribes did at certain periods too. So it's not, I don't know, it's I I I'm not an expert on the on the Cossacks, but they did a lot of like different Cossack bands did a lot of different stuff. There were Cossack groups who sold their services to the Czar and were basically the czar is shock troopers, like when there was a rebellion. Bizarre. Would send in his Cossacks to ******* murder everybody. And when Napoleon invaded Russia, his fleeing army like he got, he got beaten and he wound up fleeing from Moscow. His army was harried and massacred by Cossacks. You know, they're fast and they're terrifying. They're like the ******* and they come from a similar area, like you have all these different peoples who live on horseback in the Asian steps, and they're really good at fighting. The Cossacks are one of those groups. OK? Back in the 1600s, when Ukraine was owned by Poland and Poland was the one ******* around in Ukraine, there was a mass uprising of Ukrainian Cossacks and peasants against the Poles that succeeded in kicking Poland out of Ukraine and also bringing Poland into Russian control because there weren't enough Cossacks left alive after beating off Poland to run the country. Basically, yeah. There was also a genocide that occurred during this that the Cossacks committed against Jewish people called the Kominski massacre that might have been the largest massacre of Jewish people. Prior to the Holocaust, some, some, some like. Anyway, complicated history here. So now I sent you a picture. So if you're playing the the ******** bingo. That was about 21 1/2 minutes till genocide. Yeah, yeah. Wow. Like Santa in the picture you sent. Wow, I love the Cossacks. In this famous painting, there's this famous painting of a bunch of Cossacks looking like rad dudes smoking and drinking and covered in weapons and like, yeah, writing a letter back to the con. Yeah, there's a Santa looking ************. It's a very famous painting. Yeah, motion and it's a, it's a painting of a group of Cossacks called the Zappa Orogs and the Zappa Orog Cossacks are the group who led that rebellion against Poland. They're the Cossack community who kind of like was native to eastern Ukraine, and they were the same Cossack community who would one day produce a low baby named Nestor Machno. So that's this is, this is that's everything has been sort of laying the groundwork for where this guy comes from, but like the people in that painting. Or like Nestor's ancestors. Literally one of them looks like Santa. A heavily armed Santa. Are you implying that Santa at present is not heavily armed? I'll tell you, he's not heavily armed enough to come into my house. Wow, OK, I shoot to kill on Christmas. So. So yeah, I'm going to quote now from a a fairly fun book about mocno called Anarchies Cossack that talks a little bit about what the Cossacks were like and kind of what the what the political tradition was. In the area where Machna grew up before the ZAR took over. They clung to their Republican traditions what was known as Cossack freedoms, namely the practice of settling all their problems in General Assembly, the crook, and of appointing their own Ottoman an elected and revocable military leader. The zapper dogs were free men or men whose ambition was to be such. They welcomed many outsiders to their ranks, Russians fleeing their despotic rulers or serfdom retainers, peasants, townsfolk, vagabonds of various origins, fleeing taxation constraint in all manner of servitude, and lured by the zapara's manner and freeway of life, their venicia they could stay permanently or just sample Cossack life for a spell and principle. Every free Ukrainian was a Cossack while retaining his land, and could be mobilized at a moment's notice. So the Cossacks have like a long kind of democratic tradition. Like a lot of, like a lot of tribes, like a lot of hunter gatherers, they don't like, you know, if your reputation is we're all really good at killing. It's kind of hard to have a very like strict leader in charge of you because everyone's got weapons and is good at murdering each other. So yeah, that's the cost. And and Ukrainian peasants had some democratic traditions too, that go back a pretty long way that we're kind of like they they weren't powerful enough for the Czar to really care about cracking down on them, but there are some self government traditions that exist in this region. Even underneath the czars oppression, so does Aparagus had been mostly, like wiped out by the Russian government back in the 1700s. A lot of them have been turned in the surfs, their homes and lands despoiled, but they were kind of still around and most more or less baked into the scenery by October 27th, 1888, when a little baby boy named Nestor Machno was born. Zapara eggs is such a good name for ******** name games in the good it sounds like a college band as a compliment. That's one of the reasons I love kind of Eastern European. History, because everything is just rad as ****. It all sounds very like punk rock. Yeah, it's it's an incredibly punk rock region of the globe. So Nestor was the fifth son of his parents who had been serfs to a guy named Chelski back in the days before getting their freedom. Now the land that they've been given was too small to feed them, and so nester's dad spent the rest of his life working for the guy who used to own him. Which sucks. I I I wouldn't. I don't imagine you want to do. So I'm trying to pursue. Yeah, you don't want that. Nester was a very good student with a particular gift for arithmetic and reading, but he only got about 2 truncated school years worth of education before his dad died, and his family was poor enough that at age 10 he had to start working full time. Well, does he what he said 10 full time. 10. He's a 10 year old man. He is. Wow. I love that. Well, double digits, you know. Grow the **** ** Nestor. Hmm? What's his job? You know what else is a 10 year old man, Jamie? **** no. Where is this going? The products and services that support this podcast. This is so inaccurate a hard tin little entrepreneurs. Hmm. There's better be. This is not Shark Tank, Robert. It could be. What if we did that show? Child on Shark Tank, 100%. That's so ****** ** cable television. They're they're you know what we've been talking about is ****** **. But there was a little kid on once and his his pitch was terrible. So Mark Cuban put a cigar out on him. Wow, that's good. It was good TV. The battle has told me that sound very true. It could be true. I mean, I feel like an adult putting a cigarette out on you. That'll teach you to never do things. Yeah, and adult putting a cigar out on you. People. Really? That'll keep you bound to the land. Like a career change. That is a career change. All right, here's products that probably won't put a cigar out on you. 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When you want to be a better problem solver, therapy can get you there. Visit behind today to get 10% off your first month. That's better This fall on revisionist history, is there anything that we haven't talked about, or I should have asked you or you'd like to add that seems relevant? You should have asked me why I'm missing fingers on my left hand. A story about sacrifice. I think his suffering drove him to try to alleviate suffering. And the shocking discovery I made where I faced the consequences of writing a book I thought would help people, isn't that funny? It's not funny at all. It's depressing. Very depressing. Revisionist history is back with more. Listen to revisionist history on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. I've never seen less enthusiasm for a great idea in my life. We're back, yeah. So I have almost finished my first full cup of of death wish coffee, which is reportedly the strongest coffee in the world. And I guess I have a severe caffeine addiction because it just has a caffeine addiction. I just like Rush ordered sugar free pear Red Bull to my house. Yeah, I mean, it's pretty good coffee, actually. It's nice. Red Bull is the one that you also like robberies. The sugar free pear. Red Bull is very tasty. It is I I got a real **** yourself brand of iced coffee today. I got like, it's got too much dairy in it. It's the it's. I think I've talked about it with you before. It's the Tik T.O.K Stars coffee order. There was a brand with the courage to just be called **** yourself, iced coffee. Like this coffee will make you **** yourself. You need to get your day started. Like we will ******* ruin your pants. You will never sleep again, but you better wear a pair of pants. You're not too attached. You've got the that's the kind of vibe that what you're telling me, Jamie? Yeah, I got the Charlie at Dunkin' Donuts. I got the Charlie know who Charlie is, and I think that's honestly, I would be so worried. He doesn't know. I'm not talking about any Charlie here. We're talking about Nestor Machno. So Nestor was a good student. As a little boy, he had a gift for arithmetic and reading, but you only got about two years of school before, at age 10, he has to help provide for his family. He worked full time from 10 onwards, generally for other wealthy property owners like the man who had once owned his parents. Nestor later wrote that this experience awoken him a sort of rage, resentment and even hatred for the wealthy property owner. I think we can all identify with that. It's very relatable in for us and and little man relatable guy he's a yeah I feel like OK. I am picturing 10 year old nester with the facial hair that I'm seeing in all of the Google images. Cossacks. Yeah he had a full beard by age 7. Absolutely. That's when you become a little man. That's what happened. Yeah. So more than anything Nestor hated the wealthy children of these rich people he particularly hated when these. That is very relatable. Told them young idlers, and he more than anything, he hated when they would walk near him. Quote, and this is from Nestor's biography, All fresh and neat, with full bellies in the cleanest clothes reeking of perfume, while he filthy and in rags, barefooted and stinking of dung, scattered bedding for the Cavs. See, from an early age, nester, like he was working in like the he was like ******* cleaning up after the cow. So he smelled like **** all the time, and he was extremely aware from an early age that his circumstances were unjust and that the situation was crooked. He also felt it. More or less hopeless, he told himself that. Yeah, yeah, like you ******* get to smell nice because I have to clean up **** for your family. Like, I ******* hate you people. Yeah, I love a child with deep seated class issues from like the jump. That is like a very powerful energy to take into life. ******* jump. Yeah, he goes from zero to ******* step. Yeah, it's like the I'm like, damn I. It reminds me of all the Sophie. Do you remember those weird, those weird little juice bar perfumes that like, rich girls in junior high would have did gummy? They had pictures of gummy bears on them. They all went to ******* soccer camp. It was disgusting. I'm with, I'm with Nestor. Meanwhile, I smell like a *** **** hot dog. Yeah, I mean, absolutely did not own because I was not. Web or rich, but yes, you know you brought this up in our Mark Zuckerberg episode. Jamie, that time you were drunk and hocked a bottle at a rich Stanford kid who was or Harvard kid who was who was in was rowing. He was rowing. Yeah, Messenger has strong hucking a beer bottle at a rowing Ivy League college student energy. Sick. I like him so far. I hope he doesn't. I hope he doesn't **** **. He he doesn't. I mean, he doesn't succeed in his ultimate goals, but they're pretty ambitious. Yeah. So, yeah, he he felt that like, as ****** ** as the situation were, it was pretty much unhealthiness, uh, this is how things are. And he, you know, he had, it was his lot in life to work for his land owning Masters and they would pay him a pittance to wreak of animal **** so that they didn't have to wreak of animal ****. So Nestor went on with life showing enough talent that as he grew up he was promoted from taking care of cows to taking care of horses, which is the podcasting. Of the taking care of animals game, I think we can all agree I like that. Yeah, yeah. Now it was in hit this job that he would witness one of the defining experiences of his young life. He walked into the stable one day to see the landlord's sons, beating several of the young peasant boys who worked in the stable for some minor **** **. He was enraged by this, but the dark recesses of his mind as he wrote it, made him accept it. And like a real slave, he strove just like the others about him, to avert his eyes and pretend he saw and heard not a thing. So he's saying, like, mentally, in this. He was so enslaved that, like, he couldn't even resist this. Like, he knew it was ****** ** but there was nothing to do. He'd grown up hearing stories about his parents being beaten. His mom had been a surf, and she there's this thing called the Corvey, which is this old tradition under serfdom where you have to do free forced labor in lieu of taxes for your master. And she refused to do it at one point after being freed when she didn't have to. And she'd been whipped 15 times for doing so. So he'd grown up hearing stories like this that, like, if you don't do what they want. You know, they just beat you and that's the way life is. But he also had this. He'd also, he was came from Cossack ancestry. So his mom had also told him stories of the battles of his free ancestors who had, like, fought for their liberty, you know, with ******* swords. So he grows up with both of these things in his, in his mind, you know, and I'm assuming his mom committed the genocide. Moms tend to do that. That's a classic mom move, yeah. So, you know, Nestor grows up like kind of consumed with this mixture of rage at what his mom had endured and the sense that he had ancestors who wouldn't have taken this **** which is kind of warring in him when he's 121314 years old. And eventually the same situation came round again where he sees people, kids being beaten by the children of his his master. And I'm going to quote from Anarchies Cossack here. One summer's day in 1902, the young nester, 13 years old, was present at a run-of-the-mill scene, the landlord's sons. His manager and his assistant said about insulting and then raining blows on the second stable boy in the presence of all the other stable hands, half dead from fear at the wrath of their masters. That's nesters words. Nestor could take no more and he ran off to alert the head. Stable boy Batco Ivan, who was busy in a cowshed trimming the horse's tails. Learning of what was afoot, batco Ivan, an elemental force burst like a man possessed into the room where the chastisement was underway, pitched into the young nobles and their acolytes and sent them rolling in the dirt. Swathing punches and kicks the attackers attacked, fled in disarray, some through the window, some through the nearest doorway. This was the signal for revolt. All of the day laborers and stable boys were outraged, and went off in a body to demand an explanation. The old landlord took fright and in conciliatory tone, besought them to forgive the idiocy of his young heirs to remain in his service, and even undertook to see that nothing of the sort would ever happen again. Botko Ivan related the episode to Young Nester, treating him to the first words of her bellion he had ever heard in his life. This is bocco. Ivan Botko is like boss, basically. Oh, OK hi, everybody. Robert Evans here. And I need to admit something. I lied to Jamie. Justin Bot code does not mean boss. It means daddy. And if you know anything about Jamie Loftus, you understand why I had to lie to her about what that word meant. Because we would not have gotten through the episode otherwise. No one here should countenance the disgrace of being beaten. And As for you, little Nestor, if one of your masters should ever strike you, pick up the first pitchfork you lay hands on and let him have it. This advice, once poetic and brutal, left a terrible mark upon nester's young soul and awakened him to his dignity. Henceforth he would keep a fork or some other tool within reach, meaning to put it to good use. So after this he keeps like a fork on him at all times in case he's got a stab or rich kid, which ******* rules. The way that this is written is first. While very like cinematic, epic, the way it's written because it's all they're all they're saying is and then the guy beat the **** out of a bunch of rich kids and it was awesome. And now I always carry a fork with me like because I'm weird but that is so it sounds like a like a superhero origin story. He when you hear this guy's life there's a bit of that. Like he he has a he's a ******* and he's you know, there's a lot of people who hate this guy. We'll talk a little bit about some of the. Allegations against him because he was he, he wound up being anti Soviet. You know, he fought against the Reds and the whites during the Soviet, the Russian Civil War. So there's a lot of like anybody on this podcast. Yeah, and then I'll tell you about this ****** ** **** that happened later. We don't know if it actually happened because there's a lot of like he he fought against when he realized what the Soviet Union was going to be. He fought against the the Bolsheviks as well as the fascists and the monarchists because he was like an advocate of liberty. And like, yeah, there are a bunch of stories that are. Already had a beard by the time that this happened, but I imagine actually, at the end of this story, a beard explodes out of his face because he's had just this revelatory moment when, when Botko Ivan tells him to just stab rich people, he, like a beard, explodes out of his beard. That was his second beard. Yeah, yeah, you're a man in Ukraine when you get your second beard. First period. That's kid ****. Yeah, have a beer. Beer. He hasn't lost his baby beard yet. At age 14, Nestor quit his stable job and got a gig as an apprentice at a local foundry. He made wheels for harvesting machines, and this improvement in his own quality of life corresponded to a similar improvement among the rest of his family. His three older brothers got married and left the home to set up households of their own, which meant things were a bit less tight for Nestor and his mother and his younger brother. Eventually, Nestor moved on from foundry work to being the sales assistant for a wine merchant, but he found this job disgusting. He couldn't stand doing it, and he quit after just a couple of months now. He's too busy for Nestor, too bougie, and so the book Anarchies Cossack, which is definitely is a very well sourced biography. You keep saying anarchy is kossack, but I'm hearing gravity's rainbow each and every time. It's like, way better book than ******* Thomas Pinchon ********. This is an anti pension podcast. I appreciate that. Yeah, and it's available for free online too. You can buy a copy from AK Press, but there's also, the whole thing is hosted on a But yeah, he's there's a lot of debate because again, this guy was extremely controversial and a lot of people were claimed that he was an outrageous drunk, that he flew into violent rages and like murdered people while drunk. And it's possible, like obviously the Ukrainian peasants are a hard drinking people, soldiers who spend multiple years straight. Without break fighting tend to drink heavily. Totally possible he got up to some **** while drinking. Also, a lot of these stories tend to involve him, like cut tearing 13 people apart with a knife or something like crazy **** that, like, just didn't happen like that and his weapon was a fork. Yeah, so I was going to say fake news. Fake news, yeah, there's, there's, it's. It's hard to say. There's also claims that he was not a drinker at all, and Anarchies Cossack takes the aim that he was like, not at all a drinker, and that he he he he more or less. Avoided alcohol? I don't think that's entirely true either. It's like that doesn't sound likely given the environment, right? We we do have we do have an account from a woman who knew him in his last years in Paris, who knew him for like 3 years and knew him fairly well and saw him drink occasionally. But he would never drink more than about a glass of wine and he would kind of be ****** ** after a glass of wine and not able to take more. And she was like he was very temperate. She and she noted she assumed that he like drank as much as normal. Present strength. But she saw no evidence that he was like a ******** alcoholic or that he got violent when he was. He was intoxicated. He was definitely prone to depression. But I don't know. Again, there there's, there are, there is so much. There are so many hit pieces out about this guy that were written at the time. It's kind of hard to tell exactly what happened. Was a hater. And who's reporting the facts. Yeah. Yeah. Now, yeah. But there's one of the claims is that, like, he developed a distaste for wine in particular and alcohol in general working for this. And wine merchant. He wasn't much of a drinker. I don't really know what the case was. I never met the guy because he died in 1935. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. So for the next few years, after quitting the wine business, Mocno mostly help his mom keep up their small property, take care of their one horse, and did odd jobs around town to make ends meet. He spent time working as a house painter and a decorator until he'd saved up enough money to buy a cart for his brother's small farm. They used it to translate. He did like he did. Like interior design for. Yeah, he was at home. Home decorator for a while. I would love to see his portfolio. I I'm very curious as well. What is the, what is, what kind of space is is Nestor Curie? He's like, here's the dining table, no forks. I am the only one that can have the floor. He's strapped with forks like a ******* terrorist with a bomb vest. It's just all Property Brothers, but with a lot of forks. I really hate that show. Yeah, he was he was he. He was a guy who had a wide range of gigs as a young man. Things were seem to be going well for his family, broadly speaking, until 1904 when Russia went to war with Japan for no reason. Really, this is the Russo Japanese War One of the dumbest wars that ever happened, and Russia gets its *** handed to it. Like, this war is why Japan becomes a major thing on the international stage. Because like, white people up to 1905, which is when, like, the fighting starts, are all like, nobody can **** with white people. Like, we're the *******. And then the Japanese just destroy an entire Russian fleet and everyone's like, whoa, and that's that noise one more time. Yeah, that's that's that's what Europe says after the Russo Japanese war. Alarm sound. So obviously when Russia goes to war with Japan, they come, they can script a bunch of people and Nestor's older brother, Sava was sent to the front and he gets horribly injured in this war. He's a they call, he's what's called by people at the time an invalid. The rest of his life. He's like badly wounded in this and and not not fully. Yeah, he never comes back in a lot of ways. Now that war was followed by a failed revolution in 1905 and 1906 of the socialist variety. So Russia enters into a dumb. Or gets their *** kicked and there's a revolt like you do. Now, I want to pause here to talk a little bit about Czar Nicholas the Second, you know, he's the czar who, after in 1917, gets overthrown. His whole family gets killed by the Bolsheviks. And because he and his young children get massacred in captivity, I think he's become a figure a lot of people find sympathetic. You know, the Romanovs are like, there's a lot of they were brutal dictators, right, like, like even Nicholas who there, if you read like, his letters to his wife and stuff. He's a guy. There are definitely sympathetic things about him. He's a dude who really, legitimately loved his wife, with a rare among royalty. He had a sick, terminally ill child. You know, there's some of the yeah, they were horrible. They were they were ******* monsters. Monsters. And I am no apologist for the Bolsheviks, but I will say if there's ever a justified case to murder an entire family, it's when they owned you. They ******* suck. Like, they I I don't know, I've, I've I've cracked up in my Rasputin biography again recently, and, like, they were ******* monsters. I and also trash. I hate that argument that whenever people make, they're like, well, yeah, sure, he was a brutal, horrible ruler who hated his people, but he was kind of a wife guy. You're like, well, I don't care if he's a wife guy. I don't care if he's a wife guy. So he was a guy who like he he would he was very, he constantly expressed, you know, loving his people and wanting to like, be known by them and want to be like, talk to them and stuff. But whenever they would express opinions that he he he didn't hold or that he didn't think they should hold. Then the dictator came out again, right. Like he loved the idea of being loved by his people, but he didn't actually like, he also thought that he he was like he thought he was divinely appointed to rule them, you know? You can't be a good guy and think back. So to give a little bit of like context to how brutal Nicholas himself was, we've talked a lot about the brutality of the Russian regime, but let's talk specifically about Nicholas here for a second. On January 22nd 1905 a massive crowd of thousands of working men gathered outside the Czars main Palace in Saint Petersburg to protest all the ******** and bizarre orders. A crackdown on them and a correspondent from the London Times was there. And here's what he wrote. The first trouble began at 11:00 o'clock when the military tried to turn back some thousands of strikers. One of the bridges. The same thing happened almost simultaneously at the other bridges, where the constant flow of workmen pressing forward refused to be denied access to the common rendezvous in the Palace Square. The Cossacks at first used their knouts wooden clubs and then the flat of their sabers, and finally they fired. The passions of the mob broke loose like a bursting dam. The people, seeing the dead and dying, carried away in all directions. The snow on the streets and pavements soaked with blood, cried aloud for vengeance. Meanwhile, the situation in the palace was becoming momentarily worse. The troops were reported to be unable to control the vast massage. You're constantly surging forward. Reinforcements were sent and that the at 2:00 o'clock the order was given to fire. The order was given by the ZAR. Men, women, and children fell at each volley and were carried away in ambulances, sledges, and carts. And by the time it was over, as many as 500 people had been shot dead on Nicholas's orders. Like, that's that was like one thing that he did. And, you know, this uprising in 1905 is put down brutally #1 like hundreds of different tsarists institute pogroms against Jewish people and leftists who they see. It's the same in order to, you know, defend their monarch Nicholas, since troops into the Baltic provinces in Georgia and orders them to massacre everyone who resist. By the time it's over, he kills about 13,000 people putting down this rebellion. Well, here's my question then. Why is he made out to be such a nice guy in the animated Anastasia, my favorite movie? Because he seems really nice and he gives her a little kiss on the forehead. So I just have some questions about that because I'm pretty sure that cartoon is a documentary. Yeah. It it it's it's very accurate to how he was with his kids. He just had other people's kids. Not by mercenaries. They should have shown that in the movie. Maybe. Could have been fine. What might have been nice, you know, there's also only always completely truthful and historically accurate on everything that they do ever. I like fun bat documentary on **** it might have been Netflix recently about the Romanovs. That's like a live action one and it does leave out some of the brutality like. People love to cut the Romanoff slack they want. I want to talk about the Rasputin daughters who got, you know, sent to Siberia when they were teenagers for just for just being related to Rasputin, you know? Yeah. And then what about all the kids that got shot? What about what about Rah, Rah, Rasputin himself, lover of the Russian queen. Yeah. The King of disco. He he was the king of disco. So when they were like, we found *** **** and then they were like, wait a second, this is a pickle. Your mother giant ****. There is a giant penis out there that's been preserved that is reputed to be rasputins but is probably not. But there is a there is a big mummified Wang out there. I don't know, but I would like you to make that into an ad break transition. Yeah. You know who else mummifies penises? Products and services that support this podcast. Ohh. Mint Mobile offers premium wireless starting at just 15 bucks a month. And now for the plot twist. Nope, there isn't one. Mint Mobile just has premium wireless from 15 bucks a month. There's no trapping you into a two year contract. You're opening the bill to find all these nuts fees. There's no luring you in with free subscriptions or streaming services that you'll forget to cancel and then be charged full price for none of that. For anyone who hates their phone Bill, Mint Mobile offers premium wireless for just $15.00 a month. Mint Mobile will give you the best rate whether you're buying one or for a family. And it meant. 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And the shocking discovery I made where I faced the consequences of writing a book I thought would help people? Isn't that funny? It's not funny at all. It's depressing. Very depressing. Revisionist history is back with more. Listen to revisionist history on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. I've never seen less enthusiasm for a great idea in my life. O the revolution didn't really touch Mocno's hometown of Gulyai policy, which is where he grows up. But news of the brave attempts of the revolutionaries to overthrow the czar inspire machno. So he he he he grows up hearing about this, and he like it. It sets his imagination aflame, and he starts to believe that perhaps people like him are not destined to be ruled by kings and landlords and the like. Nestor starts reading forbidden literature, and since he was just a baby left us at this point, that meant Social Democratic propaganda. He was initially thrilled by their quote, socialist phraseology, and their phony revolutionary ardor. As the word phony in that last sentence probably keyed you in on, he fell out of the Social Democratic spell pretty quickly. So he basically he becomes a Democrat for a little while and then it's like, oh, these people don't actually want to change things the way that I want to change things. In there, baby. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. A lot of people can identify with Nestor's journey. Like, he's actually, he's a very relatable guy I've found so far. So for a year or so, he's a heart. He's ******** into the Social Democratic scene. And one of the things you'll come to understand about Nestor is that when he gets into politics, he gets into politics. He starts handing out thousands of pamphlets about, like, Social Democratic literature to everyone who will take them. And then in 1906, after like a year of this, he meets some anarchist peasants who had a little reading circle in Gulyai. Earlier, and he found himself attracted to their ideology. Now, the most educated member of the group was a guy named Valdemar Antony, the son of an immigrant check worker and a lathe worker. Valdemar took Nestor under his wing, and Nestor claims rid his soul once and for all of the lingering remnants of the slightest spirit of servility and submission to any authority. So Nestor gets pilled. Literally. OK, so Nestor, there's a bunch of like Daddy figures in Nestor's life that keep Pilling him. So now he's got 1/3 beard on top of his. Every time he's radicalized he gets another beards out. Yeah, when I say anarchist reading circle, that means one thing. In the United States today, what Nestor and his friends were doing was profoundly illegal. Revolutionaries had just tried to overthrow the government. All of Russia, and that included Ukraine at this point was under a state of siege, as had been proclaimed by the Czar. Talking about like Social Democrat **** was illegal. Anarchist books were like meth to the Czars. Police people alleged to have radical political opinions had just been shot to death and mosque by cops. Though, like, this is risky ****. Yeah, a bunch of Don Cossacks who were loyal to the Tsar had been stationed at Gulyai Polye to beat the **** out of anyone who so much as whiffed of socialism. One local writer later described seeing a teacher dragged through the streets by two Don Cossacks with Sabres while a third Cossack beat him with a rifle **** screaming. Take that, you wastrel for your revolution. My God. OK, OK. And again, the Don Cossacks are another group of Cossacks that are like the Czars, Stormtroopers, basically. So Nestor and his friends took some serious. Risks to sit around and talk about books they met once a week in a group of 10 to 15 people, and they would talk for hours about the idea that it might be possible to live without desire someday, machno later recalled. For me, such nights we most often would gather to meet by night. We're filled with light and joy. We peasants with our meager learning, with a symbol in winter at the home of one of us, in summer, in the fields near a pond, on the green grass, or from time to time in the broad daylight, like young folks out for a stroll, we would meet to debate the issues that move us, remembers this positively. Of his life like this is that's that's really pleasant. He's he's in a book club. Yeah, he's in a nice book club. This book club goes to some pretty intense places, so that it was just a book club for a little while. But after six months of study and careful vetting, conversational vetting, they make nester a full member of the group. So he starts to help his friends. They graduate from just reading books to handing out propaganda and giving lectures to their fellow peasants, and Nestor was eager to do more than that. In the wake of the Czars terror, prominent anarchists in Russia had urged their fellows into a period of black terror against. Tourism itself being poor peasants, machno and his friends had few options when it came to terror. In order to give themselves some options, and options here means guns, they embarked on a campaign of what they would call expropriation and what the law called simple theft. They would target the homes and property of the wealthy steel **** and use it to buy weaponry. Macnow and his fellow libertarian communists, as they called themselves at this point, drew the ire of local law enforcement quickly. I'm going to quote from Anarchies Cossack here on September 5th, 1906 in GUI. An attack upon the home of the businessman, pledging her by three individuals armed with revolvers with faces blackened. On October 10th, a fresh attack in Gulyai polye upon another businessman, Brooke by 4 individuals, faces concealed by paper masks who, brandishing revolvers and bombs, demanded 500 rubles for the starving. A little later, a third attack upon a wealthy local industrialist, Kerner by 4 individuals, with three more acting as lookouts. In August 1907, in the nearby village of Keicher. A fourth attack upon yet another businessman, Gurevich by 4 individuals wearing sunglasses. And it was this last attack that would get Mocno and his friends in trouble, because they wound up shooting it out with the local cops in order to escape. So little reservoir dogs, it's yeah, you know? Yeah. And again, nester's like 17 at this point when he gets into his first shootout with the cops. Grew up fast. 4th beard. So after, after this, as this, like this ******* crime spree is going another I want to talk about. One other thing that got into was lighting fields on fire and mass, because there was this plan in the wake of the 1905 revolution. The Czar decides that he wants to. He, he wants to create a class of peasants who have money, more money than other peasants like middle class, basically to separate the peasants because they were like one of the things that scared him is that all of the peasants were kind of the same sort of poor together. And that might mean they would rebel together. So he tries to create this group of, like, peasants who own more land and property than the others, called Kulaks, in order to divide them. And Nestor and his friends, like their response to that is to light all of the land of the rich people on fire as much as they possibly can. Yeah. Right. I mean, that's just logic. Yeah, that makes sense. So a police Superintendent named Kariyachan Sev, who's generally described as like gulyai police Sherlock Holmes, starts trying to unravel this anarchist ring, like tries to catch them. And through what movie? This is good? Yeah, yeah, he basically tortures people until he can identify the people who are responsible for the attacks, but he doesn't have any hard evidence and so he doesn't want to arrest them. In 1907, he gets his opportunity though, a member of a political group called the Social Revolutionaries, and this Guy was a friend of mock nose. Borrows Mocno's gun and unfortunately it turns out he borrowed it to murder his fiance and then shoot himself. And this happens like in the middle of a small town. So, like, Mocno runs up to provide medical aid and he gets arrested immediately, and then one of his friends is arrested for trying to send messages to him in jail. And it's like this whole anyway they they wind up in jail and this Sherlock Holmes dude starts interrogating them and trying to break them, but they they there's an anarchist Sherlock Holmes. He's the man. He's the SARS and no OK, so he's the zars Sherlock did. Does did the anarchist get a Sherlock? No, no, that's the problem, isn't it? They do. We'll talk about what happens to Sherlock in a little bit here, but here's what he writes. After trying to interrogate Nestor Machno and his friend, I have never before seen men of this medal. I have plenty of evidence on which to state that they are dangerous anarchists, but although I have put their flesh through a little suffering, I have extracted nothing from them. Magno seems like a peasant dolt when one looks at him. By a very conclusive evidence for claiming that it was he who shot at the gendarmes on August 26th, 1907. Well, now I I have done all I was able to extract admissions, but to no effect. On the contrary, he supplied me with facts which I have checked out and which I have been forced to acknowledge. His correct, demonstrating he was not even in Gullapalli on that day. As for the other one, Anthony, when I interrogated him, having him beaten at will, he dared declare to me you dead meat. You'll never get anything out of me. And yet I gave him a good taste of the swing. So he's like, these ************* won't talk even though I beat the **** out of him. OK, so it's so he is. I mean, you have to admire that, right? If you're. I'm trying, I'm trying to get into Sherlock's head. I don't like this. Sherlock's a government guy. He is. He's a hard. I mean, the other, the actual Sherlock is a government guy. That's true. But at least he did drugs. He did do drugs. I don't know, maybe this guy did drugs. I hope he did drugs. So Mocno and his friends spend 10 months in jail. He turns 18 in jail. And this would not be his last day inside of a cell. He was eventually bailed out. I oddly enough a well off industrialist who was like a friend of his family would hired his family members and by the time Machna was released the heat was on his friends and it was declared for a while that he would avoid breaking the law in order to continue to radicalize and recruit more peasants. So he gets another job as a decorator and he founds an anarchist study group of his own with 25 peasants from becoming a property brother when he needs he loves decorating. I love that Nestor Machno loves two things, shooting it out with the cops and putting together a nice. Living room set. I love that Nestor is out here being like, OK, I know that we're anarchists, but, like, we need to do something with this space. Doesn't mean our throw rugs have to clash with the couch. You know, I feel like people associate too often anarchists with clashing patterns, and I just think that that doesn't need to happen. No. Why not? Why? Like, we can look nice and get into gunfights with the police, OK? Even more so than I want the czar Sherlock Holmes. I want the anarchist Property Brothers. They do want the anarchist because the anarchist Property Brothers is only squatted properties too. Like, a big half of the show is fighting the police off to stop an eviction and then, like, decorating the interior flop. It's not. Yeah, yeah, let's do it. And then this is very, like, relaxed decoration of the spawning spaces. Yeah. So unfortunately, Nestor failed to do he, you know, he starts running his own book club and he fails to do the same kind of strict vetting that his previous group had done for him and his reading circle. Quickly discovers that two of its members are czarist infiltrators and they kill them both like the the the The Reading Circle Murders 2 people who are informing the cops. My mom's my mom circle did that too. It's just pretty common among book clubs. Look, if you if this happens in book clubs all the time, if you are not doing like the correct canonical read of eat, pray, love, you're ******. Yeah, they will ******* shoot you, bury you in a shallow grave. That's how book clubs work. So have you seen? Movie. That's what happens. Yeah, that's the Joy Luck Club, if I'm not mistaken. Also happened in the Drylock club, and it definitely happens in the Jane Fonda one. I got so drunk at that at a screening of book club that I got kicked out of the movie theater. That's the only time that's ever happened to me. Only time. It is. It is. There's times I should have been, but I wasn't, but this time you really can't **** with it. You can't **** with a movie that old people are going to that they want, that you can't be loud. They're going to get you kicked out. I have a good vomiting in a movie theater story, but there's aspects of that story that there's still a statute of limitations on. So we'll continue. So yeah, the the group holds a general meeting to talk things out after, you know, killing two dudes. But it turns out they still had a police infiltrator in their midst, and the meeting was surrounded by heavily armed dawn. Cossacks and members of the local Okhrana, which are like the Zara secret police now, the traitor in their midst, a guy named Lavagne, suggested everyone give themselves up, but Nestor and the actual anarchists in the room decided to have a giant gun fight with the cops. It was dark and they all had pistols, so they ran out shooting and they actually, like surprised the cops surrounding their house enough that they killed the 2nd in command of the local police, several Cossacks and several detectives. One of Mocno's friends, a guy named Simon Utah, is wounded in the leg during the escape, and his brother. Alexander traced to carry him, but they quickly realized that he was slowing them down too much. So the wounded guy volunteers to stay behind, shooting until he has one bullet left and using the last on himself in order to buy time for his friends again. ******** book club. What movie did you throw up at? Sorry, what movie was it? Oh, God, it was a midnight movie. It was like a showing of. I think. I think it was a showing of the what is it? What is it? The ******* Jim Henson movie with the Skeksis and ****. Why is that? Like, no, no, no, not labyrinth. No other one. Star crystal. Dark crystal. That's the one. Dark crystal. Wow. OK, I'll holler the acid, but I was not going to be able to focus until I had an answer there. OK, OK. It was a long time ago. It was a different club is heating up. So the book club is heating up like nine people have died. So this is good. It's an intense book club. Not a lot of people save the last bullet for themselves in a book club. That's true. So. Of course. Uh, so this guy who dies buying time for the other members of the book club? His brother has to avenge his death, and Machno wasn't about to let his friend Da Vinci's brother's death alone. So after they escaped, they figured that since they just killed a bunch of cops, they might as well assassinate the governor. Enough. When you're on a hot streak like that, you know, I get it now and again, everyone involved in this as a teenager. So we are not talking about the best decisions being made at the time, but they're committed. So like that they're able to channel their ***** rage into some productive, yeah, some productive anarchy. And for again, several of the people they kill in the shootout are members of the Okhrana. And for a little bit of knowledge about the cars secret police, the protocols of the Elders of Zion, like the infamous anti-Semitic propaganda piece was created by the Akarana. So, like, ****** dudes. So, like, it's not like they don't sort of have a book club massacre coming, they they absolutely deserve it. Book club massacre. You can tie millions of deaths to that document. Like, OK, yeah. Anyone who's in the akarana, you know, I got no sympathy. So they decide to assassinate the governor. And but the scheme runs into a hitch, which is that because of all of these anarchist teams running around, it had been made illegal for young people to be near the governor. So it's like Eric Garcetti. So no, no, no, no, no. And his friends keep trying to find out ways to get close to the governor, and while they're scouting out, they get caught by another patrol of Cossacks. And again, mocno being mocno. When they realize they've been surrounded by Cossacks, they have another gunfight, and they managed to shoot their way out of a line of cops yet again. They escaped, but not for long. Nestor and his friend are arrested at home soon later. This wound up actually being good for him, because if he'd stayed free, he would have. Absolutely. Kept trying to kill the governor, and he probably would have gotten shot to death doing so. Instead, he just winds up in jail for a while now. This sparks another crackdown on guliani, poli anarchists, and the only two who escape were Antony Mocno's mentor, and Alexander, the brother of the guy who who who died buying time for them. The police considered mocno to be the most dangerous of the young men that they'd actually caught, and they charged him with a ******** of crimes, some of which he definitely committed. Now all of the incarcerated anarchists were taken to prison again while the state prepared. Case against them. And this took over a year. And, like, during this period of time, like, Magna spends a bunch of time in solitary confinement and, like, a cell called the whole, like, it's a terrible place to be. He is not. It's not a nice prison. Yeah. In the meantime, Alexander sneaks back into Ukraine. He, like, flies to Belgium, but he immediately comes back, and he sends a letter to the head detective before he leaves Belgium. Being like, you're never going to catch me. I'm like, to the Sherlock Holmes guy, you never going to catch me? I'm in Belgium now, *************. And then he immediately sneaks back into Ukraine. With two loaded revolvers and he sort of starts stalking the head of the head detective and waits until he goes into a theater and he walks into the theater where the detective is with two loaded revolvers in his pocket. Now he doesn't shoot him during the play because he doesn't want to hit the innocent people, but as the detectives leaving the play, he shoots him three times and kills him and then gets killed in a shoot at himself. Wow, that's the end of the Sherlock Holmes guy. Yeah, Sheryl the well, I mean, you know, it was he was a supernova. I lived briefly, burned brightly, burned brightly. King. So yeah, uh, now Alexander was never able to. He was trying to. He was planning to spring his friends from prison after killing this detective, but obviously he doesn't get a chance to do that. But his sacrifice and his dedication to the cause inspired Nestor for the rest of his life. Mocno's day in court eventually came and he refused to beg for mercy, telling his defense lawyer. We have no intention of asking anything for this. Good for nothing, zar. These rascals have sentenced us to death, so let them hang us. And of course, he was sentenced initially to death. Macnow and his comrades spent months on death row. Lester wrote at the time. Once inside these cells, 1/2 feels that one has climbed down into the grave. One has the feeling that only one straining fingertips are clinging to the surface. And then one thinks of all who, being yet at large, cling to their belief and their hopes, intent upon doing something good and useful in the struggle for a better life. Having sacrificed oneself for this future, one feels flooded by a quite profound and very heartfelt love for one's comrades. In the struggle they seem so near, so dear. One wholeheartedly hopes that they may hold on to their faith and their hopes to the very end. And take their love of the oppressed and their hatred of the oppressors further. Wow. Good prison leather. He's good prison. Like, he's a good ******* right? Yeah, he's a great writer. He can make stuff that's very depressing and boring, sound very motivating. Yeah, he's a guy. He's a great writer for a guy who never fully learns to read or write. Yeah, like he's I I like this guy. I like this guy. He's a likeable dude. So Nestor's best friend and comrade on death row was a guy named Igor Bondarenko, which is another ******* incredible Ukrainian name. Yeah. No, no, no. For some reason, Igor suspected Nestor sentence might get commuted. He claimed he had a premonition and he basically is like, I've had this premonition that you're all going to get executed, you're not going to get executed. You're going to get out and you're going to lift the black Black Flag of anarchy all over this land. You, my brother Nestor, you are to live. I shall surely die. I know that you will regain your freedom and like Nestor's other friends in jail are like, that's never nesters. Too dumb. Like, he's not smart enough to, like, win. Like you're a great guy and Mr you're really good at shooting at the cops, but you're not smart enough to, like, lead a revolution like it couldn't be him. That's that's a that's a great way to motivate someone to just do that. Yeah, OK. They're nagging him a little bit now. This may or may not be, may not be true. We're reliant on Nester's account that all this happened because all of his other friends get executed. So he might have made this up. I don't know. In any case, after 52 days on death row, Mocno was informed that at the pleading of his mother, his sentence had been commuted to hard labor for life. He was dragged off to prison where he would spend 9 years. And this actually wound up being a good thing. See? Prisons. Czarist Russia were basically the equivalent of a graduate degree for revolutionaries, because all of the people who got they there were prisons just for revolutionaries. Stalin spent a bunch of time in one prison. Bingo. Bingo. Bingo. An hour. 10 minutes. First Stalin. Yep, Yep. OK. That's actually pretty far. Wow. Yeah, pretty far. OK, pretty far for talking about, you know, Ukraine. So Stalin, at the same time before, is in a prison for a bunch of bank robberies. And all of these prisons are the same. They're filled with like prisoners who are all revolutionaries and these massive libraries of revolutionary literature that people build up over the years that inmates build up. And so Machno gets to read a bunch like he spends. He is also gets horribly ill, gets pneumonia and **** like it's permanent. Being damaged. So he's in the Infirmary a lot, and he just spends all of his time reading books about, like, anarchist political theory. Uh. The number one book that he encounters during this time is by a guy named Kropotkin. And it's a book called Mutual Aid, which is a book about mutual aid. And he falls in love with the concept and the. But the book, Mutual Aid never left machno side for the rest of his life. He went in and out of the prison Infirmary. You know, he was very sick all of the time. And he he gets very frustrated at the inner prison hierarchy because there were two kinds of. Political prisoners in Russia. There were intellectual prisoners who were like students and sons of noblemen and stuff who got like, who found themselves drawn to left wing politics, but were also rich kids. And the guards treated them very well because class was really baked into everything in Russian. Like, these guys were prisoners, but they were still rich. So, like, you shake their hands and you show them respect. And then there were the poor revolutionaries like Mocno who get the **** kicked out of them, right? And Mocno noticed that these, like rich intellectual revolutionaries would like shake hands with the guards and. Friendly to like the same people who were beating up Machno and his friends and he was like, well, **** these guys. Like, I don't care if they're saying the right ****. Like, yeah, yeah, that's OK. OK. So he he doesn't like, he doesn't like performative politics. We like that for him, like performative politics, I he would be he would be really intense online. Sorry, I'm just thinking I would be in prison. He would not be online. He would, he would. He would have be in prison already just cooking on his like, what would nestors? Online presence. Be like, it would be pretty aggressive. He would have been in prison for things he did this summer. Like, yes, yeah, yeah. So 1914 came and the prisoners were split again by those who still supported Russia in her war with Germany and the internationalists who thought that the War, World War One was just a bunch of rich ******** making poor kids die for politics. And neither Russia or Germany were in the right, like it was just a dumb war and it shouldn't be fought. And Machna was an internationalist. He thought it was stupid for Ukrainian peasants. To die fighting German peasants on behalf of Kings was like, why would we do that? OK, yeah. And then in 1917, while Machna was still behind bars, the revolution happened, the Czars overthrown a vaguely, kind of vaguely socialist Social Democratic interim government under a guy named Krinsky is formed and all the political prisoners are freed. Because there's this. Before, like the Bolsheviks takeover where there's like a Social Democrat, kind of like a socialist quasi thing in charge and their Social Democrats. And there's Bolsheviks and there's anarchists, and they're all arguing about Russia's going to be. But during this. The Czars overthrown and all political prisoners are freed, or at least a bunch of them are, and mocno gets out of jail. Now, on release, he sees a doctor because he's sick as hell. And the doctor is like, you should head to the Crimea, have your lungs treated like you're very ill and mock knows, like the only thing that's going to, like cure my lungs is to take part in the revolution. You know, his exact, his exact statement. Is that the spirit behind that? But I don't. I see him hitting a wall. Yeah, I mean, the revolution was not good for my lungs, but there was less tear gas in those days. Different kind of thing. Counting their ******* blessing. You had to deal with with machine guns. I mean, this is this. This. Is taking place, you know, during the animated movie Anastasia. And so while this is all going on, it's, I think, important, historically important to consider that the the big fat Kelsey grammar cartoon is switching out Meg Ryan, Anastasia, and meanwhile Rasputin lives in hell with his bat. Putin, Rasputin is living in hell with a band at this point. Yeah, yeah, so. Yeah. So he mocno kind of considered throwing himself into the revolution, you know, or throwing himself into the Moscow part of the revolution. And he spends a little bit of time, like, with Moscow based anarchists. But he keeps getting these letters from his mom, who's like, you know, you're out of prison, you should come see your family. And he eventually decides, all right, I'll go home and I'll do a revolution there. So he's 27 years old. When he finally sets foot in his hometown again for the first time in a decade or nearly a decade, his neighbors showed up in Moss to greet him. Calling him a man back from the dead. Somehow Machno sensed that this was a moment he could use, and he started questioning his fellow villagers about their receptiveness to libertarian ideas. Now, in modern terms, that sounds like he's trying to talk to them about how age of consent laws should be lowered. But libertarian meant a different thing back then. So I OK, yeah, unpack that for me. Yeah, the word libertarian started out as an anarchist term, a left-leaning term. Like if you were a libertarian in 1917, you were a leftist. If you weren't an anarchist, you were like very close to 1. That stopped thanks to a guy like that. Stopped thanks to a dude named Murray Rothbard, who brought the term libertarian into American politics in order to make it a right wing term. And Murray Rothbard is why the word libertarian now means a guy with a collection of fedoras and another collection of gas station katanas. I was like, what? How did this, how did this thing I agree with become my uncle? Yeah, preaching the Gospel of Gary Johnson at every available opportunity? That's Murray rothbard. He's. It turns out he's what turns libertarian, from shooting it out with the czar's secret police to gas station Kitana collection. So Rothbard is basically a corporate fascist. He believed the state should be dissolved in all of its services, should be provided for profit by corporations. He's trash, and he carried out a very successful campaign to convince dudes who liked guns and not being told what to do that licking the boots of billionaires was true freedom in his book the betrayal of the American Right? Yeah, it really does. In his in his book, The Betrayal of the American right, Murray Rothbard. Work wrote. One gratifying aspect of our rise to some prominence is that for the first time in my memory we our side has captured a crucial word from the enemy. Libertarians had long been simply a polite word for left wing anarchists. That is, for anti private property anarchists, either of the Communist or syndicalist variety. But now we had taken it over. He he's he's very conscious about what he's done and that's why. Like, like, Mocno considers himself a libertarian, but Mocno is not what we would consider a libertarian today. Here's what some folks in northeast Syria might consider a libertarian, but I honestly, I still to this day have such a struggle understanding what libertarianism means, depending on who's talking to me about it. Yeah, totally. But I I grew up being told I'm like, oh, libertarians. They're just ******* weirdos that think everyone should have a plow. That's how I that's what I learned. Libertarian, that is the kind of libertarian mocno is, is like everyone should work for themselves and for their community and no one should have to see bias. That's my. But then yeah. OK, OK. I've got, I've got. I guess I have to learn more about libertarians. That doesn't sound good to say out loud. Yeah, I mean, there's good these libertarians. It's good to learn about because these so modern libertarians are like, these are states bad. We shouldn't have the state telling us things. Rich people should tell us what to do. And machine was like, club libertarians are good. No one. Yeah, the book club libertarians are. No one should tell you what to do. And if they tell you what to do, you should shoot them in the face like, sick. Yeah, let's do it. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, Mocno meets all of his old friends and neighbors and he's like, have you guys heard about libertarianism? And instead of following up, I again ranting about age of consent laws like Murray Rothbard. Could have done. Machno starts explaining his newly educated analysis of their situation. As he told his fellow peasants, the libertarian movement nationwide was weak and not cohesive. The Social Democrats and the Bolsheviks were by far the most organized, and that was not good because they were just going to recreate some form of oppressive hierarchy that Ukrainians would have to live under. Anarchists needed to be the vanguard of mass revolutionary action, and Nestor figured, why not start that in Gulyai polye now? It's a mark of how charismatic he was that basically everyone in his like. Hometown who turns out to see him? It's like, yeah, I guess that makes sense. Like we just got rid of the Czar. Why not make sure nobody else tells us what to do now? Mocno has no army at this point, and his old comrades are all dead by peer force of personality. He convinces his neighbors to establish a local peasants union with delegates to represent them. This inspired different groups within the village to organize, and soon the metal workers and the woodworkers had unions of their own. Someone suggested the peasants should pool their money to set up a contingency fund to help members of the community who had accidents or fell into misfortune. All this happened? Yeah. It's yeah. It's very quickly too. This is great. Yeah. Yeah. And before long, the village decides to elect a chairman and Mocno tells them this is a bad idea and he doesn't want the job, but they elect him anyway. And basically he accepts the position because he's like, if I if someone else gets this, we'll start having political parties form and then everything's going to go to ****. So I'll just take the job and not do it. And that that that's that's his reasoning at least. So within a few weeks he pushes through a vote to have the estates of all the large local land owners handed back to the peasants with no payment or compensation to the rich people. Now this ****** off the Social Democrats in the Big city near Gullapalli a place called Alexandrova. They supported a buyback policy not wildly different from the one the serfs had been granted. The peasants, though, love Nestor Machno, and many of them decided that if anarchism meant they got to run their own lives and not have landlords, well, **** maybe they were anarchists. Now, it's worth noting how different nester's tactics were from most of the other anarchist organizers in Russia at the time. They tended to devote their efforts to creating committees and clubs and debating with one another, rather than traveling out to the peasant masses and converting them. By doing Nester couldn't stand intellectuals. He preferred to get his hands dirty and actually change things. When he was young, that change had come from, you know, shooting out with the police. Now that he was nearing 30, he was working alongside his neighbors to transform their home into something better. Mocno and his comrades, who now made-up most of the town, disarmed. The local militia and deputized the police force. They're just like go up to the cops and they ****. You're not the police anymore. Give us your guns and the police go, Oh no, his beard so big we better listen to what he says. Well, basically, so the cops that he did, the cops that people don't have a problem with, get to stay on as unarmed town criers because they're like, hey, you guys who weren't ****** we're you don't get guns anymore. But like, you can be town criers, like we've got some use for you. We're not going to just murder everybody that we used to have an issue with because that doesn't seem like a good. Good thing to start doing. And the arms of the police and the militia that are confiscated get handed to citizens who started to form would become a democratic militia geared towards self-defense rather than, you know, beating people for reading the wrong books. Right now, while all this is happening, Russia is still in a very bad position because this is that awkward. Where they've had their they've overthrown the czar and they're kind of in the start of a civil war, but they're also still in World War One, fighting the Germans, even though nobody who overthrew the Czar still wanted to really be fighting the Germans. And in August of 1917, a guy named General Kornilov, who's an anti Bolshevik general, intent on and throwing overthrowing the socialist regime that had taken over from the jar and replacing it with probably the monarchy or something. Again. He starts like advancing on Alexandra's the big the capital city near Goliad policy and committees for self-defense Start being created all over Russia and Ukraine. And of course Mocno became chairman of the Committee for self-defense of Gullapalli now his solution to stopping the counter Revolution was quote disarming. The entire local bourgeoisie and abolishing its rights over the People's Assets, Estates, factories, workshops, printing works, theaters, cinemas and other public enterprises which would henceforth be placed under collective control of the workers. His defense committee is like, yeah, we'll do this. So they all vote to do this. But then General Kornilov gets defeated and the moderate regime that was in charge of Russia and Ukraine at the time was like, hey guys, that's too radical. You can't take all of the rich people stuff. Like we're Democrats, we're we don't want the car, but we're not going to let you take all the rich people stuff. So what year are we in at this? This is 1917. OK, OK, this is happening. This is starting to like overlap with some of the the Nabokov history that I cover. OK, cool. Yeah. Bob is an in all this ****. Like, he's alive for a lot of this, right. He is around, yeah, he's around until he he ends up going to Germany in I think 1918. But he's around this story. A bunch of Germans come here and then Nestor has to shoot them. Yeah. Synergy. Synergy. So like Mocno gets told by the government after this general gets defeated, like, hey, your plan to take all of the weapons and property from the rich people is too radical. And mock knows like, well, **** you. So he and all he organizes. Fellow peasants to have a rent strike, and so they just stopped paying rent, and they're like, this is our land now, and we're going to take all of your livestock and equipment from the landlords acting on their own much I have a crush on. He's *******. He's ******* cool. Acting on their own, the peasants of GUI Poley collectivized the enormous estates of the wealthy and started forming farming communes, each of around 200 people. Communal life was seen by Mocno as the highest form of social justice, and some land owners even came around to the idea and joined communes. Others were less than pleased with the changes and we'll talk about them later. Probably most of them were less than pleased. But there were some people who were like, OK, you're taking my land and giving it to everyone else. But like, yeah, this actually is fine. Again, a minority, but it does happen. And it's it's important to note that he is not like we're going to murder the landlords. He's like, we don't need to kill them. We're just taking everything from them. And they can be part of society or not if they want to, right? This is yeah, it's like there's there's less lenient policies than that. So. Especially in Russia in this. Yeah, just say I'm like, well, I guess, yeah, that's that's a pretty chill approach. Yeah. So is 1918 rolls around life and GULLAPALLI has changed massively as this write up from an article in describes. In addition to his political work, he was based on a collective farm working at type of plow called a butcher. His coworkers at the time he states included German colonists and former land owners who had accepted the redistribution of land. Macnow's memoir describes the administrative and political machinations of the Ukrainian. Pollution, with a detail that suggests veracity. Under the direction of the Revcom the revolutionary like committee, he explains, ex soldiers from the front began moving all the implements in livestock, from the estates of the rich and large farms to a central holding area. The idea was not to exact revenge upon the wealthy, but to equitably distribute wealth. Landlords and wealthier farmers were, quote, left with two pairs of horses, one or two cows depending on the size of the family, 1 plow, 1 seeding machine, one mower, one winnowing machine, etcetera. Needless to say, this equitable redistribution. Is not voluntary. So again, you don't have a choice. We're taking your stuff, but we're not trying to starve your family like you get as what everyone else has. Yeah, it's just healthier redistribution. OK, now, again, was not voluntary, but was not bloody either. While there were mass killings in parts of Russia during this period of land owners, Gullapalli was so far quite peaceable, as were most of the surrounding areas. One contemporary newspaper article describes how the village looked during this first flowering of anarchy. It was, quote, like a painting. Therapy in exotic Gowdy unusual. The Magnevist swore colorful shirts, wide pants and wide red belts, which reached down to the ground. All of them were armed to the teeth. The Property Brothers could never OK, never. Another writer who hated Mocno and what he turned to gullapalli into adds that quote. All night there was music and dancing mixed with the shrieks of gay women. OK, no matter which way you spin it, that sounds like a ******* blast. Sounds *******. Everybody's ******* strapped in dancing. Pretty cool town, yeah. Sounds like these writers are absolute haters who don't know how to have fun. Yeah, lot of haters in the mocno story, and that is part one. Part 2 is going to be a lot more violent, but yeah, well, part of it I had. I'm glad. Yeah, blast in part one. Yeah, part one. Hard not to be on mocno side at this, you know, really most stages of this. Vibes are good. Vibes are good. So, Jamie, you got any things to plug before we take a quick break? And then Part 2, I guess some holiday plugs you can if you if you want to happy option. You can listen to Sandy University that comes out on Christmas Eve and I think it's the daily zeitgeist feed. And if you want to have a terrible Christmas and Cry Cry Cry. You can listen to Lolita podcast which covers. The different area of this same portion of history this Christmas celebrate being separated from your family by listening to a story about a book about child molestation. Isn't that I mean, it's a great why not? I am caught up currently and very angry that you don't have another episode for me today. Oh well, you're. I mean, you're performing the hell out of Nabokov. Thank you, thank you. Except right mispronounced that. That Lion girl's name. It is spelled Lyon. Like, ******* hell it is. But you combined it to sound like it was like you were saying Beyoncé. Like I was saying beyond like the city in France. Julianne. Ohk. OK, see, that's that's fancier. That's the same way. OK. I, I I maintain she pronounced her own name wrong. Well, it's it's episode 3 if you want to hear it. Put your Robert absolutely demolished this poor dead woman's name. There's a place for you to go. If you wanna demolish a poor dead woman's name. Follow us on Twitter. Have a good Christmas the episode. ******* over, baby. Hello, I'm Erica Kelly from the podcast Southern Fried True crime, and if you want to go from podcast fan to podcast host, do what I did and check out spreaker from iheart. 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