Behind the Bastards

There’s a reason the History Channel has produced hundreds of documentaries about Hitler but only a few about Dwight D. Eisenhower. Bad guys (and gals) are eternally fascinating. Behind the Bastards dives in past the Cliffs Notes of the worst humans in history and exposes the bizarre realities of their lives. Listeners will learn about the young adult novels that helped Hitler form his monstrous ideology, the founder of Blackwater’s insane quest to build his own Air Force, the bizarre lives of the sons and daughters of dictators and Saddam Hussein’s side career as a trashy romance novelist.

Part One: Jeffrey Epstein: Pimp to the Powerful

Part One: Jeffrey Epstein: Pimp to the Powerful

Tue, 19 Mar 2019 10:00

Part One: Jeffrey Epstein: Pimp to the Powerful

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My name is Alex Fumero and I host the new podcast more than a movie, American Me, a film directed by and starring Edward James Olmos. I'll be diving into the behind the scenes controversy, including an alleged backlash from the Mexican mafia. Several people who worked on the movie have been murdered. I don't want to speak about why would people be murdered for being in a movie. Listen to more than a movie, American me on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. My name is Lauren Ober, and in addition to being a charming podcast host, I am also a newly diagnosed autistic person. My new show, the loudest girl in the world, is all about my weird, winding path to diagnosis. My decision at age 42 to finally get evaluated for autism. Listen to the loudest girl in the world on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Peace to the planet I go by the name of Charlemagne the God, and this summer I'm bringing my show back to Comedy Central with a new title and a new podcast. It's called hell of a week, but don't worry, every Friday I'll be keeping that same calling out the ******** energy, and I'll have some of the biggest names in comedy, politics and entertainment with me. So if the news is terrorizing your timeline and causing your anxiety to rise, hide in gas prices. Don't worry, we got you. Listen to hell of a week with charlamagne the God on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, everybody, I'm Robert Evans. This is behind the ******** the podcast where we tell you everything you don't know about the very worst people in all of history. And today, as a guest on my show, I have one of the best people in comedy history, Daniel O'Brien, my once and perhaps future Boss Guy who I was the intern for and mentor all those things, Daniel. I know. Yeah, that's it. That's quite an intro. Thank you for for all of that. I will just so there are no dangling cliffhangers. Or anything like that once and future. But I don't think I'm ever gonna be a boss again. For the rest of my life I'm having been a boss and having now like not be a boss anymore. It's better this way. It's way better not being a boss. It's pretty great. I mean I'm I'm I'm talking about more when the the the Civil War gets sparked off and you wind up leading a leading a crude militia in Hell's Kitchen to fight for the liberation of the East Coast from the the tyrannical Midwest. That seems fair. I think whenever a revolution happens, it seems likely that I'll I'll find myself somewhere in middle management. Field. Feels right. Well, Dan, Speaking of middle management, that's not what we're talking about today, but we are talking about a really famous child molester. I knew I was going to have my friend and and former colleague expert on many different Presidents, author of the book How to Fight Presidents, so many exciting people we could have talked about, and I picked Jeffrey Epstein, OK? Soon to be president. Soon to be president. Very closely tied to two presidents at least. Yeah. So are you. Are you. You ready? You ready for this, Stan? I'm ready. I've got a slight heads up on who the top, who the person was, and it was one of those names that I knew very little about. Just enough to know that they were bad and deliberately chose not to do any research on it so I could be surprised and horrified and and hopefully. Ask you questions that your dumbest listeners will have. That is what I what I want from my guests is for them to be surprised and horrified. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna get into this story because, well, I didn't know anything about this guy either other than like, you know, you hear the odd story here and there about him. You know, he's a creep. Yeah, he's way more than just a creep. So let's, let's strap in and and tell this tale. So, OK, on December 4th, 2016, Edgar Madison Welch, a 28 year old man from Madison, NC, walked into Washington. Macy's Comet Ping pong pizza parlor with an AR15. He fired three shots into the restaurant as part of a poorly conceived scheme to, in his own words, self investigate the Pizzagate conspiracy theory. That conspiracy theory, which had its origins in the 2016 election, states that the Clintons and their longtime supporter John Podesta were at the center of a giant child rape and sex slave ring. Comet Ping Pong was believed to be a Nexus point of this international child slave trade. The theory has evolved and merged with other conspiracy theories and is now part of the orbit of the Qanon conspiracy theory. There's a general sense among many in the far right that global elites are part of a gigantic. Satanic pedophilic conspiracy. They are wrong about that. But they aren't 100% wrong about the idea that an alliance of powerful people are having sex with underage individuals because that totally happened, and today. We're going to talk about the man who's at the Nexus of a real honest to God. Global child molesting conspiracy. He has nothing to do with comet Ping pong or John Podesta and his victims were teenagers and not the little kids that the pedo gate conspiracy theories tend to focus on. But yeah, today we're talking about Jeff Epstein. So, OK, that is, that's that's a journey of an introduction there. Yeah. I yeah, I found a Q Anon flyer on my run today. This before coming in this morning. So I've, I've had this conspiracy theory about child molesting global elites on the brain. That's bound to happen. Yeah. December 4th, Bad Day, not a good date. What else happened on December 4th? Is that a real question? Yes, you, me, and 25 of our closest friends and coworkers. Oh my God, you're right. That was December 4th. I mean, not as bad as the shooting, the pizza place. Yeah thing. But but, you know, December 4th, bad date. No one died in that shooting. So I'm gonna say is bad, OK? We all lost healthcare. Ohh, it's good to laugh now. It's good to laugh now. I had forgotten to date because of all of the drinking. Sure. So Jeffrey Edward Epstein was born on January 20th, 1953 in Brooklyn, NY. Brooklyn. Brooklyn? Yeah, not the proudest son of Brooklyn. His wiki currently describes him as an American financier, science and research philanthropist and registered sex offender. His money? Notes on how Wikipedia orders things. Sex offender in the middle or first. I want it first. I think I want it first. I think you start with research. Philanthropist, sex offender. Financier. Science philanthropist. Yeah, that's that's my order. I don't want them trying to like. Free. Make me like him. You know, like the sex better thing people are gonna get. They're not going to like this. So how can we soften this blow before they get there? Ohh, philanthropist. That's a broadly good word, right? Philanthropist and ******. So Epstein was raised in Coney Island. The Guardian describes him coming up in a tough Brooklyn neighborhood. I'm not sure if that's how you describe Coney Island now, but that's how it was at the time. Apparently. According to a Vanity Fair article I read, he and his family were kind of solidly middle class. His father worked for the city's Parks Department. His parents saw education as the way out for Jeffrey and his brother. They put him in piano classes at age 5. He was a bright student, graduating from Brooklyn's Lafayette High School with fantastic grades and mathematics. And science. From 1969 to 1971, Cohen started taking college courses at Cooper Union, focusing mostly on physics. He left for NYU's Courant Institute after that, and took classes on the mathematical Physiology of the heart. Epstein was clearly smart and very interested in a variety of obscure scientific and mathematical disciplines. He never quite found a subject he could focus on for more than a year or two at a time, though, and he left Corn Institute without getting a degree. So, so far I'm on board. So, so far, pretty good. Although I questioned his parents, like I I agree that. On education being the way out of poverty and into a better life or one of the ways, but still question like you're on that track. Education is going to save our son. Let's also throw him in piano lessons like that, like. How many famous rich piano players are there? Still just the three? Yeah, it's still just Elton John and two guys I can't name. Yeah, Billy Joel and Mahershala Ali's character from Green Book is that. I feel bad that I forgot Billy Joe. You should feel bad. She's bad. I unironically love Billy Joel. No, I mean, so do I, man. It's a yeah. Good night. Saigon's a great *** song you should get him as a guest on this show. I would love to have Billy Joel as a guest on he's Antifa now if you didn't hear the interview. Is that really? Yeah. He did an interview with Vice after the the Charlottesville March where he was like, I don't understand why more people aren't hitting Nazis. Oh **** yeah, Billy Joel. Yeah, he's great. OK, so in his early 20s, Epstein got a job teaching physics at the Dalton School, a Manhattan private school, he taught physics and math to the children of the rich and powerful. A number of fawning articles from before Epstein's crimes were public knowledge gave glowing accounts of his mysterious back story. One of those fawning articles was published by New York Magazine in 2002. Its title, the International Money Man of Mystery, gets across how Epstein was generally viewed. Here's how it described his transition from high school teacher to financier. By most accounts, he was something of a Robin Williams and dead Poet society type figure, wowing his high school classes with passionate mathematical riffs. So impressed was one Wall Street father of a student that he said to Epstein, point blank, what are you doing teaching math at Dalton? You should be working on Wall Street. Why don't you give my friend Ace Greenberg a call? So what? What year did you say this was? This is it's kind of unclear, but it's like 197576 when this happened. OK, yeah. So Ace Greenberg was a senior partner at Bear Stearns. You may remember from the whole the that time the economy collapsed, Umm, yeah, that they were they were bad time. Yeah, pretty big part of that now. Greenberg was a legendary trader in his own right and has long made it clear that the He basically famous for picking out what he described as like hungry and brilliant guys. So he liked finding like, poor, smart people and then giving them jobs and trading because he figured that they do better than like rich kids, which is probably a good strategy. And it worked out for Epstein. In 1976, he joined the firm. He started off as a junior assistant to the floor trader at the American Stock Exchange and according to most accounts, his ascent was rapid, New York magazine quoted former Bear Stearns CEO Jimmy Kane as saying of Epstein. He was not your conventional broker saying buy IBM or sell Xerox. Given his mathematical background, we put him in our special products division where he would advise our wealthier clients on the tax implications of their portfolios. He would recommend certain tax advantageous transactions. He's a very smart guy and has become a very important client for the firm as well. So most coverage of Epstein's rise to power and wealth are vague about his time at Bear Stearns. They just say he rose quickly and then left suddenly a couple of years later to found his own company. Now, Vanity Fair published a much better article on Epstein in 2003, which did a more thorough job of investigating his back story. According to that reporting, his rise at Bear Stearns was literally the opposite of meteoric. It looks like Epstein was forced out of the company as part of an insider trading scandal in March of 1981. Several Italian and Swiss investors were found guilty in the. C questioned Epstein over the matter. It's kind of unclear exactly how he's involved, but he resigned one day after the violation occurred. So yeah, that's that's the the real story of his time in Bear Stearns. That's good. I like when crime sort of line up with my level of understanding them, where everyone is like, we're not exactly, we can't figure out what kind of crime you did, but it's bad and you have to go away now. Yeah. He certain you're guilty of something with money? Get out of here. You did something you shouldn't have had to pay a $2500 fine. And it it's really unclear to me exactly what he did. It's one of those things I've read, like 3 explanations of it and I'm like, OK, finance crime, lame, finance crime. OK, got it. Now, for years, up until about 2005, the reporting on Epstein mostly focused on his utter brilliance as a financier. That Vanity Fair article was titled the Talented Mr Epstein. The introduction to the New York magazine article was even more fawning. So this is the introduction to Jeffrey Epstein, international Money Man of Mystery. He's pals with a passel of Nobel Prize winning scientists. CEOs like Leslie Wexler have limited socialite Kissane Maxwell and even Donald Trump. But it wasn't until he flew Bill Clinton, Kevin Spacey and Chris Tucker to Africa on his private Boeing 727 that the world began to wonder who he is. So so. Do we need to? Just by association, do we need to look into Chris Tucker? There's something that we might need to look into. Chris Tucker. We definitely need to look into Kevin Spacey. Yeah, I mean, that's like, I know right now that that plane is full of mostly monsters and Chris Tucker. And so I just just is poor Chris Tucker just some guy who got caught up with some bad people? Or is he, like, this is my crew, this is we. I were on a plane with my buddies, and we all do the same terrible stuff. See, that's one of the terrifying things of the Jeff Epstein story, because no matter who you are, someone you think is awesome has wound up in close proximity to him, and it's impossible to know if they did something terrible. Ohh, that's not great. No, it's just really bad. So no one really seems to know how Epstein went from the guy who got forced out of Bear Stearns for insider trading to the billionaire who flew Bill Clinton and Kevin Spacey and Chris Tucker to Africa as part of a charity in 2002. We don't really know how that happened. It's kind of a mystery. Epstein's became famous starting in the 1990s as a man who would only work for rich people whose assets were worth more than a billion dollars. So it basically jumped right from a or at least his claim is that he jumped right from, you know, Bear Stearns to I only manage the finances of billionaires and like, did that in the space of less than a decade and nobody really knows how. So that's that's the the basics of it. When journalists would write articles about him during this. They would interview people who would tell stories about. Unnamed plutocrats worth 500 million or 700 million who supposedly reached out to Epstein and gotten turned down for being too small beans when asked. And also when you say he went from Bear Stearns to billionaires and no one knows how it happened, this is. I know you're a factual show. I feel like I could say this. There's a zero chance that it was for good reasons, right? There's a zero chance that was for zero chance that people are just like, he's just the sweetest here. Remembers my kids birthday. I I kind of feel like that might be the case with anyone who manages the money of billionaires. Yeah, like I feel like there's no billionaires. Like I love my tax guy because he's so fair. I love my tax guy because he overthrew the government of that one country that I was using as a tax shelter. He blew up the journalist who wrote the Panama Papers with a car bomb. Now when he was reached out to like asked about how he had sort of turned into the guy who only works for billionaires and made that into a business, Epstein would say stuff like quote I was the only person crazy enough or arrogant enough or misplaced enough to make my limit a billion dollars or more. So he would just claim it is like I was so bold that it like impressed people and that's why they started giving me their business. Which is again, it's remarkable how many journalists just ran with this story for like 20 years. And we're just like, I guess that's what happened. He was set in the 90s to manage more than $15 billion in assets, which would mean he was taking in close to 100 million a year just in commissions. He described his job as being like an architect, helping the very wealthy maintain the stability of their portfolio so they would never wind up not rich ever again. Now, Epstein's claims about how he got to this point are that in 1982, after leaving Bear Stearns, he opened his own company, Jay Epstein and company, and somehow, despite being new to the industry, he immediately amassed a stable of billionaire clients. According to New York magazine quote, there were no Rd shows, no whizbang marketing demos. Just this Jeff Epstein was open for business with those $1 billion plus. I want people to understand the power, the responsibility, and the burden of their money, he said to a colleague at the time. As a teacher at Dalton, he had witnessed first hand the troubled attitudes of some of the poor little rich kids under his charge. At Bayer, he had come to the realization that, counterintuitively, the more money you had, the more anxious you became. For a middle class kid from Brooklyn, it just didn't make sense. So podcast listeners can't tell. Well, this is an uh, an audio format, but you're listening at home. My dog is sitting on my lap and he just did a huge **** *** motion with his paw for a while at the sound of poor little rich kids. And also the burden of lots of money. The burden of lots of money. What? What a great burden that would be. The burden of going to the doctor regularly. Yeah, let me, let me check in with those guys. You tired? You need some help with your burden. You need someone to lighten that load for you. I have some suggestions. Now the first journalist who actually do a not completely garbage job of writing about Jeffrey Epstein where they just repeated all of his his his ******** and talked about how nice his house was. And we will talk about his house a little bit, but the first journalist who actually dig into it was a reporter named Vicki Ward with Vanity Fair. She actually dug into his finances and found evidence that for one, Epstein worked with a ton of non billionaire clients during the 1980s and 90s. She found a 1989 deposition in which he testified. Under oath, that 80% of his business was not helping billionaires, but helping people find money that had been stolen by fraudulent brokers and lawyers. They also found a lawsuit against him in 1982 which said that he received $450,000 from a client worth $4.5 million to invest in oil and promptly lost all of it may recognize four and a half, $1,000,000 as less than a billion dollars. So I do recognize that. Thank you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. Math is nobody's strong suit on this podcast. I run the numbers twice. Uh now Vanity Fair writer Vicki Ward interviewed some people who'd been friends with Epstein during since the 1980s. These people recalled that after his Bear Stearns. Rather than jumping right into billionaire money management, Epstein was a self-described bounty hunter recovering lost and stolen money for a variety of clients. He had a license to carry a handgun in New York City, which is a really hard thing to do, like the hardest gun related license to get in this country. Yeah, yeah, it's cool. You don't get a carry license in New York City unless you're really rich. Or the governor's OK or the OR the OR the really rich governor that it currently. Yeah yeah yeah. Anyway now can I just ask what the what the name of the article that was Vicki Lord. Yeah. Her article was the talented Mr Epstein. OK. It was a play on the talented Mr. Right it's it's continuing the theme of late 90s movies about Jeff Epstein for some reason that was that was the only way to rate a title back then. Yeah yeah. Yeah. Looking forward to Epstein and love, Finn, Red Epstein, Epstein 2 when nature calls. Yeah, yeah. What's the story about that flight to Africa? Bam brought it, brought it around. So it's clear that Epstein's rise to billionaire financier was not as smooth as he presents it. It's almost impossible to unwrap exactly how Epstein got so rich and precisely what he did. But we do know that either in 1989 or 1986, he started up a friendship with Lex Wexler, the billionaire founder of Victoria's Secret, among other retail companies. By the time people started writing about Epstein, he managed virtually all of Wexler's money. Now, most coverage at this time focused on his connection to Wexler as an explanation. Or how Epstein rose to prominence. Taken that way, his rise is the story of a brilliant and unorthodox funds manager who proved himself so invaluable to 1 billionaire that he soon became the go to money guy of the incredibly rich. But there is no hard evidence that this is the case either. Even Epstein's friends at the time, including Tiffany and Company CEO Rosa Monckton, admitted that there was something strange about Jeffrey's background. So this is what she told Vanity Fair quote he's very enigmatic. You think you know him, and then you peel off another ring of the onion skin and there's something else extraordinary underneath. He never reveals his hand. Is a classic iceberg. What you see is not what you get. So can we talk about? They can't be. This can't be an original thought. When you peel back a layer of an onion, it's more onion. It is more onion. It's never a surprise. It's the same. Never. Like, you don't peel an onion and it's like there's seeds and fruit in here. It's just more ******* onion. Well, Daniel, I don't know. Sometimes you peel back an onion and you find an iceberg. OK? Yes. And then behind with iceberg is a different hand of poker, right? Yeah. This horse is just the tip of the onion. I get it. Part of why Epstein was able to remain so enigmatic may have been the fact that he threatened the journalists who wrote about him. That is at least the allegation made in Vicki Ward's Vanity Fair article. She notes that a reporter she talked to told her that they were threatened three times during the preparation of a piece. The threats quote were delivered in a jocular tone, but the message was clear. There will be trouble for your family. If I don't like the article, I'm not really sure how you deliver that in a jocular tone. Slap on the back and I'm going to kill your wife. Yeah, your daughter's name. Susan, right? Weird how I know that. Look at these pictures of her school. People who view Epstein as a financial genius tend to say that he was made by Wexler. Epstein, for his part, is too prideful to give anyone person credit for his rise. He claims he had other rich accounts that he managed before being put in charge of Wexler's fortune. But Vanity Fair found another Epstein connection that suggests a somewhat less savory jump start to his fortune. Stephen Jude Hoffenberg met Jeffrey Epstein in London at some point in the 1980s. Hoffenberg was the head of the Towers Financial Corporation, which was, on paper, a collection agency that bought debts. People owed to hospitals, banks, and other institutions. In reality, the company was a gigantic Ponzi scheme. Hoffenberg used the company funds to pay off early investors and buy himself mansions and homes, as well as a small fleet of jet planes. When Epstein and Hoffenberg met, the former had been running a small consulting company out of his apartment. He'd just been ousted from Bear Stearns and, in Hoffenberg's words, was getting into trouble. Hoffenberg hired Epstein on as a consultant. At the time the Vanity Fair article was published 2003, it was unclear exactly what Epstein did for Tower financial. But what is clear is that the SEC came down on the company hard. Hoffenberg was charged with running a $450 million Ponzi scheme, one of the largest in American history, and was sentenced to 20 years in prison. He has more recently claimed that Epstein was behind the entire Ponzi scheme and was in fact the architect of it, but somehow managed to escape prosecution. But that's only in the last like year or two. OK. Seems like he made his money from a pyramid scheme. Yeah, I that's that's fine at a certain point. When you're dealing with lots and lots of money and people with no conscience, I can't even understand the crimes that they're doing anymore. I just. Like, this person took a lot of money from a lot of other people and lied to people. And there were jets and planes and consulting and was like, OK, yeah, money, money, money, money, crime, crime, crime. That's fine. I, I, I will never make enough money to either commit one of these schemes or be taken in by one of them. So I I feel I'm protected there, but it's just. Again, same thing with like Bernie Madoff, where I'm just dimly aware that he did a bad thing, but I can't like, if you put a gun to my head right now. It was like, give me a 5 paragraph essay. Yeah, Bernie Madoff's crimes, and if if this was on to it, he was just a guy who became a billionaire because he did some insider training and ran a Ponzi scheme and then lied about how he became a billionaire. He wouldn't be interesting. But the fact of the matter is that Epstein, there was something else going on in this entire. Hmm. That may be. Are we gonna get into this philanthropy now or what? Yeah, yeah, we're talking philanthropy. So we're going to talk about Jeffrey Epstein sexual crimes and how they may be tied to the gigantic and possibly inexhaustible fortune that he still maintains to this day. But first. It's an ad pivot, Dan. Ohh ****. Yeah, yeah, some of those. ****. Alright. Some of those tasty, tasty ads, which I can promise all our listeners are are not Ponzi schemes. Although I don't know what a Ponzi scheme is. They could be. Yeah, they could be. That feels like a crazy thing to promise your listeners. You're right. Like I believe that you spent. Two weeks reading international money, man of mystery and doing lots of research for this episode. I don't believe that you thoroughly vetted like a belt company that's going to advertise on the podcast so it's not attack the belt companies, Daniel. No, I mean, I I don't know what a policy scheme is. That's all I can say. Oh boy, this this ad pivot has gone off the rails. Stan. Products. Being a real estate agent isn't about listing houses, it's about connecting to people. I need to find new buyers every day, so I promote my listings using radio commercials from Now every time I have an open house, it's a full house. A custom radio ad from iheart AD builder is the fast, affordable way to drive customers to your business. Put the power of radio to work for you. Get started now at iheart More than a movie, American Me is a new podcast that digs into the history and mystery of American Me, a film directed by and starring Edward James Olmos that had a huge impact on Latino cinema and culture. I'm your host, Alex Fumero, and I'll be diving into the behind the scenes controversy, including an alleged backlash from the Mexican mafia. Several people who worked on the movie have been murdered and even today people are still scared to talk about the film. Everything else, I mean, you know? I don't want to speak about it. And we had to sign a paper saying that if we were taken hostage that they would not bargain for us. Eddie, and he said that he had permission to do the bill. So I don't know where it got lost in translation. Learn about what really went down from the people that were there. Listen to more than a movie American me that's part of the mic was through a podcast network available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Your miraval mate courage already runs in your blood. He needs to be stopped. We've been silent and complacent for far too long. Sisters of the Underground is a new scripted series about fearless women exploring the life and legacy of the Mirabal sisters, Dominican women who were brave enough to challenge decades of oppression. Together, they led their country toward a revolution against Rafael Trujillo, the brutal dictator who ruled the Dominican Republic for 30 years. Please, please help us has blood on his hands. From executive producers Dania Ramirez and Eva Longoria. That's me comes the powerful retelling of this all too relevant narrative. Listen to sisters of the underground as part of Michael Tura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We're back. We still don't know what a Ponzi scheme is or what a belt is because I have worn nothing but sweatpants for the last six months. That's true, yeah, Sophie. Sophie shaking her head because she has not seen me in another pair of pants. Every year or so, I find a pair of sweatpants that looks just enough like real pants that I feel like I can get away with wearing them every day. And then I do. Yeah, they don't. I know. Everyone knows I'm wearing pajamas, but yeah, I I don't think I've seen you in sweatpants. I've seen you in pajama pants, and I've seen, like, different weird pants. You you got a bunch of weird pants. I do that. I that I that I I find alienating. Right? Eccentric painting. I've had a number of those. Yeah, well, we all go through stages in our lives. Nope. You had that whole sleeveless shirt. Yeah, it was hot. It did give me the courage to to to go Suns out, guns out. So I thank you for that, Dan. Now let's talk about horrible sex crimes. Jeff Epstein's sex crimes were not public knowledge until 2005, but he spent the entirety of the early 2000s, and probably the 1990s as well, committing them maybe even further back. We don't really know how far back his crimes go, but I think now is a prudent time to get into some detail about what exactly Jeff Epstein was up to the Miami Herald, which published a massive investigation at Epstein. Just this year describes his activities as a sort of sexual pyramid scheme. And I do know what a pyramid scheme is. OK? Is that not a Ponzi scheme? I don't think so, Dan, but I don't know. I didn't do that research. I know it's shady. Now, Epstein had a team of helpers primarily in Palm Springs, but all around the world. Everywhere. He had residences, which included New York City and New Mexico. These helpers would find young women that they could bring back to one of Jeffrey's various mansions. And then, while here's a helpful summary of the scheme by the Washington Post quote, Epstein, with the help from several female assistants, would recruit underage females to travel to his home in Palm Beach to engage in lewd conduct in exchange for money. Some went there as many as 100 times or more. Some of the women's conduct was limited to performing a topless or nude. Massage? Well, Mr Epstein *********** himself. For other women, the conduct escalated to full sexual intercourse. Now, that's a decent, high level overview, but I want to correct one thing, which is that most of these people were not women. They were girls. The majority of them were under 18. At least that's what it seems. We don't have, you know, exact evidence, but most of the people that the police and the FBI later talked to were like between 12 and 16 when he started. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I do think it's important that we. Bring in some of the human stories of the individual young girls who got caught up in this mess. The story of Virginia Roberts is a good case study. Like many of the literal children that Jeffrey Epstein targeted, she had a hard childhood. At age 11, she'd been molested by a family friend. By age 12, she was, by her own recollection, smoking weed and skipping school. By age 14, she was living on the street. Her family was **** and she had very little support. She wound up in the clutches of a 65 year old sex trafficker named Ron Eppinger. She was abused and pimped out for months until Eppinger was indicted in 2000. Virginia traveled back to West Palm Beach and reconnected with her father, who worked as a maintenance man at Donald Trump's Mar-a-lago resort. He got her a job as a locker room attendant at the spa. That very summer, 16 year old Virginia Roberts met Gilzeane Maxwell, a British socialite and heiress to one of Britain's great fortunes. Gilzeane happened to be a longtime friend of Jeffrey Epstein. Gilzeane offered Roberts the opportunity of a lifetime. Get paid to learn to become a massage therapist at the home of a wealthy billionaire, Jeffrey Epstein. That Vanity Fair article about. About Epstein written the same year all of this happened, but way before his sexual crimes were public knowledge, described the relationship between Epstein and Gilzeane Maxwell this way. Quote Epstein is known about town as a man who loves women. Lots of them, mostly young model types, have been heard saying they are full of gratitude to Epstein for flying them around, and he is a familiar face to many of the Victoria's Secret Girls. One young woman recalls being summoned by Gilzeane Maxwell to a concert at Epstein's townhouse, where the women seemed to outnumber the men by far. These were not women you'd see at Upper East Side dinners, the woman recalls. Many seemed foreign and dressed a little bizarrely. The same guest also attended a cocktail party thrown by Maxwell that Prince Andrew attended, which was filled, she says, with young Russian models. Some of the guests were horrified, the woman says. So that's what people knew before the sex crimes were common knowledge. Jeff Epstein likes really young girls. There's always a lot of young women at his parties. Now, and it's a certain kind of money or status or whatever it is that, like, people can be that public about. Yeah, he's known for liking women. A lot of them young. Yeah, a lot of them really young. Weird. Like the fact that he is fine with that, a, with that reputation existing. Yeah. And B, the people who are saying it, fine with. Saying it. Just like broadcasting this, this, this common secret. Like, I don't even understand people. Is that it? I don't understand. Rich people don't like. I would not like to have a reputation. Like, even, like, if they're like the young part out of it. Yeah, you were like, oh, Dan, I know. Here's what he is known for. Loving women. Like, you know, I'd rather not be known for that. I much like Dan. Ohh yeah. Glasses runs a lot. Glasses and runs a lot you don't want to be known for. Like every time I go over to his house, there's a bunch of different strange women in weird outfits hanging around, right? That's enough. Enough of a reputation that it's the first thing people think of about you is is. Is bad to me, but everyone there is fine with it. I don't know. And that's part of why this is like a bit of a, a leap of a conclusion on my apartment. This is part of why I suspect all of this stuff, even though every everything we have details on of his sex crimes dates back to the early 2000s. I suspect it goes back to the 90s and probably the 80s because that's everyone who talked to him and those periods of time or talked about him was like, yeah, he really likes his young ladies hanging around, which is like, OK, so this has been going on for a long time. Yeah. And we're. This is. The timeline on this is a little wonky, so we're switching around a little bit, but we're we're building to something weird here. So, OK, cool. Now, Virginia Roberts again, 16 at that time, yeah. Started off giving Epstein massages, and those massages inevitably progressed to ******** and other sexual stuff that we're not going to cover in detail. He raped her because the age of consent in Florida is 18. So any sex that Jeffrey Epstein had with Virginia Roberts was, by definition, rape. I just want to be very clear about that. Epstein's pattern was remarkably. Consistent among the dozens and dozens of girls he abused, according to the Miami Herald quote, most of the girls said they arrived by car or taxi and entered the side door, where they were led into a kitchen by a female staff met assistant named Sarah Kellen. The report said a chef might prepare them a meal or offer them cereal. The girls, most from local schools, would then ascend a staircase off of the kitchen and up to a master bedroom and bath. They were met by Epstein, clad in a towel. He would select a lotion from an array lined up on a table, then lie face down on a massage table and struck the girl to strip partially or fully and direct them to massage his feet and back. Side then he would turn over and have them massage his chest, often instructing them to pinch his ******* while he *********** according to the police report. Again, the youngest girls brought in on this were like 12. So, Jesus, yeah, Christ, yeah. Photos of the young girls were allegedly taken and displayed around Epstein's home. At least one victim accused him of penetrating her with his penis after she explicitly said no. He apologized afterwards and gave her $1000. So. $200.00, If you just *********** him, if he like not just statutorily raped you, but other type raped you, raped you, he'd give you $1000. That's that. That's Epstein's price sheet now. Like many of his victims, after her first encounter with Epstein, Virginia was asked to help and essentially feeding more young girls into Epstein's well oiled rate machine. Virginia believes she eventually became one of his top recruiters. Here's what she said later in a court affidavit, quote Epstein and Maxwell also got girls for Epstein's. Wins and acquaintances. Epstein specifically told me that the reason for him doing this was so that they would owe him. They would be in his pocket and he would have something on them. I understood him to mean that when someone was in his pocket, they owed him favors, he, Epstein, would tell the girls, hey, I will give you a modeling contract if you go have sex with this man. So you see what we're building to here a little bit. Yeah, I'm starting to put the pieces together. Yeah, I know a lot of my role on as a guest on your show is to is to ask questions and jump in with with jokes, not really loving the setups. Not like in the raw materials. I'm getting here to spin into comedy gold, bro. Yeah, it's it's it's more like, it's more like I've given you comedy copper and I I'm yeah, we can keep the rust off of it. When Virginia Roberts turned 19, she was officially too old for Jeffrey Epstein. She asked him to fly her to Thailand to so that she could take massage training classes and, you know, move on with her life. Now, a man who was actually as smart as Epstein likes to think he is would probably have just given her some of his unlimited money to set this woman with incriminating information about him up in a comfortable new life. But he only agreed to pay for her trip to Thailand if she'd agreed to pick up a teenage Thai girl that he'd basically arranged to buy and import into the United States. Yeah, Roberts did not do this. Uh, she apparently met a guy while she was in Thailand. They fell in love and ran away to Australia together. She kept the paperwork that Epstein had given her, though, including instructions for how to bring this literal child into the United States so he could pass her around to his rich friends, which is, again, some of the mountain of evidence that was collected by the prosecutors when this finally got investigated. Now it's impossible again for us to know how much of this was going on in the late 80s, in the 1990s, during Epstein's rise to power and prominence, but if you assume it goes back a long way. Well, a lot of awful things Vanity Fair found that were just sort of baffling at the time make an awful lot of sense now. Jeffrey Epstein was pimping out children to the rich and powerful. If he didn't directly profit from that by charging them, it got him favors and access that were crucial to the building of his vast fortune. Many of the lines from that Vanity Fair article and other articles written about Epstein in the early 2000s sound downright sinister, with the knowledge that when they were written, he was actively importing teenagers from foreign countries and recruiting disadvantaged teenagers here in America. ****** them himself and then lending them out to his wealthy, powerful friends. Quote from the Vanity Fair article some of the businessmen who dined with him at his home. They include newspaper publisher Mort Zuckerman, banker Lewis Ranieri, Revlon chairman Ronald Perlman, real estate tycoon Leon Black, former Microsoft executive Nathan Myhrvold, Tom Pritzker of Hyatt Hotels, and real estate personality Donald Trump sometimes seem not all that clear. The president. The president. Weird sex stuff that's probably illegal. That guy who just ****** a flag last night. And I I hate to say this, but I don't think that flag was 18, Dan. Ah, damn it. Yeah, I wish he'd done it to his statue, because then we could. Then we could have had a good statutory rape joke. Yeah, but just another tragedy of this tragic tale. It's I'm, I'm sorry I took the the wind out of your sails if you were ramping up to something. Can I ask a question now? No, no, it's it's it's basically people back then. I know it's it's, I'm trying not to get too conspiracy theory here because we just don't know that much that's solid before the early 2000s. But we do know that for decades before it was public knowledge that he was a child rape ****** everyone in the finance industry was baffled by how Jeffrey Epstein got his money. There's, yeah, here's a quote from New York Magazine quote, my belief is that Jeff maintains some sort of money management firm that you won't get a straight answer from him, says, well, one well known investor. He once told me he had 300 people working for him and I've also heard that he manages Rockefeller money, but one never knows. It's like looking at the Wizard of Oz, there may be less there than meets the eye or a giant child rape machine. Yeah, I think is what was actually there. I think I I can take comfort in the fact that no one will ever about me say we didn't know where he got his money from. Yeah, or what he spent it on. Because it was like in 2009, I could tell he got a bonus at work because he bought an iPad and that's it. And then he paid his bills and got groceries. Everyone can see where all of my money went in the tape covered Toyota Prius. I drive to Hollywood in to record this show. Quickly, I don't know if there if there's been. A study on this, or if you have any kind of fringe theory, the relationship between. Being rich and powerful and having. Disgusting sexual tastes. Is that? Can you even, like, guess any kind of connection for that? Like, I don't want to say, oh, billionaires do this because like, it seems hard for me to buy that. Maybe. Bill Gates is getting on a plane and trying to to have sex with a 14 year old child, but if there's enough of them that Epstein knows that there is a business in specifically connecting rich people with children. I don't know. Why does that market exist? You know, what is the relationship there I think for speculate wildly. Yeah. I mean I think for a guy like Epstein at simple enough, I think he's he's a predator and I think like whether or not he got rich he would have preyed on people. But I think maybe for maybe one reason why so many really rich people wind up doing this is because like I think I I think you could see it starting almost innocuously where just or not innocuously but without any sort of predatory behavior on their behalf just because money. And power are so, like, valuable in our society. If someone has the ability to get you roles in Hollywood or someone has the ability to get you a job that can set you up for life, then maybe you'll sleep with that person and like, not even sort of question it. So they get used to that sort of thing and it kind of spirals out from there like, oh, I just get whatever I want because I have all this money. And that goes from like what I want is having sex with these 20 year old models to like. They get younger and younger and younger and you just stop, like. Taking account of the ages and stuff you assume you're above. Like, I don't know. I could see it. It's just so yeah, confusing to me as someone who grew up lower middle class and has since. Gotten more money and the and like. I still don't even fly first class. That even feels like an extravagance to me, like the things that I would consider like. Oh yeah, I have this amount of money, so I deserve like a nice meal at a nice restaurant every once in a while. I can't imagine. By some strange twist of fate, we decide comedy is the most important thing in the world, and then I become a billionaire 10 years from now. Is a switch going to flip in my brain that like now that I have a billion dollars? You know, I've always wanted to try like I like, how is it that so many billionaires want to have want to get on a plane and have sex with children with their ******* psychopath predator friend Jeffrey? Well, I'll say this and I I didn't prepare the the information for this podcast, but it's something I've been researching for another project. There is some scientific evidence on how both wealth and power affect the brain and it's been described as similar to a head injury. So one of the things that happens when you have an elevated position of wealth and power. Uh is that you become separated from the consequences of your actions, which leads to an increase in impulsive behavior. And again, like that increase in impulsive behavior has been compared by the scientists doing the neurological research to some of the things that happen when you have a head injury. So that's could probably part of it is that like you, just like like you and I have gotten lucky enough that we've gotten like book deals and stuff and jobs that paid us better than we expected to be paid, but we still didn't like fly first class because. You look at that and it's like, well, that's $1200. I could buy a new laptop and I want that more than I want to be more comfortable for seven hours or whatever. Someone who has billions of dollars, then money's not a thing. And so, like that it it just sort of like, uh, I think it just warps your perspective on everything over time, as does power. And so, like, you don't like, I'm going to guess a lot of these people. Like, this is one of the things we're like one of the many things we're like the Q Anon people and the pedogate people get it wrong as they assume all these people want to **** literal children. I don't think that's it. And from what I've heard, age never came up with the people that like the kit, the young women that like and the girls that Jeffrey was basically handing out to his friends. They weren't even checking on the age. They weren't saying I want an underage girl. He was just finding girls he found attractive and handing them off to his rich friends. And nobody questioned what age they were because they were usually on his plane or on his island in international waters. So why would they ask? Like, I think that's what it is more than anything. Is this, like knowledge that you'll never be accountable for your actions, whatever they are. And also because you're so rich and powerful, like nobody asks you, they just bring you things, right? Like, that's kind of how it is. It's like at the Oscars you get a box of ******* iPads or whatever that you don't even give a **** about because it's like, well, it's $30,000 with the free stuff because that's what everyone gets at the Oscars. But like. We're all rich. Nobody cares. Like, yeah, yeah, it's it's it's a different world. And it's a world where it's easy to accidentally or maybe not accidentally, maybe a lot of these people were like, hey, Jeffrey, do you have any 12 year olds? I don't know. I'm going to guess. Was probably a mix of the two, depending on who you're talking about. So hopefully Chris Tucker. And they weren't all children. So even if Chris Tucker had sex on Epstein's creepy plane, maybe it was with an adult. Trying to give Chris Tucker the benefit of the doubt here. I am, too, just because I don't. Yeah, I I've heard nothing bad about him. Yeah, exactly. Now. And that was a charity research, so maybe that one was one where he didn't do anything shady. But we will talk about that more. It could have been a case where, like, he got he got there and did charity. Yeah. And was like, Bill Clinton. Kevin Spacey. Why are you guys so disappointed we were here for charity. Yeah. What did you think was gonna really bummed? The champagne was great. Oh, Speaking of champagne, Daniel O'Brien. It's time for an ad break. And maybe that ad will be for champagne and I don't know, but it's yeah, but it's ******* Mario Lopez talking to you about weird stuff. Mario Lopez with his dead eyes. Can we say that, Sophie? She's saying we can't talk about Mario Lopez's dead eyes. Mario Lopez's lively, lust filled heart. Eds. Being a real estate agent isn't about listing houses, it's about connecting to people. I need to find new buyers every day, so I promote my listings using radio commercials from Now every time I have an open house, it's a full house. A custom radio ad from iheart AD builder is the fast, affordable way to drive customers to your business. Put the power of radio to work for you. Get started now at iheart More than a movie, American Me is a new podcast that digs into the history and mystery of American Me, a film directed by and starring Edward James Olmos that had a huge impact on Latino cinema and culture. I'm your host, Alex Fumero, and I'll be diving into the behind the scenes controversy, including an alleged backlash from the Mexican mafia. Several people who worked on the movie have been murdered and even today people are still scared to talk about the film. Everything else, I mean. You know, I I don't want to speak about it. And we had to sign a paper saying that if we were taken hostage that they would not bargain for us. Eddie, I know he said that he had permission to do the bill, so I don't know where it got lost in translation. Learn about what really went down from the people that were there. Listen to more than a movie American me that's part of the Michael Duda podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Your miraval mate courage already runs in your blood. He needs to be stopped. We've been silent and complacent for far too long. Sisters of the Underground is a new scripted series about fearless women exploring the life and legacy of the Mirabal sisters, Dominican women who were brave enough to challenge decades of oppression. Together, they led their country toward a revolution against Rafael Trujillo, the brutal dictator who ruled the Dominican Republic for 30 years. Please, please help us has blood on his hands from executive producers Dania Ramirez and Eva Longoria. That's me comes the powerful retelling of this all too relevant narrative. Listen to sisters of the underground as part of Michael Toura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We're back and we're talking about how Doritos hasn't wised up yet. Yeah, I can't understand it. I mean, I just just do what? Doritos. What the ****? I know you got. They're rich in wealth. Warps your perceptions. How out of touch with the real world. The mighty are, you know. Mighty like Doritos. But back before he got Rich, John Dorito probably would have recognized. What an opportunity this podcast. Oh my God, back when we used to call him Johnny D Johnny, Johnny, Johnny D from up the street? Holy ****. When he just down for whatever, he just show up at punk shows with a homemade bag of Doritos and hand them out? Yeah, I remember seeing him at Chateau Marmont and I was like Johnny thing from up the street and he was like, it's John now. I was like, holy **** yeah, that's when the times changed. Now he won't even give this humble podcast a couple small mid-size sedans worth of of advertising dollars. Heartbreaking fools. Fools. OK, so I do want to read one other quote from one of one of Jeffrey Epstein's famous friends from that New York magazine article. Back before anyone knew he was a child molester, or at least back before the public knew it was a child molester. Quote. If you talk to Donald Trump, a different Epstein emerges. I've known Jeff for 15 years. Terrific guy, Trump booms from a speakerphone. He's a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do. And many of them are on the younger side, no doubt about it. Jeffrey enjoys his social life, the president. The President of of a whole last country, too? Yeah, of a whole last country. Talking at a time when we know for a fact Jeff Epstein was, uh, essentially pimping out teenagers. Yeah, and and forgive me again, when when was that interview conducted? 1002, 2002, OK, So what even that is is? Is strange to me that. That anyone listening to him, and he's like, oh, rumor has it he likes women as much as I do. And telling them young that no one jumps in to be like, what do you what do you mean, what do you mean? Some of them young? Yeah, no doubt about it. Instead of me just passively writing down what you're saying and be like, he boomed from a speakerphone. Just like a single follow-up question of like, how young. Yeah. Why, given our societies focus for like men on being, like, smooth and good with them. And I could see something like, Oh yeah, Jeffrey, he loves the ladies. But then. And like, saying not just he loves the ladies, but. And they're really young. Yeah. Just just Googling like 2002 movies to see what we were talking about or thinking about at the time to see if there was any, like teachable moments. Like, oh, it's 2002 blank movie came out and we all learned that it's bad. To for old men to creep on young women. That was the message of the first Spiderman movie, right? Yeah. Yeah, more or less nothing. I don't know. Donald Trump is not the only president of the United States who spent a lot of time with Jeffrey Epstein. Bill Clinton spent at least as much time and logged even more flights with Epstein on his private plane, which some have dubbed the Lolita Express. Epstein's. Hold on Googling to find out if there's another Lolita who's famous, then maybe it was just the one. Just the one famous, lowly one famous. Yeah, it's not based on anything, just a fun nickname. Now, Epstein's pilots log books are a public domain now, thanks to some of the many, many civil lawsuits. About his crimes, Gawker put together a pretty good write up over how Slick Willy fits into all of this. They note that Clinton rode on Epstein's plane at least 11 times between 2002 and 2003. OK, what are the on paper reasons for writing on Epstein's plane? Is it always going somewhere for charity or is it or it's sure not Dan like it sure not like what is he telling people I'm getting on this plane again? What is his out loud reason? He's he's not giving an out loud reason. So here's what we have quote in January 2002, for instance, Clinton and his aide Doug Band and Clinton's Secret Service detail are listed on a flight from Japan to Hong Kong with Epstein, Maxwell, Kellen, and two women described only as Janice and Jessica. One month later, records show Clinton hopped a ride from Miami to Westchester on a flight that included Epstein, Maxwell, Kellen and a woman described only as one female. OK, yeah, now I should like no one asked. Like, hey, bill. How was Japan? No. What did you get into there? Any scraps? I found he just he just flies around on this plane and doesn't explain himself. Flies around on this plane with Jeffrey Epstein, the two people who are named in multiple court documents as procuring women for Jeff Epstein, and the people that he pimped those women out to or girls out to. Sorry. And an unnamed women. OK. Yeah. Yeah, seems pretty bad. Seems seems pretty bad. Seems like a real bummer, Evans. Bill Clinton might have done something really bad now that 2002 New York magazine article we've been quoting from was written. Because, again, you know, Epstein had just made the news for Flying Bill Clinton, Kevin Spacey, Chris Tucker Gale, and GAIL Smith, who wound up on Obama's National Security Council to Africa now on that 2002 flight, Epstein's guests were all accompanied by Chante Davis. She's one of the 27 women listed in Epstein's black book, which also got out through a court case. Under the heading massage, California, he had 160 names listed as massage artists in six different locations. Many of those women were underage, but. For Chris Tucker's sake, Shante was not she was 23 at the time of the flight. So it is possible that even if some prostitution went down on that flight, it was not necessarily anything terrible on that specific flight. When contacted, Chante did not have much to say. So it's possible that Chris Tucker, GAIL and Kevin Spacey were just using this plane because Epstein offered it very publicly to help out a charity. It's possible that if they did have any sex, it was with, you know, an adult prostitute. But when it comes to the case of Bill Clinton, it's a lot harder to exonerate. Because 11 times is a lot of times to fly on Jeffrey Epstein's plane with unnamed women. Yes. Yeah, it's a it's. I mean, I don't, I don't even really think we need to mitigate Bill Clinton. He sucks. Did you do Bill Clinton episode yet? No, no. But he sucks. He should do it. Bill Clinton. There's a long list now. The one upside to the whole horrible Jeffrey Epstein saga is that he might actually be something we can unite the country behind. Because no matter who you are and no matter how you identify politically, someone you admire Rode on Jeffrey Epstein's plane and may have raped a trafficked child on it. Other Epstein frequent Flyers include Alan Dershowitz, the lawyer who regularly defends Trump on TV, defended Epstein in court, and is accused by name of having sex with an underage child prostitute. Naomi can. I mean, if you were. Trying to, like, prove that one of my heroes wrote on this plane and you started with Alan Dershowitz. He was just an Angel named Dan. Give me a second. OK. Naomi Campbell, the former supermodel and businesswoman. Former Treasury Secretary and Harvard President Larry Summers. Steven Pinker, the Canadian popular psychologist and author of such Best Selling Books as Enlightenment now and how the Mind Works and Stephen Hawking. What? Yeah, Stephen Hawking. See, it turns out that Jeffrey Epstein had what the Telegraph called an island of sin. It's an island he owns in the Virgin Islands. Little St. James, unofficially known to his friends as Little St Jeff Hawking, actually traveled there in 2000. Words name. Yeah, it's a terrible name. And the women who have accused him of sexual trafficking say that a lot of the sexual trafficking happened on that island and that they were passed around on that island, and Hawking traveled there in 2006, a year after the first allegations against Epstein were made public. Epstein apparently paid to modify a ship. The 61 year old physicist could take part in a cruise. Hawking is pictured on the island with several young but presumably adult women enjoying a BBQ. So again, I I it's really hard to say. Maybe nothing bad went down with Hawking. It was really common for Epstein to hang out with physicists. He put 10s of millions of dollars into research projects around the world. He also hung out and flew with luminaries in the field like Murray Gellman. He was close to Martin Novak, a mathematical biologist and professor at Harvard University. Epstein put $20 million into Harvard University, much of it to support Novak's work. Vanity Fair talked to both of these guys back in 2003. Quote. When these men describe Epstein, they talk about the energy and curiosity as well as a love for theoretical physics that they don't nor ordinarily find in layman. Gilman rather sweetly mentions that there are always pretty ladies around when he goes to dinner at Shea Epstein. So. I feel like if Hawking didn't, a lot of famous physicists probably had sex with underage people. And Epstein. Yeah. And even if Hawking didn't and had no interest in it, yeah. If a couple of punks like you and me know these stories about Epstein, Stephen Hawking probably did. It was probably in the air at that point, and it's very easy to say or ******* into type. No, I don't want to go on on your plane like you can. You you don't have to go on the Lolita express to little St Jeff. Yeah, like, it's very easy to not do that. That sounds so I did it. You say it that way. I'm going to do it again tomorrow. You're not going to get on the Lolita Express to little St Jeff tomorrow. Every single day I make that choice. That's good to know. That's good to know. Now, one of the things that's like most common in all of his pre sex offender interviews is that Epstein would brag about his contributions to science, or at least the contributions of his money to science. Most of the reporting during the pre sexual crime allegations. Tended to portray him as an eccentric, mysterious genius. He's another excerpt from that New York magazine article, quote, but it is his COBE of scientists that inspires Epstein's true rapture. Epstein spends 20 million a year on them, encouraging them to engage in whatever kind of cutting edge research might attract their fancy there, of course. Quite lavish in their praise and return, Gerald Edelman won the Nobel Prize for Physiology and Medicine in 1972 and now presides over the Neurosciences Institute at Loyola. Jeff is so extraordinary in his ability to pick up on quantitative relations, says Adelman. He came to see us recently. He is concerned with this basic question. Is it true that the brain is not a computer? He is very quick. I found that really funny for some reason. Now, as smart as he may be, and that may be pretty smart, Jeffrey Epstein is not as smart as he thinks he is. It seems like after who knows how many years of going after impoverished girls, foreigners, and previously trafficked kids, Epstein got lazy. He started targeting more and more girls from local high schools in Palm Beach, FL in 2416. Year old Michelle Licata still had braces. She was brought in to Jeffrey Epstein's mansion to give him a massage in exchange for a couple of $100. He immediately asked her to strip, of course. According to the Miami Herald quote, Lakota had never been naked in front of anyone else before. But she did what he said. Epstein put out a timer, set it for 30 minutes, and started fondling her while he *********** she later recalled. I kept looking at the timer because I didn't want to have this mental image of what he was doing. He kept trying to put his fingers inside me and told me to pinch his *******. He was mostly saying, just do that harder, harder, and do this. Eventually Epstein ejaculated, got up and went to the shower. Laccata was sent away, but Epstein's people continued to trawl her high school. Royal Palm Beach high. Before long, students were talking about, quote, a creepy old guy named Jeffrey who was paying between 200 and $300.00 apiece for massages that inevitably turned sexual. Not long after her afternoon with Epstein, the Palm Beach police wound up at the cottage front door. They'd started an investigation into Epstein that year, 2005, when a 14 year old girl, prompted by her parents, allege that Epstein had molested her in his mansion. This is what led to the trial that ended with Epstein branded a sex offender and sentenced to more than a year of prison. The story of that? File of Epstein sentence and of everything that came next is arguably even more horrifying than what we've discussed today. But you, the listener, will have to wait until Thursday to hear that in Part 2 of the Epstein saga, Jeffrey Epstein pimped to the powerful. But first, it's the end of the first episode, so you got any plegables you're gonna plug? Oh yeah, the only thing that I want to plug relevant to my interests and also this episode of this organization called Children of the Night that I used to volunteer with back in Los Angeles. It's a privately funded nonprofit organization dedicated to rescuing children and young people from prostitution worldwide. You can find If you have some money to kick their way, they will always take it. Or if you yourself are in danger, they have a 24 hour hotline and you could reach out to them and they will find you and they will save you from. Your situation. If you have to find yourself in this particular situation, and if you're not in this situation and you don't have any extra money to spend, but you do happen to live in the Los Angeles area, you could volunteer with children of the night through a company called LA Works and just show up there once a week to meet these amazing, wonderful, brilliant survivors. And just. Play games, hear their stories, do arts and crafts, whatever you want. It's a great organization. You should do it. You should support them. You should, we all should children of the night. That's a great, that's a great plug Dan. You know, I I pride myself on my plugs manship, but that was that was the finest plug of the episode by far. So thank you. Well, I feel weird saying you should look up our T-shirts online. But if you go to teepublic and look up behind the ********. You can also buy a shirt, but you should, you should. You should donate your shirt money there. That's just. Sorry, Sophie. Alright, I've been Robert Evans. This has been behind the basket. You can find us on social media at at ******** pod. Twitter and Instagram. You can find all the sources for this episode. I'm That's all the plugs I got for the end of this episode. Check back in Thursday where we will have even more horrifying things to tell you. I love about 40%. My name is Alex Fumero and I host the new podcast more than a movie, American Me, a film directed by and starring Edward James Olmos. I'll be diving into the behind the scenes controversy, including an alleged backlash from the Mexican mafia. Several people who worked on the movie have been murdered. I I don't want to speak about it. Why would people be murdered for being in a movie? Listen to more than a movie American me on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. My name is Lauren Ober, and in addition to being a charming podcast host, I am also a newly diagnosed autistic person. My new show, the loudest girl in the world, is all about my weird, winding path to diagnosis. My decision at age 42 to finally get evaluated for autism. Listen to the loudest girl in the world on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Peace to the planet I go by the name of Charlemagne the God, and this summer I'm bringing my show back to Comedy Central with a new title and a new podcast. It's called hell of a week, but don't worry, every Friday I'll be keeping that same calling out the ******** energy, and I'll have some of the biggest names in comedy, politics and entertainment with me. So if the news is terrorizing your timeline and causing your anxiety to rise high in gas prices, don't worry. We got you. Listen to hell of a week with charlamagne the God on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast.