Behind the Bastards

There’s a reason the History Channel has produced hundreds of documentaries about Hitler but only a few about Dwight D. Eisenhower. Bad guys (and gals) are eternally fascinating. Behind the Bastards dives in past the Cliffs Notes of the worst humans in history and exposes the bizarre realities of their lives. Listeners will learn about the young adult novels that helped Hitler form his monstrous ideology, the founder of Blackwater’s insane quest to build his own Air Force, the bizarre lives of the sons and daughters of dictators and Saddam Hussein’s side career as a trashy romance novelist.

Part Four: The Clarence Thomas Story

Part Four: The Clarence Thomas Story

Thu, 11 Aug 2022 10:00

Robert is joined by Miles Gray for the final part of our series on Clarence Thomas

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Hey, Robert here. It's been like two months since I had LASIK and I'm still seeing 2020. All I had to do was go in for a consultation, then go in for a maybe 10 minute procedure and then my eyes have been great ever since. You know, I healed up wonderfully. It was very simple, couldn't have been a better experience. So if you want to explore LASIK plus I can't recommend it enough. They have over 20 years experience in the industry and they performed more than two million treatments right now if you want to try getting LASIK plus you can get $1000 off of your surgery when you're treated in September, that's $500. Of per eye, just to schedule your free consultation. Hello, I'm Erica Kelly from the podcast Southern Fried true crime. And if you want to go from podcast fan to podcast host, do what I did and check out spreaker from iheart. I was working in accounting and hating it. Then after just 18 months of podcasting with Spreaker, I was able to quit my day job. Follow your podcasting dreams. Let's breaker handle the hosting, creation, distribution, and monetization of your podcast. Go to That's Hey there, it's Ebony Monet, your co-host for the San Diego Zoo's Amazing Wildlife podcast. In this special episode, we're speaking with Doctor Jane Goodall about the fascinating journey that led to her social discoveries on chimpanzees SO4-O months, the chimps ran away from me. I mean, they take one look at this peculiar white ape and disappear into the vegetation. Bing wildlife on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to behind the ******** the podcast, where once again, miles and I are talking about the well known fact that I'm a much better basketball player than LeBron James. Sophie. Yeah, how we doing? You're not. But I like idealism. LeBron has never done the the five pointer shots that I make all the time. That's definitely not. That's when you do, you stay inside. Years, no wetty, thank you. That's exactly the slang that I know what means. It's so funny how stupid you sound. It's so funny. You know what else is funny, Sophie? I was going to say something really mean, and I'm not. I stopped myself. What? Well, you know, what I did is I spent time because I'm not a mean person like you reading from the Bible. You know, the good book, which we're all supposed to do every day. And I found a relevant quote from the Bible. I'm just gonna read this bit of Mark 3716 because I think we all read from Playboy Magazine, August of 1982. That's somebody's Bible. No, I I I think we could use a little bit more religion on this podcast. And and so I'm doing this, this, this verse from the Bible. Save us, Robert. Cherish ye all the catalytic converters that that frolic and frock in the streets around you, and never let them stay in the car with which they were initially assembled, and instead take for ye all the precious metals they contain and use them to buy St drugs. Underbridges. That's. I mean, let's just bring it down one more time. Deuteronomy 818. Oh yeah. But remember, the Lord your God for it is he who gives you the ability to produce wealth through the theft of catalytic converters. Wow. Wow. Which he swore to your ancestors as it is today. I mean, This is why the Bible is. This is why I want to get this **** tatted sometimes. It's so powerful. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I can't imagine anyone disagreeing with that. This is not funny. Sophie and I would this is my religion. Sophie, don't don't play with my God. I think we might have to get HR involved because if I remember the classes that I did not take, that HR makes us sick. We are not allowed to demean a coworkers religion guarantee. You're still getting emails about that. I have not checked those emails in months, Sophie. So miles. We're back talking about Clarence Thomas. What's a good nickname for Clarence Thomas? Uh. Hmm, I feel like it's some kind of like. A good nickname is some kind of Marvel super villain that involves like some kind of **** pun. Yeah, definitely. There has to be like something pornographic there, which he would appreciate personally as someone who uncontrollably talks about *********** to every single person that he has to know for more than 35 seconds. I'm trying to think, is there any. I mean, there's Pyro and that could just be ***** but that's not, like very clever. Uhm. We'll think about that. I mean, yeah, I'll challenge the listeners for that. Yeah, something good. Something good. I was gonna go with Lex Luthor, but mainly because I think Clarence Tom. Well, is he bald? Am I just imagining that? Clarence Thomas, he called. He's got a little hair. Yeah, he's out here. Let me, let me take a look. Let me take a look. I think it's haloing. Yeah, it is haloing. But no, you're right. He has that. Like, it's like a crown of white hairs, too. So, like, I was just completely wrong. Vaporized spider webs. You know? But Oh yeah, no, that's because in the most recent pictures, he's like barely has any left. I guess he's kind of like, he's like smeagle, you know? And that, like, ***** has ruined him. Like, I see like the ring of power, the ring of ***** that he's pursuing. And then I just think of how the walls are plastered with *****. It's like smeagol when he has the rings. Like, I I look forward to the day when Elijah Wood attempts to to throw his his old Playboys into a volcano, but but can't bear to do it. And then Clarence Thomas. Tackles them out of his hands and falls into the mouth of, I don't know, save them some of the fires of Mount Doom. Yeah. Yes. Anyway, big on Tolkien today. So yeah, the we're talking a bit about Clarence Thomas, who is, as we start this story about to be the Republican nominee, the latest of like, way too many ******* supreme they make. They nominate so many ******* Supreme Court justices in the Reagan, Bush years. It is heartbreaking. And yeah, the kind of black conservatism that Thomas had come to support by the late 1980s was very formed by both his experiences at Yale with his racist, white Liberal colleagues and his experiences with racists in the Reagan administration. It was a better the devil, you know, kind of bargain mixed with an almost religious belief in the saving power of black men and the focus on a kind of family values that hinged around an authoritarian, all powerful father exerting iron control over his family. That's what, like, his kind of attitude comes around. This is like you can't you can't understand or stop racism. It's useless to try. You'll just wind up making the problem worse. All you can do is empower black men to have complete control over their families in order to like, protect, and direct them. The state will do nothing but get in the way of black self-reliance. And in Thomas's evolving view, things like affirmative action only stripped black men of self-respect, while integration broke up strong black communities. The fact that Thomas himself had repeatedly benefited from affirmative action programs does not seem to have had an impact. On his beliefs here, although he was constantly angry about that. So I don't know. That's a complicated thing to wrap your head around, I guess. Yeah, yeah, levels of. I mean, that's again we. There's so much that's like confounding about him, but so much that makes sense. That makes sense, right? Yeah. Like, yeah, that that is like a a whole thing to, to, to get your head around. And it is like. I think rightfully so it there's nothing unreasonable or hard to understand about being, like, angry about the existence of affirmative action because of like, what it implies, right, what it implies about like the past of the country that you're in, right. I don't think it's reasonable to be against those programs, but I think it's reasonable to be like, it's ****** ** that like this is necessary, and that it's going to lead to people treating black people who benefit from these programs differently, as if like, they don't deserve to be there. That is ****** ** in a problem. It doesn't mean that, like, the solution is do nothing. Exactly. It's right, which is like he says, or you're just going to make the problems of racism worse. Yeah. Well, it's not like you want to put out a fire, right? And he's just saying don't fan the flames and it's like, no, extinguish the fire. Yeah. It's like, yeah, it's ****** **. We got to have somebody firefighters out of this fire. But yeah, it is. It's bad that the fire got that bad. But that doesn't mean that solution is fewer firefighters. Yeah. All right. Or you can fan the flames. Uh, so according to Corey Robin quote, among the few who have noticed this, the time of his nomination was the right wing intellectual Murray Rothbard. Before he died in 1995, Rothbard came to a late life vision of a coalition of libertarians and white nationalists forging alliances with Pat Buchanan and Ron Paul. Rothbard anticipated the merger of America's two great manias. Racism and capital are in capitalism that are the hallmark of the Trump regime, black separatism or black nationalism, Rothbard said of Thomas's philosophy. Has long struck me as more far more compatible with human nature, as well as far more libertarian than the compulsory integration beloved of left liberalism. A modern, updated version of the Black Nation idea, Rothbard added, would set the American blacks free at last, free from what they see as white racism and what many whites see as parasitism over the white populace through crime or welfare payments into independent at long last, liberated from what they see as the institutionalized legacy of slavery, the Blacks would finally be free to find their own level. So like. Rothbard sucks. Rothbard, by the way, is the reason why libertarian is a right wing word. Now that's like a conscious thing that he did is steal it from the left and is it just a man, as that makes clear, that's a massive racist talking right, like everything about them. Very racist, yeah. But also just give them their own thing. Give, let them do their own thing. Like over there man. Also though, you have to like, again, this is the thing you you always have to say about Robert, a very intelligent man who was good at getting what he wanted because like, this is a winning strategy. Not with most people, but like with enough that it's come to dominate a huge chunk of Republican politics. And been a significant part in a couple of presidential elections. So yeah. And it and it also grabbed make a great new feeling or vibe to the idea of like, not wanting to help but marginalized people, which is, you know, people should just be kind of like left to do their own thing. It's sort of what I'm saying, like, I'm not trying to say they deserve that, but what I'm saying is my belief is that, like, people should just be free to, like, sort that out, like, if it's not working. For them then like they should work that out. And is that sort of like this other, you know, form of neglectful racism that people love? Yep, it's pretty good. It it's it's yeah. In June of 1991, Thurgood Marshall announced his retirement from the Supreme Court. Tragically, if he'd held on a little bit longer, his successor might have been someone who was a little bit more to the left, and they would have been appointed by President Clinton. But at the time, June 1991, you got to remember Bush looked like he was going to win, right? And like it was, you know, things were going pretty good. He had a, he had a. He he was. In the process, I guess, of having a fun little war, which we all had a really good time with, made everybody feel good about themselves. Yeah. I mean, who didn't have those custom Ninja Turtles that were straight up desert storm propaganda man. He should have gotten a second term just because of the Ninja Turtles. Just not the strength of the toys. Yeah, yeah. Off the strength of the toys. Absolutely. And the GI Joe episodes we got out of that period of time. Oh my God, what a what a great time that was for everyone. This scuds for you, Saddam. We should have done another couple of wars like that. Instead of the problem wars, right? Yeah, I know. Just **** a country up a little bit and then, like, bounce just a little bit, though, you know? Just, just, just ******* around just as good. Just for the weekend. Yeah. What if we just bombed? I don't know, what's the capital of Poland? Poland town. What if we just bombed Poland town a little bit, you know? And then we bounced. Then we're gone, right? Just does a little warning make us feel good? 100 hours on the ground, right? Everybody, everybody feels like not even. Not even. Yeah, easy. Simple God, what up? You wanna bomb Warsaw? Thank you, Sophie Warsaw. Yeah, why not? Yeah, join the Great Club of dudes who did this. If I know one thing about that's that's that's that's fair. If I know one thing about history, it's that bombing Warsaw is always a good guy move. I have no response to that. I'm just concerned you heard it here, folks. Anyway, stop borking around. Thank you. So, Ohh, thank you for bringing it back to Robert Bork. So you're borking your life up. If, if Thurgood Marshall had held on a little bit longer and they're like, year and change, he probably would have had his successor appointed by President Clinton. But, like, and I'm not saying this, like, criticize the man. Like, imagine yourself in his position. You've spent your entire life fighting for civil rights and doing so very effectively. You are old and sick and in pain, and you're pretty ******* sure this Bush guy's going to win. The election, right. So, like, why continue to just sit there writing out dissent pieces while you're like kind of unable to function at your prior level? You know? Especially I'm not. I'm not. Yeah. Especially when that, like, I'm doing the best I can with what I have, quote, like makes you sound like ******* Hodor of like, just like just ripping up your body and you're like, I'm trying y'all. I'm desperately trying, but it's just they're ripping my body apart like I I can't. I have no, no blame for him in this, like. That he does. He does quit, you know. Wait, where where are those, like white women who are blaming their good Marshall? They're like, actually, if you really follow this domino effect, it was their good Marshall fart fault. Yeah, I don't. I don't. I don't. I don't particularly blame him. He's in a pretty bad historic position here. It is kind of tragic knowing that, like, oh, man, you were about to get a moderately more progressive person in the White House, but tragically, that did not happen. So he he he quits you know he does the old Irish goodbye and and bounces and yeah now George HW Bush is going to is one of his last things as president get to put another *** in a seat at the Supreme Court and you know at this point they can't throw another moderate in there you know Bush and John Sununu have like. Kind of edged the far right as much as they possibly can. And they need to pick a judge that like the the fascist wing of the party, he's going to get harder. Yeah. And and that that that ************ is Clarence Thomas. However, the realities of the selection process mean that they also need to convince Congress that he is not in fact a threat to abortion. That is the primary concern when Thomas gets nominated, right? Is that, oh, this guy's going to end Roe V Wade, right. That is the primary concern in 1991 that this guy's. Going to end Roe V Wade now, so a lot of Congress people, before approving him, want to like know whether or not he's a threat to the right to choose. And this is not as simple as it sounds, actually finding out how he would rule on it. Because Thomas, again, as we've kind of walked through this, he has no history as a trial lawyer. He's never worked as a judge prior to this, right? You know, he has absolutely no history of ruling on or considering cases or being involved with cases that involve abortion. There's nothing to read on and his actual past here. And part of that is because, again, he's not a ******* judge. So there's like, no way to look at how he's handled past cases here. He's like, what do you do, Sir? How did how the **** did your name get? Yeah, he's a political creature, right? Like he does not have and he is, he's kind of deliberately avoided being in positions where there's a whole lot to criticize him on in in most of these actual, like, super dicey. Areas so when he undergoes his confirmation hearings. Thomas fights hard to be, to avoid being pinned down on the matter of whether or not he supports the right to choose. He says at one point that he doesn't know how he's going to rule on abortion. Right. Like, I don't know, I don't know what I do. I don't know what I do. If that came up, you know, quote, I hadn't read those cases about privacy and I hadn't thought much about substantive due process since law school. I had constitutional law in 1972. Roe was decided in 1973. So he's literally like, I just didn't think about it much. I've been like, oh **** that's right. But then, like, I got out of law school. Yeah, like, I wasn't really thinking about it. Yeah, I might think I might say. Not a log, I hear, but I might say that not having thought about a major civil rights issue ever in your career would be include you. Yeah, maybe. Like, you shouldn't be a judge of the on the Supreme Court if you like. Never thought about this in your life. That's what's wild, too, is like, I'm sure there's like, this perfect again because he's this political creature, too. Like, he's benefited from just, like patriarchy and that he can be like a guy who has, really? He's replacing one of, like, the most brilliant Supreme Court justices with the dude who's never done ****. Like, yeah, that. Like, literally the ******* goat. This guy who by any standard has had an incredible pirate becoming a Supreme Court Justice, has an incredible legal career still to this day one of the most influential trial lawyers in the history of, like Western law. And he gets replaced by a guy who, like, had eight years as chairman of the EEOC and prior to that, like, briefly represented Monsanto. And then like, and then like nothing had the record for talking about ****. Yeah, like mostly just talking about it in the morning to his colleagues. Like what? So Thomas, though, is really good. You know, obviously he has no real background as a the kind of things you would want a Supreme Court Justice to have. But he has gotten really good at this point at using his personal background as someone who grew up poor and black to befuddle little liberals and kind of like, you know, push back on any sort of claims that he might not be a good fit as a Supreme Court Justice. He followed this statement. When I just read about how he hasn't considered privacy law by claiming, quote, I was more interested in the race issues. I was more interested in getting out of law school. I was more interested in passing the bar exam. My life was consumed by survival. I couldn't pay my rent, I couldn't repay my student loans. I had all these other things going on that you were navigating these worlds that you're navigating. So that's is like reason for why I didn't consider I never considered abortion or privacy. I had real things to worry about. You know, I had I as a as a, as a, as a poor black kid. I had like to actually fight to pay my rent, so I couldn't. Think about privacy rights, or the right to choose. Perfect. Perfect. Yeah, yeah. And that, like, it shuts down a lot of the criticisms against him in the Senate. Now, if you want a tremendously detailed look at how the confirmation process went or precisely why Thomas was picked, all of that stuff, I really do recommend the book Strange Justice by Mayer and Abramson. I think it is important to note that Thomas really plays up the aspects of his background that sound good to liberals when he is during this confirmation process because, again, he spent years. Playing up aspects of his background to appeal to the right, and now that he's gotta, like, appeal to the center, at some point he starts like really pushing the parts of him that do sound good to liberals. When he's asked what he minors in during college, he's tells the Senate protest. That it should be noted that many, many liberals at the time absolutely did not buy what what Thomas was trying to like get over on them. His far right views were well documented. His history, you know, we've talked about he gives all these speeches at the Heritage Foundation that New York Times article I quoted from earlier where he's like, that's criticizing him for being friends with a bunch of apartheid people and participating in like pro apartheid, like think tank events like that is known at the time. He's being criticized for that at the time and he also has a nasty. History of statements about things like racial intermarriage in women's rights. There was extreme suspicion at the time that he would be avoided. Vote against reproductive choice on the Supreme Court, and many, many people did not fall for his act. And so his confirmation process was contentious and brutal. And some of the ugliest moments during it came to the during the testimony of a former female employee who had worked with him at both the Department of Education and at the EEOC. And now it's time, miles to talk about Anita Hill. Yeah, yeah. You're not going to nobody's. Nobody's going to feel good about this. This isn't like a long ******* road to this point. Yeah, this is the road to Anita Hill Hill, but you know what? It's the road to first miles. Products and services. Oh boy. Yeah, this is, you know, this is a road that you can travel on your car when you replace your catalytic converter, which by the way, we're just gonna take again. Yeah. I mean, yeah, that's why that's winding up. Right in the pocket, baby. Right in the pocket. You're just at this point. Stop driving that Prius. Yeah, you know what? Yeah. No, you're not getting one serious. You know what I mean? That's what I say. Look, man, you can wrap it in razor blades. I don't care. I got gloves like I'm used to this ****. Yeah. Nobody kind of cannot stop. Treasures are inside that thing. Jyms, dabloons. All for you there. Inside a catalytic converter. Could you imagine? It's like it's all started. Is a myth from a pirate type guy. I'm imagining redoing the opening of the first Indiana Jones and instead of that like little head statue, it's like a catalytic converter sitting on the thing that he's gotta like saw out somebody somebody's parked their 2008 Prius inside a Mayan temple and he's just jacking that thing. Oh yeah, just yard there be many catalytic converters Yonder and then you go we there's rhodium and platinum inside in in the first Pirates of the Caribbean. Movie what's his name? The the the older pirate? Just like opening up a chest one. Yeah, Geoffrey Rush opening a chest and just like running catalytic converters falling out of his hand, washing his hand in it like it's a cool stream. Exactly. He got the he has the ******* chain necklace, made a catalyst, Elizabeth got like a catalytic converter necklace and it falls into the ocean and that's what wakes up all of the skeleton. Oh my God, that's merch, man. Where are the catalytic converter pirate chest set? That's right, baby. Here's some ads. 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I've never seen less enthusiasm for a great idea in my life. Ohh, miles, we're back. Yep, we're back. We're talking about both catalytic converters and Clarence Thomas. Yeah, mostly catalytic converters over the last minute or so. But you know, I think we can all agree much more relevant to civil rights law than than the Supreme Court is the catalytic converter. Look. I mean, look, we all say liberation through catalytic conversion. That's that's exactly right. Because miles, the Supreme Court takes away rights at the drop of a hat. You can't trust them. You can't rely on them. You can always rely on a catalytic converter to be worth hard cash, you know, 100% and absolutely saw this. Look, folks. And thanks so much for coming to this Hilton for this talk. But I got to say, with the market price right now for metals like rhodium, like Palladium, like platinum, OK, we call those the big three in the catalytic converter business. The trio has skyrocketed. OK. So we're talking. I mean, Sir, you can have a New Boston whaler boat if you wanted within two months. OK. Just hard ground. All right. Just don't buy any Prius because we're getting that cat. No, we are. We are popping that baby out of there. Yeah. Becoming that Prius, then you're gonna see us, you know that's right. Or you probably want to be honest. We're a little more, a little more subtle. Uh, so? Now it's time to talk about Anita Hill. This is not as fun as talking about stealing the catalytic transition. Yeah, what a what a transition. So there's a lot of ink has been spilled on the subject of Anita Hill, Clarence Thomas, what he did, what he didn't do. The gist of it is this hill was a young black woman who had grown up in a poor but comfortable farming family in rural Oklahoma. Unlike Thomas, she benefited from a strong, immediate and extended family who were were very tightly knit and and very like close to each other and supportive. She had a lot of emotional support from her family means coddled, yes, coddled, yes coddled into weakness by having a loving family. She was more or less a political centrist, and politically was extremely dedicated to her studies. Most people who knew her will agree that she was a tremendously ambitious young woman. She got into Yale, she was offered a prestigious job at a major law firm, and she was eventually recommended for a job under Clarence Thomas at the Department of Education. So she is a poor working class girl who works very, very hard, makes good and gets a prestigious job earlier in his her career working under Clarence Thomas at the DOE, which is like a big deal for her, would be a big deal for anybody in her situation. And initially she and Clarence have a good working relationship. They're very friendly, but with not in and not a whole lot of time, he graduates too. Heavy unwanted flirtation and I'm going to. Out from strange justice again. Thomas began to ask her out socially three to five months after she began working for him in July 1981. According to Hill, his approach was unusual. Rather than asking her to join him for a specific date or event, like a movie or dinner, he expressed his interest as a casual command, saying you ought to go out with me sometime. She turned him down firmly, she recalled, explaining that she enjoyed her work and believed it. Ill advised to date a supervisor, but he would not take no for an answer. Instead, she testified. In the following weeks, he continued to ask me out on several occasions. He pressed me to justify my reasons for saying no to him. So that's not that's bad. You ought to go out. What? You ought to go out with me. You know you ought to go out with me. That's it. Was he a Jedi? What the **** is that supposed to do? Yeah, this this is this is the. Loins, you're looking for and he's and he's married at this point. No. No, he is. Well he's not. When is he? When does he get remarried? 1987. Yeah. 87. So yeah. This would have been the because they start working in like 81. So yes, he's this is he's in between wives, I think at this point. OK. This in between wives. OK. Got you. Got you. Got you. Yeah. Sorry. Just wanted to where where he's at. Yeah. Yeah. This starts in between wives. Got it. So, yeah. That's not great. Uh. He'll later testified that Thomas never threatened to fire her if she did not date him or anything like that, but that he pressured her so much that it was a pot impossible for her to, like, do her job. He talked about sex, constantly calling her into the office to discuss work matters and then pivoting it once to gratuitous descriptions of ******* quote. His conversations were very vivid. He spoke of acts that he had seen in pornographic films involving such matters as women having sex with animals and films. Showing ***** *** or rape scenes, he talked about pornographic materials depicting individuals with large penises or large breasts involved in various sex acts. On various occasions, Thomas told me graphically of his own sexual prowess, mentioning at one point that he had measured his penis, which he said was larger than most. I would say that's not a good working environment. That's not like you shouldn't talk like that should probably get you in trouble. Anywhere unless you're like, unless you if you are a **** producer, that's probably appropriate work conversation. I will say that if you are in the pornographic film industry, then that's probably relevant, more or less normal conversation. Relevant. You're describing work, but in this you're supposed to be some kind of, yeah, you're the chairman of the EEOC or you're you're working at the Department of Education. Neither of those are places I would say that that's. Appropriate conversation. This is like when you know, like, she's so bad too. Or it's yeah, to any person you're like that, you know, you know, you know you should. No, you wouldn't if you were ******* driving with a friend on a road trip and they started having this conversation like, you would probably be like, hey, this has to stop. Like, this is not. I don't want to talk with you about this. Like, I'm not, again, very pro **** here. Not a prude here. But, you know, like somebody if again, if my boss calls me into his office. And it's like, you know, I was watching a video of a woman having sex with an animal. Let me tell you about how the horse's penis, what I what I saw it doing when it displaced her belly. And, like, that's like, I gotta write these cracked articles, man. You gotta give me time. Jesus. Wow. Wow. Wow, miles. No comment that's, that's, that's that's a wow. Miles Grace, last appearance on podcasting everybody. So this is like, bad, I think it's fair to say bad. Also, describing your own penis? That's really definitely a clear line. You shouldn't shouldn't do that to your coworkers. Now, when these allegations came out during the confirmation process, Thomas took an interesting approach to handling them right so he'll she only spends like a day being questioned. But like, now this comes out and it becomes there's this huge media thing about it. People are making a big deal about which they should. I'm not saying they're making a big deal about it. Like, it's bad too. This is a problem. Thomas takes an interesting approach to responding to it. Now, the smart play might have been to apologize for making her feel uncomfortable, right, or to say, like, I'm sorry, you know, I was joking. I'm sorry that my jokes made. I'm not saying that's good. I want to be clear. I'm not saying that would make it OK. I'm saying that might be the smart play as like a guy trying to get out of trouble is being like, not at least denied. I, you know, this is a, you know, I have this. I've spent a lot of time working around a lot of guys, you know, it's a, you know, we we we we make these jokes all the time. And I was just making jokes with her, like. But then they colleague, and I'm sorry that I it made her feel uncomfortable, right? Like that. That would be probably what most men in his position would do. Again, that's bad, but I'm saying that like, that's the that's the normal. That would be the right. Our societal flow of events typically is like that. He doesn't do that. Instead, he denies ever speaking to her about sex at all. And he also denies ever having similar conversations within the workplace at any point in time. Now, this is an obvious lie. Virtually every close coworker and colleague of Clarence Thomas has experiences which they later told to press, many under their own names of him talking about *********** and making weirdly explicit sex jokes. This is a constant experience. People who are friends with him and who worked with him have had, over the course of decades, multiple women who have worked with Thomas over the years have recounted identical experiences. Now I'm not going to go into tremendous detail about Professor Hill. She later becomes a professor. Now she's. Professor Hill, I'm not going to go into a tremendous amount of detail about her allegations other than to say that they are very credible. And they are backed up by the recollections of multiple people that she discussed Thomas's behavior with at the time, and also the experience of like, several dozen people who knew him socially and professionally in the years before he was nominated to the Supreme Court. What I will do is recount for you one more anecdote to make a point of how relentless his inappropriate sexual behavior at work truly was. And here's Mayer and Abramson. And Abramson again. Quote. One of the oddest of Hill's recollections was that one day, when she and Thomas were working in his office, he got up from the table where he had been sitting with her, went over to his desk to retrieve a can of Coca-Cola, and, after staring at it, demanded to know who has put pubic hair on my coke. I didn't have a clue how to interpret that, he'll testified. I did not know. It was a strange comment for me. I thought it was inappropriate, but I did not know what he meant. In the hearings, Thomas sounded equally baffled and defended by such language, asked by Senator Orrin Hatch. He had ever said such a thing, Thomas replied. No, absolutely not now. Miles. That's *********. And we know it's ********* because Mayer and Abramson, being good reporters, went and talked to a bunch of his coworkers and were like, he ever make any comments about like a coke and a pubic hair to you? And boy, howdy do a lot of people have the exact same experience Anita Hill did. This is like a thing for him. Quote. Oh, so this. OK, cool. Yeah. Just just let me let me get this through and then we could talk about it. Miles. No quote. Great Donnelly, a senior trial attorney at the EEOC until she went into private practice in 1986, distinctly recalled being told by a coworker in the early 1980s that chairman Thomas had said, and I thought it was in the presence of several people, that there was a pubic hair on his can of coke. Donnelly says she told her husband, Alan Danoff, who was an attorney at the EOC until 1985, about the peculiar comment. When interviewed, Danoff confirmed this. We certainly did hear about it back then, he said. Thomas's aide, Michael Middleton, also said that he heard about the he heard the pubic hair story associated with Thomas. 41985 When he too left the EEOC. I have this vision of clearance at the EEOC picking up a coke and saying who put this pubic hair on my coke? Recalled Middleton, formerly Thomas's principal deputy at the Department of Education and Associate General Counsel at the EOC, and now a professor at law at University of Missouri, Columbia. Middleton also remembered telling his wife about it at the time. During the hearings, he said he turned to her and asked if she remembered the story, and she told him that she did. So, like, that's a lot of people to know about you, like picking up Cokes in the office and being like, why is there a pube on this coke? Like, that's a lot of people who have had that, who, who are like, Oh yeah, that's a thing. Clarence does this stupid ******* thing to also be known for. It's a really stupid thing to be known for, a really stupid creepy thing to be known for. Yeah, and we're again throughout all these episodes, right? I'm just like, we're putting together this back story of a person who now is one of the most. Most one of the most powerful people on the planet, yes and is can skull **** the Earth people's rights whatever the **** they want with just because because of their ******* ****** Rd here. And also somebody who's also been afforded like some of the worst parts of like. You know, society, like, benefiting from just all kinds of **** that also gives him this, like, terrible sense of. Potency and like righteousness and **** and and all of it's coming together to. Like you were just watching it all play out now. Yeah, it really is kind of alarming. It just feels like the most. Yeah. Anyway, sorry. Yeah, I would say here's what I would say. That it's good. Hmm. Anyway, that's the end of the episode. Everything's fine. Look. Whom Whomst among us right has not? You know, everybody's coworkers have stories about them. For example, some of us might have a history of, you know, sneaking into people's houses at night and rubbing various poisonous plants on on children's clothing in order to make kids suffer, right? Like, nobody's perfect, but yeah, or maybe not all trying to be supreme. Much of jailbroken Amazon fire sticks? Sure, of course, who hasn't done that right? Or OfferUp. Yeah, you can. Honestly, bro. For 1:50, you'll get all the channels. You'll get access to this one Plex server. It's a real already has Wakanda forever on it for and he's not. And here's the thing about Miles is being very humble. Here's the thing he's not gonna say about these $150.00 fire sticks that he's selling. They absolutely will not steal your data so that people can can can make PayPal payments on your behalf into their own account. Absolutely not. Just won't happen. I just. I'm only here for the first transaction. I'm here to swipe your data and information because. It's not just like Clarence Thomas isn't getting on the Supreme Court in order to destroy a woman's right to choose. He's not going to do that. He doesn't even think about that kind of thing is he didn't even think about it, how we never would never think about it. He didn't even know about it. Anyway, Clarence Thomas gets confirmed by the narrowest margins of any Supreme Court Justice in history up to that point. I think still to this day, maybe Kavanaugh beat him. I didn't check on that. I should have. I would have if I wasn't a hack and a fraud. But he gets confirmed, right? That's all that matters. It's like the thing that people say about, like, what do you call the Doctor Who ranked last in medical class? Doctor? Like, he's still, he's on the ******* Supreme Court. Doesn't matter that it was narrow. Yeah. Yeah. Now, it is worth noting that when Hill told the Senate Judiciary Committee about what Thomas had done, Senator Joe Biden insisted her name not be used and that Thomas not be told of the allegations, which seriously limited the Senate committee's options in terms of actually doing anything about this, Joe has been accused of kind of acting to hush it up. Weird. Joe good thing that guy doesn't come up later in the story. Anyway, an FBI investigation was suggested and it was determined that Thomas had done nothing wrong. So they look into it for like a couple of days and they're like, it's fine. He didn't do anything weird. And I guess legally, none of this is really illegal, especially since he helped change the definition of what sexual harassment in the workplace was, right? Exactly, yeah. Yet, so that's cool. Anita Hill gets absolutely savaged by right wing media. Very few people. Who have been like more brutally attacked by the right than her. And yeah, it's it's it's a gnarly period of time. Although at this point, the majority of Americans when polled say they believe her side of the story. I'm, I'm calling it that. Not because I think there's actually sides to this, but you know what I mean. She's been vindicated. In addition to the fact that other allegations against Thomas have come out in the years since, like, she's been extremely vindicated. Professor Hill, you know, seems to have have have done her best, and I I have nothing but the best wishes for her anyway at this point. She has been backed up repeatedly by allegations made by multiple women and the recollections of numerous colleagues. Thomas, for his part, has spent the remainder of his life since then enraged at Liberals for questioning his honour and damaging his reputation. There are claims that he promised to make their lives absolute hell in revenge for what had been done. Whatever the truth, Thomas lost no time in being the worst judge he could possibly be. And I'm going to quote from The New Yorker here. And the 1995 case, Missouri versus Jenkins, the Court's conservative majority, held that federal courts could not force Missouri to adopt policies designed to entice suburban white students to predominantly black urban schools. Thomas joined the majority and the courts private deliberations about the case. He argued in the paraphrase of a profile of Thomas and The New Yorker. I am the only one at this table who has attended a segregated school. And the problem with segregation was not that we didn't have white people in our class. The problem was that we didn't have equal facilities, we didn't have heating, we didn't have books, and we had rickety chairs. All my classmates and I wanted was the choice to attend a mostly black or mostly white school and to have the same resources in whatever school we choose. This private sentiment made its way into Thomas's public statement about the case. His concurrence in Missouri V Jenkins was the only opinion, legal scholar Mark Graber argues, that questioned whether desegregation was a constitutional value. If anything, Thomas believes that the state should, where it can within the law, support the separation of the races. Looking back on his education and an all black environment, Thomas has admitted to wanting to turn back the clock to a time. And we had our own schools. Much of his jurisprudence is devoted to undoing the grand experiment, which he believes himself to be a victim of. As he made clear in 1986, I have been the Guinea pig for many social experiments on social minorities. To all who would continue these experiments, I say, please no more. Oh my God, when we had our own schools. What? Oh, he's literally saying separate but equal is fine. What a ******* backwards. I mean, yeah, everything's back. Yeah, going back in time. Yeah. What a charitable description. When we had our own schools. When we had our own schools. Yeah. OK. Well. That's yeah, it's good. It's good that he's on the Supreme Court. But you know what else is good, miles? Hmm. Goods and services, yeah, the products and services that support this podcast, you know, including and a lot of people don't know this, but we are, we are supported by the segregation industry, so. Hop on down. Not even funny. I Sophie, what do you what do you want? What do you want here? I have to do so many ad pivots. It's a bigger picture thing. I guess he's saying. Yeah, what is it now you talk about, right? I am talking about yes is primarily spends all up. Push its profits into supporting a return to segregation laws for sure. So if you're allowed to make that claim. No. OK, well. Doesn't barrage you with ******* trailers that play even when you don't ask them to. And so if you make the mistake of ever clicking on. You your your computer and TV saying scream at you. Have to bleep everything because that's what's happening. You don't have to bleep a factual statement about a company, Sophie and I hate what they do with their ******* autoplay. It's really ******* annoying. It's horrible. It's the worst. Bothers me. It's terrible, you know? And that's why the official iHeartRadio stances Pirate shows. I'm sorry, Chris, for all the bleeps you have to put in. Don't believe that part, though. Anyway, here's ads. Mint Mobile offers premium wireless starting at just 15 bucks a month. And now for the plot twist. Nope, there isn't one. Mint Mobile just has premium wireless from 15 bucks a month. There's no trapping you into a two year contract. You're opening the bill to find all these nuts fees. There's no luring you in with free subscriptions or streaming services that you'll forget to cancel and then be charged full price for none of that. 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If you're having trouble stuck in your own head, focusing on problems dealing with depression, or just, you know can't seem to get yourself out of a rut, you may want to try therapy, and better help makes it very easy to get therapy that works with your lifestyle and your schedule. A therapist can help you become a better problem solver, which can make it easier to accomplish your goals no matter how big or small they happen to be. So if you're thinking of giving therapy a try, better help is a great option. It's convenient, accessible, affordable, and it is entirely online. You can get matched with a therapist after filling out a brief survey, and if the therapist that you get matched with doesn't wind up working out, you can switch therapists at any time. When you want to be a better problem solver, therapy can get you there. Visit today to get 10% off your first month. That's better Slash behind this fall on revisionist history. Is there anything that we haven't talked about or or? Vascular like to add that seems relevant. You should have asked me why I'm missing fingers on my left hand. A story about sacrifice. I think his suffering drove him to try to alleviate suffering. And the shocking discovery I made where I faced the consequences of writing a book I thought would help people? Isn't that funny? It's not funny at all. It's depressing. Very depressing. Revisionist history is back with more. Listen to revisionist history on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. I've never seen less enthusiasm for a great idea in my life. Ohh, we're back. You know, I was just engaging in my hobby, which is taking the profits we get from the catalytic converters that miles steals and turning them into buying large numbers of flash drives, which I then put torrented copies of. The show Stranger Things on, and I just leave them lying around town in a variety of places. But I don't watch the show, haven't ever seen it, don't, don't intend to. That's just like to help other people pirate it. You have ranted to me. You, you and Hannah. Hannah. Both have opinions on this show. Well, OK, I watched season one, but I've pirated the others and I hand them out to people. You know why I do that, Sophie? Because one time I was having a conversation with somebody and was trying to put on a show that was on and screamed at me so loud that I felt momentarily uncomfortable and as a result I am going to war against them. That's why. Because earlier you when I said something you didn't like, you said you are like Papa. I don't know what that joke means. I love that joke, miles. Robert continue with all the the borking that needs to be done with the rest of the script. Yeah, Bork out with your corks out everybody. So sit. Yeah. Anyway, that's Clarence Thomas. Anti integration, separate leak, real pro guy. This ****** off a lot of people. Rosa Parks goes after him, she says at the time. Quote, he has had all the advantages of affirmative action and he went against it. If you've ****** *** Rosa Parks, you're probably bad. Yeah, yeah, 100% that. That would be like, what the owner of Little Caesars, like, pay for her house. Yes, I did hear that, yes. And Little Caesars always think it's one of the better because of that. What's ****** ** is that's good marketing because now when I think of Rosa Park, I think a Little Caesars and I feel bad about that, but I like crazy bread. I think they're crazy. Bread is pretty good. But I have to say, like, if I think about, like the things that would make me feel like a *** **** person, having Rosa Parks talk **** about me, like that's hard. If you have any kind of shame, that's that's a hard one to live because it's not like, it's not like Rosa Parks is doing like a ******* daily ******* live stream. Show or no, she's going to have takes on everything. It's like, yo, she had to come off the bench. Yeah, ******* suit up for this. Yeah, that says a lot. Yeah. So in the enigma of Clarence Thomas Corey, Robin makes the case that over the course of his time in power, Thomas has arrived at a fairly consistent set of beliefs about the constitution. His constitution, the one that he believes in, is not the Constitution as it presently. Like exists, or even the one that he really rules on. But it's actually two separate documents. There's the original Constitution, which is the Constitution as it existed at the founding of the United States and then there is the black Constitution, which is the one that existed after the Civil War. And the reconstruction amendments that brought brought black people into the country, as on paper equal citizens. Quote. Thomas's black constitution looks nothing like that progressive enterprise, far from making the United States racially egalitarian and humane, far from creating a multiracial. Democracy. The black Constitution features a society that is violent, racist, and regressive, a mix of Mad Max and do the right thing. The centerpiece of that constitution is the 2nd Amendment, reinterpreted via the 14th Amendment as applying not just to the federal government but also to the states. The individual's right to bear arms is what Thomas sees as the black man's main protection against a rampaging white supremacy, the critical right that the new constitutional order provides. There are no cooperative institutions of racial equality and democratic mutuality. Saint Thomas's political vision there are no union leagues, no Freedman's Bureau, no interracial politics and parties. There is only the defiant black man, reliant upon its constitutional right to arm himself and defend his family against white marauders. For Thomas, the Braughton Second Amendment, with its attendant vision of a racialized society armed to the teeth, is the keystone of the constitutional transformation that emancipation has wrought. Now, that might seem like a bleak vision of the country to you. Yeah, but yeah. Yeah, I find that kind of negative in a lot of ways. I find that negative as a guy who's like pretty supportive of the right to bear arms. Yeah. Like, yeah. I mean, it's like, maybe it's like mutually assured destruction or there should be no civil rights other than the right to shoot each other. That's. And that's all I got to say about that. Yeah. And who not ideal people do you live with in this? Yeah, Clarence. Yeah, yeah. So you know, obviously Thomas is very popular on the far right. A former US attorney under George W Bush who helped write one of Thomas's recent memoirs called him the quote Greatest Living American, which is a title you can find in a bunch of Fox News and other right wing articles about him. They they they love calling him that. But his support of the Second Amendment isn't, Robin argues, based on support for the kind of oathkeeper proud boy style militias popular on the Fascist right today quote when white conservatives. Think of the right to bear arms. They imagine sturdy white colonials firing their muskets at redcoats and then mustering and militias or modern day whites guarding their doorways against government tyranny and black criminals. Thomas sees black slaves arming themselves against their masters, black freedmen defending their rights against white terrorists, and black men protecting their families from a residual and regnant white supremacy. Thomas McDonald opinion returns repeatedly to scenes of white terror and black revolt. No other justice in McDonald devoted nearly as much attention to the violence of the black struggle against slavery. And the violence of the white struggle to restore slavery. And this is, again, why Thomas sees the 2nd to speaking to an individual right, and why he's also consistently against bands of cats on categories of weapons like handguns or assault weapons. This is interesting because it showcases one of the many ways in which Thomas is kind of inconsistent in his Second Amendment jurisprudence. In particular, Thomas has shown a particular willingness to slash through state laws he sees as violating elements of the black constitution. But Thomas is also a believer in the white constitution, which he sees as flawed but possessing valuable characteristics, particularly the tendency to devolve. Now we're back to the states. Robin makes a note of Thomas's opinion. In 2015, Brumfield V Cain as particularly enlightening. Here the case was about whether prisoners with intellectual disabilities should be disqualified from receiving the death penalty. The murderer in this case, Kevin Brumfield, had been abandoned by his father as a child and eventually murdered a police officer during a robbery. In his decision, Thomas contrasted Brumfield's case with the murder victim's son, Warrick Dunn, who was also abandoned by his father. Dunn's mom was killed. He was 18, and he successfully raised his five younger brothers and sisters while earning a position in the NFL. Thomas noted that Dunn quote did not use the absence of a father figure as a justification for murder. Now, obviously this story is potent father for a lot of fodder for a lot of think pieces, but many people at the time noted that it was kind of weird for Thomas to spend so much time on it during his like, judgment on the case because it has nothing to do with the actual murder itself, and it's kind of weird for him to use that platform to randomly contrast. Two black men when the case is about whether or not broomfield's sentence is just. Justice Alito was so weirded out by this, but that even though he agreed with Clarence Thomas on the broad strokes, he wrote a separate dissent in order to avoid including this tangent in his argument. Because he was like, I don't know, man, that's kind of ******* weird. Little what? Yeah. Yeah. Even Scalia is like, dude, I'm. I'm. I wonder because, yeah. If Clarence Thomas again, like, you know, like you said, it's chaos in his mind. And then he just suddenly, like, reflexively just was, like. And the difference between these two black men. Yeah. Is that one of them? Yeah. Takes. Excuse me. That's not what we're talking about. Clarence. Yeah. Oh. Yeah, right, and and Corey Robbins book makes clear that the rest of Thomas's dissent is just as ******* quote. For Thomas, however, it was indeed essential to the legal analysis. At the heart of his white constitution is a vision of two different kinds of black men, one who wills himself to become a patriarch, and another who wastes life, his own, and others in the absence of that patriarch, the liberal state Thomas believes would protect the second. His white constitution would help to produce the first. Dunn's example notwithstanding, the actively involved father is mostly a fantasy figure in Thomas's jurisprudence. A stern man of no particular racial identity, Thomas's patriarch once helmed the Republic, instructing, chastising and punishing his children in the interest of their development as moral beings and good citizens. In the beginning, Thomas proposes in one opinion, fathers ruled families with absolute authority. That authority was critical to the moral health of the nation, for it fostered children who learned the virtues and values of the Republic. And despite changes in the polity and parenting styles over the years, Thomas says people still believe that parents. Thomas, alternatively, depicts the authority figure as paternal and parental. Have authority over their children. The father is the head of the household, Thomas writes in another opinion, quoting from an earlier president, and has the responsibility and the authority for the discipline, training, and control of his children. That authority is based on the societal understanding of superior and inferior. In cases about the rights of minors, Thomas freely drops phrases like the continued subjection to the parental will and total parental control over children's lives. He's so. I don't like that, yeah. Yeah, and again. He he's like also like making this like Dad that he thinks he wishes he had to. Yeah. You know that he pretends his grandpa was when he's talking to the right, but that really was just absent from his life. Yes. Right. And then trying to like, then shape a society where like this dad exists that. Yeah. He like idealizes too. It's so we're all missing a dictator, dad, which is like, this is. Thomas didn't invent this concept. You know, in in Rome, they called the the the head of the House. Head of the family, which was generally like the oldest man, right? If, like if even if you were a kid, your grandfather would be this, the paterfamilias, right? Right, and you had the right as the father to execute your children at any time. Like, that was like a thing in Roman law during the Republic is like if your dad, you can kill your kids. Like you have that right that that you have. Absolutely. You ohh, he talked back to you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. OK. For sure you didn't hear about it being done a whole lot, but like you have that right. That was considered like the sacred right of not not a parent, but a father. And like, yeah, there's even, like, in Rome there was this kind of attitude that, like, you're not really an adult as long as your dad is still around. There was a whole lot of weird **** with fathers there. But like, this goes back to if you look at ******* German society, there was very much this idea that the Kaiser is the father of the nation, and likewise, the father should be the dictator of his family, the the unquestioned Regent, right? The Kaiser is this king that nobody can, can, can counter a question, and the father should be of the family, the same thing. And this is a big part of why the Nazis do so well in Germany later, right. Like, there's a lot of right? Yeah. They're all in line with the idea. Yeah. So Thomas is very much like speaking as part of a tradition of attitudes towards what the rights of a father should be. He just has decided that that's the core of what America and American law ought to be and what the founders all all sorts of all sorts of good **** even though you could also look at the entire birth of this country is like the history of a child rebelling from its parent. But whatever. Like, there's no point in arguing this sort of thing. So for the first like 20 years that this guy's on the bench, there is a tendency among liberal critics to reduce Thomas to Justice Scalia's shadow. Now, this is due to his reputation as the silent justice. Again. He never speaks for years. He doesn't say a single word during oral arguments. There's like a 10 year. Where he never speaks during oral arguments. And while it's true that he does rule kind of the same way as Justice Scalia on about 85% of cases while they're both alive, this is not really that exceptional or unusual during the same. Time Justice Breyer agreed with Justice Kagan 95% of the time, which nobody ever like, talks about. The claims that he was somehow copying Scalia were likely based in racism and that, in fact, people say the same thing about Thurgood Marshall. And one of the there's a white justice whose name I'm forgetting that was friends with Marshall that are like, oh, Marshall just does the same thing as his friend, you know, like, really these, these are, I think, both of these countries homework. Yeah. Based on some racism the extant evidence suggests that Thomas really just did truly respect. Delias ideas and jurisprudence since Scalia's death, Thomas has spoken more often in court and has repeatedly cited non judicial writings by his friend in his rulings. I found a write up in Politico by professor Richard Primus of some law schooler and other which makes the case that Thomas now basically used this Scalia the way that he uses the founders as a malleable ideological tool to reinforce whatever point he already wanted to make quote. Much of the time, Thomas will surely deploy Scalia in the name of a cause that Scalia would have endorsed himself. The two of them did agree on an awful lot, after all. But they were all also always different in the extent and flexibility of their originalism and the degree of their skepticism towards federal power, and in other ways as well. In the future, Scalia may be molded to Thomas's own vision. And the longer Thomas serves, the more the courts agenda will move beyond issues that Scalia directly confronted, thus giving Thomas even more freedom, whether by design or just by doing what comes naturally to him, to shape perceptions of what Scalia. Would have done. So that's interesting. Yeah, now it's yeah, it's it's like it's like what a Puff Daddy does with Biggie. He's like, you know, it's very Puff Daddy in. Yeah, my homeboy biggie, you know, he's dead. But y'all respect the idea of the concept of it. Yeah. And just wanted to deploy that for my own purposes. I have often called. Justice Scalia. The biggie smalls of the Supreme Court, right? And Clarence Thomas is Puff Daddy and absolutely no doubt. Hmm. And Sandra day O'Connor. Asop Rock's not going to explain that one, just moving right along. OK, so I'm not going to spend anymore time laboring on Thomas's jurisprudence or the cases that he's ruled on. This is one of those things where, like, the worst of what he's done and is doing is actually pretty obvious to most people because it's happening constantly. So we we all spend enough time dealing with that. Mostly. I wanted to explain his background, where he came from, what's going on intellectually, and like what are his internal justifications for the things that he's doing when he tears rights away from people and forces his weird demented. News on the populace, which he will continue to do until something is done to take that power away from him. So instead of going more into just like a list of his rulings on Supreme Court cases, I think we should close. We're talking about Jenny Thomas. Oh, great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You excited for this, miles? Feeling good. I mean, you know, behind every great. ****. That's right. Obsessed Supreme Court Justice. I'd love to hear as an equally obsessed, **** obsessed person, but I don't know. I'm. I'm. Let's take a look, please. I mean, all I know is obviously the latest. Yeah, the reason she's been popping in the news, but I definitely. I could I could know a lot more about Jenny Thomas. You're about to. So Clarence met Virginia lamp in early 1987. She was a lawyer from Nebraska, and early on in their marriage, she tended to be described as clearances opposite. Mayer and Abramson talked about her taking homeless strangers. Up to lunch and describe her sweet naivete. When the two first met, she worked for the Chamber of Commerce, where she was the Reagan administration spokesperson against family leave and comparable worth, AKA paying women for equal work equally right. That's Virginia lamp is like women shouldn't be getting equal pay. Maternity leave for what? Yeah. She need to be working if they're gonna be good mothers instead of examples for their kids. She's doing the the equal pay equivalent of supporting a Hawking apartheid. South Africa is like a prominent black guy. Yeah, exactly. So she's cool. That's good. Lamp is obviously very far right. And at one point she was close to joining a cult, a group that was basically a cult. And I'm going to quote from strange justice here because this is a fun little Side Story, miles. Lamp was, if anything, more conservative than Thomas. Her father. Her family, well connected and well to do, had provided the backbone of Goldwater support in Nebraska. Her father, a developer who had built some of the most exclusive gated, gated communities outside Omaha, was a party activist, as was her mother. When Lamp decided to move to Washington, her parents helped her find her first job there, a staff position in the Senate Office of Republican of Republican how daub of Nebraska. While in the capital, lamp joined an assertiveness training group called Lifespring. She became deeply involved in the group, but was troubled. In 1985, when during a life spring exercise exercise trainees were forced to take off all but a bikini to the tune of the stripper. As she described the incident, participants were pelted with questions about sex and urged to ridicule fat people's bodies. I had intellectually and emotionally gotten myself so wrapped up with this group that I was moving away from my family and my friends and the people that I work with, lamp later admitted. My best friend came to visit me as I was preaching and I was preaching at her. Using this tough attitude. They teach you. Now, strange justice was written back in the 90s and as a result, they don't have a lot of detail about Lifespring. It's like a soft cult. It's one of those assertiveness trainings like Guru training program type deals where you like sit around in circles and like everybody takes turns insulting one person at a time in order to like **** everybody up together and and bond the group through trauma. It's one of those good things, one of those good things. But you don't have to live here. Honestly, I have to say this is 1 case where if no one had gotten her out of the cult, we'd probably be better off. Well, it sounds like she found sounds like she's pretty malleable. That'll brain is pretty malleable. Yeah. In 1979, a Seattle woman with asthma died after a life spring trainer told her that she didn't need to take her medicine anymore. In 1982, with Seattle Man's family sued Lifespring for convincing him that he was both Jesus Christ and the Devil. So this is a cool group. So the lamp does get out of lifespring, sadly, and one of the first things that she finds after leaving this cult is Clarence Thomas, who she meets at an ADL event about civil rights. So that's good. From the colt right to clearance, he gives her a ride home and in pretty short order the two were boning, or I'm assuming they're boning there, at least a romantic item. One has to assume the boning follows. Lamp introduced Thomas to a church, Truro Episcopal, where she went. It was a popular, popular place for arch conservative, reaganites and profoundly anti abortion. The rector compared abortion to Holocaust on a regular basis. Over the following decades, Clarence and Ginni would have a life that often wove. Inappropriately, between his duties as his Supreme Court Justice and her career as a weirdo Republican operative from a write up by MSN quote While at Heritage the Heritage Foundation. In 2000, Jenny Thomas gathered resumes for a possible George V George W Bush administration, but Clarence Thomas rebuffed all calls for him to recuse from the Bush V Gore case that decided that the election. Thomas cast the deciding vote in the five four ruling that made Bush president. In 2011, 74 House Democrats vote wrote to Clarence Thomas asking him to recuse from any cases involving the Affordable Care Act. Because of his wife's work for heritage, which opposed the law, he declined and voted against upholding the law in 2012. She's working with the nascent Bush administration before Bush V Gore has decided she's trying to overturn Obamacare. She's trying to overturn the 2020 election, said Gabe Roth, executive director of fixed the court, which advocates for a more open and accountable federal judiciary. It's a real Forrest Gump type existence that none of the other previous 100 odd Supreme Court spouses have lived. So that's good. That's good that Jesus said that he didn't recuse himself from Bush V Gore. Good that she's like a consistent, ******** political activist. And that that doesn't mean he has to recuse himself from anything, even though the right would absolutely scream if the same thing was happening on the left. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Oh well, you want text messages from January 6? I don't know. You know, if my wife has anything to do with whatever, who gets the **** we get? The **** yes. I said it makes so much. Oh, I mean, just to be flippant for a moment. That. Someone who's coming from like a verbal abuse cult, like, goes on a date with creepy with Clarence Thomas it is. Yeah, this guy is so cool. He's actually the best thing, the nicest person I've ever met. Yeah, he's much better than the last cult that I was in. Which I don't know. Some people will argue that she's the one who's kind of leading him around. I don't know. I'm sure they both are ****** people who found each other and whose desire to hurt the world come on. Can a black man just ****** ** the world on his own? Yeah, exactly. I think, you know, just a case of true love between people who want to make the world worse you don't need, but you take agency away from either of them, you know, whatever. Whatever is going on there is just go. Oh, it's unbelievably horrible, but, you know. Anyway, Ginny Thomas is now in the news because she was kind of, sort of directly involved in a violent attempt to overthrow the government, overthrow the government, and institute a dictatorship. In the days leading up to January 6th, she sent 21 messages to Mark Meadows urging him to overturn the results. Help this great president stand firm, Mark, she wrote in one of them in response to a November 24th text from Meadows that he was intent on fighting for Trump's victory. Jenny Thomas replied. Thank you needed that. This, plus a conversation with my best friend just now, I will try to keep holding on. America is worth it. Now, the emails don't make clear who the best friend Jenny Thomas was referring to, although she has repeatedly called Clarence Thomas her best friend because he's her husband. Uh, yeah, that's good. That said, she denies all this publicly. In an interview with the Washington Free Beacon, a right wing news site, she said Clarence doesn't discuss his work with me and I don't involve him in my work. I'm sure that's true. There's more. More will be coming out. Probably has dropped by the time this comes out. There's like more on her and Jan 6, this is all. And maybe she'll get she might get charged like that's not impossible at this stage given where we are. I don't think it's likely, but you know. People are talking about it. I don't think anything's ever going to happen to Clarence Thomas other than he will continue to get his way. No, and have some real weird conversations with people. Yep. So how do you feel, miles? Umm, pretty weird, but you know, just. Just gotta keep on keeping on. Yeah, as we say. You know miles. What this reminds me of, this conversation between you and I, is a little a little thing that Jesus Christ said to his disciples when he was preaching out, preaching on that mountain, miles. And he said to them, you know, the world is full of the minions of Satan, but you know what will protect you from the minions of Satan? Is the precious metals held in a catalytic converter? Thank you so much. Get one of them. Get them all. Catch them all. Absolutely got to catch them all. Jesus Christ said that. Mark 419, that's right. But the worries of this life, the deceitfulness of wealth, and the desires for other things come and choke the world, making it unfruitful, without catalytic converters. OK, Wow, wow the word of God. Thanks be to him. Yep. Oh, that's so sick. You get the Jesus fish. But like with catalytic converter. That's right. That's right. Ohh, you love to see it. So. Had to pivot away from the darkness of our ******* judicial yes, yeah, what else are you gonna do? So anyway, that's, uh, that's Clarence Thomas. Sick. Thanks for making me feel a lot better about this, actually. You know, that's how I feel. I feel a lot better about this because you got to know what you're up against, absolutely. And he he is aware of the effect that, you know, the Dobbs decision has on, you know, adult film performers. Right? You know, that is interesting because I wonder if he's like, maybe because his wife super religious, she's like, I don't know, maybe there's something weird going on there RE his ability to watch **** now. I don't know. I don't know. No ******* way. No ******* way. Maybe that's his his thing. He he just wants a strong woman to tell him he's not allowed to watch **** and hit him every time he tries to. Maybe that's what gets him off. We don't know where the rolled up newspaper. Yeah, and a bowl full of cornflakes. Alright, that's right. Who knows? Allegedly. Yeah. Anyway, you got any plugable smiles? Yeah, just. You know, check out your local mutual aid organization. Check out your local mutual aid organization. Check out Clarence Thomas. In the next Supreme Court ruling that will read up, you know, educate yourself. And yeah, at miles of Grey, wherever they have at symbols. That's right. I have a book. It's called after the revolution. You can find it anywhere you want to. You can find it on Amazon. You can find it on the AK Press website. You can find links there to a bunch of local indie book dealers where you can buy it. So go to Google AK Press after the revolution or get it literally anywhere else. Yeah. Ohh yeah, also daily that guys check out. Oh yeah, that's the Daily podcast. That out too. That's the one. Yeah, check that out. Bad. Check it out. Also boost it. Bam. Behind the ******** is a production of cool zone media from more from cool zone media. Visit our website, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, I'm Erica Kelly from the podcast Southern Fried True crime, and if you want to go from podcast fan to podcast host, do what I did and check out spreaker from iheart. I was working in accounting and hating it. Then after just 18 months of podcasting with Spreaker, I was able to quit my day job. Follow your podcasting dreams. 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