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Hello, I'm Erica Kelly from the podcast Southern Fried True crime, and if you want to go from podcast fan to podcast host, do what I did and check out spreaker from iheart. I was working in accounting and hating it. Then after just 18 months of podcasting with Spreaker, I was able to quit my day job. Follow your podcasting dreams, let's break or handle the hosting, creation, distribution, and monetization of your podcast. Go to spreaker.com. That's spreaker.com. Hey there, it's Ebony Monet, your co-host for the San Diego Zoo's Amazing Wildlife podcast. In this special episode, we're speaking with Doctor Jane Goodall about the fascinating journey that led to her impactful behavioural discoveries on chimpanzees. It wasn't until one of the chimpanzees began to lose his fear of me, but I began to really make discoveries that actually shook the scientific world. Survive on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Sisters of the Underground is a podcast about fearless Dominican women who stood up against the brutal dictator Kapal Trujillo. He needs to be stopped. We've been silent and complacent for far too long. I am Daniel Ramirez, and I said Dominicana myself. I am proud to be narrating this true story that is often left out of the history books through your has blood on his hands. Listen to sisters of the underground wherever you get your podcasts. What's branding my sex slaves? Ohh boy, that's a bad intro. Ohh my gosh. When Sophie's not here, this gives off the rail so hard. I, Robert Evans, hosted behind the ******** we tell you about all the worst people in all of history. My guest today on a Salinas. Anna, how are you doing today? I'm doing great. I'm so excited to be here now. Anna, you are of course the the the author. Slash artiste behind bad comics. Diana, that's lovely comics. Yeah. Anything else you wanna plug up at the top? Oh, God, yeah. You know, if you're in LA, come out to CBS. I perform on some teams and check them out. Well, you know UCB, about a year ago today, we thought, well, not today, but about a year ago, we talked about how it's a little bit, a little bit culty, and we talked about that in the context of a guy who was definitely a cult leader named Keith ************* Ranieri. We did. That's so interesting because an article came out about UCSB like 2 days ago. That really hinted at its Coltness and we are checking in about a real cult. Yeah, and it's it's one of those things. Like, I do want to reiterate when I talk because I I have a lot of friends who are in CB considered what a part of their lives. Yeah, you gotta be careful. This episode could get pulled you trash talk, it could could be pulled if I trash talk it. Thankfully, that's never happened before. Any really good thing is going to have a couple of little culty elements to it. You know, I'm a big fan of Burning Man regional events. There's a little bit of that. A little bit, a little bit. The key is that the key is like no cult leader. You know? The key is the things that make a cult, like love bombing and stuff like that. If there's no purpose behind it, if it's just a way to make people feel welcome, then it's not necessarily a toxic thing. Like, there's all these things that can be pieces of a cult, but if you don't have all of the pieces, it can just be like a bunch of buddies learning how to do improv together. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Which doesn't mean that there's not addictive aspects to that or they can't have problematic aspects to that. Yeah. And the pay in aspects, yeah. And the pay in aspects where you pay more to be more in it. Yeah. That's always the thing that I think that's one of the keys in addition to having a cult leaders potentially is like how much money is being used by people and I guess when it's like a full on. Colt. Colt. Keith Raniere style. Colt. Yeah. That cult leader is making all the money themselves. Yes. And now that we're back to Keith Ranieri, today's episode is, of course I say it wrong every time. Ranieri. Ranieri. I think it's Ranieri. Yeah, it is. Yeah. And I I know I knew it when we did it last time, but today we're talking about the end of Keith Ranieri. Yeah. Yeah. Because earlier this month, in June of 2019, Keith Ranieri was convicted of running a sex cult. Human. Trafficking, racketeering, child *********** and child sexual abuse. He faces a 20 year to life sentence and although he plans to appeal his conviction, right now it looks like Vanguard will spend the rest of his life in a cold cell. Wow. Yeah. Yeah, that's good news. That is good news. That is good news. I'm not a prisons guy. It's true. I'm not either, but he is one of those. Like, usually I think that, like, even for like really bad people, like the folks behind the financial crash and whatnot, there's other things than prison that you could use to punish them or whatever. A guy like Keith does need to be locked away. He like he's too dangerous. Wherever he is, he's gonna do this. Yeah. Which is what his career has shown. Yeah. This is the only like this. Making cults is the only thing he's capable of doing. So yeah, that's his life. So, yeah, keep him away from people. Yeah. Yeah. Now, uh, the six week court case that led to his conviction has revealed a treasure trove of new information about how Nexium, which if you remember is the name of his cult. Spelled like in expelled. So confused. Like an ******* spells it. Yeah, like when I look at it, my brain reads VI *** navidson. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they, to make it more ******* confusing, I learned as I was reading through like stuff about the court case that members of the cult called themselves Nixons, which is just even more like the president. What? What? Like a Nick Richard Nixon. Like, yeah, Richard Nixon. Yeah. That. If they called themselves the nixons. Yeah. Like, yeah. Nixie and politics or something. Nixie and politics. Which is just yelling the inward while drinking heavily, right. Absolutely. And then, like, throwing up peace signs with your fingers. Nixon. Yeah. You got there. That's gonna be a fun episode of the podcast. Oh, you haven't done him yet. No, I mean, I got, like, it's one of those things. Like, there's so many. There's a lot. Well, please have me for that episode. Because I love to learn about. Talk about tricky **** Nicks. Yeah. And I mean all I know about him I learned on in that movie with Kirsten Dunst. Yeah. I think that's got most of it. ****. ****. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's got most of it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Never seen it. But I assume it's comprehensive. It's a delightful female driven comedy, just like Richard Nixon's life. Yeah. Now, this is kind of female driven, but it is not a comedy, although you can make a solid comedy. Oh my God, this I. Not to be callous, but this deserves. Of comedy movie. Yeah, who do? In the style of vice. Ohh, yeah, that that's who. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that. That would be really solid with Allison Mack playing probably the Seagram's vodka air. Oh yeah, which? One of the things that came out during the court case is that next game was almost entirely funded by the the Brahmans, the Seagram's Vodka Girls. Yeah, like they were. They really poured a lot of money into that. Wow. Yeah, that I mean. Seagram's vodka, are they OK? Are they're gin too? They're not good. They're like in terms of the quality of their liquor. In terms of the business model, though, they seem to be fine. Ohh yeah. The the feeling I get of the Bronfman family wealth is that they could have given hundreds of bottom lesser tickets to Keith and it would, it wouldn't have mattered. We're talking like, L Ron Hubbard pockets here. Wow. I will say if you're an aspiring cult leader and you listen to this podcast, which is smart, absolutely. Absolutely. Very smart. This is probably one of the biggest tips. Yeah, you could get is, is just don't try to con a bunch of people. No con one. Dumb rich kid. Absolutely. Really rich kid. Yeah. Bottomless pit of inherited. Well, yeah. Like, could throw away passenger jets every month. Rich kids. Yeah. And they're out here. Yeah, there's a lot of them. Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of them. And until we starving masses eat them. On the matter of their money, because I won't, I will not write about someone who just cons rich kids out of their money. No. And that's a Robin Hood figure. And if Keith Raniere had just been counting the Brahmans out of 10s of millions of dollars, would be cool with him. And yeah, if that's all done, just none of the sex cult stuff, the sex cult stuff, which we're going to talk about the sex cult stuff today. So in March 2018, Ranieri and his followers acted in the best traditions of scammers throughout history and fled the United States from Mexico. This was because. Numerous law enforcement agencies had begun investigating Keith and Nexium for their numerous crimes. Now, as everyone listening knows, moving is an extremely stressful process, whether you're heading into a new APT 2 blocks away or fleeing the country and always sucks. Yeah, and after getting settled into Puerto Vallarta, Keith decided he and his followers needed a recommitment ceremony, which, you know, got to settle back in a recommitment, recommitment ceremony. Yeah, that's smart. That's like, I've noticed morale dropping. I just want to make sure everyone psyched. Yeah. Yeah. And these are he, you know, he had gone from his. Is normal, stable. His harem, I guess you might call. It was like 20, you know, 2122 different women, right? And he was down to like 7 right when they moved to Puerto Vallarta, you know? You know? Yeah, it's the same thing. You're gonna you're gonna break a couple of knickknacks when you move. When I'm. When I moved recently, I lost a beautiful end table that I love. Oh, I'm so sorry. Yeah, but you get more, but you get you get more right experience. But once you settle down, and that's what Keith was trying to do, you know? Absolutely. You lose dozen or so sex slaves, but then you recommit to the ones you have. And when we say lose, were they. Like in the press? No, I think talking about it or I think they just weren't quite loyal enough to move to Mexico, just like quietly slipped away. Yeah, either that or it may have just been that, like, his funding got a little tighter and he could only afford to move so many of these women with him, right? I don't know the exact reason. OK, one of the women who went along with him is Lauren Salzman, who is Keith's long term partner in Nexium and one of his first line slaves in the women's group DOS, which of course translates in Latin like this. An acronym in Latin for Women under a submissive Master, I think is like the rough translation. So yeah, yeah, yeah. Salesman claimed on the stand when she testified against Keith that the ceremony was meant to include group oral sex to do something special for Keith. Quote, honestly, I didn't want to do a recommitment ceremony. I didn't want to start DOS again. We had to believe that we were under possible indictment, but I didn't feel like it was my option to not go forward with their ceremony. So Salzman claims that she's starting to get cold feet at this point, and she's been she's been with him for like years and years and years, right? Well, they're about to be arrested, and I I wonder how much of her contrition. In like expressed disgust here is legitimate because I could totally see her being ******* tired of this guy. You never know you never know, you never know. She could just she's gone along this far. Yeah and I mean at this point you you get the sense that everyone feels the shadow of the law and it's it's sort of hard to tell how much of their continuing devotion to him is like in for a penny in for a pound and how much is it of it is legitimately being taken in by the the grift. But we'll we'll talk a little bit more about that as as this rolls along. OK, so as the members of Keith Sex cult prepared to engage in their mass ******* campaign, federal agents with rifles posted up around the house. Salzman and several slaves had been taking a pre **** nap with Keith. She says she went into the kitchen to make a smoothie when another first line slave ran in from the front room and told her police are out the door and they are looking for Keith. Quote, honestly, I went into one mode, protect Keith. I closed all the doors, all the blinds and I looked out the window and all I could see was federal agents with machine guns surrounding the property. Keith refused to leave. He wanted to stay. Wow. Yeah. OK what's she really making? A smoothie? Yes. She says she was like they had like a pre ******* **** now. Yeah, and then she was gonna make a smoothie. I get it. You need nutrients. Yeah, and I feel like you wanna smoothie after you do that with Keith Raineri. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, that part doesn't add up for me. That part doesn't add up. Still listening. Now, Keith had insisted the salesman that he was the protector of all the women in his cult. But rather than taking action. Protect the women in the compound. Vanguard hid in the bathroom and desperately begged his slaves not to tell the cops he was there. My main concern was to protect Keith. It was almost automatic. I chose love over everything, just like we were taught by Keith. Now, Salzman claims it was Keith's arrest and the way he selfishly fled and abandoned his followers to hide in the bathroom. That was the thing that finally lifted the scales from her eyes and made her realize she'd been conned during the trial. Yeah, yeah, maybe. Yeah. I mean, this is truly a movie waiting to happen. Yeah, that is your climax right there. And McConaughey would be a great Keith Ranieri. My God, wouldn't he? Ohh yeah. No, he would. He would nail that *******. Yes, he would. He'd be such a good grifter. Mm-hmm. McConaughey would also be a good guru. The sex cult. Ohh yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, I hope he's not. I hope he's not currently not. I like to think better of Matthew McConaughey than yeah. Only since the maconnais once have I wanted to think better of Matthew McConaughey. When did the Maconnais dance start? When he was on a True Detective? Detective? Absolutely. Look, I didn't see beach bum, that harmony crime movie, but he looked like he was good in it. Yeah, I'm sure he was. Yeah, he's a good actor. Wolf of Wall Street? Pretty, pretty decent. Mediocre bourbon salesman, too. That's true. Yeah. Yeah, he's a he's a solid salesman of indifferent bourbon. That's true. Doesn't he? Do the cars? Look, I'm getting so off topic. We're getting very off topic. I feel bad. Because this original episode was like 5 hours, it was a lot of stuff we have, we have less here we have is is real ****** **. I'm staying on topic. So Salzman claims, yeah, that it was Keith's arrest in, you know, the way he reacted that finally let her realize what was going on. During the trial we heard from many, many other women and other than Salman about their own journeys with Ranieri. Prosecutors claim that he called himself the smartest, most ethical person in the world. That's a direct quote and compared himself to both Albert Einstein and Mahatma Gandhi. They made the wise decision. Not to let him take the stand himself. So he never testified, which I think is a good call. Don't let the coleader test. I wonder, though, do you think he could have, like, hypnotized the jury? I don't know. I wonder if a guy's power like that is broken if he's not one-on-one. Because Keith was never the kind of guru like you look at his videos on YouTube, they never had huge, huge. Like, he wasn't the kind of person like millions of people wanted to watch. I think he he strikes me as the kind of person who had an intense one-on-one charisma. And that's how he kind of worked everything. Which is why his quote was pretty small, right? Yeah. He didn't, like, start a giant mega church movement. He wasn't a Hubbard type like he clearly wanted to be, but like, Hubbard had that ability. Right. On a scale. Didn't even Ted Bundy. Even Ted Bundy because he could do it from the stand. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And I I don't think Ranieri could do that, but I still think it's probably a good idea. You know, just even if all you're saying is, like, ******* talking enough. Yeah. Yeah. Which he has. He has. Yeah. Yeah. Among other things, the victims of Keith Ranieri talked about Nexium's most beloved tradition. Vanguard Week every August, members of the group. Called themselves nixons, uh would spend roughly $2000 to attend a birthday celebrations for Keith and Silver Bay, NY. The center of the event were tribute ceremonies to Vanguard, a witness explained in court. There was always sort of entertainment or different kind of tribute ceremonies to keep from the different centers where there would be like performances of singers. But it was all kind of centered around the idea of a tribute to Keith and celebrating Keith's work sort of like a summer camp for adults. That sounds doesn't sound like summer camp fun if you're key. Yes, summer camp for me was. Like learning how to start fires and kayak. Like, yeah, where's the nature element? Yeah, why? It's we weren't just celebrating a guy. Maybe, like, cause you have different tribes. At camp we had, we had like 4 tribes and they were the different centers. They were the different tribes. Yeah. Yeah. And like, even that doesn't sound because that sounds like like, like, like fun, kooky cultural appropriation as opposed to like, yeah, just tributing one guy. Like, what do they mean by performances? So it would be like someone would come and do like a. Song yeah, I'm gonna guess their songs about Keith and his his wisdom and importance. Because now that you said there was like this oral sex thing going on, in my mind I'm like, ohh, all the songs would just end with Keith getting a *******. Yeah, I I think, like, I think maybe it's like a whole week of a of watsky's going down, but all themed around ******* Keith Raineri. Yeah, yeah. Creepy imagine getting. I assume it was an e-mail. An e-mail invite to that birthday party. Ohh, probably. I'll get excited. You're our annual celebration. It's Keith's birthday. Yeah. You get to spend $2000 and then come up and do a song about him and put on little skits about his wisdom. Put on skits. I bet there. Yeah. I mean, there were skits. Yeah, the skit part does sound like camp now. Now I'm thinking about it. It's like camp theater. Yeah. I mean, I kinda wanna do a vanguard. Week where we all make songs about Keith Ranieri. Just without him there. Yeah, and without people paying 2000 bucks. Yes. And. Oh my God. Liquored up to hell. Yeah, all of your listeners are gonna want that to happen. Now, if we ever do see, this is just gonna lead to me creating a cult. Yeah, this is just gonna lead to me creating, right? You know, I gotta be aware of that. Slippery. It's a fine line. Line. It's a fine line. And I am this close to starting a cult at any given moment. I can tell. Like, right there. Give off that vibe. Thank you. Thank you. I shoot for that. I can. I can feel you holding yourself back. Hmm. It's like, I don't know what it's like. I don't have a good simile here, but I am trying. Yeah. Yeah. Well, good for you. I'll fail one day. I'll fail one day. And they and then you'll run for president? Well, no. They'll catch me in the Adirondacks with, like, 70 or 80 people wearing, like, white sheets and, like, a cache of weapons. Oh my God. That's so gonna happen. You'll have this long beard. You'll have been, like, hunting deer for sustenance. You'll have been there for seven weeks. Yeah, my goal is the Branch Davidian compound. With better drugs and no kids and no kids. Hey, man. Yeah, I got kids. Could happen. No. OK. No. Because some one of the drugs there will be RU 486. Yeah. Yeah, well, you know, everyone should joke about that, because that's where this goes. No. Yeah, I shouldn't joke about that at all. I know this does. This is the part where we can joke, I think. Before. Yeah, it gets. Yeah, before we get to the actual cult leader forcing women to have abortions. Yeah, we we shouldn't joke about that at all. I apologize. Deeply. Yeah. If I have a cult, I won't do that. Well, good. It'll be it'll be a cult where women can choose to fend off the FBI in our mountain compound. OK. Yeah, OK. They are. But also men. Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. It's called absolutely. Yeah. No, no, I mean, I'll, I'll **** whatever kind of cult members, you know, once once it takes you over, the spirit gets in you. Yeah, until the FBI or ATF burns us down. I mean, Umm, it sounds like a commune. Yeah, commune. Bolton's fine line. You just have to keep your profile. Well, no, I really I I'm. I'm not sure if it's the ATF I wanna provoke or maybe maybe the FDA cause. No Colts ever been murdered by the FDA yet, and I think they have that capacity. I feel like they got some grenade launchers locked away. Do that. I think the FDA is like four people who work for big corporations who just meet twice a month and move around some papers. Yeah, that's the uncharitable view. The charitable view is that it's two very tired people trying to explain to everyone that. Turmeric isn't medicine. Yeah, you know what? I that's true. They also serve an important function. Ohh boy. OK, so FBI special agent Michael Weaver claimed in court that at its height, the organization allowed Keith to maintain a stable of 15 to 20 sex slaves at any given time. These women were forbidden from even touching another man, in line with Nexium teachings that men were fundamentally polyamorous while women were monogamous. Again, this is just bigamy. The most disturbing story in the whole Nexium saga is the tale of Daniela when she was 16. Their family moved to the US from Mexico after hearing about Vanguard and his wonderful organization. The six of them moved into a two-bedroom condo in Albany and began taking self help classes. We don't get many details on Daniela in the court documents, but I'm going to guess her family is or was rather affluent now. When she moved to the US, Daniela had never been kissed or had any kind of sexual experience. She was introduced to Keith during his vanguard week celebrations and Keith clearly fell in love with this again, literal child quote. I didn't see Keith that way, but I could see in subtle ways that he was. Flirting with me now. I believe he was grooming me. Ohh that word. Grooming. Grooming is 16. Which you know if you remember from the other episodes Keith did a couple of times. That was his MO. Yeah, yeah. One of them committed suicide later. Yeah. Daniella claimed on the stand that their relationship quickly escalated in a sexual way, but did not immediately escalate to sex itself. That would have been too pedestrian and normal crime for a guy like Ranieri. Keith told her that they would consummate their love when she turned 18 and it was nice and legal. In the meantime, he told her she was too fat and needed to lose weight. They'd be able to bone when she was old enough, no? Yeah. Yeah. This is such a tool of sociopathic, manipulative dudes controlling weight. Yeah, I wonder how much of it was even, like, what he was actually turned on by, and how much of it was just the need for control over them, which just it's an easy leverage. I think it's control. Yeah, I. There was a screenwriter who was not that recently outed, but, like, really? Oh yeah, yeah. I mean, we could have an issue with saying his name is ******* Max Landis Landis. Max ******* Landis. But yeah, that was a thing he did. Yeah. He would tell his girlfriends a girls he was dating that they were too fat and they needed to get thin and they were anorexic. Yeah. Yeah. I shouldn't say I'm maybe they were, but I feel like they talked about that, like, they already had issues with. I think he was saying, yeah, it's it's it's common. It's a thing for, like, controlling men to, like, because it's easy because, like, there's all these. Digital reinforcers too. Yeah. We're like any woman in the world can be convinced she's fat just because of like the way that the way that. Yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah, Ranieri or a Danielle said on the stand. Quote. He said he could not share his sexual energy with someone overweight. Yeah, Keith. OK, yeah, sure. Yeah. So we're gonna talk more about what Daniela said on stage, and we will get to the horrifying revelations that make it so very inappropriate for me to have joked about RU 486 morning after pills. But first. This is maybe my worst lead into ads ever. Gay. 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I always tell people I am so not tech. Took me 5 minutes to get comfortable with spreaker, and when I find a new friend that has an incredible show, I want them to make money. I want them to be able to do what I did. Follow your podcasting dreams. Let's break your handle. The hosting, creation, distribution, and monetization of your podcast. Go to spreaker.com. That's spreaker.com. You get paid to talk about the things you love with spreaker from iheart. Hey y'all. This is Caroline Hobby, the host of get real with Caroline Hobby honest women honest talk. I love podcasting. It is so much fun because I have the most in-depth, spiritual, soulful, real, honest conversations with women who are mothers, who are entrepreneurs, who have started their own businesses, who are married to celebrities, who are celebrities themselves. These women are juggling motherhood, being a career woman. Starting their own businesses, taking leaps, knowing when to jump. These women are incredible and the conversations are so real it will hit every nerve in your body. As a woman, a little bit about myself, I was a country music artist and a trio. I traveled the country open for every celebrity you can imagine and country music. I've also been on The Amazing Race twice, and I'm married to Michael Hovey, who is the lead singer of 1000 horses. And we have our precious daughter Sonny, who's two. Listen to new episodes of get Real with Caroline Hobby every Monday on the Nashville podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio. At Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcast. We're back, we're back and we're talking about Daniella. One of Keith Ranieri's victims probably has like most. Hurt victim, like of the people in the least that we're talking about today, the one who got ****** over the the worst by Ranieri. OK, so once she turned 18 and was presumably thin enough for Keith's sexual energy vanguard called Daniella to tell her that it was time and in the tradition of all great romances, he took her to an office building storage room to ****. No. What? That's what women want now. He's doing right there. He is so rich at this point, isn't he? I well, no. He lives a quiet church mouth slice. Like existence, if you remember. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. That's true. So, OK, storage room. Best storage. Storage room. Well, that's what, you know, I I consider myself a a romantic. And if I know one thing about women, it's that all of you desire the sheer ****** intimacy of an office building. Storage room. Oh yeah. I mean, you read ****** novels and they are front to back. Just storage. Storage room box is a hammermill paper, you know, you know, reams or. Like, like, like pallets of of of blue pins. Yeah, there's a whole series about those storage units. Oht. Yeah. Where you you pick up the what are those called? You know, the oht. Yeah. The doors. Like the the metal, the metal, the metal doors that slide open. Yeah, there's like a thrill you could get stuck in this set. The smell of printer ink cartridges. Ohh. That's why the most popular men's Cologne brands or printer ink cartridge. Oh yeah. Yeah. To buy one. Just to smell. Yeah. No, I'll rub it like one of those from a dot matrix on me before going out for a date. Really? Yeah. Ohh. Haven't had sex in years, but but that's just who you're around. Related? Yeah. Hmm. Now. So they they had their storage room liaison, and after this, Daniela was expected to constantly give Vanguard ******** several times per day. She alleges that she and her sister were forced to have ***** *** with Keith several times, saying we cried the whole time in court. Yeah. Now, Daniela and two of her other sisters were impregnated by Keith Ranieri, and he forced all three of them. Have abortions, which he paid for. Daniella claims that after her abortion, Keith tried to raise her spirit by telling her that the operation was a good opportunity to lose more weight. Yeah, yeah, abortion will make you Ben, he told her. Quote Olympic athletes get abortions as part of training. Go ahead. That's so crazy. I mean, I can't. I guess at this point she's been groomed. She's like being deeply manipulated. She is brainwashed. Yeah, where were her parents? Her parents are in the cult. Ohh yeah, they moved from Mexico to the US to be a part of this thing. So yeah, they've they've clearly fallen for it. And like, you know, by the time they meet Keith's a guy in his 50s, she's 16, so like he's got. Two of her lifetimes of experience just manipulating people. Yeah. And she's a ******* teenager. Yeah, she's a kid. Yeah. Yeah. So Keith clearly took pains to make sure his sexual liaisons with Daniela and her sisters didn't start until they were of legal age. But she did allege. And authorities found child *********** taken of the girls before they were of legal age, I'm sure. Yeah. This whole idea that he waited exactly until they were 18. I don't buy it. Yeah, yeah, I he definitely, at the very least, he had a legal **** of these girls before he started sleeping with them. It may have been one of those things where he convinced himself that if he waited to actually **** until they were 18, that he'd be safe. But, like, I don't. By the year, to be honest, I wouldn't be surprised. Although probably sending dirty text messages. He was definitely doing a lot of that. Yeah, yeah, it was. I mean, he was having her lose weight to be ready to **** him for two years while she was a child. That's true. Which I don't know if that's exactly a crime, but it ought to be. Ought to be. Yeah, that's what we have precedent at. That to the books. Yeah. So essentially, Daniella at one point, after like starting her relationship with Keith Ranieri, expressed an interest in a man who was not Keith Ranieri. She apparently kissed a male Nexium member and that. Made him furious. He told her that she wasn't pure anymore. Then he threw her across the room and left her lying on the floor. Oh my gosh, she said. The world closed in on me. Every degree of freedom I had was lost. Daniela was imprisoned in a bedroom for two years, locked outside of where her family was living, but unlike, didn't see her family for two years, even though we were living in the same house, was locked in a bedroom. This is. Yeah. And now I see what you mean. Yeah. That's ******. Next level. Yeah. Keith. Bill. Danielle's imprisonment. It's a solution to her problem behaviour, Salzman testified. To this quote. Keith told me that she was stealing and that she had said she was going to lose weight and instead gained 40 pounds. Daniela would spend days at a time in the room, sitting against the wall trying not to scream. She would count days and pour through her memories just to try and stay sane. Salzman claims she helped Vanguard punish Daniela because she was convinced it would help her prove to him that she could be a good mother. We were incredibly abusive to Daniela. Everything she did was shot down. Nothing she could do was the right thing of all the things I did in this case. All the crimes that I admitted to, this was the worst thing I did. Which I think she's accurate about. Yeah. Yeah. So what's with this candor? Like, she's she she played. She pled guilty. Yeah, she pled guilty, I think to racketeering is what they got her on. Umm. So, you know, you would think she would be like, uh, I did what I had to do. But she's being so Frank. She is being Frank. And it, you know, it is entirely possible people do come to realizations that they did ****** ** things and feel legitimately bad about them. And maybe that happened in Salzman's case. Kind of sounds. I get the feeling with that with her more than I do with Allison. Mack we'll talk about more. Ohh, absolutely. But at the same time, it is important to remember Salzman was an integral part of Nexium leadership for a long time, right? Yeah, because she might feel some contrition. Doesn't mean it wasn't ****** **. Yeah, it it was very ****** **. Does seem very possible she feels some real contrition. I don't know the person. While Daniela seems to have gotten the very worst of Vanguard, every member of the DOS Women's Group, the so-called slaves were victims of Ranieri as well as in many cases, perpetrators in their own right. Members were expected to provide their mentors higher level slaves with collateral ranging from naked pictures of themselves to, in at least one case, a false confession of prostitution addressed to the slaves mother. That's a nice thing to make. Yeah. Yeah. He he they needed a collateral so that if these people, like, left the group or spoke about it to the press, you know, it would be released. That was the idea, to control them. Well, in a lot of cases it was naked photos. At least one woman said Keith had her right out of confession to like, working as a prostitute. That would be like sent to her mom if she. God, I think. I mean, you would never think that in the moment, but like stepping back. Those things seem not that. Powerful of blackmail because it's like once you escaped you would be like, that was blackmail I had to get out of a cult. Also, naked pictures is less of a this is one of the things that I think might get better about society after we get used to deep fakes. Like it's going to be a rough couple of years at the start, but eventually it's like, who cares if you've got her naked pictures like anyone? You can have anyone's naked pictures at any point. It takes 7 seconds to make the out real yeah, yeah, and not just pictures, video, not just pictures, videos. And maybe we all just stop. Maybe everyone just starts stops wearing clothing. Maybe we're just hanging out our genitals for the rest of time and feel like you're you're kind of proposing that I am. What I'm proposing is that the next set of presidential debates, everybody's naked. Oh my God, that would lay everybody's naked. Level the playing field so much. It would it would. Donald Trump would not have made it far. Absolutely not. Not. I mean, I don't know how people would have done a lot better. I believe that you got to see the guy's abs like a ******* cheese grater. Hey, I believe it. The poor guy, he probably works out these days, reads it at the gym. Mad game. He's got a lot of regret that he's working out at the gym. He's he's got a he's just listening to to Fort Minor and doing crunches for hours. I will say the idea of all these people naked is making me slightly nauseous. It should. It should. But it would be for the greater good of democracy. So we have to do it. Mm-hmm. And also, cops should always be naked. That would be crazy. Think of how different that world would be. I don't know. I feel like it would lead to maybe more sexual assault. It might. I feel like it would lead to less shootings, though, because less cops are going to pull people over because then they got embarrassed. Exactly. So yeah, I feel like you might get a net good out of that. But yeah, some more more sexual assault. You don't have to bring it. Yeah, maybe right now we shouldn't analyze this theory of mind. These are supposed to be the moments of levity. Yeah, these are the moments of levity on me. So this Dropbox folder of collateral was kept organized by Smallville actress Allison Mack. The slaves who sexually serviced Mr Ranieri were all put on extreme weight loss plans in order to make themselves into Vanguard's idea of a perfect woman. They started on 1000 calorie diets that were gradually restricted down to just 500 calories per day. It's nothing that's not enough to survive. Victims would be ordered to send photos of their meals to mentors and ask permission before being allowed to eat. But of course, Keith himself was not required to abide by his own rules for his slaves, according to the BBC. While he demanded the women around him remain excruciatingly thin, the vanguard reportedly ate pizza around the clock and cakes galore, picking out on potato chips and hot sauce flown in from his devotees around the world. Or why wouldn't he be able to eat stuff? Yeah, flown in. Oh my God. At least do some ******* crunches if you're gonna. Sorry, I don't wanna say that he should be more like Jeb Bush, but maybe he should be. He should. You know what? Jeb Bush, all things considered, nice guy, married to a Latina, speaks Spanish. Then again, a lot of people speak Spanish these days, so a lot of people speak Spanish these days. That's the big thing in presidency. Yeah, yeah, it'd be ******* awesome if Elizabeth Warren just dropped like a 10 minute speech in Dothraki at the next debate. Just like just like with it. And then like Cory Booker starts arguing and Klingon and it just like. The **** is happening? Yeah, like he gives her that sassy look that he gave to Beto, and then he starts speaking out. Yeah, **** yeah. Now, in our prior episodes, we talked about the branding routines also required for DOS members. They were pressured in large group settings to spend half an hour naked being filmed while a cauterizing pen was used to scar a stylized brand of Keith Raniere's initials into their pelvises. The court testimony revealed that victims were told the brand stood for the four Elements, Air, Earth, and water, and the pin represented fire. A recording was played in court. Keep discussing how to arrange the branding procedure with one of his high level followers. According to CNN, he asked at one point. Do you think the person who's being branded should be completely nude or sort of held to the table like a sort of almost like a sacrifice? That's cool. He had lost his mind. He had lost his *** **** mind. Yeah, I think he started out as a normal grifter but then became an insane person. It always like, you can't live that way and not lose your ******* skull, right? People worshipping you is a cancer. Hmm, I think that's true. As is power in general. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Salzman testified that branding victims were required to submit photos of themselves after the procedure, which Allison Mack dutifully added to their Dropbox files. The photo had to be fully frontal, naked, our brands had to show, and we had to look happy and U1 victim reported, according to The Daily Beast quote. If any slave displeased Ranieri, he would kick or whip them before threatening to release their collateral photos saved under a Dropbox named brands, according to God, and also testified on Monday that Ranieri. Plans to jail women in a dungeon as a form of punishment, he said. The jail cell was for people most committed to growth. They would get locked in a cage, she said on Monday. I was a slave with Keith as my master, salesman said, adding that she was forced to keep the role of Ranieri, who they had to call grandmaster a secret and the society demanded a lifetime of obedience to your master. This is the worst case scenario of 50 Shades of grey. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's there's like, I think it's hard to say. Maybe he got off. Any idea of torturing these women because the dungeon thing is like, he has to be on, off, on ohh you're this is, you're envisioning like a medieval dungeon. And that is, yeah, delighting you for most committed to growth? Yeah, yeah, that's crazy. That is ******* nuts. Wow. The group would meet three times a week in a sorority house, and whenever an area attended, the women had to strip naked, get on the floor, and look up to him while he delivered lectures on matters ranging from his vision for DOJ to write a book to recruitment to his intent to create a dungeon. Their slaves would totally surrender themselves. Cool stuff. Sounds like fun meetings. I can't imagine it going that far. I mean, that's how these things work. I just can't imagine being in the room when all of a sudden it's like we're all branded. Yeah, someone just got whipped and he's talking about the dungeon. He's about to build it. It's all these little steps that lead up to it, you know? Like, that's the thing. Like, that's how it happens. Yeah, how you get sucked up in a call. I think I'm probably involved in, like, 4 different. Almost cults. If I look around closely. You do whip a lot of people and I mean to talk to you about that. You yeah. You whip a lot of people. Do I carry one around with me? Yeah. Yeah. Like Hitler. Ohh, you're right. Yeah. Yeah. Ohh. No, I've gotta get rid of that. Yeah, you got you really gotta you gotta get with just one day a week. Take the whip out. Yeah. Yeah. No, I gotta give it to goodwill. Goodwill in LA has a really vibrant whip section. You know? They do. Oh yeah. That next to like, they're 5000 different forks. Yeah, yeah. Santa Monica goodwill. Yeah. Kitchen stuff and whips. Yeah. Another rainieri victim who took the stand is known in court documents as Jay. She took her first Nexium class on August 2016 and it was a five day intensive in Albany. Jay found this course helpful, so she got more involved with the cult. Before long. She wound up in DOS, forced to hand over collateral pictures along with sexy pictures of herself on the 1st of every month, which she described as being like rent for membership in the cult. Mark Agnew, Philio Ranieri's attorney, insisted that all of this, the mind games and punishments and collateral photos were part of Keith's self improvement program, he claimed. People signed up for it willingly. They were not there to go shopping. They are there to make their lives better. Hmm, yeah. Yeah, I guess if you want to convince people to do all these awful, awful things and have awful things done to them, you say it's for self growth. Yeah, I'm hey, classic grift. I'm doing the artist way right now. It's all about creative growth and self reflection and growth, and you're bringing up some of these buzzwords than I am uncomfortable about how much they resonate with me. There's certain phrases that are like shortcuts to a. Tricking people into taking extreme action. Umm. And it's why I worry about the use of of certain very specific words and growth is one of them. Really. Yeah. I've been using that word so much since I started reading the artists way. Yeah it's it's just today I've said it 16 times trying to pitch someone on the book. Yeah it I it just always like it doesn't mean don't listen to anything that like has that that phrase in and they're like talks about but like be really careful. When people start talking, it's attached to a lot of things because, like, that's you wonder, like, how all these women got into a point where they're letting someone brand them as, like, sacrificed victims. It was because, like, it it was all framed as growth. And, like, it didn't start there, but it started like, this period of, like, OK, growth means pain. Like, if you're gonna, you want to grow into a more fit, healthy person, you go to the gym, and that hurts and dieting hurts. And you want to build a career, you know, as a in Hollywood or whatever. And you have to make a lot of sacrifices. And those hurt and like, right, yeah. But you know that that's how all of these people get you. So just. Like it? It everyone's talking about growth. Every self-help plan isn't a cult, but be really ******* careful when you start wading into those waters. Yeah, there's sharks in there, exactly. Yeah. Cool. You know where there's not sharks? Products and service products and services, yes, not sharks. **** pills are what you're one of our sponsors now. *** **** pills. Ohh I'd heard. Yeah, wonderful stuff. And again, this is a free ad for them. You know, I don't know. It could be a Microsoft ad, could be coconut. We're just leading in with. I'm just very enthusiastic about **** Pills. They don't promise you. They do promise growth. But in a way that is very predictable. Right. Scientific. Scientific growth. Verifiable. Yeah. **** pools. That's great products. Not a scam. Not a scam. Yeah. 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Follow your podcasting dreams. Let's break your handle the hosting, creation, distribution, and monetization of your podcast. Go to spreaker.com. That's spreaker.com. Get paid to talk about the things you love. Spreaker from iheart. Hey y'all, this is Caroline Hobby, the host of get real with Caroline Hobby. Honest women, honest talk. I love podcasting. It is so much fun because I have the most in depth, spiritual, soulful, real, honest conversations with women who are mothers, who are entrepreneurs, who have started their own businesses, who are married to celebrities, who are celebrities themselves. These women are juggling motherhood, being a career woman, starting their own businesses, taking leaps, knowing when to. Jump these women are incredible and the conversations are so real it will hit every nerve in your body. As a woman, a little bit about myself, I was a country music artist and a trio. I traveled the country open for every celebrity you can imagine in country music. I also been on The Amazing Race twice, and I'm married to Michael Hobby, who is the lead singer of 1000 horses. And we have our precious daughter Sonny, who's too. Listen to new episodes of get Real with Caroline Hobby every Monday on the Nashville podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcast. We're back. We're talking about things that are, in fact, scams. So we were talking about Jay, who took the stage to talk about her time in Keith Raniere's cult. I'm going to quote from Forbes here. Her perspective changed after her Master invited her into a shared Dropbox account, where all the slaves in her group submitted nude photos of themselves and other compromising information each month. It got scary, Jay said, explaining how she would eventually realized that the photos could be used to blackmail her. Jay testified that she first considered. Allison Mack, a caring and good person who would help her with her acting career, but soon have found her to be emotionally abusive and addictive and manipulative. Novak seems to have been one of the key members of this group and was, like the one of the top level slaves. So she was a slave to Ranieri, but she was a master to all of these women, was responsible for keeping them in line. Right. So again, you know, Keith is abusing all these women, but he's also using them to abuse each other and sort of like this tiered system because he just doesn't have all the time to do that. Of course not. Yeah. Yeah. It's the Herbalife. Of sex cults. It's the Herbalife of sex cults. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Down lines and ****. Jay was eventually ordered to move from Los Angeles to a house near Albany. With Ranieri and his inner circle on the surface, it was so that Keith could help her launch AT shirt brand. Like, how delightful. But once she arrived, she found herself trapped in a weird sex cult of women who were all clearly being ordered to starve themselves. Jay noticed that many of them were losing their hair, so she joined them, sending in her weight to Ranieri each morning and restricting herself to the same 500 calorie diet. Wow, yeah. Jay testified that volleyball was Keith's very favorite sport, and in true narcissistic fashion, he required everyone to watch him play. DOS Members would dress in their best clothes and put on makeup to watch Keith play ******* volleyball against who? Against I? You know, I don't know. I guess whoever. Other people. There were men in the group too, so it was probably some of them. During breaks in the play, the women of DOS would line up so Ranieri could kiss them each on the lips and takes walks with them one-on-one to talk about their progress. Oh my God. Yeah, this is so weird. Hmm. Wow. So again, Allison Mack was the the person managing Jay and eventually told her that she had been tasked with seducing Keith Ranieri. She insisted this was an honor and a privilege. She was asked to seduce Keith until he took a naked photo of her and sent it to Allison Mack as proof. This seems to be what finally shook Jay out of her involvement in the cult. Everything was crumbling. It was my worst nightmare come to life that it would be a cult and someone would want to sleep with me, and that's what it was. Yeah, yeah. The somebody would want to sleep with me was sort of the fundamental part of when we were starving ourselves. I didn't know that was a cult. But yeah, there's, there's a *******. I guess everybody has that in a cult that like moment of like, oh **** this is a cult, right? Yeah, you're right. Yeah. And you know, everybody gets sucked into things. I I guess I can see if everyone around you is doing this stupid 500 calorie literally wasting away diet, the pressure, because I even feel it. God, I mean, I feel it. Wanna hang out with, like, skinny friends and stuff and they're like, I'm just gonna get a salad. Oh, I don't need dinner. I'm like, I feel like such a ******* cow ordering my fried whatever. Yeah, fried Pickles. Yeah, I feel that way anytime I go to a gym in Los Angeles or like everybody looks like they were poured into a ******* hole. Place to go to gym. It's heartbreaking. Literal fitness models. Go to the gym. Going to Oregon for gyms? Great. Going to a gym in Los Angeles where it's like nothing but fitness models and stuff. Worse, yeah. Oh my God, I I'm on a treadmill and both sides of me are beautiful, gorgeous, tall models. Yeah, that doesn't make me wanna keep going. Yeah, where there's there's guys just, like, casually bench pressing 300 pounds and like, look like they walked out of an Arnold Schwarzenegger movie. Like, look like somebody fights John Wick and they really. Yeah. Yeah. Who fights great. And then and and they probably do. Yeah. And they probably probably some of them literally fight John Wick. Yeah. Ohh, so Jay managed to escape the coat without ever actually completing her assignment to seduce Keith Ranieri on the stand. Ranieri's defense attorney clarified that Jade was only asked to seduce Keith, not sleep with him, because that makes it better. OK, OK, that's good defense to prosecution. You know what? Umm, I don't believe it. You don't believe that I don't buy it. Not buy it? I think it was. I mean, maybe he was like really into edging. Yeah, maybe he was really into edging. Yeah. I'll give it some water then, like, sure. Can you say that phrase like that holds water? I'll give it some water. Give it a little water. Let's see if it'll hold it. OK, now, there are many other horrific details. 131 year old woman who took the stand claimed that Ranieri blindfolded her, tied her up and made her lie. The cold table will another slave went down on her against her will. This woman claimed that she did not fight, obeying Allison Mack's order to be a good slave. This is the part where it's like lots of rape happens. Yeah, there there is definitely a lot of what happened. Yeah, that's sad. Salesman and Mac both eventually pled guilty to charges of racketeering conspiracy. Both seem to have turned against their guru. During her testimony, Salzman went into brutal detail about the things she and nearly forced people to do. She told stories of women forced to stand barefoot in the snow or locked in a cage. She admitting to forcing Valium on a slave who had what she described as a psychotic break. Which I'm going to guess was actually just a woman reacting totally reasonably to the ****** ** things Keith Ranieri was. Yeah, someone being like, finally. Ah, yeah, yeah. No, you did not medicate someone having a mental health issue. You drugged someone who realized they were put in a horrible position. Yeah. Or I mean, look, if I'm to believe her, fine. Then you drove someone to a mental break. To a mental break. Which is also possible. Yeah. After hearing all this, the Brooklyn jury tasked with deciding Vanguard's fate did not need a lot of time to make their decision. After 4 1/2 hours, they returned a four page verdict finding Ranieri. Guilty of all seven charges, according to the New York Times. Celebration ensued. Prosecutors on the case hugged and kissed cheeks. Former Nexium follower detail what a weird detail. Former Nexium followers who had later turned on their leader pushed into the hallway to continue the Jubilee. Mark Agnew Philio, one of Mr Ranieri's defense lawyers, later told news Media that when Mr Ranieri learned of the quick turnaround, he remarked that's not justice. Well. OK, yeah, that's it. That's feels this feels a little bit like justice to me. Yeah. Of course they were gonna walk away from that and. Yeah. Think he was guilty. Yeah. The details are so damning in a horrible and specific yeah. Like you. You can't make that **** up. No, no. And there's like phone conversations and text messages and like that. It's a Dropbox. There's a Dropbox full of evidence of people. Like a full of blackmail material. 2019 crime. Very 2019. There's they're using Dropbox for blackmail and social meeds cuts both ways. It can help you maintain your coat, but I just don't understand why you would use Dropbox when you could just use Google. Ohh Gmail you your Google Drive head. You know, I do have a Dropbox. I'm gonna, I'm gonna advise I'm not getting funded by Dropbox, but I'm gonna advise my listeners. If you start a sex cult and you need a place to keep your blackmail, Dropbox. Really? Yeah. Well, you it has that desktop yeah feature where you can use your desktop to move a file. So if you have a big nude photograph that takes a lot of space, you want that feature. You do want that feature. I convinced myself into using convince you for your sex cult. Yeah. For my sex cult. Yeah, absolutely. Mine won't be a bad one. It won't be like, no, it would be a good non consensual. Yeah, mine will be a good sex cult until the FDA starts firing grenades and right. Yeah, man. Why do you have to do to anger though? I I really wanna **** the FDA. I think you have to go around selling bootleg medicine. Are you comfortable? I feel like a lot of people do that in the FDA. Doesn't do anything that's true I? I it's gonna be hard to push him that far but I'm gonna try. I think you I think you could I think I could. Yeah, I just I wanna see what it looks like when they militarized that's the goal. That's the goal is to get the FDA shoot pills at you, yeah, or like certified meat products, yeah, that through the something like that. Yeah, I feel like if I really play. My cards right. I could get the FDA to assault. ATF headquarters and then like then I've won. OK. Yeah. Well, you know, so you told me earlier you wanted to run for president at some point. It sounds like after all this unfolds, is the time to run for President. Yeah. After I've, I've gotten the FDA to takedown the ATF. Yeah. Yeah, I think so. Because there's like a vacuum at that point. So much infighting. You just swoop right in. You'll have been in the Adirondacks for seven weeks. So you'll be strong. You'll be full of natural foods. Well, yeah. And I feel like like if I if I attack. The FDA, enough that I make them come after me. Like, there's a way to do that as like negging to where eventually they just like crave my approval. And then there's my crazy not like Keith right now. It's not ineffective. You just have to get it to a positive goal. Like turning the FDA into a second branch of the military. Gotta neg the right people. I need to improve my ability to neg the right people. We all do, and that's how I'm going to start. My cult is just teaching other people how to neg. It sounds like you're describing the game. It does. Yet I keep doing that. You're gonna be what's his name? Mystery. Yeah, and teach young virgin men how to neg women into bed. But in my case, it's gonna be how to neg the FDA into arming. Yeah, in charming, right? It's the same thing. It's the same. These are small semantic details. That's the story of Keith Ranieri. He's going to appeal, but I think there's probably a 95% chance ************ dies in a cell. He definitely will, which is great. **** him. What an interesting thing to have, I guess. Some semblance of a happy ending. To one of your stories it does seem like that. It seems like he got a thorough amount of. Obviously he was allowed to continue for too long and he really ****** ** a lot of people's lives. But like, as much justice as could be gotten after this point seems to have been gotten like. Hey, he's never going to get out of prison. Uh. His crimes have been exhaustively detailed. His victims have gotten their day in court, looking at him in the face and seeing him sentenced. That's is about as good as it gets in one of these cases. Yeah. Yeah. Is there any. I mean, I wonder, is there any? This seems too good to be true. Is there any aftermath, any followers of Nexium that are going out and spreading his good word? Well, the one kind of. Downside is that Q Anon has really embraced this because they have convinced themselves there's big ties between Keith Raineri and Hillary Clinton, which there aren't. There just aren't. It would be insane. Yeah. What? How would those connections even happen? And there's a bunch of people like, like a bunch of talk and Q and on boards about, like, the mainstream media is ignoring the Ranieri verdict. And it's like, no, dude. It's like the New York Times published a bunch of front page at The Daily Beast has covered it exhaustively. Like, people care to it. People. People care to a degree. We're doing a third episode on him, like, exactly. No, no one's covering this up. It just has nothing to do with global politics. So they think it's connected. But to the whole, all Democrats are pedophiles. Thing they were. Yeah, this. Yeah. There's one more reason that Democrats are pedophiles. Wow. That's picking and choosing which picking and choosing cult leaders you want to use as ammo. This is ****** ** enough without, like, pretending it's other things. You spend a lot of time on those message question that way. Too much time on those messages. Is it chilling? Yeah. It's unsettling because I I read your tweets where you talk about like, just so you guys know you know what's going on in 8 Chan and I definitely don't cause 8 Chan. So 4 Chan is here. Right after Reddit and then 8 Chan is even insane? Or do you have to, like, prove yourself to get on 8 Chan? No. Anyone can view it like it's one of those things. If you start posting there and you haven't looked for a long time, they'll they'll pick you out and they'll be like, get out of here. They'll make fun of you and tell you to lurk more like it's it's one of those things where it's like, it's essentially the same thing. It's like a foreign language, like if you're if you walk, like if you're Beto O'Rourke and you start talking in Spanish in a debate, people will know, like, OK, this isn't a guy who grew up speaking Spanish exactly. It's like that. Like, like. With with these lingos. But the 8 Chan chunks that talk about Q Anon are a lot different because their goal is to get a lot of like older people in boomers and stuff to like, keep posting and like draw them in further and further. So they actually have a lot of conversations about like how to welcome older people who are getting like sucked into Q Anon and stuff. So like, yeah, it's weird. You've got like these chunks of 8 Chan that are like literal Neo Nazis who are so online that it's broken their brains, and then you've got like grandmas like pouring over Q drops and stuff. It's really everything. We're getting pulled in more and more. Yeah. And those people believe that Keith Ranieri is a front of the Democratic Party. Are you just a lurker? Yeah, I just lurk. I don't post. Right. Because what would you post? Why would I even draw attention? Yeah, there's nothing to gain from it, right? Yeah. And do you think, I know this is a little off topic, but do you think that this is a growing problem, though? For sure. It's like, I mean, they've killed, like getting more and more. 52 people have been killed this year and that. Gets fostered on the boards. Yeah. I mean the Christchurch shooting in the Poway shooting in the in the poll boards and you know Q Anon there's been A2 shootings and two murders in the last year. So yeah wow. So I guess 54 dead. You could try it tighter. The I feel like you're like a soldier in the. Message board army. Oh, it's a really dumb war if that's the case. Going out and doing really, really stupid war. Ohh boy. But real. No, I want now. Just really dumb and frustrating. Yeah, I don't. I don't know how you have the patience for it. I can't even, like, go to Breitbart and, yeah, remain sane. No, you know, we all pick our own private health. Keith Ranieri's picked his private hell, I've. Like mine. And it's it's browsing 8 Chan until the FDA finally comes for me and you've picked improv. And what a private hell, what a private health actually check out right now. It's a very public how were you throw yourself in front of me? Yeah, my suffering is both private and public, unfortunately. Well, Anna, this is the end of our episode. Do you have any plug cables to plug at the end of this little journey we take? And yeah, check me out on Instagram. My comic bad. Comics with an X by Anna with two ends. Same handle on Twitter. Uh, yeah, and I perform at UCB, which is upright citizens brigade here in LA. Mildly a cult, but also funny shows. So you can look at my, I don't know, profile or I post about shows. Come to one. You can find me on a TIOK on Twitter, which is a little bit of a cult. If you want to help me in my quest to arm the FDA and get them to take down the ATF, you know, maybe, maybe. Hit me up there. You are starting a cult. Right now that is the goal. Yeah, yeah, I've committed now. Yeah, **** it. You know, and for a penny in for a pound, I'm crossing that Rubicon. They're not all bad, but fly the dice. They can be good, good, cold, positive coat with the goal of getting tanks for the FDA. OK, yeah, you can find us on the Internet behindthebastards.com. We will have the sources for this episode. You can also find us on the Grahams and the twits at at ******** pod that you can buy. T-shirts, cups, stickers and maybe other products that will. Help me in my goals. If you looked enough about the FDA thing. So I'm just not going to. I'm just going to let that let that thread drop. Yeah, I I'm drinking coffee out of a behind the ******** mug. It's good. Fortifies it. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I feel smarter. Just there's a lot of vitamins in that. I probably can't lie about that, but the FDA will come after me. Vitamins are in the mugs. Drink the mugs. Get vitamins and iron skillet. I will say these mugs will cure your diseases. Wow. Yep. This episode's gonna get pulled. Come at me, mother. Walkers. Alright, episodes over. Hello, I'm Erica Kelly from the podcast Southern Fried True crime and if you want to go from podcast fan to podcast host, do what I did and check out spreaker from iheart. I was working in accounting and hating it. Then after just 18 months of podcasting with Speaker, I was able to quit my day job. Follow your podcasting dreams, let's break your handle the hosting, creation, distribution, and monetization of your podcast. Go to spreaker.com. That's spreaker.com. Hey there, it's Ebony Monet, your co-host for the San Diego Zoo's Amazing Wildlife podcast. In this special episode, we're speaking with Doctor Jane Goodall about the fascinating journey that led to her impactful behavioural discoveries on chimpanzees. It wasn't until one of the chimpanzees began to lose his fear of me, but I began to really make discoveries that actually shook the scientific world. Listen to amazing wildlife on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Sisters of the Underground is a podcast about fearless Dominican women who stood up against the brutal dictator Kapal Trujillo. He needs to be stopped. We've been silent and complacent for far too long. I am Daniel Ramirez, and as a Dominicana myself, I am proud to be narrating this true story that is often left out of the history books through your has blood on his hands. Listen to sisters of the underground wherever you get your podcasts.