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Go with the Cooper's. Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode of the week that just happened is here in one convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to listen to in a long stretch if you want. If you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, there's going to be nothing new here for you, but you can make your own decisions. So look, I ain't going to hold you. I was not going to cover this because I feel like there's something that needs to be discussed at the domino table to cook out. And I just don't want to feed the machine. But at some point we got to decide who's man is this. And somebody got come get the boy ye. We got to decide, okay, when did he cross the line, y'all, and has he crossed the line? Because the important nuance of this is how we've survived is collective. Slaves like the, we needed each other to survive. So when somebody got out of line, we looked out for each other. I don't know if you know this, but Corn Rose, like the braids inside of people's hair, were maps. The Negro spirituals, you sang songs as code for when it was time to go. And then I got to go back and get as many people as I can. Like this is, this is our story. We take care of each other. So that's why it's hard for us to just write people off to just can't. So especially if they black. It's hard for us because it's like we need to take care of each other. We can't let these white people like tell us what to do with our folks. But that being said, at some point we like, all right, nigga, you are on your own. You have hurt us too much. And I never, so I didn't want to come. And I never, so I didn't want to cover you because I still don't know how I feel. There are some statements that he said are obviously inexcusable. But I just didn't want to be a part of that. I want to be a part of that conversation. The Kanye stands and I'm done with you. I just don't want to be a part of conversation. But Sophie hit me and the good folks that it can happen here, here. And was like, yo, we had talked about this. And I was like, all right, I was on the fence. We need to talk about it. Y'all, who's man's is this? Y'all, some I can't get that boy. So it's a crossover with the homie Garrison, Robert, and it could happen here, team, Cherine. And we discussed this stuff. So dropping into our feed and a feed, it could happen here. So politics, let's rock. I'm just waiting for Kanye's nostic phase. That'll probably be a good development. I mean, as soon as it starts being... It starts talking about Sophia and... I'm excited for when he runs for president and then declares his opponent to be a debut. The demi-erge. That's gonna be great. That's gonna be great. We're on the same track there. We know what's coming. We know. It's gonna be a good day. Welcome to a good half and here in the podcast. Where we talk about Kanye West's inevitable war against the demi-erge. Yes. Join again by Cherine and prop. So we just talked about Kanye West history up towards his most recent White Lives Matter 30 Shirt Stunt and his anti-Semitic posts on Instagram and Twitter.com. My main interest in the aftermath of these statements is mostly how right-wing media reacted to what was going on and to one of their darlings saying some questionable things. What that might tell us about how they'll handle overt anti-Semitism and fascistic consumerism in the future. I'm gonna do a quote from New Republic again about what happened in the direct aftermath of Kanye West's posts. Quote, Fox News, meanwhile, posted an article that West merely had been locked out of his account due to an unspecific violation of the company's policies. After spending such a wholesome number of hours providing him with a platform for his White Lives Matter stunt, the network, a shoot coverage of anti-Semitism other than to point to it as the product of mental illness. The effort to sweep the second round of nasty bigotry under the rug after celebrating the initial outpouring is breathtakingly cynical, but not particularly surprising. The fact that West was, at least for now, de-platformed from social media accounts that he was using to traffic hate speech is in itself catnip for far-right figures. And so, unquote. So many of Far-right Grifter has tried to turn this into a free speech issue. And however, Kanye associate and fashion week White Lives Matter buddy Candace Owens tried to deny the anti-Semitism altogether. Within days of his Twitter rant, Candace Owens on her daily wire podcast was defending Kanye, saying, quote, death, con three should be interpreted as a move to protect the Jewish people. That's right, because because because death con is a defensive military category, not an offensive military category. See, these are the words of a deeply unseurious person. Exactly. Exactly. A very dangerous one, but deeply unseurious. This is, it's those things, okay, be conservative. Think however you want. But it's that stuff that is so infuriating to me where I'm like, you know, you do not sit across the table for me. She knows. You know, and it's like, okay, just, I just like break character once. You know, just like, no, what is you, like there's no way I can't take you, there's no way you believe that. No, there's no way. Yeah. Canis Allen has been playing the long game for a while, and that kind of reaches a culmination towards the end of this episode, which we'll talk about. But let's, let's, let's play the clip there, because she also does some pretty gross anti-Semitic kind of defensive stuff as well, talking about how you can't see the word Jewish without people getting upset. If you are an honest person, you did not think this tweet was anti-Semitic. You did not think that he wrote this tweet because he hates or wants to genocide Jewish people. This is not reprieved at the beginning of the Holocaust. That's if you're an honest person, you'll meet that. You won't admit that, right? If you're an honest person, when you read this tweet, you had no idea what the hell he was talking about. I had, I had no idea when I read this tweet what the hell he was talking about. This tweet inspired questions, not answers. First and foremost, what is death con three? Did he mean death con three, which would be a military defense position, not an offense for those of you that are offended? A military defense position? Is he tweeting this because he's reading the newsweek headline, calling him an anti-Semitic, is he angry because he can't believe that he's not free to talk about people in his life who happen to be Jewish, right? Without being accused of anti-Semitism, is he saying, I'm not going to shut up and I'm going to keep tweeting and I'm going to keep calling these people out, referring to his friends that he feels slided by. Are you talking about Jerry Kushner and Josh Kushner? If you're a liar, you'll say, I know I was scared, Kenneth. I actually thought that Kanye West was going to launch a military strike in Israel because that's the reaction, like when I woke up and I looked at the headlines, the reaction was like Kanye West had gotten together a military strike and it was going to go forward in the morning time in Israel. That was the reaction that was met with the suite. Now once again, I want to make this very clear. This is not a defensive suite. This is an open question which never seems to happen anymore. It's like you cannot even say the word Jewish without people getting upset in the same way that you're not allowed to say black anymore. So there is definitely a lot in that clip. I guess first off, we can talk about talking about the tweet as simply asking questions about Jewish people. It's like you're just like directly doing the Jewish question. Like what? That's the thing. You can't frame this. Just ask, you're just asking questions about Jewish people really and then Owen's tries to link this to a Zionist position implying that attacks on Jewish people and anti-Semitism are only legitimate if they're in the form of a military action against the nation of Israel, which is not how anti-Semitism operates. That's just not what that is. Like that's just, it's pretty gross again. It's the same daily wire racism denying stick by, you know, it's the same thing they do by saying racism doesn't exist anymore because they're not racist laws in America. Which, first of all, isn't even true. But second of all, that's not what racism is. Like even if there weren't racist laws, that doesn't mean there's no racism. She like the... Man, it's like, I'm trying to put my words together because there's a certain type of like sinisterness. Yeah, no. It's a type of... Absolutely. They're both deeply unserious. But it's also like explicitly complicit in the rise of far right Christian fascism. Like it's so absurd, but in a very dark way. Like it's... Yeah. I heard Kanye this morning, this is what day is this? October, October 20th. A clip from Pierce Morgan, no less. Like trying to call him on his anti-Semitism. And yeah, just like... I know what time I can. But it's like, it's in the same vein of like, Aino Way you believe is, is in that he was like, listen, I apologize. I was talking about my experience in the music industry, which is a verifiable fact ran by Jews. And I was like... Nah, you can't. But Aino Way. Aino Way. And just... Like, I think Jones broke character before. Was Tucker Carlson broke character? Tucker Carlson, of course, was like, this is entertainment. Don't take me serious. You know, just like, let me head at a moment where I'm like, okay, at least be honest with what I'm dealing with here. Just break character. Like, just give me that. At least I know what I'm dealing with. No, yeah. Like saying, this is an open question. You cannot say the word Jewish that people are getting upset. Like, you know what you're doing. You know exactly what you're doing. And with the... After the death comm, three tweets has followed up implying that Jewish people invented cancer culture. Like Robert said, directly, reference, that is just directly ripped from like Nazi theory. Like it's so blatant. Like, even Canis Owens' boss, Ben Shapiro, had to acknowledge that Kanye's tweets were antisemitic. He made a tweet saying, back from the Jewish holiday now, which don't, Ben Shapiro, I know what you're doing. I know what you're calling it the Jewish holiday. Fuck you. Back from the Jewish holiday now, as usual, two things can be true at once. Kanye's moves towards pro life, faith, and family conservatism are encouraging. His death comm, three posts and black Hebrew is a language are clearly antisemitic and disturbing. It's like Ben Shapiro. Like, this is, this is, this is, this is basically Ben Shapiro saying, the more he agrees with me, the more he becomes a Nazi. But I'm sure this is just a coincidence. Which I did steal from, I did steal that from someone on Twitter. Well, thanks, that'd be true. That's why Ben Shapiro impression. That's it. Well, thanks, that'd be true. Look, look, both things can be, let's say that you, all right. I'm going to do, I'm going to do a brief tangent on this guy named Jason Widlock. So Widlock is a sports journalist and podcaster who hosts the show Fearless Soldiers on Glen Blech's Blaze Media, where he quote, protects the realm of common sense and challenges the group thing commanded by elites. And he has like over half a million followers on Twitter. He made a series of not great statements that are still up and went extremely viral with a lot of likes. Saying quote, Kanye West and Dave Chappelle, is there a pattern? The industry wants both of them canceled. Black rappers and comedians are free to denigrate black people and white men a million different ways. But there's a line they better not cross and everyone knows it. I wonder, I wonder what he's saying. I wonder what he's implying there. The conflation of this is actually also as person of member of the black community, card carrying that is frustrating. And that we do need to talk about, you know, among ourselves, like what is acceptable in terms of how we speak about our own women, how we speak about, you know, our fellow brothers and sisters in the world. There is something that needs to be discussed, but you don't get to call that. You know, Jason, Jason is black, but he similarly works for a far right media company. Here's the thing. I'm going to give you a phrase and you can use this later. Okay. I'm pretty sure Shereen knows it too. It's all scam folk and can't folk. So just go ahead and continue on. And what he's talking about here saying that there's, there's a, you're, you're free to, you know, talk about, you know, bad things, the black people and what people have done. The, the line that you better not cross, he's, he's obviously talking about Jewish people. Yeah. Someone, someone asked him, hey, what's, what is this line? And then Jason posted, you can't question black entertainers unhealthy relationship with non-religious Jewish power brokers in Hollywood. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And he, this, this was obviously called out as being extremely anti-Semitic, which then he replied, you think I have a problem with people who speak a Semitic language? Not true. I have a problem with the secular culture, particularly Hollywood's promotion of it and black celebrities embrace of it. I believe those celebs have an unhealthy partnership with non-religious Jewish people. Oh, he chose the words. That was a dance. But this is, this is just exact, you're just doing anti-Semitism. Like you can't, you can't, like it's not about speaking a Semitic language and you know that. Like you know this, the, you're, you're, you're just doing a bit like this. Yes. And here's what's crazy. Like, you know, in, in my early days of like moving into more like, activists kind of justice circles. And, and for real, like even in some of the like church spaces I was in, because again, I grew up in like a very different church tradition than the rest of these foods is that the Jewish community was in a lot of ways upheld as an example for us. In that like, look, they don't let nobody talk about nobody. They don't let, they don't let it ride. You not allowed to talk. And they were like, we need to be like that. They were like the way that, the way that like, look, they come in, they set up their community. They, they, they keep their money within their community. Like their dollar circulate around that. And when you look at like statistics, they was saying among the black community, it's like a dollar, you know, a dollar only circulates once to our community. You know what I'm saying? Like I don't have a numbers right, but they were saying like within the Jewish community, that dollar goes around like 50, 60, 70, 80 times because they support each other. You know, and they were like, that's something that as black people, we need to start learning how to do like, yo stop being crabs in the bucket. Like support each other. You know what I'm saying? Learn from their community, you know? Learn from the fact that like, you know, they keep their narrative alive. They don't allow oppression to happen to them. They, they stuck together how they've accrued wealth. You know, I'm saying, I don't know how healthy this understanding is, but I'm saying that's what we saw. Like, look at how they accrued wealth. Like learn from them. You know, so, so when it, when, when you hear it coming out of a black entertainer's mouth, something anti-subm, it just, it grates even more because you just like, man, what? Like, I think one other aspect of that, which we're actually going to get to in a bit is some of that kind of admiration can be a double-edged sword though. It is. That's what I was saying. Like, I don't know how healthy it is, but that's what we were taught. Yeah, but like, like, like what you said about like, they're, you know, how a dollar circulates way more. You see Kanye later starting to use some of that rhetoric in terms of promoting Jewish people as like, controllers of financial engineering. Like you see that type of, you see that bridge. We're going to talk about that just like in a sec. Also quick piece of history about Jewish, Jewish people in banking, which it's ill, like, they as a people got into that. They were basically forced into it. They were forced to because they weren't allowed farmland. Yeah. Like, you wouldn't allowed to farm. So they're like, well, we got to find a job somehow. Oh, let's do banking. You mad that they good at it? Like, you know, I mean, I mean, like this, this part that's like real a can. I'm like, you know why you know why jazz exists segregation, naked racism. That's why blues, why is there hip hop? Because sub sec like we did something with the trash you gave us. Like, so I think that yeah, anyway, segregation made that happen. Yeah. I'm going to read a quote from Yarra Rosenberg quote, Conga's tweets exemplify why anti-semitism is so hard to uproot. It's a self-affirming conspiracy theory. The anti-semit claims that Jews control everything. Then if they're penalized for their bigotry, they point to that as proof. Heads they win tails, Jews lose. Kanye posted his second tweet before the first rule was taken down, perfectly demonstrating how the Jews control everything is a preemptive anti-semitic defense against consequences for expressing anti-semitism. It's a common misconception that anti-semitism is just a personal prejudice against Jewish people. It's not. It's a conspiracy theory about how the entire world works, which is why it roaps in conspiracy theorists from all ideologies and all backgrounds. It creates this antagonizing catch-22 for Jews when confronted with anti-semitism. If we say nothing, the hatred spreads unchecked. If we say something and it results in any consequences for the anti-semit, the bigot just uses that as proof of their anti-semitic worldview. That's a good one-on-one explainer on how this whole thing operates. Talking about Jewish power brokers in Hollywood and people called out on that. They're like, oh, see? This is an example of them trying to silence the truth and all of this type of shit. The one super interesting thing that has happened since all of these tweets and the aftermath of it has happened is that we got some leaked video from the Tucker Carlson and Kahn gave video. This is fascinating. Vice's motherboard obtained footage of Kanye making bigot of statements about Jewish people and bizarre claims about fake children as well as describing visions of kinetic energy cities sent to him by God. We're not sure how Vice got these unaired clips, but we have them and they're extremely fascinating both on for what Kanye is doing and how he made these statements before his tweets. Also, it's interesting on what Tucker is doing. They're explicitly obfuscating direct anti-semitism but still allowing the dog whistles to be present. Inside their interview that did air, Carlson and Kanye together outlined some of Fox's favorite boogeymen from the Clintons, COVID restrictions, cancel culture and liberal elites. But what Fox left on the cutting room floor is just as revealing. The Tucker Carlson tonight's team decided to edit out a clip of Kanye saying that he's vaccinated against COVID-19, which is, you know, okay. Yeah. In a segment talking about Black genocide and planned parenthood, they edited out Kanye's statements about the lost 12 tribes of Judah. Plan parenthood was made by Margaret Sanger, a known eugenics with the KKK to control the Jew population. When I say Jew, I mean the 12 lost tribes of Judah, the blood of Christ, who the race, the people known as the race Black, Billy R. This is who our people are, the blood of Christ. This as a Christian is my belief. So inside the television broadcast, it has, it has those parts about planned parenthood and the KKK. But then after he mentions the KKK, it cuts 30 seconds ahead. So it skips over all that stuff around Jews and the lost 12 tribes of Judah, which kind of get that is, that is some of the type of black Hebrew, Israel stuff that Robert and Prop were talking about in the previous episode, how they're one of like the lost tribes who went south. So that is, that's, but it's interesting. So like, he's directly talking about that way before his tweets that Tucker just completely ended it out. Now on the on the planned parenthood point, so Sanger was indeed a racist and eugenicist, a stance that the planned parenthood organization has since like obviously denounced. But you know claims about planned parenthood specifically operating to kill unborn Black babies are just common rhetoric in the pro-life like circles and conspiracy spaces. It's not that that part is not really true, but it is a very common talking point. Yeah, that Margaret Sanger point is something that like, yeah, you know, even I like in my sort of, you know, evolution of the way I think and feel and believe, you know, I'm the child of a Black Panther, you know what I'm saying? So like when you, you, you hear things about eugenics and Margaret Sanger in a connection of planned hair, but then you like, oh, well, yeah, not, that stuff's evil, you know what I mean? Yeah. But you know, obviously I, I'm a, I'm a cisgendered male, you know, so there's definitely a holes in the story of understanding the complications of what it means, what abortion and reproductive rights mean because I just, I didn't know, you know, and, but as you, you know, grow mature, travel for me like the, the, the, the biggest, the biggest change in my thinking has been travel and relationships and just, you know, what I should say, reading off the naughty list, you know, and you start understanding those complications. But yeah, that was like that, that Margaret Sanger note is a note that's hit often, you know, and it becomes very difficult until you're like, until you, until you end the situation. You don't know me. And like, you are like, look, this is, this is, this is affordable healthcare. And it's right down the street, you know, and when you're in that situation, it's like, the, again, like all the boogie man's and all the stories and all the warnings, all of it falls apart, you know, once you actually see this stuff in practice. So yeah, that, but that, that Margaret Sanger, well, that's a tough pill to swallow. Yeah. And the Planned Parenthood Organization has spent a long time trying, trying to amend for their, for their like an initial inclination and some of the, like, eugenicist starting points that they had at making sure that they're not, they're not, you know, yeah, continuing in that clearly that's not their stance. In that history. Oh, yeah. And like, actually, addressing like, hey, is, is, is, is locations of our clinics specifically geared towards like being in more targeted communities where it's like lower class than people of color as opposed to white affluent communities. And they have, they have taken steps to actually like make sure that they're planning of clinics and locations is not, is not oversaturated in, yeah. And that being said, I'm like affluent white communities, they got healthcare. So it's like, absolutely. Absolutely. You know what I'm saying? It's like, you go, go where is needed. I'm like, I ain't got no healthcare over here. That's why they're here. You know, I mean, this isn't, obviously, this isn't a Planned Parenthood stand video or podcast, but at the same time, I'm like, well, of course they got their problems like every other organization got their problems. Like the idea that there's this like sinister plot, you know, is clearly the rantings of someone who is not well. Yeah. It does, it does, it is parenting just conspiracy talking points at this point, though, the way, the way that he does it. The way he's doing. And in one of the more blatantly anti-semitic sections that was edited out, Kanye complains about Kwanza being taught to his kids in school and and says that he would prefer his kids to learn Hanukkah because it comes with financial engineering. I was biting my tongue on my political opinion because I thought it would be better for my children. And now you look up and my kids are going to a school that teaches black kids a complicated Kwanza. I prefer my kids new Hanukkah than Kwanza. At least it will come with some financial engineering. I'm sorry, wait, wait, wait. I mean, this is this type of thing like you should learn from the Jews because they're good at controlling money. Oh, yeah. It makes me feel like he purposely tweeted that stuff because it was cut out. Like because like maybe he was authoring his idea of being called. I mean, I think I think he tweeted that stuff out. He tweeted that he tweeted this on Twitter in response to him getting banned on Instagram. And this stuff on Instagram was directly against a rapper who was calling him out on his shit. Yeah. I don't know if Kanye watched the Tucker Carlson interview. I don't know. And then in one of the more bizarre things that he said, Kanye West talked about a so-called fake child that had been planted in his home, including he went into explicit detail talking about the child's name and the parents name. And this video clip was not posted to protect the family's privacy. Yes. But he went into great detail. We have some like transcripts saying actors, professional actors placed into my house to sexualize my kids. Yep. He referred to the so-called son of an associate seemingly implying that the child was fake saying that we did not believe that the person was her son because he was way smarter than her. And it's the, this is like the most clear example of the rambling to someone who like isn't okay. Yeah. This is someone having a mental health episode. Yeah. Like Kanye has spoken frequently about living with bipolar disorder and experiencing manic episodes. In 2019, he discussed how experiences these with David Letterman saying, quote, when you're in this state, you're hyper-apparently about everything and everyone. In my experience, other people had different experiences, you know, everyone is now an actor, everything's now a conspiracy. Yeah. And this is what's happening. You're thinking everyone's an actor and everyone's conspiracy. This is really, I mean, you can look at gang stalking, which is probably an expression of people having schizophrenia episodes where people believe that like crowds of just random folks on the street are like part of an organized stalking thing or just there's these one kind of common thing that happens in psychotic episodes for some people is a belief that their loved ones, their spouse or whatever has been replaced by someone who looks exactly the same. There's also some kinds of like damage. We call that Nathan Fielderson from. Yeah. It's rehearsal. I was going to say that, but I didn't want to drag him into this. No, no, no. He's beautiful. He's a beautiful rehearsal episode. Yeah. I mean, it's one of those, this is, I don't know how you actually would ever study this, but I think one of the major problems our civilization has that might actually induce is the fact that every mental illness on the planet is vastly exacerbated by the person having a lot of money, which also happens to make it virtually impossible to treat because you went around you will admit that anything's wrong. Yeah. And this again, might someday combine with the fact that we have an addiction on this planet to handing a single individual the keys to a nuclear stockpile. This might all end in really badly for everybody. I mean, yeah. And when you're one of those famous people in the world, you constantly feel like you're being gangstacked because you are. Yes. Yeah. That's the point I was going to be. That's the point I was going to be. That's the point I was going to be watching you. Like it's not, humans weren't designed to reach that level of fame. That's not something that we developed. That's, that's, that should not be possible. Our brains are not equipped for it. Yeah. Yeah. Like it's like, they get affirmed in that belief because a lot of people do rely on them and maybe they're mania to like make sure they get paid or make sure like they're family to get paid. Oh absolutely. I mean, I'm not affirmed. Yeah. You're being, you know, I like, I have a, a small list of like actual like a lists like celebrity friends who have been, you know, who are like for real celebrities and also like, yeah, my, my last accountant stole $200,000 from me like and I didn't even know, you know, this person, you know, I had this person on tour with me and, you know, they robbed this guy, robbed the opener like just all these like stories to where you're like, well, yeah, the people you do have around you. So even if you didn't have mental health issues, you would get paranoid. You would still get paranoid. Yeah. It's reasonable to get paranoid. Yeah. Yeah. It's, I, yeah, all of it's, all of this is, is very obvious as a problem. Yeah. But what's unsettling to me, sorry, I just want to say really quickly, one of the things that the fact that Kanye, as you, you pointed out years earlier, very astutely talked about the things that happened to him when he is having an episode in a very lucid way. Yeah. I mean, I can totally see Kanda someone's doing that because that, because she's, she's been playing him like a fiddle for a long time and that's going to, that's going to reach a tipping point at the end, at the end, at the end of the episode. So yeah. One, one, one could ask, how could you be so heartless? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my God. How could you be so? So it wasn't as good as the last one. It wasn't. How could you be so after evil? I didn't get that one. I think it's like along the same thread of a tortured artist thinking they have to be depressed. Yes. Yes. To make art. I think there's an element of that even for Kanye. Like I don't think, I mean, I think he knows if he's medicated or not. You know what I mean? Well, he is, he is said that sometimes he goes off medication. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah, the tortured artist thing, I know some like New York Times best sellers authors who are like, yes, I know I'm bipolar and I know when I have to write this book, I'm going to get off these pills. I'm going to write it in two days. I'm going to turn in. It's hard for a common person to admit. Exactly. That's made worse by people like tying, like people in doing my research for this episode, a lot of people talk to West in person and like talk about like his genius. Exactly. And this idea of his genius mixed in with his mental state can create a really volatile reaction, someone's brain when they feel like certain altered states of consciousness are what makes you have your genius. Exactly. And that's really on the way people have talked about this to Kanye in person. I think it's really unhealthy. Yeah. I would argue that telling a child they're a genius is abusive and it's probably true for telling an adult. It's one of the worst things you can ever tell anybody. No one's a genius. Stop using that word. Yeah. It's poison. You think your illness is your genius in the way that I mean. Going back to these leaked unused Tucker Carlson videos, something like this in a better world would like completely tank Tucker forever. Yeah, it should. But none of that matter. Yeah. Because in any other, yeah, in any other universe at that point, you should be like, yo, we got to stop the cameras, man. No, yeah. Yeah, this leak reveals unequivocally how Carlson uses his platform to sanitize anti-semitism and other conspiracy theories for a general audience. Carlson cuts out just enough to claim plausible deniability. This will not impact him professionally at all. He makes a living, manipulating people on Fox News. This should tank him. It won't, but it does reveal how he works with extreme clarity, having these behind the scenes glimpses. And then also having the added context of these cut segments also shines a light on some of the more dogwistly aspects that did make it into the aired interview, like this bit that started with Kanye talking about his grievances with Jared Kushner. You know, we made these peace treaties. Where was that? Do you know the facts on this right here? So I'm like, well, I think that was treating Israel and some of the Arab nations. I just think it was to make money. I don't know. Is that too heavy-handed to put in this platform? No, that's your opinion. We're not in a censorship business. Okay. Thank you. And I just think that that's what they're about is making money. I don't think that they have the ability to make anything on their own. I think they're born into money. So when Kanye said, I don't think they have the ability to make anything on their own and talking about, you know, peace treaties with the intent to make money. Carlson knew that Kanye was just talking about like the Jews. Like that's like, he knew that's what was going on and decided to keep those dogwistly aspects. It's, yeah. I'm going to quote from Elad Neorai. This provides uncontrovertible proof that Carlson knew Kanye was being anti-Semitic during the interview. In other words, Tucker Carlson and his team purposely edited their footage to make Kanye's comments into a dog whistle instead of a fog horn. He purposely coded Kanye's anti-Semitism. Carlson knows how to spread anti-Semitism while avoid getting called out. He did it here. This itself should be a far bigger scandal than anything Kanye has said. Carlson knowingly spread this code anti-Semitism and knowingly kept the anti-Semitism that he knew he wouldn't get called out on and knowingly cut the part that he knew would get him in trouble. Carlson has spent years spreading anti-Semitic conspiracy theories from a full documentary about George Soros destroying Western civilization to multiple uses of the great replacement of conspiracy theory to anti-Semitic guests talking about globalist elites ruling in DC. This is who Tucker Carlson is. America's leading purveyor of mainstream anti-Semitism. He also showed everybody the ultra light beam to the genitals. Well, that's what he did. He did one of good things. One of his more based moments. That was pretty, that was the thing. I was like, all right, man. Okay. You know, the genital tanning. Got it. But yeah, that's his particular mutant power is saying something without saying something. And all of us know what you're saying, but you ain't say it. So when I go, what the fuck did you just say? You could say, what are you talking about? Nothing. You know, I mean, he's got it. I mean, he's the Picasso or that. And it's so infuriating. And speaking of kind of dog whistles and stuff, similar to Kanye's bit about the Jews creating cancel culture, by doing the whole, I don't think they have the ability to make anything on their own statement. Kanye is implying another kind of classic anti-Semitic trope that originates with Nazi propaganda. But you know, Jews are incapable of physical labor or making things. This comes up a lot in the 1940 Nazi propaganda film The Eternal Jew, one of the most vile films ever made, a quote from Mike Rothschild. So now I don't think Kanye is not seeing The Eternal Jew. Obviously. No, the only people, most weird Nazi nerds who reference The Eternal Jew haven't seen The Eternal Jew. But the point is that you don't need to see it. These stereotypes are so ingrained to how many people see Jewish people that there are just things that you can believe without the slightest consideration or like a deep thought. Well, and they were, you know, The Eternal Jew was influential in anti-Semitic propaganda. But a lot of what it was doing was kind of codifying almost if you will the most popular stereotypes and racialist attacks of the day, like it didn't invent stuff so much as it was like, all right, we're going to boil it all down in kind of the most iconic form. Yeah, this is how's today years old. I had no idea what you saw him up. But I can see how that concept has such source material because as somebody who, you know, anti-Semitism has never been on the menu for me. Some of the tropes that come with that in my mind seem so bizarre. I'm like, what are you talking about? What did that come from? What did you talk about? They did. What now? You know, so like, so to know that like, well, there is source material. There's stuff that comes from it. It comes from this time. It was because it is. This was like an intentional thing that people have been pushing towards for hundreds of years. Like, this didn't just happen. This is like, people are trying to make this a reality. Like it's, it's been a propaganda project and a hate campaign that's been genocidal for hundreds of years. Yeah, because I'm like, okay, you know, at sometimes, okay, I'm trying to say what up. I say sometimes the puke can track. Yeah, like the protocols, like the protocols. I was like, until you understand those protocols, like some of the anti-Semitic thought and rhetoric is like, man, what the fuck are you talking about? Like, what, you know, texts like that don't just like pop into existence. Someone wrote that with a specific intent. It was an intent for something. But what I'm trying to get at is like, there are some racist sentiments and tropes that I'm following your logic as to why you're saying that about them. Like clearly it's a racist trope, but black men are violent. And I'm like, well, okay, I mean, if all you know of us is gang violence, if that's all you've seen, I'm following your logic. You just never been exposing any other stuff. Now once you get exposing and stuff, you still feel like that. It's like, all right, you just, you just trash. You just, you just trash. But I'm like, I'm following, I'm following you. You know what I mean? You only know rap music. Okay, that's all you know of us. Okay, then you think that this is what we are. Fucking racist because clearly most people are more, everybody's more than the one thing you're trying to put them in. You know, but I'm following that. It's just for me, again, like I said, since anti-Semitism was never on the menu. Like it was never just, it just wasn't a part of my world when you hear things like the protocols are Zion and some of this stuff, even learning about the holly cost. Like if you were black person, you like, what's your deal? Like what? What's, what's you, what is so wrong with them? Like I don't understand why you don't like them so much. Like it's like, I can't even follow your logic, you know? Again, it's not even personal hatred of all people, right? No. It's, it's frame within this conspiratorial thing. But like, no, I don't hate Jewish people. I'm just questioning the Jewish power brokers in Hollywood. And I think that they have too much influence, right? That's how it's framed and that's how people, that's how someone like Kanye might actually think that actually feel because he works in Hollywood. Yeah. Right. But that is the only way you get there is because of decades of anti-Semitism. Yeah. That's the kind of point I was trying to get at. Yeah. The JK Rowling, banker, gobblin, didn't just like exist by itself. Exactly. Like none of these things are made in a vacuum. I never thought of that to you. You said it. Oh, shit. Oh, yeah. There's a star of David on the floor of the bank. I didn't even notice it. That was a piece. That's the piece. They'll point out it's just not very. Yeah. One, I mean, one of the things people will point out that is true is that that was not a set. They were filming in an actual building. And they chose to have that there. And the building had a star of David in the floor. And they chose to film there. Yes. It was like that would have been something people might have noticed. Yeah. At least, yeah. Someone would have just said, not even go over it. Not even, yeah. Just throw it right in like, yo, yo, maybe, maybe, listen, maybe we don't mean anything by it. But it could be seen as, you know, yeah. And just like, just like none of these things are in a vacuum. And Kanye's own statements are not in a vacuum. After Kanye made these tweets, you know, 4th Chan was quick to take it. But it was quick to eat up the Kanye pill. That Kanye, Kanye threads took up, took up most of polls posts for days. There's just, there's screenshots of, of poll, just Kanye post after Kanye post. All of all of the trending ones are all about Kanye. Nick Fuentes and his like gripper followers were celebrating the tweets. They see this as an opportunity to kind of mainstream, you know, their brand of horrible anti-Semitic fascism. And I hope people are prepared to take on, you know, fake Kanye stand accounts that are going to pop up everywhere to defending his anti-Semitism, like, you know, and defending. And talking about anti-Semitism from the point of quote unquote being a Kanye fan, it's there's a lot of, yeah, I was like, we've been a lot of fascist trolling is going to, it's going to come in the mask of Kanye West now. And we have been in this works. Yeah. I mean, we've been enduring. Among black Twitter, we have been enduring Kanye stands for in wild. You know, say that are just like, no, you're just a genius. Y'all don't understand. You playing 3D. We've been enduring this for a while. It's actually been very interesting in the sphere of the internet I exist in, of seeing people being like, yeah, no, I got nothing. So like people, yeah, there has been a good amount of people that have finally tapped out. Yeah. I think that's what is that type of vacuum opens up space for bad actors to use the mask of Kanye to then just promote fascism under this mask now. It's like a video with Trump in like a mega hat and every time. Sure. I mean, like anything, this creates a more specific type of dog whistle. I think because mega is obviously way more broad. I meant like Kanye's use of the truck. Sure. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Nick Frentez posted the tweets and his, and his telegrams saying, no way, we are so back. Do you trust the plan? Baked Alaska. Do you trust the plan? Baked Alaska post on his telegram. This is real, vindicated. And one of my least favorite telegram channels, Zuma Waffin, which God, just a damn it. I know. God. It's called what now? Tell me that again. Every time I talk to him with Zuma Waffin, I like it. I lose five years of life. So people, again, because folks who are not terminally online or like, what are you guys talking about? Waffin means weapon in German. No reason that it is a thing that Nazis talk about is that the SS had like a bunch of different things the SS did. But one of the things they had was a unit that existed within kind of the traditional hierarchy called the Waffin SS, which means the weapons SS. They committed a shitload of war crimes. Ever since Waffin has been a thing that you can kind of like stick to the end of the name of a group and you're signifying that you think the SS was based. Adam Waffin is kind of the most prominent terrorist group in the United States and other countries that's been a big thing. And you know, it not like zoom, like you get what they're saying. I get it. I'm sure Zuma are Waffin, right? It's a thing. Anyway, that's what you need to know. I just, I just, I get so pissed because I'm like, he's fucking nerds. I know. I know that's dangerous. You fucking nerds. It sucks. Yeah. I hate you. Yes. I'm just like you just, you got, if you weren't so dangerously violent, you know, just fucking nerds. Yes. Yes. That is the recurring statement on this show. Yes. It said, if they weren't dangerous, they would be much more funny. Yes. So, yeah, the, the, the, the, the Zuma Waffins posted the tweet and not, not all here does wear capes somewhere easy, gath merch and with it's anyway. So just two days after the anti-Semitic posts on his social media accounts, which got him banned, conning a then attended the Nashville premiere of Candace Owens Daily Wire Documentary Project, the greatest lie ever sold, George Floyd and the rise of BLM. And just imagine being one of the most famous people on the planet and choosing to hang out with the daily wire. Yeah. It's hard. Like they, like the word grooming obviously means nothing now. Yeah. But like they, they groomed him into this shit. Like they did. They really did. They really did. And groomed him into this nonsense. And it's, it's Kanye made a lot of choices here and those choices were like very selfish and based in narcissism. And while he is sick, he's not a victim fundamentally, but he also is being taken advantage of, right? Like that's, that's fair to say that doesn't ex-go-pate him from his guilt in this, but he is being taken advantage of. We're going to talk more about that, Mr. West. Another, another Kanye reference. Wake up, Mr. West. And like, like real quick, the, the, the, the, the, the, the part that is so, well, obviously it's all infuriating, but I'm like, you're, you're, you're going out of your way to purposefully tear down black people when they're suffering. Yeah. You don't have to, you don't, you can even say like, hey, you know, which is true, like there are some in the organization of Black Lives Matter. But as an organization, there's some problematic stuff that needs to be discussed and worked out. You know what I'm saying? And being like, okay, well, let's get some oversight here. What are we doing here? Let's have some accountability. Yeah. You know what happens? Why are you, why are you, why are you, this is, this is, this is, this is, this is Kenneth Owens, like explicit grift. Exactly. Exactly. That's my point. She, she, her job is to conflate the Black Lives Matter non-profit organization with the Black Lives Matter movement and, and and and and use criticisms of the nonprofit organization to basically say that any form of advocacy by people of color in, you know, using the Black Lives Matter movement banner is, is discredited because of the issues with the formal nonprofit organization in Portland. It's, I have never, I've never seen a single thing related to the Black Lives Matter organization, not a single thing. I mean, I guess maybe the signs like are sold by them. I don't know though. But like it's not, it's not a presence. Now we're talking about, exactly. Well, uprisings. It's not fit like it's the, the, the, the conflation of the, of the nonprofit organization with the movement is the specific thing that Kenneth Owens has focused on for the past five years of her career. That's, that's what she makes money on is, is, is, is exploiting this little thing and it's the thing that Tucker has adopted and this is the thing that she is convinced. It's just, it's just so, it's just so like, what do you do? Like, okay, so you need any, okay. Talk about, talk about globalism. Okay, that's your little thing, that's your little thing. Okay, you know, you don't like the, you don't like the Democrats, you know, you know, Brandon, whatever, but it's like, okay, a man died and was, and the cop was proven guilty. And that, that's, that's the most gross part because Kanye's embrace of conspiracy theories now about the fentanyl thing, right? Yeah, like, but his, his embrace of conspiracy theories is not just limited to anti, to, is not just limited to anti-semitism. Yeah. He now openly denies the proven facts of the events that led to the most recent international uprising in the Black Lives Matter movement. He jumped on board, his pal, Kanna Owens, absurd, quote unquote, documentary that claims the sequence of events proven in court and witnessed by the world via self-unfutage, did not actually happen. Um, that's why I'm like, you're going out of your way now. It's like you, you're, you're on a path and I'm like, you're purposefully going out of your way to hurt us. And that's the part that I'm like, why can't I say I don't use the word cone often. But I'm like, like, why are you doing, why are you doing this? Like you're, you're, it will be because we know why you're doing it. And it's just like, Candace, come on. Like Kate, Kate for the Republicans, do what you got to do. If you honestly think the solutions for our community comes from the conservative world, Kate for them, do what you got to do. You don't have to go out of your way. Like this is, you're going the, like you're taking the scenic route to just attack like I'm okay. Yeah. It's, it's, it's because I don't, they don't actually believe that that's what the solutions are. They're just, they're just living a really wealthy, extravagant lifestyle. Candace, the one's going to travel with Kanye West to Paris Fashion Week. She gets to have a red pepper premiere with Kanye West, Kid Rock and Ray J. Like that's, that's the life that she has been able to create by exploiting this thing. And of course she's going to do it because that's how you become a millionaire. Yeah. Two kinds of people get successful on the right. One kind is, fuck you got mine. I'm going to get what I can as quickly as I can. And the other is I want to create a Christian fascist ethno state. Like those are the two kinds. And one feeds into the other and Candace Owens has decided, I'm fine with helping the other kind of prominent conservative accomplish their goals because it won't get too bad, you know, during my lifetime. I can make enough money to get that. I'm one of the good ones. They're like, this is, this is the same thing with someone like Blair White for, you know, for, for trans issues. There's, there's a specific tokenized figures. Dave Rubin with, you know, with gay people like if they, they align as one of the good ones and they think that things won't get bad enough in their lifetime and they'll, they'll, they'll just, they'll just be able to profit. Yeah. If this, yeah, yeah. There's a way. And wait is Dave Rubin, wait, just to make sure I'm paying attention to it, is Dave Rubin to do that was like, well, scientifically speaking, a mermaid couldn't be that dark? No. Uh, that feels like a Ben Shapiro or Crowder bit. I, I, I don't remember specifically. Okay. I thought that was it. Either way, I was hilarious. It was one of those clowns. Yeah. Well, scientifically speaking, they're all paid by the same dude. Yeah. It doesn't matter. Yeah. They're all like, I still need to get this joke off. So it's frustrating that Kanye not only just attended the premiere, but is now actually parroting the disinformation and the, and the talking points that Kennis Owens used in her faux documentary. So just a few days after he went to the red carpet, he started spreading the, the, the disinformation on the police's murder of George Floyd on a podcast. I watched the George Floyd documentary that Kennis Owens put up. One of the things that his two roommates said was they want to talk guy like me. They want to talk guy like me. And the day when he died, he said a prayer for, you know, eight minutes. He said a prayer for eight minutes. They hit him with the fentanyl. If you look, the, the guy's knee wasn't even on his neck like that. When he said, Mama, Mama, his, his girlfriend, they said he screamed for his mama. Mama was his girlfriend. It's in the documentary. So that's pretty bad. And after, after that, he starts talking about other kind of random conspiracy theory stuff that inevitably leads him to making more comments about the Jews. So here's that clip. They blocked me out. The Jewish media blocked me out. This shit lit, right? I'm lit, right? I'm lit. I'm lit. You know what I'm saying? JP Morgan, I put a hundred forty million dollars in the JP Morgan and they treated me like shit. So if JP Morgan chased his treat and me like that, how'd they treat the rest of you? That's not right. And this is murder arrests with chase accounts. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. I am outraged. By the time people always, they want to calm it down. Because no matter what, you didn't break no law. I didn't break a law. I didn't break a law. I didn't break a law. The mention being judged or jury on anything that's going on. But this is, it's like a social contract. Candace Owens has a word for him for getting it. But it's basically like, they told Candace Owens she couldn't hang out with me for the Jewish people. What I'm doing is I'm me too in the Jewish culture. I'm saying, y'all got to stand up and admit to what y'all been doing. And y'all just got away with it for so long that y'all don't even realize what y'all doing. And it's like, y'all can't fuck with me either because y'all behind that gay defense, y'all soft, your hands got soft. You ain't out here getting beat up every day like me. You ain't out here getting called crazy every day like me. I'm not going to play anymore of that podcast because honestly, this is where it starts getting into the territory where it's just kind of exploiting someone's mental health issues for entertainment. And it gets, like, this is where it gets very disjointed. Candace starts talking about how the Louis Vuitton company killed one of his friends. Oh boy. Oh, it's a model of Virgil. Yeah, who actually died of cancer. Yeah. It's a conspiracy that Candace developed the past year. And he also talked about this for seven minutes in the unused Tucker Carlson segments. Which I'm also not going to include because it's I also for context like Virgil is like royalty among our community. Like what he did being the first black like head designer at Louis Vuitton. And I think a lot of us think a lot of us, I sound like Trump, a lot of people are saying no, but there is an understanding that like in a lot of ways Kanye was jealous of him. And in the way that he was able to succeed in Louis Vuitton. And then now that he's gone and clearly Kanye doesn't grieve well as we know. Yeah. And yeah, that would be fair. Yeah. Another segment of the Tucker leak includes a clip where Kanye is discussing visions from God on how to build free energy and fully kinetic energy communities and kinetic energy cities. So this come, like this is where I'm not going to actually include any more clips of Kanye because it's just it's it's just the laughing at the person who's not doing okay bit. And that's not cool. Now obviously like mental illness is not cannot be used as an excuse for bigotry or anti-semitism. But exploding someone's suffering through like a manic episode to score political points is also like a moral. And we're seeing a lot of like false choices being presented towards mental illness and anti-semitism. And the answer can actually be both. You know those struggling with mental illness do not kind of they don't originate these types of bigotry, right? But in but when you're a manic you can latch on to things and reflect them. And that's not saying it's okay. But it also it's we should not deny that like. I have seen a lot of people saying like mentally ill people don't say racist things which are like that's not true. Like if like if you if you've been around a lot of mentally ill people they can they they can it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's one of those weird like like vector points inside our brain. So yeah you actually can be be racist when you're not usually racist if you're experiencing a severe mental health episode and that's not that's not excusing you for your behavior. But also we shouldn't create this false division and we shouldn't like in some ways it's like. You're like a gatekeeping mental illness by saying no no real mentally ill person could say these bad things which yeah. I mean in support of people experiencing mental distress. Yeah it's on that same lane is like the you know the mass shooters and stuff like that exactly call it mental illness then like you can obfuscate any responsibility but but but also refusing to acknowledge that mental health can play a factor inside some mass shootings also misses the point exactly it's yeah it's just you can play a very large factor especially in the wave of like skits away inspired shootings exactly that's that's all I was going to say that that that conflation of something that really is real and really is important. You know you see that I see that with like I've known people who've worked in like you know like legit human trafficking like not like the dog whistle version but like actual rescuing you know traffic girls from the sex industry who were like pulled from a village you know I'm saying and put into a brothel like people that are like really out here like actually doing the work you know where trafficking is a thing you know and then you conflate it with these you know two non conspiracies and then like and of course a person who really works in this thing you're like you finally feel like you get some traction with people to actually care about the stuff you care about you know I'm saying and now now it's like if you mention trafficking it's like yeah you I can't it's like how do I you it's like no serious it's really a thing guys really it is you know but trying to disentangle it from yeah it's what you're saying is like to to do a one or the other thing is missing the point of both situations yeah yeah because obviously like Kanye isn't someone who's dealing with like a temporary mental health episode where he's yelling slurs on the side of a sidewalk Kanye is like an affluent man who's making calculated and financially driven choices but that still doesn't mean that stuff like bipolar does not play a factor and the types of impulsive decision making he's making and the types of people that he's surround himself with which influences his pattern of behavior combined with like social media and combined with his celebrity status creates this cycle of really unhealthy choices yeah like when you're talking about like fake children being planted in your home I mean red flag guys like yeah that's not like it's that's that's not you dismissing that as being no way related to mental illness I think is kind of a misstep yeah it I mean it's it's caught one of the things that's tough about this is that it hits all of the areas that like the primary places where conversation takes part socially or worst at dealing with yeah because like as we've said mental illness is a major factor in this it also does not ex-goal pay him from bad behavior it doesn't make what he's saying not racist but it's also tied in to like this deep manipulation campaign that the right is because they've been looking for a guy like this forever and you can see like that that's why Tucker and all these people folks were so quickly to spin up when he wound up being like amenable to that like yeah it's yeah because he's he's very clearly being encouraged to keep doing these sort of things for like entertainment and clout yeah and I think a lot of the responses to this kind of show how stigmatized that more severe personality disorders are compared to stuff like anxiety or depression or ADHD sure and because you also don't want to like villainize bipolar disorder instinct and stigmatize it further because a lot of people can live with bipolar disorder I've known I've known people that live with bipolar disorder who are not going on anti-Semitic grants like it's exactly it manifests different in lots of other people so it's you should not use this as an example to stigmatize other people with this or say it's just this it create you have to talk about you have to kind of think about this in a multi-faceted fashion where someone's not just good or not just bad yeah it's actually you have to get you know less into like puritanical you know perfectly unblemished victims and you know evenly like like evil intentioned oppressors like it's more complicated than that and the internet the internet's bad with a bad bad news nuance one of turn out turn out the internet sucks at nuance to close us off we're going to talk about how Kanye really has kind of been played by people by people like Candace Owens because a little over a week after his banishment from the two big mainstream social media platforms this past Monday Kanye announced that he is entered a deal to buy the failed far right social media platform parlor parlor CEO George farmer said that his wife conservative influencer Candace Owens approached Kanye about a parlor deal while attending his pair fashion week show worth about where the pair of them wore the black wore the white lives matter shirts so Candace Owens has been playing Kanye this entire time and is and is convinced Kanye to buy her husband's failing business like she's just playing hit like like parlor has currently only 50,000 daily active users even gab getter and trumps and trumps truth social have way more daily users than parlor and can someone says has convinced as has convinced Kanye to buy this fake I'm sorry I'm sorry did you say her husband owns parlor yes her husband is the CEO yeah okay for an idea of how failed it is the people I know who spend a lot of their time hanging out in far right spaces don't even get on parlor anymore like it's not it's not it doesn't matter it's yes it's the CEO is Candace Owens is husband I am a Clint I did not mean it's an obvious grift right yeah I'm like see which is not a bad one she's a very smart yes she is a successful grifter she that is I can't believe it like she finally broke character what I've been asking for these last to this these these two hours is give me a moment of clarity you just gave it to me right like she oh there it is this is what I've been waiting for got it I have I have one more page before we before we close out so okay all right I feel I don't know who can explain this the sense of relief I feel like it's so weird to say that but I feel so relieved that I'm like no it's it's it's it's it's extremely telling and it confirms a lot of the things that we've been thinking about what's been going on between her and Kanye for the past like five years yes so Kanye has been hit with a with a a $250 million lawsuit by the family of George Floyd yes the lawsuit was filed by Roxy Washington on behalf of her and George Floyd's daughter Gina as they should in a statement Washington's lawyers confirmed that she's doing Kanye West and his business partners for defamation harassment misappropriation and inflection of emotional distress and the legal team is allegedly considering a number of other possible defendants in the case including Candace Owens so it sucks that that's happening but I like that like that that's just like retraumatizing to the entire family yeah that they're having to dredge up all this stuff to see you fucking Kanye West in Candace Owens that sucks but I hope that they get all of their money like yeah I like I hope that they get to live forever on the money of Kanye West um it's like look dude like again it's just that like that oh saying it's like you ain't got to like me but just you you know you also don't have to be in my way you know so even when I look at somebody like a Candace or or whatever this like this fear of of specifically persons of color in this right wing grift that I'm like you don't like you don't have to help me but you also don't have to hurt me you know and that's and that's the part to me again I keep coming back to that it's like you're going out of your way to hurt us like that's that's I'm like I don't get it man like you don't you don't have to do there is so much money here's the thing this gonna sound terrible but I mean it to be terrible there is so much money to be made off white people like you can make so much money from them yeah we have a lot of it we took it from everywhere else yes you can make so much from them without destroying it without tearing us down you know just it's like and get your money I okay yeah I'm gonna I'm now gonna read like my thesis on this because I again I I did I did not I initially did not want to cover this I thought we probably shouldn't yeah I thought that it's it's kind of exploiting the same media cycles that encourages this type of on the behavior in the first place but I I have a thesis on this that I when I kind of go through and then we can and and in this discussion so in an online economy based on shock ad driven he'd a discourse and data collecting online engagement Kanye's outbursts are useful to be deployed as ready made am munition for culture wars even though what he said is so obviously beyond the pale quoting new republic west celebrity still existent despite the years of controversy and alienation is simply too valuable for the right after decades of being denied the endorsement of of predominant celebrities with the exception of like Clint Eastwood and con and and someone like Donald Trump and the rights gritting their teeth through how celebrities don't really matter to them the right cherishes the affection it receives from controversial crossover figures such as Elon Musk and Kanye West and doesn't want to lose them to distribute or at least wants to continue using them in spite of it west's willingness to lend his impromotor to the pet causes of people like Carlson and kind of soons makes him invaluable and unjetist in a bull to pick up a quote from the from a a Washington Post polling has repeatedly shown that white republicans view themselves as targets of discrimination equivalent to non majority groups Carlson and Trump sharing in that sense highlight anecdotes that reinforce that sense and push back against the group that's most forcefully calling for the playing field to be leveled the left the new elite so Carlson sees Kanye wearing a shirt that explicitly casts whites as victims and understands the opportunity here's a member of the inner circle of the elite a black man who's willing to elevate the idea that white lives are disadvantaged in an equivalent way to black lives to validate the victimization and discomfort let's set up an interview unquote so for Carlson's purposes west did not have to be wholly coherent you can easily edit out the parts where he's ranting about the Jews visions of kinetic energy cities and fake children Carlson was able to present to his viewers a famous black man who was being punished for holding views abhorred by the gatekeeping cultural elites in the podcast west combined his anti-semitism and anti-black infantilization into slander that Jewish people have owned the black voice but it's Kanye whose voice and platform is being used by far right grifters for profit by stoking white populist racism against both Jews and black people and now to buy their failed social media apps the conservative Christian right that has grown to use Kanye as a token won't be so quick to disown him for overtly conspiratorial or bigoted statements one of the lessons that the right has learned from Donald Trump is that there's no advantages to be gained from criticizing one's own as long as they're remaining loyal to the fundamental causes of the movement especially when it comes to exploiting white grievance west is then permitted to be as blatantly anti-semitic as he wants without fear of sanction he's clearly bigoted and clearly suffering but the right clearly considers him to be the most useful idiot or perhaps one of the brave few people who's willing to say the things that others may think but don't yet dare utter some have argued that there's no point in searching for meaning in Kanye's almost decades long descent that there's no deeper insight here just the truth that that anti-semitism is noxious and we're a tragically long way from defeating it but I think that misses the relatively clear trajectory that Kanye has been on since ultra-life beam to this now Christian identity but black shit and the very real danger and influence that a relatively small and unknown weirdos like cannis Owens can have on like country wide politics and finally to paraphrase from the Columbia journalism review Kanye West's statements are not of no consequence but anyone who spends time thinking about them and talking about them needs to not be complicit in exacerbating those consequences whether that be platforming bigotry or stigmatizing mental health issues if the meeting and the press must cover Kanye they should do so with context and with an eye towards accuracy reality history and motivation at minimum coverage should isolate what's important to Kanye's and the story and describe it clearly for what it is rather than mining him for controversy and then performing ignorance or agnosticism about the substance of what he's saying sadly too much top-line coverage of Kanye's recent outbursts did the latter with several mainstream outlets referring to the tweets and headlines as alleged anti-semitic posts or wrote that the posts have been widely deemed to be anti-semitic language that clearly reveals more about the authors than its subject so that that's kind of a thesis on why this is worth talking about and all of the moving aspects about what's going on here between cannis Owens Tucker Carlson and Kanye West so yeah good work that's really good work let's all go be sad yeah there's not really a solution here except I mean besides the besides the concept of celebrity like I mean you know all of this has at its root the same problems which is that when you allow money to equivocate like social and political power or equal social and political power and when you then hand certain individuals huge amounts of money a lot of them will either be outright evil or out of their minds or a combination of the two and they can cause tremendous damage to society as a result of it so it's good yeah I think that there's two you know from from my perspective there's the the metaphorical question of like okay is he disinvited to the barbecue like which is a you know again a metaphorical question I don't if you guys know of me when we say that was like can he come to the barbecue yeah so like yeah yeah you know what I mean it's like so the question we need to ask as a community as the culture like he so lovingly decides to mock but is that okay so as a community what does it take for us to finally disavow somebody statements and just be like all right brother you go you know because right now it's up for debate you know there are people that like you know we checked out long time ago you know there are other people that are like still like you know we love the old Kanye and that genius is still in there yeah but this album slaps okay I know he probably Mac I know he put the red hat on but you know the Sunday services was so dope you know I'm saying like so you have that discussion continually happening but I think that that's something as for for our community we need to learn how to we need to really discuss you know what does it take for us to like finally let somebody go like again I I keep going back to R Kelly because I'm like dog we knew we knew since a Leah that like this brother had problems you know I mean I think if there's a way to not alienate him fully so that his only friend is Candace Owens that would be great exactly that's that's why it's up for debate it's like you but I don't know how that process works that's what I'm trying to say that's part of the part that's part of the problem is like you but you know why we why it has a why it doesn't happen so fast like I said like our defense is normally our collective identity is the community that's how we defend each other and protect each other from falling off the edge either from the police or from yourself is like you bring them in and just be like oh baby we need to have a talk you know but at some point you're like our I fam we done you know and that's what happened with our Kelly it was like all right dog we tried you know we tried you we can't do this no more you know I think there's that and I think there's also another question obviously the the American evangelical which you know statistically speaking still only represents 9 to 11 percent of Christian as a whole across the world so you really like it's a this is a specific to us in America problem and I just wonder that's another question to me like y'all like they always looking for whether it was Tim T-bow or you always looking for champions you know and and this keeps happening to you keeps happening to you and y'all end up looking like assholes you know I'm saying and just not like the faith you say you profess like when are y'all gonna stop looking for champions like when you gonna stop looking for your and just be like let's just do the shit our book says you know like I just for better for worse like you know I just think that these are again these are interesting cultural questions you don't need no celebrity like why y'all always think you need a celebrity because you just because again you're just trying to be cool while at the same time saying that you stand against the culture it's like well fuck well if you stand against the culture why you always trying to have somebody from the culture to be your hero you know like well shit like I don't know I'm just saying like I think I do think that I again I don't have no answers either but I think that these are like questions that everybody that this fool affected y'all really need to ask yourself like you need to ask yourself you know like you said like the mental health stuff the problem of celebrity which is a bigger problem but to me these are he he he made he's making us inadvertently ask ourselves these big systemic questions that we still are afraid to reckon with I feel like who's to say that's a good note to end all okay well everybody that's gonna do it for all of us here man thanks for having me real the several podcasts that this is you can listen to hood politics by typing hood politics into whatever it is you used to look for things and you can listen to it could happen here by typing it could happen here into whatever thing you type stuff into go type stuff now bye you could watch the FIFA World Cup 2022 on TV or you could go to guitar and watch it live Frito Lay the official USA snack of the FIFA World Cup 2022 is 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discover.com slash online privacy protection oh god it is dead i'm Robert Evans welcome to the podcast where the first episode is bookie week podcast you try to figure out who murdered god and come to the conclusion that it was almost certainly well we I'm playing my finger at so my nils actually Robert I'm figuring bigfoot and wow you're okay now now dental dental I'm gonna need you to just cut that audio line out of the episode so that everyone on the team can play it as a drop whenever we need to James admitting to fingering bigfoot um all right uh that's going to be an episode everybody have a good week god bless you this is it could happen here this is spooky week right we're recording our first spooky week episode yeah phrase b to god all right what do we what do we have for the the ladies and not not the gentleman this one's just for the ladies i'm gonna say that right now yeah says hers and slurs it's that's what she's says it's yeah it is uh well we got what we got today what we got today Robert garrison is some stories about cryptids um so i want to start in the autumn of 1993 garrison was not alive uh and Robert and i were much younger and i want to start in northern california where one night three men set out to execute a pretty routine weed trade right they're gonna drop your kind of yourself get some money come home uh and it's not exactly a secret at that time and in that place there was a lot of illegal grow operations and it's not exactly a secret yeah Robert you yeah have you heard about this i know yeah yeah yeah i mean like it's just number one once you hit about anywhere in like the coastal northern california from like santa cruise on up bigfoot is like a topic not even not even really of discussion but there's just bigfoot shit all over the god damn place um from arcaded like grants pass is probably the biggest density of bigfoot shit but it's all throughout or again all throughout washington you get a decent amount in Idaho i think too um yeah people make a lot of money with bigfoot there's even a bigfoot highway up there but yeah i was listening to a dog shit podcast recently it's not very good uh it's called wild thing and it's by some former npr reporter i've had these the squatches podcast right yeah she's doing like a bigfoot thing it's just not very good like there's bits in there where she'll like quote one guy who's like there's a lot there's so much evidence for bigfoot if you type bigfoot into google there's like 11 million results so and the section and an actual scientist will be like there's no evidence for bigfoot and she just is like what are we to think yeah what can we do those sides both sides yeah i didn't find it very edifying i was listening to what i was alone on the mountain this weekend um there were two sides to bigfoot story rub it it doesn't matter if one of them is wrong no um it's very fun but yeah i've been yep because i also the parts of the west coast that are bigfoot country are also the parts of the west coast that grow like more pop than anywhere else on planet earth and yeah yeah which is interesting isn't it because these two things may or may not overlap yeah i think they do yeah please continue yes so uh who knew made it i i will use the loosely use the word documentary here yeah loose is is good for this mm-hmm so uh i gotta use a few words loosely here uh so according to david holthouse uh georlist which is again a word i'm using uh maybe loosely but he does a pretty good job in in what i've seen it actually he's he's fine holthouse so the interesting thing about him and what i do kind of like about him is he's like the he he worked as a trimmer like so the pot industry the there's the people who move the marijuana around the country including smuggle it into places where it's still fully illegal there's the people who sell it either illegally or at dispensaries um there's the people who grow it and then the largest by number chunk of the weed trader the trimmers and those are the people every season usually in the fall come down for three or four months northern california southern Oregon mostly and they they take raw marijuana that's been like bucked and cut off of the plant and they trim it into the kind of buds that you buy um and this guy was doing that back in the nineties and he ran into these stories about a bigfoot murdering two or three mexican guys yeah that's exactly it yeah so i think he actually does a really good job in this documentary yeah i actually didn't think it was was bad yeah no no i was ready for it to be bad but yeah i was quite impressed with so what happened is yeah like quibbit says that there are these probably migrate probably undocumented workers right who come well uh a lot of them there's a good chunk of them probably i don't know by my estimates maybe 20 to 30 percent are like mostly white kids from various parts of the country a lot of them are folks who are either kind of seasonally unhoused many of them like live and camp basically in places like arcada a big chunk of the year and then we'll live on farms while they trim um there are a decent chunk who are undocumented a lot are mong um like a lot of are like first like particularly older mong people who like came here after Vietnam and started businesses and then like their kids and grandkids got into the pot trade and were like well my you know grandma or my aunts retired and they like they living in the woods and are good at trimming like we can make a bunch of extra money this way um it's all sorts up there yeah it's kind of fascinating so these three guys set out to do this deal right that they're three of the people who fall into the uh undocumented labor category and then ever come back um and whole house is sitting in one of these farmhouses or in a trailer or something when when couple of guys come in and say hey those those dudes never came back and they've been killed right they seem to have been sort of uh pretty brutally murdered but the weed that they were carrying was still there so it wasn't like somebody shook him down and stole the weed right and yeah you by the way if it was a weed industry thing you probably wouldn't because everyone's got a lot of fucking weed I mean people do steal weed but if you're out there doing a murder it's probably because somebody's fucking with your business in a bigger way than whatever they happen to have on the fucking farm like I wouldn't be surprised if a pot murder would not result in whatever shit they had in their trailer actually getting jacked okay right then yeah because the weed is something that everyone has so uh at the time their deaths are largely if not entirely factually attributed to Bigfoot right it's put out there that these people were murdered by Bigfoot now they are not the only people whose deaths have been blamed on Bigfoot uh earlier this year July 10th 2022 to Seminole County Sheriff's Office uh reported the murder of Mr Jimmy Niten and the press release they said Larry Sanders has reported killing Mr Jimmy Niten by the South Canadian River. Sanders and Niten had been noodling in the river on July 9th okay now yeah so get it to me Robert you're you're from this part of the world it's this one you stroke a catfish you don't stroke well yes basically it's when you use kind of your fingers as bait and you catch a catfish by the mouth right great yes we call it noodling what a country yes I mean James he Robert to the great days these days catch a catch a catch a catfish by the North be it something very different yeah so does noodling yeah or as the Mormons call it soaking sure there's a great story this is off topic but there was just an outbreak in South Lake City of armpit crabs because so many Mormon kids are having having armpit sex and also not use of protection yeah it's awesome it's so funny really not that's just wow yeah kids are we still doing this we're still doing this care we're gonna be doing this the rest of your natural life yeah never getting past this shit this is what the future holds for you this is decade of armed fucking so uh signed as a knight in with they were old school noodling they would they weren't online new of course yeah that's the best kind of noodling in my opinion that's what I've heard so they're at there at the river at some point mr uh sanders becomes convinced that nightan has summoned bigfoot to kill him that's interesting you don't hear that a lot you don't because I didn't think bigfoot was summonable that wasn't on the table of of things that I thought one could do to a bigfoot I mean I've always thought bigfoot was summonable but not for murder for sex sure yeah that's why his armpits are so crabby well that's what everyone says about bigfoot so you can identify him in a crowd so at some point uh signed as becomes convinced that bigfoot is on his way I was gonna kill him and so he unfortunately strangles his noodling partner to death well that's tragic and then noodling part well I'm sure you're gonna leave it we're just gonna leave it we're just gonna leave it we're just gonna move straight on yeah yeah uh so yeah it does sound rather tragic it does sound rather sad but um it he seems to have reported pretty openly that he believed that bigfoot was on its way and if he didn't stop this ritual that bigfoot will kill him and a lot of as it turns out things that people can't really explain uh often the times when people are in human to other humans tend to be explained as the actions of monsters right and yeah what want to quote from the documentarian the director uh Joshua Rofa who made that film uh he says the thing that people should be afraid of is not the boogeyman in the woods it's our next door neighbors who will usually commit acts of violence that will then terrify you know everybody on the block or in the neighborhood Rofa said that working in northern california was very scary we did enter a sort of underworld you know for lack of a better term and you know we were really mindful to try not overstay our welcome there so i want to get into cryptid a little bit uh and i want to get into some some of the more famous ones uh as well as a curse i've got a curse here oh good yeah uh the curse is great because it's invented by the california park service uh but i want to explain kind of the social functions that they sometimes serve as well as just having some fun talking about cryptids so the one that i thought might serve a social function and probably the most famous cryptid aside from bigfoot is our friend that jubicarbara right um yeah yeah in english that translate to goat sucker which is uh okay yeah yeah yeah we're staying we're staying on this bit i see yeah yeah yeah we're on themes not a bit garrison it's culture yeah cheaper you know it's not a costume i'll say this i'm reading a great book right now about the the houseboat sucker no it's it's called the last emperor of mexico and it's about that hapsburg who tried to become the uh yeah yeah yeah and they hung his ass in like three weeks yeah it's very funny um love to see but yeah good stuff huge respect to the people of mexico um so actually know that jubicarbara doesn't come from mexico uh comes from portorico but i didn't know that actually yeah so get a little bit about the jubicarbara um the perhaps the best source for this as far as i can find is this guy Benjamin redford uh who has written a book about the jubicarbara um and he shows that nearly all of the i witness accounts can be trace back to this one uh the first account which was this woman called mavalin tollantino in the 1990s in uh 1995 in portorico right so it's also much more recent than i thought like the jubicarbara is 27 years old it is said it's younger than me and which is quite remarkable given how much cultural impact it's had yeah i thought i thought it was much older yeah be too i thought it was this uh and i can all tiny border legend and you're what 49 james that's correct yeah yeah okay just make it yeah no yeah i'm just i'm just kicking here for a couple more years before i can claim that sweet i heart media attention get that i a r p go to the go to the go to the fucking the sizzler and get five percent off that that's it man i got to be issued my 1911 which you get when you're 60 years old you get a you get a 1911 and you get a lubi's gift card yep and you get to evoke the second world war whenever anyone is rude to you even if you weren't in it and you're you're allowed to drive your car into a farmer's market in the state of california up to twice yeah you have to try after that you have to move to argon mm-hmm that's right so yeah i'm uh in tow my retirement day i want to talk a little bit about this it's super popular so uh they're fascinating because like with bigfoot right there are as you have mentioned 11 million google results but no actual bigfoot right no no one's ever found a bigfoot no one can present to you big feet big big feet is that yeah yeah but it takes an eye right so it's from the Italian big feety that's righty that's right yeah okay uh so there aren't a big feety but there are tubercabras and the reason there are tubercabras is that what people a tubercabra right the name goat sucker this this will shock you uh garrison especially that the way that they are sucking goats is perhaps not the way you would expect interesting yeah they're very innovative and disregard what is happening is people are finding their goats their chickens their livestock with their throat ripped out yeah yeah yeah yeah okay so it is the way you look at animals need throats right it's one of the parts that yeah they're not into changeable they're not yeah they're really that's good to know this is all really important information yeah yeah so throat free goats cattle sheep chickens tend not to survive very long so a lot a lot of times people come out in the morning find their animals throatless and dead and yeah you could you could call it a deep throating that's when they get it right deep in the throat and so they uh these animals are dead and the people claim that they're drained of blood which isn't quite true of course now there's there's only there's only two possible explanations do you want to go to one obviously being vampires um the other being this being this cryptid creature well of course only only possible things it could be that tubercabra is a vampire it's okay okay okay so yeah that's where the ventiogram overlaps is this kind of it's it's got goat-like legs actually but then it's bipedal it has kind of a human torso and a sort of lizard meets wolf face it's how okay so we're we're we're virgin like jersey devil vampire tears yeah okay yeah yeah yeah yeah but it did it it prefers warmer climate it doesn't like jersey and frankly I mean me neither so yeah something yeah yeah yeah look I don't go east to new Mexico and I don't think anyone else should either no it doesn't it doesn't care for Bruce Springsteen and it doesn't want to live in New Jersey so it uh it stays out west uh but it's been reported all over the world actually now the the couple of interesting things about these tubercabras one is the people have found them uh especially in Texas right are you familiar rubber with Texas blue dogs no okay uh let's tell rubber something about Texas yeah so this lady I don't have my name right down here she was a Texas nutritionist and she but we do oh by the way I will say when it came to like cryptids people taught me about in Texas it was the chupacabra oh well okay yeah we yeah we we basically Mexico like yeah yeah yeah not Ted Cruz who is the other famous Texas cryptid yeah uh but unlike Ted Cruz this uh this chupacabra had actually been to a farm and it had been ripping out the throkes of these animals right and this lady had a problem with with the animals throkes being ripped out and then one day she finds a corpse of what she presumed to be a chupacabra it is hella looks kind of like a dog but it has pronounced glands on its bump so on its back I guess uh and it it has thick blue skin so what why would you do Robert if you if you were living in Texas you come across a dead chupacabra uh I mean fry it up a little bit of a noob in the sauce you know um I had maybe even some green chili throw that shit on there and just kind of a fryer yeah I haven't even yeah that makes sense that one didn't even hit me but yeah having yeah I know there was a couple of taco spots we went to in Texas which that might have been what was going on yeah you just get whatever kind of me done man or meets me yeah so that's not what the lady did she was a nutritionist perhaps so she was a little worried about the nutritional content she had the cover she had it stuffed and and it's in her living room today okay okay so it's just like a coyote like what like what what is it well that's an interesting question isn't it Gary said is an interesting question Gary yes what the what the blue dog seems to be is some kind of hybrid of of a Mexican wolf and a coyote that has some kind of mange which has made all its careful off nearly all of the chupacabras are are some sort of canine with mange because mange makes it look like a fucking monster yeah so what maybe like if you saw a giant swings cat you would also think that's a cryptic yeah and especially if they've been ripping the throats out of your animals right because these poor coyotes and feral dogs and such is are so weakened by the mange so they can't prey on wild animals and so they tend to come okay right it's pretty easy to catch chickens if you can get into the coop right because they got nowhere to go or to catch goats and so unfortunately poor little guys what's happening is to these dogs these various canids are getting mange and they are unfortunately two week to hunt and so they're killing things like captive goats and chickens and that is where the chupacabra mist comes from going back to the bipedal chupacabra though it's very interesting that sounds a little bit more fun yeah so in the year before the chupacabra was seen there was a film made in Puerto Rico and it was called species and god oh man yeah okay okay so unfortunately the the original eyewitness report which began the year after that film was released yeah this I've heard they all perfectly describe the creature it's got the spines on its back Radford Radford is the person doing right in the book Radford said the the resemblance between the creature which is called sill in the film and the chupacabra is really impressive so yeah the the old quadrupedal chupacabra it's a dog with mange the bipedal chupacabra seems to be exclusively explained by this this movie and people's feelings about United States colonialism in Puerto Rico specifically the number of defense facilities and labs in the yonke rainforest and their feelings that maybe something like this shit could come out of one of these us labs because if the US was developing a terrible creature that sucked the blood of people it would absolutely do it in one of its colonial properties right yes that entirely makes sense so this is in a sense the chupacabra according to Radford's theory gives a physical manifestation of this feeling of disgust with the with the United States and I got a couple of other cryptids I was going to talk very briefly about the beast of proctor valley and then I want to talk about the curse of Boney which is a curse not encrypted but first Robert do you know which what will not ambush your livestock and rip its throat out um I mean like like a good sheep dog wouldn't do that that's right and that's why this episode is presented by border collies wow let's hear the finally finally got the big deal with the border collie yeah that's right that's good yep just use promo code Robert Evans when you're buying your border collie for 10% off just walk up to a border collie and shout my name in its face try to grab its food away from it rapidly too that's a good way to get their attention and see what happens yep refuse to be heard it yeah see see if it likes up all right we're back I hope you have all got your border collies because this next this next cryptid is it's a little local one okay so they're encrypted a bit like the trooper carburel across the country but the one that we have closest to San Diego is called the proctor valley beast and now to understand a proctor valley beast I think you got to understand proctor valley proctor valley is exactly the sort of dirt road that you go down when you're 16 years old when you want to go summer with your date pound a few beers and get away from your parents right these kind of exist all over the country all over the world probably and they're a little closer they're close enough to know about but far enough a way to seem weird and distant right proctor valley is a gravel road and you you can drive down at the regular carb it's pretty washboarded there's no lights there's no street lights nothing like that right these days your greatest danger when you're driving riding a bike or walking or driving down proctor valley road is the border patrol absolutely hauling ass in in one of their um ford raptors which they seem to have obtained and I will never understand their love for the Ford Raptor it is I don't know how much those costs but it is an obscene amount of money to spend on a pickup truck well it's also like look if I'm going to be out in the in the middle of nowhere and trusting an off-roading vehicle my first pick is not going to be the Ford goddamn rap well you got to buy American rub it yeah but their border patrol of course they're driving for it's unbelievable yeah well they always have a predator drone hanging out it can come rescue them yeah yeah the the border patrol and steroid abusers in my old neighborhood in West L.A. shaking hands over the Ford Raptor yeah ford raptors with illegal things yeah ford raptors the car you can only drive if you have adult onset acne causes a result of injecting hormones into your fucking thigh every night yeah they tell a lot of them in L.A. come incidentally yeah well you really need one for you know getting down Beverly Hills Boulevard not the good hormones like the ones you you steal from horses blood yeah yeah yeah the uh the hormones you take when you're wanting to be more mature but maybe not quite it not quite achieving your gender insecurities okay so legend has it that young couple headed off down proctor valley road one night and their car broke down so the young man gets out this is a male female couple and he's going to fix the car right and he says to the lady in a very chivalrous way that she should lock the door so she's safe right that's the last she hears him so she assumes he's gone off to get some help and she nods off she's got the door slugs he's very safe he's nods off and she's a woken by a kind of scratching sound and the winds howling every time the wind blows there's a little scratch on the root scratch scratch scratch scratch scratch scratch right no wind noise I'm not going to do the wind noise uh and she starts shitting herself right she's very scared now scratch scratch scratch wind wind scratch scratch scratch and she stays there till sunshine when she's sun up when she's working up by the good people of the San Diego Sheriff's Department San Diego Sheriff's Department of shouting their pointed guns they're doing their thing why are they doing that because her boyfriend is hanging upside down dismembered from the tree above her and his nails are catching the top of the car every time the wind blows him right he's been killed by the proctor valley beast now the proctor valley beast is an animal of kind of nondescript shape and size uh the in the 1970 the local radio DJ organized a search for the proctor valley beast right people went out at night previously the proctor valley beast most of the stories it kind of looked like a kind of winged bipedal half human goblin creature it changed it for me in the 1970s when people uh conducting like it's just kind of a teen radio thing in the 1970s right people conducting this search reported find a gay deranged cow okay the cow was probably not derated the cow was just sleeping yeah I've known more cows than most people I grew up on a cow farm I've seen them behave in a variety of ways I've never seen one appeared deranged yeah it's because they're moving very quickly sometimes they're scared sometimes they're sick deranged as an interest because cows don't have enough going on up there to be deranged like you didn't grow up and they knotted kingdom in a certain period of time but when our cows became mad well but that's still I've seen cows that have a mad cow disease and they're like they're ill but they're I don't know yeah they're not like like yeah that's a no like forgetting the name of their eldest daughter as they like as they lose their way home going on violent rampages they're asking where their husband who died 23 years ago is when they wake up in the middle of the night anyway see see no cow they have to go live on they go live on a farm when they get old the cows that's why you haven't seen them rub it I should do like that young Ronald Reagan that's it that's my cow voice yeah yeah they yeah they get they get old they forget things they vote for Donald Trump they do have issues and that's what happens to cows is the only ways cows can die otherwise they live very happy and fulfilled lives in the countryside so when when do we have this proctor valley beast right why is there a mad cow that murdered a young man who was who was out late nights with a young woman no one no one knows who this young man is right I did to try my best to find reports of any murders in proctor valley and of course it weren't surprising to learn that we have in fact discovered dead bodies in proctor valley because unfortunately proctor valley is just a few miles from the border and oh yes well and I spent quite a lot of time out in that area and unfortunately the people that we are finding dead in proctor valley haven't been killed by a deranged cow or a bipedal beast but in fact by the elements right it's people trying to cross the border and find a better life for themselves and not making it as far as the dirt road it leads to a small town which leads to a big road which leads to a big town that is close to there and so what what the proctor valley beast is a myth that serves to tell kids to not drive down dirt roads late at night on their own right it's do it kids fuck your parents yeah absolutely fucking send it your meada can handle it get off road yeah do some drifting what's the worst it could happen maybe if you're out there take a gallon of water and maybe maybe I'm not going to say that because there might be a crime yeah we can cut that but I was going to say handgun with a single bullet in case you get stuck off road I still have a bullet and yeah and a nail to hit it with so the last the last curse I want to get to you is the curse of Bodhi State historic park do you know do you know where that is Robert no when you said Bodhi I thought immediately about the movie point break okay haven't seen it oh well that's okay that Garrison you seen it no oh sorry I forgot this is this is the point break this is an audio medium yeah I can't shake my head no no I'm not seeing point break you haven't seen point break oh my god oh my god I only watch the filmmaker's previous far superior film that will not be named okay like one person will get who's next well we're gonna have to watch point break but there's a guy named Bodhi on it and he is kind of encrypted all right interesting say there Bodhi has a bit of a problem right Bodhi is and a band he did he was robbing all those those banks anyway yep well this story does involve some robbing oh good yeah but I have a bit of theft on the podcast so what happened to Bodhi is Bodhi's got a problem right Bodhi has a problem specifically with mail because almost every week when the ranges from Bodhi travel into town to get the mail they have to collect half a dozen or so little packages containing little things like rocks peaches of wood fragments of pottery or coins and all of those little packages have letters attached to them and I'm gonna read from some of those letters please find enclosed one weather beetle old shoe the shoe was removed from Bodhi during the month of August 1978 my trail of misfortune is so long and depressing it can't be listed here another one you can have these godforsaken rocks back I've never had so much rotten luck in my life please forgive me for ever testing the curse of Bodhi okay so what we got here what we got here is a curse right just good old fashioned if you steal something from the town the town will come back and hurt you right yeah yeah and so Bodhi popped up in the late 19th century gold rush right it's in between uh monolake and Lake Tahoe they did it's named after a gold prospector uh there was some gold found there in fact at its height Bodhi hosted around 10,000 people right and for those 10,000 people there were 60 saloons which is a pretty good ratio there's multiple documented gun fights on the main street Bodhi it seems like your stereotypical world west town but after the gold rush was over it wasn't such a great place to live so people abandoned it and it's now managed by the California Park Service right and the California Park Service curates this ghost town in arrested decay so that people can come and see this little slice of history and there's a lot we can learn from these like these places that have been abandoned right we can learn a lot about the history of everyday life like oh well what things do people have in their kitchen why with this next to that why is there a knife here why is why the bear bottles kept here there's a lot that historians could learn over time that they might not find initially so it's important to keep these things in and really pristine condition right the problem that they had was once they opened the park you could just walk around town right it's not like a museum there aren't little little ropes that there aren't plexiglass divides it's keeping you away from stuff and people took that as an invitation to steal shit and steal shit they did so the a park's ranger who I cannot find the name of anywhere but at some point a park ranger giving the walking tours around Bodhi started telling people about this legendary curse and this curse he said made it so that anyone who took anything from Bodhi would be pursued by bad luck for the rest of their life didn't really think anything I would be to do more people to steal shit right and as a result hundreds of people who had stolen things from Bodhi started returning them in the mail right they're blaming everything from cellulitis cancer failed relationships on the thing that they stole from Bodhi and now this would just be funny if it wasn't for the fact that every single one of these items has been stolen from a protected site right so the park service has now set itself up with this huge administrative burden which is reporting a theft for every single shoe or piece of glass or button that's stolen from Bodhi so to do it's taking up a huge denauder amount of their time and they no longer will speak I've tried to reach out I didn't get a response I did drop them a Facebook message on their page trying to try to talk to someone about this but they no longer talk about the curse because it's created such a burden for them filing police reports all these broken buttons see this is the actual curse that they did themselves like this is how most curses actually work is that you just actually like the effect is what you turn the thing into and now your force do all these police reports and that's the actual effect of the curse yeah I think it's wonderful I think it's great that they made this this rudge for their own back you know you know what won't curse you with cancer will sell you lie to this garrison I cannot I yeah there's there's a lot of weird stuff that effort exx on mobile will give you cancers yeah well the gold that we're about to plug that's totally totally safe you can huff that gold you can melt it down dip your hand in get a gold-plated hand totally fine so yeah lick it lick it pop it you know that's that too garrison sure shame no pop it was incredibly popular when I was a kid okay it was like everywhere all right we're back and having all received our little bags of gold for that plug we did yep I have mine right here I like to keep it with me in case the shit hits the fan I buried I've buried mine in the middle of the organ desert smart I've buried a couple of things in the middle of the organ desert mm-hmm none of them gold well that was that big that's on your definition of gold yeah big foot armpit is what you buried out in your definition of that guy I started the barbershop in anyway whatever continue yeah okay yeah we don't need to talk about that on the podcast thanks for issued out don't we don't want any more rabbits felonies on on main it's only a felony if the police find the body mm-hmm that's true but maybe you could put put some shit out there about a curse related to the body yeah yeah for sure yeah how give it some mange yeah and then strut it so why why do we have curses encrypted obviously partly because it's just fucking fun and partly because some of our beliefs right like if we if we look at Dirkheimer or Dirkheimer thought religion worth religion is kind of an an outgrowth of society that unites people based on a moral code right and functionless more broadly in sociology believe that these beliefs serve a function in society and I think a lot of these things help us explain things that we can't otherwise explain or give a more palatable explanation for things that we don't care to explain right or things and and like in in nearly all of these cases there are things that rip children away from their mother's right there's another mexican like shape shifting which uh the rich children away from their mothers right uh unfortunately there are things that rip children away from their mothers uh and your taxpayer dollars pay for them right but it it works a little better to explain things that we don't that don't fit with our other systems of belief through like if we fundamentally believe right that that I know that the world is good in capitalism is wonderful and that gradually things will trickle down so that everyone gets richer if the rich get richer first it can become very hard to explain the state of the world unless you are a member of the conservative and unionist party of great Britain and Northern Ireland of course and so instead we create these external things right and these things that go bump in the night so sometimes they can be a proxy for external forces right uh the chupacabra in a way kind of explains as we get closer to nature and nature pushes back on us a little bit that why that happens right rather than just saying oh fuck we've given all these currencies mange how on earth are we in a state where does a blue dog walk around the uh the chupacabra serves as a way to kind of personify for people in Puerto Rico either consciously or unconsciously the terrible impact of the United States colonial it's on there right which it's not very hard to see and even the proctor valley beast right that says stay away from this dark road near the border late at night there were reasons to stay away from there but unfortunately there are there were also reasons to go there and try and help people who are genuinely suffering and lots of people I know go and go and leave water out there so uh these curses they kind of let credit scores right they're not real but they can sometimes ruin your life and and so sometimes it's just easier to pretend that it's magic doing that rather than it's overarching global system which is not very nice and that's kind of where I want to finish up I guess is this these are ways to explain things that we can't always explain and that that's sometimes okay because sometimes it can be hard to confront these things you got anything else you want to say about cryptids Robert I don't know um I think if you're in an industry that's adjacent to illegal drugs and you murder someone in the woods it's probably a good idea to blame it on Bigfoot so that would be my advice for our listeners is to blame your crimes on Bigfoot I don't know do you guys believe in Bigfoot let's let's end by talking about that like actually like actually in the physical a yes like thing that's been well well undiscovered that roams in this force say ape like garrison primate I think doesn't necessarily mean ape like sure sure primate probably not pithicus and I I don't do not do not do not think that there's a physical one exists now I think like we've mentioned before like the words you know you can say like a curse isn't real you but it can still have effects based on how we talk about it and how like we can kind of make it real by our own actions and same thing like I don't think Bigfoot the primate exists but as a cultural symbol that has impact he based it is real in some way but it's not like yeah except for I would say it is real in a physical way and if you see the big foot Robert are you gonna it's just this is why you drop in your big foot yeah I actually I actually have I've seen a couple I've seen a couple of large animals out in the woods I've seen weird stuff in the woods I don't think I'm not comfortable calling it bigfoot well I am weird weird things in the woods certainly certainly yeah I've seen a lot of weird things in the woods and all of them were bigfoot as far as I guess everyone has ever been able to convince me and you know when you get right down to it isn't that what Christmas is all about yes happy happy Halloween 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wishbox dot life let me guess unknown caller you could reduce the number of unwanted calls and emails with online privacy protection the latest innovation from discover will help regularly remove your personal info like your name and address from 10 popular people search websites that could sell your data and will do it for free activate in the discover app see terms and learn more at discover dot com slash online privacy protection oh no there's that monster coming to kill me with his fentanyl knife ahhh ahhh it got me ahhh what a bummer welcome to this is welcome to spooky week we're talking about all of the scariest things a podcast with foreshadowing that is foreshadowing yeah with deputy garrison davis just I've been on fentanyl by being near it and will not see 17 knock-ins yep it was very scary very very very spooky yeah it's good it's good to it's good to be it's good to be back with spooky week all right so this episode I believe Chris has something special prepared for us yeah so this today we we are talking about one of the the most immediately recognizable and enduring symbols of Halloween and one of the things that I've had to spend the most time cropping out of party invitations when I was sending them to like kids in public school oh what no we're talking to you we're talking to other other iconic Halloween imagery yeah well this is the one like like specifically I had to spend a lot of time cropping this out of I I fucking like party invitations people because if like you're you're you're in your like fucking shitty Christian suburb and if you send a kid home with an invitation that has a that has a black cat on it uh their parents will pull them out of public school because of like the rising threat of satanism better to stick to the the tried and true you know like put a unibom around it or something yeah you got you got a lots of nice stars you put some crosses on it instead but like a cornucopia make sure it's like called like a harvest festival or some bullshit yeah harvest festival yeah no come to my fucking pentagram party or your party sick so yeah we're talking about the black cat um and ironically the black cats association with witchcraft is actually this is the Catholic church's fault as are many things so yes only bad thing they've ever done but even created Protestantism it's a it's a real issue so yeah who so okay so Pope Pope Gregory the ninth the May cats eternally feast on his soul it took took office of the pope in 1227 and six years later in in in in 1233 he issued his first papal bull just this is this bull is called vox in Rama and vox in Rama is essentially like it's a giant anti witchcraft bull that is designed to like okay what do you mean by bull like people people people bulls are these like orders basically that are like declared by the pope and they turn it to sort of like they they they they have the sort of legal status that they're they they determine what sort of church doctrine and church positions because it's basically like it's like it it's like the it's like it's like it's like an executive order for the pope okay all right and they could just do this so they do this a lot and yeah this is this is the sort of anti witchcraft one because he's trying to rally support for like stamping out a bunch of heretics in uh Germany for the cry of like not believing in catholic doctrine and giving off their money to the pope so this bull like directly links cats to satanic rituals there's this whole thing but like half cat like half people oh I was there I was yeah we are we are back to iconic trans to go to Halloween imagery we full circle there are no new moral panics this is a fucking furry panic in like 1233 it's it's amazing it's cat girls killed God yeah unfortunately the product of this is that you know like this this this this this this this is off to the races right black hats and become associated with witchcraft and then sort of in general with bad luck and you get this whole sort of like you know crossing a black cat like bringing a bad luck and this has really sort of devastating real-world effect on cats like there are sort of like it is yeah like I mean like it like throughout Europe like from this point on like periodically there was mass killings of cats in Europe yeah because like these people are fucking barbarians and savages who like should never have been allowed to like leave their stone huts um what when I was getting a a few a while ago when I was getting some childhood cats we were talking to the cat agency and we learned that they don't allow people to adopt to black cats during October because people either buy them as props and then like you get rid of them or just like abuse them um it's it sucks it's like an actual problem yeah and then are we gonna get to the great cat massacre no what is the great cat massacre that sounds like it's that sounds like a sequel to that to that most Sherlock Holmes movie that Disney made yeah it's extremely dark version yeah uh no the great cat mask is a book by Robert Dunton it's like a uh it's a very clever if you're doing a history graduate degree and you're reading like these sort of histories of every day life or like histories of popular laughter you will read the great cat massacre and uh he details how like basically in France you can't remember when but uh these printers of apprentices were like then the apprentices lived with the printer right and the printer's wife also had a bunch of cats which she cared for much better than the apprentices uh so they they got mad and started doing cat murders oh no they put the cats on trial and convicted them of witchcraft wait wait so this is like this is like judicial murder yes yeah they sent it to cats to uh death by having they hung them or something oh my god did the cats have like a defense attorney like what is what is a witch craft one oh you're supposed to have an advocate at a witchcraft trial so one would hope but unfortunately the what my guess though is that if you're probably gonna get another cat which is like not a great defense attorney no they don't get a single fuck oh I don't know they could they could really fuck up your face or something if they just you know when uh it close out I don't know if the cats had a defense attorney that's an excellent question uh someone's read it more recently than me this is this is a writing we have that great poster someone took from a vet's office that was like fighting cats it's like don't fight fair use drugs great one oh yeah yeah yeah so but you know okay my piece of advice you is don't fight fair yeah use drugs yeah it's great it's good good good general advice mm-hmm and put them in your Halloween uh sweets yeah yeah yeah four shadowing yeah yeah so according to a study from the journal animals uh black cats have the highest rate of use in the use the nasi and shelters and have lower rates of adoption like have the lowest rate of adoption among all fur colors which is like extremely fucked up and it's also like the number of cats that we use in eyes every year is just so bleak it's very sad yeah so fuck the Catholic Church this is their fault somehow however comma for millions of people across space and time the black cat has met something else entirely this black cat with its fur raised and back arched is the bringer of the class war the herald of the new world and its name is sabotage and okay so be peace to boys song about it yeah and people before before we get into how the sabotebi or the sabotebi became associated with sabotage we have to talk about what sabotage actually is and the reason we have to do this is because sabotage like does not mean the same thing now as it did when the term was coined so if you look at sort of the modern definition of sabotage it's it's almost entirely focused around sort of the physical destruction of property like here's Mary a web series definition for example destruction of employers property such as tools or materials or the hindering of manufacturing by discontented workers to destruction or obstructive action carried on by a civilian or enemy agent to hinder a nation's war efforts and okay so part part of the reason why sabotebi everyone thinks about sabotage is sort of like a physical act of destruction has to do with the sort of folk etymology of you know where the words sabotage came from which is supposedly dates back to these like early 1800s French workers throwing these wooden shoes counts of bots it's like machines to break them and the problem is that this sort of just isn't true um like there's no direct evidence that anyone sabotaged machines by throwing your shoes into them which seems like kind of in a kind of inefficient way just grab a stick right like you you need your shoes to walk on yeah and the everything is that sabotage is it a people who put cats on trial they weren't always thinking into eight lines and that's true the why this this is the 1800s so hopefully we're slightly past the cat trials but what's interesting about this is the everything about this okay like sabotage like is a French word right the the French shoot the word for the shoe is to bot like it doesn't start up until like the late 1800s it literally just means someone who like it means to make a wooden shoe okay but it turns out it's actually it's actual origin is more interesting this um the term sabotage as you know like this sort of like worker action was invented by the French anarchist Emil Piguo Foucault Pouquet I don't it's a POUG it does I don't know how to pronounce that does that matter no one it's who she I don't know he sure okay I okay I feel slightly it's fine I feel slightly bad because he's one of the few good Frenchmen and some him him controversial statement him and Foucault the only flaw yeah yeah yeah so Emil Piguo is like he's okay I've just look at this guy this guy is extremely French yeah but he's also he's he is he is in the he's in the period of French cool which is to say he is he is he is an anarchist he is a cynic list he is okay yeah all of the shit and he like he invents the term sabotage as part of this report to the CGT's uh 1879 conference in some city using my can't remember so the CGT is a really weird union it means the CGT means like the the general confederation of labor workers basically um actually it's really funny because because because of how similar like French, Spanish and Portuguese are there were like 16,000 unions across like 12 countries that are named the CGT it's it's it's it's they're all either the CGT or the UGC because they're all just like confederacion and overall from the door or something yeah so the fresh CGT is like a very very weird union they're like they're the only union I've ever seen that has a various points been an anarchist union a communist union a liberal union and a social democratic union and it also like the the thing they're famous for sort of now is the fact that they sat out like every revolution that's ever happened in France like they're they're they're probably most famous for like telling people to like basically signing a pact with the government and trying to get people like to go back to work when May 68 was happening and you know I mean they usually but like the CGT the CGT is still around today they have like 700,000 members or something like the the the the the the second largest union France and I don't know the it's interesting so they'll go on strike for like pension stuff but they won't go on strike to like abolish the class system and sort of how I put it but in the late 1800s early 1900s they are a very very radical syndiculist union and Emil Pego who again like like anarchist par excellence is like their vice secretary so Pego like invents the events of where sabotages a way of translating basically the Scottish term that I okay I apologize for my Scottish pronunciation I don't I genuinely don't really have many problems with Scottish people I think the term is go conny basically which means go slow here's Pego from his pamphlet sabotage that's like his explanation of like what's going on here the first part of it's important to get a British pamphlet that's about what a go conny is if you want to buy a hat worth two dollars you must pay two dollars if you want to spend only a dollar fifty you must be satisfied with an inferior quality a hat is a commodity if you want to buy a dozen of why is it a dozen of shirts okay I don't know did people wrote weird in the early 1900s if you want to buy half a dozen shirts at 50 cents each you must pay three dollars if you only spend two dollars and 50 cents you can only have five shirts now the boss declares that labor and skill are nothing but commodities like hats and shirts very well we answer will take you out your word if labor and skill are commodities their owners have the right to sell them like the hat seller sells hats and the habitat your sell shirts these merchants must give a certain value in exchange for an equivalent value for a lower price you will have an article of either lower quality or smaller quantity give the worker a felt fair wage and he will furnish you with his best labor at its highest skill on the other hand give the work an insufficient wage and you forfeit the right to demand the best and most of his labor anymore than you can demand a two dollar half for one dollar the go conny consists that and systematically applying the formula bad wages bad labor so yeah basically what this is like it's it's it's a go conny is like it's it's it's a kind of strike where it's kind of like it's kind of like a slowdown or there's another kind of strikers name I'm forgetting right now where it's like you you you you like exactly follow the rules work to rule yeah yeah this it's kind of like a work to rule check it's basically like okay so you're not being paid enough so you just intentionally work really shittily and just just keep working slowly and badly until bosses pay you more and so the this has been a big thing in in Britain and to go like seize this and he writes basically like a paper like recommending it the cct starts using this as a tactic be sure he's trying to find a French word for it and he's like I don't know how to translate this and so what do you think so there's this sort of like well okay so here's where it gets messy because it's like there's like a couple versions of the story one version of it is like work as if you're being like hit with a wooden shoe so I like I wake up every morning and do my podcasting like and a clog just flies in through my windows maps me in this that's why Sophie it's why so he had to move yeah to get with the show there's there's these there's these sling shots set up outside my windows that launch these clogs right at my face every morning hilariously hilariously we are going to come back to sling shots in I hope maybe 20 minutes so there's this thing in France like so people people with wooden shoes basically generally are like peasants right there people from burl areas and there's this whole sort of stereotype in France that like in this period and like for the 1800s that's like there's like these people with their wooden shoes and they're like peasants and they're like ignorant and they're bad at working and like and so basically what bego is the other thing the other theory of what's happening here is he's doing he's like reversing this thing right he's like well okay here says here's this like stereotype like workers working badly and he's like okay no what what if we did this on purpose like what if we were intentionally just lazy and it's important to note that like and bego does this in his writing that like so she invests the word sabotage like he sure is held in to invent the content of sabotage here here here's from the pamphlets sabotage again sabotage the former revolt is as old as human exploitation since the day man had the criminal ability to profit by another man's labor since that very same day the exploited the exploited toilet has instinctively tried to give his master less than what was demanded from him in this way the worker was unconsciously doing sabotage demonstrating in an indirect way the irrepressible antagonism that arrays capital and labor against one another okay I'm I have to I have to do a call up post on poor poor gets poor ghee whatever that was very sexist he said every man that's true that's not the women should also be forced to work non-binary people should be forced to work eight hours a day hopefully more so the fact that he's just making men work is a little sexist garrison doing a Hillary Clinton there doing a Glenn Greenwald there that's right I'd love to see it ah weirdly weirdly I in terms of in terms of cancelling a Frenchman for a French dude for sexism like pretty mild knock it a lot at least problematic French man don't don't he he probably did do something horrible I just didn't see it when I was reading about it but you know such as such as the get the the guy you would invest sabotage um so okay so we have sabotage as like you know and this is an interesting thing about this right when when Pego is first like defining the word right like he literally is just talking about like labor slowdowns right and you know very quickly sabotage comes to mean other things and here's yeah so here here's again from this same pamphlet he's quoting this the secretary of a of a railway union who's like on strike for the right to unionize and this is what the fucking railway union secretary guys says with two sense worth of a certain ingredient union utilize in a peculiar way he declared it will be easy for the railway man to put the locomotive in such conditions as to make it impossible to run them yeah which uh fucking absolute absolutely based 1870s uh yeah French railroad union secretary ah it's great stuff it's actually funny because like so he's she's just like out there just like saying this and like every modern union has like a giant disclaimer and they're saying like we do not endorse the destruction of machines like we do not do crimes we are not crying yeah yeah the fucking base french guys like no no no no no no like we are actively threatening you to destroy like every locomotive in France if you do not let us form this union this is why this is why my organizing with the iHeart union is solely based on us planning future terrorist attacks yeah if we don't if we don't get our way the Hollywood sign will never never be the same again oh god i've already poured sugar into the gas tank of my podcast recorder great that's gonna work out perfect um that is one one one one unfortunately the the the the the the gas tank of the podcast is like my stomach so we're kind of it's it's it's just as a fact of it is actually pouring sugar into things yeah that's right why i'm hiding under you a bed with a funnel right now some sugar on the other hand garrison do you know what else will put locomotives in such a condition that will make it impossible for them to run uh the is this an ad break is this yes the the products of services that support this podcast yeah the the fucking the rail companies are making the trains not be able to work the trains are too long they are too long okay dynamite the answer is dynamite and we're back okay so and from here for the definition of sabotage starts to sort of expands um very rapidly uh here here's from the iww in 1913 about what sabotages oh god oh god i'm so curious sabotages is sabotage is a destruction of profits to gain the definite revolutionary economic end it has many forms it may mean damaging the raw materials is that uh destined for a scab factory or shop it may mean spoiling it may mean the spoiling of a finished product it may mean the displacement of parts of machinery or the disarrangement of a whole machine where that machine is the one upon which other machines are dependent for material it may mean working slow it may mean poor work it may mean misunderstanding packages giving overweight to consumers pointing out defects and goods using the best material where the employer uh desires adulteration and also the telling of trade secrets in fact it has as many variations as there are lines of work this is this is so fascinating because sabotage definitely now is way more associated with like earth first like elf tactics and this is like very labor focused like sabotages done yeah by the people who are working at the factory or place of production on the products that they're working on it's that that is extremely fascinating yeah and and and i think there's another thing to work is like there is this sort of physical aspect of it but again like that this was created as like like as a termo sort of like like anarchic like specifically like syndicalist political struggle right yeah and as that term like it's a lot of what they're talking about when people talk about sabotage is just like strikes and like labor slowdowns yeah and that that part of the connotation of sabotage has just like completely faded yeah no really get into sort of like how that happens and it's and it's so based on addressing actual material changes as opposed to like a lot of sabotage now is almost like performative like even like even like you left type stuff it does it does get a thing done like yes this thing didn't burn down but they're going to build another one it's all it's obviously it's it's for kind of like spectacles built into what the actual goal is and for this kind of stuff it's actually it's about like it's more like improving labor conditions it is and like there's a lot of this that is that is specifically designed not to be not like very noticeable like I mean there's there's a very common thing yeah strikes like in the US even like sort of like conservative truck strikes will do this thing where like okay so the truckers will go on strike and then they'll hang like they'll basically like hang like fragments of metal and shit from like the top of overpasses so that if you drive another truck under it it'll like fuck up the top of the truck and that's like that's kind of stuff isn't like it's not designed it's specifically not designed to be public right it's designed to be something that like okay like it's it's it's it's it's it's it's about like directly materially hurting the bosses yeah over like a long period of time not just like it runs like single action you do it and you run away and hope to never and hope to never be caught it's like no it's gonna work slowly for two years and it costs my boss like thousand dollars in profits I mean there's something like okay so I I can't talk about it here so I've been I've been doing this some episodes next week are going to be about Lula who's like the sort of like great uh like originally labor leader and uh it turns sort of like why am I blanking on the name of friend of the people of Haiti yeah to work in to get to that that's what he turned into there's nothing else yeah yeah no but yeah he he he he's a former president Brazil may be the next president of Brazil also maybe you know she he has this interesting sort of like hey she he doesn't want to labor organizing under the military dictatorship and he has this really interesting lot because in during the military dictatorship in Brazil there's a bunch of these sort of like like undergrad leftist paramilitary groups and like like his brother gets like a rested by the military and tortured horribly and he has this really interesting line about that talking about these contestine groups which is like okay like it made like if you guys had like talked to like the two thousand people who work in this factory instead of doing this completely kind of decently not even telling your own family that you're a communist like maybe if you talk to people like they couldn't have grabbed you off the street and just like arrest like and it's like disappeared you overnight because there would have been people there yeah and that and that's that's the thing like the all of this stuff like this kind of sabotage relies on like you and like everyone else around you also doing the thing and that makes it like harder to crack down on because you just you know you sort you have critical mass and yeah and then that's something that I think is is very different from sort of modern sabotage which is yeah based on these sort of like you either either like okay we're doing this and we're gonna get arrested or it's like here is like a secret cell in like the woods in Oregon and no no no no the people in this group will ever see each other again after they like spike this tree I wonder if it has its roots in like I don't know when these like sub-o people in France existed but like in Britain we have the Luddites at around a similar time who are sometimes seen as one of the original trade unions right who would break break boilers and industrial revolution yeah based yeah Britain still incidentally makes it a capital crime to destroy a boiler or like a break a waste yeah well it's a way of break because what the like the netludd is just like fictional leader of the Luddites right like this giant general who's supposed to come and they were like oh it was netludd about it what you're talking about they like they made it a capital trying to try it but to try and break up specifically that right to what like Chris is talking about like like it's it obviously like personifying the forces of labor as a giant general it's not something that that continued throughout space and time but that solidarity where where like someone in the factory fucked up the boiler everyone in the factory has something to gain from fucking up the boiler so as long as we don't tell anyone the boiler stays fucked up yeah and it's just like to go actually like specifically writes about while he's writing about the stuff the stuff in the 19th like the late 1830s but like he specifically writes about like the Luddites that that kind of labor struggle in Britain is like one of the one of the sort of like four-bearers yeah like the charcoests and the yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah so this stuff is sort of like yeah a lot a lot of this stuff is people is people in the 18 like the 1890s and like in 1900s like looking back on those groups yeah and yeah okay so I want to sort of pivot a little bit which is okay so we've mentioned the IWW and the IWW are the people who are basically like responsible for associating sabotage with the black cat and it's sort of unclear how this happens um here's how the modern IWW talks about in 2011 it which is like this sort of like sabotage cat picture it was probably conceived by IWW member Ralph Chaplin most famous for penning the IWW labor anthem solidarity forever who produced many of the IWW's early silent agitated graphics which themselves had close association with hobo signs described elsewhere in this gallery if I would have called right we cut that part although today the cat has a general association with the IWW sometimes even as his mascot its original purpose was as a code or symbol for direct action at the point of production specifically sabotage indeed the cat may have been may even have been chosen due to the convenient wordplay sabotebi possibly even the direct inspiration from Mel Blanc's characterization of bugs bunny often bugs bunny is often mispronounced sabotage sabotage sabotage a so this is really should be a like an anarchist sabotage icon though I subscribe in the section of sabotage must be emphasized that the latter did not mean destruction of machinery or equipment although I I really think that's partially like the modern IWW being like hey don't sue us like I this and this is the thing with the old IWW is like you'll you'll get you'll get like statements from IWW leaders who are like we are we're not the guy we don't like our strikers aren't the people who break machines there's another group of people who are like here also but who are not us who are not us who are do we do who are do we do we do all these things I I never do cry it's great stuff only my identical twin Harrison does cry yeah it's amazing how many symbols of industrial labor come from the wobbly it's like the raised fist also comes from the IWW right like it's incredible this global impact yeah I want I mean like I think there's a reason for this which is that like okay if you're if you are a capitalist in the early 1900s like this cat is the spookiest shit you've ever seen like it is terrifying like they are like groups of wobblies will just like try to step off a boat and people will and like this like sheriff's will just immediately start shooting them like it is to this day I think I think that IWW is the only leftist group in the history of the US outside of Puerto Rico that has ever taken in American city which they did in the I it was a very small town in the border but they they they actually successfully took American cities like dream the Mexican revolution um and mountain maybe the United mind well they didn't actually like that's the thing though they didn't actually like fully like drive drive out like okay yeah true yeah like like they like the the the WWE like actually fully like took over these towns it was like over the fucking run in this doubt but you know but what this thing that starts happening here is you get like like people are really desperate like there's still there's a bunch of houses like there's a bunch of like old mansions from this period like late 1800s early 1900s like in Chicago that are are all built in on line in one street and the reason they were all built that way was because I they they wanted to be on on the road to on the road to the fucking nearest military base so that when the revolution come they came they could run and hide like this is how scared peace people are and the like bosses start offering workers things to compromise that like most people today like think our socialism like they have like you start getting companies that have like enter that have their own workers councils in them like the like here here is here is the workers council will give the workers council a bunch of shoulder how the shop floor works like please don't over throw us like Rockefeller like develops the idea of putting workers on corporate boards like specifically as a way of trying to buy off workers and stopping them from like sabotaging their way to revolution and just like stealing all of Rockefeller's property for the working class and you know we've been talking about a lot about this in sort of like the American context and like sort of the French and English context but you know partially because the etymology partially because of like who's involved with like the Pacific Black Hat thing but like syndicalism which is the sort of like this ideology of using democratic unions doing a general strike to like seize control the means of production and in the class system this is fucking everywhere this is these these people spread like wildfire like I think I think probably the most famous syndicals other than the iwr the cnt in spain but like you know the Italian in 1917 1919 like cynic listen Italy like very nearly pull off a revolution during a period that becomes known as the Benio Roso or like the two red years they they they wind up being betrayed by the Italian socialists and that's how we get wicelini but shocked yeah who could have guessed but you know there are enormous syndicals unions like everywhere that there's there's these huge syndicals unions in both Brazil and Argentina and sort of bizarrely both Brazil and Argentina both have these sort of like general strike anarchist revolutions in both 1917 and 1919 yeah it's wild like the syndicalists are everywhere there's like there's syndicalists like uh tin workers in Brazil during Venezuela there's an iw section in South Africa there's like syndicalists in Egypt they're in Japan like it from this period from like the late 1800s through really even the early or so the early 1920s like these people are a pretty significant section of like the entire international labor and social movement and everywhere syndicalism goes this black cat goes with them now unfortunately as the 1900s wear on the this the influence of syndicalists it begins to weigh as a combination of both intense post-war war one repression and you know as as reaction sort of like red scare reactions to uh the Russian revolution and also the sort of rise of like Leninist Communist parties who have their own doctrines that don't like rely on sabotage and the sort of theoretical sense that uh syndicalism does and this this has like this this has a bunch of sort of malign effects on what people think sabotage is unfortunately but do you know what else degraded the use of sabotage as a political not theological weapon at that it's it's ads it's the advertisement that's still complex yeah it's not the beastie boys and we're back but wait there's still more sabotage because unfortunately you know as as the sort of like the syndicalists we've been is declining and like every single one of these people is getting shot uh there was waiting in the wings another type of sabotage that we've fact about a lot on this show and yeah this is ecological sabotage which I I'm okay I also see people calling it ecotage and like I'm sorry I love I love you all for us to fighters that is a dog shit word like not a word like a come on like this is this is not this is not actually a good word we could do better um it's also called monkey wrenching after the the the the the the work of of ecological activists that in veteran racist Edward Abby that's right and sexist don't let him off the hook oh yeah yeah yeah old white dude Edward Abby yeah he's a he's a very like he this is a very like Pacific Northwest kind of guy who said that's true yeah yeah it's like guy who's white really likes for us does not like round people uh he loves a fucking desert like the yeah yeah desert boomers love some Edward Abby they pay a azimmo app recently and like the amount of people setting like first editions of Edward Abby books oh my god hey hey without like entire like first first edition to like earth first gathering posters and stuff fun like thousand dollars to someone wrenching who's on an off road safari oh nice yeah that's copy the most this may be a first edition actually damn do you do you do you want to tell the crowd what this book is about that's a monkey wrench gang yeah yeah oh it's a group of people who have some fun times uh as people who travel around they play with some trains um and some diggers they play with diggers yes yes yes they were they they were diggers yeah I don't know he was just having fun times also there's something that I I did not know for a while but Edward Abby also wrote one of the uh adaptions of Lolita to play on stage oh shit I forgot about that yeah I just an unproblematic guy doing a romantic stuff he dislikes trees yeah well okay so here's the the the the one genuinely unproblematic thingy did you see he wrote this new or another book called eco well he okay so he's involved in the writing of this there's a lot of there's a lot of people who've been to this but he's involved in the writing of a book called eco defense a field guide to monkey wrenching which is this like unbelievably intricate and detailed guide to doing everything from like trees like he is rubbing power lines to breaking rich equipment to sabotaging vehicles and aircraft to freeing animals from traps to defeating surveillance the sinking ships to a section that is called only quote fun with slingshots uh great it's sure is fun even in monkey wrench gang like he goes into great detail about yeah how to start a caterpillar like bulldozer like no like a lot of it was like how to do terrorism but like in a novel I like it's fantastic yeah well it's like there's a whole genre of like of post-World War II French films that are this with prison breaks where it's like as much people want to be people who like been in concentration camps and like had broken out of them are making these movies that are like just really intricate the okay this is how you make a lock pick like this is this is how you figure out guards like a shift changes like this is how you like take out these boards it's great stuff and it's it's what one of one of the better kinds of things and eco defense like it's not the most banned book I've ever seen in a war that goes to yeah it's it's not okay so on the one hand like the FBI is in a weird position because they can't like technically ban it because the US has this thing called the first amendment that like you can sometimes win in court so it does it does it here's the thing here's the thing the eco defense handbook was not written by Edward Abby it was written by David Foreman yeah but he was okay there was a forward in the book written by Edward Abby okay that's the part of this one but he wasn't I think I think he was involved with the publication with it like he's somewhat like David Foreman and Edward Abby were friends they were yeah and boy everybody's they were doing it and Abby Abby Abby Abby Abby is less involved with this in so far as he like Foreman like the FBI tries to like entrap him for writing this book like all like all most of the people who like action brings sections to this yeah like all these people like people start yeah the FBI tries to rest them on other stuff because unfortunately this book doesn't violate traffic law so they can't to rest you for it and I do buy it on Amazon oh yeah it's on the anarchist library for free yeah yeah don't buy it don't give Jeffrey Bezos your money yeah so it turn on a VPN use tour and go to the anarchist life very I know it's in this category of books that are like okay when you have your normal band books list they they don't include there's two kinds of books they don't include one is they don't include books where it's like well they didn't technically ban the book but they tried to arrest everyone who wrote it and then two they don't include Alfredo Banano's arm joy a book for which he was arrested thrown in prison and kept there while the Italian government on orders from the Supreme Court like took every copy they could find lit it on fire and giant bonfires the other thing with the executive hand sandbox even if they did not arrest the owners I've talked with a lot of green anarchists from who were active during the green scare and they definitely arrested people oh yeah just for having yeah yeah like if like if you had it that was evidence that you were a terrorist like yeah it was something that like you don't talk about you don't put your fingerprints on it because having this book could get you in trouble like you don't like it's it's it's there's there is multiple ways to ban a book one of them being if you have it they're gonna try to charge you with like terrorism enhancement stuff yeah I also try to call a book context so yeah fun book yeah and so and like I think yeah calling it like I think with the so I think a lot of the stuff that people were doing that got called monkey wrenching or sort of like ecological salvage just just called eco terrorism today because people have to say well there's like a whole loop of this right because there's there's there's there's the FBI actually the green scare going like all of this is terrorism we're gonna use the fucking entire like giant like military apparatus you built up to like go after about people setting free animals but then but then like like at some point and this is a I think it's very interesting in the last sort of like five 10 years like people who weren't really involved with the original stuff decided that eco terrorism was cool and now everyone on Twitter just talks about eco terrorism all the time which is like they talk about an interesting term well they don't this is the thing those people don't do it and it's like come on like but on the other hand there are a lot of people like we should maybe caveat for our British list this that you absolutely can be prosecuted for having that book and multiple people have been prosecuted in the last two years in the anarchist book I mean you can still be oh yeah you it's like they they can't be from selling it yeah even if you're even if you're an American you can still get they they still gotten people for having the book like it's yeah it's yeah it's yeah that's that's usually the thing about how the censorship works right is it like like you you're allowed to be a capitalist and sell it but you're not allowed to buy it because you're a terrorist yeah wonderful stuff yeah in Britain you can't even think of the anarchist cookbook like people who have been prosecuted for having people and anyone should be prosecuted for the anarchist cookbook because it's dog shit anyone pretty heavy yeah I've always wanted to do like a deep dive into like the history of all the shit that's been blamed on that book yeah all the people who and it's 42 because it's not like the army literally doesn't publish fucking field manual yes you could just buy it a store that like has all the same shit like yeah yeah yeah you know terrorism is when we do it and not when they do it yeah that's right so I want to talk so like this whole thing is a product of like this like you know this is what sabotage returns into you right and there's you know and some of the people stuff that like is being done here isn't really that destructive like a lot of people like you know like people people like sitting in trees right there's a lot of stuff that sort of like civil disobedience that is like you know including this stuff but then there's also like but you know but the like stuff like spiking trees is where you I think you and especially like destroying construction equipment is where stuff you start to get the sort of like modern understanding as sabotage is like a thing that like an activist does to like a piece of machinery but you know like there's a lot of things people do like people sabotage like wailing ships but then also I want to sort of close the episode with this is that like there's a lot of people in a lot of other places in the world who do like who do a lot of stuff for ecological defense that doesn't get put under this framework where for example there are groups like that you're delta Avengers who are like okay fuck it if the Nigerian government is just going to execute ecological activists we're going to pick up guns we're going to blow up pipeline pipelines and we're going to start shooting and you know there's ground in between like the sort of like we're going to do sabotage and we're going to like do arm struggle like an Ecuador for example one of the responses you see to sort of like a taxidant indigenous land by capo state developers this is indigenous groups being just like fuck it we're doing an uprising and then tens of thousands of people like spend three weeks fighting fighting cops in the street until they stop and you also see stuff that's like it's kind of like okay so what one of the other specifically in France to do this all the fucking time I like one of the older sort of like workers like sabotage tactics is just like you kidnapped your manager and like like people do this like now in France like it's just like okay you're the manager you can't leave until you agree to where it depends it like but like when people people will do this in ecological settings well like a government the Senate government minister to like negotiate something it'll be there'll be like a my manager around and people will just be like okay like we're kidnapping you like we'll let you go when you stop doing this and that's good good stuff yeah and I think and I think like and these tactics also sort of spread like for example in Chile if you look at like if you look at their sort of like like Milton ecological struggles especially like indigenous the Puchet resistance like that is a place that like more than anywhere else have ever seen love setting construction equipment on fire like they they really they really like this lighting back hose on fire it's it's good stuff um but you have having sort of said all of this like the fact that sabotage is synonymous with sort of like property destruction is I like I genuinely think like a triumph of the corporate propaganda because the the original meeting of it right the in the original politics behind it which is this like very explicit class politics of like fuck it like if we are not going to get the actual like products of our own labor we are either not going to work or we are going to take it from you or we're going to make sure that you also don't get the products of our labor like that stuff's just kind of gone and that's that's that's that's very sad to be because it's it's a good politics and we need more of it and yeah all of this sort of is to say that workers have no reason to fear the black cat but bosses owners and capitalists live in fear your time will come happy Halloween happy how is the cut fences somehow I didn't somehow I never mentioned bolt cutters in here just sort of wild that's fine that's a high quality yeah it's actually for both cutters so I so something something I learned on a job once is that like okay so so re like barge razor wire is really scary stuff like it has like it has like anti-clotting agents in it that like I've like on the wire but I've gotten past a lot of razor wire yeah well but I mean the thing the thing about this right is that like you could just cut like it's actually really easy to just cut like the chains of the chain link so much so many people I can do many people are not very strong like you can just sort of do this and like in this and this is useful for a lot of things like for example you have to break down sections of fences and your lawn like yeah you could you could do lots of fun things with bolt cutters keep the kids oh tin snips keep the kids off your lawn this is one way to pass the ball and this is another the Frito Lay passed the ball challenge Frito Lay the official USA snack of the FIFA World Cup 2022 is giving you the chance to win two tickets to the FIFA World Cup 2022 final and make history by joining their past the ball challenge to enter just scan the QR code on specially marked bags of lays cheetos and Doritos and look for the golden world soccer ball explore the ever growing community then pass the ball to other soccer fans and play daily games to score additional entries in a chance to win custom swag and awesome prices so grab a specially marked bag of lays cheetos or Doritos or visit Frito Lay score dot com and pass the ball now for your chance to win two tickets to the FIFA World Cup 2022 final in Qatar no purchase necessary open to legal resonance of 50 USDC 18 plus grand prize entry deadline 11 10 22 entries received after 11 10 22 are only eligible for secondary prizes c rules at Frito Lay score dot com did you know that more than 70% of families with children under 18 rely on the mother's salary in the unfortunate event of a death you're going to want a backup plan wish box life insurance is the piece of mind you've been waiting for life insurance isn't just a plot point on true crime podcasts wish box life insurance has budget friendly and flexible plans to fit your needs as life changes the best part you can build your plan using their free wish builder tool and get a quote in less than 10 minutes wish box also has a compassionate team of wish granters aka their super charged customer service team who can go above and beyond to help your family handle your end of life finances and debts you can apply for a policy and cancel at no cost within the first 30 days it's super easy 100% online and plans start at just nine dollars a month get started now at wishbox dot life for full terms conditions and disclosures please visit wish box dot life let me guess unknown caller you could reduce the number of unwanted calls and emails with online privacy protection the latest innovation from discover will help regularly remove your personal info like your name and address from 10 popular people search websites that could sell your data and we'll do it for free activate in the discover app see terms and learn more at discover.com slash online privacy protection that's right it's spooky week it can happen here uh those ghost noises if you haven't realized and that must mean that today we are doing a podcast about mass graves what's going on with the fucks happening in the background there's so many what the sounds is running water we've summoned a fucking spirit where's that coming from yeah I don't hear it I don't hear anything guys you're just you don't hear it no it's gone now right it's gone now it's the podcast where we can Vince Garrison there's a ghost in the zoom machine it's okay I could I could like do I could do a lesser bad issue of the pentagram if we really want to it's fine I'm not worried I like the pentagram it's uh it's what I'm tattooing on my children oh nice yeah me too yeah are you haven't done the forehead though like a coward you've done that yeah no I mean elbow elbows the way to go so Garrison what do you know about mass graves um never been to one to my knowledge um I they they seem like they're not great usually they're a signifier that something something not great happened a little bit of an upsy uh yeah yeah can be a way to hide once mistakes certainly uh uh where would you have yet to guess where the biggest mass grave in a world is where would you go for well I know there's a lot of big ones in Canada uh but uh if I'm gonna guess yeah I think all those schools in Canada didn't they say yeah I would say like Russia maybe has the biggest mass grave I don't know that's just like off the top my head no it's not it's uh you got a guess Shireen oh no I know where the biggest cemetery is but I guess that's very different where is where is the biggest cemetery a rock oh really okay rock has the world and it's supposed to be haunted so oh okay well this one is not haunted but as far as I can tell it's the biggest mass grave in the world uh about 34,000 people um and this is in Spain Spain does not get enough credit for its mass graves in fact uh second only to Cambodia in the number of mass graves that it has Spain has about a hundred and fifteen thousand people who were forcibly disappeared and are still buried in unidentified graves but about 35,000 34,000 of them are buried in the place we're gonna talk about today which is the Vidad de los Caedos or the Valley of the Fallen so the Vidad de los Caedos is not only a mass grave but it's also a Catholic basilica it's also the largest basilica in the world uh and it was built by one Francisco Franco who was the dictator of Spain from the 19 from 1939 to 1975 and it was also his own grave until 2019 when Spain dug him up put him in a helicopter flew him across the country so that no one could like carbom or protest or otherwise uh death to great his corpse and buried him in another grave uh so that's what I want to talk about today uh the Vidad de los Caedos it means Valley of the Fallen right uh incidentally there's a film called Valley of the Dead which is anyone else seen this was it just me who started to curse them so okay just you just me more the shame yeah many more people should be enjoying Spanish civil war zombie fiction movies uh in which both sides come together to fight against the greater foe of the undead not actually a thing that happened so the Valley of the Undead yeah it could be called the Valley of the Undead but they didn't they didn't quite get that far uh some but the least spectacular dubbing I've ever seen in a film I've used to watching like English stuff dubbed in Spanish but I don't think I've before seen something Spanish dubbed in like a really cringe American English it's not it's it's not great no it's not but in the sense it is also great but okay okay in you know in in a sort of uh enjoyably bad sense but yeah it is it is very funny it's on Netflix it's free uh Malinazirus I think it was called in Spanish but Valley of the Dead in in English I see people should check it out if they want a different spooky film towards his Halloween uh so let's talk about the Valley of the Fallen it was built under Frankus direction as kind of this national act of atonement for the civil war and at first he said it was they're going to be memorial to both sides so that's like Valley of the Fallen uh but well first it was supposed to be a memorial to the martyrs of his glorious crusade against the Reds against Stalinism against Satanism against all the things that are bad according to Francoist but it wasn't really it was just a giant monument to Franco's national Catholic ideology which kind of fuses in HN the church in this one massive ball of terrible shit it's designed in the neoclassical style which fascists love fascists loves a neoclassical style because they can like draw these direct lines between themselves and the empires of antiquity right and except without the fucking paint because they're cowards and fools yes yes because they're tiny babies this is true yeah yeah they uh they never did the thing where they like bedazzle their statues like the the Greeks in the Romans did most ashamed someone should bust in there with some glitters spray paint and uh taught it up a bit I haven't done that unfortunately look return to tradition make your statues look cringe yeah that's how they're supposed to look don't worry that the statues do look cringe but unfortunately they they're not shiny uh which is disappointing it it's built of granite though which I guess is kind of a return to tradition uh it was built very near uh the Escodial which is like the resting place and and palace of the kings of Spain uh and that's because Franco wants to draw a link between himself and uh Philip the second right Philip the second was the king of Spain who at the time that he ruled ruled every continent that was known to European people or ruled territory and which is great which is not a problem of course uh it's in fact good and an inbred old Spanish dude uh was ruling over places that he couldn't really conceive of and had never visited him there are no problems with that okay so uh work begins on Vidalus Caeros in 1940 right it's the year after the end of the Spanish Civil War uh and Franco decrees he's gonna make this memorial to the glorious national crusade against the Reds and unbelievably he wanted work to be finished in a year which uh obviously he's not operating in like reality because he's a piece of shit but uh it it took 20 years to build right so he was off by yeah big construction understander Francisco Franco uh and like king Philip he couldn't plunder the entire uh labor in capital of the Americas to build his folly uh and instead he relied on the force labor of about 20,000 prisoners of war uh these were former republicans right uh and they were forced to build a church obviously uh many of them did not like the church and were not really very fond of building what is now the biggest Catholic cathedral in the world actually and it has the biggest cross in the world which it shocked me that the biggest cross in the world wasn't in the United States uh but i'm sure Ted Cruz is actively working on it as we speak uh or Joe or higher yeah i feel like if you like walked around my hometown and told people at the biggest cross in the world was a Catholic one they would immediately spend 20 trillion dollars building a bigger one yeah like i mean the only thing that could convince them to defund the police would be if we need a big cross yeah yeah owning the Catholic cross maybe we should put that maybe we should enter into the discourse on uh to social or something that uh franco of course is not the only person buried there right at right next to franco in the center of the basilica is his friend hosiumtoni or pretty more deady fella um primo died exactly 39 years before franco on the 20th of november 1936 uh and he died because he was killed by the republicans which is based on good um and he has this little gravestone there uh next to franco which of course has not created any problems after spain it's sort of began to transition to democracy when franco died right it's of course not a bad thing to but it's giant monument to fascism and francoism and nobody is going to turn up there and do a fascism in the years afterwards oh boy yeah it's a little bit unfortunate uh so every day at 11 o'clock a priest says a mass and and at that mass you can generally find old people who will sort of mill around for a while and then quietly start doing fascist salutes um which is not which is not great yeah yeah to be comfortable first yeah well you go yeah you gotta get like you gotta sample the vibes and then do a fascism and the vibes here are probably not great um they also have a choir and so they're only a choir of small children who sing why because of fucking what yeah because everything about this is cursed uh there's a film there's a film about these ill children who go to a quote unquote traditional school at the basilica uh which i can imagine it's great and they learn all kinds of wonderful things about critical race theory yeah so the priest also says a prayer for the fate of spain and the blessed martyrs which uh really really is wonderful and perhaps points in the direction of the complicity of the Catholic church in lots of the war crimes that we're going to talk about today second consecutive episode where the Catholic Church is responsible for the whole thing wow i can't believe the Catholics did anything bad no it's shocking isn't it given their history of being kind and good and generally respectful towards people they disagree with so true james mm-hmm yeah no problems with the Catholic Church so this particular church is hewn it's just a giant hole in a granite ridge right i took again a giant hole cut by the fourth laborer of prisoners of war uh it's called the valley of the fallen because today it houses the remains of about 33,000 people and this is what makes it the biggest mass grave in the world right the monument register includes many of their names uh and it has the motto caedo spore diosia spania so um fallen for god in spain which conveniently overlooks the fact that most of the people there didn't like a god very much and really didn't like the version of spain that's being presented here either right because the vast majority of them were Republicans people who would fought against Franco's idea of spain and civil war and and the bodies that came there really kind of came there in two distinct waves and so like i said spain has about 114,000 odd people who are buried in unidentified graves right the vast majority of these people are Republicans who were killed by Francoist forces but some of them are not some of them are Francoists Catholics Carlists other like right wing fascist type people uh who were killed by the Republicans right now the bulk of those people were dug up and identified by the Francoist regime in the time that he was in power and many of them were moved to the valley of the fallen and they identified there um but the majority of the people in the valley of the fallen were Republican people whose remains were taken without their consent from mass graves where they were victims of Franco's terror right and they were moved to the valley of the fallen to be some kind of like weird pyramid sacrifice ritual uh i i don't have a a complete grasp of Catholicism but i i certainly don't understand this shit uh to sort of i don't know make make Franco's temple more like spectacular and it's very strange is it's it's very cruel right uh i want to quote uh from the bbc article in 2011 that was written about one of these people Jorge Valrico so um Jorge Valrico canales was taken from his home in august 1936 in the middle of the night and shot by a fascist execution squad his town had fallen to the uprising and he had been singled out as a socialist in 1959 his remains were dug from a well and moved to the valley of the fallen more than 30,000 wardeads for both sides of transferred there on Franco's orders for me it's excruciatingly painful that my father's remains are in a place built to the glory of the victors in a military coup as far stock canales it feels like a double crime first when he was executed then when they moved his body without our permission to a place which is totally inappropriate so that experience sadly is far from uncommon right between 1959 then 1983 like i said about 30,000 of these graves were dug up um lots of these were like shallow roadside graves they were wells um some people were buried in graveyards and they were transferred to the valley sometimes they weren't transferred in their entirety incidentally uh they're like they these mass graves are not well organized um so like to to perhaps give some uh context here like these they began it spain began exhuming these mass graves in 2007 right there was a historical memory law passed and they're often just jumbles of corpses and bones right some of these mass graves contain like a thousand people right i don't imagine them being like hey we're going to do a mass grave now you know what i mean like they're just kind of digging a hole and putting bodies in it yeah yeah as fair to say yeah no one made a good plan uh which is unfortunate but uh yeah they like they were they would get all the people who they identified as socialist or of feminist or otherwise objectionable to their vision of Spanishness and then kill them all yeah and then put them in a hole eh because they considered them to be less inhuman and they seemingly seem to have like dived into the hole and then grabs some bits and pieces and moves them to the valley of the fallen at some point wait so what like how are did like like what what actually like how are like the bodies in the valley of the fallen like held like what are they just like are they in like cascades they just dumped them in another hole like no there are like there are like various it seems like there are various different like some of them are in these little stone there are like these little stone tomb looking things but i don't think that those actually contain the remains i think they're in these various pits uh so they just it's it's another map that they moved them from one mass grave yeah it's another mass grave that they build a sacrifice temple over yeah so they're now beginning to exume the already exhumed bodies front that so they're now digging up the the valley of the fallen right eh to to identify these remains um Catalonia has a DNA registry so if you believe that your it would be like um people of our generation's grandparents if you believe that your grandparents are in a mass grave they would disappear then you can register your DNA and they test it against the mass graves that they're exhuming so that's how they that's how they identify people and christian do you know what won't dig a mass grave and throw your grandparents in it i i cannot in exal mobile that's why everybody here yeah black rifle coffee company well i was just going to go to Coca-Cola but that works too that's three options three three yes the air and we're back hopefully there was no reference to mass graves in those uh adverts but we can't promise you that sadly we also can't promise you that there's mass graves they didn't talk about yeah that's probably more likely isn't it anyway enjoy that advert for Nestle moving on uh some of these mass graves have been identified by a Spanish nonprofit group called innovation and human rights and they actually have this incredible data set specifically on the valley of the fallen where you can look up the location of the corpses that are there right so like where did these where the of the remains have been identified from where where do they come three thousand nine hundred and two corpses that's about seventy busloads of dead people yeah if you want to imagine that and they came from this small town of tabagon which is where i used to live that's that's not a big town i was trying to think of like a california town to contextualize it by but i think most people would have heard of of town so small uh this despite being a pretty rural area the the camp to tabagon that can take contributed about 20% of the corpses that remain in the valley and that's probably because it's part of california right california was it spain is that is a multi national state so there are lots of nations within spain right california the bascon tree being the ones of people are most familiar with franco particularly hated cathalan separatists and so it's part of this ongoing punishment of california for like trying to leave spain during the civil war uh the franco is dug up the remains of the people they already murdered and moved them to a long way from california right uh the vitaloscaliosis near Madrid conditions for people who built the valley were pretty appalling too uh the workers and their families lived in these shacks according to archaeologists who exhumed them last year families lived in nine meter square shacks with no water electricity they made shoes out of old tires and they had no windows or no heating their beds were made of stone and they and their children suffered from malnutrition it's it's not particularly rare for people to have suffered from malnutrition in spain after the civil war this period was called the years of hunger but even so it seems like there was particular cruelty applied to these people many of whom were serving sentences for things like forming unions or forming a student political movement right like they weren't like they had done anything wrong that they were the victims of a totalitarian state uh so one of those people is uh Nicolas Sanchez al-Abordin yours um he was interviewed in a cathalan newspaper on nathionale uh and he talks a lot about his memories there um incidentally uh he escaped after a few months with the help of Norman mailer's sister yeah oh yeah based Norman mailer's sister she's incredibly based actually uh like yeah she she like helped him escape and then ferried him across the Pyrenees to France uh where he escaped into exile in Argentina live for decades um the only good well okay i was gonna i was gonna make an only good Argentinian exile joke but i it probably is actually genuinely worth mentioning that a lot like a lot of people who were Jews fled to Argentina too like right before we're two yeah and that's a huge thing and you get people like calling them nazis because they're fucking dumb as shit and it's like guys come fucking on like you if you can't tell them between a nazi and the people they were killing like please stop okay this has been my interlude about people doing this shit because oh my god yeah maybe maybe don't cast dispersions maybe uh do a little bit of reading first and so yeah a lot of people a lot of them end up in in Argentine exile actually ironically argentina also claims universal jurisdiction so what we've seen in the last few years is like uh Spanish historical memory groups trying to uh trying to get people who perpetrated crimes against humanity under franko extradited to argentina to be questioned which which is also very funny given that argentina has its own legacy of crimes against humanity right uh and spain does this shit too actually spain claims universal jurisdiction and we'll try and like extradite people who have done crimes against humanity in formerly colonized countries without spain has not faced up to its own crimes against this own population you know i i will say i am entirely down for like intentionally starting some sort of like spain argentina like shit fast were both of them like get pissed off at each other and start trying each other's war criminals that's really funny i would be but i would be even more impressed to see um are you familiar with who balfa without godthorn is is he that weird prosecutor guy yeah yes yes who tried to uh who tried to try us officials for crimes against humanity for the things i didn't want on a mobe yeah it would be outstanding i would love to see like spain of the united states come to blows of like their respective crimes against humanity it would be wonderful uh sadly and like in a rock too i think he like um what was it called the uh uh did they call it enhanced interrogation techniques that they were using when they were like electrocuting people and such yeah so like he tried to prosecute people for that sadly like everything else in spain he straight a little bit too close to looking at the corruption of this managed state and lost his position uh which is a shame uh he did some pretty chudley shit himself like he very clearly presided over trials where people had very clearly been tortured and was just like oh that's interesting to see you in the witness box giving this testimony i'm not gonna note the fact that you've like very clearly been beaten to shit with a night stick uh she's yeah spain a country with no problems famously um so yeah uh album nose escapes actually there's a film called uh los anius barbaros the barbaros years i guess uh the barbarian years uh which which um looks at his escape and he was one of only two people to be escaped but people died building the valley of the fallen right and then were buried there in this weird monument to uh to franko isn't uh so like i said spain really hasn't dealt with its legacy of um of mass murder right and it never really had a truth and reconciliation commission never really dealt with the amount of people murdered after the war um and it's really only in the last like 10 or 15 years that spain has begun digging up these mass graves so um and the pedra sunches and the socialist government um they've they've begun doing more to deal with this in 2007 and earlier spanish socialist government passed this thing called the law for historical memory and the law for historical memory funded and the recovery of the memory of the civil war right and and you can draw very obvious parallels between how spain has dealt with its civil war and its tradition to democracy and how the united states has dealt with its civil war right and you will see like there is um do you got do you know what voxes yeah they're like the insane far right probably in spain yes uh and so fucking cringe holy shit even the standards of far right parties like oh my fucking god uh god yeah i fucking uh do they wear silly outfits well oh yeah i would imagine so i don't i don't think i don't think there's ever been a picture of them like where they haven't been in like the weird is looking shit because occasionally some of the like spanish fascists were some pretty gay outfits and it's really funny are you talking about the the the phone legion the ones who were like yes yes yes if tom of finland created a military unit yes that is exactly delivering for me too yeah okay yeah they they are not so much like outright fascists as a as a fashy military unit yeah yeah but yes uh yeah it's i know yeah absolute thirst trap and just like if people should google photos if they haven't seen them it occasionally pop up on like uh twitter or something where people find these incredibly butch dudes who like like it's not that they've unbuttoned their shirts just so you know it's it their shirts are not equipped with buttons yeah yeah because it yeah like to be in that unit you have to be so incredibly buff that you uh you start buttoning your shirt from the navel down and which to be fair it is more appropriate in spain i remember like uh i used to teach in spain and then i taught in the united states and like coming back and being like oh i really have to change the way i dress uh to be appropriate for an american audience yeah the to get back to mass graves and away from tactical thirst traps the what spain didn't have right was like uh franko didn't get hung up so down from a gas station and beating with sticks in the face right more is the shame uh there's still time right his body his body is still available for beating uh you know maybe maybe it wouldn't be the worst thing but uh spain never really faced its past right so in 1977 an amnesty law was passed which prevented any criminal investigation into the crimes committed in the franko years um statues of Franco some of them were not moved until like the last five or ten years and when they were removed um it was like the government just went in in the night and scooped them up and no one really said anything and then they were gone and so like spain has only really really recently entered into this period like that we call it second transition and that's like it's transition from uh spain began transitioning to democracy in 1978 right but what we call the period after that it's more of a post dictatorship then like a complete democratic transition and spain was still processing as you can see right many of its crimes under Franco and it's it's really only begun to process those in the last few years so um that gets us up to the 2017 oh that i think of 2018 election of pedrosanches right in the socialist government and um their decision to exume Franco right so Franco's Franco's lying in this monument right to biggest mass grave in the world uh and on the day of his death on the 20th of february every year uh it's it's a gathering place for fascists right so Franco and Primo deli Vela both died on the same day and uh fascists and castlers both love this kind of weird spiritual magic shit oh really oh really yeah yeah i've heard i don't know there are some books about it apparently uh huh yeah okay so yeah it's it's said that both of them have a fondest for this stuff so then both dying on the same day is an extremely fucking cursed thing uh that that's led to sucks it sucks if you if you ever have to go near this place on the 20th of November which i don't recommend oh god i could only imagine that must be the that must be the worst time yeah because it's all because it's all of the nerdy is to not see like it's yeah it's like yeah it's yeah it's like if if like nerdy like not see internet people had a real life place to gather and just openly do fucking fascist salutes um yeah that sounds like sounds horrible it's a fascist with a calendar like no yeah yeah a calendar who's like into praying it's like uh yeah yeah really fucking really into praying yeah i'm just i'm just i'm just gonna say this if the if the anarchist were in charge we wouldn't be having fucking stupid cringe prayed fascist meetings uh this can be prevented see it too you can rise a third time uh sure sure but it is the nerdyest thing ever to think about a fascist like updating their google calendar being like yeah for all their spiritual holidays where their leaders died why do they always celebrate the day that their leaders died it's always the leader's celebration for us well fascist it's a death cult right like yeah that's like yeah like their leader dying is this is the moment when they finally express the pure core of fascism that's true that that's actually a really good observation that actually is more on the point than what it should be right yeah like immortalizing them on that day forever yeah i mean uh viva la muerte was just slogan of uh the uh fuck did the african the african army um like i have yeah i think it was spain for a legion actually like long live death and they called themselves yes yes that is their slogan they called themselves the um what's he called the fiancee of death yeah they're they're they're all gay because they're all married to death um sex which is pretty metal they're also kind of fasci but yeah that that does really showcase the whole uh death cult aspect of fascism yeah you know you know what is in a gay net chromanta again we can't promise okay okay i wish i wish we could advertise some more gay recommend gay neck romances yeah i would i would be in my element ah yeah i've just done an ad read for a couple of them actually i should have should have let you know i am the so jealous that's all that's all i want out of life yeah please enjoy these gay net chromanty products and services okay we're back i hope you enjoyed that as much as we did so the incredibly cringe and just boomery fascist serenibation on frankos death uh and prima der Rivera's death on the 20th of november always happened at the videlos caedos right they would turn up in 2010 spain band uh like fascist symbolism but this hasn't really stopped fascist doing fascist symbolism right including bringing their phalanx flags giving it the fascist salute um marching uh and to just generally doing like a cringe like where like uh rotc cos play meets the catholic church stuff um on the 20th of november of a year at frankos grave uh and it like there there are always flowers on frankos grave like you can't go there on a given day and not find uh someone like lamenting the fact that frankos dead and they can no longer just disappear people they disagree with right it's shit uh and so incidentally an amusing uh sort of side effect of this with that do you remember the storm area 51 like facebook thing oh i sure do yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah the right area 51 yep challenge from like last year or two years ago yeah in 2019 three years ago uh i didn't really do it a lot longer ago when you said that way it does it also it feels like a very 2020 thing uh yeah so the Spanish version of this was invade via delos caedos with the slogan that like if the state the state can't get him if we get him first so true so much like like like i don't think this was an anarchist attempt to steal his body but like massive respect if it was i think it was just some extremely online people doing something that they thought was and actually is funny uh which is yeah it like unfortunately it didn't really come to much uh because they planned to do this on the 20th of November 2019 and in October 2019 frankos body was removed from the valley of the fallen oh okay see this this this is the thing with all of these things is the same thing with the fucking stop koney thing like the the problem that all of these groups have if they want to do is they always set their date too far out like you gotta give it like at max it has to be like two weeks out because if if it's any longer than that you never mentioned the month you get fucking yeah you get scooped so look if you if you if you if you if you want to seize the body of a dead dictator and throw him into a canal you have to move fast and that's why i'm announcing that for for for November 19th we're all now we probably should not go to russia to have fun with trotsky's body should we yeah we're going to get trotsky's body in russia yeah i thought so i know i've seen i've been back from mexican i i've had i've had friends that have gone places to make fun of trotsky's body um Lenin's body Lenin's body's up for grabs leg okay it's just sitting there well maybe we could go get do do i think we should start small let's encourage the fans of the podcast between now and what we got right but now in 11th of november right go after pop a doctor valier get get him start you know uh then and then move on from there okay it is it's in Mexico i yeah you're right there we go closer to the sort of geographical heartland of our list in a case and we don't need to go into a war zone so yeah in the middle of november we're all going to be going going to Mexico road trip yep heel trip yep let's go you know i mean i wasn't there is something genuinely interesting here about the way that like okay so you you look at sort of fascism fast it sorry you look at fascism's death drive in the way that is sort of like crazy's monuments to death and then like you look at the way that every single sort of like like all of the say socialist regimes like it's not so much that they have a death drive but it's like they're like all of them like i learned this recently like i so i knew that they didn't tune that they'd like imbalm Stalin right and like well they involve Lenin they imbalm Mao i think they also they're also yeah they they they they i also wanted they did it to Ho Chi Minh too no yeah it's like they did it to like all of these people and it's like there's there's this sort of weird like almost inversion of it where it's like like fascism is based sort of on like you know like on on the sort of totalizing worship of death whereas Stalinism is like it has this kind of inversion of it where it's like it's based on like a kind of like eternal life for their leaders in this yeah also incredibly bizarre way i don't want to be like all of europe is determined by its previous like totalitarian religions but there's there's some things there's something orthodox about the way they've done the dead russian dudes so i i'm going to talk about frank as corpse a little bit and then i want to end with something else because i i don't want to just focus on spanish fascists because they suck and i hate them and i am sad that they are not all dead but Franco is so Franco's family won't allow to use the spanish flag on his coffin yeah so instead they fucking got the Francoist flag right the the old nationalist flag which because they have filth they didn't stand they carried his his coffin onto a helicopter they flew by helicopter to Madrid where the services presided over by a priest who is the son of leftemic colonel Antonio Tejero Molina the man who led the failed 1981 coup that attempted to topple spanish young democracy so and great to see this continuation of these elites right like this is a this is a country which has of course moved on completely from its civil war and dictatorship and on the positive side Franco is now buried with his wife and he is very near to Luis Cado Blanco who people will remember as a podcast alumni in spanish first astronaut and so i was going to quote vox but i won't because they fucking suck and now what you quote vox you should just like throw fruit at them i don't think that's like that's not an actionable threat right it's just sure sure don't throw like any fruit sort of potentially lethal right like like a large watermelon or something potentially fatal like just a banana or if you know the the the vox representatives like allergic to a fruit you throw at them get on their face then they die then it gets blamed on james we got taken into a years long lawsuit and then we all lose our jobs don't do that don't do that no blame someone else for that you can if you are directing the police to me in spain they can contact me by twitter dm my twitter is at at chop at cha po trappers yep that's where you can find me yeah i yeah yeah sell traps uh okay so of course vox make exactly the same bullshit destroying history argument and neo confederates make in the united states it doesn't make them anymore right uh because they're in fact wrong but incidentally someone else died um on november the 20th uh and that is one boiling ventora dolootie right um unlike franco he is not buried in a monument made by fucking slaves uh he's buried uh alongside other anarchists uh in mojwik in basalona you can visit his grave there uh it's very cool you can always meet interesting people hanging around uh his grave uh and if you're in basalona you should do it uh dooruti died uh in the middle of the battle in Madrid uh like so many other spanish anarchists uh he died uh it's a little unclear actually if he died because someone negligently discharged their own weapon into his back and which seems to be the most likely case or leading a frontal charge on a machine gun which which is how so many spanish anarchists died uh because they were so utterly convinced of their incredible like and they're not wrong either they were right about most things uh but like you get their willingness to die for anarchism was perhaps a little bit problematic well i mean this this is like a thing across the whole history of anarchism like like part one of the reasons the russian revolution went the way they did was that like it like the the sort of like first crop of russian anarchists like the moment the white army formed immediately just went to the front lines and i'll got killed and like Lenin and meanwhile Lenin and trot skier like fucking chilling and Lenin and like fucking uh Patrick grad being like yeah which exactly what happened in spain right like dooruti as castle ferrer all these people like get to the front lines and immediately start killing fascists mean while tanky people uh i was gonna say something else um uh like spending their time plotting and scheming to from becoming a completely fucking irrelevant political force in spain to taking over in a year and a half because they are the only people willing to provide weapons and and many of the anarchists are dead what were you gonna call tanky yeah i can't think about that i'm like what were you gonna call tanky instead of people jizz i i i i i i i i i i just it makes me angry and i was just gonna just uh that that is that is a divisive answer yeah never thought this dog's the word was easy etc yeah i was just gonna say scum or fill with or british swear words that i can't use on the podcast because of fans american people which is fine ever rubber yeah it's disappointing i don't want to be cancelled by work mob uh okay okay yeah okay you're not gonna have a heated all strillion moments yeah yeah exactly yeah nearly went full australian um which like i've done it before on television and it just doesn't end well um alright uh a in spanish not english uh which also a spanish word 20th of november in spain this year it'll be like what three weeks when people are listening to this some fascist shithead if you live in a town in spain will be walking around doing shitty fascist things um and people who live in spain of course very aware of this but i wanted to finish it said with another thing that anti fascist in spain doing november uh so on the 15th of november this year anti fascist all over spain will be gathering to remember 15 years without Carlos Palomino uh people might not know who Carlos Palomino is but i want to very briefly recap his story uh to finish up so on the eleventh of november 2007 uh Carlos Palomino and about a hundred other anti fascists got on the subway in Madrid to counter protest a right-wing rally in Lucera an immigrant neighborhood that's home to McGrid's china town today on the train on the way there he ran into a 24-year-old to manage soldier or say hosue ester banners uh ester banners was dressing close uh i don't i don't want to talk about the brand actually because we shouldn't hype market Nazis but um dig dig the clothes showed that he was a far-right skinhead right um Carlos Palomino notice ester banners takes offense at Carlos Palomino noting his uh Nazi clothes and stabs him with a machete uh she is yeah he stabbed someone else as well but unfortunately Carlos dies pretty quickly he was 16 years old at the time of his death uh he was the only child of his mother and he lived with his mom who was separated from his dad and his grandmother and it affected his mother as one can imagine pretty terribly right the loss of loss of her young son and as a result his mother has become a prominent anti-fascist activist in spain uh she founded the association of the victims of fascist racist and homophobic violence uh and 10 years after his death a thousand people turned out and a memorial to him um and ever like ever since he died every year uh you'll see these massive rallies in spain of anti-fascists um if you've ever seen do you remember like a year or so ago there was this video going around Triton there was a group of people uh chanting like a keyest animal anti-fascist us like here are the anti-fascists i i see such videos on twitter all the time okay i don't know i don't i don't know okay it like gained relevance among people who i've never seen engaging with spain in in any degree before uh and it was a huge rally so in 2021 thousands of people came out to remember him uh and i'm sure thousands of people will this year too like it did with spains like spains right for a long time tried to couch itself in terms of like the neoliberal center right yes or like the partito popular would see itself in terms of like maybe the Tories in Britain or the Tories are pretty uh uh uh uh pretty mental uh but like this kind of neoliberal european right yeah and it it broadly uh sort of wanted to see itself as part of this like post fascist european right uh but in recent years it's just taken this diss swing towards the hard right like vox has emerged and even the partito popular which would have seen itself as like neoliberal right has tried to like outvox vox and they're now like just openly standing francos and again and in this climate anti-fascism has also uh seen itself resurgent i guess we're an anti-fascist identity in spain a more relevant or more more common than they would have been uh 10 15 20 years ago something like that and as a result these memorials for Carlos to become bigger and bigger and bigger every year um so i wanted to end with a letter his mum wrote to global anti-fascist collectives in 2011 in our memories all the anti-fascist victims would always exist who were fighting for a world of equality dignity freedom and social rights were killed by the ideas of intolerance and fascism the memory will exist for all those victims who due to their different cultures religions or sexual orientations were murdered by the same murdering hands who hate those who are different now it's time to continue working against hate that it's the best tribute we can offer their struggles were not in vain we will continue the path although they are no longer with us in every action of anti-fascist struggle they're inside and in each and every one of our hearts which i thought was really poignant his mother is amazing yeah this whole thing fucking breaks me like i was that could this was a time when like i2 was being a teenage anti-fascist in spain uh and this is someone who's like almost exactly my age uh and uh obviously isn't alive anymore and uh yeah i'd encourage people to read more about him uh i abnormally share these events on on social media when they happen and yeah this is extremely sad and continues to be extremely sad because spain refuses to face up to its past dictatorship you can look up where franko's grave is uh organized a protest and execute it within two weeks and toss him in the uh in the river if you want to be very proud of you that is absolutely a legal thing to do and i would be prosecuted in spain but yeah uh it didn't any spain has prosecuted everyone from fucking clowns to puppeteers uh okay now it's now it's serious when you start coming out for the clowns is when i i started getting personally insulted we need to do our episode on clown block soon don't we we do i i can put on i have clown block right behind me okay yeah and then the british police will send someone undercover in your clown movement for five years no who will marry one of you and let me let me be a silly jester leave me alone nope not in britain it's a cry okay that's been a podcast do crimes this is one way to pass the ball and this is another the frito lay passed the ball challenge frito lay the official us a snack of the fiefa world cup 2022 is giving you the chance to win two tickets to the fiefa world cup 2022 final by joining their past the ball challenge to enter just scan the QR code on specially marked bags of lays cheetos and Doritos and look for the golden world soccer ball be one of the first to add your picture to the golden ball to receive a one of a kind collectible NFT then pass the ball to other soccer fans and play daily games to score additional entries in a chance to win custom swag and awesome prizes so grab a specially marked bag of lays cheetos or Doritos or visit frito layscore dot com and pass the ball now for your chance to win two tickets to the fiefa world cup 2022 final in Qatar no purchase necessary open to legal residents of the usbc 18 plus grand prize entry deadline 11 10 22 entries received after 11 10 22 are only eligible for secondary prizes zeros at frito layscore dot com did you know that more than 70 percent of families with children under 18 rely on the mother's salary in the unfortunate event of a death you're going to want a backup plan wish box life insurance is the piece of mind you've been waiting for life insurance isn't just a plot point on true crime podcasts wish box life insurance has budget friendly and flexible plans to fit your needs as life changes the best part you can build your plan using their free wish builder tool and get a quote in less than 10 minutes wish box also has a compassionate team of wish granders aka their supercharged customer service team who can go above and beyond to help your family handle your end of life finances and debts you can apply for a policy and cancel at no cost within the first 30 days it's super easy 100 percent online and plans start at just $9 a month get started now at wishbox dot life for full terms conditions and disclosures please visit wishbox dot life let me guess unknown caller you could reduce the number of unwanted calls and emails with online privacy protection the latest innovation from discover will help regularly remove your personal info like your name and address from 10 popular people search websites that could sell your data and we'll do it for free activate in the discover app see terms and learn more at discover.com slash online privacy protection welcome to the final spooky week episode uh hi well this is this is a good happen here and this is our last spooky week episode for this year and we're gonna be talking about something extremely spooky and Halloween themed rainbow fentanyl the newest deadly threat hiding in your kids trick or treat basket or so you would think if you are a frequent viewer of fox news or really any local cable news channel and that rainbow fentanyl in particular is troublesome because of its appearance this is treacherous deception to market rainbow fentanyl like candy this is every parents worst nightmare especially the month of October as Halloween fast approaches that was fox five news new york and d a special agent frank tarantino giving a press conference on the rainbow fentanyl scourge sweeping the nation it's not hard to see how the scenario became the new protect the children pearl clutching panic it's a natural extension of the police officer touches fentanyl and spontaneously overdoses lie that local news across the country have been pushing for over a year now but more on this later coupled with the old classic poisoned drug laced tampered Halloween candy myth that's captivated american parents for decades whether it be razor blades naples needles and tootsie rules meth in gummy bears cocaine candy corn or thc sour patch kids if you've ever watched any local news during the month of october clips like these should sound really familiar police in at least two wasgons and towns are investigating reports of possible Halloween candy tampering breaking right now at ten concerns about possible tainted candy in ocona moctonite police tell us they've received reports of a suspicious person handing out tootsie rolls on oakwood avenue right now police have no evidence that any candy has definitely been tampered with the world's leading researcher on Halloween candy tampering jule best a professor of sociology and criminal justice at the university of Delaware has found little evidence to substantiate Halloween candy fears jule best has published multiple studies analyzing the legitimacy of Halloween candy tampering including his research paper the razor blade in the apple the social construction of urban legends and his sociology book threatened children rhetoric and concern around child victims i have followed press coverage of Halloween back to nineteen fifty eight so more than sixty years and i cannot find any evidence that any child has ever been killed or seriously injured by a contaminated tree picked up in the course of trick or pretty so let's go back to a kind of where all this started the first report of Halloween treats being tampered with in north america was in nineteen fifty nine that Halloween a california dentist named williamsheen distributed four hundred and fifty laxative laced candies to children thirty of whom fell ill he was later charged with outrage of public decency and unlawful dispensing of drugs this is kind of like the only incident that says that this has ever actually happened with was back in the late fifties this is the only true one of someone like handing out actually laced candy to tons of kids now to determine whether the current tampered Halloween candy myths hold any weight jule best examined twenty five years of Halloween coverage from the New York times las angeles times and chicago tribune in his research he found that there's only been one confirmed death from a poison to Halloween candy and it wasn't from a nefarious stranger who wanted to harm trick or treaters the fetal incident occurred in nineteen seventy four after a texas man named Ronald Clark o'Brien poisoned his eight year old son with a cyanide laced pixie stick shortly after he took insurance claims out on his children o'Brien had reportedly given poisoned pixie sticks to his daughter and three other neighborhood children but the candy had not been consumed since then jule best said that in some instances kids tampered with their own candy to get attention or a friend or a family member played a prank that went awry or even a foreign object ended up inside candy during the manufacturing process and that's the majority of these types of claims that she'll see on the local news now Halloween can be a particularly dangerous holiday but not due to tampered candy the real notable danger comes from pedestrian deaths study published last year in jama pediatrics analyzed data over a forty two year period in the United States and found a forty three percent higher risk of pedestrian deaths on Halloween night when compared to the week before and after John staples lead author and clinical assistant professor of medicine and scientist at university of British Columbia said that quote we found that particularly among kids age four to eight the risk was tenfold higher on Halloween so yeah Halloween actually is pretty dangerous but it's from a car not from someone sneaking drugs into your kids candy last year before the current rainbow fentanyl scare the drug laced trick in your kids street was weed laced candy and snacks causing quote unquote THC overdose among children but shady marijuana pushers packaged them just for kids and if stony patch kids are mixed in it's hard to tell and unfortunately the black market is making it easy for children to get these products bençal and police confiscated what looks like normal candy during a traffic stop earlier this month but these sweet tarts they're medicated these sour patch candies have a twist and these cheetos are anything but all of these items are laced with THC by laced with THC they mean the forty dollar stoner patch dummies are a manufactured weed candy sold in legal weed shops across the country the fact that these novel TTHC products are incredibly expensive and in packaging covered in we leave doesn't seem to matter but yes I'm sure the black market is super eager to give away tiny fifty dollar bags of weeded redos to children dressed as the Avengers all right now the details on a big warning for parents tonight police officers and bençal and confiscated these items during a traffic stop it's candy laced with marijuana and now police don't want these friendly looking snacks to get into the wrong hands with Halloween coming up i'm going to quote from filter mag quote attorneys general across the country are participating in the annual tradition of urging parents to stand vigilant against free drugs disguised as candy on october 26th four state a g's issued such claims all using the same data and language which appears to have been generously prewritten for them by the department of homeland security ohio illinois can etiquette and in New York and Arkansas earlier that month the cry the dangers of youth THC overdose but without hinting at what those dangers might be except for new york attorney general latisha james who alone of the a g's swung big saying new york parents should be on the alert for deceptive cannabis products that look like standards and acts and candy but contain dangerously high concentrations of THC these products are especially dangerous for our children we've seen an increase in accidental overdoses among children and nationwide and it's vital that we do everything we can to protect our children and curb this crisis and prevent any future harm or even worse death now that's a stunning claim even by weed disinformation standards to date there's been no confirmed evidence that THC overdose has ever killed anybody adult or child so with all of that drug laced haloween history onto the latest rainbow color menace in your child's trick or treat basket as haloween approaches federal authorities are warning parents about the deadly consequences of fentanyl pills particularly about the rainbow variety that look like candy the drug enforcement agency first put out a statement on multi colored quote unquote rainbow fentanyl near the end of august 2022 claiming during that month that the dea and law enforcement partners seized brightly colored fentanyl and fentanyl pills in 26 states and this is how the presence of colored fentanyl was framed in the dea's initial statement quote this trend appears to be a new method used by mexican drug cartels to sell highly addictive and potentially deadly fentanyl made to look like candy to children unquote now obviously children aren't the biggest consumer base for these drugs since they have no money have very low tolerance and are unlikely to be a repeat customer but that hasn't stopped the dea from continuously referring to these colored pills as quote unquote marketing to attract kids as if there's rainbow fentanyl ads on nickelodeon or something it seems the only one marketing rainbow fentanyl is the dea itself and now news channels across the country this is from good morning america warning certainly one here that parents need to hear with Halloween coming up is about potentially deadly fentanyl pills that look like candy obviously the dea is an enforcement agency not a harm reduction agency and the way they've been talking about fentanyl the past few months has focused more on old war on drugs style propaganda with anti-immigrant drug warriors pushing the fentanyl for kids in narrative the dea is messaging seems largely targeted to parents and more intended to cause panic than actually work to prevent overdoses and it distracts from experts that say drug criminalization is what actually increases overdoses not these quote unquote candy colored pills mariah frances a resource associate with the national harm reduction coalition says such rhetoric is quote an active byproduct of drug policies that prioritize criminalization and political agendas over active harm reduction unquote as colored fentanyl can actually serve as an indicator that these pills are not prescription drugs the other war on drugs style scare tactic being used a lot recently has been promoting heavily publicized drug seizures and making highly exaggerated claims about what the busts mean to the illicit drug supply and public health michigan and ohio we seized approximately four million deadly doses special agent in charge orville green says nationwide that number jumps to 36 million deadly doses seized in just four months and they're in pill and powder form the source materials coming from china produced by drug cartels in Mexico calling them quote unquote deadly doses like yeah dude if you quantify your seizure by an amount that could be potentially deadly I suppose you could only measure in deadly quantities like I could do the same thing with with caffeine I can go to the store and pick up like 10 bang energy drinks and be I just got a deadly dose of caffeine like yeah that's if you're measuring it in that way sure you can measure it as deadly doses plus in that clip from fox to Detroit you can see the anti china anti-mexico angle that they're running with now obviously places like fox news has been eating the stuff up just during the first half of September the network mentioned rainbow fentanyl at least 66 times on the air over the previous month weaponizing the narrative to blame a migrants at the border and china for the supposed threat that the drug poses to poor innocent children and many of people's most trusted news sources which are local news outlets have contributed to the dea's panic by parroting the agency's statements as pure fact pushing the claim that rainbow fentanyl is meant to attract kids just at face value presented without any skepticism without any fact checking or information from independent drug policy experts here is a headline from a bc24 in tenisee quote rainbow fentanyl the colorful marketing tactic already in Memphis streets and this is from a tv channel in rolly north carolina dea warns of so called rainbow fentanyl putting children at risk and headlines like that have been a dime a dozen the past month never once bringing up that there's not a single piece of evidence that these pills are being peddled on the playground this is exactly the kind of behavior from news organizations that leads to misinformation and panics which distract from actual public health dangers and relatively simple things we can do to combat them fox news many local news stations and the dea itself has now joined in the long standing annual tradition of Halloween candy based fear mongering by baselessly claiming that parents should be concerned about fentanyl appearing in their child's Halloween candy federal agents with an urgent warning to parents about potentially deadly fentanyl pills that look just like candy dubbed rainbow fentanyl authorities are calling it a newly packaged poison as halloween is around the corner the idea that people are going to give away free drugs for Halloween which is what get wild concept of I wish I would go out trick or treating more if there was free drugs but this idea has been boosted by elected leaders and non DEA government officials florida's attorney general Ashley moody did a whole press conference saying quote Halloween can be very scary but nowhere near as scary as rainbow colored fentanyl that looks like candy and can be lethal in minute doses whether these drugs are being transported in candy boxes or mixed in with other common drugs and sold unsuspecting users the threat posed to the safety of kids and young adults is very real just one pill lacer's fentanyl can kill so parents please talk to your children about the dangers posed by this extremely lethal drug Halloween can be scary but that isn't the anyway senator rob portman wrote to quote we must have all the boots on the ground to interdict deadly rainbow fentanyl as halloween approaches which he posted alongside a fox news story about fentanyl disguised in candy packaging which is simply a comment tactic to smuggle drugs through borders which is why such packaging is found so often in drug seizures now nobody is planning to give away free skiddle fentanyl to little timmy when he comes knocking on doors and more quote unquote boots on the ground is exactly what law enforcement wanted when they started this lie the DEA budget has gone up every year and so have fentanyl overdoses but it's the won't somebody think of the children angle that's so irresistible to news media it provides a huge rush to our culture's actual favorite drug fear for our children it's the same undercurrent that fuels attacks on drag queens and trans people fear for the kids while a long piece in cnn explicitly said parents a young children should not overly panic uh w r a l peace caution that quote we all know how easy it is for children to pass candy around to each other as if like rainbow fentanyl is going to be shared around like m&m's at a lunch break or something like and one of the more silly things that i found people running the account for abc seven eyewitness news hid over 100 replies pointing out the disinformation in their so called eyewitness news story in their tweet that red quote hashtag breaking 12,000 fentanyl pills seized in wrappers of skittles woppers sweet tarts at lax sparking renewed Halloween warnings to parents so yeah they they they hid over 100 lies to that tweet basically saying this is this is bullshit you have no idea what you're talking about this this story again it conflates methods of drug trafficking with a long standing myth of expensive drugs being hidden in cheap Halloween candy and then by far the most ridiculous thing that i found it's just because it's kind of absurd and slightly funny uh lora trump on fox news did the most ridiculous rainbow fentanyl segment that i could find including spreading the blatant lie that police officers have indeed died by simply touching fentanyl yeah you look at the police officers who when they just pat people down and they find it if it touches their fingers they they literally go into shock and almost die from it some i think have died from it the the the idea that you could have a kid anywhere in america if if one child dies from this on Halloween i got to tell you we have to take action to stop this right now because parents are terrified and we have no answers what are we supposed to do they're going to go trick or trick so democrats ruin Halloween too this and they really do and everything so what you wouldn't know by watching these types of news programs whether they be fox news or just regular cable news is that the colors in these drugs have been added to pills for years the the real danger isn't that kids are being given fentanyl like candy it's that fentanyl is being pressed into the shapes of other prescription drugs like oxycodone and people will take a fentanyl pill thinking it's something else and then overdose and throughout many of these news stories they don't mention a narcan or if they do they mention it in the context as saying like this school in la now carries narcan that's how bad things are getting like they use the presence of narcan as like a bad omen which mean no people should just have narcan everywhere because it's great well more on that later but these colored pills provide such a compelling visual for anyone with a financial stake in continuing prohibition in a way the DEA is right rainbow fentanyl is a marketing stunt but one concocted by the DEA itself as a justification for its own existence rather than drug sellers marketing their product to kids using the escalating demonization of fentanyl to call for increased funding to law enforcement and border patrol and the need to convince a public acclimating to the idea of fentanyl that actually fentanyl is even scarier than what they once thought quoting filter mag again quote people sell drugs because they are economically motivated to do so no one except the DEA and its allies is arguing that it's a good business strategy to kill off your adult buyers and give free samples to children a previously untapped customer base because the fentanyl was never pretty enough and not because children do not have money the emergence of different colors that pressed pills alongside the traditional blue fentanyl pills won't lure in younger buyers if anything it'll help keep newer buyers safe unquote brightly colored fake pills that are clearly fake are helpful for people being cut off of their prescription and turning to street drugs to remind them that what they're getting is not the oxycodone that they're used to but something more potent and for more on what fentanyl actually is and to kind of get an expert opinion on these topics i interviewed Ryan marino of the resident fentanyl expert who's cited and basically all of these new stories so after this ad break you will hear that interview first can you introduce yourself so i'm Ryan marino i'm a medical taxicologist emergency doc and addiction medicine specialist so what exactly is fentanyl what's the deal what's what is what is the actual thing because people i know have heard a lot about it but they may be unaware like what this type of opioid is how it's different from other things why it's around yeah and i think most people hear kind of one side of fentanyl and so fentanyl is a synthetic opioid so it's a lot like heroin morphing oxycodone all those other things it acts the same way the difference is that it is more potent and because it is fully synthetic it can be made without the necessity for like large poppy fields whether all that stuff but it's it's very easy to produce it's used medically all the time it's like one of the most ubiquitously used medicines and very invaluable for its medically uses but in the street because of its potency small amounts can make a huge difference in the dose that people get and so fentanyl in street drugs has been the main driver behind what people call our opioid overdose epidemic and the kind of record breaking overdose deaths that we've had in recent years i i would like guests that one of the biggest reasons that people have heard about fentanyl is due to police officers and all of the stories from the past year of police officers spontaneously overdosing by either touching it getting too close to it breathing the same air that it's around can you overdose by touching fentanyl? you cannot so there is a patch that's made for the medical fentanyl so it can absorb through your skin if you try really really hard but it's incredibly ineffective even with the best pharmaceutical technology that money could buy this is still very slow very ineffective touching fentanyl cannot cause an overdose and the way it exists on the street particularly you're never going to encounter the form or quantity that you would need to cause an overdose so these stories are nothing more than urban legends and misinformation why are people having these effects then right because there's videos of the people like fainting and falling over and they're like this police officer needed to receive Narcan and was rushed to the hospital like what what what's actually happening there because people obviously look like they're experiencing something but it doesn't really match up with what fentanyl is able to do so it's a really interesting phenomenon and if you look at any of these stories any of these videos you can very clearly see people having real symptoms i'm not trying to cast any doubt on that but what's reported and what's shown is actually the opposite of what fentanyl would do and so people report feeling very anxious breathing very rapidly having their heart race i'm all of the things that fentanyl would actually cause the opposite and so i can only speculate on what's really happening there but my guess would be that this is some sort of panic reaction related to the fact that people are hearing about this every day hearing that fentanyl is killing hundreds of thousands of people hearing that other people have just dropped down from being near it there's also this related concept called the no-sebo effect which is kind of like the dark side of the placebo effect if you will and so basically it's just that if you believe something so strongly you can have very negative real symptoms from it and the way you would treat this would be with a placebo which in these situations Narcan is a placebo so the fact that Narcan works for some of them kind of suggests that there is some sort of placebo no-sebo effect going on i know that fentanyl has become more common since the pandemics rough you i would say probably starting in california is what most of most of it looks like in terms of like the whole opioid epidemic thing like why is this become such a big problem in the past like three years specifically like with fentanyl getting into so much of the supply well so fentanyl started getting cut into heroin um particularly on the east coast like pretty early on probably like 10 or more years ago now and took a while to make its way west it seemed like california actually had different heroin and particularly like black tar heroin was more prevalent there which can't be as easily replaced with a powder for anyone who's familiar with heroin um but now i mean there is really no like other opioid supply so things like heroin are almost impossible to come by just because it doesn't exist in the world the like oxycodone oxycontin all of these pills the people used to sell on the street also just don't exist because they're not being prescribed anymore some of them aren't even being manufactured anymore um and so what's left is really when you take away the supply but you don't address the demand is something's got to fill it and fentanyl is there fentanyl is really easy to make its relatively cheap and simple to produce and so you can press it into pills that look like oxycodone you can mix it up into a powder that looks like heroin and gives people similar effects but because it's so much more potent which it's like 50 times more potent than heroin um so i mean if you think just in terms of percentage wise like a one or two percent difference could be double the dose when you compare it to something um so that's where the trouble comes in and then with the rainbow fentanyl angle the the DA has been talking about how rainbow fentanyl is this new thing to market to children they they they used to were like market a lot um being like this is like some advertising job done by big drug to to sell to sell to kids um it's first off like why would these drugs be pressed into different colors like with with with with with the fentanyl pills being in you know the multi-colored collections like what's the actual purpose of that well so that's a great question and i don't know what to make of whatever the DEA is doing and why they make these announcements because there's there's no evidence behind it um they have provided no evidence and their own press releases going back years show multiple colors of fentanyl pressed pills um my best guess and in talking to like people use drugs people who work in the same space across the country is that pharmaceuticals come in different colors and so these probably were mostly just to mimic things like oxycodone tabs um also i mean dealers like to add their own kind of like marked the things in terms of heroin will come with different like stamps on the bag so probably something similar there but also i mean people just tend to like things that are are colored more than like a grainy beige pill um if they comes with like a pink or a green on it it's gonna be more desirable but there's no evidence whatsoever that this is intentionally marketed towards children um children are not good clients for for drug dealers these are just things that adults want uh the american adults are the ones buying these drugs i guess can you speak more on how the DEA's rhetoric's around this thing especially it's been like escalating the past few months leading up to halloween right there's been a lot of heavily publicized seizures saying like we seized enough fentanyl to kill 500 million people or something like they're like they they frame it in this really like a bombastic way and then you're you there's a lot of stuff about talking about how it's it's being hidden in like candy boxes and they're gonna be giving it out on halloween to your kids and like what does the DEA do it like what what's their incentive for talking about it in this way and obviously i can't like ask you like what what what is the DEA doing Ryan why are they doing this but like from your perspective like like this rhetoric doesn't seem very helpful in terms of actually preventing overdoses it seems to be kind of just fear mongering um it's specifically with stuff like like like like uh like with the drugs being hidden inside candy boxes there's reasons for why people might do that to smuggle them but with all of the rhetoric that the DEA has been been pushing like is it like actually dangerous the way that they've been talking about it in terms of like it's not it's not talking about harm reduction it's not talking about ways to actually help it's just like scaring parents it seems yeah i mean i think the DEA is solely a law enforcement agency there is no one there involved in the treatment of addiction in terms of like addiction science chemistry no one there who is like a former drug user even um so their motives are always suspect to me and i think with this rainbow fentanyl press release uh they put it out there was no evidence behind it that none of it made any sense um the term rainbow fentanyl wasn't even searchable before august of 2022 when the DEA made this announcement which is this kind of crazy to think about um and then within six weeks of that announcement us congress has pledged to give them hundreds of millions more dollars to quote unquote flight rainbow fentanyl which is again a thing that does not exist um and i mean looking back the DEA budget has gone up year on year hundreds of percent since like the 1980s but even within the context of our opioid overdose crisis has gone up year on year for all of the past i don't know however many years you want to look at it their department size grows every year uh and overdose deaths go up every year so whatever they're doing is obviously not working um and like you said i mean they particularly ignore uh in distract from things like harm reduction from real evidence-based measures and kind of public health investments that we could be making and when it comes to hundreds of millions of dollars extra being thrown at the DEA for rainbow fentanyl and we think back to what was it just like last winter uh when the current administration set aside i think thirty million dollars towards harm reduction being the first time the federal government has put aside dedicated money for harm reduction and that created its own kind of like moral panic backlash as well um but thirty million dollars was the first and only federal investment in harm reduction and yet three hundred million dollars can be drummed up at the drop of a hat for an invented uh crisis so it does really kind of beg the question of like what are we doing here and why are we continuing to do things that don't work what do you wish people knew that would help them maybe combat some of them misinformation that gets peddled by like lots of like local tv stations are very quick to cover these types of stories very quick to cover the stories of like your local cop just almost died at the school by getting within five feet of a fentanyl vaporizer or something like like what what do you wish people knew to help like combat this type of stuff i mean it seems like common sense is just not common when it comes to drug topics if the police were saying that people were giving out guns for Halloween if they were saying that they found uranium or plutonium in a car and four officers went down that would require serious consideration and fact checking before it ever was reported on or accepted and so i mean i think when it comes to this idea that someone was in a car with a bag of fentanyl and nobody in the car was affected but the officers outside the car all went down like just basic kind of critical thinking or applying any lens of skepticism i mean makes all of these narratives fall apart so that would be i mean my biggest est in people watching these stories i feel like the onus of responsibility really should be on the ones who are reporting it not to just necessarily take the words of law enforcement as authority on every subject especially when they do not have the background to be authorities on how things like fentanyl work it's before we close out i would like to talk a little bit about narcan like what it is what it does and where people can get it so narcan is amazing i cannot say enough positive things about narcan i mean i'm not like a religious person or anything but if miracles were to exist narcan is literally a miracle and especially if anyone has ever seen it in action but so what it is for people who don't know narcan is the brand name nasal spray of naloxone which is the antidote or the reversal agent or anyone experiencing an opioid overdose including fentanyl and there are no opioids that narcan does not work on it isn't going to reverse every situation certainly but it is a a perfect antidote so to speak or as close to one as we have ever had and so i mean if you are worried about someone experiencing an overdose it's something that you can carry or have nearby and anyone can give it it was the nasal spray was actually designed with taxpayer dollars interestingly enough so that an untrained child could administer it and so it's very easy to use it's very easy to obtain for the most part nowadays it's available and i think almost every state without a prescription you can just go to your pharmacy and ask for it if you can't get it from like your local health department or another harm reduction organization but i have it in my car in every work bag i have i take it with me when i travel it's something that people can carry and really makes a big difference and obviously you don't want to experience or come across someone having an overdose but it's much better to have with you if you need it then to be unprepared and have to kind of deal with the consequences and i think this far into this like opioid overdose crisis that the United States and now most of the world has been experiencing most people can probably think of someone who they know who they'd lost to overdose or similar situation and you don't want to kind of be stuck regretting it later well thank you so much um where can people find you on the internet so i'm mostly just on twitter at ryan marino just my name one word all right well thank you so much for coming on to talk to us about the the latest scourge hiding inside your kids Halloween basket uh thanks gerson so with that that does it for us today here at it could happen here um have fun trick or treating um if you have any drugs uh good for you i'm happy you got this for free watch out for cars uh those are actually dangerous and uh thanks thanks to everybody who attended the recent it could happen here live stream thank you so much for coming i hope to get through more questions but we went a little long because there were so many people but i i will i will answer two more questions here did you know that the latest my little pony movie has a literal xenophobic fascist dictator as an antagonist no i did not know that but it's not surprising based on what i know about the recent my little pony media and then um what do you think is the most important thing somebody can have for a disaster or chaos preparedness my personal answer to that would probably be friends friends are really useful um books on how to like make stuff and like how to like you know basically survival books because you don't want to count on having the internet and then i don't know like water water filters water purification tablets those would be those would be my picks but i hope everyone has a happy happy Halloween and that doesn't hear for i could happen here closing out our latest spooky week hey we'll be back Monday with more episodes every week from now until the heat death of the universe it could happen here is a production of cool zone media for more podcast from cool zone media visit our website coolzonemedia.com or check us out on the iHeart radio app apple podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts you can find sources for it could happen here updated monthly at coolzonemedia.com slash sources thanks for listening do you want to win two tickets to the FIFA world cup 2022 and guitar free to lay is giving you the chance to make history by joining their past the ball challenge add your picture to the golden world soccer ball then pass the ball to fellow fans to score additional entries scan the QR code on specially marked bags of lays cheetos or Doritos or visit free to layscore.com and pass the ball now no purchase necessary open to legal residence of 50 usdc 18 plus grand prize entry deadline 1110 22 entries received after 1110 22 are only eligible for secondary prizes zeros at free to layscore.com hi i'm brook shields and my new podcast now what dives deep into life's maker break moments those things that stop you in your tracks and leave you wondering now what do i do you know i had to learn how to walk again i realized i don't think we should get married listen to now what with brook shields on the iHeart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts hey i'm jolstein i want you to close your eyes and imagine a pocket watch it's moving from side to side you're getting very sleepy great now that i've hypnotized you against your will you're going to start liking long form journalism like so much you're going to listen to a podcast where the host interviews a writer about their long form story every week i'm that host just listen to story of the week on the iHeart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcast