Behind the Bastards

There’s a reason the History Channel has produced hundreds of documentaries about Hitler but only a few about Dwight D. Eisenhower. Bad guys (and gals) are eternally fascinating. Behind the Bastards dives in past the Cliffs Notes of the worst humans in history and exposes the bizarre realities of their lives. Listeners will learn about the young adult novels that helped Hitler form his monstrous ideology, the founder of Blackwater’s insane quest to build his own Air Force, the bizarre lives of the sons and daughters of dictators and Saddam Hussein’s side career as a trashy romance novelist.

It Could Happen Here Weekly 52

It Could Happen Here Weekly 52

Sat, 24 Sep 2022 04:01

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My name is Lauren Over, and in addition to being a charming podcast host, I am also a newly diagnosed autistic person. My new show, The Loudest Girl in the World, is all about my weird winding path to diagnosis. My decision at age 42 to finally get evaluated for autism. Listen to The Loudest Girl in the World on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey there, I'm Scott Rank, host of the podcast History Unplugged. Now it really is a dream come true to get paid to talk about history without all the stress while still being able to make a living. And I did it with speaker from iHeart. Not only do they make it super easy to monetize my podcast, but ad revenue is three to four times higher with speaker than with any other host I've worked with. So if you want to turn your passion into a podcast and give this a try, visit That's spr Get paid to talk about the things you love. Introducing The Biztake, your all things music, business, and media podcasts. Join me, Joe Wasleski, and my cohost Colin McKay, Everyone's in, where we've discussed the breaking news, changing the music industry. And what your favorite artists and creatives are up to, listen to new episodes of The Biztake, every Wednesday on the National Podcast Network, available on iHeart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode of the week that just happened is here in one convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to listen to in a long stretch. If you want, if you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, there's going to be nothing new here for you, but you can make your own decisions. Welcome to assassination week. Keep you bang, bang, time lexplosive device, GFK, etc. Hello, welcome to assassination week. I hope you like that intro from our good friend, and we commissioned to do that intro from. So big props to them for giving us like 10 seconds of their time to record that intro. Wow, it's been so long since we've been planning to do this. Yep, but here we are talking about killing people. It's great because would be first thought of assassination week. We're like, how are we going to fill five episodes there? And then there's like somebody more assassinations happen. There were two the next day. Yeah, we've decided to stop imagining things into the ether. Yeah, and so maybe assassination month is coming. Who knows? Hey, look, here's the thing. If people keep getting assassinated, we will do more assassination episodes. That is the way it works. Yep, that's that is sadly part of our job. So we've already done one, I guess we did we did Shinzo Abe a little bit, but we're coming back to him. We're going to do we're going to do Shinzo Abe too. We have a lot more context information about these assassinations now, but that is later this week. So we have we have five episodes all about assassinations, most of which have happened or tried to happen this year. Most of these are going to be pretty, pretty topical. Yeah, mine is not because the first person I am. Look, we got to we got we got we got we got we got to start with this doorical assassination. We can't we can't completely have it be just randomly jumping back and forth between times. There has to be some kind of logic. Yeah, well, assassination is allergic, but yeah, today we're talking about Eta, a bass nationalist leftist group, and more specifically, I guess they're operación agro, the killing of Luis Carrelo Blanco in Spain in 1973. It's like obviously not very very current. It's often pointed to as like a very influential assassination, right? One that made a difference and made a change. Often it's called the only thing that Eta ever did to advance the cause of Spanish democracy. I think like this is not a I'm sorry if you think that they're like based leftist terrorists. This is not a generally as as an organization. We don't like people who made a journalist. That's one of us dances. And so there's going to be a little bit of context around this that we need to give first. So maybe if we kick off with who they are and then we can talk about that assassination in particular. How many are folks do we think with Eta? What do people know about them in the US? Not at all. Yeah, people, well, okay. I think they're famous for this assassination and for having literally the worst outfits I have ever seen in my entire mouth. That's like that. That the combination of like the face mask and the beret is like one of the most unfortunate things I've ever seen. It is hideous. It is you got just where the mask. It's cooler. It's batshit. It's awful. Oh, truly dog shit. Okay. Chris, coming with the fashion police early on. I say where were you on? I think you all look great. And really alienating our ski mask and beret audience right at the start. So if you've managed to you know, stick around through that hate speech, we're going to talk about Eta. They do, yeah, they do like to wear a ski mask. It's part of an aesthetic, isn't it though? Like there's an aesthetic of like, I guess 80s, 1980s terrorism that is like like Woodland Patton kind of DPU camouflage, DBM camouflage, a cheap black ski mask, balaclava and a berry. Like sometimes you can pick two of those things, but it's definitely like a vibe from that time period. I wonder why none of these groups work. It must have nothing to do with the fashion. To be fair, the zappetistas big ski mask. Maybe it's the bubble. Maybe the bubble is what sets them. Yeah, no, it's the fact that, yeah, you don't wear the beret on the ski mask. This is 70s look cool because they just wear the mask. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I think we're we're united now believe that the zappetistas look cool. And in many ways are cool, in fact, but we're not talking about them today. We're talking about that. So it's an acronym, right? It's an acronym in Scherra or BASC. I don't I don't speak BASC. It's a very hard language for me to learn at least. I'm not going to say it's a hard language too long because I think it depends on who you are. But it is one that I have historically struggled with understanding. It does have a generous smattering of X's. So you know, if you're seeing it out there, good luck to you. I will try and pronounce things as respectfully as I can. I spent a lot of time in the BASC country by grace saying I really, really love BASC people. They're very nice. I enjoy their food and their cider and their country side. But today we're talking about this group Esco Eta. It stands for Yuskadi Tarskata Suna, which means like BASC homeland and liberty. They were going to call it Ata, but in certain back down dialects that means duck. So they moved away from that. No, it has been so much funnier. Yeah, yeah, you've been ducked. But they didn't do that. They right from the get go, they were about like this dual process, right? Of politics and political violence. Their slogan means keep up on both sides. And their logo is like a snake wrapped around an axe. The snake is politics and the act is acts is I guess political violence, terrorism, whatever you want to call it. And over the years of action, they killed 829 people. So they're a pretty serious terrorist group, right? Like I can't, I don't know how many people of the IRA killed, but I'm thinking of groups in there. I don't think it would be that many. They killed like, I think they killed like over a thousand. Okay. Well, I mean, I say like the entire troubles killed like 3,500. So it's like a not his nificent fraction of that. Yeah, I'd mean the British government did a decent amount of that. Oh, definitely. Yeah. Loyalist. Yeah, but like, like it's not an insignificant fraction of the total number of people who died in the troubles. So they're not like nothing. No, but like it's only etto up there. And look, this is much of a similar thing as we're going to see right where the Spanish state killed a lot of people too. And sort of armed groups acting in sort of coalition with the Spanish state. It's the safest way to say that. But certainly with the complicity of the Spanish state, played a large part in this dirty war that etto conducted with the Spanish state, right? And to understand them, you have to understand a little bit about Basknashelism, early Basknashelism, we can like find the guy who really constructs the idea of a Basknation, right? It's Sabi Neu Aranya is the guy. He takes what is like a language. It's a very old language, right? Predates Latin and places where that language is spoken and takes it from like these are the areas where this language is spoken to like this is our nation. And all nations are created, right? Like nations don't come from the primordial suit, like we don't evolve into one nation or another. They're not in fabrication. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. They're constructed by like entrepreneurs for identity, which were elites to some kind of false consciousness, one might say, to maybe disrupt people from other things. But that's the right zapatistas watch it. That's it. Yeah, yeah, we were coming for you with a work mob. We're going to cancel you. Lations begin to exist when religion loses a claim on universal truth, right? This is like Benedict Anderson speed run. We don't need to go into the history of nationalism, particularly. It's important people to know where the Baskland is. So the Baskland is in the northwest of Spain and the southwest of France, right? It's these provinces where historically they're mountainous provinces. People there were often shepherds. You'll often find Bask people in the United States, like, go and why not doing sheep herding. And that's their sort of historical images themselves. And they speak this Bask language, right? So, Eta come onto the scene as a Bask nationalist leftist group. Like they sort of have some elements of Marxism, but they're obviously like nationalist. They don't center Catholicism, which is what previous Bask nationalism has done, right? Previous Bask nationalisms have been elite constructs that centered language, poetry, and Catholic identity. Eta don't do that. That's where they're slightly better. Yeah, right. They're better than like the callists who are like, things went wrong when Spain moved away from this line of royal succession. And we need to go back to that. And like extreme religious totalitarianism, I know, monarchy. They're better than that. Eta feel pretty comfortable saying that. And they've done some cool stuff. They used to kidnap bosses who refused to negotiate with striking workers, which like, I'd know, watch out, rail company owners. But they definitely have a calleptis lean, right? They have this sort of pan third worldest idea or this pan sort of colonized people idea. They begin assassinating people when they take revenge for this guy who's called chubby estiabadieta. You can look up that name if you want to see some X's in a name, but they kill the local chief of police, right? What happened is estiabadieta and this other guy were killed by a policeman. The police stopped them at a road block. They run away. The police, the police shoot them in response. They kidnap the local chief of police who has probably been torturing people. Right? Like, you have to understand that all this is happening in the context of a Spanish state, which is extremely violent and repressive. And they killed this guy, right? And with this, does this all do Franco, right? Yes, no, they begin under Franco. Right? So they, and their support probably peaks under Franco, right? Like, what we're going to see is that they are somewhat integral to not bringing down the Franco regime. And in a sense, Spain never does bring down the Franco regime. Right? I want to get into that a little bit. But it is destabilizing the Franco regime. And they certainly there was more support for this kind of political violence when the state is so obviously, like, undemocratic, unjust and incredibly violent towards people, right? So they, when they're killing members of Zaguadria Civil, these are people who are torturing prisoners, right? Etta prisoners pretty often when they're captured turn up torturing court, like very obviously, that they have been victims of beatings and physical violence, right? And a lot of things you'll see, they also kidnapped this guy. I forget it. He's one of the founders of Vox and they kept him in a cellar for months and months and months and months. They, uh, look, I don't, I don't like Vox, but I also don't like locking people in cellars. So two things can be bad. And Vox is a right wing populist Spanish party if people aren't familiar. They also did a lot of extortion. They also did a lot of extorting local businesses, right? They called it the revolutionary tax. So they got into some sort of more classic kind of organized crime stuff there. And, but the assassination we want to talk about today is opera, you know, ogre. Um, so the way they do this is they rent this, uh, flat, right? They, they, that's an apartment for American listeners. Uh, and they, they rent this flat and claim to be student, like sculpting students, right? Like they were art students were into sculpture. That's, that's why we're covered in dust every day and we only wear these overalls. And for five months, they spend every day digging a tunnel underneath the road by their flat, right? And, uh, in that tunnel, they pack 80 kilograms of explosive. And what they're doing there is they're waiting for this guy, Luis Carreiro Blanco to come in his car, which he travels in every day, right? And they're going to explode that explosive and they're going to kill him. The reason they want to kill him is because they say that he is the, the best example of pure fascism, right? He's a former admiral. He's Spain's sort of prime minister. He's Franco's chosen successor. Right? So he's going to take over from Franco. And so by killing him, they're able to destabilize the whole Franco regime. Franco cries in public when he finds out, Kato Blanco is dead. And, so spoiler alert, Franco is extremely dead. The way they did this is they dressed up as electricians, which is also the Lord of Dresy Garp in this, which is kind of fun. And they painted a little line on a wall to be like, okay, when the car gets to here, we explode it. So the car gets to there, they explode it. They launch this car over a church and it lands on the second floor terrace on the other side. Sometimes this is called like the Bask Space Program or Luis Carrero Blanco is referred to as Spain's first astronaut. That's not what it's you funny. Yeah, you can find a picture of it. It is hysterical. The car like, it just, it just goes. It's so yeah, it's it's periodically in Spain. Like someone will be prosecuted for making this joke. This Spain's first astronaut joke. So it happened someone pretty recently. Like, and she had really made it a thing of making jokes. Actually, I think his, I think it's his grandchildren have noted that it's a problematic restriction of free speech that people keep getting prosecuted for this. And a court recently found that they weren't mocking his family or his memory, but they were just pointing the objectively funny way in which he died. Great for the court to agree that it was objectively funny that a terrible fucking person died by being blown literally sky high. His driver and his bodyguard were also killed. It shouldn't be a bodyguard for a piece of shit. But they, the the the Etta guys had disguised themselves as electricians. After the bomb went off, they ran around shouting, oh no, we've hit a gas pipe. Like, there's been a gas explosion for everybody clear out. Yeah, that sure was. Yeah. So pretty, pretty entertaining stuff. Acting is their side passion, I guess. And like, the reason they did it, they did a pressur, not long afterwards, wearing their outfits, which some of you may find offensive. And they, they cited like his irreplaceable place in the hierarchy, right? And him being this, they called him a pure Francoist. And oddly, like, Etta would not at this point, they were less unpopular than they became later because they weren't doing quite as much extortion and they hadn't been engaging in quite as many murders of journalists, right? And you used to see this, I'll get to that later, actually. They got grudging praise from almost everyone for doing this, right? Because it really does destabilize and kind of kicks out from under the Franco regime. And it makes Franco cry, which I think is a lot of a goal. Like, it's good to make Franco cry, Franco cry more. So they, it kind of, it kind of, it kind of atomizes the Francoist state, right, between people who are like, of this bunk attendancy, who want to go hardcore and crack down, and those who are like, we don't have the ability to crack down, like, we'll lose all popular support if we do that. And it, it really sort of vaporizes the consensus for what to do after Franco dies, which he does a few years later. I want to point out that people will, you'll read these articles on like popular news websites or like, you know, like hot take websites where they're like, oh, this carbon launched Spain into democracy. Don't do that. And I think, first of all, the, the, the major error with that is the idea that Spain quote unquote transition to democracy. When you have a, a packed transition where the people who did the war crimes in the previous regime are specifically not prosecuted and exempt from prosecution, that's not what democracy looks like. I think the most accurate way of just driving where Spain is, is a post dictator, like a post dictatorship. And Spain is still there now. Like, we see that with these prosecutions for mocking him, right, with the fact that there are people in Spain who are still in prison for mocking the crown. Like, that's not what democracies do. Good thing that could never happen in Britain. Yeah, look at you. You won't find me defending that either. But we don't, we don't make a big industry of talking about Britain's transition to democracy. Oh, maybe don't talk about transitions to talk, given the powerful turf discourse in Britain. But yeah, I think it's problematic that folks talk about this. Like, yeah, Spain is fixed. Like Spain has some dark shit that it needs to process. Like it was not until the middle of the last decade that we started exhuming the graves from the Civil War. And that's still highly contentious, right? You still have a political party that, that doesn't want to do that. Spain is still processing the fact that the Catholic church took babies away from people who it considered to be leftist and gave them to people who it considered to be more appropriate to raise them. It's called Nino Svalovalos if you want to look it up. Yeah, Spain not transitioning to democracy. And I want to make that very clear. Some of the other shit that Etta does is really, this is where they start to lose any claim to being like a liberation movement, right? Like, they bombed an ePair Corps. That's like bombing a target in a for American folks in Barcelona. They killed 21 people. Now, I will say this isn't, this is exemplary, bad policing. They called the cops and were like, hey, we've put a bomb underneath the supermarket. You'll ought to clear it out. And the cops are like, I can't tell if that's a real threat or not. And as a result, they do anything. And as a result, the bomb went off underneath the supermarket and 21 people died, right? They also alerted a newspaper in Catalonia beforehand. Reporters without borders still for a long time classified Spain as a place that was hostile to journalists because of the attacks on journalists by Etta, right? Also, the state isn't hostile to journalism. But I want to point out that they killed journalists, they killed university professors who disagreed with them. They killed local counsellors. And it was some of these like, these very unpopular murders, which really sort of stripped support from them. And one thing that the Spanish state did, or a couple of things that Spanish state did that really were extremely repressive against Etta, was they would move basque prisoners out of the Basque homeland and sort of hold them thousands of miles away from their families, like in the Canary Islands and ship, like they're probably closer to Africa than you are to your home country when they do that, right? And you would often see, I don't know if maybe you guys have seen this. It's a white flag. It's got an outline of the Basque land. It's got an arrow and it says, you've got a school, a school area. Have you seen that? Like protests? Now, if you'd been at the protests, I was at, like, you know, in like the early 2000s in Europe, you would see that flag a lot. It just means basque prisoners to the Basque homeland. A lot of people got behind that who might not have got behind other things that Etta did, right? But it does seem deeply inhumane to move these people so far away from their families. It's sort of an extra punishment. The Spanish state also had this thing called GAL. GAL is Grupo Antiterrorista Sté liberación. So, I guess, like, Antiterrorist liberation group. And these were Desquad, right? These were Desquad, they didn't have it by the police. Etta enjoyed, like, a safe space in France, I guess, or like a freedom for prosecution. Certainly under Franco, France was like, eh, you know what? Franco really sucks. So you guys go ahead and send it. Do your terrorism, where you're about a clavist. I'm sure the French also objected to their beret style. This is their safe space for your terrorism. Yeah, well, that's basically what they said. Yeah. Yeah. Just like a whole thing with midter end in France in the 70s, like, France kind of became this weird, like, they basically had this, yeah, they had this open policy. Like, like, there was a bunch of, well, there were a bunch of people in Italy who got, like, falsely accused of, like, being the Red Brigades. What's that guy's name? The guy, a negrie, Antonio Negrie, who's like a kind of famous, they were, it's theory kind of sucks by the end. But like, they arrest him for, like, being a terrorist. And then he, he gets himself elected to Parliament, so he can get Parliamentary immunity and then fleece the country to France. Yeah. Yeah, France was a weird time. Wasn't caught up to Jackal also in Paris for a while. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You love it, France. Open door policy to terrorists. Like, this is, this is the only cool thing France has done since 1968. Like, yeah. Yeah, you know, they invented parkour. When was that? Oh, that was like in the residence. Okay. Okay. Okay. So the second cool thing. Got to hand that to them. Yeah. Yeah. They'll hand that to the entire country of France. Yeah. Maybe not actually given their a treatment of migrant diasporas in recent years. And sometimes their firefighters will go out and beat the shit into the police. That is true. That is a new point. I do think we all have to give that to them. I wanted to maybe end with this quote from Subcomal Lante Marcos. So we've talked a little bit about the zapatissos. Yeah. So this is from a piece called I shit upon, is it a shit upon the revolutionary vanguards of the earth? Yeah. Yeah. All the titles are like having problems translating total and bundo, which is like, yeah. Have you, I couldn't find it written in the original Spanish. Maybe that's just because I was googling wrong. They didn't put a lot of time in it. But I found so many zapatissos texts that preserve better in these weird English translations. And I don't know if they're written in English. It's supposedly possible they're written in English the first time. I don't think this one. I think I think these I think this particular one's a translation. Okay. But yeah. Yeah. I'm yeah. I tried to find it Spanish actually. But yeah. So I'm just going to go as a translation. I think it's probably from LibKarm or a similar website with like aging red and black aesthetic vibes. But I love those websites. So it's a bit long. I hope you enjoy it. We don't see why we should have the ghetto kind of like reaching out in solidarity and the zapatissos have previously been like, now dude, we are not the same. You're not just like a setting society. We are not the same people. And we don't see why we would ask you what we should do or how we should do it. What are you going to teach us to kill journalists who speak badly about the struggle, to justify the death of children for the reason of the cause. We don't need or want your support or solidarity. We already have the support and solidarity of many people in Mexico and the world. Our struggle has a code of honor inherited from our guerrilla ancestors and it contains among other things, respective civilian lives, even though they may occupy government positions that oppress us. We don't use crime to get resources for ourselves. We don't rob not even a snack store. We don't respond to words with fire, even though many hurt us or lie to us. One can think that to renounce these traditionally revolutionary methods is renouncing the advancements of our struggle. But in the faint light of our history, it seems that we have advanced more than those who resort to such arguments. I deeply enjoy this critique. You can look it up. Eto was big on killing people who were tangentially related to the regime in any way, which I don't agree with. We should also add that they more or less definitively stopped doing stuff in 2018. They had a press conference and in their press conference, actually, our Naldor Tegi, who was a former member, said that they wanted to express a sorrow for the pain and suffering other people have been jured. He goes on, like, we feel their pain and that's, instead of feeling lead us to a firm that it should never have happened. You want to say sorry because you did terrorism. But I do think that, like, we should, we're talking about assassinations. We're talking about assassinations all week. There are ways to do leftist political struggle that are not killing random civilians and their friends and family members and bombing supermarkets and those are the better ways. But making Franco cries good, sending Franco's successor into near earth orbit is pretty funny. So we enjoy that one, at least, if not all of everything. I think it is worth pointing out, like, we've made this pretty obvious by that line. But it does not get a free, a free, a free basketball land. The zapatistas have actually taken and still control territory a thing that none of these, like, weird real groups ever pulled off. So, you know, yeah, they don't even get majority support, really at any point. Yeah. Like, occasionally, there'll be people who are like, yeah, you know what? Like, I agree with some of what they say, but they're tactics. They're deeply flawed, you know, these keeping people like torturing people, that kind of thing. The context of the dirty war with the state is important. But yeah, they don't succeed, right? And I don't think you do succeed, but by extorting the people you're claiming to liberate, that generally doesn't work well. So up those zapatistas, I guess. Yeah. That seems like a good place to end. Yep. Cool. Yeah. So this is this has been naked happened here. Join us tomorrow for more assassinations. And also the day after that, the day after that, and the day after that. Yep. Don't wait. Hey there. My name is Lauren Oberg and I'm a journalist and a podcast host. I'm also allowed talker, a dog owner, and a Pittsburgher, among other descriptors that end in ER. Oh, and as of late 2020, I'm also officially autistic, which came as a surprise because I don't fit into a lot of the stereotypes about autism. On my new show, The Loudest Girl in the World, I'm going to walk you through my own experience. From the time my sixth grade teacher put me in a cardboard box to shut me up, to the time I melt to down as an adult over a caper in my soup, to my decision at age 42 to finally get evaluated for autism. Listen to The Loudest Girl in the World on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Roy Wood Jr. host of The Daily Show Podcasts Beyond the Scenes, and we are back for season two. Beyond the scenes as the podcast, where we go even deeper into segments and topics we covered on the show, but there are topics that deserve a little more time, a little more finesse, details, you know. So this season, we're bringing on more daily show writers, producers, and correspondents. We're bringing on more experts to drop knowledge on all sorts of topics. You're going to get some knowledge that you can't get anywhere else. We're breaking it down the season two. We're talking gentrification. We talking gun laws, book banning, black trailblazers in fashion, all the trash ways that people treat flight attendants as well. And shout out to the flight attendants. How you keeping a safe and still got time to give me a biscuit cookie? Respect. Listen to Beyond the Scenes on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It don't matter when you get it, baby, just find us. You love movies or maybe just need us a recommendations on what new movies to watch next time you sit down in front of the TV. Well, I have the podcast for you. Hey, this is Mike D for Movie Mike's Movie Podcast. You're a go to source for all things movies and no matter the genre what you're into, whether it be comedy's romance, action, sight by horror, superhero movies, I cover it all. I'm no critic. I'm just a guy who loves movies. Each episode explores a different movie topic, plus spoiler free reviews on the latest new movies in theaters and on streaming. And yes, they're always spoiler free so you don't have to worry about anything getting ruined for you. Plus, interviews with actors, directors, and writers covering the behind the scenes of your favorite movies. I also keep you in the know with all the latest movie news and movie trailers. Listen to new episodes of Movie Mike's Movie Podcast every Monday on the Nashville Podcast Network available on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts. Hello, I'm the ghost of the Queen. And this is Assassination Week. And who's I actually was assassinated? It was the IRA. Hi, welcome, welcome to Assassination Week where we talk about all of the normal things. That's what we do. Talk about all the stuff that's totally normal and chill. We were just debating why we keep having to talk about Nazi furries, differences between cat boys and cat girls as they relate to Nazism. And we're not going to get less stupid for today's assassination. So let's talk about Argentina. One of one of the ones that happened pretty shortly after we planned on doing assassination week. We're like, oh, well, there's another one to add to the list. So yeah, Christina Fernandez, the Kirchner, has been kind of one of the most prominent politicians in Argentina for almost two decades now. She was elected president after her husband served as a term and then declined to to run for a second. But she was elected in 2007. After an eight year run as president, she's now the country's vice president. She was expected to make a bid to return to the top job next year. But that's kind of up in the air. She's kind of leftish. She's kind of the populist, like leftist kind of. She's talking a bit about colonialism and like the weird shit that's going on here. Please talk about colonialism. Maybe do it in the music of Andrew Lloyd Webber. Oh god, no. Okay. So there once was a man named Perrone. And he, so he had been like, there's a whole thing. He gets like, kooed. He's like, feel like flees the country. And while he's not in the dictatorship, like while he's not in Argentina, there's like this whole like one of like a sort of very classical populist movement to the point where like a lot of the theorizing about what populism is, is theorizing about colonialism. And what you get is like two completely different like political factions like casting all of this sort of aspirations onto the like like onto the figure of like Perrone who's like in exile. And so you can like, you know, you can say that like Perrone has whatever to Perrone supports us like Perrone will be the guy who save us. And like, so you get like, you get this really weird thing where there are like, they were like, there are Peronists who are like fascists. There are Peronists who are like communists. So you get the split that happens. You have these left Peronists, you have these right Peronists. Like, like when Perrone comes back to the country, like the right Peronists start murdering the left wing Peronist. It's this whole fucking thing. And it's this, you know, and this this sort of like like political formation like persists through an unread military dictatorship. It persists like through sort of like the trend to quote unquote, transition to democracy. And like basically everyone who has ran Argentina sense like the quote unquote, transition to democracy has been a Peronist of some kind. Um, Krishna is, the Krishna is from the left wing sort of the the new, the sort of like revitalized left like Peronism that that comes around like the early 2000s. I mean, she's around, she's around actually the 90s too. But in in in the early 2000s, it sort of like, okay, so in 2001, there's this massive series of protest and uprisings in in Argentina. Like I would argue is like the last of like the great 20th century sort of like working class revolutions. Like people started occupying like people started occupying their factories. Like they go through like five prime ministers in like a month. Like they they they come very, very, very close to bringing down the government. And the thing the thing that sort of stabilized situation is a, and this is this is a series of protests against like I'm a austerity, right? Which would be just like destroying the country. And the way this sort of gets stabilized is that you you get a new, you know, you get a new sort of like revitalized like left Peronist populist thing. And the sort of populist deal is twofold. It's like one, okay, we're going to have a bunch of patreons networks. And we're going to run like everything from like sort of like job networks kind of like down, like right, right down to like, hey, we will like give a dear neighborhood as long as you stay as long as you sort of support us. And the second thing is like they they make the like the ruling class like cuts this sort of this is this is particularly like for an end of the Christian like her husband's like cuts this deal basically sorry, Nester Kitchener cuts this deal with with the working class, which is like, okay, if you guys don't if you guys stop trying to overthrow us like we will give you a bunch of welfare programs. We will like do a bunch of stuff to like promote it the sort of like national economy. And so it's this it's this whole it's it's it's like a left populism, but it's it's built on sort of like like this very explicit like we are going to buy off the working class so we can maintain capitalism. But the capitalism is going to be slightly nicer. Yeah, and there's a few reactions to that, including the reaction from the right, which is very much like these wealth of these wealth air programs are making people lazy and unwilling to do actual work, which is kind of where some of our assassin or attempted assassin gets some of his ideology from. But yeah, so a week before this assassination attempt, Argentine and prosecutors announced that they're seeking a 12 year prison sentence for Mrs. Kirchner over accusations that she directed public roadway funds to a company owned by a friend of hers accusations, which she denies. I don't I have no bid in this fight. Yeah, I mean, the thing I would note is like like almost everyone. So she like well, we're particularly Mr. Chris, but she was also sort of like considered like the soft wing of the pink tides sort of like social democratic arguments account to power in this period. And like all of these people are kind of corrupt, but they're not like more corrupt than any other like politician in this region. But like every single one of these people eventually like there's a whole movement to like put them in prison because of corruption or something. And it's like, I mean, I don't know like every like it their politicians like yeah, would you expect like the political rhetoric against Mrs. Kirchner had intensified in recent weeks amid the final stages of her corruption trial. And while she is probably the country's most prominent politician even serving as vice president, seen as more powerful than then the president, she's also a very polarizing figure, you know, there's her faces plastered on posters all around like working class neighborhoods. But Argentina's right has kind of made her out to be their boogeyman. She's kind of there that she's kind of like their top target. Now last week in one opposition lawmaker commenting on her case said that Argentina should bring back the death penalty just for her case just because she's like, a woman we don't like so we shouldn't kill her. It sounds like our friends at the uh, written house culture center. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Would you call her a fanny balsy? Uh, she said because they certainly would. Oh god. So yeah, but since the proposition of the 12 year sentence, uh, hundreds of her supporters have been rallying or were rallying outside of her house every night, um, you know, calling her a victim of political persecution and doing these big, big rallies in support. And it was at such a rally on Thursday, September 1st just after 9 p.m. When Mrs. Kirchner was returning home from presiding over a session at the Senate, accompanied by her security detail. She was greeting the massive supporters, letting the streets and signing copies of her book. And then a man rushed up through the crowd, aimed a semi automatic pistol interest away from her face and pulled the trigger. But the gun didn't go off. There's lots of footage on the sensitive. There was a lot of cameras rolling. It's kind of wild. Yeah. She sticks the gun like right up in her face. It's just like it really like this. This is like something out of like fucking like like late 1800s Russia. It's very very slapstick. It's very comical. Yeah. The French Ferdinand level of speaking of, uh, president, president, uh, Fernandez said in an address to the nation later that quote, Christina is to live because for reasons that have not been confirmed technically, the weapon which was loaded with five bullets did not fire. I can confirm technically that it is a piece of shit. You can find it was it was a 30 it was a 32 caliber. 380 wasn't it? It's a births of thunder, isn't it? Oh, maybe I'm wrong. Was it? Yeah. Wasn't it like a specific gun that's like absolutely like the worst gun? So these are kind of funny. They're these like their bursts. So I think they're made in Argentina. They might be made in Brazil. I think they made in Argentina. Uh, they they make knockoffs of other gun designs more or less. So it's in the style of a PKK, which has good precedent for killing, uh, bad people. That's what Hitler brained himself with. But uh, this, this is a knockoff. This is a cheap one. And it's one of the guns. It's approved for safe sailing, California, because you know, it doesn't get bang. Uh, at least a version of this. I don't think the one that that this person used to actually have found out. But yeah, it's just a bit like, uh, I don't know. It's it's the, um, it's like when you go and buy a cheap knockoff of anything, you know, like sometimes it doesn't work. This one appears to be missing one of the grip screws actually. But yeah, it's very rusty. Uh, this person didn't think this three very well, I guess. It's what I said. We'll talk, we'll talk a bit more about what was going on with the gun in a sack. Uh, you know, what, uh, won't fail to murder the vice president of the country. These, these products and these products and the support. Yeah. The podcast. Yeah. Thank you. That's what it, that's what it puts today. It's whatever one says about butter health. It will, it will, it will, it will, the health. Yeah. You killed the vice president. Okay. It said plug for ammonium nitrate. Okay. Federal police arrested Fernando on Andre's sebeg Montiel, a 35 year old Brazilian man, who has been living in Argentina for about 20 years. They recover the gun at the scene. And then the next day they, uh, searched his apartment yet. He had a, he had a studio apartment in like a working class suburb of, oh boy, what's the boy? Um, Ben, narrow, cell, oh boy. I would have said this one to the chat. Let someone else. Let me do it. Let's let the people move. Um, too, too, too Spanish and sort of speak to me. Yeah. It's a boot. There we go. I send it to the regular cool. So, okay. What are sorry? No, that was, that was a, what? I got a son. I can't, I can't read that. I have no idea. Gary's that it's a capitalist Levant, you know, I don't know. I can't read it. Oh, I only, I never say words. I only read it. Yeah. This is really the thing. Uh, yeah. Buenos Aires. Buenos. Buenos. Buenos. Buenos. I'm learning how to read ancient Greek for magic. And that's way easier than this. Yeah. I was quippled back. Are you going to be like a Hebrew, understand or a Twitter? You're going to be like, it means legal immigrants when he says that guys. No, only only only for only for ancient Greek. Only only for Greeks to use to use in spells. I forget that people who aren't Americans don't pick up the sort of like, smattering of terrible Spanish that like everyone in the US can kind of do. Yeah. No. I, I grew up as a kid in Saskatchewan. No one's going to speak Spanish there. Yeah. Just food nouns. You can, you can just do like a pollo. But anyway, so they searched his studio apartment in apparently this big town point Buenos Aires race. This is Argentina or Asia. So people are going to be legitimately very hungry. But it's fine. But anyway, these searches apartment, they found just a hundred bullets. Just around. Just like in various places or like, they said they just found a hundred bullets like around his studio apartment. So yeah. Wow. That's that's that's the statement. It's a may people have a voice of video in Heidi recommend looking it up. So Mr. Montel is registered with tax authorities as an Uber driver. And he's not pretty soon people figure out that he's not just a regular dude. There was, there was, there was a few signs most most notably the Saunin Red tattoo on his elbow. That'll do it. So which yeah. So it's the Azorft battalion logo, right? What is he? Yeah. Shut the fuck up. Shut the fuck up. So yes, a wave of people who think they're smart, but are actually not saw the Saunin Red and thought that he was doing this in solidarity with the Azorft battalion. It's like in a duke in his group. I'll get to it not quite. But no, it's not Azorft battalion because the Saunin Red does not come from the Azorft battalion. As most people listening to this show should probably know already. His social media accounts got taken down pretty quick, but we do have a few archives, which I'll be working off of to kind of paint the rest of this weird guy's picture. He is steeped in a whole bunch of eclectic and esoteric things. He has various esoteric symbols tattooed across his body. He follows a lot of extremely interesting Facebook pages. He is interested in stuff from far right groups, conspiracy theories, mysticism, free masonry, quote unquote alchemy, and the Kabbalah, or again, quote unquote the Kabbalah, across many kind of political esoteric fascist interests. It's kind of it's not very surprising. By the way, I just found out there's a whole page by that caliber of scurrogyne. You were right, and I was wrong. It's a 32 ACP pistol. Thank you. Thank you. It wasn't 32 ACP. Huh. Well, yeah, yeah. Maybe if you spent less time making fun of my Spanish, we can learn something. That's clever. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think in terms of levels, we've had to study here. For a while, he used the symbol of the Tyronal Order of the Knights, which was a fringe, kind of far right Argentine fascist mystical group from the 1980s. But he had that as his Facebook profile for a while. So he's like into the worst type of nerd things. Like instead of just playing D&D and getting it out of your system, he's like, I'm going to become a fascist and a wizard. You know, if he'd had a cultural center where he could play D&D with other people, just say. Talk about Dragon Ball, play D&D. Yeah. Yeah. Painting. Do some really bad figure painting. Do do do do do. And we wouldn't have had a problem here, but instead. Here we are. So, but me like looking at his Facebook page, right? You see stuff about like paganism, Viking, his death metal, not very good philosophers. These types of things don't immediately indicate a connection to the far right. Like you can't just take them by themselves. But when taken all together with the much more overt political things, you can get a fuller picture of who this person actually is. You know, it's like when I walk in on the street and I see someone inside like a half skull mask, that doesn't immediately mean they're Nazi. But if I see the half skull mask and that's some questionable tattoos, I'm like, okay, then that then you're able to put that together. So same thing with here, right? When someone's really into like pagan Viking shit, it may make me slide I, but until I see some things that really confirm my suspicions, I'm not going to, you know, you know, talk of this person as if they are Nazi. This guy is a Nazi. He is a big old Nazi. A few extremism researchers in Argentina have kind of made statements about this guy and what they're, they're taken on it is as someone, you know, who actually is in Argentina, right? I'm an extremism researcher who lives in Oregon, which is I, so I don't really have the same cultural understanding. We have a good grasp on the language, which is helpful. I have a good class on the language when they're using magic words, when they're using words from real languages, not really. But no, they've, they've, they've talked about him, like saying, they're not, this dude is quote, not explicitly connected to an organization, but they relate to the fascist ideology and compared him to kind of being the, the types of quote, unquote, like lone wolf attackers that are not connected to any like specific political movement, but almost just like an emanation of political ideas online, like in a Christchurch buffalo and alpaso. Those were the places that that he was kind of compared to is like people who aren't like inside a group, but are willing to go out and take politics into the real world. But yeah, they, uh, compared his profile to other, other types of like, you know, like, uh, load, quote unquote, lone wolf, just not a good term. But like what that means is like as someone who's like isolated, uh, doing a mass shooting or a terrorist attack or an attempted a political assassination. Montel was described as his friends, uh, as like eccentric and insecure and dishonest, but not necessarily openly violent or kind of openly invested in like political parties, which isn't surprising when you get someone into this like nerdy type of politics, that's like, yeah, they're doing politics as it relates to being like a weird nerd online. But you know, who knows? His friends made us not not seen this side of him at all. Like who, who can, who can say? Because he did have a lot of fascist tattoos. So like, like, come on guys, um, on the, he had like we said, Son and Red on his left elbow. On the back of his hands, he had a, he had the iron cross and he had, uh, Thor is hammer. Uh, but like like the like the traditional one, not like Marvel movie shit. In a funny maybe coincidence, this guy, the assassin was actually interviewed twice on television in like months before the attack, just as an average citizen on the street giving his opinion on politics. Um, one of them, he, they were, he was a interviewed with his girlfriend and they were complaining about Argentina's social welfare programs saying that they make people lazy. Um, and then in another more recent one, in another more recent interview, he was asked if he supported Argentina's new finance minister, which he responded hell no. And then he offered his opinion as well, saying that he doesn't support Christina either. Uh, Christina is later the person he tries to kill. Uh, you know, I will say this, this is, this is not out of line for like, well, whenever a journalist tries to pick a random person on his street, like it's like it, they're, they're, they're always interviewing Hitler, Mussolini, like it's, it's just every single time. Like this guy is a representative sample of those people. But yeah, so he, he gives up his unsolicited opinion on Christina, who he then tries to murder on TV just a month before he tries to kill her. Um, so now back at the scene, authorities said that so the gun they had five bullets inside. Um, um, the serial, the serial number was partially partially removed. Um, it was, it was an older, it was an older gun. It was not, was, was not brand new. Um, they said that the gun model had not been manufactured in 40 years. Um, but it's, uh, the, it looks like it was made until 1978. So, like, yeah, it's pretty old. Yeah, the gun could have failed to fire because it was broken or because it was just improperly loaded. Um, because, have you come across the Argentine media articles which were explaining how to properly cock the hammer on one piece? That is some real, real, real interesting take stuff being like next time. Uh, so good stuff as always from our friends in the media. And reportedly, uh, the gun tried to try to get fired twice. So pulled, pulled the trigger at least two times. And when they recovered it, there was no round chamber. So he may have just not like, oh my god. This is really like, like, he could just, he could have just not cocked it at all. And that could be why he didn't fire. Like, it's, it's unclear. This whole thing is really like the, like, it's, it's the verdict, virgin Kirschner assassin versus the Chad Abe assassin. The Chad Abe assassin went to the time of building his own weapon. He fired it twice, bullsharts went off. A fucking virgin. This guy zero fires it twice doesn't, doesn't build his own weapon. Zero bullets come out. Do we know of its legal for this person to own the gun in Argentina with her? They like acquired it legally and not been able to test it illegally and not been able to test it because that would have also sort of got some attention to them. I believe it's illegal. Okay. Yeah. Well, either way. Yeah, should have just done the old, the old Abe method with the pipe gun and the battery, I guess. Well, do you know what isn't illegal? And that's assembling your own, but no, no, it's, uh, that's very legal. We're right. These products and services, which support this podcast, very not illegal. All right. We are, we are back. I'm going to share with you guys the document I'm looking at so you can, so you can have have fun looking at all of these, uh, these symbols with me. Um, scroll to where the first picture is. Um, and then we'll, then we're gonna go over all of the all of the weird shit that we have. This is what, so we're looking at his Facebook likes here. Yes. These are the Facebook pages that he follows. He's gonna zoom in on this paper. Dear God. Yeah. So yeah, this is a bit of a red flag. There's some yikes here. So yeah, um, 35 years old, uh, he has a Chilean father and an Argentine mother. He's lived in Argentina for at least 20 years. His profiles on Facebook and Instagram. We're taking down pretty soon on his Instagram. He described himself as a devout Christian. Sure, buddy. Um, well, the nice tip that pop up on here. So yes, yes. Um, he didn't comment on Brazilian politics very much. It was mostly interested in Argentina, um, but in a lot of the esoteric Nazi stuff. Um, a lot of the weird like, there's actually an interesting history of esoteric Nazi stuff, specifically inside Argentina as well. Obviously a lot of Nazis fled to Argentina. They've kind of been a fostered ground for them. But yeah, there is, there's a lot of, a lot of stuff here. Um, one of the pages he follows is named Camarada Miguel SS, which is just a picture of like Nazi soldiers in arm bands. Uh, you're under selling this. Uh, that looks like nothing to me. There's, there's, there's a lot of stuff. Uh, yeah, biblioteca esoterica. But yeah, there's, there's stuff on like noctisism. There's stuff on free masonry. Um, all of the, like, it's kind of like a, it's a little bit of a basic bitch here. This is like, it's not, it's, it's for, for this type of guy, it's not surprising. Obviously, he's not like a normal dude. But for someone who's into esoteric fascist stuff, you're like, okay, yeah, you hit all the things. Like, you're, I'm not surprised looking at your page. Um, so yeah, like we said, he's tattooed with a black sun iron cross and a mill and a mill near. Um, now obviously the iron cross, the mill near are not symbols created by Nazis. Uh, you know, they were previously existing symbols. Uh, iron cross existed in the Prussian army. The mill near is an old Nordic symbol. But both of these were uh, uh, coopted by the Nazis. Pretty, pretty, uh, pretty strongly. Uh, now have very strong associations. If you scroll down to the next page, um, I have, uh, all of his tattoos here. Oh, yeah. So you can see a bit of the son of red on his, on his elbow. You can see some of the, uh, hammer on his, uh, I believe his right hand has the hammer and his left hand has the, has the iron cross. Uh, so I mean, uh, what's this diamond thing on his inner wrist? I'm going to get to that. Okay. So the black sun, the sun and red, we've talked about this on the show a lot. Um, it exists before a soft, um, a lot of lives, a lot of liberals now think it's an ASOv battalion symbol. Uh, no, I mean, this, you know, a, a lot of Nazi mass shooters have had, a son of red like patches and stuff for years and years and years. It's been very popular. It's also very popular among esoteric fascists. Yeah. Also very popular among like, you see a lot of Wagner group guys with this. Like you see, there's a lot of Russian soldiers who have these chin on. Yeah. So, yeah. But no, but it makes sense as it in its popularity as like, an esoteric fascist symbol. This guy is into all of the esoteric fascist shit. So he's, of course, he's going to have a black sun. Um, uh, so the, that now James mentioned another tattoo, which kind of looks like a diamond, which is the Yigdrazel Immurusal, um, which is how, how, that's how I'm going to pronounce it because nobody cares. Um, it, it means a great tall pillar. It's known as like the tree bridge that would connect the earth to like the celestial, like greater reality. The Arminzule plays an important role in like old Germanic paganism. It was, there were probably was a physical sacrificial site adorned with like big pillars. Um, but I'd like, and like a lot of the old weird German shit, it got notified. Um, Hinder Kimler founded the Society for Research and Teaching of Ancestral Heritage in 1935, uh, which was, this was an organization with the aim of retracing quote, ancient area artifacts that support the master race theory. Um, and, uh, he used one of these for the original symbol of this organization, which is all about like tracing back old Germanic like pagan shit to be like, here's evidence that we're the master race and all of our, he's like, he's like trying to manufacture anthropology, which supports all of the bad science that says we are Aryans and we are better. So he's, it's in this like fake in, you know, it's like the Indiana Jones stuff. Like this is, this is, this is, this is what he's trying to do. Um, but that one of the symbols used for that was the, uh, immensial or the, uh, Yacht, Brazil, uh, possibly this symbol was also linked to Odin, it's unclear, because the actual god of that represents, immensial is hard to trace. Um, but yeah, probably a sacred object in the form of a pillar, uh, that represents kind of the, the trunk of the Nordic spiritual cosmos that rises up into kind of the heavens. Yes, it's something, it's something that Nazis pilfered from like Germanic paganism, turn it into Nazi shit and became this idea around the spiritual center of like German nationalism. It's like it's this, this, this, this, this spiritual thing that represents how pure we are as German nationalists. Anyway, uh, uh, obviously the shooter is not German, which is kind of, so I wonder, I wonder how he has that, huh? I wonder what he's trying to say there. It just likes German people. It's interesting in the culture. But yes, he has one of these on his, uh, I believe it's his left hand, um, on, on, on his forearm. It's a, it's a, it's a pretty intricate symbol. Uh, yeah, that's like his best tattoo as well. Some of the others are pretty ropey. Yeah, the, the millenium tattoo is not very good. Um, the, the iron cross is pretty faded, but, uh, but the, the great pillar once decent, um, in terms of like quality, I get it. We're just, we're just reviewing the tattoos of an esoteric fascist. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, best fascist tattoo top five. Um, look, is that the nation week is also fashion week? Yeah, it's true. Would you say better or worse than etta with the berries and the ski mask at this point? I like the ski masks. I think, I think it's slightly better. Oh, so ball take. So this, the, the thing that, uh, uh, James was asking about previously, there's this really weird symbol that obviously looks kind of swastika ish. It's, it's, it's, it's very like it's, it's, it's, it's made up of like two different runes combined into one symbol. Um, this, this is, this is the kind of logo of an esoteric neo nazi sect in Argentina, founded by a very famous argentina neo nazi named Nimrod di Rosario, um, which I do like that is named as Nimrod. Yeah, it's like, oh, god. So yes, um, I highlighted this, this thing. Do you want to try to try to pronounce that one? That one's, uh, yeah, and orden de caballeros to Rodal de Argentina. So like, so that is the name of the sect. Uh, it's the, the, the symbols like a combination of the, uh, Odel rune and the tyro rune, um, hence the name, uh, Tyro Dal or, uh, Tyro Dal, it's, it's, it's, it's a combination of these things into this new thing. Um, so this is like very popular for this type of like kind of, kind of esoteric, not see writer, uh, inside, inside our Argentina. He had, so the assassin, or attempted assassin had a few of these things saved. Um, is it was actually an organization like the order of nights, the Tyro Dal night. So have we said that? I mean, not really. Is this a Facebook chevalue recorder? It's, it's hard to say. I mean, like, no, they're not, they're not, they're not out there doing tons of shit. Um, are they laughing? Yes. Yes. They are. I mean, all, as soon as with any one of these groups, called themselves like an order of the nights, they're always larping. Like they're always, they're always doing kind of a larpa. Whenever someone's into like the temple, isn't shit, you're like, okay. Yeah. Who's a textous politician recently who joined, like the, uh, he's like swung to protect Christians in the Holy Land. It was very funny. Yeah. Like, come on. Yeah. Uh, okay. He's a big, yeah, he's got a lot of Christian stuff as well. Like I'm looking at the, uh, and then what with, yeah, I mean, that's, that's kind of with all of like the narcissism stuff, which it was drawn on a lot of like Christian imagery or Catholic imagery. And he did describe himself as a Christian on his, uh, Instagram account, which stills like, okay, bud, you're here into some weirder shit than that. But yeah, there is, there, there is there is some of a Christian basis for this style of like esoterism. I feel you. Okay. Well, I've just found it. That, I'm sorry, I just scrolled down. Didn't expect to see that. Just expect to see what I see like a cam girl, uh, Oleg cam. Oh, yes. Yes. He was, he was retweeted a cam girl on his Twitter. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I have some other stuff here on the, the Argentinian, uh, Patriot front. Um, but I, please, different Patriot front than the American one. Um, but that was a talk. I just wanted to talk to talk briefly a bit about like Argentinian, like a, a Nazi is um, or fascism, um, much like Brazilian stuff with Bolsonaro and the kind of the, the, the, the fascist groups that have been active in both countries for a while. Both of them have historical roots that go back to the 20th, 20th century. They're knee, not see in neofascist groups that have been active in Argentina for decades. Uh, we've talked, we talked a little bit about this in the Kyle written as cultural center as well. Um, as it relates to like anti communist you like stuff, um, one of the kind of oldest, um, groups of, of, uh, of Argentinian fascism, formed into a new group called, uh, Patriot front or, uh, Frente Patriot patriota. How, how, how would you say that? How would you say that? Patriot. I was close. I was close. Yeah. You were really there for like 80% of it. I really thought you had it. Um, but yeah. So this, this, this new group of Patriot front was formed in 2017. Um, but it's based off of a very famous, uh, a far right leader called Alejandro Bianneau. Um, just how, again, that's how, how I'm going to do it. Uh, I should, his name was, his name was highlighted here. Um, B and Dini, like, this, yeah, that's, yeah, it's not a Spanish sounding name. I mean, but he's, he's, he's been active in Argentina's far right, uh, sphere for a long, long time. Like he's, he's kind of like the main guy who's trying to do stuff. He's six, six, six, six years old. Um, uh, he was born in Argentina. Um, um, yeah, I was a, Argentina has a massive, um, uh, Italian population. This has been, like, this has been true for sort of a long time. Like, yeah, and this sort of, this cuts both ways politically. Like a lot of those guys used to be anarchists. Like there was a huge anarchist who went in Argentina for a long time. Uh, also a lot of weird fascists. So it is, it is, it is, it is, it is interesting that like this neo nazi assassin, again, wasn't part of any of these groups, wasn't really aligned with this patriot front group, wasn't really aligned with any other kind of actual like far right political activism. Um, he was just into weird, he was into like dressing up as a, as a wizard and talking about weird narcissism and fascism online. And then he tried to kill the vice president. Um, did he like, if near her, was this like an impulse thing or is this like a long planned? I think he did live nearby. I mean, I, I believe it's, I mean, she was in the capital city. So yeah. Yeah. Well, it's a, it's a, it's a big place. You could walkably. You can, you can, you can, you can get around if you're dedicated. There's a million people around the city of which cities again. I got, I can't remember. I can't remember either. I, you know, I, I, I think who's to say, who's to say? So yes, this is, this is the story of the, uh, not assassination that was attempted a few weeks ago in Argentina and the guy behind it who should have just learned to play D&D. Um, like honestly. Yeah. Oh, well, he did not. It's probably gonna spend a long time in jail now. Probably mean he, he did not kill the vice president, but he did put a gun in his face and tried to pull the trigger to tie it in front of tons of, yeah, fortunately, that gets you to attempted assassination. Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think it's, I think even if he, even if he didn't know how to chamber his around properly. Yeah. Once again, the master race prevails. So yeah. And any, any other notes on, uh, on this guy or the stuff in Argentina, any, any comments, comments from the, from the gallery? No, fast enough stuff. Again, this is, this is, this is, he is so much less cool and worse if an assassin than the big guy. This guy sucks. Yeah. No, compared to, he's, he's, he's, he's the, probably the least based guy we're gonna be talking about. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, right. Like, at least at all was successful in sending someone into neareth. Oh, God, you can buy Nimrod's books on Yeah. That's a problem. Yeah. Spensing some of those. That is, you shouldn't be able to do that. Come on. He has a Twitter account. Yeah. All right. Let's just read some of these tweets. I mean, English or Spanish? Uh, Spanish. Drop the links. But I can, I can, I can do Google translate. Um, um, oh, we're talking about Zionist terrorism. Um, the myth of the Holocaust. I mean, it's, again, it's, oh, the myth of the Holocaust. He's a Nazi. He's a Nazi. He's, he's a, what are you, what are you gonna expect? Physical reaction to that last one. But yes. So this, this, this was the guy that had this symbol that, that, that had the weird, uh, the weird combination of the Rune symbol that, uh, that the assassin liked the books of and used the symbology of on his Facebook. I just, I just sent the writers of a Twitter account to the Cool Zone chat. Um, I do, um, once, once I go to Nimrod's Twitter page on the Who To Follow section, it recommends Alex Hunter, do you can? Good. Yeah. So that, this, this was the guy, I, I had vaguely read somewhere that this guy, like, like, do you get yourself to be also, isn't he dead? I believe he's dead. So who's running the Twitter account? Well, he hasn't posted for a while. These are like 26,000. Some, some, some lackey is using the Twitter. He died in 1997. Okay, so this is like, yeah, all right. This is like some lackey is, is, is, is posting on his account to plug his books. Um, um, yeah, he's retreating the phalanche. It's like, lots of the people he retweet, you go to their account and it's like, yeah, this account is temporary and available because it violates Twitter's media policy. Yeah. I wonder, I wonder why I wonder what's in there. Oh, yeah. I do like, um, Nimrod's website is down, which is good. That is, that is nice. Um, his official website is, is, is offline. So that's good. Um, it sucks that his book started Amazon, but, you know, it's good that he's dead. What can you do? It is, it is, it is good that he's dead. Um, so he is dead. The vice president is not and the assassin's probably gonna be in jail for a long time. And, uh, that's the episode. Hey there. My name is Lauren Oberg and I'm a journalist and a podcast host. I'm also allowed talker, a dog owner and a Pittsburgher among other descriptors that end in ER. Oh, and as of late 2020, I'm also officially autistic, which came as a surprise because I don't fit into a lot of the stereotypes about autism. On my new show, The Loudest Girl in the World, I'm going to walk you through my own experience. From the time my sixth grade teacher put me in a cardboard box to shut me up to the time I melt it down as an adult over a caper in my soup to my decision at age 42 to finally get evaluated for autism. Listen to The Loudest Girl in the World on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Roy Wood Jr. host of the Daily Show Podcast Beyond the Scenes and we are back for season two. Beyond the Scenes is the podcast where we go even deeper into segments and topics we covered on the show, but there are topics that deserve a little more time, a little more finesse details, you know? So this season, we're bringing on more daily show writers, producers and correspondence. We're bringing on more experts to drop knowledge on all sorts of topics. You're going to get some knowledge that you can't get anywhere else. We're breaking it down the season too. We're talking gentrification. We talking gun laws, book banning, black trailblazers in fashion, all the trash ways that people treat flight attendants as well. And shout out to the flight attendants. How you keeping a safe answer you've got time to give me a Bisc golf cookie? Respect. Listen to Beyond the Scenes on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. It don't matter when you get it, baby, just find us. You love movies or maybe just the need us to recommendations on what new movies to watch next time you sit down for on the TV. Well, I have the podcast for you. Hey, this is Mike D for Movie Mike's Movie Podcast. You're a go to source for all things movies and no matter the genre what you're into, whether it be comedy's romance, action, side by horror, superhero movies, I cover it all. I'm no critic. I'm just a guy who loves movies. Each episode explores a different movie topic, plus spoiler free reviews on the latest new movies in theaters and on streaming. And yes, they're always spoiler free so you don't have to worry about anything getting ruined for you. Plus interviews with actors, directors, and writers covering the behind the scenes of your favorite movies. I also keep you in the know with all the latest movie news and movie trailers. Listen to new episodes of Movie Mike's Movie Podcast every Monday on the Nashville Podcast Network available on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts. This is Assassination Week. Oh God, my left arm padded hurts so much. My lung doesn't feel so good. Ronald Wilson Reagan, six, six, six, six letters in any way, whatever. I'm Robert Evans. This is it could happen here. A podcast about assassinating world leaders. That's why it's called it could happen here. And today we're talking about a time where it did when John Hinckley, Jr. shot Ronald Wilson Reagan. With me today, James Stout, Garrison Davis, and of course, the ghost of Ronald Reagan, who is a regular contributor to our to our podcast series along with the ghost of the queen. Now the ghost of the queen has joined the team. Very excited. So obviously, John Hinckley shot Reagan in 1981. We're going to get into a lot of detail about Mr. Hinckley's life. This is something that is joked about a lot on the internet, including by me. But you know, it's interesting because there's there's two strains of people who will like come out and tell you what's not cool to joke about John Hinckley Jr. shooting Ronald Reagan. And one of them is right, which are the people who are like, well, actually like it's pretty messed up story. And he like it's it's kind of messed up to laugh about this family's tragedy because it was a family's tragedy. And the other people are like, no, it's fucked up because he had the hots for Jodie Foster. And what was actually going on? There was a lot more complicated than that. So we're going to talk about all of the things that happened in this shooting, which was messed up and which I probably shouldn't joke about on Twitter. Because it's actually really bleak. And in order to understand both why it's sad on a personal level and why it's a tragedy for the entire country. Yeah, I'm just going to start by talking about John Warnock, Hinckley Jr. who was born on May 29th, 1955, and Ardmore, Oklahoma, which is about two and a half hours from where I grew up in Oklahoma. Unlike me, John's dad, who was John Warnock, Hinckley's senior was the chairman and president of Vanderbilt energy. So they had lots of money, a lot of walking around money and yeah, Vanderbilt money. Yeah. And like most people who have good money, they don't stay in Oklahoma. They have any owls and at the Vanderbilt's big owls. I'm certain they did add owls to this story as you picture John's childhood. So there riches howl and they get the fuck out of Oklahoma and move to Dallas, Texas when John was four, which is so far weirdly like my life in a lot of ways, although I was a bit older. Maybe that's why I didn't get the madness. So that's not why normally getting kids away from Oklahoma really, really fix this stuff. But John was taken. Yeah, John was taken to the only place more toxic than small town, Oklahoma, a wealthy neighborhood in the Dallas Fort Worth Metroplex. He attended Highland Park High School, the school where I would later lose several speech and debate competitions and win one or two as well. It's where if you if you're in the DFW area, the rich kids who don't have good drugs go to Highland Park, the rich kids with good drugs go to Jesuit because they're private school kids. But Highland Park is like the rich kids who are going to like try to sell your shitty ditch wheat. Anyway, these are this is important Dallas Fort Worth context and I assume it was the same when he was a child. As far as I've ever found any information, he was a pretty normal young man for that time and place. There's no one really seems to notice anything particularly different about him. He does reasonably well in school. Later in life, he's going to express some racist thoughts in his diary and in other writings prior to the shooting. It doesn't really seem to have ever been a motivating factor in his life and to the extent that he had regressive beliefs, they seem to have been due to the fact that he grew up in a sheltered, rich, all white environment. And that's not great for you. Um, shocked. Yeah, shocked. One right in Texas, no less. Yeah. One right up in the new Republic describes his childhood. This way, perhaps it is fear of what lies outside that makes the interior of the family so rigid and subdued like life in a well run bunker. The world of the Hinkley's was the rootless middle class sunbelt culture that nurtures pro family values, Christian fundamentalism and occasional mass murderers. Families move frequently, but without compromising their parochialism everywhere. People are white, Christian Republican. Joanne explains Johnson Grecius prejudices by saying he had never been around people of other races. Somewhere outside, there are malign elements, minority groups, rock musicians, big government and the cynical, cosmos, cosmopolites who dominate the media. Mothers in this culture do not lavish attention on their children, but on their furniture. Now, that is a coastal liberal elite like fucking paragraph trying to describe like people who grow up in this situation as someone else who grew up in a similar area. I think most of that is pretty silly. And more to the point, it doesn't get to why John does this. We're getting to why John does this. It's not because he grew up sheltered and a little racist. That is not why he shoots the president. Um, there is however a bit of that that that does strike me as accurate as again, a kid who grew up near here a couple of decades later, which is the description of his childhood as life in a well run bunker, which is kind of how it feels to live in these wealthy enclave in the Dallas Fort Worth area. I grew up in Plano, which is, you know, a couple of steps down the economic rung from Highland Park, but not all that far. And, um, yeah, that's that's not a bad description of it. It just doesn't generally lead to kids shooting the president. More often, it leads to them shooting up heroin and then dying of heroin overdoses, which was the big problem in Plano when I was a kid. That said, it's also worth noting that his parents are not as far as I can find like 50 stereotypes like his dad's not this super masculine guy who's like mentally abusive to his kid. His his moms not like checked out. Neither of them are against the idea that their son might have a mental illness and need help for it. In fact, it seems like they're kind of more open to the idea of reaching out for professional mental health for their kid than a lot of parents would have been at the same time period. In 1976, John drops out of Texas tech to go to Hollywood and try to make it as a musician. Again, his parents are very supportive of him. Uh, one cannot say they didn't try to help their son live his dreams when he gave up on music and he wanted to be a writer. They paid for him to take a class at Yale. Uh, we'll get to that in a second. It doesn't go well. Um, because he's yeah, anyway. But John's not being honest with his ambitions nor is he open with his parents about his mental health. We now know that John developed schizophrenia as a young man and had a series of psychotic breaks when he would get money to do stuff like this Yale writing class. He would take it and buy guns. He did go to Yale, but it was mainly to stock Jody Foster who was going to Yale at the same time. Um, now this is all occurring in the late 1970s and early 1980s, which is the fucking dark ages for treatment of this particular condition and a lot of other conditions. There are not a lot of good options among other things. I just said he's not open with his parents about the fact that his mental health is declining. I don't know how he really could have been. I don't understand. I don't think it's likely. It's certainly not the case this didn't happen to John, but I don't think it's very likely for a young man in this time and place to be well equipped by his education or society to express what is going on in his head to his parents. Um, and it's, you know, to be fair to his parents, they're not equipped with a lot of like, you know, an ability to really help him out here and they're doing the things you would want them to do. Again, they repeatedly are bringing in professionals to try to help. Um, none of it is particularly useful, but it's not for lack of trying. Um, like a lot of people who struggle with similar mental health issues, John seeks refuge in fiction. Unfortunately, for everybody, the movie that he finds himself most drawn to is taxi driver. And I think most people are aware of this part of it. Oh boy. Yeah. It's a bad choice. That's a really bad choice. Yes. If he had found maybe adventure time or something, it would have been a lot healthier. But instead taxi driver, if you haven't seen it, there's the main characters is kid Travis Bickle played by a very young Robert in arrow. It is weird to watch him because we're also used to old man bobden arrow, um, who is thinking about assassinating like a presidential candidate and then kind of through movie magic rescues a child prostitute played by Jody Foster from a Pimp. Um, and hinkley thinks the movie is kind of talking to him and providing him with like information about how he can fix his own life. He starts dressing like Travis Bickle. He starts wearing like an army jacket boots and drinking the way that Bickle drank. He starts buying guns. He gets really into guns for, you know, um, he start, you know, in letters that he's writing home to his parents. He starts talking about this relationship he has with a woman named Lynn who isn't real, but who sounds a lot like one of the women that Travis Bickle has an interest with in the movie. Um, and yeah, this is kind of the start of his obsession with Jody Foster. And there are people who will like say that he's a pedophile because she's 13 in the movie. That doesn't seem to be the case when he is actually stalking her and most obsessed with her. She is 18 and he is stalking her in real life and calling her on the phone and stuff, which is like bad and messed up, but he's not into her because she's young in this movie. He's into her because he's kind of losing his mind and obsessing with her, right? So while this is all going on kind of in the late stages of this, his parents bring in a psychiatrist. Um, again, they're, they're willing to fund and support him in seeking professional help. The doctor they wound up getting for him. I don't know if he's a bad doctor for the time, but he's wrong as hell. He kind of looks at the fact that John has been normal quote unquote, and high, quote unquote in high school and like at the start of his college career. And so he looks at this kid who's like seems to be developmentally normal up to a certain point and then goes off the rails and says, well, it's because you were sheltered and coddled by your rich parents and you're just lazy, right? That's, that's, that's what this guy says. So a big part of his like advice to mom and dad is you got to cut him off. You can't, can't keep giving him stuff, can't keep giving him money, can't keep taking care of him. Um, so while this is happening and this guy is like making them make plans for John to be less reliant on his parents, John Hingley is getting way more into guns. He does a lot of target shooting. He also plays a lot of Russian roulette with himself alone in his basement, which is not, not great. Um, in Christmas of 1979, he takes a very famous photo of himself holding a handgun to his temple. Now, John is increasingly harassing Jody Foster in this period. Now, what he's doing is not, he is not just obsessing with her and it's one sided. He is reaching her on the phone. They talk a couple of times. I don't know that. Yes, they do. Uh, she is always very terse in their calls. Always, you can tell is kind of frightened, but is very controlled and careful. I would describe the way she handles this is very responsible and like, you can tell she's talked with like people, I think like her manager or something and been like, I have been advised like, I don't want you calling it. She's very, tries to be very clear here. Um, and I think handles this as well as a person can possibly handle, you know, being stalked in this way. I believe he's able to get her number because like, it's the 80s and people just have numbers in the phone book. Um, again, she's kind of taking a break from Hollywood right now and is going to Yale. Um, his obsession with Foster veers between these kind of like fantasies of like harming her or harming a guy that she's with, uh, or harming himself and eventually harming the president of the United States. Now he is not want to shoot the president for political reasons. He has no kind of particular anger at the president that he wants to work out with a gun. He wants number one to impress her and he wants everyone to know his name and know his name associated with Jody Foster, right? Because again, he's very ill. Um, he starts following Jimmy Carter around. He goes to like three different Jimmy Carter rallies in DC and in Dohaio. There's video of him 20 feet away from Carter at one point. He probably has a gun on him. Um, like he gets really close to Carter. Uh, again, one of the through lines here is that like, presidential security wasn't great in it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it gets not very good. Um, got cart John thinks about shooting Carter. He's probably there and equipped to do it. But he just can't get himself into the frame of mind to shoot Jimmy Carter, which is understandable because it is Jimmy Carter, right? Like he is hard man to want to shoot today. So there's a moment where he like, yeah, so he's kind of bouncing around after this period where he like is he thinks about shooting Carter, but he doesn't. He is in communication with this Nazi ideal log and they almost have a meeting, but they don't. Um, that's all kind of obscure kind of unclear. And then on October 6, 1980, he gets arrested at the Nashville airport with a briefcase full of handguns and a pair of handcuffs. Now, who's the youngest assets? Yeah. Among us has not been in this situation. Pick up the gunbag and oops. Yep. He's wrong. He says he's just trying to sell them. And they're like, well, you still can't get on a plane with a bunch of guns, Johnny Glitchin here. This is pre 9 11. This is pre 9 11. So he, you have to assume he's looking weird. He's like sweaty and in an army jacket and talk and do it. And they're like, well, we've literally never searched a single person before in the entire life of this airport. But let's check this guy. Yeah. What's this massively heavy. Yeah. There's a fucking, there's a dude just walking in with a stinger and they're like, no, no, let that guy on. But we got to check, Johnny Glick. Um, so he flies to Dallas where he buys more handguns and some explosive 22 caliber bullets. We will talk about that in a little bit, but they are explosive bullets for a save. Got 22 caliber bullets. Yes. Yes. They are bullets that are meant to explode on impact. It's like reading soldier of fortune magazine at this point because this nobody sees like a gun culture. So I have, we have to assume. I think his family is kind of casually conservative. He is kind of maybe as is embodied by the Nazi thing, probably dabbling in some areas again. I think that's probably that's certainly not good for him. It's also I don't think politics. I haven't seen any real evidence that politics is a motivating factor in what this guy is doing. He does get explosive bullets. Probably helps that he has explosive bullets in terms of making this less dangerous. These are not good explosive bullets. They are meant to be fired out of a larger weapon than he fires them out of. But they are supposed to basically the idea is these are 22 caliber rounds. So the idea is that this little explosive charging them makes them more like a 38. So we're not talking about like military grade weaponry or anything here. Why is he doing, oh, you may not know of course. But like if he's a massive gun dog, why is that a massive? No, gun culture is different than right. He's buying a bunch of handguns. He's shooting a lot. I don't know that it would be he's not particularly good or knowledgeable with. Yeah. Right. Okay. Yeah. I see. But gun culture is very it's harder to get information about guns. Right. Maybe the day he would have gotten a lot more into. You're like just flipping to magazines. Exactly. You can't you can't like look something up online. Yeah. Yeah. He's 22 good for assassination. Just exactly. And and this is also like this is what he can afford. Right. He gets kind of a he's lost his better guns. Right. They've been their property of the state. So he winds up with this 22 and he gets these explosive bullets to try to make it give more of a kick. Obviously, the thing that's going on in the background here is that Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan are having a presidential election, which Reagan wins. We'll talk a little bit about kind of that. A bit later, but that happens. Reagan is the president elect. He flies home. Hinkley flies home. Things continue to deteriorate in his own life. He's continuing to like travel around. John Lennon is assassinated and he kind of goes a little bit nuts over that because he loves John Lennon. Also might kind of think that he is John Lennon. So that does not help his mental state. He visits the the the the the the what is it? The shrine to him in New York at one point and kind of when he gets back in March of 1981, his dad cuts him off. Basically, like says, you know, you've got your huge car. Here's $200. We can't take care of you anymore, John. And I think this is his dad basically trying to take that psychiatrist advice of like it. We need to have tough love. He has to be forced to kind of get his shit together. But John Hinkley is not really capable of getting his shit together because he is profoundly ill. So he uses that money to pay for hotel rooms in Denver where he sits alone watching television with a gun. Not great treatment for schizophrenia. Reagan wins the election in what was a sweep electorally, but fairly tight in terms of popular vote. He's got like 50.5% of the popular vote. Something like that is pretty close. And soon after taking office, he gets hammered on a bunch of stuff, right? The economy's not great. He's this he's he's back. He's like going for a bunch of far right policies to unwind the new deal. A lot of which are unpopular in some of which he said he wasn't going to do and debates with Carter. He's not he doesn't have the kind of traditional grace period. Most presidents get where they're broadly popular, right? It's not looking great for kind of the midterms is what I'm getting at. So Reagan staff is struggling to write the ship trying to figure out like how do we how do we fix all this? Reagan or Hinkley while this is going on gets convinced that like shooting the president is a pretty good idea. It doesn't have a lot of other options. He's kind of like running out of money and he's able to get a little bit more from his mom, but he's he's increasingly unhinged and alone and desperate. On March 29th, he checks into a hotel in DC where he finds in a local paper the president's schedule. He loads his 22 caliber revolver. He writes a letter to Jody Foster and he travels to the Hilton where the president is set to deliver a speech to union workers. Here is how John's letter to her ends quote, I will admit to you that the reason I'm going ahead with this attempt now is because I just cannot wait any longer to impress you. I've got to do something now to make you understand and no one certain terms that I am doing all of this for your sake by sacrificing my freedom and possibly my life. I hope to change your mind about me. This letter is being written only an hour before I leave for the Hilton hotel. Jody, I'm asking you to please look into your heart and at least give me the chance with this historical deed to gain your respect and love. I love you forever, John Hankley. It's not great. Yeah, not a great letter to get. Not a great letter to send. Was this actually delivered in the mail? I believe so. I think this is what she wants up getting this. I mean, she has to come to court and stuff when he goes on trial. It's like something he kind of demands and I think she does to just make it easier for things to move along. Obviously, she does nothing wrong at any point in this process. She's just living her life and this guy is out of his head and has easy access to guns, which is a problem. At 2.27 p.m. on March 30, 1981, John Hankley, Jr. opens fire at the president's entourage from just a few feet away. Reagan had been speaking to a bunch of union guys at this thing at the Hilton anyway. And they're kind of like walking out into towards the lima when this happens. John's first shot hits James Brady, the press secretary and former PR man for Phyllis Schlafly in his head. He then wounds a police officer and a secret service agent. He actually does not hit probably does not I don't I think there's still a little bit of debate because it's like ballistics are kind of fucky. But he probably doesn't directly hit Reagan instead around fragments and bounces off the armored limousine penetrating the president's lung. None of the explosive bullets explode because they're not the right bullets for the gun. The barrel is too short. So it doesn't it might even do less damage than it would have done. Although maybe they fragment because they're these weird explosive bullets and that's why Reagan gets hurt anyway. Hard to say nobody really understands ballistics though that well today. There's a lot of debate over how all this stuff works. Reagan had been in office for 69 days and no real plan existed for what to do if the president gets shot and is alive but is unable to do the job of the president. I'm fucking George H. W. Bush is in the air a bunch of this time and like people can't reach him. They're like he's there I said you need to come back to watch did now. So kind of the people running the country for a few hours is al Hague the secretary of state and like a room full of guys in the cabinet who were all disagreeing about everything and none of whom are constitutionally supposed to be running the country. It's a real big problem like the fucking like the press ask at one point because hey goes out there and try to be like hey the president's in surgery and they're like well who's who's in charge like with the nukes and stuff who's running the country and he's like we got a whole room full of guys don't worry it's all fine and they're like is that with the law says because I don't think that's how it's supposed to go. It's not great. It's actually a real problem and they do they they make a bunch of changes after this to make sure that like we'd never don't know who the president is when if this kind of thing happens at least. But on a political level this is fucking gangbusters for the Reagan administration and I'm going to quote from a write up an L pi here. The assassination attempt silenced criticism of his administration at a critical point early in his term explains H. W. Brand's author of the biography Reagan the life in an email the good humor he exhibited during his recovery he spent only 12 days in the hospital convinced many skeptics some of his followers believed that God had forgiven him to allow him to finish his work and it is possible that Reagan thought so too. On the 30th anniversary of the assassination attempt journalist Del Winton Wilbur published Raw Hyde Down a thorough investigation of full of revelations of what happened that day. The book is written in the style of true crime and its title is a reference to the secret service codename given to Reagan. Raw Hyde Joe Biden's codename is Celtic and Donald Trump's was mogul it features two important conclusions firstly it argues that Reagan became the first president since Eisenhower to serve two terms because of the way he and his team handled the assassination attempt and secondly the White House did not reveal the seriousness of Reagan's injuries he walks into the hospital and then stops breathing and collapses. Like he walks in specifically because he wants to be seen walking in and it's like they don't know that he's been shot at first it's not like bleeding a bunch outside he's bleeding internally so it's this is like legitimately the best case scenario it would have been hard to figure out what had happened to him kind of because you can't immediately tell that he's bleeding a lot of people have been shot and so everyone just kind of assumes he's having a heart attack which is why they take him to the hospital he thinks actually I think he believes that his secret service agent broke his ribs getting him into the limo. But if they take him to the White House first he would have fucking died he loses half of his blood in the surgery like it's that's a point which is like bad if you lose half your blood that's not like a great injury. It's his lung collapsing is that what's happening? Like yeah they've got him on oxygen and stuff he's like barely able to joke with the doctors which he does which is one of the things that like goes viral from this and makes him so popular because he's he's yucking it up. Oh Ronnie. Um, his yeah this is believe there's a number of massive long term fucking consequences to this one of them is that this is why Nancy brings in Joan Quigley the astrologer like this is when she you could refer back to behind the bastard's two part or on the Reagan astrologer but this is why the Reagan astrologer becomes like they start they stopped having him do events when the astrologer says it's a bad day for it and shit because like Nancy this kind of breaks her and it also kind of breaks Ronald. He's not the same man after getting shot which to be fair he is 70 when this happens so getting shot in the lug at 70 most people are going to come back all the way. This is also probably doesn't help the Alzheimer's may accelerate the timetable there but on a political level this goes fucking great for the Republicans and it allows them to do a lot of really fucked up shit and I'm going to quote from CNN here. Today Reagan is the only modern president who receives high marks from Republicans Democrats and independents alike. A look at the polls can quantify the roots of this enduring goodwill despite a electoral landslide over Jimmy Carter with a 44 state win in 1980 Reagan won a narrow popular margin of 50.7 percent more over gallops valuable presidential poll trackers shows that Reagan's approval ratings were significantly split along partisan lines after his 1981 inauguration with 74 percent Republican support and 53 percent from independence but 38 percent from Democrats when Reagan came back to the Capitol on April 28th to push for his economic recovery act he was greeted by a heroes welcome in a three minute standing ovation. He leveraged his political capital to help publish passes agenda before the end of the summer the Reagan tax cuts had passed the House of Representatives led by Democratic speaker Tip O Neal and the Republican controlled Senate reducing the top tax rates from a confiscatory 70 percent and unleashing an entrepreneurial era. That's how CNN catarises that guy. That's what we got to call it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and in 1984 Reagan wins 49 states and 59 percent of the popular vote. It is very clear kind of how this happens and what this allows Reagan to do. It's fascinating because you have in Britain like less than a year later. Oh, right. We have Margaret Fatcher right like who is similarly not doing very well. Yeah. Until she gets to go to war for two tiny little cold islands in the Atlantic than the one you were about before. Like and then they proceed to just ravage like the like post world war two social democracy consensus. Just fuck it up and fucking here we are now here we are 2022 and people are kind of die of cold in Britain this winter. I will say in terms of just to be fair one of the things people will say is a positive from this is that this is one of the things that helps push the arms treaty deals with the Soviet Union because Reagan has like God saved me for a reason and maybe it's to make nuclear war less likely. That's a bigger topic than today. It's a thing that he will claim and generally speaking the fact that the Soviet Union and Reagan started talking about nukes during this period is not a bad thing. Always good to be talking about nukes. But yeah, what I will say if we're looking at kind of the only clearly good thing that came out of this shooting it's the fact that the justice system actually worked in this one instance pretty much exactly how you would want it to Hinkley was clearly not mentally competent to understand his actions what he had done or to stand trial and he was declared not guilty by reason of insanity. His father, tearful, took blame for the shooting for cutting his son off from resources. The psychiatrist who had botched his diagnosis admitted his mistakes on the stand and expressed regret. Hinkley was sent to a psychiatric facility where he received decades of treatment and the treatment seems to have really helped him. On December 17th 2003 a federal judge ruled that Hinkley was entitled to unsupervised visits with his parents. This is five years before his dad died so they get time together again. In 2007 he has a request for unsupervised visits as long as one month. This is denied. Not because of any problems but because of issues the hospital had not taken to prepare for the transition. In July of 2016, Judge Paul Friedman concluded that Hinkley did not pose a threat to himself or others and ordered him released. The conditions initially limited him to his residence where he lived with his mother and parts of southern California. He was obviously forbidden from contact with past a president, presidents of the United States or any of their family members or graves from banning. He was banned from contact with Jody Foster or other entertainers. He was prohibited from watching violent movies, television or online media. In 2018 a restriction confining him to his mother's house ended. He can now live anywhere he wants with doctors approval. And on September 27th 2021, John Hinkley Jr. age 66 was approved for unconditional release by district judge Paul Friedman. Friedman noted that quote, very few patients at St. Elizabeth's hospital have been studied more thoroughly than John Hinkley. And again, that's pretty much how it ought to work, right? Like, yeah, he shoots the president, but clearly because he's sick and you don't just punish sick people when they don't know what they've done. So he gets treated for decades until he's better. And now he's able to live a life. Yes. Yeah. Really good. By surprising. It is very surprising. And part of why it's surprising is that one of the other negative lingering effects of John Hinkley attempting to shoot the president is that a lot of changes are made in many states to make it much less likely that people benefit from the same understanding judicial system that John Hinkley Jr. does. Okay, I'm going to quote now from a write up from famous, which has a pretty good, pretty good bit on just kind of everything that happened here. It's a fair, pretty fair summary, I think, within a month of the Hinkley verdict, the House and Senate were holding hearings on the insanity defense, a measure proposed by Senator Arlen Specter shifted the burden of proof of insanity to the defense. President Reagan expressed his support for the measure with the comment. If you start thinking about even a lot of your friends, you would have to say, gee, if I had to prove they were saying I would have a hard job. Maybe that tells us more about you. Maybe that says a lot about your administration who are, by the way, at this point, deep in like Iran, Contra, shit selling cocaine and any of what we were talking about all of this on an upcoming episode of bastards. But like, yeah, they're all monsters. Joining Congress and shifting the burden of proof were a number of states within three years after the Hinkley verdict, two thirds of the states placed the burden on the defense to prove insanity. While eight states adopted a separate verdict of guilty, but mentally ill, and one state, Utah abolished the defense altogether. Yeah. Always delivering. So the system works really well for John Hinkley, Jr. And I think, I think they changed it. I think the Justice Department of the United States, this is maybe one of probably in history. You will not find many cases of a guy shooting an active world leader and being treated ethically by the justice system. Like he's handled very reasonably, I think. And never again, never again, well, that happened for anybody, even if they don't shoot the press. So, yeah. Obviously, I wish John Hinkley, Jr. Well, I hope his musical career goes fine. I fuck Ronald Reagan, hate him. And yeah, it's probably made the world a lot worse that John Hinkley, Jr. tried to shoot Ronald Reagan because it empowered Ronald Reagan. One of the lessons here, if we're talking about assassinations, is that it's a real wild card as trying to assassinate a president or any other politician. And as a general rule, people are kind of programmed to think that somebody's cool if they get shot and don't die. Like it's one of the cooler things that like, look, it just objectively, it's what do you do if you want to show John McLean as hard as how you can get like hitting the arm or something and just like work through it, right? Like what do people people talk about? Like Teddy Roosevelt when he was shot and how bad it was that he gave it bad acid was that he gave a speech or how cool it is that fucking Andrew Jackson, you know, they don't say any of these things about is JFK. That's right. They don't because dying is not cool. Cause dying's not cool. Not cool at all. Yeah. Over the roof of a church. Yeah. Lame as hell. Yeah. But like, you know, this is the, look, if if you want John F. Kennedy to stop being the president and you can successfully kill him, you will get what you want. He's no longer the president. Um, if you were to have a political motivation, and again, Hinckley does it. Hinckley is not thinking about the top marginal tax rate when he does this. Um, but if you, if that had been his goal, this is the opposite of that, right? Because it just makes Reagan look cool and helps him makes everybody feel like an asshole for fighting him for a while. So like he gets a bunch of shit through and also a bunch of laws get worse for mentally ill people. And in on the whole bad bad bad assassination. That is zero zero. Yeah. I have to say based on based on the evidence we have here, shooting Ronald Reagan, not a good idea. They don't do it. No. They let the whole team down. And we should just plug his album. It's out on us best. We should plug his out. Because again, he's not responsible for this. Yeah. I know. I think he's, if he's happy singing songs, I'm happy for him. Yes. Yes. I wish you the best of luck. John, you can buy his T shirt. He's got T shirts that he's trying to move, which I don't know. I don't think it's bad to encourage his music career. Like seriously, like we're all doing it with a little bit of a smile. But what's the harm? If John Hinckley, Jr. thinks that people like his music, that doesn't hurt anybody. Yeah. And maybe if people can see that like if you treat people with mental illnesses, like people who are ill, not fucking terrible people, then they can get to a place where they can sing songs on YouTube. And that's good. That's an example. Again, of the only time it worked the way it should. But it didn't work out pretty well in this case. Yeah. So I don't know. Yeah. Take whatever lessons you want to out of this. Many, many possible things can be a lot of a lot of different lessons we can take out of this much. Don't hire our egg. But I feel like that's that's a generally good lesson. Yeah. There's a Phoenix Punch bank called Jodi Foster's army. I've just read this well who makes songs by him. Great. By their records too. Fine. Yes. No strong opinions on that either way. Anyone else got anything to say about John Hinckley, Jr. or the assassination attempt on Ronnie Rohehr Reagan. Also, we're talking about the IRA a lot this week, probably not for nothing, that Joe Biden's codename is Celtic. And the queen dies now. Makes you think you're telling me it's a coincidence. I still suspect Liz Truss, especially. I think that maybe Joe Biden shook hands with Liz Truss and like like transferred a nerve poison onto her hand. And then she touched the queen. Definitely possible. She wants to sweep Joe sipping again us on the plain back, knowing that he's done his job in his battle clover. Yeah. And it's probably that first one. Anyway, hopefully nobody who has stuff going on listens to that and takes the wrong message out of it. Yeah. No. Kind to one another. Anyway, we're done. Hey there. My name is Lauren Over and I'm a journalist and a podcast host. I'm also a loud talker, a dog owner and a Pittsburgher among other descriptors that end in ER. Oh, and as of late 2020, I'm also officially autistic, which came as a surprise because I don't fit into a lot of the stereotypes about autism. On my new show, The Loudest Girl in the World, I'm going to walk you through my own experience. From the time my sixth grade teacher put me in a cardboard box to shut me up to the time I melt it down as an adult over a caper in my soup to my decision at age 42 to finally get evaluated for autism. Listen to The Loudest Girl in the World on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Roy Wood Jr. host of The Daily Show Podcast Beyond the Scenes and we are back for season two. Beyond the Scenes is the podcast where we go even deeper into segments and topics we covered on the show, but there are topics that deserve a little more time, a little more finesse details, you know. So this season, we're bringing on more daily show writers, producers and correspondence. We're bringing on more experts to drop knowledge on all sorts of topics. You can get some knowledge that you can't get anywhere else. We're breaking it down the season too. We're talking gentrification. We talking gun laws, book banning, black trailblazers in fashion, all the trash ways that people treat flight attendants as well. And shout out to the flight attendants. How you keeping a safe and still got time to give me a biscope cookie? Respect. Listen to Beyond the Scenes on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. It don't matter when you get it, baby, just find us. Listen to new episodes of Movie Mike's Movie Podcast every Monday on the Nashville Podcast Network available on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts. Prime Minister Abe was a champion of democracy and a firm believer that no economy, society, or country can achieve its full potential if women are left behind. I am shocked and devastated by his assassination, a loss for Japan and our world. JK, this is Assassination Week. Who's assassinating my ex former Prime Minister of Japan? It's it's assassination week. It is it is I would kind of I would somewhat vangloriously argue the capstone of assassination week. It is the episode about the assassination that started it all. And by that I mean we are we are we are here talking about the assassination of one Shinzo Abe. This is this is going to be a slightly different episode both to the rest of the assassination week episodes and to the other episode we did on the assassinations of Abe. Partly because basically the day after within about two days of the our episodes original episode about the Abe assassination dropping. There was confirmation that the reason Abe was killed was because of his connection to an organization called the Unification Church, which is I think better locally known as the Moonies. People might have listened to the very very long episode I did about it. But yeah there is there is an enormous amount going on there. And this is something that fortunately we have experts for and yeah so so joining us to talk about this assassination and the Moonies and sort of I don't know the sort of weirdness and the horror around everything that's been happening around the assassination is antifascist researcher Elisa Mejubo. Yeah Elisa is a antifascist researcher specializing in cults who's working with deprogramming imperialism which is a collective of ex moonies who've been documenting just sort of all of the shit the moonies have been getting up to and trying to get more awareness of really the just incredible array of awful stuff that they've been doing. Yeah so Elisa welcome to the show. Hi thanks for having me I really appreciate it. Yeah and thank you thank you so much for joining us for this. I don't know why I'm saying us as if there's someone other than me this episode at you but you know old habits die hard I guess I guess I've inherited the royal wee which is not great oh well so someone will have to assassinate me soon that's fine. Sometimes it happens hope it doesn't happen to you though you seem to have that that would not be the best assassination target on us. Yeah so okay I guess the place I think we should start is talking about what we found out about this assassin in the last sort of few months since this happened which is that when when the initial police reports came out there was a bunch of very very murky stuff about basically the police were like this wasn't a political killing it was about some organization and I think me and you and every single other person who was like even potentially aware of Japanese politics saw them say like an organization and was like oh no there's like a one in three chances at the booties. Yeah that's yeah I saw like I when they said something about like organization or religious organization I was like yeah I was like hmm oh yeah and it turns out that okay so the assassin is a man named Tatsuya Yamagami who was a a Navy veteran um yeah made a a series of unbelievably based and incredibly wild firearms with which he assassinated the former Prime Minister of Japan what what we've learned since then is that the reason he did this was that his basically like his family and his like life were completely destroyed by his mom falling into this cult and by her I mean she she she gave this cult set like something like seven hundred thousand dollars yeah like roughly seven hundred and twenty thousand U.S. dollars yeah like literal like like multiple fortunes like she she she she gave them all of her money and then she sold the company that like she had been running to give them more money and yeah what what what basically as best we can tell this happened was that he was he was looking at a way to like get back at the booties um and basically the problem was he okay so if he didn't want to kill civilians which I think is admirable and he couldn't figure out a way to like get at any of the like individual church leaders and so he's the thing he decided to do was go after Shinzo Abe because as as we're going to get to it in a in a bit I Shinzo Abe lots of connections with the innovation church a thing that all of the people like writing glowing obituries about him I just like incredibly don't want to mention yeah it's been left out of a lot of shit yeah and okay so I guess to back up a little bit um can for for for people who sort of don't know what this is or for people who like may have heard of impudenture refresher can you talk a bit about what what what what the education church actually is and yeah we can we can sort of go from there yeah definitely okay so the unification church are the moonies they are a quote unquote a new religious movement or pretty much a cult you know yeah they're very culty and they're a cult and they were started by Samyang moon who was originally from what is now North Korea and so basically this guy he claims he's the Messiah has this originally it started out as like a sex cult under a practice called I think Picardom which is basically he was supposed to quote unquote cleanse a woman's like a relationship to God by having sex with her so he assaulted a number of people doing this stuff and the church over the years has sort of like developed into more of a multinational corporation and political movement and it has a lot of tools I mean a lot of ties and connections to various governments around the world including Japan and is basically at the end of the day a tool of United States imperialism there's some pretty pretty direct ties to like the Korean CIA yeah as well as the US CIA so yeah it's like this big umbrella of like groups different NGOs different like businesses a bunch it's just a whole conglomeration of things right but very extremely virulently anti communist and you know involved in some of some of the greatest hits of the last century like Iran contra like I yeah what yeah great hits for us and what what what we say involved in Iran contra like okay there's lots of people who are like sort of involved in a written contra the moonies like there there is a decent there you can you can make the arguments that if the moonies had not been doing what they were doing in Nicaragua Iran contra wouldn't have been able to happen because the civil war would have ended like they like what when I say like we say like like they were involved in the Iran contra like they are like on the ground giving people guns and money and keeping like literally keeping guerrilla organizations and like terrorist groups like in the war who wouldn't have been able to otherwise yeah and then and then also that's the thing like they did to Iran conscious right because they did they did the second Iran contra with like with you know when the CIA actually got money but they were also doing the same thing like before that when the in the sort of stopgap period with the CIA wasn't able to fund the contras so yeah these guys are like they were like background for that money and the other shit yeah so it's yeah they're very very heavily involved like and basically anywhere there is an anti communist desk what like in the world you you can find the news yeah so okay I would say this weirdly the only one I the only one I haven't directly been able to find is I haven't been able to directly find any evidence that they were like that like specifically they were helping peanut like I might as they helping P.O.J okay they they were involved in operation condor and they were like doing shit with that I haven't found evidence they like directly had any conversations with P.O.J but that's he's like the the only person you can say that about and they probably did at some point like but you know like a frail straws yeah like they probably did like I mean again like they were they were they were they were a frail strawsner they were there with what what's that guy's name uh Klaus Barbie the cocaine yeah yeah I can't remember that there's a guy in Bolivia who got installed for like a year and then he got cood I know is yeah no I know who you're talking about but I'm also forgetting his name at the moment yeah no he's funny because he's one of these guys where it's like you know I had a professor I took a Syrian history class in college right and there I think it's I really should if I was saying it's I really should know the year but there's a year in like the 50s in Syria where there's like four crews in one year and there were like two guys who will technically speaking had like had controllers here they was like I'm just not even telling these guys names because they get overthrown in like two months and like that's that's that's this guy yeah yeah yeah but yeah this is a very sort of very serious and deeply scary like desk wide funding machine yeah yeah and that you know has continued to today pretty much so yeah yeah and okay and I think like yeah so yeah there's sort of the desk what side of it um the other thing I wanted to ask you about is about like what it's like being in the church and what it's like sort of I don't know because I I think I think a big part of of what's happening with this story is tattoo a Yamagami like basically watching his family get sucked in and not being able to do anything about it and I was wondering if you could talk a bit about yeah I mean sort of like what what what what what what it's like being in the church and then what it's like just sort of watching it destroy people yeah so um I was born and raised in the church uh I left when I was around 17 it was not it was not nice um pretty much everybody I talked to who was also left uh feels the burden of this like perfect abuse that we had to endure um it was a bleak time for me uh you know there's just so much pressure put on members to follow leadership to do out outrageous amounts of fundraising they have a bunch of these fundraising teams right and they'll they'll go out and they'll sell things and live in a van uh occasionally stopping it like different church centers um to like uh you know sleep for the night or whatever they don't eat well uh they don't get enough sleep you know like you're constantly around other people basically like all all the methods of psychological torture you can do on a person right um which was you know pretty standard throughout the whole movement um now I was lucky enough not to go on any of these fundraising teams because I left before um that could happen but um I still you know definitely feel like the psychological you know fall out from that it's something I'll be healing with uh healing from for the rest of my life um yeah so like there's there's like no accountability for leadership they can do whatever they want but everybody else in the church you know uh has to follow what moon and the regional or national leadership says or the uh the 36 blessed couples who are like some of moon's original followers uh there's it's like extremely hierarchical uh there's a lot of racism within the group a huge amount of sexism that is like you know directly tied into their um their belief system because uh the the fall of man uh according to the moonies was eve having sex with satan and then having sex with um atom and spreading that sin um so just like very inherently misogynistic extremely homophobic and transphobic movement just all around like so much sexual repression like you're not supposed to hold hands kiss do anything before marriage right and then it's only that person well of course moon you know didn't didn't like this didn't apply to him at all he could sleep with anybody's wife pretty much um so yeah it was just altogether a very intense environment uh just so much indoctrination going into the heads of the people who are part of it um yeah just all together shitty group yeah um yeah so for me I I went away to school in another state when I was 14 um it got me like you know the physical distance as well as like the space and time to actually think and reflect on uh what was going on and then I started doing some research online because I was like well maybe what people are saying about it is true maybe it is a cult um and I came across this the tragedy of the six marries which was you know moon uh assaulting a bunch of women uh and that sort of like made me just you know it sort of brought it to a head because I had like you know seen for the longest time how leadership was treated versus how regular members had to live in like poverty um but they got like big mansions and like nice things nice cars expensive watches uh but everybody else had to like give all their money to the church and you know was were like terrorized um and uh then eventually I I was like I think I have to go I like I had been through the process of like meeting the mystical or the the evil other which you know like people outside of the church or you know they're fallen they're like you know basically they have original sins so they're kind of evil right um and gotten to know more people um queer people who were just like a hugely demonized uh group of people within the UC um and here I am today I'm super queer um but like that like hell yeah uh but like getting to know people when actually seeing you know like oh my god what they're saying these people are not evil they're normal they're human they are just different from straight people I don't know uh that to me also made like a huge difference um and then when I was 17 uh I went to another school and I was like I want to get laid I've had enough of this so I went out and did that and that felt like you know once I finally lost my virginity it felt like sealing the deal I'm like if I have to go to hell now okay and it was cool because God didn't and like immediately smite me where I where I was in bed at that point like I lived and I'm here to tell the tale so yeah that's how I left that rule size is a much more gay of a story if I was expecting which is all which is always a good thing yeah it could it reminds me a lot of like the stories of sort of like of people leaving like the really right wing like evangelical music right see it like a lot of it reminds me of quiverful but like yeah more intense I think well it's like I think like like the the level of I don't know I guess the level of separation yeah I think it's a lot more isolated yeah powerful they seem to be at least sort of like integrated into like other communities and stuff whereas the moonies I don't know like there's definitely like people have friends outside of it but like generally like people kind of keep to the moonies because you know they're supposed to be like gods chosen people or whatever so they yeah and they like looked out on everyone else because they're not moonies so yeah it is it's also interesting to me that like literally the term is just the evil other which is really so I don't think that's a literal term but like that's how I sort of phrase it or whatever but yeah or just like fallen people would be or the fallen world the outsiders is what they would say so just this very you know like very like stigmatizing language that they use for people lots of people are just called evil in the church too they just call people evil like really nilly it's like oh you're satanic like no that's not it yeah not that I don't know how to get a good tradition into this yeah we're we're going to ads yeah so I wanted to also talk about specifically one one of the things that the church does and one of the things like the sort of one of the specific things that tattoo you and mcgamy yeah mcgamy seems to have been suffering from and it will be physically his mom but his sort of whole family is the financial abuse yeah and yeah I wanted to ask you a bit about what that looks like and also there's a lot about the japanese context that I think is slightly different than yeah sort of the american or the korean context I want to ask you a bit about that yeah definitely so across the board unification church members are expected to bring in a lot of money through fundraising through tithing providing free labor or you know low paid labor through church businesses and stuff so the cases though that in japan because of the rhetoric of the church which is you know basically born out of you know the environment in korea so there's basically this thought in the church that they say that korea is the atom nation because that's where you know the messiah came back South korea and and that japan is the ev nations supposed to submit to the atom nation and also sort of pay indemnity which is a big word in the church and for the atrocities committed during the japanese occupation of korea and so this means that japanese members have to pay significantly more for pretty much everything so there's it's like just you know like instead of like a type of reparations where it's like you know will give you money it's like they make them suffer for that fact and so like you know fundraising goals are very high let me see i think i had a figure here somewhere yeah so japanese membership they bring in roughly like 70% of the church's income so a large amount for you know like proportionally not you know there are a lot of members in japan however throughout the world that is like proportionally you know where most of it comes from and then as of several years ago the japanese church fundraising goal was 30 billion yen or around 210 million for that year i believe so just you know and so they they go out selling ancestor liberation is one thing you're supposed to pay exorbitant fees for your ancestors to go to heaven there was a book called the chanson gyeong and that book was extremely expensive and of course much more expensive for members in japan i think i read a figure where i think i don't remember what year it was and it was not very recent i think it might have been like 1992 or something or 2002 or something i'm not sure but it cost like roughly like 200 000 american dollars to go to the marriage ceremony the one of the mass weddings that the moonies do where everybody has arranged marriage arranged married and so yeah just like these huge amounts of money directly flowing from the pockets of the membership and anyone they happen to you know have give them money uh into the coffers of the church and you know directly on up to like the moon family who are billionaires um another thing i'd say here is that uh they often uh so for people who that they're trying to fundraise from uh they often will target like elderly widows and uh people who are you know in sort of precarious places and come to them and say your family member who's passed away once you give this donation to the church uh they also like at one point made up like a fake Buddhist sect in order to like specifically target people so it goes deep there's a there's a lot to that yeah i mean like one of the things i remember bringing those like the yeah they they had like this whole network of like fake mediums yeah you would like like specifically to target people yeah so we target this sort of widows which is like i don't know i just so so much of the stuff that they do is just so incredibly bleak like i think yeah i mean the thing that i'll that got me was the sort of like like the the the the the the the the way in which they're sort of weaponizing like like Japan sort of war crimes in yeah in south korea and north korea as well and it's like is like a on the one hand like yeah like all all all this boy is just going to like a bunch of like too rich fascists and then yeah be like and i think this is something else we could sort of get into is like okay so the the churches main political allies in japan are the people who did all that shit yep yeah so yeah no it's just a constant deflection pretty much yeah and i mean it's interesting too because like you get this like some of the newspapers they fund will like openly say that like japan should rearm again and like japan should like start retaking korea and then like you have the other arm with their business being like hey pay us money for all the people you guys killed in this list i don't know it's yeah it's pretty fuck it's the worst it's honestly yeah yeah and i guess i guess yeah well i i think i think this is as good a place as i need to go into like okay so the moody's like could not do the things that they do in japan without an incredibly large agree of institutional support um part of this is sort of is with the yakuza because like you can't run like you you can't do organized crime stuff like attempt like running an entire network of people to defraud widows like in in japan without the yakuza like you having some kind of deal with them yeah and yeah and and and that that also bizarrely ties in with sort of how how the invocation church got integrated with the sort of mainstream well yeah you know i'm just gonna call them mainstream like fuck it people people people people people will quibble about the different factions of the ldp i frankly don't care for reasons that will get to but yeah how how they got like in yeah i guess we talked about like the origins of how they got ingrained with japan's like perpetual ruling party liberal democratic party yeah um oh yeah yeah i mean i can also go to but yeah okay yeah sorry i wasn't sure that was a question yeah sorry no it's okay um so yeah it goes all the way back to uh like so it goes it goes back pretty far so nobisuka kishi abay's maternal grandfather uh so he initially became sort of embroiled with the uc kind of stuff uh unification church stuff uh in the early days of when the movement um was in japan uh he collaborated on stuff like uh foundation for victory over communism uh spoke at their uh the founding of the organization at a uc church which was i think uh next to kishi's a state or something like that yeah and i i think i think i think he sold them their first building in japan i'm pretty sure if i'm remembering something that i read um at one point right yeah so um so yeah and then uh in 62 the uc was able to convert 50 leaders of the alternation list uh nuchin Buddhist uh sec called seced called uh gosh i don't know how to pronounce this ryo show kose kai uh and they had a lot of strong use yakuza connections um and then uh uh sami kuboki was the first uc president in japan uh he was the yakuza lieutenant and second and command of that group that i had just mentioned uh and and the other thing we should mention about this about the sort of yakuza ties yeah so nobisika kishi is the guy who found liberal democratic the liberal democratic party right like he the liberal democratic party is his creation it is like what that party is is all of japan's conservatives basically like basically seating to his authority and being like okay fine we're gonna follow your lead um and his his party is like his base and his funding is basically a combination of like he kishi himself is a like arch will were to work criminal his his base is basically in the old japan his fascists he yeah is funded by like well partially funded like funded directly by the cia um he's also funded by but the cia in particular here is working through the yakuza because one of what let's just one of the sort of the the will like will there be in this sort of like well will there be senate qca but yeah then basically american intelligence the american army starts working through the yakuza is like an anti communist um yeah force and he he gets bankrolled by this these two guys named kodama and um salsa kawa who were like baid kodama is like like the like mill basically like the guy who is in charge of the yakuza he's also a fascist um ray she says kawa is this self to self like literally called himself the world's richest fascist and both of these guys are like huge bankrollers of of kishi they are also and you know and when when kishi is like bringing in the church like this this is how this this is how all these people have got have yakuza connections because yes it's this the the the whole sort of japan is right wing like political machine is like one like happy family that is doing doing the worst stuff all together at the same time funded by the cia yeah and like and also i i i i need to say this good i i think this is my episode about kishi but like like the level of cia involvement here like there are individual cia agents assigned to individual liberal democratic party candidates in the fifties to make sure they won their elections i did not know that bit that is it's wild yeah so specific wow yeah yeah concerning things concerning things oh god um but yeah so like yeah to this day a lot of ldp candidates and politicians still have ties to the uc get donations from it uh use like membership as like free labor uh even like having secretaries uh from who are members of the uc and uh like you know sometimes they would you know see like some sort of like classified or you know uh information and stuff like that so there's yeah there's like apart from like like that like just so interconnected yeah did you do you remember the story about the the ldp's like number two guy like getting getting boon to be able to visit japan uh sorry i don't oh god okay so the my my memory of this story was okay so like japan japan has a series of really weird laws about like oh yeah okay japan has a series of very weird laws about many many things one of them has to do with it it's something like if you've been convicted of a felony in another country you can't enter japan and i i don't i don't know if it's i don't know if it's a felony i don't know what the i forget i forget what the legal bar is for what you have to be like convicted of in order to not be able to enter the country but i like moon is a i like he he like he like he he he he he was like convicted by the u.s. governments of like perjury and a bunch of other shits because of the crimes that he did and so he like technically legally could not enter japan and then like the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the second most powerful man in japan he's politics in the 90s like very specifically did a whole bunch of visa bullshit so that specifically moon could go to japan legally not surprising not surprising but wow yeah it's like yeah and the length people will go to to collaborate with other fascists yeah i i i i think that's that's that's i don't know that's to me what makes this assassination really interesting is that like okay so if if you ask like an even even like in japan if you had asked the average person what the connection between like shenzu Abe and edification church was like most people have no idea like before the assassination those people had like no idea what that was yeah yeah after the assassination this the whole landscape has changed um yeah it's it's it's been really interesting to watch it's like this this really seems like an incredibly sort of politically effective assassination because yeah okay so you know you you had there was there was you know you had the very the initial right wing backlash but the right wing backlash kind of it got kind of muted when it when it became clear that it like wasn't a left wing radical which I think would have actually been an enormous disaster yeah but then yeah the guy was young agami was pretty right wing himself yeah it's like he's a right wing guy and all but also like his story is really sympathetic yeah like yeah i mean i yeah i feel for the guy like he had so much trauma in his life honestly and like it's obvious like and i think you know a lot of uh former members you know sort of understand how that feels uh now most of us have been assassinated a prime minister but so far so far but yeah like i mean we understand that pain of where he is coming from and like you know why upon learning that Abe had these ties he sort of like felt like compelled to do something yeah and i think the the i mean there's also this element at work here that's kind of weird which is like okay it's very very hard normally to get like right wing Japanese people to turn on their own party uh the one way that you can do it is by going hey look at these Koreans so there's like weird dynamics going on here like there were some there were some like even further right parties who were like you know using this thing as a campaign thing if like ah this party is like a fake right wing party like they're all being run by like Koreans and it's like okay that's like not like the thing that is bad about the moonies is not that they're Korean it's that it's all of the other shit yeah yeah and i think that's complicated but also yeah like the the the the political impact this has had has been like enormous yes like yeah do you want to talk about that a bit yeah so um so okay obviously it has shined a lot of light on sort of the connections that a lot of uh members of the government there have from the LDP um as well as other parties uh have with the UC getting donations etc um people are pissed about it you know as they should be um so i guess that Prime Minister Kishita uh had said that they want to cut ties with the Unification Church at this point uh you know it sort of remains to be seen whether that actually happens or not because it could be just be like lip service kind of shit um but they politicians are uh and i'm not sure if this is specifically for the LDP or sort of across the board um there's like a a thing where they're supposed to self report any ties or donations to the UC which is just you know like i don't know like i don't think everybody's gonna come forward with that sort of yeah i'm not really supposed to do it yourself that's like not how that should work but um so i mean like it it it remains to be seen you know if those ties are actually going to be cut um so also like there has been sort of like a a a lot of support from like lawyer groups like the national network of lawyers against spiritual sales um who has you know worked uh with you know cult members and like specifically a lot of Unification Church members or uh former members or whatever who have uh you know lost money um through spiritual sales um and they've also just recently called for the dissolution of the UC in Japan uh which is pretty cool and i hope that happens yeah how realistic it is uh given like all of the strong ties to the government but that would be cool um and then also uh i saw a thing a couple days ago uh that japanese consulates and embassies have a program that is offering advice or assistance uh to UC members who are Japanese nationals and their children um and that ends on september 30th i think so if anybody needs that get in fast um but i think that also applies in america so if like you are a japanese national and like a victim of the UC or if your parents are uh they those they're open and i don't know exactly what the levels of support uh and resources they're offering are uh but it's worth looking into for sure um but yeah like so there's been like sort of this outpouring of support from various groups and there's you know like it's really shining a light on the issue of like especially what it's like to be a second generation member of a cult and the trauma that people like us have gone through um you know there are definitely a lot of calls for like support and mental health care as well as like you know ways to sort of get people out of situations like that in the first place um yeah yeah yeah i don't know i i i i i i hope this translates into actual resources and stuff more than yeah just sort of like the ldp's for writing's tanking yeah which like is good and like it is very funny that kishita's had to act like half is cabinet because the ties feel like too close but yeah i don't know i i i think it it remains yeah although he remains in power and he's got to be you see too yeah yeah yeah so it's like you know clearly there's not a lot like even if people are like having a little bit of like the smallest level of transparency about this stuff like it i i don't necessarily know how far it'll actually go into like you know making amends or like protecting people from further abuse or you know getting people their money back i don't know i i i think there's a there's something i think that's that's really sort of i don't know like really grim about the way that this worked out which is that the the japanese police knew what was going on and why the cessation had happened like immediately mm hmm like they found his hard drive and he'd written out a whole thing about why he did it yeah and then they intentionally held the information and basically made way able to maintain a press embargo until after the election happened yeah yeah you know now everyone fucking hates the ldp like the the the prime minister's approval ratings like 36% like it's really bad i mean it went from like 50 went from like 52 to like 36 in like a couple of weeks but because the people who are people who are connected to the church are the people in charge they were able to like suppress this information long enough to like shape how the election was going to go yeah make sure that it was sort of like the right wing shock from oh my god this assassinated prime minister and not wait the assassinated prime minister for a reason that's like incredibly justified and relatable to like it this is as relatable the motive of assassination as like i've ever seen yeah i mean it's like as far as reasons for assassinating people go this is a pretty like solid reason like there's there's stuff there yeah and like and i think it's just like like it's interesting this like it's this rare assassination where the assassin is is a very empathetic figure to like i think a lot of the time when you get people doing stuff like this like it's the there's sort of like one to one correlation with like okay like how how how how do you feel about sort of like like how do you feel about assassination in general is going to like determine your decay like determine your sort of response to the actual action yeah whereas i think here it's different because you know like that yeah this this this is someone who yeah i mean i keep saying that he's sort of like evidently relatable but it's like yeah this this is someone who i don't know has been through just an incredible amount of trauma in a way that's like very easily sort of digestible to like regular people yeah it's like yeah very obvious trauma and like you know yeah i don't know it's and i i really hope that that that that really does actually translated to resources for mental health resources because i do too i feel like as well as mental health resources i hope there are like you know financial resources and you know like all sorts of other resources as well because like dealing with the fallout of you know having been in like a cult is incredibly difficult and requires a lot of space and time and a lot of people are you know left with like PTSD after that and it'll last for your whole life and that makes you know for a lot of people that makes you know having getting money and doing job things extremely hard especially you know if you're like getting like emotionally like thrown back into that all of the time um so i hope there are like more you know like material resources that are also available in addition to uh it's sort of like mental health care and therapy things because that's something that i feel like is all too often just not there for people who have been through abuse yeah and i think also there's there's this way in which like like a lot of the like in so far as there's any kind of like support network like in the u.s and this is also true of japan to i maybe as i don't know the japan is well for states not great but yeah like there's an extent to which like the sort of like last safety net you have is your family and you know like this is this is a kind of thing that can very easily cut you off your family and that that has you know the that has emotional consequences but like yeah that that has in no more financial consequences that yeah really don't like i don't know it it when i was originally doing research on this like i read a lot of sort of like people arguing about like deprogramming stuff and it like they just didn't talk about like that kind of stuff and it was always just sort of like i don't know struck these really weird and i sort of like grotesque and detached way to think about it instead of like yeah so yeah it depends on like what type of care it is to because honestly deprogramming is another cult it is another cult it's like an anti cult cult and it just you know it re traumatizes those who are already traumatized and honestly like people who have been deprogrammed sometimes leave but a lot of the time it just increases their fervor for being part of whatever movement they're a part of already because they're like oh if this is you know like what everybody is going to do to me if i leave like of course i got to stick with this because you know then like it's like every what they've been saying the whole time about you know be being persecuted and like hurt and stuff then becomes true right yeah i guess that's the thing i would say about like that's my disclaimer about deprogramming and though the collective we are a part of is called deprogramming imperialism that is because the only thing that needs to be deprogrammed really is imperialism and not people because that's not how that works yeah de radicalization requires a lot of trust a lot of time a lot of space a lot of reflection it's not something that you know you can just like go and like lock somebody in a basement for two weeks and then like try to make them leave whatever movement they're part like that's that's just abuse yeah i think like i don't know i i think it's it's as an industry it's not as sort of like powerful as it used to be but i think like yeah i don't know it it there's there's there's this sense in which it's sort of like i know it almost it almost has like civil war logic where it's like both both both sides deed the other side as sort of they're like reason to exist yeah and you know so like in both you know on both both both sides are traumatizing people in both sides indeed like like they're they're they're they're specifically fighting over the same like group of people and each of them can sort of like offer the other side as like oh hey this is why we need to exist thing but then it's like you know it like like as with like most civil wars it's like the actual people caught in it don't it's like no you don't actually need you don't want either side of this civil war you want out yeah yeah no it's definitely it's definitely one of those like oh you stuck between a rock and a hard place kind of things it's like both options suck like yeah like the two party system yeah god who's that Stalin Stalin said two good things in his entire two things that were like funny and his entire life one of them was the pope how many divisions does he have and the second one was they're both worse and they're I mean admittedly he was wrong about they're both worse but like yeah that's it that's a that's a real thing that is the basis of all modern politics honestly that is honestly we hate to see hate to see it yeah yeah on the on the other hand though I don't know like I am kind of hopeful about this like I am too it genuinely seems to have like changed like at the very least it's changed the way that the Japanese public like season understands this whole thing and like this is the first time I think ever whether I mean like you know like the communist party and stuff have been trying for like years to get people to care about this just no one is really cared since like I don't know like basically like since Japanese left collapse in like the 70s like nobody's really cared about this and I don't know it it really seems like something like it really seems like this assassination has actually changed something about just sort of like the like just the the way that the Japanese politics is being structured right now yeah and I don't know I'm moderately hopeful I would say I'm too I mean like the more light that is shed on this I think the better and like unfortunately weird things happened but I feel like if there's any chance for some sort of some sort of you know across the board or even in certain areas just specifically any sort of like justice that the amount of public attention on this now is you know potentially something that could help bring something like that about so I don't it's been it's been like sort of a weird ride for for us X members with all of that just sort of like retraumatizing to see everything happen but at the end of the day I think a lot of us are hopeful that things can change now that people know about it because you know before that it wasn't something that was ever really talked about groups like this thrive on this sort of weird combination of like operating in the shadows and also when they show up it's through their own PR stuff yeah yeah and you know sometimes the best way to break that apparently is you shoot someone who was like you shoot a guy who was working for them and yeah I don't know I mean yeah I feel like Yamagami sort of managed to at least you know he he did what he he did a thing and it has had sort of I probably some of the impact that he imagined it would like yeah like honestly like I from from what I've read of his stuff like I I think this what better than he expected it like it could possibly have gone yeah like he seemed like really really sort of just like had abandoned all hope yeah and I don't know I mean I like I guess the other thing that I really hope out of this comes out of this is that like you don't have to have people like destroying their lives a second time in sort of like just out of the incredible desperation of what they've been through right yeah preventing any of that would be optimal yeah yeah yeah because the you know the more that the longer the unification church operates the more people will be abused and the more violence will come out a bit like maybe this is the most high profile like recent bit of violence that's come out of the movement but it's not unprecedented in any way so you know yeah that's what happens when people are abused yeah and I'm and I think it's also worth just sort of like reminding people that one of the sort of so the church is sort of splintered into various factions yeah a lot of the people well okay a Trump Trump gave a speech at like the at at an event of the mainline church I a bunch of like so one of the other guys like what what what what are the other splintered factions had a bunch of people at January 6th so yeah a rod of iron ministries or yeah sanctuary church and those are those are the guys who had the uh the uh AR 15 gun blessing ceremony a few years ago that made the rounds where they wore bullet crowns and their robes and they had the guns and uh they've also got land in in Pennsylvania and Tennessee and also in Waco Texas where they're basically preparing people for war with what Sean Moon has described as something akin to the globalist deep state Marxists uh I don't know if those are his exact words but it was something like that uh so they're you know like they're they have an act of militia they're preparing for war that is what the rod of iron is for them that is the gun um yeah and and these these if I remember my my stuff on this right the this is the faction that owns car arms right yes they do yeah yeah so they have a gun manufacturer now okay like if Robert were here Robert would probably start quibbling with me about how good like the quibbling with me about the actual quality the weapons they produce but like okay but they have though they have they they they they they have a weapons manufacturer yeah which is terrifying yeah and they make the trump gun because of course they're all super pro trump yeah very like patriot a lot of QAnon overlap there and actually rod of iron ministries uh in in Japan has been helping organize QAnon events um and yeah so like there was also and uh so basically the relationship between rod of iron and the mainline you see is super tense uh shan moon and a couple of his other brothers basically want their mother dead and who is she's the you know the head of the mainline church right now um and not just dead but like specifically beheaded um so there was uh an event uh recently over the summer I think it was like the end of june where uh shan was uh gosh I forget I forget where he was in japan um but basically he was sort of like railing at the audience for supporting his mother hawk jahan uh and then when people spoke up and defense of her they were literally like physically thrown out of the room um it was super intense yeah there's there's footage of it it is yeah yeah it's it's a really in fucking intense moment um yeah and he's like they're saying she had like sex with a demon or something like that and had fallen and all this you know got like I don't know I sometimes I I watch a bit of the guy's speeches just because I'm like I want to know what the fuck they're up to yeah um and at first of all it seems like he might do a lot of cocaine which would not be unprecedented given the moonies and all of their drug smuggling and shit well I mean we have like what was his name uh oh god i'm playing on the name of what what what one of his other sons was like was like literally spending like a shell corporations like net income amount like per month uncocaine at one point like was that heojin possibly I think I think it was yeah yeah I think it was heojin yeah and he's also enormous abuse of pieces shit yeah yeah uh it sucks huh yeah people are all well okay that's not true the the people who are still actively involved in the church and who didn't break themselves out and flee like the first opportunity they got are like enormous pieces of shit yeah I mean because like even at the end of the day if they're not specifically doing anything that like directly harm somebody they're giving money to these institutions that do into people who do and giving them support and you know reinforcing all of that shit and then you know I mean I most of them are just shitty in general too yeah like I also like I specifically also about like yeah that there were a couple of people who like got forcibly married into the family yeah like left and I don't I do not want people to get to get the impression that I think they're bad because they're not like they got yeah really horrible stuff happened to them they're able to escape and that's good but also at Jesus Christ like yeah yeah and that's the thing that it's like sometimes hard to talk to like you know childhood friends or my family who's still involved because I feel like it's like you know if you're supporting this group you're implicitly supporting fascism and murder and death squads and rape and all of these awful things and you know a lot of members don't know that those bits of history about the church but if anyone who is listening is in the UC I would definitely say to look those things up because they are all over the place yeah okay so specifically yet are read inside the league by Scott and Lee Anderson okay I will say this yeah they're it is kind of hard to read because these people are journalists they're not normally book authors and the idea of starting at the beginning of a story and then moving through to the end of it is like an entirely foreign concept to them so it is constantly jumping around between 16 million things but yeah there's a lot of there's a lot of very good stuff in there yeah it's an incredible resource I would also suggest reading the there's like a a bunch of articles that Robert Parry did from his consortium news about the UC and like stuff back in the day on it I would also say check out how well do you know your moon yeah that's another great resource has a lot of you know like links and direct citations of a bunch of documents and shit all good stuff also I would plug John Goran Feld's book oh it's called it's bad bad moon rising bad moon rising yes yes yeah John is crazy yeah it's it's another really good book on that yeah I think there a new edition came out like very recently yeah so I think he has it actually a PDF of it or something for free on his website yeah yeah and then another book I would suggest is gifts of deceit about the Thompson Park scandal and Korea gate another good one god yeah I think about the moon it's like there's just like entire like there's entire genres of like crime that they do that like doesn't even like make most accounts of them because they're doing too much other crime yeah literally there's just so much crime to for there's interest on so much that it's hard to keep track of everything yeah and this they literally have a million shell corporations and they literally do think on their different names and in different places and then different types of atrocities that it's like how are you supposed to keep up with all this that's why they do it that way because you're not supposed to but yeah I mean it is I don't know like I figure out how intelligence operations work is like easier than like trying to untangle this shit yeah honestly like that that stuff was you know a little more on the nose it's like oh yeah clearly this is like a joint psychological operation and other like you know back channels for money and trafficking things and people and stuff but then it's like oh god what company owns what and how much do they make and like where do they move their money around it's just like yeah that's that side is like I don't know I navigate this yeah I am extremely fortunate to be a part of a group of people who's working on this stuff now um you know we're gonna what we're going to try to do is sort of make like a unification church Wikipedia kind of thing so that we have like all of it in one place and then you know potentially down the line maybe do like a people's history of unification church or something like that yeah but in the meantime we're just compiling a bunch of information yeah are there ways people can support you and it also can support deprogramming imperialism and this the work you all have been doing yeah so I have a patreon it's Alisa Majub A L I S A M A H J O U B you can follow me on Twitter at Alisa underscore Majub same spelling deprogramming imperialism has a Twitter it is since deprogramming imperialism was not was too long to put in as a username the one we are using is no more cults which is no underscore more underscore cults and then we have a Instagram as well under deprogramming imperialism I believe let me double check and we will we will put uh links to all this stuff in the show notes yeah awesome cool cool cool yeah it's dupe programming imperialism just just together together words I sorry the words are smashed together there is no space that's that's there we go I did it yeah well I think I think I think that's going to be all for us today um thank you so so much for joining us thank you for having me I really appreciate this and hopefully you know this will just have help more people to sort of like understand what's going on there and sort of the history of the UC and uh as well as you know maybe shine some light on the obey assassination and uh you know the more people who know about this the better I think um so I really appreciate being on here because you guys have a pretty big platform so that means a lot to me yeah and I'm I'm really I'm really really glad that that you came on for this because I don't know like it's it's really like it's really easy to like cover stuff like this and just never actually sort of like get to the human like the actual human impact of it yeah yeah and so yeah I'm really glad I was able to talk to you thank you I yeah I'm glad I was able to talk to because that it was fun it was fun it was informative and um getting the word out we're doing it we're doing the thing yeah yeah it feels good hey there my name is Lauren over and I'm a journalist and a podcast host I'm also a loud talker a dog owner and a Pittsburgher among other descriptors that end in ER oh and as of late 2020 I'm also officially autistic which came as a surprise because I don't fit into a lot of the stereotypes about autism on my new show the loudest girl in the world I'm going to walk you through my own experience from the time my sixth grade teacher put me in a cardboard box to shut me up to the time I melt it down as an adult over a caper in my soup to my decision at age 42 to finally get evaluated for autism listen to the loudest girl in the world on the iHeart Radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts hey it's Roy Wood Jr host of the Daily Show Podcast Beyond the Scenes and we are back for season two Beyond the Scenes is the podcast where we go even deeper into segments and topics we covered on the show but there are topics that deserve a little more time a little more finesse details you know so this season we're bringing on more daily show writers producers and correspondents we're bringing on more experts to drop knowledge on all sorts of topics you can get some knowledge that you can't get anywhere else we break in it down the season two we talking gentrification we talking gun laws book banning black trailblazers in fashion all the trash ways that people treat flight attendants as well and shout out to the flight attendants how you keeping a safe and still got time to give me a biscoph cookie respect listen to Beyond the Scenes on the iHeart Radio app Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts it don't matter when you get it baby just find us you love movies or maybe just to need us a recommendations on what new movies to watch next time you sit down in front of the TV well i have the podcast for you hey this is Mike D for movie mics movie podcast your go to source for all things movies and no matter the genre what you're into whether it be comedies romance action side by horror superhero movies i cover it all i'm no critic i'm just a guy who loves movies each episode explores a different movie topic plus spoiler free reviews on the latest new movies in theaters and on streaming and yes they're always spoiler free so you don't have to worry about anything getting ruined for you plus interviews with actors directors and writers covering the behind the scenes of your favorite movies i also keep you in the know with all the latest movie news and movie trailers listen to new episodes of movie mics movie podcasts every Monday on the Nashville podcast network available on the iHeart Radio app Apple Podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts on pictures of Alex Andrew Duckey moments after his daughter exploded in a car bomb again i don't have any problems beating puppies oh no this is recorded welcome to it could happen here the podcast where garrison davis is fine with violence against dogs yeah right as you said that in your remarks by the way wow wow cancelable yeah huh cancelable death deathly allergic to dogs but they love you so much so if people were if people were going to pick an assassination method for me just to get a whole bunch of dog dander and rub it on my pillow and i'll be dead with i'll be dead this morning i've seen you get rubbed on by a bunch of dogs and you've you've never died yet no i yeah yeah that's good you get uncomfortable and you have to use your inhaler and it's you know but i don't i just i just ignore that you get uncomfortable and you have to use your inhaler Roberts like that's great i'm super thrilled with that outcome you know what other outcome i'm thrilled with oh good so great intro sick transition that was great so we are talking about the assassination of Alexander Duckey's daughter hell yes it's it's it's it's it's it's kind of a wild story there's a lot of weird things going on we still don't know much about what actually happened there's a lot of conflicting theories a lot of experts who are saying different quote quote unquote experts who are saying different things it's it's wild but i have a little right up here that we're going to go through based on what i assume everyone's questions will be about this assassination first thing probably before before we get into Alexander Duckey's daughter i guess it's probably worth clarifying who Alexander Duckey is because to understand the nature of the assassination and possible motives it's important to know who he is as a person so i know we've talked about duckey on the show before kind of briefly but uh Alexander Duckey is a Russian traditionalist neo fascist political theorist um some people call him a philosopher i think that's being a little generous that's so many fun things in a row in that description oh yeah yeah yeah yeah he was born in 1962 into a high ranking military family and a dougan spent his early years as an anti communist dissident in the collapsing Soviet union he joined various dissident ultra nationalist occult anti semetic and fascist groups or collectives that sprung up during the last two decades of the Soviet Union uh in the 90s he was one of the founders of the Russian national Bolshevik party uh which he left in the late 90s because the party was not fascist enough um so he he left the the political party he helped he helped start because it was it had too many of the Bolshevik parts of the national Bolshevik party um he he kind of carries on some of the traditionalist political philosophy from 20th century esoteric fascist writers like Julius Evola whose book on pagan imperialism a dougan translated into Russian just as a brief bit of context for people now you know they're fascism and communism are portrayed as in street strict opposition to each other but if we're going back to the 20s and 30s a lot of these guys had a lot of things in common there were times where the communist party of Germany and the Nazis would fight the cops together um there were people in the Nazi party who were more or less national Bolsheviks in terms of their political outlook yeah um and they were all murdered on the night of long knives like the Nazi party had a left wing that it purged anyway this is just like this is not coming out of nowhere this is an a new development well and the thing with dougan is that he really is does carry on that type of red brown alliance idea with a lot of his politics of of of bringing together some of the more harder fascists with some people who are the more like authoritarian communists um and we we see that with the national Bolshevik party at this point dougan is probably most known for his influence on contemporary Russian politics uh the neo erasianism ideology his writing on the multi polar world theory and his fourth political theory about the ascension of Russia as the world's like traditionalist political power um and usurping the kind of a political dominance of the United States and dougan's neo erasianism is described by Anton Chechekoslav uh an eastern european far right scholar as quote a form of fascist ideology centered on the idea of revolutionizing the Russian society and building a authoritarian Russian dominated erasian empire that would challenge and eventually defeat its eternal adversary represented by the united states and its Atlanticus allies less bringing about a new golden age of global political and cultural illiberalism uh unquote so it's it's very centered in just being against the ideas of liberalism and being against like globalist liberalism like actual like globalization um and still caring over a lot of influences from esoteric writers like Julius Savola in terms of like it's anti modern anti liberal uh politics based in like traditional anti multicultural right like this yeah yeah a lot of if you've ever seen someone screening about like global homo or something like that's probably one of these guys yeah and that that yeah doodans daughter actually in her last ever interview talks about that a little bit and we're about to live a homo yes no this is yeah like like like there's there's there's a there's a lot of people in the u.s. who like see this shit and like mistake it for anti imperialism and it's yes basically because like they've lost the ability to like conceive of an empire that isn't the u.s. the Britain or France and even that's a bit tenuous and it's like guys like from a lot of these questionable accounts you get the attitude that like well only the United States is capable of being imperialism which is then just then just say your anti us just say your anti the United States because you're not anti imperialism because yeah let me tell you something there've been a lot of empires in history yeah controversial statement from rubber Evans yeah quite quite a few different empires over time they're not all america yeah per if probably worth like pointing out the russia as it exists is an empire right it's just a contiguous one against it's one that did it is joined by land not separated by seas doesn't stop it being an empire yes as as we can see with them trying to expand into Ukraine which is heavily influenced itself by some of the theory that doodans was writing from the 90s up until now um and then kind of in reference to doodans influence on contemporary russian politics especially since russia's so far failed invasion of Ukraine doodan is often referred to as quote unquote Putin's brain or quote unquote Putin's Rasputin um and while he is certainly very connected and has sorry and and while he is certainly well connected and has quite a bit of influence in russia and the global far right movement in general the degree to which he holds significant power in the decisions that Putin makes is definitely heavily contested among actual political experts yes we think some of the whole Putin's brain and Putin's like Rasputin thing is a little bit over emphasis over emphasized sometimes doodans never held office there's doodans never we we don't even have a picture of doodan and Putin together like we don't even know they've actually like been in the same room we don't know of the same person if yes doodan put the same person yes that's correct Chris the thing that is important to know about Putin as regards doodan because again as garrison said not trying to make a statement here about the degree like saying that he is or is not any kind of influence but Vladimir Putin has been doing this has been working towards the where he is now for decades and is a guy who has had a view of the world for decades that he's worked towards making real and it's not a view of the world that you need to be doodans and esotericist like you do not need to think esoterically to understand what Vladimir Putin is doing he wants to reunite the russian imperial project that fell apart when the Soviet union did using violence and whatever other means he can do which is why he's gone done what he's done in Georgia it's why he's done doing what he's doing in Ukraine this is not like complicated understanding Putin's motivations are is not hard you know I think a lot of people have kind of leaned into that Putin's brain thing especially since the invasion of Ukraine because in in doodans a seminal 1997 book the foundations of geopolitics doodan lays out his vision to divide the world up and calling for russia to rebuild this influence through annexations and alliances well all in heavy opposition to Ukraine as a sovereign state and a lot of doodans writing has been about trying to reconquer Ukraine and absorb it into russia yeah and he's a useful guy but yeah the in an article from the from the guardian that I was that was using for what's one of the sources for this episode they they claim that the foundations of geopolitics was a very popular book of in the Russian general staff academy and kind of was was one of the things that shifted doodan from like a weird esoteric dissident to actually becoming a more influential and prominent pillar of the conservative establishment inside russia as as doodans writing evolved started to emphasize less the more esoteric elements his his writing did did get more popular in russia um but at this point he is stronger as a symbol uh less so than having actual personal influence over decision maker you know what does have influence over your decision making they have influence over your decision making you're you're uh the sub the the subliminal messages that we've been placing insider ads for the past three years um that leads that that is been an esoteric project of of my design to to influence you to buy these products and services that's right James I'm I'm trying to with I think we have a couple of different esoteric projects I'm not sure what yall says I'm trying to get people to bring the Subaru bahabak that was the Subaru car that had like a little truck bed in the back yeah it was the Subaru car oh my god what a fucking yeah I was gonna combine speaking of like one word but I realized where that was taking me and I stopped me no it is it is a yeah it is a cuck it's my second favorite cuck um yeah why don't they call it the Subaru cuck and I would buy one immediately yeah the Subaru cuck yeah please buy please buy a Subaru cuck enjoy these adverts and we're back all right so let's I think it's now actually time to talk about the uh the actual casualty this assassination uh which is not Alexander Dugan it is instead Dario Dugina uh Dario dead Gina more like it yes she's so she was she was she was born on December 15th 1992 uh Dario herself was a Russian journalist and far right activist who was very vocal in support of the journalist in quotes there well I mean yeah she she she did work for a number of journalists out of journalism outlets not only Russia including in France like she she she did she was a journalist um she did work it wasn't very good she's a bad person um but she worked for a few French outlets um she was very vocal in support of the invasion of Ukraine and accordance with her father's political theories uh she studied at the Moscow State University specializing in the political philosophy of late neoplatonism so you already know she's gonna be really annoying yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah tries to describe that degree program to me I might hit them like absolutely no yeah we we we we we we have in that one sentence alone laid out justification for assassination okay well yeah okay come on yeah I I think I think that's a bit too far I know I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna say right now I bought property with land so that when people say the word neoplatonism around me I can get rid of the body so yeah um here's some fun facts about about Daria um she played the flute um she was she was in her she was in a band I think in college uh called daison may refuse uh which was an electronic music band now uh daison I better shit did actually rock it probably did slap um I mean like and this and this was when she was less of a fascist actually um now uh just in terms of something that kind of an interesting note here uh so daison uh translates to a here being which was which is one of Alexander doogan's favorite favorite terms it's it's related to the philosophical concepts uh as posed by Martin Heidegger uh yes uh so it's it's just a little nerdy reference to both her father I guess uh she was probably exposed to the phrase via her father but it's a Heidegger reference to show that so she named her electronic music band off of yeah if you're in it we're gonna kill her ghost now which is pretty funny yeah yeah if you're in a band with a Heidegger reference leave that band now but yeah when she when she was in the university her friends say she she actually she actually wasn't really enter her dad or her dad's politics um her friends talk about that when she when she was in university she really liked um uh guide aboard um she was interested in some of the more frequent yeah yeah so yeah she was enjoying it just just quickly it's like a lot of popular stuff on the left now shit like a crime thing but also stuff like um ad busters is influenced by guide aboard yeah I mean also like the the the French Revolution in 18 in 19 to just 1968 why was it yeah yeah but yeah I was trying to get the board yeah Geed De Bois was arrived for 120 years yeah I never aged he was also I will say this is a thing a lot of people don't know about DeBoard was influential in the development of war games and is part of the intellectual tradition that gave us war him or 40,000 that that actually makes a lot of sense his game makes it it makes complete sets yeah yeah yeah but but yeah so she she wasn't to stuff like that in such a situation is in huh and and then no no I don't she must I don't she likes to get I don't think she would have described herself as that um but that was the types of stuff that she liked talking about and that was the types of groups that she was involved with she she never talked about her father and her father was already a very popular person at this time is specifically inside Russian universities but she she was she did not drive with that type of stuff um and then by by the end of her kind of time in university she started shifting more towards what her friends described as orthodoxy um I would say is like she shifted more towards her father's traditionalist stuff I'm not sure what exactly caused this shift to happen um but here's a quote from one of her friends quote it was it was strange because before that she not shown any interest in him and her father had no influence on her um and it's very strange it's so yeah something by the by the end she by the by the end of her time in university and she got and by the time she was out of university um she actually just became an activist with the international Eurasianism movement of Dugan and began to arrange lectures for her father and uh became a very active supporter of his and then uh after that she started writing for state run news outlets like RT and running parts of her father's website where she was then listed as his press secretary and started to appear at the events of the uh Eurasian movement as a speaker as well so she she shifted in like the last like probably 10 15 year yeah past like 10 years she was shifting more towards her father even though when she was in her 20s she was more into some of the French leftist stuff that doesn't surprise number one it's pretty normal for young people to rebel against their parents in that era and would be interested in stuff outside of it and like I think there's a couple of different ways this could have gone but a thing that makes total sense to me is that she's rebellious she explores some things the primary thing she learns is that life out there is hard and like making a living on your own and completely infant like is difficult yeah and her dad has a lot of influence and she can make a lot of money working for him and so back back she goes yep I don't know I don't know the woman she lost she lost a lot of her friends over this because when she started doing stuff with her dad her friends who were like situations people are like no fuck that we're not gonna hang out with you it seems like a real response yeah it's it's it's kind of actually a bummer like I only I only I only got to this part of her life a few days ago when I was doing the research and this is actually it's something I stumbled upon later into my research for this episode because I was mostly I was mostly focused on like the actual assassination part um and when I found this I was like oh that's actually kind of sad yeah that is sad yeah I will say I don't know if this is at work here but there is a thing in like there is a current in the French ultra left like after 68 like going into the 70s and 80s that gets like really fucking weird and kind of goes fascist based around it's a long story with it there there's a whole thing about a guy who was like sort of involved in the ultra left circles who was like I think he'd been in he'd been in a concentration camp but he'd been in one of the ones that like wasn't an extermination camp and he started doing like Holocaust denial and there's like this whole fucking thing we're like a bunch of these people like great kind of went really like went really fucking weird the rest of people like the rest of all to zone them and like they like were kind of involved a bunch of the sort of like the like founding the French neo fascism and yeah I mean it's not like it's not like it's not a path that like has never happened before yeah that's not coming out of nowhere. Not especially when your father is who he is yeah that's not yeah it's not surprising so when she started so yeah in the past few years she started acting as her father's press secretary scheduling events for him she was doing she was doing more writing on her own in various outlets including state run outlets but also outlets in other countries but definitely shifting more towards the kind of traditionalist durationism um side of politics. Earlier this year she was sanctioned by both US and UK authorities who under under accusations that she was significantly contributing to online disinformation around Russia's invasion and in an interview just a few months before her death Daria expressed pride that both she and her father had been targeted by Western sanctions they can't she can't kind of wore it as like as like a badge of honor um in imperialism it's what it is in its filing the UK office of financial sanctions called adugina a frequent high profile contributor of disinformation in relation to Ukraine and the Russia invasion of Ukraine on various online platforms cool and to get a sense of how she actually politically described herself in the months before her death in an interview from May of 2022 she described herself as quote a political observer of the international Eurasianist movement and an expert in international relations my field of activity is in the analysis of European politics and geopolitics in this capacity I appear on Russian Pakistani Turkish Chinese and Indian television channels presenting a multi polar world view of political processes for me a particularly important issue is the development of the multi polar world theory it is clear that the globalist movement is over and the end of liberalism has come the end of liberal history unquote so and and and what's Fukuyama and guess and guess what she thinks is going to replace liberal history it's yeah I have I have some theories it's orthodox traditionalist Russian fascism yeah she in that same interview she described the war in Ukraine as quote a clash between globalist and Eurasian civilization unquote I'll let my friends and keep know what they are that's great they'll be excited by that yeah yeah it is it is one of the things that's been sort of interesting to me about this whole thing is like okay so do you do you can sort of comes out of like like Russian national bullshit isn't to some extent right but then like if you look at the propaganda about Ukraine it's like okay these people are all these people are all Nazis but like also they're communist and also they're gay and it's like yes well that that's the thing is like you know do do people like doogin and dogeena while being absolutely fascists can can pretend to be against Nazis for various reasons dogeena definitely and and doogin as well are are pretty homophobic and they view gayness as a sign of like degenerate liberalism so like but like they definitely walk that line between they like but you know that that's a thing a lot of that like red bread alliance or national Bolshevik type things do is walk that line and how they how they try to present their you know cultural beliefs or to have a leabased internationalism versus their versus their beliefs on like fascism and communism but anyway we are let's see and in her last ever interview which took place on the day of her death dogeena said that quote western just like biggie by the way I don't know who that is oh my god oh god what are you this god we need to stop yeah we need to stop all right we're doing a biggie episode next year and you're of your homework for this week yeah please come back next week and do better so in in in her last ever interview she said that quote western totalitarianism has come to an end and a special military operation is it seems to me then the last nail in the coffin of this world hegemon and then later on the interview she talked about how environmentalism support for transgender people quote the conversion of a person into a homosexual unquote as well as veganism and freakingism are tools with which the west is trying to fragment society and reduce its population yeah freakingism my friends who dumpster dived so they could buy more drugs 15 years ago we're part of a conspiracy to fragment society it's not that cocaine was expensive and the fucking traitor jose didn't lock its dumpster it's that okay awesome yeah so yeah so those those those were the views that she has posed hours before dying so well talking about the conversion of a person into a homosexual transgender people freakingism as being the things that are destroying the west yeah to be clear all of these things are based and showed in fact destroy the west yeah if the if the thing that finally kills capitalism is dumpster diving teams I will be thrilled but I I just don't see it happening uh so before we get to the actual deed let's set the stage for where this uh this event took place and where everything went down so it's August 20th a Saturday Alexander Dugan and Daria Dugina are attending this festival just outside of Moscow where Dugins making a planned appearance that and he gave a lecture that Saturday evening at this festival now the the festival is called the tradition quote unquote tradition is what is what is whatever ever everything calls it so I wonder what the festival is about huh I'm sure it's just appreciation of of the headline song from the play fettler on the roof so best sung by zero mastell look it up seriously I hope it's an incredible performance that must have been it right so the tradition festival is billed as quote a patriotic cultural festival and family event for art literature and music lovers no don'ts no traditional don't this is the famous thing I've ever heard so it's basically it's it's this traditionalist kind of quasi fascist like art festival for people who like neoplatonism of is what it actually is of it it takes place in zarkov of manner it's this it's this biggest state about 12 miles away from Moscow um the tradition festival is supported by the presidential fund for cultural initiatives the ministry of culture and tourism for the Moscow region among a few other kind of sponsors and both Daria and her father were special guests at this year's festival in an interview a colleague of Dugin has said that the the conversation topics at the festival between Dugin his daughter and other tradition festival attendees they they said they said this in an interview quote we talked about the Russian idea the empire and the cultural war unquote so that's just like the regular conversations you're having at this festival to give you a sense of like what this thing actually is um and the blast that event that did kill uh Dugin's daughter uh happened shortly after Dugina left the tradition festival um at the estate where her father had given a lecture just hours previous um do you know who do you know who won't blow up and I don't I don't want to say that yes that's what we are really look I'm gonna say right now if you are planning to assassinate a member of the Dugin family and want to sponsor our podcast we're on board I think we're fine with that actually yes it's just counted to you for those yeah yeah actually we'll do it for free just give us a name because we have fregans and we're turned down society this is this is part of our radical freaking identity uh this is this is this is this is what I'm gonna do in between stealing old pumpkin spice coffee from the trader Joe's dumpster unbelievable I I I will do a I will do it for the sure less of to because pumpkin spice coffee is destroying the west we have to kill it yeah Robert Robert and Daniel fucking love the pumpkin spice it's amazing it's disgusting it's not for me degenerate liberalism in the form of pumpkin spice coffee I do not enjoy it in any way ship I don't want to yuck your yum I'm happy now I'm enjoying thank you thank you thank you thank you for being a friend I would like to yuck your yum Robert oh my god here's that break you know what yes we are we are back um I'm gonna open up with a quote from uh I love quotes from the bomb boom I don't know who that I don't know what that is oh the bomb the bomb the flea harry yeah good blueie yeah yeah mr bomb when you exploded what's going through your head that we think it about yeah pots of doria digina great but no it's actually no no perfect yeah we're finishing assassination week to actually to actually justify some of our kind of glee at this happening because doggins are horrible person I mean I'm so excited they're both trash yeah yeah I'm I am going to read a quote from a pointer a sour in the guardian quote on Saturday night the violence that the ultra rationalist Russian thinker Alexander duken has propagandized for decades suddenly entered his own life when his daughter was killed in a car bomb on the outskirts of Moscow I think that's a really important thing they're like he's made his entire career off of doing violence on other people and and promoting uh yeah genocides on people that he doesn't like there there are people I know who are dead because of the war that he and his daughter urged to happen so yeah yeah like it's it's why it's it's it's the same thing is like when every single fucking neocon ghoul dies like no one should at no one she'll be for no one should feel bad about them at all because they spent they dedicated their entire lives to having another country be invaded and having all these people killed their lives destroyed so fuck them but yeah no the violent the violence that he's fetishized and and propagandized for decades has has actually entered his life for like the first time now and the ocean neocons funny so after giving a talk at the festival duken and his daughter were due to leave the venue together in the same car if only the dog but at the last minute duken decided to travel separately and take different vehicles he was shipped off by the CIA according to a friend and family now because at the last minute he did decide to take another vehicle this actually has spawned a lot of conspiracy theories um which we'll kind of get into it a bit later but but this this is what happened is that they were they were they were going to leave together and the last minute they decided to take separate vehicles um five minutes later while duken note was driving a taota land cruiser on the highway oh see now that makes it so much of the tragedy that is a that's a fine car it didn't deserve to end that way yeah uh why couldn't it why couldn't it have been a Ford Robert sometime sacrifice is or necessary for the cause yeah but it's pretty I'm gonna put that land cruiser on a flag let's put let's let's all pull one out for comrade taota land cruiser you you served us well you made the ultimate sacrifice so that mankind might be free to go off roadic so as as as as she was driving this taota land cruiser on the highway a bomb exploded in her car killing her immediately and sadly ripping the vehicle apart um witnesses say debris was thrown all over the road as the taota land cruiser immediately lost control and crashed into offense and engulfed in flames no there's credible stuff yeah I mean a really solid assassination yeah it's it is what's one of the better executed ones especially for especially for a car for car bomb those like yeah it's one of the most impressive car bomb attacks that has ever happened yeah I think that's great a carbon that's yeah yeah that now that car bomb that car bomb killed nobody but yeah that was quite a car bomb it was a big boom we thought that frucker was an airstrike it yes that was a large car bomb so um I witnessed this called the fire brigade but by the time they arrived the entire car was up in flames and firefighters only found one badly burnt corpse in the remains of the vehicle so investigators say an explosive device planted under the car went off in the vehicle caught fire this happened uh about 12 miles west of of uh Moscow on in in the village near the village of oh boy you don't need to try that nobody needs ball shot valim's valzami valsami valsami okay valsami near near the village of Bolshar valsami uh at around 9 30 p.m. local time investigators do believe the bombing was quote premeditated and oh really really was it was it was it was it was it was casual spur in the moment guys just walking down the street with a bomb cease to gain a driver hmm yeah why not it was like explosive addition it wasn't it was a it was a de vehicle error this was a bomb plant it was a network let you down like yes no no no I've been a forward or a Chevy a Pinto sure yeah if if a fucking f1 50 goes up like that I'm blaming Ford but no this must have been a bombing so the bomb was placed under the car on the driver's side now a friend of the family named Andre Krasnov who's also the head of the uh Russia Horizon social movement um conf was that one of the first ones to confirm confirmed the reports of uh of Darius death and but also said that the bomb could have actually been intended for her father and he gave this quote to media quote this was the father's vehicle Darius was driving another car but she took his car today while Alexander went in a different way he returned uh he was at the site of the tragedy as far as I understand Alexander or probably them together were the target unquote now this is this is just speculation actually um from what I can tell there is actually more evidence suggesting the car was indeed registered to Darya Dukina I don't believe it is her father's car there was some of the vehicle registration was leaked by a Russian opposition news site like a news site in in Russia who is not state funded uh leaked the car registration it was registered to Darya not her not not Alexander Dukin um so but it is very likely that Dukin may have been a target as well like very extremely likely uh it's hard it's hard to say now in one of the funniest parts of the assassination a footage posted on telegram appears to show Mr Dukin walking up to the site of the crash in shock with his with his mouth just like gaping open and hands on his head like he's in like this surprise so funny it's one of the funniest things I've ever seen yeah he's walking up to the site of the crash like oh it's very good that is that is that that's the sound of the face he's making is we we love to see a wizard in distress uh so sad wizard so the attack happened on Saturday and then come Monday the federal security service or the the FSB uh said that the murder has been solved come come month come the next Monday and this is this is not true this is what we call a lie uh from the FSB yes that's that's really disappointing untruth yeah that's wow from the Russian FBI no no no no intelligence services ever told lie uh then no that's disappointing so so yes according according to according to the F the FSB uh the the attack was mastermind by the Ukrainian secret surfaces and oh wow and carried out by an azov Ukrainian national name named that'll be uh uh valk um who fled the last name yeah yeah yeah we're we're hitting the grandma Johnny racist yeah so keep it the fan did it again who fled to Estonia uh stonia a stonia yeah stonia following the killing um so Russia Russia's FPS did a very brief investigation yes sorry Russia Russia's FSB did a very brief investigation claimed that it was this female Ukrainian citizen um and that and that she fled the next day which was Sunday Ukraine says nah uh uh not really uh yeah that is the me basically you do that you created made uh uh yeah you craintry get it that noise it's one of those things I I would not be surprised obviously if Ukraine did it and they have the people responsible or some of their network are still in country of course you you make a denial but if Ukraine did it and they were out of the country I can't imagine why they wouldn't be like yeah man we fucking did it so we're in war I'll read the actual statement so a Ukrainian official dismissed the accusations of Ukraine's involvement in the incident uh quote Ukraine of course has has nothing to do with this because we are not a criminal state which is the Russian Federation and even less a terrorist state said uh my keelio po di alak uh who is an advisor to president uh is a lonsky so yeah maybe yeah Ukraine obviously denies involvement in this um there's a bunch of people it could be could be Ukraine could be the CIA could be Ukraine and the CIA could be the FSB uh or the G or you a lot of a lot of people have a lot of people have theorized all of those things yeah there's really no way to know a lot of people could have done this yeah yeah are we uh are we gonna get into the person who designated the bomb or like the car they use we don't we don't we don't know what actually happened I'm gonna get to some a bit later but some of the actual mechanisms that causes to happen are still unclear because the because the FSB is not like given us any definitive evidence on how this thing actually worked but the head of the uh the denetz people's republic they they issued their own statement on telegram saying vile villains the terrorists so they're just they're just doing a cobra commander that's awesome you know what vile villains I am the traitor trying to eliminate to Alan gander dugen blew up his daughter in a car we cherish the memory of dooria she is a real Russian girl that's the statement I do I lose the thing I want in the Russian girl as if that makes it worse that like if they blown her up some other way it might it would not have been his vile but in a car I just love that they end it with she was a real Russian girl yeah yeah yeah it's like a Pinocchio but it's very funny so some some politicians and experts quoting quit experts I've said that Putin himself my orchestra did the bombing with little to no evidence in support of that theory there was a British member of parliament said that Putin may have targeted dugen over recent criticisms made against his government which I find to be very yeah I was a Putin's gotten rid of a shit load of guys who used to be close to him lately and he didn't use car bombs for a push about windows they commit suicide they get sick you know a lot of many historians or like you know extremism kind of researchers are definitely kind of eyeing up the the FSB sure it's you know it's but it's it's really it's it's really unclear there there was um uh people proposed that like this this attack was orchestrated to kind of create a wave of needed anger in Russia six months into their failed invasion yeah that works for them Ruslan a trot a security researcher in the in the US think tank Atlanta council proposed that the the the FSB uh or other Russian state kind of apparatuses could have been involved saying that's evident that the the the murder of dugeena created a wave of needed anger in Russia and that quote dugeen is now mostly a symbol not an instrument for the state his role in the creation of current Kremlin mythology for Eurasia and the so called Russian world has already ended and he and he can be sacrificed currently the Russian army needs victories and a patriotic flame so they they they're kind of the I'm proposing that he was it was like this like symbolic sacrifice to like if we sacrifice this figure that means this thing people will be willing to like keep on fighting uh the Ukrainians literally have literally bombed and struck inside Russia at this point and killed 50,000 plus of their children you would think that would be enough to make the Russians angry like blowing up this weirdo's daughter isn't going to be the thing that galvanized this the nation well to to be clear though this is the kind of dumb shit the Atlantic Council would be advocating for yes absolutely and stupid Atlantic Council shit yes yeah yeah and one of the one of the funnier explanations that our theories being posited is by former Russian state deputy uh Ilia Ponomorov um who is now uh in so in an appearance on his Russian language opposition TV channel in Kiev alleged that uh that Dugina was killed by Russian partisans from a previously unknown anti putin terrorist group dubbed the national republican army and that both Dugin and his daughter were targets and according to this guy the group authorized him to issue their manifesto via his telegram channel uh and this group is entirely made up this is not real this is this is like this like this like this like this like this like this like this like this this like this this former Russian official turned this like Ukrainian lib guy who claims that it's this secret to anti putin liberal terrorist group no that contacted him and and secret this is this is this is their first ever attack yeah that's good that they're going public as this new terrorist group and I'm gonna say this is the only one of these theories that is abs that that I don't believe like the the this assassination is a lot like what happened to Epstein where everyone who brings up a theory has some other reason for having that theory and so I don't trust anything anyone says about it but every theory about why he might how he might have died is plausible right like every all of these are plausible yeah might like I don't this I don't care what the Atlantic council us to say but yeah could have been the FB's FSB I don't care about like what the Russian government has to say but yeah could have been the Ukrainians but definitely was not liberal terrorist groups first Bobbick no you're like this is a thing like that what I want to want to want to want to think like the like these single thing where like you can instantly tell that someone is lying about what happened to the bombing is when they say a previously unknown group like this is so hard to bomb things yeah yeah like so it's it's certainly some Lenny is a German political expert with particular focus on Russia and Eastern Europe yeah he's definitely has made a lot of statements talking about how Kremlin's version of events is definitely he says totally fake and absolutely out of the scale of possibility in terms of blaming it on this this one Ukrainian as of fighter who infiltrated Russia um and well well so the the FSB has produced quote unquote evidence to in support of this theory saying that this Ukrainian citizen who arrived in Russia in July with her daughter rented in apartment in the same building as dogeenas and spied on her in the inter Russia as a Ukrainian by the way July of this year yes yeah and your child would you say I'll rent an apartment in the same building as dokins daughter so specifically dokins daughter and spied on her in like the month before the killing um the the FSB released a purported passport photo of the Ukrainian citizen as well as a footage that allegedly showed her in Russia with many people including Ukrainian officials and kind of data analysts and like disinformation researchers pointing out the various ways that that the document seems forged or digitally fabricated um and uh some lany also says that this national republican army group is completely made up uh because like there's there's no there's no way that there could be a terrorist group like this he was like an actual group active that's not infiltrated by the by the FSB right now um just like he's like you know like not like people can do individual acts of terrorism but have like a group like a big group like this comprised of like former Russian officials he's like that's just impossible that's just not that's just not going to happen yeah um no I I agree with all of that um honestly one reason why someone involved in the Russian security state is plausible is because this was such a good bombing it was very good it's it's I'm leaning whatever it is because CIA is also like I'm leaning towards it's it's a state actor or because like fucking bombs are hard to make especially like almost close to 0% of the time when an independent terrorist group makes a bomb does it work the way it's meant to yeah like and like this this wasn't even ignition based this blew up yeah she was driving on the highway so like people of the rise it was yeah like it could it could have been like heat activated it's it could it could have had like a timer based on ignition stuff but like whatever mechanism that got to well that they got it to blow up is more complicated than your average car bomb and it was way more successful than your average car bomb so it's like it's it's bizarre how good they were at doing this yeah and like I think it's worth mentioning like okay like there was a time where you could just if you needed to make up car bomb like you could hire a guy who would you try to make a car bomb like we don't live in that area anymore like that like in the 70s you could plausibly do that right although if that's a kind of training you want to offer for people to help try to take out Alexander again a sponsor our podcast yeah we're I yeah our podcast sponsored by Becca Valley 2 Becca Harder I do believe that I have this one source here that that it's they the FSP claimed that the the bomb was either made of or equivalent to 500 grams of TNT which is what no that seems like a bit much which is complete bullshit that's like you'd use an Oregon to get rid of a whale but that's but that's just one of the statements that that's like that's one of the statements that that the FSP has made on this that it's 500 grams of TNT which is just not true like that's just not how bombs work um so now we're going to get to some we're we're going to we're going to close off here by talking about the the the the aftermath and the televised funeral of because it's because it's kind of funny so family friends dozens of colleagues and equateances of Daria Dugina got together live on TV on the the Tuesday after after after her death to bid their final farewell to the quoting quote journalist killed in the carbom attack outside of Moscow that's quoting from TAS one of the one of the Russian state funded media outlets um I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna read a quote from Alex Zed to do again who this is something he said on the televised funeral quote she had no fear really and the last time we talked was at the festival tradition she said daddy I feel like a warrior I feel like a hero I want to be with my country I want to be on the light side of the force she's with a lot of Russian people now and yeah she's with about 50,000 or so other Russians right now I just love that like she's not saying that his daughter walked up to her and said daddy I want to be on the light side of the force she's like in her mid 30s like what the fuck I mean a significant chunk of her body mass was converted into light I just I just I just said that I don't know I just think it's a really funny thing that that Dugina was saying on the televised funeral just a bizarre quote um he also said that uh he wanted to bring up his daughter the way that he saw the ideal person to be uh saying quote the first words that we taught her as a child were Russia our state our people and our empire unquote to get none of this is true like he's just no shooting but it's just like a weird thing to say it's your daughter's funeral no you gotta look look he got you daughter it's like any other kind of investment right like and she's been exploded you gotta get as much as you can like really it's like ringing out of towel you know uh you gotta just make that last little bit count and then uh Vladimir Putin a few days after after the assassination signed a decree to to award her with the order of courage post post you must see so she she did she did explode courageously and so yeah that is that that's the assassination of Dugin's daughter it's wild because we don't really actually know we don't we don't really know who actually did it we we don't know much about the actual event we're unsure of the actual the actual like a ignition of the bomb how the bomb actually operated who actually did it I mean obviously like this whether whether Dugin himself was a target or specifically um uh Daria Dugina um now obviously this was like heavily planned based off of her and Dugin's schedule right because they were both openly gonna be at this fashion yeah but that's cultural festival one could have access to yeah but like you know like it it did require like you know people were tracking their movements being like oh Dugin's gonna be at this festival on this day um so like it's there is a lot of like background work that went into this and it's fascinating that we just we actually know very little about who who may have done this and how and how the bomb actually um operated uh the the primary clue we have is just how good the bomb was which which means one way or the other a nation state actor probably but that does not really narrow it much so yeah that was uh that was like and one of these assassinations that happened shortly after we planned assassination week yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah like this oh my gosh her it's what like man like it easily our most successful PR campaign yeah one of our best bits today it's it's it's just so wild to think like how close Dugin was to dying because remember like he he was planning to leave in that same car and then at the last minute decided uh to take separate vehicles um so was he behind her when it went off or like yeah yeah that's why we got that great photo uh him walking up to this site oh yeah we should point this out to you like if it had actually been like 500 grams of TNT like he that bomb would have still been exploding would he walked up to it like we would make sure of him going oh my god and then just his face would explode but not me like a lot of conspiracy theories have popped up being like well Dugin was supposed to be in that car and then he left last minute maybe he was in on it maybe like maybe you know the Russian state told him this was going to happen and he and he just let it happen and it was doing it for like this PR thing like who knows like like do maybe maybe Dugin did know that this was going to happen like like like there's there's no way to like you're just you're just you're just speculating at that point you're just creating theories in your own head but it is it is kind of funny that that Dugin almost was in that car and then he wasn't and that is uh that is that is that is at the very least in the interesting aspect of the assassination um but it's no evidence for one specific thing right yeah well I'm gonna make a stop somewhere on my way back home right like so I'm gonna take this I'm gonna take this other vehicle like a there's so many other possible reasons for why he may have switched cars um but it is it's it's another it is another like thing to that that the people are are turning into various theories yeah I would think I was saying but that's like you have to have a lot of faith in your bomb maker to drive behind a car bomb like yeah intentionally like you've got to be really like and I I don't know either that or you really hate your daughter in a way that's very reckless yeah but you could just like turn off the highway or something or like oh no my car broke down no you need to make sure that that goes down behind you you got a dropper you got to press the big plunger into the bugs yeah well at least we're ending on a high note yeah I do like I've started we started the assassination week with a car bomb yeah and we're ending it with car bomb five hundred grams of TNT she declared the nearest church no doubt yeah it's like poetry it rhymes and I want to be on the light side of the force quote fine what are the according to do get one of the last things Darryl Duke said I want to be on the light side of the force somebody if there were real journalists left in the world somebody would reach out to George Lucas and just try to get a quote yeah and you're not don't email him it's like just go to a mall near Skywalker Ranch and wait until he goes to the sparrow you'll find him all right we're done that doesn't for us today check under your driver's side door if you're Alexander do again I bet you if he wasn't involved it wasn't aware of this he is going to be looking over his shoulder like nonstop yeah yeah it's all yeah man he's never getting into a car he hasn't like shimmyed under he had to look under every car he gets into it's so funny we love to see it anyway Tata all right we're done hey we'll be back Monday with more episodes every week from now until the heat death of the universe it could happen here is a production of cool zone media for more podcasts from cool zone media visit our website or check us out on the iHeart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts you can find sources for it could happen here updated monthly at slash sources thanks for listening my name is Lauren over and in addition to being a charming podcast host I am also a newly diagnosed autistic person my new show the loudest girl in the world is all about my weird winding path to diagnosis my decision at age 42 to finally get evaluated for autism listen to the loudest girl in the world on the iHeart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts hey there I'm Scott Rank host of the podcast 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