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Hello, I'm Erica Kelly from the podcast Southern Fried True crime, and if you want to go from podcast fan to podcast host, do what I did and check out spreaker from iheart. I was working in accounting and hating it. Then after just 18 months of podcasting with Spreaker, I was able to quit my day job. Follow your podcasting dreams, let's break or handle the hosting, creation, distribution, and monetization of your podcast. Go to spreaker.com. That's spreaker.com. Hey there, it's Ebony Monet, your co-host for the San Diego Zoo's Amazing Wildlife podcast. In this special episode, we're speaking with Doctor Jane Goodall about the fascinating journey that led to her social discoveries on chimpanzees. So four whole months, the chimps ran away from me. I mean, they take one look at this peculiar white ape and disappear into the vegetation. Bing wildlife on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. In the 1980s and 90s, a psychopath terrorized the country of Belgium. A serial killer and kidnapper was abducting children in the bright light of day. From Tenderfoot TV and iHeartRadio, this is La Monstra, a story of abomination and conspiracy. The story about the man who simply become known as. Lamaster. Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey there, I'm Jess malady. Confetti here. Hi, I'm psychic and I'm hey shady lady and welcome to Boss Level podcast where we feature conversations with gas tube leveled up, bringing an XP boost to the table. We pick the brains of professionals, creators and bosses and industries across the globe to help our listeners achieve their own boss level. We are not just creating a podcast, but a gamified and engaged community. Listen to boss level on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. OK, recording. You have a story to tell and maybe you thought I should start a podcast. Meet anchor. It's a powerful app that lets you record a podcast anywhere and get it heard everywhere. All you need to do is download the free anchor app and hit record. Just go to anchor dot FM slash get started. Your story matters. Make a podcast with anchor. That's anchor dot FM slash. Get started. Great. I think we got it. Hey, it's tulipa. I'm here to tell you about my brand new podcast, Dua Lipa. At your service, I'll be sitting down with the world's most inspiring minds to uncover what makes them tick and what they've learned from the obstacles life has thrown at them, including Sir Elton John. After a lot of upsets, a lot of disappointments, a lot of betrayals, it's turned out to be the most wonderful life right now that I've could have ever imagined. Listen to Dua Lipa at your service, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey everybody, Robert Evans here and I wanted to let you know this is a compilation episode, so every episode of the week that just happened is here in one convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to listen to in a long stretch if you want. If you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, there's going to be nothing new here for you, but you can make your own decisions. All right, I will find some clever way to introduce us. Huh? You know what? I might just go with that. I will find some clever way to introduce us, and that is that is the introduction now, because I, because I said it. Hello, welcome to it could happen here. Today we are going to be talking about Internet privacy and some new bills that will possibly undermine it. Today I have with me Christopher. Hello Christopher. Hello, I am here I am. I don't know if excited is the right word, but no, no one should ever be. People are really excited to come on the show. Yeah, no, this is a this is a mild dread treasure of the Internet. I try because we we definitely, we definitely can. Things don't need to be always horrible and grim, even when you're talking about things that aren't great. But yeah, today we'll be talking about some interesting things. As per the title of this episode, we'll probably be related to we are talking about the proposed. Earn it act and well, this I'll explain what it is and the different kind of implications it could have on how like everyone uses the Internet but also effects a few specific types of people in particular. So, but kind of part of this whole thing we're going to start off by talking about something a little bit different and then to kind of segue to the another act. The last year of Apple, the company announced like a controversial plan to install photo scanning software into every kind of every every device. Apples kind of long been seen as a pro privacy company. In the past they have like refused FBI demands to help investigators bypass locked phones. So this this idea and this plan to create a back door into the iPhone storage system to scan for photos. This was kind of a big deal coming for Apple because they were definitely, at least in the past, known as a. Literally like out of all of the companies, the ones that if you're dealing with sensitive matters, Apple is generally generally the better one that that has become less of a case in the past few years, but that was that definitely was the case. So when when this kind of idea was announced, there was a decently sized global coalition also forms to push back on this thing and the company did pause the plan. Now this came at a time that a lot of different kind of companies were also pushing back against not safe for work materials. Specifically for like like like relating to like the transaction of money and banks. This was you know around the time that only fans was flip flopping on whether they would actually have not safe for work kind of materials. As a part of this kind of growing trend of like worrying about the the term now is like child sexual abuse materials, which traditionally was, it's called child *********** or you know. So it's part of this kind of overall kind of extra focus that tech companies have about being worried that if they, if someone is doing that who is underage or if someone's being exploited who's underage, you know, they could financially hurt the company. So they're trying to lots of companies have been trying to do this thing. To prevent that legal and financial issue from happening. Now, of course, all this really actually ends up doing is just negatively affecting sex workers. But this, that's kind of a topic for a different episode because we're talking about the act more specifically and not not specifically talking about only fans. But this was Apple's plan to kind of scan all these photos to, to make sure that that they were not, you know, naked photos of and of children. Now there's a bunch of other privacy issues around that because, I mean, obviously. Teens do take nudes and send them to each other and there is really no stopping that. So the idea that all these photos are getting scanned and then seen and then like it would be the the idea was that parents would be like alerted if something was found on the phone automatically. Which means that for me, I have a whole bunch of other issues with that. Like that is a whole other kind of level of like ****** ** especially for queer kids like that is like, that is a whole again. But that is mostly a whole, whole whole other discussion that I'm not going to talk about right now, because we are, I do want to focus, focus more on the more on the Earned Act. But so this, this plan was paused, but now that may not necessarily matter actually, because Congress kind of wants to force Apple's hand along with that, along with essentially every other company that allows users to store or share messages or kind of really any content. And Congress is some senators and there's a bill that will try to essentially mandate photo scanning and specific photo scanning technology approved by the government. So yeah, so while Apple's plan would have put privacy and it's the security at risk for all of its users, the earnest act of compromises the security and free speech for basically everyone who uses the Internet. The bill would create serious legal risks for businesses that host content such as messages or photos of stored in the cloud, online backups, and potentially even any kind of cloud hosting sites such as Amazon Web Services. Which means basically most of the Internet. Yeah. And basically, so have these all these all these services and companies would be in serious legal risk unless they use this government approved scanning tools. A version of this bill was first introduced 2 years ago, sponsored by Senator Lindsey Graham, a Republican from South Carolina, and Senator Richard Blumenthal, a Democrat from Connecticut. And now like a lot of these other things, it is allegedly aimed at tackling so-called child sexual abuse material online, which is, which is a problem there is. The kids definitely do get exploited. Kids do get groomed, exploited stuff. Photos of children do get shared online that like that that that actually is a real issue. Now, a lot of the ways that these tools get implemented don't actually address that issue. And of course it doesn't actually deal with the people that do this. Like, you know, like the bad, the bad people that do exploit kids, it doesn't necessarily deal with them either. That is, that is what they wrapped this idea as the original bill that was introduced 2 years ago threatened encryption. And privacy features that would have actually, you know, put Americans privacy particularly, particularly the privacy of children, at risk. It also gutted section 230 in ways that caused over 50 civil rights groups to pen a letter describing the potential consequences of such things like censorship, you know, cramming down on free speech and the basically destruction of encryption. So when the legislation failed to advance two years ago, digital liberty advocates, you know, sex workers, civil rights. Organizations all breathed a sigh of relief, but this past month, as I record this in 20 in February 2022, a group of lawmakers, again led by Senator Richard Blumenthal and Senator Lindsey Graham, reintroduced the Garnet Act, a slightly modified version of it. And on the on the 10th of February, the Senate Judiciary Committee voted to advance the the Dangerous Earned Act bill. So. Yeah, it is. It is. It is chugging along a bit further than what it did than what it did last time. The Earnest Act aims to tackle the horrific criminal activity related to child sexual abuse material by making section 230 protections contingent on the prevention and response to such material online. So section 230 Shields online services like, you know, commonly used social media from liability from most user generated content under ernet. Section 230 would be amended to enable civil claims and state criminal prosecution related to child abuse materials online. Against platforms now already this can kind of happen federally a little bit, but it depends on how the company like responds to it. So but but this would introduce a whole new wave for civil claims and state claims to be filed against companies like this. If if if if, if material like this is to be found hosted on their site, you know, including. You know, that would even include if like someone who's underage operates a not safe for work Twitter account that they probably should not be operating. But this, this, you know this, this could also. This could basically make the company in trouble. They could fall under state claims or civil claims. So. As as a result, online services could be subject to endless litigation under 50 different, you know, legal law systems per, you know, for all the states regarding, you know, finding child sexual abuse material online. So the the bill's proponents claim that this isn't necessarily a problem for any service as long as it is scanning the files then reporting child sexual abuse material to law enforcement. Internet companies are already required to report suspected material if they come across it, and they do report material on a massive scale that often comes with comes with a lot of mistakes. Facebook is often held as a positive example by what lawmakers and law enforcement for how much they do report such such material. But while their new scanning techniques have produced many millions of reports, most of them are inaccurate, like most of them actually aren't of minors. It's it's it's not, it's not. Actually, none of this getting material is good because a lot of cases, many people up into their 30s can get often flagged and often, like even non humans can get flagged like pictures of fruit. Like, like, it's not like, it's not like, yeah, none of these scanning tools are actually very good. Yeah. And like, this is, I think, I think, a thing that, like, if if you've never like, had to work with a machine learning algorithm before, I think it's difficult to understand. How unbelievably bad these things are. Yeah, like it's. I just ease. I've got like the the, the, the incomprehensible horror of trying to get a machine learning algorithm to do the thing that you wanted to do and not do the other things that you're not. You don't want it to do to, like, you know, be able to tell the difference between, like a particularly smooth and round Peach and like, child sex abuse material. You know, you human being can do this, right? The machine cannot, and it is they it is horrifically inaccurate. You have to do all kinds of, like, hacking stuff together in order to get the stuff to work. And yeah, it's it's it's a fiasco. A good example of this that I've that I've heard before that I'm probably gonna butcher this explanation. But you know that you can take you know, a photo of a wolf uh maybe even three photos of a wolf and say here this is these are photos of wolves. Here's here's other here's here's these other photos. Find which ones are wolves and it'll you know it'll it'll sort through the ones. Some of them have wolves, some of them don't. And it only finds one picture that says this one. Based on the three photos you've given me this photo is a wolf. And instead the photo. Is not. The photo is of a tree and you're like, why did it tell me this is a wolf and the computer will answer? Well, look at all the all of the backgrounds are the same. Yeah, it's trying. It's trying to match. Like he doesn't have the same thing that humans do it when when all these computer algorithms that are trying to learn to replicate and trolling find these patterns, it is never perfect. So the big thing that is people often overlook is that, yeah, specifically with this, like with with Facebook's scanning tool and the millions of reports that that it does make, you know, federal law enforcement will frequently use the massive number of reports to suggest there is this giant recent uptick in child sexual abuse materials. But that's not because there actually is. That's because this this, the scanning that some companies are doing is just so bad. Like, it's just, it's just so inaccurate that it flags so many things. So, like, in action, the new earnest Act would just pave a massive new surveillance system run by private companies that would roll back some of the most important privacy and security features and technology used by people around the globe. Right the the idea is to compel private companies to scan every message that's sent online and report violations to law enforcement. And it may not stop there. An act could ensure anything. Listed online like backups, websites, cloud photos and more is all scanned. Now of course you can say, I mean, there is no actual true privacy online, right? The NSA does see everything, which is basically true. But stuff like local police departments and the FBI do not have constant access to what the NSA has. It does actually like legally, it does actually take some time for that to happen. The fact that all these private companies would be doing it for them and the fact that this would actually break encryption makes people like the FBI. Makes the local law enforcement have a much easier time accessing what we do on the Internet. Because yes, the NSA kind of does always see everything, but that that this actually this actually is, this actually is quite different in terms of the accessibility of that information. And I, I think, I think it's also, you know, to to to to go back into one of the sort of like encryption arguments too. Right. So, OK, what once you put a backdoor into encryption, right. Once once you have, you know, you have your system, you have encryption system. But you know, now there's now there's a way to access it, right. Because, Oh well, we need to access these, you know, we need to be able to decrypt this in order to see if there's like child *********** materials on it, right. Once that backdoor exists. Any anyone who finds it can use it for anything they want. And it's, it's, it's, it's not even just that. Like we'll get into some other things around encryption, but but yeah, continue, yeah. And you know, and I think, I think this is something that I think people don't. Like the, the, the, the, the people who are just thinking about this in terms of of child *********** don't think about which is that like, I don't know a lot, like they're these, these, these kinds of backdoors, right. Like other people can find them. Yes. And you know, OK now, now you've just put it back to an all encryption like, oh, hey, here's, you know, like here you, you, you are, you are going to get people killed and you're going to get people killed because you're going to have people who are doing things under governments that you know will, will, will. Like, you know, you're going to have people in Myanmar, you're going to have people in. You're gonna have people in in Egypt are going to have people in Syria who. Like these these regimes and like these, you know, private, private companies, right, are going are going to sell the back doors to these regimes and they're going to use it to hunt down, torture and kill people. And so yeah, there is, there is a lot of problems with it, especially especially how it. How it kind of addresses encryption because the bill does try to actually have some encryption protections, but the way they go about it of course is not, is not adequate and it even kind of fosters its its own negation in some ways if you read the entire bill. So, but I'll get more into encryption in a SEC because there are other like technical issues with the way this bill is designed and how it would be enacted. There is this sort of benefit to having a legal material that is that is actually exploding. Winners being primarily hosted on big tech platforms because these platforms are used so much and are mostly non restricted. So it makes catching this stuff and reporting it actually much easier like it is if they're hosted on these mainstream things. It does make seeing it and reporting less difficult. So not only will this bill make tech companies be more likely just to ban all not safe work material in general, right? Because if companies are forced to scan and they're going to be filing so many reports that this will, this will result in a lot a lot more companies. Just saying, no new photos at all. Like, just completely gone. Not only will this bill just make tech companies more likely to ban all not safe for work content in general, which would be horrible for sex workers and just a bad precedent. But yeah, just they would be more likely just to do that because of how much overscanning they would be and just a whole bunch of things. So we create it would create too many fears of legal repercussions. Thus, you know, that would force people who distribute child **** onto more sketchy sites and sites that might just refuse to scan content in general because they're temporary hosting. But the bill could also just scare these bad people off of mainstream platforms and make them voluntarily migrate to more niche and hard to find corners of the Internet, making illegal content harder to catch and take down. Because there will always be weird temporary sites to host this type of thing. Like, they're always there, like these bad people will find a way. It's always like, that's it is, it is going to always be a problem. And so in a way, it's it is better to have these things on mainstream platforms because reporting them and taking them down. Would be much easier. It's it's like, it's like when people really advocate platforms like Telegram. Shut down all fascist channels, right? The The thing is, is that there's a lot of benefits to having these chat rooms on telegram because it makes them really easy to monitor and really easy to infiltrate. So there's a lot worse places for fascists to organize. If you're doing it on Telegram, it's actually really easy to watch. So it's this weird give and take in terms of, in terms of where, where these things happen, because they are going to happen somewhere, so. I now want to talk about how specifically this bill threatens threatens online encryption services, right? Umm, the the bill would strip critical legal protection for websites, apps, and specifically section 2:30. If passed, it would empower many different levels of government to make sweeping new Internet regulations right in. Individual states will be able to pass laws to hold private companies like libel as long as they somehow relate their new rules to child abuse materials. It's like they they will, but they have a whole bunch of new rules. On Internet regulations, if they can sift it through this lens. The goal is to get states to pass these laws that will punish that will punish companies when they deploy end to end encryption or offer other encryption services. This includes messaging systems like WhatsApp, signal, iMessage, and as well as web hosting like Amazon Web Services earn. It aims to spread the use of tools to scan all online content against law enforcement databases like directly in a myths and facts document distributed by the bills. Opponents, it even names a government approved software program that they could mandate called a photo DNA, which is a program that Microsoft made that reports directly to law enforcement databases. So Ernet doesn't specifically attack encryption per se, but that's because it doesn't need to like. It doesn't have to because of the way the bill is designed. How it approaches encryption is actually a little more insidious. It allows the fact that encryption exists in the platform itself to be used as evidence. Against a company in order to find it liable for hosting child sexual abuse materials, so they can use the fact that encryption exists as evidence which is. Wild, like, yeah, this is like, this is, this is the thing, this is the thing CP does a lot like with. You know, like they use, they use the fact that like someone is using a VPN, for example, as evidence that they're terrorists. This happens constantly and and it's it makes a lot of a lot of encryption stuff incredibly unsafe because like, you know, you show up with your phone, you have signal on it and the CP is like, well, you're this, this, this is proof we're just going to lock her up and throw away the key. And yeah, it's extremely bad. So the result is that laws will make companies liable. If they don't scan and report user content for child sexual abuse materials, which they can't do unless they break break encryption, you know big companies like Apple are going to fold to to protect themselves. So earn it is like it coerces these sites and platforms and services to do this sort of scanning, and not just on messages, but all online content. Encrypted or not. Companies that handle online content would have to weigh the benefit of their users securely encrypting their data content against the legal risk of doing so. And encryption becomes much harder when it, you know, puts the company's bottom line at risk and and and and like, end to end, end to end. Encryption isn't just for messages, right? It's it's not just on signal. It secures most of the Internet, or at least at least a lot of it, keeping what you do allegedly, you know, private, unsafe online. You you can't have a secure Internet where all of the content is also screened, because you can't have encryption alongside mass scanning requirements. It's just it. So this isn't just an attack on encryption, it's attack on any kind of fundamental security that the Internet you know has. Yeah, and, you know, there's lots of. Like God. There are lots of extremely technical reasons why this is an extremely bad thing. Like it's like, OK yeah like you you you you think malware is bad now. Like, oh gosh, like look at like the the the things, the things that will happen. Like you, you you think people are stealing apes now? Like the things that will happen if you have to, if if if you have to deal with Internet that's unencrypted or. You know, like, yeah, no. Absolute horror show. Like if. Yeah, like, I I yeah, it's this. This is a thing bad enough that, like, I I do not have the words to express how catastrophic this would be because you're just the fundamental structure of the Internet. It really is not just for messages like the earned Mission fast document also, like specifically attacks Amazon for not scanning enough of its content and since Amazon is the home of Amazon Web Services, which hosts a huge number of websites. That implies that the the Bills aim is to ensure that anything hosted online also gets scanned. Like like like everything. The online service providers, even the smallest ones, will be compelled to scan user content with government approved software like photo and A and if Ernet supporters succeed in getting large platforms like cloud fair and Amazon Web Services to scan, they may not even need to compel smaller websites because the government will already have access to the data through the cloud platforms. So. Like, as long as they get, you know, these big hosting platforms they don't even like, they won't even need to bother with a lot of with a lot of smaller sites. I I think there's another thing I think is probably worth mentioning here, which is. O we don't really have like the time to fully go into this in this episode, but like, there's a lot of this sort of stuff is being pushed by these like incredibly right wing evangelical anti **** groups, yes, and their goal is just to eliminate anything that is not like. Part of their sort of fundamentalist Christianity. Yes from the Internet and those people this is this is particularly relevant to this because those people are going to find a way to to to to to to to bring lawsuits against these companies specifically so that they specifically so they can do because this is you know what you what you've done is you've just handed them a gun. **** sites will all be taken down because they'll be because they'll be facing so many endless lawsuits like only like only fans will no longer host. Ethical poor like. Like, not none of this will have like all of it will be taken down. No one like there's this will this will attack sex workers to such an absurd degree. It'll make base. It'll make a lot of, if not most, online sex work just impossible, because there will be so many lawsuits always happening that companies will just always ban it just because they can't. They can't risk dealing with all those legal fees. Yes, it's yeah. And and and and the fact that state prosecutors and private attorneys will be able to drag an online service provider into court over accusation that their users committed crimes and then use the fact that the service chose to encrypt like like chose to use encryption at all as evidence against them is the fact that the strategy specifically allowed under earn it like makes the possibilities of this type of thing just endless. Like like imagine, imagine like. They'll be able to take down signal so easily. Because like it's, it's, it's it's wild. If they can if they can find 1 instance of you know, it's like as like a of of an abuser using signal or has you signal, then basically all of signal subscription will be severely threatened because of the way that legal fines will be forced onto this company. It's it is like specifically for stuff based like for any kind of in any any service allowed in the States and yeah it's really frustrating because you know people including senators. Who are pro earn it say that the new tools are necessary to tackle the issue of online child abuse and the and the distribution of illegal materials online. But, you know, obviously, like possessing, viewing or distributing child **** or child sexual abuse materials is already written into law as a, as a serious, like, it's an extremely serious crime, like most legal thing you can do. And it has a broad framework of existing laws seeking to eradicate it, right people cannot like companies can already get in federal trouble if they're fined. If if if they're found to continue if like you know if stuff is found and they continue to host it or if they're if like they're state. The purpose is to host it like like some of the most trouble you can get into at least at least like on the books because you know you can you can look at you know how many. Cops are involved with this type of thing as like evidence be like oh like like for as evidence said like it doesn't like it may not get enacted upon always there was there was a horrible story recently of a a teacher who. Sorry this is this is this is this is going to be quite graphic but of of a like skip ahead like a minute or two if you don't want to of a teacher who fed students food containing her husband's semen. Her husband was a cop and her and her husband again who was a cop and the. They also, the leader of a SWAT team had raped multiple children as like it had and had had pictures of children and like like both of them were doing this together. So like, yeah, that's like the leader of SWAT teams, like police, like the fact that, like if you if you look at the people often doing this type of stuff, it's cups a lot of the time. Like the cops rape so many kids that that they that they arrest and detain it is shocking. Like you, you you can Google this every week and you'll find. You'll find, like, new reports of it. It is, it is. It is horrific. And, you know, online service providers that have actual knowledge of an apparent or imminent violation of current laws around child sexual abuse materials are required to report it or they will face legal trouble. Yeah, like you, you could you can kill people and get in less trouble with the law than than you will get if if if you intentionally do this, stuff like that. There are scenarios where you can kill people where you won't get in trouble with law. There is no scenario where you do. We you. You like you, you intentionally do like. You intentionally do this stuff where you will like. Unless you're a cop with like a with with the legal protection of your other cops won't rat you out like. Yeah, you're like very, very rich. Yeah, like, you know, unless unless you have extra legal protection, yeah, like you are ******* going to vanish. So, yeah, like we already have a lot of stuff to deal with this. And the methods proposed by ERNET would not only chip at the last semblance of of of privacy online, but it would all. But it would arguably make actually combating real instances of online check of online child abuse a lot more difficult. It would pressure distributors and abusers into a harder to find corners of the Internet that don't fall under big tech companies. Plus, the massive increase in content scanning would produce so many false flags it would clog up any effort. To find actual materials because so much stuff is gonna get flagged, right. It's gonna you're gonna get a wave of so many images that you have that you have to sort through and figure out if the people in it actually are underage. Because a lot of people who look 30 and sorry, a lot of people that are 30 can also look underage sometimes like like with lighting with effect like it it is it it it will be a, it's going to, it's going to like be such a task. And we can hardly see this in effect with new scaling techniques used by Facebook. They've. That have produced millions of reports to law enforcement, most of them inaccurate. And of course federal law enforcement uses uses this massive number of of reports produced by low quality scanning software to you know suggest there's a huge uptick in these images. Thus, you know, armed with misleading statistics, the same law enforcement groups make new demands to break encryption or with earn it hold companies liable if they don't scan user content. Those scanning algorithms. Right. Like you know, OK this this is an oversimplification but like. To, to to conceptualize why this is a bad idea. Like these, these are these. Like, this is the, this is the same stuff that, like, you know how you know there's there's those, like, trending topics on Twitter. Yeah. And they'll show you a tweet. And the tweet will be like, I know they'll be someone talking about a subway sandwich, and it'll get, like, it'll show up under trains, right, because it's the subway. Like, exactly this. Those are the algorithms that they want to ******* run the entire Internet through. I have. See? I have seen some very I've seen some very ****** bell Peppers. And, like, it's it's it's gonna like, these things will aren't, aren't going to be good. And like independent child protection experts are not asking for systems to read everyone's private messages. Rather, they recognize that children, particularly children that might be abused or exploited, actually need encrypted and private messaging just as much, if not more, than the rest of us. Like no one, including the most vulnerable among us, can have privacy or security online without strong encryption. And the earnest Act doesn't really just target big tech. What it does is it targets every individual Internet user, treating all of us as potential criminals who deserve to have every single message, photograph or document scanned and, you know, compare it against a government database, like directly, directly to law enforcement. And since direct government surveillance would be, you know, blatantly unconstitutional and provoked public outrage, earn it to use this tech companies, you know, from the large ones, the smallest ones, as its tools to kind of. Bypass that constitutional like barrier because yeah if you if you, if you, if you if you hit the tech companies where it hurts they will not allow this type of stuff at all. Like and this is also that you can you know you cannot deny. This is also just part of a larger effect to ban **** and just to ban any kind of sex work online as well. Like you cannot deny that this is this is this is definitely an ingrained part of this particularly with a lot, a lot of its supporters and of course you know Senator Lindsey Graham. Appealing to that side of the Republicans, this is this is a a big part of just trying to you know, remove **** and remove you know, any not safe work for material from being hosted online. So the strategy is to get private companies to do The Dirty work of mass surveillance. You know, it's the same. It's the same tactic that governments tried to use this year trying to, you know, convince Apple to subvert its own encryption and scan all of its users photos. And it's the same strategy that the that the UK law enforcement is using to convince the British public to. Picking up their privacy, having spent public money on a laughable public publicity campaign that demonizes companies that use encryption so that that's really how it's operating, I do want to shout out. The EFF for providing a lot of the kind of research that I used for compiling stuff on the on this episode thank you, thank you, thank you, EFF you often often do good work. That's the Electronic Frontier Foundation. They they focus a lot on like Internet privacy issues. And I I do want to point people to a a link tree. It is a, you know LINKTR dot E slash stop earn it. So, yeah, you can find different ways to, uh, you know, if you're the type of person that enjoys calling representatives or something. It has, it has links for that kind of thing. It has links to send, you know, automated messages on to your representative to vote no on the Earned Act that has stopped. You know, if you have type of person that enjoys signing petitions, it has. It has more info on what earn it is and what it does. And a whole bunch of other stuff around, you know, organizing to help stop this bill. There's like discord channels that have people organizing to to stop this bill links, links, forward on that has info on like actions you can take. So yeah, I I would if if you're interested in like looking for the different ways that can maybe, you know, contribute, you know, not no single person can make an impact, but you know, enough people, enough people can. So yeah, that's linktree slash, stop, earn it and then also. Again, another shoutout to the EFF. Yeah, I I wanted to make don't say two closing things before we close this out. One if if if you think that. If you think that once you're handing the entire contents of the Internet over to the government to run through scanning all groups that the only thing they're ever going to scan for is child *********** I have no NFT to sell you. It is a picture of a bridge. Once once you buy this NFT of the bridge, you will own the Brooklyn Bridge. Contact contact me for more details. The second thing is that. You know when when we talk about like. We we talk about anti **** stuff when we talk about how. You know the, the, the, the, the. The way you get around this is by banning all non cedar not seeing for work content, right? The other thing that almost immediately gets banned, it's inevitably when when, when, when when companies for for whatever reason and this is true. Just of of of companies that are trying to comply with you know like the App Store or stuff like that. Like whenever you get target things that target Nazi for content they they inevitably inevitably without fail target queer content content is literally nothing at all through sexuality because that's you know this is this is this is this is always been like accusing queer people of of being child predators has been the attack line on queer people are always on the frontline of all of this stuff. Yeah yeah they will always be the first people. In impacted, there will be the first people demonized. Even if, even if it's not even not safe for material, if it, if it has, if it has nothing to do with it, it will still always, always be impacted more than basically any anyone else. Yeah and I mean we've been seeing this on YouTube like constantly. Lots of lots of people who just, you know, make trans content clear, channels always being banned or demonetized. Yeah, marked as adult content, like, yeah, it's it's horrifying. And if if if you want an Internet, not even just if you want an Internet that has. Like sex on it if you want to Internet that has queer people on it. Right. Expressing themselves in, in, in, in in any way that's not like. Literally just it's straight person. But you say queer, right. If if, if that's a thing that you think is valuable and and if and if you think that you know, it is important for people to be able to express themselves for their own health and safety. Like you have to oppose this. Yes, you. Absolutely. I guess one final thing I'll add because you know, someone will probably message me about it. There is a slate opinion piece by somebody saying that this bill would actually let child abusers. Walk free because they could use the fact that this bill essentially, you know, compels companies to do scanning software via via government like mandate because of this bill. They would that because because in their mind this could possibly violate the 4th Amendment. This would allow abusers, the evidence that they have collected to prosecute abusers to become invalid in court. So this would actually also make them. This would just make this one make the bill. You know, actually make people walk free. I do not agree with this. Take. I don't think that's how it would work out at all because especially for, you know, you can use this for like, political organizing. You can use this for a lot of, like, you can use this same argument for a lot of cases and it never works out that way because the government does not care about that sort of thing. It's it's it's not that's not how it works. I mean, like, again, things are get violated, like in in theory that does not know. That's no way. Like they illegally seized, you know, Ted Kaczynski's, you know. Like you know like evidence and. Yeah no it it doesn't it doesn't matter like yeah that's yeah that's that that's that's not going to matter because then this bill would be seen as a good thing because it would prevent people from, you know then encryption wouldn't be necessary because then none of the evidence that people would you know, would have gathered would ever be admissible in court. And that is that they would never design the bill like that that that's not that's not the case. I I I disagree with this take so do not send me this article saying actually it's going to have this happen because I. I do have believe it because this this assumes that the government operates like like coherently and operates like, you know, like, no, I think the government just does does not care. No, like, again, like the the, the, the 1st amendment is superseded by traffic law. Like, no, no, you're not going to be able to use this isn't like this just secretly let abusers go free. And this is not secretly a good thing because it'll make all evidence inadmissible in court. ********. Anyway, yeah. Anyway, I'll give a final shout out to the link tree. Linktree slash, stop earn it. It's LINKT dot ER slash stopper in it if you're the type of person that likes doing those types of things. And also it has like things like discord channels for other types of organizing beyond, you know, petitions and calling and senators and sending messages and blah blah blah. Anyway, that is the episode. Thank you for listening. I just thought, I just thought, this is this is this is an important thing enough that I haven't seen it. I have not seen enough people talking about the earnest act and the way it does. Mint Mobile offers premium wireless starting at just 15 bucks a month. And now for the plot twist. Nope, there isn't one. Mint Mobile just has premium wireless from 15 bucks a month. There's no trapping you into a two year contract. 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That's better helpp.com/behind betterhelp.com/behind this fall on revisionist history. Is there anything that we haven't talked about or or that I should have asked you or you'd like to add that seems relevant? You should have asked me why I'm missing fingers on my left hand. A story about sacrifice. I think his suffering drove him to try to alleviate suffering. And the shocking discovery I made where I faced the consequences of writing a book I thought would help people? Isn't that funny? It's not funny at all. It's depressing. Very depressing. Revisionist history is back with more. Listen to revisionist history on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. I've never seen less enthusiasm for a great idea in my life. Seriously threatened digital privacy. And because it was approved by the Senate Judiciary Committee to be pushed forward, it is actually chugging along on the slow legal process. So it it it's gotten further than what it got in 2020. So I thought it is actually worth talking about, you know, for privacy issues, how it affects queer people, how it affects sex workers and all all that general thing. So yeah, and and also I wanted, you know, it's very easy to feel helpless with this kind of stuff, but like, we've beaten legislation. Have four? Absolutely. I like one of my one of my formative childhood experiences was when was when we beat when we beat SOPA and PIPA. Like, Yep, we can beat them. It takes it takes a lot, takes a lot of mobilization. But yeah, like, we we we we we. I know we can. I know we can beat this because we've beaten things like it before. Great. All right, that's it for us today. If you want to find us on a currently more secure than what it could be, Internet, you could follow us on Twitter at Killzone Media. And happened here. Pod, I think. Apparently Instagram too. So that's cool if you're an Instagram person. Good. Good for you. Because Twitter? Twitter is bad. You can find me on Twitter at hungry bowtie. Yeah, find me yet. Hit me. Chr 3. You can't. You can't indeed. That that doesn't for us. Hey there, I'm Jess malady. Confetti here. Hi, I'm psyche and I'm he shady lady. And welcome to Boss Level Podcast, where we feature conversations with gas soup leveled up, bringing an XP boost to the table. That was always my response was like, I am like a Unicorn here, right? Like because there's not a lot of like, out of the closet. Female gamers want to say there's not. I know a lot of them. There's a lot. But like, it was like a battlefield. They're like, this is our cool voice club and you can't be here. And I'm like, no, sorry honey, this is a very dark corner and I'm a lot of life and I'm coming right into this corner, right? We picked the brains of professionals, creators and bosses and industries across the globe to help our listeners achieve their own boss level. We are not just creating a podcast, but a gamified and engaged community. Listen to boss. On the iHeartRadio App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And we're live here outside the Perez family home, just waiting for the and there they go. Almost on time. This morning Mom is coming out the front door strong with a double armed kid carry. Looks like Dad has the bags daughter is bringing up the rear. Ohh, but the diaper bed wasn't closed. Typers and toys are everywhere. Oh but Mom is just nailed the perfect car seat buckle for the toddler and now the eldest daughter who looks to be about 9 or 10 has secured. Yourself and the booster seat. Dad zips the bag closed and they're off. Ah, but looks like Mom doesn't realize her coffee cup is still on the roof of the car. And there it goes. That's a shame. That mug was a fan favorite. Don't sweat the small stuff. Just nail the big stuff. Like making sure your kids are buckled correctly in the right seat for their age and size. Learnmore@nhtsa.gov/the right seat, visitnhtsa.gov/the right seat. Brought to you by Nitza and the ad council. From cavalry audio, the studio that brought you the devil within and the shadow girls, comes a new true crime podcast, The Pink Moon Murders. The local sheriff believes there may be more than one killer. It's been four days since those bodies were found, and there's no arrest as of this morning. They were afraid he's facing out in that area. What if they come back or whatever? It scared me to death. Like it scared me. I was very, very intimidated to live here. One night maybe snuggling with your loved one and never wake up. Or maybe you wake up in a struggle for your life which you lose. Join host David Ratterman as he explores 1 fateful night when evil descended upon small town Ohio, killed eight members of an Ohio family in a pre planned execution. The family was targeted, most of them targeted while they were sleeping. Followed the Pink Moon murders on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey everybody, Robert Evans here. Obviously, as I'm sure everyone is being bombarded with, the war in Ukraine is in its fifth day right now. Something like that. We just passed 96 hours. By some accounts, more than 300,000 people have been made refugees. Those are going to be very inexact numbers, but it's it's likely to be somewhere between like 50 and 100,000 people per day being made refugees. And it's possible that's going to last for the foreseeable future. Much of the coverage that you will have seen at this point is going to focus on heroic pieces of of of resistance. You know, things that Ukrainian civilians picking up arms, throwing Molotov cocktails, Ukrainian soldiers. Destroying Russian armoured columns, some of that's going to be propaganda, some of that a decent amount of that's actually happening. Obviously we have a fair amount of documentation, but what I think has not gotten nearly as much play as the situation at the border of Ukraine and Poland. Because this refugee crisis is enormous, but it's also not sexy. And it points to a number of things that are ugly about some of the stuff that people like to celebrate in this conflict, including the conduct of President Solinsky, who has, I think, handled himself objectively well as a wartime leader and who is also, as you'll hear in the interview that's about to follow, made some decisions that had a catastrophic impact on people's lives. So this is an interview conducted by a journalist, James Stout, who is working with us on this project and with. Another project that will be launching soon with a person, an individual, an American who was uh well, has a couple of different passports, but with a a person who was in Ukraine when the invasion began and left and eventually wound up leaving on foot with 10s of thousands of of other people for the Polish border. So this is a story of what it is like to flee a country at the beginning of a war and and the reality is that increasing numbers of Ukrainians are going to be facing. Every single day, so please listen. Hi there. Hey Manny, how are you? I'm doing well. How are you? Good, good. Sorry to keep you up late. I'm sure you're exhausted. No, no, it's OK. It's OK. I actually just arrived at new hostel in a new city and I'm going to be up for a couple more hours anyway, so it's a good time to talk. Nice. Great. Do you mind if I record this? Go ahead. Excellent. And let me explain what we're going to do. So I'm writing a piece for NBC on the refugee situation that's emerging, and then I'm also helping to make a podcast for iHeartRadio about a similar thing. So if it's OK with you, we'll use the audio for one and then some of your words for another. Absolutely. How was my audio coming through? It's great. It's really, really good. And you wanted to have a phone. Are you on a computer? I'm on the telephone right now. I don't have a computer with me. You're doing really well. If you're on a computer, I'd ask you to record it back up, but this is just fine. I'm recording. So yeah, like it seems like you've had a pretty exhausting 48 hours now. And so if we go back to when you're in Kiev, right? Yeah, so I was in Kiev a few days ago. I was in Kiev. 8 days ago. And then I went to Leviev 4 days ago, OK and could you how long have you been in Ukraine? I had been, I've been in Ukraine, where I had been in Ukraine in total for one week. OK, so you know that long it. And you so you arrived in Kiev. You went to Leviev. Can you remember, like, where you were when you found out that the invasion was happening and that it was gonna go past Donbass and into Ukraine? Yeah, of course. So I woke up on the morning of 24 February to the sound of air raid sirens outside, and it was a very confusing sound. I'd never heard air raid sirens in real life. I just heard them in movies and television shows and such, and I knew immediately what had happened. I didn't even have to check the news. And I did check the news soon afterward, and there were bombings all over the country. There were reports of bombings in Ivanna Francysk, which is a city 100 kilometers South of Levine, where I was. And there were so many rumors flying around. There were rumors that the Russians were coming, coming to live at that moment, which was not the case, but can still be the case very soon. Anyway, so we heard. I heard these, these air raid sirens as I woke up and I shook awake my roommate, who was a British journalist. And I told him we might be bombed any minute, so we went outside to try and find a shelter. Pretty much still in our night clothes. We went outside and try and find a shelter and there were loud speakers saying everybody remained calm, find shelter, help the elderly, stockpile water, and it was repeating this on repeat and people were shuffling along. There was a sense of muted panic, so it was an outright panic, but it was a sense of urgency, I guess you could call it. And we were at war. And that was when I realized that Ukraine was being invaded at that very moment. Wow. Yeah, it sounds dramatic. And at that point you went to the shelter, I'm guessing. So did you spend some time there before making the decision to head to Poland? So after about 15 minutes, the air rates Howard stopped. The news generally came around the city that Levine was not about to be bombed, but nevertheless, a massive exodus of people began from revive at that moment. Because, OK, we're safe for now, but for how long are we safe? Was the general sentiment that was around. So everybody just started making for the train station, the bus station. They got in their cars, people were just leaving. There were huge lines at the ATM, there were huge. Lines at the grocery stores people were buying non perishables. It was just not a panic full out. I wouldn't call it, but it was an urgent departure. It was an urgent exodus that was happening. And so me and my roommate, we went to the train station, waited in line for 2 hours to see if there were tickets. There were no tickets. We went to the bus station. We waited in line for one hour to see if there were tickets. There were no tickets. Umm. And so then we started to get a little worried because it was noon on the day of the invasion. Russian forces were everywhere in the country. There were bombings everywhere in the country and we had to leave, and there was no viable means to leave. The airport was closed. Of course, the airport was being bombed a few hours later. So. We tried to look into car hire, we tried to see if we could rent a car, we tried to see if we could take an Uber or a Lyft or a blah blah car, which is the Ukrainian version of Uber. And none of those options were available because everybody was thinking the same thing. And in a sense of almost resigned despair, we decided that it would be best to just start walking West and see what happened. And it was around noon when we began to walk West. Wow. You know, so when you, you said I have to walk, did you just sort of take what you could carry and was that sort of what most people were doing? Or did you get the sense that at least the people were like preparing for a long period of time away when they left? The people certainly were not preparing for a long period of time away. The people were not preparing for war for the longest time, President Zelinsky and the Ukrainian government maintained that there would be no war. They called indications of war alarmist. They called them ludicrous and. It was only in the final 24 hours that everybody sort of woke up and said there's going to be a war. So I remember the last day before the invasion, people were getting ready, people were waiting at the ATM, people were buying groceries, people were packing, but it was not before. Before that time, nobody was getting ready for the war. And so when the war struck. Everybody. Everybody just sort of left hastily, and it was a terrifying departure, a sudden and terrifying departure because people didn't know what to do and do and they just sort of grabbed what they had and they ran. Luckily for me and my roommate, we were traveling with, you know, just one pack or so because we were, we were not living in Ukraine, and so we were able to just carry what we had on our backs. You talk me through that walk, then it's the thing I saw. It's like 43 miles, is that right? That's, that's right. So we did take a municipal bus, a little bit of the way. We took a municipal bus, I believe it was five kilometers down the road, 5 kilometres being like 3 miles down the road. And the total distance from Lviv to the border is 8080 kilometers, sorry, 80 kilometers. So that really did not make a dent at all in the distance. And it was noon when we started and we knew for a fact that. That we would not make it before nightfall, and we knew that and we were terrified of that. So at first we walked along. The countryside was picturesque, it was beautiful, it was indistinguishable from a holiday during springtime. There was a fair, fair weather, sunny, and no one could even tell that the nation was at war. There was really nobody else walking on the road besides us in the beginning, in the 1st 20 kilometers, I would say. And then we started seeing. Long lines, the petrol stations, every everywhere was out of gas there. Nobody had gas, there was just no ability to fuel cars and as a consequence of that. Cars were running out of gas and they were being abandoned on the side of the road, which caused further traffic pileups, and soon the road was impenetrable to vehicles. And. So because of this, everybody started getting out of their cars and walking. And so these families who had planned to escape Ukraine to Poland in their cars and carry their lives with them were suddenly faced with the hard decision of taking what they could carry with them. Yeah, that just sounds terrible. That sounds really difficult. And I'm sure you saw, like, all the folks and younger people as well, people sort of. And struggling to that's a long walk, right? That's not a walk that everyone can do. So there must be very different. It's a difficult walk for a young man, and many old women and little children under the age of five were forced on this March because there really was no other option for them. It was either go back to Ukraine and risk being bombed, risk being under Russian occupation, or it was get out of your car and walk in the winter time with no food or water, no toilet. 450 miles. And it was just this nightmare scenario, because all these people were on the road. There were people in wheelchairs who couldn't negotiate the mud. There were mothers with strollers who couldn't get the get the children. Out and the children were crying. The children were asking why are we here? What are we doing? Why did we have to leave home and stand and walk 50 miles in the middle of winter? And the old people were sort of resigned to it. They there was one old woman I passed who was using a cane, and she was hobbling along, and she had a backpack. And I asked her, where are you going? Because we were apart. We were a long, long way from the border. And she said, I'm going to Poland very simply. It was a very matter of fact statement. And so these people walked with the sense of duty and a sense of urgency. And it was just a very tragic humanitarian scene. Yeah, I can imagine. And that was a major, that was a major route that you're on, right? Like a major Rd that just become impassable. It wasn't one of the bigger highways, but it was, I believe, the M11, the Ukrainian M11, and runs east, West, throughout the country. And yeah, it's one of the major roads and it had become completely clogged. Yeah, Jesus. So on arrival in in Poland or at the border. I understand that there's some that men like, broadly defined as like military age or 18 to 60, I think aren't allowed to leave because they they have. They have to stay in it and enlist. It's that right? Did you see? Yes, the border was absolutely the worst part for that reason, about 5 kilometers from the border, at the end of our walk, we were feeling relieved. We were feeling like finally we've made it. Ukrainian military patrols started walking by and driving by and announcing through loud speakers and announcing with their own voices. All men must stay. All men between the ages of 18 and 60 have to stay, get out of line now. And so the fathers naturally asked, because there were a lot of fathers who were there to protect their families, to safeguard their families and to provide for their families. These fathers asked, how about us? We have we have little children, we have children under the age of five. How are we supposed to provide for them if you conscript us right here? The Ukrainian army did not care. They pulled them away physically from their families. There were. Lot of tears. There was a lot of crying. There were a lot of hurried goodbyes. Brothers left sisters. Mothers left husbands. Lovers left each other, people. People just left it was. Terrifying to watch. Yeah. All these men were conscripted immediately into the army. Yeah, I can imagine. And what people at that point, like, it seems like they were relatively stoic up to that point. Where were people sort of resisting that? Like, just would they, like, sort of sad but resigned to it? Was it a mixture? That was, that was, that was when the panic began because everybody was sad but resigned to their fate of walking to Poland, but nobody was prepared for losing all the men. Yeah. So when all the men. Their loss. When all the men were taken forcibly and this was public, everybody could see these men being yanked from their families. People first started yelling at the soldiers that didn't do anything, obviously. And they they were they were so angry at the soldiers and the soldiers were Jeanette care. And then panic began because people realized, Oh my God, this this person who was here with us, who was a travel companion, who is a relative, now we have to leave without him. And even more, he's going to the front now and he is in great danger. At the front. So people began pushing. They began shoving. They began being rude to one another. There, there was no sense of empathy among the people at all, because it was a panic to get across the border at that point. So there were people fainting, and that was really just overlooked. The the people who fainted were sort of dragged to the side and left there. And I I think they they made it. I don't know if they made it out OK. They certainly didn't die. But there were people who were fainting, there were people who were sobbing, there were people who were hyperventilating. There was vomiting going on. It was just this sense of absolute human panic as people just tried to escape in the last, in the last five kilometers and especially in the last 500. Years was the very worst. So, yeah, terrible thing to see if you understand. You stayed in touch with one of the lads who was conscripted, right. Have you heard anymore from that? That was a development from tonight. Yeah, tell me about that. So while we were walking about, this was about 15 kilometres out from the border, we met a young Ukrainian man and we just got to talking to him because, I mean, we could relate to him. We were about I'm, I'm about the same age as him. And so I we were just like sort of talking about our lives and it was almost as if the war wasn't going on and then we got to these army checkpoints. And they started calling all the men you have to you have to leave. And so my friend said, oh, I'm not, I'm not leaving. I don't want to fight in this war. And he tried to, you know, sort of stay with us because we were foreigners. We were not, we were not eligible to be conscripted. So he sort of tried to stay with us. He was, he was a student. He was trying not to fight in this war because he had a life elsewhere. He had a girlfriend who he who he was traveling with. And so we. We were walking with him and I said, hey, do you want to do an interview? He said sure. And I started talking to him on camera. And then the soldier came by and yelled in his direction, hey, you get out of line. And he said I'm sorry I have to go. And he just gave me this look like this, this bearing look. And he went with the soldier. The two days later today, tonight, he messaged me on Instagram and he said because we, by the way we had exchanged contact information where we were talking. He messaged me on Instagram and he said, hey, I saw that you mentioned me in in your Twitter because I told him about the Twitter as well. And he said just letting you know I'm safe and the five, I'm not in the east fighting the Russians. I'm in Leviev and I am safe and it is. To my knowledge that he may have escaped conscription because he would otherwise be in the East, but. I'm not sure. I just know that he is safe right now. And he confirmed that he was safe. OK. So yeah. So yeah. You're not sure whether he's sort of doing training or whether he's in some real restaurant role or if he's managed to get out of it somehow? I know that he has managed to escape the brunt of the fighting with the Russians. That's right. Yeah. OK yeah. Good for him. But he's got a terrible thing to have to deal with. So it's my understanding it's there's visa free entry into Poland right now. Is that right, that people can walk across the the entering the Poland? It's an absolute breeze compared to the exit from Ukraine. I don't know why, but you have to wait in a long line in Ukraine for an exit visa just for permission to leave the country. And so as I mentioned, that was the worst part because they were only letting 10 people out every 20 minutes. That 10 people get an exit visa every 20 minutes and there were at least 2000 people at the border with us. And so that's that's where this panic happened is because every time they open that gate, 20 every 20 minutes. And by the way, this is like 2 in the morning in the cold weather. People are, as I mentioned, crying, vomiting, fainting. And so every time they open that gate, there was a human crush to get to that gate, and they closed it and they forced the people back. And then it was another 20 minutes before it happened again. And this happened all night long, and this was literally just to get permission to exit the country. It was ludicrous. It was insane. Umm. So, yeah, I'm sorry to divert from your question, but it's very interesting. Poland was extremely easy to enter. There was no visa process. They understood. They they let us through. I think they just barely looked at our passports. So yeah, it was it was easy. Where you at that point, like obviously you had their plans or or places to go, so like did they house you as a some kind of refugee housing that they put you in? Not when I was there, they did do that. They did implement that about 12 hours after I arrived, but when I arrived. We were greeted immediately pretty much right out of the border facility with Donuts and tea and so they gave us Donuts. They gave us tea and then they said. Hey there's a bus to premiership, which is the city about 15 kilometers West of the border, where all the refugees are gathering and they said there's a bus that premise show leaves every 15 minutes and we got on that bus. And then we we arrived in premise Hill, and at that time, refugees were responsible for their own accommodation. We managed to book a room in a hotel with eight other refugees in the room. And so I was sleeping in this, this room with eight other refugees. They didn't want to talk to me. They were kind of despondent. They lost everything. And so they were just very sad the entire time that I was there. But to answer your question about housing, real quick, about 12 hours. After we arrived, they began setting up tents for the refugees, and that is where many of the refugees are living now are intense. OK? It's that, you know, that's a Polish government or the Red Cross or it's that citizens of Poland. I have no idea which organization did that, but I can tell you that I did not see a single Red Cross or United Nations representative while I was in Poland. OK, interesting. Yeah. They can be sometimes a little slow to react, right? Yeah. Yeah. OK. So you then stayed in that hostel, you weren't able to really talk to the people there. Understandable. They probably had a very, very difficult 24 hours and we all have had. Yeah, yeah. No talking was being had pretty much. Did you get a sense when you met the people? Walking there, crossing the border, etcetera, where people did they have plans to be gone from Ukraine? Were they thinking, where can I stay for a long period of time? Were they thinking, I'm going to wait this out in Poland and see? I was pleasantly surprised that a good half of the people that I spoke to in that in that convoy, in that refugee caravan, had relatives either in Poland or elsewhere in Europe. And so they were all they had, all called their relatives, and they had arranged them to go to Western Europe and meet their relatives. OK, yes. So they've got a place they're planning to to at least. However, another half of them have no plans whatsoever, and they're terrified. And those are the refugees. I stayed with hotel last night that they're terrified and they have no place to go. Yeah. Right. And no one's really provided them with one yet. And no, yeah, that's difficult. And it seems like it would be interesting to see how the United States reacts because it hasn't really done very much so far. It's amazing. I heard that the the reason I crossed at that place rather than any other place is that I heard that the US Army was there and I did not see the US Army and I searched for them and I did not find them. So I don't know where the US is. OK, yeah. You haven't seen any any evidence of like any seems like no sort of NGOs or government sort of aid for refugees yet then. It's kind of surprising. As I mentioned, I haven't seen any UN representative, any Red Cross representative, any who representative. I haven't seen any NGO or governmental representatives. I did see, of course, Polish government representatives at the border, but that was about it, right? It said from Polish people. Do you get a sense of sort of solidarity? They have good talk about personality. So it was actually amazing to see. It was heartwarming to see. The citizens of freshman bill are now swamped. Their population has been doubled or tripled by the incoming Ukrainian refugees, and yet they are showing great amounts of solidarity. I actually attended a solidarity rally today where the citizens of President Bill got together and they said Ukraine is our our brothers and Putin is clearly in the wrong and we will stand with them, we will show solidarity with them. And that that was heartwarming to say. I talked with a few of those. The poles at that rally and they said, yeah, we knew this was coming and we prepared for it and we were ready to take in as many as necessary. Yeah, that's really nice to hear achieve that. These people are sort of showing solidarity with each other and support with each other and yes, yeah. So when you were on your way WI presume that like the the conflict didn't catch up with you, right. You weren't sort of subject to it like indirect fire or in see any of that? No. However, there was about 50 kilometers behind us, a bombing. As I mentioned, we did not hear it, but there were reports of the fighting going on all the time. But it's not catch up to us while we were in that, while we were in that caravan. And it would have been absolutely terrifying if it had. But I'm glad that it didn't, right. Yeah. And then so you've been there for about a week. Had you previously been doing some reporting in Ukraine? I have never done reporting in Ukraine before, but when I came to Ukraine and the war had not yet started, I was mostly just doing interviews with civilians about what they thought about the possibility of war, about what they thought about the war in Donbass, most a lot of cultural stuff. It was kind of boring. I mean, not that not that war is interesting or fun, but it was not really much of a story. So I was just doing interviews with people about basic Ukrainian things and then the war found us so. Right. And it seemed to have come as much of a shock to them as it did to to the rest of us. As I mentioned, nobody was prepared for war until about 24 hours before it hit. And that's when the Ukrainian government said, yes, there will be a war and everybody began sort of to have a sense of urgency about them. Right. Did you see any of the, like, citizen militias and citizens preparing for defense that the people who decided to stay? Yes. I didn't see any of the militias, but I was went into a Ukrainian gun shop in Kiev and there was a line almost out the door. People were buying guns. And I asked one of the people in the line, why are you buying a gun? And he said if the Russians come, I want to be prepared. So a lot of people are buying guns privately in Kiev, at least as of last week, OK. So that they won't wait for the government to supply them. They were supplying themselves with guns, I believe. I believe the government. I was a rather. Sudden decision. I don't think the Ukrainian people were counting on it. And so they were supplying themselves. Right. And they're buying like, like Kalashnikov rifles or like, we talked about hunting rifles. Yeah. You can't buy Kalashnikovs in the gun store. They were buying sort of hunting rifles and shotguns. Jesus. OK yeah. Yeah. Very underequipped. Alright. So they they would just prepared to trying to get anything they could get their hands on to look after themselves and their families. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. I bought pepper spray. Better than nothing. Yeah. Yeah. OK. So yeah, there was, there was. Did you see, like, of the people you walked with, with it? Did families tend to leave as a whole? Or did did some folks say, right, I'm going to stay behind and fight or I'm going to stay behind to stay and look after our house and you should leave? Did you get the sense of that? The vast majority of people traveling were families as a whole. There were very few single travelers or partial families traveling. It was, I think, that people wanted to stick together. And so it was the vast majority of people traveling with families. OK yeah, yeah, yeah. They all stayed or left. Do you get a sense of how many people you said about 2000 people were at the border? Like of what proportion of the city decided to leave for Poland? Not all the people at the border were from leaving. A lot of them have been traveling since that morning from Kiev and other cities in central western Ukraine. So yeah, I was talking to people at the border and a lot of them were from Kiev. A lot of them were from Zephyr Osisa. I'm pronouncing that wrong. A lot of them were from Ternopil or Ivano Francysk or Odessa and. So I I would not have any sort of conjecture on what percentage of the city also is still pretty early in the crisis, because it was still the first day and it was fewer than 24 hours after the invasion began. So I imagine the numbers are a lot higher now. When you were getting news, right, as you were travelling etcetera, were you like on WhatsApp or were people on Twitter like how would they getting news of what was happening? Everybody and absolutely everybody was completely dark during the walk because. I don't know why, but there was no sense of cell reception. There was no sense of data reception. There was no sense of Internet connection at all during the walk. And so everybody I met, we we asked, we asked, everybody we met. Do you have any news? And they said no. Do you have any news? So nobody had any news until we got to the border. Some people had news, but for about about 16 hours we were completely in the dark about what was going on. And that was terrifying because when we left, the invasion had just begun. And we didn't get the to be updated on the first half day of it, so. Right. Yeah. It's crazy. Yeah. And then on arrival you're faced with this news of this like sort of blitzkrieg, almost, right, of of bombing and armour, right. Yes. I mean, we, we saw a little bit of it in the morning that day, well, when we when we started out. But it had really accelerated and amplified by the time that we arrived. And the Ukrainians were absolutely terrified of this because they did not realize what happened on such a large scale. Yeah, yeah, I think very few people did. Yeah. OK. Imagine if it's in your own country. It's petrifying. Were you there when the fighting began in the Chernobyl exclusion zone, or were you in Poland by then? When did the fighting begin in Chernobyl? I believe about 24 hours after the fighting began. Like. I was crossing into pole in 24 hours after the fighting began. So I was probably crossing into Poland when that fighting began. OK. You know, it's interesting to know especially how sort of the older people or people who have been alive, like, you know, the. The nuclear accident, you know, but I was wondering how they. Right. I mean, I I've been talking to plenty of plenty of older people. And as I mentioned, the older people especially were resigned to this because during the Soviet times during the Cold War, this sort of thing was common. And so the older people knew what was going on and the younger people were the ones who were more panicking. That's interesting. Yeah. They, they said they've been raised with a fear of that, I suppose. Right. And this happened in 1989, too, like 19. This is the biggest refugee crisis since 1989 because in 1989, when all the republics fell in the Warsaw Pact, so many people took to the roads. And so the older people were used to that kind of thing. But as I mentioned, the younger people were not so. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And so yeah. So different reactions, I guess, and then some very young people, obviously. Unable to understand what's going on beyond that. Their they're leaving their homes, which is sad, right? And especially the little children had no idea what was going on and it was impossible to explain to them, so nobody did. And so I can't imagine how terrifying this must have been as a child, not knowing why you had to walk dozens of hours in the cold carrying everything you had. Yeah, it's always the saddest thing to see children in those refugee situations when they, you know, they don't know what's going on and didn't do anything wrong. Right, yeah, hopefully they're all safe. Hopefully they're in Poland, hopefully they can. Go to safe places. I made several contacts during this trip, and as I mentioned, only one of them has gotten back to me, so I hope the others get back to me soon. Yeah, that's tough, but then you've got the sense of once they weren't turned back per se, they just might be sort of not in touch because their phones aren't charged or something like that. It's either their phone zone aren't charged, or even the men men's case they were sent to the east, or they're too busy trying to arrange accommodations or food for themselves or something. I mean, everybody was just very busy trying to survive. Yeah. So I don't blame them if they don't, if they don't hop on social media and get yeah, yeah, of course. And of course, yeah. Did very, very stressful time for everyone. Did you, did you hear of anyone who has been sent to the East, either second hand or like through people you met, people who were at the front already. I do not have any contacts of anybody who was sent to the East. From what I understand, the Ukrainian army has a strict communication, social media sort of policy. And so none of the soldiers that I met one wanted to talk to me. I did not talk to any Ukrainian army soldiers in uniform because they had very strict policy. They could not talk to me and to. I could not get their contacts for much of the same reason. OK, so you didn't want to talk to you and you didn't want to talk to anyone they were just looking for? Yeah, no, they they they were just they were very stern. And they did not want to talk to anybody. So I talked to zero soldiers in uniform during this experience. OK, yeah. So where are you now? You've you've gone further WW, is that right? That's right. I took a long bus ride to Krakoff today and so I'm now in Krakow, Poland. OK. How are folks feeling? Is indifferent there being that little bit more distant? I've already talked to a few people and, well, it's a Saturday night, they're going out to drink and they they're saying, well, yeah, it's it's terrible that this war is happening 250 miles east of us, but what are we supposed to do about it? So they're going out and drinking. So it's this very detached sense here in Krakow's not the same as it was in freshman Bill. Yeah, interesting. People are living their normal lives, and it's just, it's a news item for them. It's they're not worried about. Any potential right spillover of fallout? Right. OK. Yeah, they're not worried. Nice and well, you do you plan to stay there? What's what's next for you? So I actually just booked a flight an hour ago. I'm going to be flying back to the states on March the first. OK, great. Yeah, so you can you can come back and presumably you're like your US passport holder, so you could just get that's how you got through not being conscripted etc. I'm not. I'm not carrying US passport right now. I'm carrying an Italian passport because I'm also a citizen of Italy. And I was told before I left by some friends in the intelligence community that it would look significantly less suspicious to carry an EU passport than a US passport. So I brought the EU passport. Nice. Yeah. And then you can travel freely through the through Schengen. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know if Ukrainian people can gravel once because once they're in Poland, can they then move through the Schengen zone freely? Ukraine is not a member of the EU. They're not a member of Schengen. I do not believe they can move freely, right? Just wondering like. Yeah, it would be. I don't know how their passports would be checked if they're going across some of those land borders, but I think they, I do know that this was, it was an emergency situation, right, yesterday. And so that's why they were just very cursively checked. But I'm sure it's stricter usually. Yeah. I wonder what that would be like if they they tried to exit Poland or if they'll. Right. Yeah, I don't know what's going to happen to them. No, I don't think. I'm guessing there's been no communication of that that you've seen either, right? Lack of what they should do or how to apply for asylum or anything like that. I have talked to a few people. They say that they're banking on these countries being empathetic to refugees, and I understand, I think that countries will be empathetic to refugees. Mint Mobile offers premium wireless starting at just 15 bucks a month. And now for the plot twist. Nope, there isn't one. Mint Mobile just has premium wireless from 15 bucks a month. 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Seriously, you'll make your wallet very happy at mintmobile.com/behind. This fall on revisionist history, is there anything that we haven't talked about, or I should have asked you or you'd like to add that seems relevant? You should have asked me why I'm missing fingers on my left hand. A story about sacrifice. I think his suffering drove him to try to alleviate suffering. And the shocking discovery I made where I faced the consequences of writing a book I thought would help people? Isn't that funny? It's not funny at all. It's depressing. Very depressing. Revisionist history is back with more. Listen to revisionist history on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. I've never seen less enthusiasm for a great idea in my life. Hey, it's Rick Schwartz, one of your hosts for San Diego Zoo's Amazing Wildlife podcast. In this special episode, we sit down with Doctor Jane Goodall to hear her inspiring thoughts on how we can create a better future for humans, animals and the environment. Don't help them find ways of making a living without destroying the environment. We can't save chimps, forests or anything else, and that becomes very clear when you look at poverty around the world. If you're living in poverty, you can't afford to ask as we can. Did this product harm the environment? Was it cruel to animals like, was it factory farmed? Is it cheap because of unfair wages paid to people? And so alleviating poverty is tremendously important. Listen to amazing wildlife on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Yeah, yeah, you said you certainly hope they will. So they're just gonna hope that those countries, the ones who don't have a country to go to, you get the sense that you have that they'll they'll apply for asylum wherever they can find a safe place. That's right. And I believe that countries, Western European countries that have been very vocally pro Ukraine recently, we'll take them in. So I think that they'll they'll be safe. Yeah, that's good to hear. I know I've seen estimates of up to 5,000,000 refugees, which would be, I mean, Germany absorbed a million people from Syria, right. It's not, it's not impossible for Western European countries to do that at all, but it will. But it would still be a catastrophic crisis, the worst since 1989. So, and we have to hope it doesn't get to that. Do you get the sense people are still flowing across the border? I know you're a bit, yes. You think from it. I mean it. It's weird because you want to believe that what you experienced and what the people around you experienced was a one time thing, that it was a one time incident, that it was one caravan. But this is happening constantly and it will continue to happen constantly for weeks. Yeah. And they're trains and across the border, things like that, that people can take or is it solely? Yes. So when I when I said that I went to the train station and leave and there were no trains. What was really happening is, yes, there were trains, but all the trains until March, March were booked. So, OK, so yeah, people can take those trains across that kind of thing. If they try to book right now, they won't be able to find a booking for a while. OK, so they're already booked up. And by the way, here in Krakow, the first two hostels that I went to, the first two places to stay that I went to were all booked up. And I asked why? And they said Ukrainian refugees. So there are Ukrainian refugees here in Krakow. OK yeah. People are moving further. I'm sure a lot of people want to get as far away as they can. Yeah. So people are just constantly moving W right now. Yeah. Well, they have friends or family that they're trying to get to. Whatever. Yeah. And I've been hearing the Ukrainian language just constantly on my trip. So that's interesting too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, thanks for that. It's a really, really interesting insight. Is there anything else you think from your experience that people ought to hear about? Umm. No, I believe I've told you everything I've I've retold the story dozens of times since it happened, and I really hope that I hit all the all the right. Uh, notes here I if you if you had to tell anything to the people who were reading or listening to this. Ukraine really needs weapons, yes, but they also need humanitarian aid. When I was walking all that distance with all those people, there was not a single sense of food being provided to anyone, water being provided to anyone. There was no chance to go to the toilet. There was often no chance to sit down. If we could give even a chance for these people to eat something, to drink, something to have a minute of solace, that would mean the world to them. And so I think that we need to provide humanitarian aid to the refugees as soon as possible. Yeah, and you, you said you didn't see any organisations you'd suggest people donate to? Like you. You didn't see any of that. Is there anyone you can now and then? I don't know. I haven't actually done the research into it. I probably should, but I. I know that the Welcome committee in Poland were private citizens. They were not part of any NGO or anything. They were private citizens who were welcoming us and. Yeah, I've seen some of them organizing on Facebook, so I'll try and maybe link to some of those or or something like that so people can support, right? Yeah, well, you and alright. And then is there anything like you'd like to plug? Like do you have a, you have a Twitter, right? Is there anything else you could tell us what your Twitter is? I mean, so the Twitter that I'm using for this, which you've probably seen is a temporary one. It was my only to cover this crisis. I guess my private Twitter plugged that. My which is you've seen that as well, probably, yeah, it's just my name. Yeah, I guess just plug that. And I mean, thank you for everything. No, of course it's Manny Marotta with two T's, right? Yes, MAROTA, great. OK, we got that. And yeah, thank you very much. Thanks for taking the time to talk. I appreciate you. Pretty difficult couple of days. So get some rest and if there's anything else, any developments, please do let me know, give me a shout. Thank you. Alright, cheers mate, you have a good evening. Hey everyone, it's Bobby Brown. You might know me as the makeup artist beauty expert. You might also know me as the founder of Jones Rd Beauty. But today I'm here with a brand new podcast, the important things. On this new podcast I'll be joined by my co-host and dear Friend International, best selling author, attorney and Ted Talk alum, Anjali. Kumar together, we want to answer the question, how can you lead a life of fulfillment? The ongoing pandemic has given us all the opportunity to examine what really matters most to us and what brings us true contentment. Each week, through candid conversations with friends, thought leaders, creators, and entrepreneurs, Bobby and I are looking for ways we can all learn to live more authentic, gratifying lives. You can look forward to learning from our amazing guests, including the incomparable. Gloria Steinem, entrepreneur and designer Jennifer Fisher, Senator Cory Booker, charity founder Christy Turlington Burns, and many, many more. So join us every other week as we dig deep into the stuff that really matters on the important things. Listen to the important things on the iHeartRadio App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If I could be you and you could be me for just one hour. If you could find a way to get inside each other's mind. Walk a mile in my shoes. Walk a mile in my shoes. We've all felt left out, and for some, that feeling lasts more than a moment. We can change that, learn how it belonging begins with us.org, brought to you by the ad council. I'll miss you. Hello, I'm Stacey Wilson hunt, your host for inventing Anna, the official podcast. Shonda Rhimes and the creators at Shondaland inventing Anna tells the story of a young woman who charmed her way into the pocketbooks of New York's elite. Was she gonna take off with that $20 million from the banks or was she gonna pour it into this foundation? You know, people look at Anna and see what they want to see. On this podcast, you'll get VIP access to the real people who inspired the television series and to the actors and creatives like showrunner Shonda Rhimes, who brought them to life. We were working on the show while the trial was going on. I remember doing a dramatic. Eating of Todd's opening statement for the writers room. Who is the fake heiress Anna Delvey? Join us as we unravel the stories behind the story. Everything's true until it's not basically an Anna's world. Listen to inventing Anna, the official podcast, every Wednesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. That's that's that's the thing. Just take photos of his children walking into the door of their public school. Send them to him with the Pro ProtonMail account. Yeah. Don't let him know what he did to provoke this. Just just frighten him. I do like it. All this is being recorded. Yeah, that's that's how you do it. The episodes begun. We're including all of that. Sophie, all of that welcome Dave could happen here, the podcast where we will take pictures of your children entering a public school and send them to you as a threat, but we won't tell you what you're threatening you over, because that's. I don't know what that is. Probably terrorism, technically, Sophie speaking, Speaking of child abuse. Yeah, great. Garrison. Very proud. Nailed it. Yeah. Yeah. So we're gonna be, we're gonna, we're doing an episode to talk about. The recent kind of letter and opinion piece that the Governor of Texas and the Attorney General wrote relating to trans kids in Texas where we're also planning like a like a more like a week long worth of stuff kind of going into this issue across not not just the states but also like like internationally as well in terms of like the growing kind of war on trans people. But because this thing happened, we we do want to kind of talk about it now as well before we you know spend a lot of time making a week long. That's worth of of of scripted pieces on it. So anyway, we're going to be talking about what happened last last weekend or last week at time of recording when the Texas Attorney General, Ken Paxton, released an opinion piece on I think it was it was a Monday, the 21st declaring gender affirming medical care for transgender children to be a child abuse. In response, the next day the Governor of Texas, Greg Abbott, directed the Texas Department of Family. And Protective Services to investigate these practices and then kind of on that following Wednesday, the letter that Greg Abbott wrote went viral detailing both the attorney general's kind of opinion that a number of the so-called quote sex change procedures constitute child abuse under existing Texas law and directing the family and Protective Services to protect these to quote UN quote protect these kids from abuse. And I hereby director agency to conduct a prompt and thorough investigation. But any reported instances of these abusive procedures? And what's really insidious is that, like, it's not even, it's like, of course, like there is not gender affirming surgery done on minors anyway. That does not happen. But the but this letter actually does go into it says it's it, says a. According according to the General Attorney General opinion, it is already against the law to subject Texas children to a wide variety of elective procedures for gender transitioning, including reassignment surgeries that can cause. Realization removals of otherwise healthy body parts and administration of puberty blocking drugs or doses of testosterone or estrogen. So it's not it. It is also including HRT, including puberty blockers, which again, we already give to cisgender children all the time. Puberty blockers are given to kids who have early onset puberty who are assists, but it's now including puberty blockers inside like constituting that in its in and of itself as child abuse, which is kind of an escalation of things that we've seen before. Yeah, and then it's also, uh, talking about how Texas law imposes reporting requirements upon all licensed professionals, including doctors, nurses, teachers, therapists and provides, you know, criminal penalties for failure to report things. So, like it is. That that that was that was the, the, the that was the main part of the of the letter that went viral detailing. The different, different ways that they're trying to harass, intimidate and introduce possible legal, legal repercussions to parents and, you know, caregivers who support transgender youth inside the state of Texas. Yeah, it is. It is like the perfect example of the thing these people always do when they make laws based on their bigotry, which is like, reflexively make a law based on whatever is like the ******* Twitter talking point that they've been yelling about. And then don't consider all of the different things that it's going to do that have nothing to do with the group of people they're trying to hurt. Because in lots of cases this is just going to, it's not even going to. It's going to impact a lot of, like, queer people in general. Like in terms of like reporting things that seem outside the mainstream, so not even necessarily, not even necessarily transgender people, not even necessarily queer people as well. Like there's a lot of like, you know, I I definitely when I was growing up, there was a lot of like sis girls who enjoy dressing more like Butch or tomboy. You know, there's, there's and there's a whole bunch of stuff that will just affect like kids in general with all of this reporting and all of this like and making making these like procedures and like hormone treatments. I like, you know, trying to make them seem like they're legal because that because again like the actual Texas law has not changed. It is, it is the IT is, this is an opinion piece invest directing the Child Protective Services to investigate these things. So the actual law on the books hasn't changed. What it has done is caused a whole bunch of like possible legal danger and a massive headache and just a whole bunch of like legal harassment against parents and kids. And that's what it's going to that's going to result in because it's unclear what this what the governor's. I was going to actually practically look like because in the in the in a tweet on on last Tuesday, he said that he's directing the Child Protective Services to enforce this ruling and investigate and refer to for prosecution for instances of minors receiving affirming care. And then the Texas Protective Services told Time magazine on Wednesday that it's going to comply with the governor's directive. But in terms of like directing them for prosecution, there has been like 5 Tech District district attorneys, including the DA's. Of a Dallas County and and Houston's Travis County. They issued a statement to the day after condemning the directive and saying that they plan to enforce the Constitution to put their quote UN quote. That's what they said and that they are, quote, deeply disturbed by Governor Abbotts and Attorney General Paxton's cruel directives treating transgender children's access to life saving, gender affirming care as child abuse. We will not irrationally and justifiably interfere with medical decisions made between children, their parents and their medical physicians to ensure the safety of transgender. With adding that we will not allow the governor or attorney general to disregard Texas children's lives in order to score political points. So in terms of, you know, there's certain parts of the certain parts of the state where even even if Protective Services does investigate reports of this, they're not going to get prosecuted. But there will be other parts of the state where they probably will like and because like it's because it is, just because it is just an interpretation of the law, you can still, you can still get lots of legal trouble and it's going to be up to juries and other people. You decide on what interpretation of the law is going to be enforced and enacted upon. So you're seeing a lot of people being like, Oh no, it's actually OK because the law is not changing. It's just the interpretation. And we're like, well, no, it actually is a big problem. Like it is like, and it's not even, it's just the overall like it's saying the things that have been gone unsaid for a long time, like it it's it's it's making the things that everyone kind of assumed or was kind of the unsaid bigotry, putting it into writing and making it concrete. And it's like. The overall escalation of this thing, which is, which is, is deep, deep, deeply concerning. I mean it's the thing that happened with like COVID restrictions like masks and stuff where you've got the cities and stuff where you have kind of more rational leadership are saying like we're not, we're not paying attention to this directive from the governor. We're going to keep having letting people mask and we're not going to let you, you know, go after businesses that require masks, but with the added dimension of like the rather than it being sort of targeting. Businesses and schools, it's it's targeting individuals and it's allowing individuals to target other individuals like this. Yeah. The Texas abortion law. Exactly. And the primary purpose of this is going to be to basically gradually erode the areas in which which trans kids can can live in Texas. Like, Yep, they'll be able to live in some of the cities for a while at least. Well, and even even in the cities. Right. It's like, yeah, OK, so maybe the the the A doesn't prosecute, but that doesn't mean that CPS can't just can't investigate you and, like, that's. That's gonna be this is really traumatic, yeah, a lot of legal harassment because I mean, like. DFPS cannot remove any child from their parents or guardians without a court order. And no court in Texas or anywhere in the country has yet found gender affirming care to be considered child abuse. So it has not happened yet. But they sure wanted to happen and this is, these are the, these are the next steps that can make it happen, right. They are trying to get there with this like incremental this, like these incremental things, you know, starting off with like legal interpretations of the law. Eventually they would want to change the law just to reflect. This opinion, right? Like they want this to happen. They're just they're trying to slowly, slowly, slowly get at it. And it needs to be pushed back upon because, yeah, and we get any slow incremental thing that they're gonna try to do to make it basically impossible to live as trans in Texas and you know, lots of other states as well. It's not just, it's not just Texas. There's things like this happening across all of the United States basically, especially especially, you know, portions of portions of the South. And it's. Yeah. It it does play into this kind of overall in the past five years, you know, once they lost the gay marriage issue, they're like, OK, the next line of defense for these people is making it be impossible to be trans. So it is that it's like the new that's the new thing they're going to be really focusing on. And we've seen so many, so many new bills against against like being trans over the course of the past five years. Again, it's it is more so putting into writing the things that have been always kind of unconscious bigotry or even conscious bigotry. But it's putting that into actual stone and making it like cemented. You know, just just at the start of this year, there was new restrictions put in place for Texas as a transgender student, athletes playing on K through 12 school sports teams. That that went into effect on January 18th there was a it was a House Bill 25 authored by representative Valerie Swanson requires student athletes to complete in interscholastic competition to play on sports teams that correspond with the sex listed on their birth certificate at or near their time of birth. Which means that the legislation went further than the previous rules from the University of Scholastic League which governs the schools sports in Texas in which the students gender is determined. By their birth certificate. But that that can also be legally modified. Like you can change the sex assigned at birth on only on your birth certificate. The the new ruling is that it needs to be, it needs to match the one that it was at or near your time of birth. So again, like they're finding all these little, these little small like things to like pry that just makes things overall. Be harder to live in. And at this point, like 1010, other states have put in very similar laws relating to like relating to to school sports and like bathroom bills and yeah. Yeah. I mean it's it's the it's the same thing that authoritarians always do, which is they're just kind of edging further and further and and continuing to proceed as they do not meet resistance. And the goal is to make it illegal and impossible to exist as a transgender person in society. You know, part of what they're doing with the, with the wording of how this change in Texas has been announced is they're trying to frame being trans as a contagion that threatens children and step one of that under the. Is is going proceeding under the age of so if we are protecting children by making these kind of surgeries and stuff illegal, but the steps beyond that are eventually banning and restricting the ability of trans people to be around children and eventually be in civil society at all because they're a threat to children that that that's the the logical procession of the arguments that they're making and I think they're proceeding in a fairly. Logical way in in terms of achieving that as a goal and they're not going to stop until they are stopped by probably force. If anything stops it at this point, that's that's what it's going to have to be because the local government has realized that that's how you get elected because you can't. You can't fix the power grid in Texas, you can't provide people with anything that makes their lives easier, but you can hurt trans people and Republicans. There are will are always down with that. It's it's it's it's the thing fascists do where they introduce a false Christ, they introduce a false crisis that they can actually take steps to. To, you know, make changes about, but all that ends up doing is hurting more of the population. It doesn't actually solve any issue that actually hurts people. It's it's one of the core things in the fascist playbook, and it's, you know, it's even in the states where there aren't just like blanket bans on kids being able to participate in sports teams. There's other horrifying things happening. Like in the beginning of February, it came out that the Utah Republicans proposed a Commission to analyze trans kids bodies. Utah Republicans introduced the first of its kind anti trans sports bill that would form a Commission to determine a student athletes eligibility on a case by case basis. The Commission would have authority to establish a baseline range for various attributes including height, weight, body mass, wingspan, hip to knee ratio and other physical characteristics affected by puberty bearing trans athletes who do not fall within the established limits to from from participating in gendered sports and yeah, asking like a government appointed panel to analyze the bodies of trans minors. It does sound like a giant recipe for disaster, and there is some even more like horrifying details. The bill would render the Commission quote immune from suit, like lawsuits with respect to all acts done and actions taken in good faith in carrying out their purposes. So, yeah, you can't sue anybody for what happens under the guise of this Commission. So yeah, they're just going to be investigating trans youth bodies, and Yep, you can't. There's no lawsuits allowed. It's let let's let's let's let's let's give the let's give the trans child abuse phrenology panel just immunity from lawsuits like yeah yeah qualified extend qualified immunity to citizens hurting the group of people that we don't think are human. Like this isn't the only way place we're going to see that logic extended towards. You're already seeing it in places like Louisiana with these bills to make it legal to kill protesters if you feel threatened. Yeah, like it's it's the same playbook and it's going to be the same playbook because there's no way to fight it without some sort of force. You you can't vote these people away. The courts are packed for the time being there's there's only. There, there's not a solution that isn't some kind of force. Now, we can discuss is it like, the force of of getting the feds to intervene or whatever? But, like, there's no, there's no solution. That is just, like, democratic, I mean. And, like, Biden's office made a statement on this recent Texas law, like a law, opinion, interpretation thing. And they're like, yeah, this thing was bad. Anyway, good luck. And you're like, yeah, oh, cool. Yeah. It's that, that meme of, like, the person drowning. Put their hand up out of the water and they high five US. You're thinking of you as you're thinking, yeah, that's exactly what's happening. And I think the situation is like, is it's worse than that too. Because, you know, in in the past couple of weeks when something we started seeing is we started seeing democratic journals and Democratic strategists openly talking about how we need to make concessions to the right and the culture war is like, OK, well, what does that mean? It's like, yeah, throw trans on the bus, right? Yeah. Because they can't vote. They're already freaks. So yeah, they're the easiest person to pick away at the rights for. And because overall, just in the past year alone, more than 100 bills designed to restrict the rights of transgender people have been introduced to at least 33 states. It's a it's a it's a record-breaking year for anti trans legislation that's been that has been introduced in Arkansas. The state legislature recently banned gender affirming treatment for minors, including hormone therapy like pure, like puberty blockers and similar treatments. Again, this is the thing that like, that could not happen for a long time anyway, just because like culturally and medically doctors would never do that. But now at the point where that started starting to change, it is this, it is this like reactive, reactive. Affect the people are doing and be like now that these cogs are turning, people are putting the massive brakes on it and putting the thing that used to be just unsaid now into actual legal writing. So now this actually is like just not allowed, as opposed to it just not happening because doctors were ********. So yeah, in Arkansas you can't even receive hormone treatment or puberty blockers. The bill was called the Save Adolescence from Experimentation Act. Yeah, so referring to medical treatment of one of affirming one's gender identity as experimentation. Which is not great. I mean that is that is how I view it for myself because I like being a freak, but as an overall trend that is that is horrible. Like that is a horrible way to to phrase this type of thing for a lot of people, especially the people who who know specifically what gender they like wants to be and and are like that is that affects them so differently. I mean I'm I'm lucky enough just to be more gender queer ish. And yeah it's all of these bills are going to affect so many. People in different ways and. It's it's real bad. Like shortly after the Arkansas bill prohibiting transforming medical practices was signed into law last April, reports of suicide attempts among trans youth in the state. Were going up and the doctor, Michelle Hutchinson, who runs the largest provider of hormone therapy in the state, called the AP that just just in her office alone during April, she saw an uptick in suicide attempts from from from trans youth. And this is this is it's going to keep happening. And like there is, you can't trust a lot to stop it, like the Arkansas governor. ASA Hutchinson, a Republican, did veto this bill, citing potentially dangerous consequences for trans youth and telling it that it, telling reporters that it was a vast government overreach and a byproduct of the culture war in America. And her veto was vetoed by the state legislator. So, like, it's going to be a looping, endless problem of legal issues. So it's there's, there's need to be other things like, I've been, I've been on Twitter the past week, just watch it, looking at all the GO fund MES by parents of trans kids in Texas who are trying to move out of state. So that their kid can receive, like, hormone treatment and just, like be allowed to be a person without being harassed by Child Protective Services and teachers and the school system. And it's it's it's it's horrifying. Like watching all these people, like asking for help so they can move out of state so that they can let their kid be just a kid. And it's it is. It is really rough and. Big part of why, part of why it's so horrifying is that, like, obviously if you're in that situation, you can get your kid out there, of course. But it also means the the more people who move out of places like that, the less resources there will be in the future for kids whose parents can't get them out, you know? And the less support there will be, the less. And like, there is just there is no real escape from it. Like, you cannot get fully away. It is. You cannot ever fully escape that type of fascist thought. Can creep in within the state legislature and specifically around you know how it's gonna affect different different classes of minorities. Umm I I will direct people if you want to kind of learn more about this sort of thing and if you you know you can you can find some some stuff around there there's an organization in Texas called Tent which is the. I just want to make sure I say it right. Oh no it's the Texas educational network or the the Trans Educational Network of Texas. It's. One of those, but it is it is a, it is a. It has a whole bunch of, like, mental health resources guides for trans youth in Texas for how to make things slightly less ******. And yeah, they do. They do some advocacy work in Texas. There's also equality Texas, which is another organization that does that does some. Assistance for transgender people like in schools and justice, you know, try again, trying to make life slightly less, slightly less ******. Yeah, I kind of the, the, the, the last. The last thing I wrote is the is just a fix your hearts or die, which is. The kind of overall, overall message that you can really only give to people who want to do this type of thing is that, yeah, there's really no arguing with them. You have to either they need to fix their hearts or not be around anymore. Like they're just like whether that be like just secluded to your part of society. But it's like it it needs to be actually like resisted upon because these people are never going to back down on their own. The other part of the problem here again is just with how. You know like this this is sort of kind of this is an inherent problem that you have with democracies right with with democracies and civil rights words. Yeah. You have a group of people who aren't extremely small minority and you know and you know and and and this gets compounded by the fact that you're dealing with extremely small minority of people and. You know, you're already dealing with like the, you know, the, the the thing that is called democracy, right is only participated in by an extremely small number of people. Especially when you get, you know, especially you get down to like the the state level and the local level, right. Like very few people actually voting in these things. The people who are voting in these things like want trans people to die. And so you know, you, you, you you you need some kind of other solution to actually secure. To secure civil rights because. There's just there's there literally are not enough trans people and there are not enough people who support them and care enough to do it and also are in these areas to prevent this through just the normal like Vote Blue. I mean like I keep saying this with with Texas, everyone keeps saying it's like, well OK, we just got to Vote Blue. And it's like people have been like people have been saying this about stuff in Texas for as long as I've been alive. It has never happened ever. Like it hasn't my entire life. Like they they keep saying is it keeps not happening and kids keep dying and. Yeah, there, there has. There has to be something else because, yeah, Texas gonna come back here. Texas has been laboriously constructed as a political entity to stymie all of your liberal dreams of of it going purple. And and it will continue to be for the foreseeable future, like you cannot. This is not a a voting. Issue this is a. I mean, like I said, some kind of force is going to have to be used to oppose these people. They're not. They're not there. They wouldn't listen if you voted them out, you know, and like, and they do not like. They themselves do for is. You look at all the stuff like, this is force. Yeah. And and and even, like, regular people like this whole, like, thing of like, yes, you should, like, report to your neighbors that you see if you if you see a kid who doesn't look like a regular normal boarding system child, then yeah, you should report them and you should go harass everyone who works in your school board. So that they ban all books referencing anything related to being queer. It's like they they do take steps to actually hurt other individuals and they they they can do it through these means that, you know, they don't necessarily have to always punch you in the face, but they can sure direct the state to send agents to your house to to like to intimidate, harass you, and threaten to threaten to take away your children. Or they can, you know, if you're a therapist or a teacher, you can be fired or. Put in jail for failing to report, you know, kids who don't subscribe to their Christian supremacist ideas of, like, traditional gender roles. Because again, it's it's it's not even all it's like. Again, there's not tons of trans people in general. You usually so like, this is just going to affect a lot of CIS kids as well who maybe don't want to, who don't, who don't, who don't, who just want to dress cool like it's like it's it's it's it doesn't even just like it. It is. It is. It does affect everybody. So it is, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a horrible, it's a horrible thing that is not even, like there's no escape from it and it it it will affect you whether or not you're trends or not. Yeah. And I and I I I think it's important to also talk about the mandatory reporting stuff because even with mandatory reporting in general, like even like I've, I've, I've had things where I was in a school and my school essentially turned into a police state because there are people who I couldn't talk to about things because of things that happened to me that if, if, if, if any of them heard it and one time someone did and I had to literally. Like them like on my knees. Not to report me, right? Not not to report the thing that happened to me. Because if you know. Because because if if if that had been heard like and if that had actually been reported, it would have, you know, would have started an enormous process and I would have had to. Mint Mobile offers premium wireless starting at just 15 bucks a month. And now for the plot twist. Nope, there isn't one. Mint Mobile just has premium wireless from 15 bucks a month. There's no trapping you into a two year contract. 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This fall on revisionist history, is there anything that we haven't talked about, or I should have asked you or you'd like to add that seems relevant? You should have asked me why I'm missing fingers on my left hand. A story about sacrifice. I think his suffering drove him to try to alleviate suffering. And the shocking discovery I made where I faced the consequences of writing a book I thought would help people? Isn't that funny? It's not funny at all. It's depressing. Very depressing. Religious history is back with more. Listen to revisionist history on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. I've never seen less enthusiasm for a great idea in my life. Hey, it's Rick Schwartz, one of your hosts for San Diego Zoo's Amazing Wildlife podcast. In this special episode, we sit down with Doctor Jane Goodall to hear her inspiring thoughts on how we can create a better future for humans, animals and the environment. Anything, particularly young children out into nature so that they can experience it and take time off from this virtual world of being always on your cell phones and so on. And get the feel of nature so that you come to be fascinated, then you come to want to understand it, and then you come to love it, and at that point you want to protect it. And then we'll come to the sort of healthy world that I envision as a good future for us. And the rest of life on this planet. Listen to amazing wildlife on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Go. Yeah. Like the the I I I would have had to you know deal with this like this is an institutionalized thing and. That like the absolute terror that. This kind of stuff creates where you have to, you know, you have to watch every single word that you say around all of the adults in your life because if you don't do it, they are going to report you. It is like the the level of psychological terror you are inflicting on people is horrific. And that in and of itself just is is a cost like and and it and it is something that is is is going to contribute to trans kids killing themselves and it's it's it's just that simple and that bleak. It is such a life and death issue. So you have to really be forced to go, yeah it goes into like they're like ontological issue as well and it deals with so many things around the nature of like being and what you're allowed to be inside as this societal construct. And they're just trying to make that impossible for so many people, and they make everything so limited in their very narrow version of what they want the world to be that makes them feel comfortable. Yeah. And and you know, because because it's not it's not what the world is. They have to use violence to do it. Yeah. So because it sucks because that is the rule that that is that is the rules that we're playing by. That is the game we're playing. Yeah. My, my only the, the, the the default response to be for those people is yeah, they need to they need to fix their hearts or die and just get out of the way. And because it's that's they they already have that for us, except they don't want us to fix their hearts. They just want us to die. So, like, we are way more empathetic than they are because they can just not be transphobic. They cannot, they can. They can just not do these things. But if they're going to keep doubling down, then yeah, well, let's if if you want to play by their rules, then we need to start playing by their rules because they're not going to have if if they're not going to change the rules, then. That is the that is the game that they want us to do. And again like actual like I I wanna I always, I always episodes like this. I always want to kind of end with like here are some steps that you can like take that are relatively easy and it's it's it's challenging for these types of sorts of things like like there yes there is things you can do around you know getting make like making sure you're aware of what bills are being talked about in your local in like your local area contacting representatives to to do stuff going to, going to you know either their school board meetings or staff but like. A lot of the electoral list type of ideas around this feels always so inadequate that it feels always so fake that you know it's it's it is so much. It feels a lot easier to that to like you know figure out different ways to actually help actual trans people in your area and give trans people money like that is often can be actually have a way more positive effects at least effects that are like observable but like but there are also ways to stop this type of legislation like there is there is there, there is ways to do that. And. I I will. I'll try to get into more of that kind of stuff as well once we get, you know, our, our week long of stuff about the war on trans people that will be upcoming probably sometime in this in this next month. Yeah. Remember folks, if anybody ever suggests doing something for children that isn't providing them with food or shelter, you should probably hit that person, because they're probably trying to **** something up for somebody. It's nearly always don't trust anyone who says they're need to do something to protect children that they're lying to you as. As a rule, they're lying to you. Umm. Anyway, you guys, how's the. Boy, that Star Wars. Oh yeah, I love when there's the, there's the, there's the the Obi Wans coming out. That'll be good. I am excited for the OB wants because everyones will be good. Speaking of speak, Speaking of you and McGregor, a few months ago I saw the film Velvet Goldmine starring Ewan McGregor, which is a wonderful, like pseudo fictional film but about kind of the glam rock era inside Britain. It's very, very, very gay, very a whole bunch. That makes a whole bunch of very good ***** action. And there was one scene. Where are you Macgregor's character? He's he's like, he's kind of based off one of the one of those types of music people. I I forget. I forget which one it is. I think Ziggy people, ohh I think, I think, I think, I think he's playing like a kind of a version of that. But there is one scene where he's doing performance where he takes all of his clothes off on stage and you get to see you in McGregor's **** and yeah you do. So if people, if people want to see a kind of David Bowie esque film starring Yona Gregor, it has, it has like a weird gay e-mail, Christian Bale as as a ***** and a whole bunch of other really, really solid ***** stuff I would recommend watching. They're gold mine. It has it has a lot of great stuff and you do very early in the film get to see you and Macgregor's penis just flapping around on stage. And it is. It's pretty good. It's Speaking of movies where you see a famous person's **** if you want to see another famous penis. The movie Galaxy Quest contains several shots of Tim Allen Dong. I want to see Tim Allens hanging Wang. That's as someone who's seen both Galaxy Quest and Velvet Goldmine and who appreciates both films dearly. You, you and you. And McGregor is miles hotter than Tim Allen. Tim Allen's Dong shot is not hot. It's not. Please. It is not supposed to be. He is hungover in his, like, bathrobe leaning over groaning. But if you want, if you want to see fancy Rainer Fassbender's **** Germany and autumn, OK, that's I I could. I could. I could do that very weird movie, however. Alright, alright, alright. Well, in terms of in terms of actionable things to make you feel better. Everyone go watch. Vella gold mine, because it has some very it has some very good gender play, has wonderful, yeah, wonderful stuff around gender, wonderful stuff around gayness. And yeah, the film from like the 90s where there was like lots of gay ******* and you're like, wow, how is this film made in the 90s? Because it is a whole bunch of like big name actors now who were like unknown at the time, all being gay and ******* each other and you're like, holy ****. Well, jokes, that is the that's what we got there. There's your action items. This action item. Go, go, watch. Go watch velvet goldmine. Make everyone you know watch Velvet Goldmine and I'll make you feel good about gender. Take screen grabs of you and Macgregor's ****. Make burner Twitter accounts and just start posting. Just just get it out there. Get it out there. The world needs to know. Throw some of Tim Allen's **** out there too. Don't be. Don't be choosy. Stick it all. All the *****. All right? That's going to be the day. That's the show. On a cold morning in 1977, Sandy Beale was found shot to death in her car. There's no way. It's just, it's just no way that there's going to be. Couldn't believe it. Her death was ruled a suicide, but her family has never bought the official story. Instead, they suspected a cover up. I didn't take any of that crap because I could tell that they were hiding something. My name is Melissa Gelsen. I'm a reporter who covers violence against women. My new podcast, what happened to Sandy Beale, takes a closer look at Sandy's mysterious death. Sandra could've been retired by now. She's doing life 6 feet underground because when Sandy was found dead, it suddenly made a lot of people very nervous. She had a lot going for her, I can't imagine in one year. Things going that tragically wrong. Listen to what happened to Sandy Beale starting March 9th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Look the your children's eyes to see the true magic of a forest. It's a storybook world for them. You look and see a tree. They see the wrinkled face of a wizard with arms outstretched to the sky. They see treasure and pebbles. They see a windy path that could lead to adventure. And they see you. Their fearless guide is as fascinating world. Find a forest near you and start exploring at discovertheforest.org, brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the Ad Council. Hey, it's tulipa. I'm here to tell you about my brand new podcast, Dua Lipa at your service. I'll be sitting down with the world's most inspiring minds to uncover what makes them tick, what they've learned from their successes, failures and the obstacles life has thrown at them. We're going deep with people revolutionizing not just their own industries, but also culture more broadly, from Lisa to Deyo, the author redefining what it means to tell women's stories to the fashion industry virtuoso Olivier Rousting. You'll even hear me break bread with some of the most iconic and vicious names in pop culture, like Sir Elton John. After a lot of upsets, a lot of disappointments, a lot of betrayals, it's turned out to be the most wonderful life right now that I could have ever imagined. I can't wait to share all of this and more with you. Listen to Dua Lipa at your service on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to it could happen here, a podcast that is, you know, this this this is a podcast about the world falling apart. The world is, in fact, falling apart extremely quickly right now. And I'm I'm I'm your host, Christopher, and I am here today to talk about an immense occupying army with an extensive record of torture and extrajudicial killings. I'm referring, of course to the Chicago Police Department and with with me to talk about yet more just absolute horrors that this department has committed here and worldwide. I have Raven, who is a journalist in Chicago. Free media. Raven, welcome to the show and thank you for joining us. Hi. Thank you for having me. Yeah, how how have you been holding U in these? Oh boy, things are going bad times. Yeah. You know, we we had discussed doing this interview earlier this week, and I don't think either of us expected Russia to invade Ukraine last night. That was it. Yeah, and that wasn't even the. Yeah, it was the confusion. Yeah, this is this is a, this is a A. Time of of chaos and death. But I I think it's important to understand that he has all he has always been a time of chaos and death and. Yeah, and and I think it's especially where the Chicago Police Department is concerned. We've talked about. We've talked about some of their more famous crimes on the show, but I wanted to have Raven on to talk about. A police killing that I don't think got that much attention. I mean even if you guys got a lot of tension in Chicago, but even inside of Chicago, I don't think it's as well known as some of the other police killings and that's the killing of Rekia Boyd. Yeah. Do you want to walk us through? How? But basically what what happened the night that Dante servant killed Ricky Boyd and? Yeah, we can start from there. Sure, sure. I mean, there's some context here for sure about sort of the. The way we ignore the murders of black women specifically and you know, Rekia Boyd was was murdered after sort of like the first wave of of national Black Lives Matter protest. So it wasn't like it wasn't on the radar, right, that people weren't talking about police killing black people. But there you know, there is this longstanding issue, of course, with like. The killings of black women specifically not getting as much attention, right? And this was just such a horrible, horrible incident that like. I mean, looking at the details, even though I live here and I was like around when it happened and some of our other you know, the other journalists and our collective covered the protests and and and the the court drama and everything, it's still just blows my mind the way this happened and. You know, ultimately, the most important thing to take away from it is that her family never saw justice. He walked away. He walked away from the incident and then went on to start training police in Latin America, which we can talk about also. So so not only did this did the Chicago police officer who was off duty with an unregistered gun murder and innocent 22 year old Black woman hanging out with her friends in a park. He then got a job with like a tactical training institute to travel to Honduras and train police there. Yeah, I think, yeah, we can. I think we, yeah, we we definitely will be getting to the sort of international right angle of this. But yeah, sport of American policing essentially, yeah. But I guess for people who aren't familiar with what happened, can we can we walk through that? Yeah, so? So Cervin showed up at a park. With an unregistered gun. Umm. Key you know, witnesses reported that he smelled like alcohol that night. He may have been drinking. I don't know that that was a reverified, but certainly wouldn't be surprising. Umm. Showed up at this park to complain about a group of people making noise. And. One of our key avoids friends approached the car with his cell phone in his hand, which serving then would go on to say thought was a gun. And. Started firing shots and and shot rukiya board in the head. He wasn't on duty, he wasn't actively policing. This was totally, totally outside of the realm of duty incident, right? Umm. And. No weapon was ever recovered from the scene. Nothing like that. I mean, it was there was no in no universe was there any justification for this, right? It justify it defies logic like that, that it could even happen this way. And after it happened, you know, so not only did he kill Rekia Boyd in this park. But after it happened, there was there was just a lot of like there were a lot of missteps in in the justice system. And it had been, I think I want to say, like 17 years at that point since a Chicago cop had actually been charged with with murder, right? So it had been a long time since there had been even any accountability. And. Umm. Basically the prosecutor there was something called a directed verdict where the prosecutor essentially under charged him intentionally or we think it was intentionally. With. Was like reckless conduct and manslaughter, and the judge tossed the case. Because. The judge was saying, you know, it didn't even meet the criteria for for reckless conduct because it was clearly first degree murder and then he couldn't be tried again because of rules surrounding double jeopardy. Which is like just a. But it's like what like it's it's such like I was reading this like it's baffling like it's like the the this whole thing is like it's it's very like very very seems very clearly set up to fail. It's like, yeah like we're we're going we're going to intentionally have a case where we try this guy with things that you that you just you cannot convict him of because it like again it's it's it's not it's not like manslaughter. He just he he drove up and shot her. Like he he he very very clearly with intention shot Rekia Boyd and it very much seems like they planned this out that they were like and you know this is we talked about this on on their last CPD episode like prosecutors collaborate with judges and the police constantly because that's just how the. Thing called the justice system works, but like, yeah, this is like a peripherally egregious example of them just setting up a case that they know that they just knew would fail. Exactly, and this is the same prosecutor who was ousted. In the aftermath of the the Laquan McDonald murder. Umm, you know, there were there were very large protests. Then there was a hashtag going on social media. Her name is Anita Alvarez. So the hashtag was by Anita. It was Anita Alvarez. Like I think people outside the city probably didn't don't know about much about this but like this. Anita Alvarez was like so hated that like like like like everyone in the city basically worked together to run her out. Like you had like you had like liberals and anarchist groups like working together like like every like everyone in this like all like the the the electoral and anti electoral lists. Like the people who. Just like have no politics basically whatsoever. Like it was. It was just sort of, it was just really incredible, like coalition because. She, like just the stuff we need Alvarez is doing, is just so egregious that everyone was able to find a way to put aside their differences on just the logic of get her out. Right, right. But you know to note again that was in the aftermath of the Laquan McDonald shooting and you know it, it wasn't, it didn't what happened with Rekia Boyd wasn't enough to spur those large protests and and this is not to like denigrate or demean the people who did come out and protest because it's still like like there were still protests, don't get me wrong, like people showed up for Rukia. But the difference in people showing up for Rukia and people showing up for? Black men being shot, you know, like that. That's something that black women have drawn attention to, you know? They're like, why don't you care when we get murdered? And it's just, it's become this sort of. You know, ongoing chance, like if you go to any Chicago racial justice protests, you will hear people say we do this for Laquan, we do this for rakia. Because it's just one of those names that for whatever reason, based on what was going on in the media at the time, just like didn't make its way outside of Chicago very much. And and we're seeing a similar sort of situation right now with what happened with the mere lock in Minneapolis, right, like. That was something where I think a lot of us thought, OK, wow, this. This is going to this is going to explode. You know, this is such just a horrible miscarriage of justice. Like, how could this happen? Surely there will be massive protests again, you know, something like that. And of course. You know, Minneapolis was out there. We had like some small actions here in Chicago, but. Didn't really catch fire, so to say. I mean, I think that there's always sort of cycles of this where you know, there's cycles where you get these massive protest cycles. You don't, but. You know, and I think this is one of the things with that you can look at with Rakiya boy too, where it's, it's. Like regardless of whether people are in the streets or not. The killing continues and right. Yeah. And I think that's just just sort of, that's an extremely. Grim thing to live with, but that that just, you know that that that's just what the police is, right and until you know until they are actually stopped you're just going to keep getting this cycle of. I don't even know if select, like selective outrage is the right word, but you get these cycles of people who get murdered and there's these protests and people who get murdered and get forgotten. And yeah, yeah. Yeah, and and it it really does seem to be kind of. You know, there's a lot of layers to it like like obviously the the misogyny against black women is part of it. And I think the media just, you know, is is a part of it too. Like, I mean I'm a part of the media and in a sense, but we're alternative media. So it's a little bit different. But you know, like there are there are choices made behind closed doors about what stories to follow and and amplify and. I will say, you know what I will say is I think. Because of what happened in 2020, I think there's a lot more scrutiny on Chicago police now. At least more mainstream scrutiny of them than there was. Back in 2012 when Rukia was murdered, yeah. And that's not to say that we're doing enough because we absolutely, absolutely are not. But I, I think 2020 did in some way, you know, push things just like a little bit further if that makes sense that you know there are. Some more liberal, mainstream types of people talking about the horrors of Chicago policing and and all of that. But you know, when it comes to Chicago police like I, I just. They're they're apparatus is so massive, like, not just from like the funding they get, but like their media and PR. You know, the the prosecutors and the judges, like you mentioned, are absolutely part of the policing apparatus. Like they're not separate, right? It's prosecutors are cops and we have a prosecutor for a mayor and she is a cop like like and and you know it. It was black youth who tried so hard to speak up about this before she was elected and and said like Lori Lightfoot is a cop and people didn't listen to them. And that's where we're at now, where we have this, this prosecutor for a mayor who's. Because of her background, like she can only view things through a punitive lens, like her answer to everything is just punishment. How can we, how can we punish people? Yeah, like one of the things she was trying to do recently was she wanted to do these like. Basically this measure where. They they called it like an anti gang funding thing, but it was basically just like if there's a group of people you can just take the cops and just take money from them. And it was like it was just an incredible thing. Like it was, it was, you know, part, part of what's going on here is that I've talked about this before, but like Lori Lightfoot is. You know, at the time I think people voted for her partially because they just didn't listen and the North siders were just like, oh, hey, look, it's Lori Lightfoot. But then, you know, like part of it was like she she she ran as like the anti machine candidate and it was like, no, she's just a cop. But like I think interesting is, you know, like she she's like incredibly widely hated like to to the point where like, you know, the Chicago City Council is like not notably a anti police body. But like even the City Council was like, you can't do this like and then they, they, they, you know they, they they actually blocked. I think if, if, if, if, if I'm, if I'm getting my, my, my facts right on this. Like I'm pretty sure they, they, they, they they blocked life with your postal because it was just like. You did, yeah. Yeah. And and that that's one of the things that like we've had a couple of like. Weird. Kind of like attempts to reign the CPD in, but they're not really happening because of like anti police sentiment. They're basically happening because the City Council's feuding with the mayor. Which is weird. Yeah. And and you know, I've seen it. Like I it's. It's she's such an God. I could. The the figure of Mayor Lori Lightfoot. I mean, it just makes no sense, right, because she's hated by people on the left, you know, who obviously are anti policing. She's also hated by the police, the police hater. I mean, it's incredible like she does. She doesn't. Yeah, she, I mean, if you go through any of the conservative, like cop blogs and Twitter accounts, you know, Chicago police are very active on on social media, right, which is, you know, it's whole a whole thing in of itself because these people, you know, they shouldn't be broadcasting the things on social media that they do, but. She's universally hated by everyone at this point. So you know. It's just been a really, it's been a really tough couple years for Chicago. Since the riots, especially because Chicago is the word has become so loaded in the national media, right? Like it's become this. This this racist boogeyman essentially for like what what could happen to your city if if the woke mobs successfully defund the police or, you know, whatever, which is completely at odds with reality because at no point have we defunded the police. Like their budget just keeps increasing. Like, what's what's their budget is like, is it? I wanna say it's 40% of the total budget, but I think that's low. It's something like that. I mean it's billions of dollars, like it's, yeah, we're pumping billions of dollars into this standing army that has that is basically occupying 40% of of Chicago's budget goes to the Police Department. Right. Right. And. You know, all of that money could obviously be spent. On other things and and we know like we know what reduces crime. I mean obviously we could get into like the category of what even is a crime, right? Like there are certainly lots of things that shouldn't be labeled crimes that are, but we know that communities with resources. Don't have significant violent crime problems like we know that. Lifting people out of poverty and and giving them opportunities and and homes and all of these things like we know that that reduces interpersonal harm. And instead we just keep looking at everything through this lens of punishment and how punitive we can be. Yeah, and it's been. I don't know, I. The Chicago Police Department is just it's just an absolute horror show. And it's a horror show. And and they're also like, it's a horror show not just because of how evil they are, but also because they're incompetent, right? So like, you've got them doing all of these really bad things and then they also, just like struggle to to cover up their crimes. And they're they're messing up, like along the way at every step. Yeah, and it's. Yeah, I don't know. They they they have the CD's, like. It's they they they have this kind of, you know, I mean, I don't know. I don't know how you exactly unique it is. But I I think going back to our sort of theory of like every Police Department has one thing that they're really good at it's the CBD has this unique combination of like incompetence torture and crime that they do that's like. I I think Sir, I think sets it apart from a lot of other yeah police departments. I think that's a good place to sort of jump off into the second, I guess, part of the Rekia Boyd story. Or really, this is, it seems to be the rikiya Boyd story. It's the story of Dante Servin, which is. His role in essentially exporting American policing and the horrors of. You know, the horrors of the American police system and the horrors of sort of American imperialism to other countries. Because it is it is not enough that the CPD murders people here. They've also got to do it other places. Right. And and so there was a there was a Chicago Reader piece written about this back in. February 2020. Servants not mentioned in it, but it was a really good story. I recommend people look it up because you know, some of this research is not like my original research, right? It's it stems from the research that people with the Invisible Institute did, but essentially. You know, there are Chicago police officers and there's one in particular. His name is Aaron Cunningham. He's the man who. Founded this Tactical Training institute. That. Go, as you know, they go abroad like they go to different countries and and it's private, privately funded, though they claim to be working with with the feds and there's a lot of like weird Gray area there where there's not a lot of oversight and nobody really knows, like. Are you getting federal money to do this or you just saying you are like like, what's the deal, right, but but Cunningham was essentially like a crooked cop who. Funded this tactical training institute so that they go overseas to under resourced countries with under resourced police departments and train them in how to be police. They train them in crowd control, they train them in like narcotics and drug investigations. They train them in like gang warfare. You know all of these things, right? And these are countries that have tremendous issues with. Like, you know, outright warfare going on between gangs and the existing police forces, right? So they're in desperate need of of of aid, of assistance, and and of course, like some of these conflicts that are going on stem from American imperialism to begin with, right? So it's like we caused the problems, then we're going to come in and, like, send a bunch of cops over who, like, you know, have extensive misconduct records in their in their home cities. And some of them have even, just, like murdered innocent women in the park. And we're going to have them train your guys into how to be cops. Yeah, and I. And yeah, and you know that that goes about as well as you would expect it to, which is one of the things that the reader piece talks about is, so one of these guys get brought in to train a bunch of cops in El Salvador after the El Salvadorian police do a bunch of horrible massacres. And then they they trained these cops and then the cops immediately turned around and also again do a bunch of horrible massacres. And it's it's this, it's this. You know, I mean I I, I, I, I, I, I I don't want to deemphasize the fact that like the like El Salvador for example like is a place that has its own like native right wing like it had like it has its own Salvadorian like right wing death squads right. And they they you know they backed by the CIA but like yeah and I I I don't want to like. Under my like under play, just how violent, just like the local reactionaries are. Because it's it's not it's like, it's, it's it's it's not like they they wouldn't also be death squads if the US wasn't there, but like the US, you know, and and the challice department sending people to train them is making them even worse. And it's. Yeah, yeah. And and every place has their own. Right wing reactionaries, right like we're seeing right now to bring to loop everything together and just bring us back to like, what's going on with Ukraine and Russia? That's related, you know, like both sides of this conflict have their own reactionary right wing forces, right? Yeah. And anywhere you go around the world, that's going to be a thing. And empires like the American Empire or the Russian Empire. Our, our or the El Salvador Empire, you know, whatever empire they're going to be looking for ways to take advantage of, of those forces. And achieve their own ends I I think that I what I think is important. Like one of the things I think is important about this politically is to understand that there is a like there there there is an incredible amount of international solidarity between cops, right? Mint Mobile offers premium wireless starting at just 15 bucks a month. And now for the plot twist. Nope, there isn't one. Mint Mobile just has premium wireless from 15 bucks a month. There's no trapping you into a two year contract. You're opening the bill to find all these nuts fees. 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This fall on revisionist history, is there anything that we haven't talked about, or I should have asked you or you'd like to add that seems relevant? You should have asked me why I'm missing fingers on my left hand. A story about sacrifice. I think his suffering drove him to try to alleviate suffering. And the shocking discovery I made where I faced the consequences of writing a book I thought would help people? Isn't that funny? It's not funny at all. It's depressing. Very depressing. Revisionist history is back with more. Listen to revisionist history on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. I've never seen less enthusiasm for a great idea in my life. Hey, it's Rick Schwartz, one of your hosts for San Diego Zoo's Amazing Wildlife podcast. In this special episode, we sit down with Doctor Jane Goodall to hear her inspiring thoughts on how we can create a better future for humans, animals and the environment. If we don't help them find ways of making a living without destroying the environment, we can't save chimps, forests or anything else. And that becomes very clear when you look at poverty around the world. If you're living in poverty, you can't afford to ask as we can. Did this product harm the environment? Was it cruel to animals like, was it factory farmed? Is it cheap because of unfair wages paid to people and so alleviating poverty? Is tremendously important. Listen to amazing wildlife on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. They have. Yeah. You know like you know I've seen I think there's a book called the Thin Blue Line International but it's it's yeah I mean that that's that's a thing like the the you see this basically everywhere, the cops. Like the the cops know which side they're on, and it's the side of the other cops. And I think that's something that that confuses a lot of people because you get things like, for example, like, like the Chinese police, right, like the Chinese police like go like, we're trained by, I think, I mean, you know, the, the, the, like the strange place in Hong Kong, for example, like that that police force like is still literally just a colonial British police force. They just, they didn't even like, they didn't even bring in new people. They just like promoted a new person who was a British colonial police officer and then made them the new head of the police and then, you know, and those. And and those cops are also trained by the trained by American cops are British cops. They're trained a lot by Israeli cops. This and this is the same thing you know the same thing with with with with like the the you know like this is sort of the same effect that gets you like Eric Prince like. You know being being like hired by the CCP to run stuff in Shenzhen, like it it's it's there's there's an incredible right wing sort of. Militarist cough alliance that go just, you know it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's it's a kind of international police solidarity that. Scrambles a lot of the sort of perceptions of what people think like like what, what, how how people try to think about the world because. Right, yeah. And you know, and like it. Like fundamentally like the, the, the, the the basis they have is the defensive property and the defensive sort of the, the, the, like the, the, the. I actually like the, the, the, the global white supremacist regime. And they all know, you know, when, when, when an American cop goes to El Salvador like they they know which side they're on. They're on the cops side and it's right and you know and and they they share, they, they share information, they share weapons. They share tactics. They share. Or just literally people. They share training, right? And. Yeah, and and of course, because again, it's the CPD they shared Dante Servin. Yeah, and so he he I, you know, apparently at some point very shortly after the murder of Rekia Boyd, it looks like, based on what I've seen on his social media and what I've pieced together from. From his employment history, it looks like he had begun working with one of these tactical training institutes right before the murder. And then he murdered Rekia Boyd. And I mean, I guess technically I'm not supposed to use the word murder, but, you know, I'm confused. Yeah, no, **** him. He murdered boys and so so he murdered Rekia Boyd and then everything happened was like. The going through courts. And he walked away without being charged or imprisoned. I mean, he was charged, but without being convicted or imprisoned. Then the police board you know recommended his firing, but he resigned 2 days before like he was supposed to have his hearing. So he still gets a pension. Pretty sure that's yeah. And so he gets yeah I don't I thought the confirm that but I'm pretty sure he gets the pension. So he resigns and then. At some point after he resigns, he starts posting to social media about his trips to Honduras. And you know, it's posting photos of like hanging out in the bar with with the cops down there and and kind of. Just all of that. And this is not like public information. Like it's he has like a LinkedIn page where he's like the things he's been doing. Like, like this is completely public. I don't know, like why nobody knows about it or has talked about it. But you know, that also I think just comes back to this murder kind of flying under the national radar a lot. And so, you know, we don't know what company or organization he's there with. It doesn't say he's with international Tactical Training Association, which is the the chicago-based group led by Aaron Cunningham and his wife. My guess would be it's that group because that's the big one, out of space, out of Chicago. But, you know, like, we can't. I can't prove it. It could be another. It could be another right wing tactical training group that's training death squads in El Salvador. Yeah. And that's the thing, right, is that this is not just. Happening here in Chicago. So, like, there are these tactical training groups all over and. There are a number of US based ones started by different police officers from different departments because it's kind of like a career path for them in a sense, because it's a thing they can do once they retire. You get, and it's a money maker, you hold these, these tactical training seminars and so a number of them are domestically based, right. Like they're not necessarily going overseas, but what they're doing is they're they're having these seminars and they're training other police officers. And like certain things like some of them might be like an afternoon session where you go and you learn about like, you know, firearm safety or something. Then there might be like larger ones where you go and you like stay and camp out for like 3 days and you practice like ambushing guerrilla gangs in the jungle or something like that. And then a lot of them are are based around gun safety and firearms training and some of those are open as a general public. It depends. Some of these are like only for other cops or law enforcement and you have to like show ID or military and you have to like prove. That you're affiliated with police and military. Some of them are open to the public and you just have to have like a firearms card. Oh boy, so. That's problematic. One reason? Because we found out in the aftermath of the January 6th capital riot. That a number of number of the capital rioters did attend, like firearms training classes, tactical training classes. In just various sort of locations. So. This is a way for officers who have left the force for whatever reason. To then have a captive audience and yeah, they're teaching them how to like. Shoot guns and, you know, follow them more like. Specific sort of things like that, but what kind of conversations are they having? Like, what kind of ideology is being espoused? What kind of other people are showing up to these meetings and what are they talking about? What groups are they recruiting for or what are their affiliations? Yeah. And and I think and I think that that's something that's important to think about and also to you know have have more generations of journalists look into because you know when when you look at these, I mean like, you know we we we we've had stories like this before, right. Like, I mean this is a lot of how for example like the the the the Taiwanese Special Forces for example, spent an enormous amount of partial partially just the Taiwanese army spent an enormous amount of time doing stuff very similar to this and. You know the the product of that was and this is a this is called Warrior during the 70s during this in the 80s some extent in the 60s. You know and and I mean the product of this is like arena the products of this is you know the the like the like one of the people they trained did the Mozote massacre like and that that that kind of stuff you you can trace these these influence networks and you could trace these sort of. I mean, a lot of this is, I mean, literally just funded by weird cults. But you can, you know, you can trace these different sort of paramilitary and intelligence influence networks. And what you see at the end of them is like a lot of the time it's just a bunch of fascists and it's a bunch, it's a bunch of fascists doing Coos. And you know like in in in some sense like, yeah, this is, this is a kind of like. You know, liberal democracy has this sort of. Problem, right. Which is that in order for liberal democracy to, you know, function as a liberal democracy, you have to have cops. And that means that you're you know, you, you, you are producing domestically and internationally a group of just ferocious, bloodthirsty right wing murderers and you're giving them, say authority and you're giving them all these training and weapons and. You know, the, the the product of that is they they do what they're trying to do, which is they kill people, they torture people. They train other people how to do this. And yeah you you get these these cascading series of effects that lead, you know a bunch of people taking these classes generally 6. They lead them to Coos all over the world. They leave their squads all over the world. This has been it could happen here. Join us tomorrow for part two of our interview with Raven. You can find us at Instagram and on Twitter at happened to your pod? Check out the cool zone for more of a podcast. And thank you for listening. Adoption of teens from foster care is a topic not enough people know about, and we are here to change that. I'm April Dinwoodie, host of the new podcast navigating adoption presented by adopt US Kids. Each episode brings you compelling, real life adoption stories told by the families that live them, with commentary from experts. Visit adoptuskids.org/podcast or subscribe to navigating adoption. Presented by adopt US kids, brought to you by the US Department of Health and Human Services, Administration for Children and Families and the AD Council. Hey there. I'm Scott rank, host of the podcast history unplugged. 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Welcome to it could happen. Here, a podcast about how much I, Christopher Wong, hate the police, and specifically the Chicago Police Department. And we are bringing you Part 2 of my interview with Chicago journalist Raven about more crimes of the Chicago Police Department, their international impact, and how the police weaponize race and class lines in order to preserve their power. Enjoy. You know, I I spent a lot of time just like. In like cop social media spaces, right? And of course it's like rotting my brain. And you know, it's it's honestly just really tough to deal with sometimes. But you know, one thing that we see like over and over again, if you look at the memes that they share and the the posts that they write on Facebook and all of these things, is it. They see the people as. Their enemy. Right, like they're they're trained the military, the militarization of of the police isn't just about. The equipment that they have and the money that they have, it's also about their psychology and how they they view themselves as like warriors fighting the bad guys. But. Because of the nature of policing, the bad guys are literally anyone who isn't complying with what they say. And usually this is like black people, you know, marginalized people, poor people. And then there's sort of this like, you see a lot of these like memes where they they talk about themselves as like. Sheep dogs protecting the sheep from the wool and yeah, and like the sheep are supposed to be like the innocent. Which typically, if you if you really go deep into it, it's like, in their minds that's like women and children who are like mostly white, right? Like they think they're protecting like white innocents from like. Bad guys and and there are layers to it, right? Because like obviously it doesn't always work out that way and you know, there are like. Poor white people in rural areas who deal with police repression, you know, there are like. Wealthy black people who get pulled over by the cops just because they're driving while black. Like, there are certainly like layers upon layers here depending on like class and and just everything but. At the end of the day, like. They're training themselves up to be a military fighting. The people. In invading their spaces, taking over. And. The psychology of it is just really, really dark too, because you have these. People who because because we're sending them into under resourced communities. Sort of after the fact, after traumas occurred, after there have been, there's been violence, there's been shootings. Everyone's poor, you know? Whatever. We're sending them into these places where there's just like. It's the most horrible things about poverty and about violence are happening. And that's all they're exposed to. So then they end up with PTSD, or all of these problems. You know, like the alcoholism, rape, and mestic violence rate. All of these things within the Chicago police force are extremely high. And all of this comes back to because we're treating everything as punishment and we're coming in after the fact. We're not actually treating these problems at the source, we're just sending people in to to manage the chaos after the fact. And then they end up traumatized. They end up. Enacting more crime and more violence from these communities and it just becomes a cycle. But no one can get out of. And then it and it comes back to just like defunding the police and and state priorities like where are we putting our resources? Because if we were putting them in the right place so many of these things wouldn't be happening in the 1st place. And I think what one other thing I think it's important to note that we talked about this on our our you know the episodes about the the the cartels we talked about this on our episodes about the other episodes about chocolate police, which is that the the other thing that happens is that the Chicago police just they you know they they. They they see the drug trade and they go, OK, we're just gonna get on it. And you know, and the, the, the, the, the sort of the combination of these people, these just incredibly violent armed people with like total impunity and enormous amount of money is that, you know, they. They they they they they become themselves and just you know they they they they they they become exactly the same thing that they're that they were you know nominally supposed to be fighting and that has all of these these downstream effects. If you talked about the the the the the the way that the way this militarize is basically everything right this militarize the police. This has to you know the violence of it has the effect of militarizing like militarizing everyone else militarized the non state actors and it just sort of it and it just keeps ratcheting up the level of violence. And as long as you keep throwing. The state at it and as long as the state just keeps essentially like. Going OK I just I OK we have a drug trade. I'll just get a cut of it. And as long as that keeps happening like all all of the stuff that the cops are you know nominally there to to deal with it's just going to keep escalating because this the state that like because like just because state violence is intensifying and making it worse. Right. Right and. It's just so, like, they're so ******* racist. Yeah, like, I just can't. I mean, like, I don't. We have to. We have to keep talking about that because it's just, like, so much of. Just like where, like where they get their information and how they exchange. Like if you look at these cop social networks and where they're getting their information and the kinds of things they're saying to each other about. Black people in Chicago are all so ridiculously wrong. Because they're just parroting these, like. Cop blogs that they read full of all kinds of just. Batshit ******* conspiracy theories about like our our black DA or prosecutor excuse me? Kim Fox being like a puppet of George Soros. They literally believe this and and it's echoed by people like Tucker Carlson, you know, and national media like anytime Chicago comes up. You will hear these kinds of just completely off the wall conspiracy theories about like Communist, BLM, Antifa, Soros funded Kim, Fox like ruining Chicago and and I'm not like defending him, Fox, I'm getting wrong. She still prosecutor, she's still putting people in jail, but she. You know, she was elected because she was, she was supposed to be this, like, big reformist. And. And all of that and and so she's become a target, and then she's also become a target for them because she's a black woman. So it's easy for them to to make her into a lightning rod of hate, basically. And you know, like, they just the the dehumanization of. Of black Chicagoans that you see in these in these Facebook posts that these people are writing and the things that they're tweeting like. It is violently, disturbingly racist and. All of that comes back to just how they view themselves as like an occupying army in these communities. Like they don't. View themselves as like cooperative partners. In helping these communities like it, it's no worse there to occupy. We're there to extract resources were there to like, you know, benefit off of this. Gang warfare if we can, you know, and and like you mentioned like. If you look at like the corruption and and the things that. That have gone on with that, I mean like, I mean that goes back to City Council, right? I mean we have, we have Alderman, we have. We've altered people who are. Essentially in bed with the cops looking for, looking out for them and you know like they're dedicated cop Alderman. I mean like all of our Chicago Alderman are Alder people excuse me, are. Democrats by name, but it's like, no, we have five or six other people who are Republicans. Like, they call themselves Democrats because they wouldn't be able to be elected in Chicago if they didn't. But they are absolutely like cop loving Republicans. You know, they just call themselves Democrats because they like support gay marriage or whatever. Was in Chicago and you like you can't run it so yeah like the like the the only time a Democrat has ever lost one of these elections was I the time a blanking on the name of the cult. And the the the time of Larouche accidentally won the primary. Lots of different way like that. That's basically it. Like, yeah, I mean it's, it's, it's it's, you know, this, this is a Democratic city, but, you know, the Democratic city just means incredibly right wing and police. Which. Right, right. Yeah. And and when you look at the history of policing in Chicago. You have to go back decades and decades and kind of look also to it like where a lot of these. Cops came from in the aftermath of like. The dissolution of like the official, like Mafia and like Al Capone and all that stuff. You had a lot of working class. Immigrants from like European communities, like the Polish Community, the Irish Community, the Italian Community, and all of these communities have their own like police associations here, like the Italian American Police Association, the Polish American Police Association. All of these things and and so like it becomes this. Being a cop. To go back to sort of like the international ties here, being a cop becomes this like identity for them and their family is like, a lot of people are cops because their dad was a cop, their grandpa was a cop, their cousins are cops, their brothers are cops. There's like a family honor sort of in like. Being a cop and and a lot of them show, you know, and that that that goes back to why they show so much solidarity too, with like cops. From other countries. Is. It's like the profession in and of itself is lionized. And. Then on top of that you have right now in Chicago like. Because of gentrification. Because of just like immigration patterns and the way communities have changed. We have these like traditionally Polish Italian. Communities that feel like they're being encroached upon. By mostly like Latinx communities. So we had, for example, like, you know this shooting, the murder of Anthony Alvarez up on up on the northwest side, the far northwest side of Chicago last year. And in the aftermath of that, we saw a lot of like. Tension between the provisional like Polish, Polish American community up there, and then the new wave of like. Latinx immigrants. And the problem is, a lot of the people in the Polish community up there have family and relatives who are cops. So we had like cops trashing the memorial, you know, to the to Anthony Alvarez. We had like Polish biker gangs, like riding by the rallies trying to like intimidate people. And it all comes back to like white supremacy and and just straight up racism, right? Like. There's another example of that with like the the. The the The the Columbus statue that was sent here by Mussolini that. Eventually, yeah. So one of those like one of the. I guess you call it the 2nd wave of the uprising in Chicago was a bunch of people like. Enormous numbers of people throwing things at cops who were attempting to defend the statue. And this was like a huge, like the Italian, like American, like the right wing. It got like extremely mad about this. And there was a lot of this, sort of. I know there's all this sort of tension between. Like between these, these different communities, yeah. And some of that comes back to, like also. The construction of of the interstates, right? So like in the. I don't know when they started building the highways down by UIC is like in the 50s or the 60s, right? You had this like traditional Italian American community down there by University of Illinois at Chicago and like on Taylor St. And then people built the highway. And it like ****** ** a bunch of **** you know, some people had to sell their homes, you know, some their traditional neighborhood was like destroyed all of these things. And then this university is built and that coincides with that. And so you end up getting a lot of like, old school racists Italians getting ****** at. The students and at the school and everything in the aftermath. And it's a really, really multicultural school. I don't know if you're familiar with UIC, but it's like. Yeah, so UIC has like one of the largest. Immigrant student population, student bodies like in like the country. It's just a very, very diverse school. I'm pretty sure white people are actually a minority if you look at like the demographics. Of just like how people identify in student surveys. You IC is the University of Illinois in Chicago. Yeah, it's one of the big universities in in the city. Yeah, just for the non Chicagoans, yeah not yeah. Different. There's a different one. University of Chicago, that's like, yeah, Hyde Park. There's one I went to. Yeah, cursed in many ways. Got their whole thing going on because their campus police force is one of the largest private police forces in the world. Yeah. And you know, I guess we talk about that a little bit because that's the sort of like it's kind of horrible binds where it's like, yeah so it's that that police force is one of the largest police forces in the world. It has shot students, it has shot people who are not students. It does a bunch of horrible things. But then you know sometimes you're there's there's this kind of trap, right because like one of one of the things that happens is like, well, OK, so you you get rid of the UCP. Right. And then then, you know, OK, so they're gonna bring the Chicago Police Department and it's like the Chicago Police Department are like. One of the few institutions in the world that's worse. Then like the regular you CPD and it's you know and and that was one of the things that was really inspiring in in 2020 was just, yeah the, the, the the way that they abolish the Chicago Police Department like movement was sort of like enfolded in this broader just in this broader attention. Just abolish the Chicago police in general. But it's this weird thing where it's like you have these, you have these occupation zones and it's like. That, that that that part of the South side and the other thing I think that people don't understand about. Your Chicago Police Department is that. They have an absolutely enormous range that they they patrol, right that that doesn't include that it's it goes way off campus like they have. They have an absolutely enormous range of things they can include and they they do things like, you know, they'll they'll just like, like, like lock down the entire campus and they'll just do this just happen because they'll be like chasing someone who like like one of the one of the times I was there someone like. They like, stolen something from like a video game store and the whole campus got locked down like the cops were screaming at everyone to stay in the buildings like. And they just like, you know, they had this, like enormous numbers of cops just sort of like swarmed through the entire, the entire campus for like an hour. And there's just like happens. I mean, there's cops everywhere. They just they do stuff like that and there's this whole. You know and and and, but this is one of those other things where you get these tensions because. So you Chicago, the University of Chicago also has like, it's not as large, but also has like a like. It also has like a pretty large international student, immigrant like population and there was this. There was, there was, there was a Chinese national student who got shot and who got shot in a robbery, right, last year. And that was a huge. I think that was last year. Yeah, that was. Yeah. It wasn't generally, it was last year, I think. Yeah. Yeah. And that turned into a huge thing where you had these sudden, you know, because we've had these anti police protests. But then suddenly there was this huge wing of like basically the right wing faculty, a bunch of just like absolutely reactionary, like extremely rich CCP scions and like this, this sort of like. Class of of the the the like like people like people in the right wing, law faculty like ECON. People who suddenly had this like giant thing that was like, well, it was, it was, it was a sort of microcosm of of of the the broader sort of like. Turn against the anti police movements by using crime and they had this whole thing we need to keep the campus safe and they were like oh, we need to give you the CPD the ability to lead to to go off of campus, which you know they already have. They like we need to give them more money. We need to have more cops everywhere. And it was just and it's it's just the sort of like. You you get this horrible, horrible sort of pendulum effect where, like, you get this violence and then. You know people like the the the like the the the rights response to that violence is just to create is you know just to send in more cops to create more violence and it just keeps escalating it keeps escalating and it's it's and you know and and there's there's a sort of dynamic of this right where. Rich students at the University of Chicago, and this is so some extent it this is it's mostly a class embrace thing, but it's not entirely but like people who go there just like have this, like incredible fear of literally everyone around them. It's like they they turn to many cops. Like, yeah, there are people who are screaming about how, like, just the red line is not safe at night. And I was like, I I have literally, like, I I have walked like 30 blocks back home at 2:00 in the morning and been completely fine. Like, you guys are just cowards. But, and, you know, you're cowards and extremely racist. But like, yeah, like all, all, all of these sort of factors blend together. And you, you get these, you get these coalitions of, of these, these right wing pro police people who want to just not, not just like, you know, not not just support the police, but want to continue to expand it. They can feel safe and it's like you're not. You're not even in danger. But they had, they have, they have the same sort of like this whole town is trying to kill us like racist complaint mentality and yeah sorry, this is, this is, this is, this has been me being upset about this because. I feel you and it's like it's and but it relates back to kind of like campus policing in general and kind of why it exists, which is that a lot of colleges, I mean not all of them, it depends on where you are, but like some colleges especially in like large urban areas you know are were built in the middle of like largely black communities, so. Yeah. And because the land was cheaper to buy at, you know, there are reasons why necessarily. Like, they're built in these places. And so the campus police departments function as just a way to, like, keep the students isolated from the community. Like it's making a community within a community. It's making this little enclave and then. Of course people are are then going to view anyone outside of that enclave with like racist suspicion, right? And if you have immigrant students who may or may not be wealthy, it's a pens on where they come from. But you UFC has like a lot of, as far as I'm aware, like wealthy international students. And they might be coming from countries where, like, there aren't any black people or there aren't very many. And just because they're they're coming from like this country doesn't necessarily mean that they like are left wing. So they they're coming into these communities, you know, with not a lot of experience, just sort of around people who look different from them. And so they're going to be of course looking to like these police figures then to quote protect them. But but to go back to it, it's like, OK, well, if if you are feeling unsafe on the train at night. For example, why? Why isn't the train safe? Like why are people? Using it as you know, shelter, why are people doing drugs on the train? Like why is there violence happening? And that just comes back to again, like we're not actually addressing the root problems by just adding more police. And I will say, like, I think I think again, like the other thing that's happening here is really just the University of Chicago. Like is, is is a place to which the world's elitist is, is, is, is transplanted and. You you can see this like very clearly along cause like yeah like there is the the the the the wealth gap between like between poor international students Richard National students is like it's it's the largest single wealth gap in like in in this in the entire university. It's it's unbelievable. And you know and you could you could just you can watch it playing down on class lines and it plays on other lines right where you have like like you know you like yeah you you have like you have both we have students from I don't know you have seen from China you seen from Vietnam and like one of them will be trans and. You know it it turned. Yeah, it's like, oh, hey look like. Yeah, like when you have like when you have a Chinese student, right, it's like, yeah, there, there, they the, the, the, the people who back home had have experienced depression in various ways are consistently like consistently. Like consistently anti policing consistently like significantly less bad about this stuff. It's it's it in my experience it's it's very much is just you have this sort of transplanted like you you have this sort of transplanted to leave from other countries to come to University of Chicago so they can you know study economics and go back to their own countries and like continue to like rob their own populations and those people are the ones who are doing this stuff and it's I don't know it's you see a lot of kind of like this. Like I I think really misguided, like anti racism. That's like, well OK we have to take the security concerns of of of these these of of Asian people seriously. It's like these are this is this is the Chinese ruling class. This is the this is like you don't need to take these people's concerns seriously. They are fanatic. They are ferocious right wingers who just read Hayek for the first time. Like you guys these these these are these are not the same people as the people who are suffering under the. Like right? Right. And and we saw that, we saw that too with like the big wave of of Stop Asian hate protests here last year where we had like this big rally down in Chinatown. Was like a huge, huge number. Like hundreds of people from the community came out and and you had a lot of younger people who very much had like. You know, defund the police kind of sentiments. But then you had, we had like police representatives speaking at the rally, yeah, about how they were going to to make like Chicago safer for Asian people. It's like this stuff, like, it makes me so angry, like CPD. Yeah. No, it was it was regular CPD like, I I'm Chinese they almost ******* killed me on campus like these people like they're not these they they're like the police don't keep us safe but like you know there's been this there's been this incredible weaponization of of the Asian American community. Like you see this you see this in China time there's there's been this like there's like trying to town is like this is different even in the last like like three or four years has turned into this just like like incredibly right wing. I mean it's it's not everyone, but like you see. There there are like there there's, there's, there's, there's there's a bench in in in Chicago in front of the library, right, that had they have these tables and the tables have an engraved plaque on them that says no loitering and that says we will call the police on you if you loiter, that this is outside of the library. Like it's yeah that there's they have this sort of like in criticism incredibly right wing like anti anti like anti like homeless people campaign that's happening and it's it's I don't know it's it's one of just the most depressing things I've seen here because you have you know you you have the Chamber of Commerce as a sort of like you know as the most powerful political force in a lot of these communities. And like those peoples are right wingers and they just they they they don't have the same interests as. Like the the rest of the age of of the Asian American community. And it it, you know and it gets you get this horrible horrible thing which is what was happening on the Chicago campus which is like essentially the right wing, like pitting the right wing like just just pitting the like basically basically like pitting Asians against black people. And it's right, horrible. And it you know and and. It just comes back to like who? Who is benefiting from this, like who when we when we have immigrant communities or non immigrant communities. You know, like being upset with other communities. What are the greater forces here that are like benefiting from that, sort of like infighting and it's always like the fascist cops. Who, who ultimately come out on top there because if they can keep? The people fighting amongst themselves or they can stoke prejudice and racism. Between the people you know, they can then come in and scoop up resources and when you look at like. A school like University of Chicago, they just have a massive, massive amount of money, right? Like the resources there are just unbelievable. Unbelievable. And and so of course you're going to have people in the community who are resentful of that. Who are upset about that because, like, they don't have affordable housing, they don't have good jobs, like they're trying to make a living and keep their kids safe. And here's this, like university. In the middle of their neighborhood with all of this money and wow, I'm so amazed. I'm just so happy that, like, somebody's doing construction right now outside my apartment. Sorry, thank you for this timing. I'm so glad about this. But but essentially like you know, you they the students, the students end up being a scapegoat for all of their like all the communities, like justified fears about what's going on, right? Yeah. Defied. They're justified in being upset that they don't have these resources, but it's not necessarily like the individual student. Yeah. And and they're there have been a lot of really good. So, like, right, right before one of the things was happening in in Hyde Park, like right before I got there was there was this huge campaign, basically there wasn't a level 1 trauma center like on the South side. And so, you know, if you get shot right, they have to, like, take you in a helicopter to the north side, to a hospital there and, you know, in that time like. There's a good chance to die. And there there had been one, but it got shut down because it wasn't making any money. And so, you know, there was this huge community student campaign to like to force the university to open one of these trauma centers. And so I think, and I think it's important that, like, we don't have to fight each other. Like that that's not a thing that had, you know, like, yeah. Like I think I think like that university. I I I don't think it should continue to exist. I think at the very least it should be like taken under Community control. But who? But like, yeah like you know, for for the people who are there and, you know, I think like for for the Asian Americans listening to this and for, for for people who are students like you. You do not have to be the weapon to the cops. You don't you can you can work together and. And and when you do that, you can win and you you can win. You can win like really incredibly tangible games for the Community and you can save people's lives. You know it also outside of campus, same deal with Chicago police, right? Like, we don't need to have the Eastern European communities fighting the Latino communities fighting the black communities, like we don't need to have these like. All of these communities. Just like fighting each other instead of like the actual oppressive forces at the top. Umm, but. You know, right now we're at like this kind of. Can I? I guess tipping point, I think, where either people start to show solidarity or we're ******. Like there are massive not to get like super existential with you, but like there are massive, massive forces right now, right wing forces trying to benefit off of all of this factionalization and as we see tanks. Rolling into Ukraine like. That's this is a global phenomenon, yeah. It's not just happening at home, it's happening everywhere and like, we don't have a lot of time left. To stop this. And to bring it back to this, like far right trucker, full trucker, convoy **** show that's about to happen and then we're all into roll into our capital like. I'm just struck by the timing of it all and I I'm certainly not going to be like. A conspiracy theorist about it and be like, well, Putin is has planned this all happening at the same time. But I do think that. Whether or not it's like planned to happen, at the same time, it's absolutely going to benefit these people that. You know this is happening right now in Ukraine and yeah it's it's it's the same thing with with the just horrific anti trans bills that the anti trans bill like not bills, but and anti trends. Government action, I guess, is the correct term in in what's happening in Texas right now. Yeah. It's, you know, like people, people draw comparisons to to the Third Reich and to Nazi Germany and them banning like, you know, homosexual dance parties and things like that, you know, like they didn't start out saying we want to kill all the Jews. Like it's not like it doesn't. You don't start that way. You make. You would do the smaller attacks first. You build up to it. You take power inch by inch until like nobody can stop you. Yeah, but I, I think, I think, you know, there's, there's, there, there's an important note. Share so which is that like it, it it, it's. It's very easy to sort of, especially in times like this to sort of just like. Be, be, be, be in a place where just it looks like history is just washing over you, right? That, you know, we're, we're we're bound by these sort of irresistible powers and forces. And that's not true. Like these, these, these, these, these kinds of fascist movements can be defeated. These kinds of military movements can be defeated. But they, they, they, they they can only be defeated when we actually take our place as the subjects of history, right? Like we, we we are the we are the people who, through our actions, create history. And, you know, when we also are the people who create the world we see around us. But, you know, and as David Gregory was incredibly fond of saying, right, it's like we are the people who create the world around us and that means that we can, it can be otherwise. And you know, when when we essentially like, when we when we reclaim our, you know, our, our status as subjects or status as human beings, our status as the people of which. History is composed of and we move, we can stop these things. Like there, there, there do not have to be another. Like there don't have to be more Nazis, they don't have to be more genocides, you don't have to be more worse. We can stop them. We just have to fight. Right. I don't disagree with that. I think. I think it's completely true. I guess I'm just. I don't know, maybe I'm like a doomer at this. I don't know. It's really hard right now to kind of see. I guess sort of mass resistance forming in the US specifically just because of the way the pandemic has wrecked us. And I feel like. People are I I mean, people are just checked out, right? Like they're exhausted, they're broke. I, you know, a million people have died because of, because of the government's just complete. Lack of adequate handling of COVID and and so I completely agree that like this isn't inevitable. Like we can stop this. At the same time. I just. I don't know what it's going to take for Americans like as an entity. To actually stand up and fight this and I'm not. Blaming individual people because it's like, all the reasons for people being exhausted and checked out are, like, also by design, right. Because of course, like, if we keep people exhausted and checked out, then the oligarchs at the top, like, can continue to, like, loot society. Yeah. I mean, I I think I'm sort of less sanguine on that just because, like, you know, I remember this is the same thing that, like everyone said right before the uprising. Like everyone was checked out. Everyone was sort of like, you know, like the the the pandemic had just started. Everyone there was just like general consensus that, like mass action was impossible. And then, you know, like two days later they burned down. They burned down a police station and like diluting the Miracle Mile. And you know, it's, it's like it's. These things, these things like, you know, like every, like the, the, the, the. The the the people who are in some sense the most in tune with, like what is happening. It'll often tend to be the people who are most shocked by when when these kinds of things just emerge seemingly out of nowhere. And so I don't know. I I think. I think. I, I I I, I, I think we can't know what exactly will set off. The next wave, but I but I I think it's a safe bet there will be another one. Because there always is, right? Yeah. Because we've never like, you know, we we we have yet to hit a point so bad that people stop fighting like ever in history. So. Oh, for sure, yeah. And and that's the long arc of history, too, is it's like. People have always been fighting for their liberation in some way and. If you look at the longer story, you know there might be. Very long periods of darkness and repression and collapse. And then. People emerge from that and. New societies emerge, new ways of thinking. All of that I and I think. Where we're at now, like at this moment. There are, certainly. Small ways that people can resist. And ways that we like, we have to focus on like our immediate communities too. You know, it's so easy to get to feel helpless when you, like you look at things on such a grand scale. Because of course, like, we can't all just, like, run into Ukraine right now and, like, stop Putin. Like, there's there's really not a lot we can do when it comes to like things like that. But we can like, take care of our friends. We can like make sure that the people immediately around us, like, have what they need. We can like check in on, like. You know, our unhoused neighbors we can like. You know, some people here in Chicago are are prepping to like, take in Ukrainian refugees, for example, right now and and that's like the sort of action that, like is definitely going to be needed. Umm. And. You know, like when you look at the story of, like something as horrible and and just like. Awful as the Holocaust. Like, of course there are all all these, like small stories of, like, people who, like, sheltered. People who are who are being sought out and you know. There were there were all these different kinds of resistance movements in Germany and in Poland. Umm. And it's not just about like, all the people that. That Hitler killed it is also about all the people that like were that people managed to save. You know and. It is also like, I don't know, we we in America especially, it's like we got to get away from the Hitler comparisons, which I know I just like just made. Like, it's it's, you know, like, don't get me wrong, like there's obviously like parallels and and it's important to be like, students of history and like understand what's going on and everything, but like. We don't. What we're seeing is like. We're going to see a kind of fascism that is unique to our era, right? Like. I don't know that Trump is going to come out and call for like outright genocide and like, you know, build, build death or like Ron DeSantis is going to get elected and like build death camps. Like it's going to look different than it has in the past, even if like some of the phenomenon are similar. So what we're looking at instead is like, especially with climate change, we're looking at a lot of. Controls over borders. And obviously some of that is like what's happening in Europe right now too. But you know, people are going to be looking to control resources like water. Oil land as we know that they're like running out. And so this, this sentiment against like immigrants especially, you know, that's something that. Is going to just keep getting worse and so I think it makes it harder for people to to, I guess recognize. That things are as bad as they were. If that makes sense, yeah. And. Alternately, like, it's just. Yeah, mass resistance is the only way out, right? Like, the people have to resist and we can't keep waiting for like, Joe Biden or or anyone to be our political savior. Yeah. I think, I, I think that's it. That's that's a pretty good note to end on. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for joining us. Do you have stuff that you want to plug? I'm not at the moment. No, I mean. I think. I guess our Twitter account, but that's about it. OK. Yeah. Well, this is this has been this has been another episode we could happen here. You can find us on Twitter and Instagram at happened here pod. You can find stuff at cool zone. We have a website. Go there. Stop asking me for sources. They're they're on the website. They get out, they get uploaded. Yeah. So, yeah. Thank thank you once again for joining us. Hey, we'll be back Monday with more episodes every week from now until the heat death of the universe. It could happen here as a production of cool zone media. For more podcasts and cool Zone Media, visit our website coolzonemedia.com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts you can find sources for. It could happen here, updated monthly at coolzonemedia.com/sources. Thanks for listening. Hey there, I'm Jess malida confetti here. 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