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Hey there, it's Ebony Monet, your co-host for the San Diego Zoo's Amazing Wildlife podcast. In this special episode, we're speaking with Doctor Jane Goodall about the fascinating journey that led to her impactful behavioral discoveries on chimpanzees. It wasn't until one of the chimpanzees began to lose his fear of me, but I began to really make discoveries that actually shook the scientific world. Life on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts hello, I'm Erica Kelly from the podcast Southern Fried True crime, and if you want to go from podcast fan to podcast host, do what I did and check out spreaker from iheart. I was working in accounting and hating it. Then after just 18 months of podcasting with Spreaker, I was able to quit my day job. Follow your podcasting dreams. Let's break your handle the hosting, creation, distribution, and monetization of your podcast. Go to spreaker.com. That's spreaker.com. Hey, it's Caroline Hobby hosted get real with Caroline Hobby interviewing the most fascinating people in Nashville and beyond. I talked to artists. I talked to the wives of artists. I talked to women entrepreneurs who have created businesses, who are moms, who juggle a million hats and do it all. Each episode will leave you inspired, feeling like you can accomplish your own dream and calling. Listen to new episodes of get Real with Caroline Hobby every Monday on the Nashville podcast. Network available on iHeartRadio App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcast what grows in the forest are imagination and our family bonds. The forest is closer than you think. Find a forest near you at discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the Ad Council. I'm Tanya Sam, host of the Money Moves podcast. Powered by Greenwood, This Daily Podcast will help give you the keys to the Kingdom of financial stability, wealth, and abundance with celebrity. That's like Rick Ross, Amanda Seales, Angela Yee, Roland Martin, JB smooth and Terrell Owens, TuneIn to learn how to turn liabilities into assets and make your money move. Subscribe to the Money Moves podcast powered by Greenman on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts and make sure you leave a review. When's the last time you took a timeout? I'm Eve Rodsky, author of the New York Times Bestseller Fair play and find your Unicorn space activist on the gender division of Labor attorney and family mediator. And I'm doctor Edina Rucar, a Harvard physician and medical correspondent with an expertise in the science of stress, resilience, mental health, and burnout. We're so excited to share our podcast, time out, a production of iheart podcasts, and Hello Sunshine, repealing back the layers around why society makes it so easy to guard. Spend time like it's diamonds and treat women's time like it's infinite, like sand. And so whether you're partnered with or without children, or in a career where you want more boundaries, this is the place for you, for people of all family structures. So take this time out with us to learn, get inspired, and most importantly, reclaim your time. Listen to time out a Fair Play podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey everybody, Robert Evans here and I wanted to let you know this is a compilation episode, so every episode of the week that just happened is here in one convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to listen to in a long stretch if you want. If you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, there's going to be nothing new here for you, but you can make your own decisions. You crack open a doctor pepper. You know it'll only make you more thirsty in the long run, but you need some liquid in your mouth and you're saving your remaining 15 gallons for a quick shower. EU haul is finally almost packed up. You may be able to make it down to San Francisco in time. Living in Redwood Valley has been nice the last few years. It's a beautiful place. But in August of 2022, the drought became too much. Late last year, California's new far right governor lifted all water restrictions on farmers. This sparked a new statewide race. Use what water was available before it ran out. Lake Mendocino was already low at the beginning of the year, and for the first time in your memory it is now completely empty. San Francisco isn't doing great either, but it's much better off than where you live. The Russian River watershed relies almost entirely on rainfall and as isolated from state and federal aqueducts. After the governor lifted water restrictions, new almond and pot farms started sucking up groundwater, and by the end of the summer they'd started pumping from the river to feed their thirsty crops. By mid-july, your town. Implemented a 25 gallon limit per person per day. That's about as much water as you go through during a 5 minute shower. The first thing you sacrificed was your garden, then you stopped flushing after you peed. These tweaks added up though, and without water, the lifestyle you'd love to just stopped being possible. Your brother in San Francisco offered to let you move in with him. You weren't a fan of the Big city, but at least you'd be able to shower again. And so you find yourself sipping an empty soda can and loading up your last few boxes into EU haul. You give your brother a quick. All saying you're all packed up and about to head out. He sounds worried and mentions something about his school letting new teachers go. Due to budget cuts, you can't really afford to think about that now. You just need to leave. Since you're all sweaty from loading EU haul the last few days you decide to hop into the shower one last time. You knew it wouldn't last long, but you still seemed surprised when the water turned off. After what felt like only two minutes, you quickly dry off and grab some clean clothes from your backpack and throw your damp towel into the passenger seat of the truck. You say goodbye to your home. 10 years and to your old succulent plants and begin the three hour drive down to San Francisco. Water scarcity is a problem you're probably already familiar with, especially if you live in the Southwest. California has dealt with particularly brutal droughts over the last 20 years, and the Golden State's water problems could be about to get much, much worse, because in just a few days California might find itself helmed by a far right governor with a near religious hatred of water conservation. Electoral politics are not generally a big focus on this show, but what's going on in the state of California. Could have serious implications for many people, including those outside the West Coast. The ongoing recall campaign against Governor Gavin Newsom started out in June of 2020 with Republican politicians and activists unhappy with Newsom's handling of the pandemic. Newsome's opposition to President Trump's crackdown on undocumented immigrants also played a role. This is actually the 5th recall attempt against Newsom since he took office in 2019, but it's the first one to gain traction. It's fueled in part by Newsome's own hypocrisy and hubris. On November 6th, 2020, the recall effort gained court approval for a signature gathering extension, and later that night Governor Newsom went to a birthday party for a Sacramento lobbyist and friend at French laundry, a pricey Napa Valley restaurant. Soon after, a photo surfaced of Newsom mingling Maskless at the packed restaurant. He faced heavy criticism and apologized, but the damage was done. Republicans latched on to this as an opportunity to finally push the recall effort through the recall petition, which had only 55,588. Signatures on the day of the dinner had nearly half a million. A month after the November 6th incident, California's recall process is probably the least democratic one in the United States. Gathering signatures to authorize a recall election is a pretty standard thing, but California has among the lowest signature requirements in states that allow for the recall of an official. Most states require that the recall campaign must gather signatures equal to 25% of the votes cast in the last election. California requires just 12% for executive officials. The LA Times notes quote. That might have been a high bar in 1911, when the population was scattered across the 770 mile length of the state. But is it too low in 2021, when petitions for ballot measures are gathered and masked by paid staff and parking lots? And that's not the only questionable aspect of California's recall process. On recall Election Day, voters will face two questions on the ballot. First, yes or no, on whether to recall Governor Gavin Newsom from office 2nd and this one is technically optional. If so, who among the 46 candidates do you want to take his place? The first question is decided by a simple majority, just like other ballot measures. But when it comes to the second question, the percentage requirements change. The replacement candidate doesn't need more than 50% to win, so if more than 50% of the voters say yes on the recall question. Governor Newsom must step down even if he has more overall support than any other individual challenger on the ballot. The replacement question is determined by who gets the most votes among the challengers on the ballot, which Newsen cannot be on. So 49.9% of the voters can back Mr Newsom, and he can still lose to someone who is supported by only, say, 20% of the electorate, or even a smaller fraction for other California elections, including special elections triggered by the death or resignation of an official. A candidate cannot win without the support of a majority of voters. If a candidate doesn't win over 50% outright, then the top 2 compete in a runoff election. Not the case for California's recall process. Organizers of the recall campaign submitted 2.1 million signatures by the March 17th filing deadline. One million, 719,900 signatures were ultimately determined to have been valid, which was enough to trigger the recall. The deadline for casting your vote is September 14th. If the recall succeeds, the new governor would be in office for the remainder of Mr Newsome's term through January. 2nd 2023 and that leaves a lot of time for executive ******* especially considering the new front runner. Far right radio talk show host and frequent Fox Guest Larry Elder has emerged as the likely candidate to replace Newsom in the event the recall goes through. Elder, who was 69, jumped into the race relatively late in the game during mid-july. At that time, it was more of a toss up between Republican candidates Kevin Falconer, a former San Diego Mayor, and businessman John Cox, who lost badly to Newsom in the 2018 gubernatorial election. Assemblyman Kevin Kiley and former athlete and media personality Caitlyn Jenner pulled less well. But as Larry Elder entered the race, he almost immediately became the front runner in polls and raised lots of money from small donors. And the three weeks after he announced his campaign, he raised nearly four and a half, $1,000,000, according to fundraising disclosures. That's more than every other Republican challenger, Sands multimillionaire businessman John Cox, who's largely funding his own campaign. Elder has been a central figure head of the right wing radio talk show scene since the 90s, but has always been hesitant to run for public office, deeming the state of California ungovernable. Due to its liberal supermajority. But after talking with his friend and mentor Dennis Prager of the Neo Fascist propaganda outlet Prager U, he figured it might be worth a shot and has expressed desire to use the emergency powers of the governor to push the state rightwards. Elder was born in Los Angeles, but moved to Cleveland to attend law school and opened his own firm in 1980. Elder's career began as a bit of an accident. He'd been invited on a Cleveland station as a guest. He did so well on air that when the regular host went on vacation the following week. The program director asked Elder to fill in. Soon enough, Elder had his own weekly time slot on the Cleveland station. In the early 90s, a guest host from Los Angeles, Dennis Prager, visited Cleveland. Elder quickly impressed Prager with his on air wit and talent, coupled with the uniqueness of a black man openly expressing extreme conservative views. Prager persuaded his home station, KABC in Los Angeles to give elder a shot. Quoting the LA Times, Elder returned to his hometown in 1994, two years after the civil unrest following the acquittal of the officers who beat Rodney King and, in the midst of the OJ Simpson murder case, the program director at rival. AFI David G Hall felt KBC made a creative move bringing on this guy from South Central who swung the other way on race. Almost from the beginning, the self-proclaimed sage from South Central whipped up a furor. He mixed sound bites from Representative Maxine Waters with a recording of a barking dog. He said blacks exaggerate the significance of racism, while women did the same in regards to sexism. For nearly four years, Elder has slapped many members of his own race in the face on radio, belittling them as winners or losers, holding himself up as a model of African American excellence. He's become a darling of white listeners who seem to almost gush when they telephone him on K ABC. Talk radio. They are astonished to find a black man who not only isn't going to chastise them, but who also often agreed with them. A black man who declared that race was no longer a significant factor in American Society. Elder also doesn't believe that racial profiling exists. This is despite telling the Times editorial board that police pulled him over between 75 and 100 times the first year he had his driver's license. Elders. Regressive, provocative content angered many Angelenos, and black citizens of California LED a boycott of advertisers on the show. It worked, and by the late 90s the show had begun losing millions in AD revenue. But thanks to syndication, changing networks, podcasts, and TV appearances, Elder has been able to remain a central figure of the right. Content sphere, he most recently starred in a video series for Far right propaganda organization and literal cult the Epoch Times. According to elders campaign, the central recall issues he is focusing on are rampant crime, rising homelessness, out of control, costs of living, water shortages, disastrous wildfires, rolling brownouts, and repressive COVID restrictions. For this show, we'll be focusing on the last three as they relate to the rapidly shifting and hostile climate. For the past 30 years, Elder has been a classic conservative climate. Higher he had a whole section of his website devoted to debunking the Gore bull warming myth. Like Al Gore ******** warming myth. Yeah, it's a bad pun. In a CNN interview prior to the 2008 election, Elder called Global Warming a false myth while disparaging and making fun of both John McCain and George W Bush for discussing global warming as a serious issue. However, more recently, Elder has shifted his rhetoric around the climate. In an interview last month, he expressed belief that some warming is taking place, but by using old soft. Kyle's talking points. Climate is always changing. Of course the climate is changing. The question is, what do we do about it? Do we deal with the effects of it? Or do we force feed a renewables based economy down the throats of people, jacking up the price of energy, a disproportionate pain for poor people. But of course there's climate change and the climate is getting warmer and maybe about a degree or so in the last several years and it will likely continue, he adds. What I don't believe in is climate change alarmism. He also said that he was not sure whether climate change is making wildfires worse. Quote fires have gotten worse because the failure of this governor to engage in sensible. Fire suppression. Elder also blames California's rising housing costs on environmental extremists that Jack up the cost of housing so that developers have to wait and wait and get sued over and over again so that finally, when the home is built, it's way more expensive than otherwise it would be without these environmental rules and regulations. Despite the slight backpedaling on climate for better media optics, his potential policies on the topic are just as horrendous as one might assume. In a recent video news conference, Elder declared that he would end the war on oil and gas and the attack on the logging industry while also reducing. Regulation on fracking and stopping California's growing efforts to expand wind and solar power, which he calls not very efficient. Elder did not mention climate change during his news conference. Water scarcity will be an increasingly severe concern for California in the coming years. Drought is already a major political talking point among voters and politicians, and it creates another rift between city folk and rural farmers. Farmers are having a harder time growing crops and feel threatened by water rationing. They're frustrated by the thought that the Democrats running cities will always prioritize pumping extra water into population dense areas. Meanwhile, people in cities are concerned they will be forced to cut back on personal water use as almond farmers suck up tons of water to feed their droops. Just building more dams and water catchment systems you're aquifers may seem like a solution, and if done properties. Some of those things might help, but they can't make up for a lack of rainfall and snowmelt. Relying on river water has its own problems. Pulling too much from freshwater that flows through rivers allows for extra salt water to intrude from the Bay and ocean salinity in the water negatively impacts local ecosystems and dirties what is supposed to be a freshwater source. Drought is simultaneously pushing migratory fish species like Chinook salmon and steelhead trout. Closer to the brink of extinction, large numbers of fish are dying off because the rivers they rely on as spawning habitats are too warm or too low. Anxiety around water, droughts and crops is among the issues driving some people to vote yes on the recall. A poll conducted last July by the Public Policy Institute of California found that residents cited drought and water supply as their top environmental concern, with about 25% calling it their chief concern, which makes it poll well above the related problems of wildfires air pollution. And climate change. Republican politicians have been using anxiety around drought to drum up support for the recall by blaming the current situation on Newsom. The original recall petition against Newsom from early in 2020 warned that the governor quote seeks to impose additional burdens on our state, including rationing our water use. Last April, Governor Newsom did declare a drought emergency in two Northwest California counties. The order allowed state officials to restrict the amount of water diverted from the Russian River and authorized the relocation of fish. Granted, and drying puddles, the local county government asked residents to use no more than 50 gallons per day per person. But Newsom himself hasn't mandated water rationing for individual consumers, though he has asked Californians to voluntarily cut consumption by 15%. And as suggested that statewide restrictions could be on the table if conditions worsen heading into the fall. Newsom in the Department of Water Resources as a whole do have ideas in mind for tackling this issue. Last year, Newsom authorized an $11 billion water infrastructure. Project building a single 30 mile tunnel under the Sacramento San Joaquin River Delta. The project, which has been discussed for years, is being pushed forward in hopes that it will protect the Delta's existing wetland ecosystem and supply enough fresh, clean water to be diverted S for the rest of the state. But the tunnel concept has faced opposition both locally and from conservation minded folks. Some residents in the Delta region see it as just a water grab to meet the demands of Southern California and the agriculture industry, while the needs of those up north are being ignored. Ecologically focused critics say it could still increase salinity in the delta and result in notable harm for the ecosystem. Newsom has more recently discussed other action and legislation to help mitigate the continued drought, quoting the San Francisco Chronicle. In July, the governor signed a state budget that includes $5.1 billion / 4 years for new water infrastructure and drought preparation projects, including money to repair delivery canals, help farmers irrigate crops more efficiently, and start water recycling projects. Still, Newsom's recent actions have done little to quell. Anger among many farmers who say the state's failure to plan for another major drought just a few years after it exited the last one has put them on the brink of ruin. Ernest Buddy Mendez, a lifelong farmer in Fresno County and Republican County supervisor, said he was forced to let hundreds of acres where he used to grow cotton and wheat dry up this year after his allotment of river water was slashed to 0. He's relying on groundwater pumped from wells to keep his Grove of almond trees alive. Mendez said he hasn't decided whom to support as a replacement candidate in the recall, just that he will vote. Hell yeah, to remove Newsom. Let's face it, Newsom Dam is a four letter word. Mendez said. We haven't done anything in 20 years about building storage. California already does have one of the most extensive dam systems in the country, with nearly 1500 reservoirs. Building new on river dams would cost billions of dollars if such efforts even survive legal challenges, which are all but guaranteed amid the struggle to save endangered fish species, there are not many areas left that would make sense or be sustainable to build a new large reservoir. One other more. Cost effective solution could be to store more water collected during wet years and underground aquifers. One of the solutions to this problem is the same as the solution to a number of other climate related problems, which is that we simply have to cut the amount of resources we're consuming. Whether that means reducing our energy use or cutting down on wasteful water use. You can only build so many dams. The trend of California farmers growing thirstier crops has made an existing problem much worse. Today the state produces three times as many acres of almonds as it did 25 years ago with California. Most likely, entering a third straight year of disappointing rainfall and snowmelt, anxiety around drought and increased severity of water restrictions won't get any better. And if the La Nina weather pattern hits the West Coast as it's poised to, that would mean the western US will have a drier and hotter winter than average. Last August, water regulators made an unprecedented move to begin cracking down on water use in the sprawling Sacramento River and San Joaquin River watersheds, ordering 4500 farmers, water districts and other land owners, including the City of San Francisco. They start drawing water from the basins of the river or face penalties of up to $10,000 a day. The city has enough water in its reservoirs to meet demand for at least a couple of years, and stored water is not affected by the state restrictions. Water agencies also can seek an exemption from curtailments of human health or safety or compromised. This does hit rural areas in agriculture the hardest because most cities have alternative supplies and stored water to tap into. Looking to attract voters, Larry Elder and other Republican challengers to Newsom have made it a recurring. Point to say that farmers should not have to endure such cuts, but they don't really give any perspective solutions to prevent rationing when water levels at reserve. In the 1980s and 90s, a psychopath terrorized the country of Belgium. A serial killer and kidnapper was abducting children in the bright light of day. His unspeakable crimes and the incompetence or unwillingness of the police to stop him brought the entire country of Belgium to the brink of revolution. From Tenderfoot TV in iHeartRadio this is la Monstra. The story of abomination and conspiracy that led to the demise of the entire institution of Belgian federal police and rattled the foundations of its government. The story about the man who simply become known as La Monstre. Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This fall on revisionist history, there anything that we haven't talked about or I should have asked you or you'd like to add that seems relevant? You should have asked me why I'm missing fingers on my left hand. A story about sacrifice. I think his suffering drove him to try to alleviate suffering. And the shocking discovery I made where I faced the consequences of writing a book I thought would help people? Isn't that funny? That's not funny at all. It's depressing. Very depressing. Religious history is back with more. Listen to revisionist history on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. I've never seen less enthusiasm for a great idea in my life. This is a story about land and oil, about family, about wealth. About the stories we passed down and the stories we don't. More than 100 years ago, the Osage nation negotiated something unique that brought a lot of money to its people. For the past year, I've been trying to figure out who ended up with that wealth and how they got it. The truth has got to come out, you know, and it's it's not always pretty and it's not always flattering. This is in trust, an investigative podcast about a massive transfer of wealth out of Osage hands and into white ones, and how the Osage nation is fighting to get it back. In trust is a new series from Bloomberg and Iheart Media reported and hosted by me, Rachel Adams, heard listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Far as lakes and wells are all plummeting, Larry Elder said drought is not inevitable and said he supports building more reservoirs and dams to store runoff. But he has also voiced support for permitting desalinization projects. Desalinization devastates ocean life, costs much more than other alternatives, and uses tons of energy also. Soon it will be made obsolete by increasing focus on water recycling, explaining desalinization quickly, ocean water is collected and run through pipes to remove the largest solids, and then pumped through reverse osmosis filters to remove salt, while fish and other creatures die upon being sucked in or just from the force of the water flow. In a report studying a desalinization plant in the early 2000s, it was found that on average over A5 year. 19.4 billion larva were caught up at intakes and about 2.7 million fish, along with marine mammals and sea turtles, were killed by intake equipment. For every gallon of drinking water, desalinization leaves another gallon of salty brine behind the plants. Then just mix that with two parts ocean water before pumping it back into the ocean. These measures can negatively impact the environment for this generation and generations to come. This type of resource, extractive thinking, reflects how we got into the problem in the 1st place, battling over water allotments. Will only get us so far when dealing with lackluster rainfall. What can help is permaculture programs to help farmers learn ways to irrigate more effectively and cultivate healthier soils that retain water. Moving away from water heavy crops like almonds and towards more sustainable and moisture efficient crops must also be done if we want to stave off the worst effects. Putting Larry Elder in office won't make it rain, but it will put the state at least another year further behind on taking the kind of action necessary to ensure California remains habitable. What's up guys? I'm Rashad Balao and I am Troy Millings and we are the host of the earn your Leisure podcast where we break down business models and examine the latest trends in finance. We hold court and have exclusive interviews with some of the biggest names in business, sport and entertainment from DJ Khaled to Mark Cuban, Rick Ross and Shaquille O'Neal. I mean, our alumni list is expansive. Listen in as our guests reveal their business models, hardships and triumphs in their respective fields. The knowledge is in death and the questions are always delivered. From your standpoint, we want to know what you want to know. We talked to the legends of business, sports and entertainment about how they got their start and most importantly how they make their money earning. Alicia is a college business class mixed with pop culture. Want to learn about the real estate game? Unclear is how the stock market works. We got you start and most importantly how they make their money earn your leisure. Is a college business class mixed with pop culture. Want to learn about the real estate game? Unclear. Is how the stock market works. We got you interested in starting a trucking company or a vending machine business? Not really sure. How how? Taxes or credit work we got it all covered. The earn your Leisure podcast is available now. Listen to earn your leisure on the Black Affect Podcast network, iHeartRadio App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. After 30 years, it's time to return to the halls of W Beverly High and hang out at the Peach Pit on the podcast 9021 OMG. Join Jennie Garth and Tori Spelling for a rewatch of the hit series Beverly Hills 90210. From the very beginning we get to tell the fans all of the behind the scenes stories to actually happen so they know what happened on camera, obviously, but we can tell them all the good stuff that happened off camera. Get all the juicy details of every episode that you've been wondering about for decades. As 90210 Super fan and radio host, Cincinnati sits in with Jenny and Tori to reminisce, reflect, and relive each moment. From Brandon and Kelly's first kiss to shouting Donna Martin graduates, you have an amazing memory. You remember everything about the entire 10 years that we filmed that show, and you remember absolutely nothing of the 10 years that we filmed that show. Listen to 9021 OMG on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, lethal listeners. Tig. Here. Last season on Lethal lit, you might remember I came to Hollow falls on a mission, clearing my Aunt Beth's name and making sure justice was finally served. But I hadn't counted on a rash of new murders tearing apart the town. My mission put myself and my friends in danger, though it wasn't all bad. I'm going to be real with you, tig. I like you, but now all signs point to a new serial killer in Hollow Falls. If this game is just starting, you better believe I'm going to win. I'm Tig Torres and this is lethal lit. Catch up on season one of the hit Murder Mystery podcast, Lethal Lit A tag, Torres mystery out now and then TuneIn for all new thrills in Season 2, dropping weekly starting February 9. Subscribe now to never miss an episode. Listen to lethal lit on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The last few months in the San Francisco have been honestly better than you expected. Still hot and dry, but now that you're in fall, the heat has become manageable. In the Bay Area at least. Staying with your brother has been actually really nice. The first few showers felt like luxury. Recently, he's had less of a good time. He found out he was getting laid off right before the school year started. He told me over 15,000 other teachers have been fired as a part of the governor's new reform schools. Program. The teachers union is fighting it, but your brother isn't too optimistic regarding the outcome. He's been looking for new work, and meanwhile you've gotten a ****** retail job to help with bills while you decide on what hospitals you want to apply to. You don't really miss your old EMS job in Redwood Valley. When you finally do get back into medical care, you really prefer something in a hospital or clinic setting as opposed to the extra stress inherent in emergency services. The one chance you have had to use your medical skills since moving was during the fires last September and October. Back up north. They got really bad and hundreds of thousands of people evacuated down South. Some old activist friends of yours from college made their own fire relief slash mutual aid set up to give out clothes and food and to help people displaced by the fires. You haven't talked much with your old college buddies in the past few years, but upon hearing of the relief effort, you happily offered up your skills to help with minor medical issues in a small medic tent they set up. It was the first time you've helped with anything related to protests organizing since you moved up to Redwood Valley 10 years ago. It was oddly refreshing. Politics hasn't been a major part of your life since college, but Speaking of politics, midterms are finally this month. The past year has felt like it's stretched on forever. Your brother and his Union buddies have been doing canvassing for a few progressive City Council candidates that might actually get a shot at getting in. You haven't had time to adjust to San Francisco's local political scene, and honestly, you're not sure if you really care to. You have been keeping half an eye on the big state electoral races though, which feels kind of weird. You know, there's no way the Republican governor will get reelected. Not here in California. One thing that has gotten you worried is the weekly anti election fraud rallies that have been happening in LA ever since October. The governor, surrounded by state troopers, has made it down himself a few times to drum up support from his fan base. And after the rallies, roving gangs of far right extremists have gone around randomly attacking homeless. Encampments. You heard that just last week, after a Sunday rally, three people had to be rushed to the emergency room. It's now just a week before Election Day. You're on the bus home from your job at the vintage clothing store when you receive a message on signal from one of your old college mutual aid buddies you met up with again during the fire relief effort. The message reads. Hey, are you free on Election Day? You hadn't really thought about the day itself. You respond. Maybe nothing really planned yet. Your friend replies with a fat wall of text. My affinity group and I are heading down to LA on Tuesday. There's a big stop this steel type rally happening, and where it is, lots of proud boys are going to show up. Comrades in LA have put out some calls for support, so my crew is going to go down and probably bring some medical stuff if you want to come. We got an extra seat in the van. The thought of driving down to Los Angeles to deal with proud boys doesn't excite you, especially on an already stressful day. You think about it for a few minutes. Images of the people maimed during and after the recent rallies floods your mind. Your buddies know more about organizing and protests than you do, but you have more medical training. You decide you'll do it, you reply. I'll come with and pack some extra eye facts and tourniquets. Among the issues Republican recall challengers have raised to attack Newsom, Forest mismanagement has loomed large. Among the recent complaints. This type of thing Harkins back to Trump's old habit of blaming the governor and not raking enough leaves for California's fiery plight. On a larger scale, this can be seen as part of an effort to push all the blame of wildfires off of oil, gas, and our transformation of the climate and on to a simple lack of fire prevention. Measures this narrative, of course, makes the fossil fuel industry more happy. The thing is, all of these things are contributing factors for California's wildfire problem. Climate change caused hotter temperatures, and droughts makes fires easier to catch and spread, and inadequate force management plus above ground power lines do the same. Just because there are bad faith attacks on Newsom doesn't mean there aren't actual failures. He's made us governor, especially in relation to the forests. An investigation from CAP Radio and California MPR published last June found out Newsom had grossly misrepresented and flat out lied about his promises of new wildfire prevention efforts. Elements of the piece were of course used by Larry Elder and the right to push for support of the recall, but the article itself is a very fine piece of journalism. Back when Newsom first took office in January of 2019, one of the first things he did was sign an executive order overhauling how California handles wildfire prevention and forest management. The measures included removal of hazardous dead trees, vegetation clearing, creation of fuel breaks and community defensible spaces, and creation of ingress and egress corridors. In January 2020, a year after Newsome's initial announcement, the governor's office claimed in a press release that under the executive orders. Priority projects 90,000 acres got treated with these flare prevention measures. But according to data obtained by CAP Radio and NPR, the actual number of acres treated by these priority projects was only 11,399, just 13% of the number Newsom boasted about quoting the piece by CAP Radio. Quote data shows Cal fires fuel reduction output dropped by half in 2020 to levels below Governor Jerry Brown's final year in office. At the same time, Newsom slashed roughly $150 million from Cal fires wildfire prevention budget. In 2024, point 3,000,000 acres burned, the most in California's recorded history. That was more than double the previous record, set in 2018, when the campfire destroyed the town of Paradise, ultimately killing 85 people. A decade ago, Cal Fire was trading a poultry 17,000 acres annually. That number has steadily climbed, though Newsom misrepresented. The number of acres treated in his priority projects the overall amount of wildfire mitigation work carried out by Cal Fire spiked in his first year of office to 64,000 acres. But in 2020, fuel reduction totals plum and reduction efforts in 2019, the year with the largest number of acres treated in recent history, the state budget allotted for $355,000,000 for wildfire prevention and resource management. But after the COVID-19 pandemic hit California in early 2020, Newsom cut the budget by 40%, down to 203 million. On top of the budget cuts, the fires themselves made prevention work more challenging. 2020's wildfire season started out early, which resulted in less time to do prescribed burns and Thinnings because the same teams that are tasked with prevention and fuel reduction often also service firefighters once the fires break out. As of May 2021, Cal Fire has treated over 23,000 acres throughout the year. This puts California on a trajectory better than last year's total, but not as high as the 60,000 plus acres treated in 2019. Newsom has been trying to make up for his missteps and gross exaggerations. Quoting the CAP radio report again quote Newsom is trying to play catch up with the state. Enjoying an unexpected surplus, Newsom proposed 2 billion in spending on wildfires and emergency preparedness, with 1.2 billion going towards wildfire resiliency in the upcoming budget. Experts say the increase in prevention spending could help the state get closer to a less dangerous wildfire season over time. But they also expressed concern over whether the state will sustain that commitment for years to come. UN quote. Revelations about Newsoms and Cal fires, lies and lacklustre forest management were quickly jumped on by Larry Elder and other Republican challengers as an easy way to attack Newsom and to move the conversation about wildfires away from climate change. Elder has said he has quote UN quote no idea why more prevention and reduction measures aren't being done. And when he becomes governor he'll be, quote, implementing these common sense to call kinds of plans so that we can reduce the severity of these fires, UN quote. Elder has given no concrete plans on what measures he'll be shooting to implement, or any indication on how much money will be directed to prevent or fight fires on another budgets. Elder has said that the more recent spending on wind and solar power has left, quote, less money for removing trees and putting power lines underground, the kind of things that would make these fires less intense, UN quote. And he promises to drastically cut spending on renewables while also investing more in oil and gas. To be clear, Newsom's upcoming budget contains billions for both fire prevention slash fuel reduction and renewable energy such as wind and solar. Whoever ends up governing California is not only in charge of local politics like a governors in other states. What happens in California affects people across the country and even globally, whether that's wildfire smoke traveling across continents or changes to supply chains and industry rippling across the world. California is, after all, the world's fifth largest economy. There are also political ramifications that could affect the state as a whole if elder gets in office. The Senate is currently a 5050 split between Republicans and Democrats, with Vice President Kamala Harris getting the tie breaking vote. One of California senators is 88 year old Dianne Feinstein, the oldest active senator. If she dies in office or has to step down due to medical reasons before her term is over, the Governor of California gets to appoint her replacement. If Elder appoints Republican, then the Senate will be back under GOP control and given his connections to the far right media sphere, the list of potentials that elder could appoint is frightening. This is by no means inevitable, even if Elder gets into office. If he does, Feinstein does have the brief opportunity to step down and put a replacement in before the new governor is sworn into office. However, Feinstein has said she has no plans of doing so. Reports of her declining health have become only more common in recent years, but like many politicians and judges, she is not keen on stepping aside, even to possibly help prevent a disastrous outcome. Changes in the Senate are not required for horrible outcomes in the wake of an even brief elder governorship. His anti VAX sentiments and plan to open up the state and remove basically all COVID restrictions will result in hospitals being pushed to Max capacity. Elder has said he has plans to appoint education officials similar to former Secretary Betsy DeVos and judicial appointees like conservative Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas. Elder has stated his intention of declaring states of emergency and using executive orders to push through otherwise unpopular legislation. He has discussed plans to declare an education emergency in order to fire upwards of 21,000 quote UN quote bad teachers. Elder blames teacher unions for quote protecting bad teachers, and in a recent interview stated quote, someone told me that between 5% and 7% of public school teachers need to be fired and emergency declaration would give the power to get rid of bad teachers faster than the system allows. Once you did that, automatically education would improve overnight, UN quote. Now, Elder has not specified who had advised him on teacher terminations or how he plans to weed out the so-called bad teachers out of the 300,000 in the school system. He's also touted plans to declare a homeless emergency, but his solutions have nothing to do with actually helping homeless people. His homeless emergency declaration would allow him to suspend the California Environmental Quality Act, the law requiring environmental review of building projects, elders stated. Goal. Is to unleash developers and contractors without environmental regulation, which he claims quote trees, developers and contractors like criminals UN quote, and allows building projects to get suspended indefinitely, ultimately raising the cost of housing in his opinion. One of the more frightening aspects of Larry Elder is his close ties to many far right propagandists. He's done work for Prager U epic times and has been a guest on Fox News at least 220 times in the past five years. In the last episode we discussed his friendship with Dennis Prager. Also, Dave Rubin just recently campaigned for elder at a recent rally and a month and 1/2 ago Elder was on Candace Owens show discussing how the descendants of slave owners deserve reparations. We're having their property, IE black people, stolen from them when the slaves were freed. Those are his words, not mine. What's probably most concerning is elders connection to Stephen Miller. In fact, we wouldn't have Stephen Miller if it were not for Larry Elder. Back in the late 90s, a conservative student from Santa Monica High School would call in to Larry Elder's show to rant about his school's liberal culture. Reportedly, the student would go around demanding staff and fellow students regularly recite the Pledge of Allegiance. He railed against condom giveaways and called Spanish language announcements quote a crutch preventing Spanish speakers from standing on their own, UN quote young Californians calling into elders show and agreeing with them. It wasn't very common, and elder aided up. He loved talking with the students so much that he let the kid on basically anytime he wanted a platform to rant and rave, you know where this is going. That student was Stephen Miller. According to Miller, he appeared on elders show 69 times throughout his time in high school and university and calls Elder quote the One True Guide I've always had. UN quote. Miller's appearances on elders radio show made him a recognizable figure in the larger conservative media world, helping him connect with Steve Bannon and eventually President Trump. By extension, Elder was Stephen Miller's on ramp to the White House. In an e-mail to Miller in 2016, Elder told him, quote, I hope to live to see the day when you become president. When Media has brought up his friendship with Stephen Miller, Elder tries very quickly to change the subject. When pushed on the topic in a recent interview, Elder shot back with quote why would you bring up Stephen Miller? I'm just wondering what the agenda here is. What's the point? Am I somehow, what a Nazi? A fascist, UN quote? I think that says enough. The reason we haven't discussed the other candidates in the recall election is because at this point, if Newsom is recalled, it's absolutely certain that elder will be the one to succeed him. He has a 20 point lead ahead of other challengers, but that lead is still only a tiny fraction of the total electorate, which demonstrates the part of the problem in California's recall process. There are other Republican challengers with concerning pasts and beliefs. Lots of anti mask, anti trans, anti VAX, total disbelief in climate change. People spouting Q Anon originated conspiracy claims advocating the lie that the presidential election was stolen. And there's even a Democrat challenger that plans to use the National Guard to round up all homeless people and put them in concentration camps. But Elder himself shares a lot of those views and uses the fact that he's black as a shield for criticism against his racist and nationalist policies and ideas. We haven't even mentioned that last month's elders ex fiance came out and said that elder was extremely abusive and had threatened her with a loaded gun. In early August, polls were showing pretty much neck and neck for the first question on the ballot, yes or no on the recall itself. A survey USA poll from that time even had 40% of respondents vote no on the recall and 51% vote yes to remove Newsom. Throughout August and September, results start to flip the other direction as ads against the recall hit the airwaves and Internet. The latest Survey USA poll has 54% voting no on the recall and 41% voting yes. Other polls hover around the same 10 to 15 point lead for Newsom staying in office. Now, with polls not going the way elder and the GOP would like, we're starting to see a new yet familiar narrative being prepared. Buy on my website, letelder.com, we have a voter integrity project. We have lawyers all set up already to go to file lawsuits in a timely fashion. The reason the lawsuits did not did not work in the 2020 election. We know what happened there is because the lawsuits were filed too late and many of them were dismissed on procedural grounds. Courts don't like to overturn an election, so when if you hear of anything suspicious, we heard a lot of things have been suspicious so far, go to electelder.com. We're going to stick our lawyers on them, file lawsuits right away. They're going to cheat. We know that. But I'll tell you what. So many people are angry about the crime, about the homelessness, about the way he shut down this state, about the fact that 1/3 of all small businesses, many of them are owned by black and Brown and Asian American people that they care about. But the declining quality of schools. But the fact that people are leaving rolling brownouts, lack of water, so many people are angry. The number of people that are going to vote to recall this man is going to be so overwhelming, so that even when they cheat, they're still going to lose. That's Larry Elder saying that if he doesn't win, that means the election must have been stolen. Fox News has been promoting the same idea the past month. All of it is in the vein of the stop the steel movement post the 2020 presidential election, culminating with the attempted insurrection on January 6th. Here's Elder again on Fox News in early September. But you're right, I am concerned about voter fraud. And that's why I'm asking people to go to electelder.com. That's my website. We have a voter integrity project set up with a bunch of lawyers ready to file lawsuits if anybody sees anything suspicious. Big 2020 election fraud conspiracy proponent and former House Speaker Newt Gingrich was one of the first people to chime in to Stoke disinformation about the recall election, and I think this may well be the most rigged statewide election we've seen, probably at least 1/2 century. And I. In the 1980s and 90s, a psychopath terrorized the country of Belgium. A serial killer and kidnapper was abducting children in the bright light of day. His unspeakable crimes and the incompetence or unwillingness of the police to stop him brought the entire country of Belgium to the brink of revolution. Just December. From Tenderfoot TV in iHeartRadio this is la Monstra. A story of abomination and conspiracy that led to the demise of the entire institution of Belgian federal police and rattled the foundations of its government. The story about the man who simply become known as La Monstre. Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This fall on revisionist history, there anything that we haven't talked about or I should have asked you or you'd like to add that seems relevant? You should have asked me why I'm missing fingers on my left hand. A story about sacrifice. I think his suffering drove him to try to alleviate suffering. And the shocking discovery I made where I faced the consequences of writing a book I thought would help people? Isn't that funny? That's not funny at all. It's depressing. Very depressing. Revisionist history is back with more. Listen to revisionist history on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. I've never seen less enthusiasm for a great idea in my life. This is a story about land and oil, about family, about wealth. About the stories we passed down and the stories we don't. More than 100 years ago, the Osage nation negotiated something unique that brought a lot of money to its people. For the past year, I've been trying to figure out who ended up with that wealth and how they got it. The truth has got to come out, you know, and it's it's not always pretty and it's not always flattering. This is in trust, an investigative podcast about a massive transfer of wealth out of Osage hands and into white ones, and how the Osage nation is fighting to get it back. In trust is a new series from Bloomberg and Iheart Media reported and hosted by me, Rachel Adams, heard listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. People should look carefully at this, because there's pretty good evidence that if Newsom is in a straight, honest count, he probably has a good chance of losing. But if they can stuff every ballot box in California and they can cheat in every way possible. And of course, this type of propaganda has made it on to the most watched cable news show on air, Tucker Carlson. California does not get the credit it deserves for the corruption that's endemic there. It's a one party state, and they act like it, and you've got to have concerns about whether this recall election. Will be free and fair. Are you concerned? Well, of course I'm concerned, Tucker. I'm involved in election integrity efforts throughout the United States and I'm also a member of the Republican National Committee. So we have a team of lawyers that is ready to deploy throughout the state here, and we are monitoring things every single day. Just a couple of hours ago, I filed a lawsuit to intervene in a challenge to the constitutionality of the Recall statute because, frankly, I don't trust the Secretary of State or the Attorney General who are both appointed by the governor to defend him in this regard. And so we are going to be jumping on every. Potential opportunity to do that and fight back against the Democrats, of course, they are playing fast and loose. We've seen some very alarming scenes of 300 ballots bundled together in the car, of a person with a gun and some drugs. And so we are definitely looking into all of these issues. But Tucker, ultimately it's going to come down to how much do people want to change in California. And I can tell you, even living in my latte, sipping avocado toast, eating, you know, Lululemon wearing neighborhood in San Francisco, people are fed up with the crime, the drugs, the homelessness. The intermittent electricity and everything else that is wrong with California. So people want to change here. It's just not working. And this really is a test of whether our system works. I mean, can people get better leadership? That's kind of the question. Will there be election observers on the scene so the rest of us can know this was fair? 100% the problem in California is that the voting doesn't just take place on Election Day like it would in a normal place. It takes. It's taking place now on a rolling basis through mail in voting. It's 100% mail in ballots this time around, and it is going to take place for 30 days after the election. If it's close because they have 30 days to count the vote, that's 60 days of voting. And of course a lot of shenanigans can occur in ballots can disappear. So we are going to be observing it very closely and demanding accountability and filing lawsuits wherever we need to. To hold the Democrats accountable because we cannot trust them? Yeah, I I hope so. People want to believe this system works, that it's real, that they have power, that their vote matters. So I appreciate what you're doing, Army Dillon. Thank you. A lot of what's said in that last clip is either extremely misrepresented or just flat out lies. Those 300 ballots found in a car were actually part of a larger male theft thing not related to the election at all. Voters have received new ballots. And for this election, just like the last one, Californians have the option to vote in person, to mail in ballots or deliver them in a drop box. The deadline to drop off mail or place your vote is September 14th. Counting cannot start till the 14th either, and like every election, there will be observers throughout the entire counting process. Obviously, this isn't the first time Conservative media has hyped up election fraud, the last presidential election being the biggest instance to date. But what is concerning here is that they're setting up a template to use for all future elections whenever Republicans lose. Here's a fox clip from September 7th and the only thing that will save Gavin Newsom is voter fraud. So as they say, stay woke. Pay attention to the voter fraud going on in California because it's gonna have big consequences not only for that state, but for upcoming elections. It's safe to assume that stop this steel esque strategies will be used almost every time a Republican loses in an election going forward. We've seen exactly what this type of rhetoric and propaganda leads to and it ends in blood. There were multiple attacks on state capitals during the stop the steel rallies prior to January 6th in some places like Salem, OR they succeeded in getting inside the capital. Even if Newsom gets to stay in office, there will still be many problems, election conspiracies and the possibility of violence like January 6th just being one. We haven't wanted to righteously defend Newsom here. He's a politician, and inept in many ways. He deserves plenty of criticism, especially on the issues of climate change. But the criticism levied at Newsom from the likes of Elder and the GOP are based on bigotry, nationalism and climate denial. Newsom should be our punching bag, not theirs. I'm Eve Rodsky, author of the New York Times Bestseller Fair play and find your Unicorn, space activists on the gender division of Labor attorney and family mediator. And I'm doctor Aditi Nerurkar, a Harvard physician and medical correspondent with an expertise in the science of stress resilience, mental health, and burnout. We're so excited to share our podcast, time out, a production of iheart podcasts, and hello. Sunshine, we're uncovering why society makes it so hard for women to treat their time with the value it deserves. So take this time out with us. Listen to timeout a Fair Play podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Jake Halpern's, host of deep cover. Our new season is about a lawyer who helped the mob run Chicago. We controlled the courts. We controlled absolutely everything. He bribed judges and even helped a hit man walk free until one day when he started talking with the FBI and promised that he could take the mob down. I've spent the past year trying to figure out why he flipped and what he was really after. From my perspective, Bob was too good to be true. There's got to be something wrong with this. I wouldn't trust that guy. He looks like a little scumbag liar, stool pigeon. He looked like what? He was a rat. I can say with all certainty I think he's a hero because he didn't have to do what he did, and he did it anyway. The moment I put the wire around the first time my life was over. If it ever got out, they would kill me in a heartbeat. Listen to deep cover on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The black effect presents features, honest conversations, and exclusive interviews, a space for artists, everyday people, and listeners to amplify, elevate, and empower black voices with great conversations. Make sure to listen to the black Effect Presents podcast on iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Greetings and welcome to it could happen here. I'm Garrison Davis. I am a researcher and writer on the podcast team. Today we have a roundtable discussion with a group of researchers who look into extremism and political political violence, usually stemming from far right propagandists and people in that kind of whole sphere. So we have a discussion relating to climate change. And all these other things so that I was able to record these fine people, it's split up into two sections. So part one is coming out today, Part 2 is coming out tomorrow. Highly recommend you listen to both, maybe maybe even back-to-back at some point because it does really give a a nice rounded out view of what we were talking about. So without further ado, here is my discussion with like I don't know. Well not not a dozen, but a lot a large amount of terrorism researchers as we are all. In the woods, as you will soon find out. Welcome to the good happened here, the The Daily Show. I am Garrison Davis and I'm recording in an undisclosed location in the woods. We are, we and a few a few Internet colleagues are all hiding from the world for a week to reset our poisoned brains. But I'm going to slightly re poison us here for about an hour to have a discussion about climate change and terrorism, because all. Like, we have a group of people here who are all who will research the bad thing online a lot. So I'm gonna try to try to use to, to take advantage of having this unique group of people all in one location to have this nice discussion for you guys. But yeah, specifically we want we want to talk about how we how each of us has a, you know, quote UN quote, expert in certain fields. See climate change impacting, impacting extremism and terrorism. In the next, in the next few decades. And yes, we are recording in the forest. So if you hear sounds like we're in the forest, that's because we are. You, you guys already know me. Or you probably do, but I'm gonna we're gonna go around a circle, probably starting on my left, introducing the people. And, yeah, just give a brief, a brief, brief bio, however detail do you want to get into? OK. My name is Matt Taylor. I'm a journalist and researcher focusing on cults, conspiracy theories and extremism. And today is my birthday. Happy birthday, Matt. In the in the past. My name's Theo. I am a journalist and researcher as well. I'm mostly focused on the American militia movement and paramilitary groups. I'm toothpick. I'm with Theo, Matt, Emmy and Big New houses isn't here on terrorism. Bat I that's that's a that's a podcast, by the way, self plug. My research and reporting focuses on mainly on conspiracy theories and where that overlaps with political extremism, and the focus on connections between. US and Europe, especially Germany. I'm Peter Smith. I'm a journalist with the Canadian Anti Hate Network and the host of the Unusual Show podcast. I'm Lily and I focus on extremism and counter terrorism and data analysis. And I'm Emmy. I do digital propaganda and rhetoric. That, that, that is our little crew. Yeah, let's see what the first thing we've kind of wanna talk about, I'm guessing, is how we see like the small because like the the podcast is more about like smaller local collapses, like we we don't there's not going to be one big collapse. We'll see small things start to fall apart and how we see when small things fall apart, what we do we see filling in those gaps specifically. I think this will tie into the militia movement a lot in a lot of ways. So yeah, you guys can start sprouting off your. Your knowledge, yeah. So one of the things that I've been thinking of and following, I don't know if this is made as much of an impact in U.S. media, but in the last month, parts of Germany and the Netherlands experienced really bad flooding that that literally wiped out some villages and some towns. And one of the things that we've seen in Germany is, you know, far right groups. There isn't really a militia movement because of the laws there, but but far right groups rushing in and collecting aid and going for photo OPS in those catastrophe areas. And what that does make me think of and maybe Theo can talk more about this as we've seen similar stuff in the US with the militia movement marking themselves as, you know, emergency preparedness. Or marking itself in that way and positioning themselves where. When you know the government is unable to respond, that these groups are able to come in and also using that for their messaging and for their rhetoric. Yeah. So I mean that is something that you see in the US, the biggest example Garrison and I talked about this earlier, but during the wildfires in Oregon last year, you saw checkpoints being established by militia groups, whether already formed militia groups are kind of impromptu armed bands. And you also see that as like a big marketing thing. I know a lot of the Virginia based militias that I follow went out to Tennessee. Two, one or two years ago when the Tornadoes happened, I was gonna mention that, yeah, they did a bunch of kind of aid and photo OPS. Yeah. Yeah. So just not to Dox myself, but I'm from Nashville. And then beginning of 2020 in March, right before coronavirus, someone just dropped a toy gun. Great job, guys. Yeah. So in the beginning of March of last year, right before COVID hit Nashville, we had a huge tornado go through. Asheville itself and wipe out. Like two different neighborhoods and then a rural town right outside of Nashville, but you saw a lot of like, so the Community comes together and this really nice display of mutual aid to do all the cleanup basically before any official crews could get there. But with that, you also sell like these far right groups coming in for photo OPS and it just, it normalizes their presence in heavily impacted areas and it was. Not not ideal, yeah. A lot of the American militia movement, especially the modern kind of post 2008 three percenter strain of it, is predicated on this idea of a complete breakdown of order or a loss of civil order. However you conceive of that and these like climate disasters that are going to hit areas are going to kind of provide a self fulfilling prophecy for these people to step in and say like, Oh no, you need some sort of armed force. You need some sort of group of people to keep order and to keep law in whatever way they conceive of that. And I think it's interesting you guys talking about kind of like the photo op thing that they do because when the wildfires happened in Oregon, all of the the actual like relief work was done by anti fascists like we know like people in Portland. We set up, you know these, these massive camps to help, you know all these like you know much more conservative people who have led to that with their evacuate their homes and they were all getting fed and all that. They're closing stuff were coming from anti fascists and the all the right did was do the armed checkpoints. Financially that like in the South where there's less anti fascists like you know compared to the general compared to the Portland right. How some of those groups actually do do some of the relief effort and that that's definitely not the case up here in the in in the West Coast. Oh yeah I mean last year I remember a few county level militias that I follow in Virginia were like seriously doing relief work like they were gathering food they were taking out the places affected by flooding in North Carolina but tornadoes and. Tennessee, it's not. I wouldn't go so far as to call it mutual aid because it lacks the kind of ideological framework for that. But they are providing some sort of infrastructure, I think, mutual aid for their guys. Yeah, yeah, yeah. With with less of, like the theory side of mutual aid, but like, and I'm sure there's someone else who can speak more on this, but like. From my perspective, growing up in a super weird church, I see this inner interacting. I see this like combining with local churches a lot as well. I'm not sure if there's anyone else here who could say something more intelligently than me about how like, religion will combine with these like kind of militia efforts. Well, I was like eco, eco extremists like on the far right, on the very fringe far right, can start to like be very esoteric about their. You know, believe in climate change and they start to sort of frame it as like a reason for the collapse that we need collapse our attacking infrastructure like. For the purpose of somehow saving the planet even though it's really not going to get them anywhere, we really need to, we have to do a lot of our own work on the plan that we can't just destroy everything and see if it works. Yeah, we can definitely bring up acceleration exists and accelerationism as a as an over overarching thing that is, you know, not just it, not to be like horseshoe theory about it, but acceleration isn't pops up a whole whole lot of areas, including areas at the left where it becomes very unuseful. And that can lead to like a lot of wasted time and some destructive tendencies. I mean, I think that point kind of also provides an interesting through line between more mainstream militias and like the really esoteric brands of ecofascism or ecologically based extremism. Is that like they're both? Very influenced by, like, colonial schools of thought, like Eco fascism and all that is kind of predicated on this idea of, like, Terra nullus. Like there is this perfect, empty wild land that we can have manifest destiny. Exactly. And like so much of the ideas of order and like peacekeeping that you find within more mainstream militia movements come from this exact same type of thinking where it's like a colonial order that you need to keep. Yeah, I know there's a lot of a lot of people on the left. Who are in like the kind of like you know, green, green like ecosocialist or like green anarchist kind of strange. We get very frustrated when people talk about Eco fascism, which I can understand because no one really means the same thing. When they talk about it sometimes they just mean any like any like quote UN quote terrorism that has like has like environmental purpose. Some people, you know, when they think of ecofascism think of like, overpopulation. I mean there's a lot of different things they mean mean by it. But I know we we've all had talks, but like what? Personally view is like eco fascism because it's it's it's not just eco extremism like ecofeminism does not equal fascism like there is. There's a whole bunch of extremists who are very anti fascist and there is some who kind of bridge bridge the gap. You know like like like I TS has some more fascist tendencies but I would not accurately call them fascist based on the type of stuff they do with type of writing they do. They do not have they they do not check all of the boxes. But then then we do have people who I would accurately describe as ecofascist. We've done who've done, you know, mass shootings, who have a lot of who have eco fascist stuff either in like the writing that they like or their own manifestos. They bring up enough points. It's like, yeah, you kind of fall into this broad category. Does someone here want to give their personal definition of ecofascism this? Isn't this not necessarily exactly what we use for the pod? But I just, I'm interested to hear a lot of people with various backgrounds. Everyone has their own specialized knowledge. What kind of when people say that, what what do you kind of put into that category? People believe in like this organic law and like natural order, and they believe that like there is a natural hierarchy ingrained in everything and I think that generally like. If we return to like some kind of primitive society or like. You know. Uh, they'll. Assume that, like everything has. Its own structure and that there's going to be people who rise to the top, people who just, you know. Don't belong in that kind of society. It's going to be really damaging for like the elderly, for disabled people, and they just sort of see it as like survival of the fittest. And I think that's like a much more eco fascist point of view rather than like a more green anarchist point of view where things would sort of even out. Become a hierarchical. Yeah. Yeah. I think hierarchy is an important part of that. And how we, you know, there is like a lot of green artists who are focusing on like making their own medication for, for, you know, people with diabetes and stuff. And that's the stuff that is like really interesting to look at and stuff that we should absolutely pursue. Yeah, this will become less reliant on supply chains and we don't really see eco fascist through that. We do not, we do not see them focusing on making medication for people. Oh no, maybe I can kind of set some people up to say more stuff. I say this real quickly, but one of the things that I always. Or that that is a red flag for me is is just, you know, bringing in this very traditional discussions of gender roles and and relating that to the environment. Yeah, any of our rhetoric. Can you give an example? I mean, I don't, I don't need to say names of specific, like writers or people, but there's definitely like, describe like this. Sure. You know, stop playing with the toy gun. Oh my God. Just just like establishing. And it is kind of, it can be kind of like a older left thing too, but establishing, you know, ecological. Discussions within framework of traditional gender roles and kind of like. What is expected of people based on their sex? Yeah, this is this is this is the dark side of cottage core. Yes. Yeah. That's one way to put it. Yeah. I mean, you wanna get in here? Ohh boy. Yeah. Amy likes cottage court. I love cottage. I like parts of cottage. Court is not one intersects with a certain straight of politics. Ohh right. Well, like queer cottage core is extremely cute. Sure. Until until yeah. Until you're not queer. And yeah, sometimes they. Still are. Now, here's the thing, when we're when we're dealing with, like, traditional gender role stuff, it's a really, like, slippery slope into more. Aggressive strains of thought. Yeah. So when we're when we're talking about the idea of of the class playing with the toy gun and you gotta get the ATF, I will throw you out. It's my birthday. I don't want that. We will. We will turn this podcast. It's massive birthday. You ask toothpick apologizing. Yeah. That's funny. Continue anyway. Yeah, rip to the editor. I wouldn't know. That's like this stays in so good. So. When they're talking about the clouds and they want, you know, they think the the rot of modernity will be gone, society will be ended. They can, they can, you know, rebuild from the ground up smaller communities and they can they can build the society they want, which is largely ethno nationalist. Yeah. It's not great the the idea that there will be this, this super traditional family structure you're going to have your, your, this combined strong warrior also homesteading man and your cool trad wife. Yeah, who never ages above. 30 in this society like it just does that's a high range. Doesn't age about 25. I'm I'm being generous here assuming that at least like some of these people have a little bit of like pre planning, but they don't. They don't. And. They they step on each other a lot, right? Because they have. This this whole plan for this, this society free of industry, and they can't stop posting about it on the Internet, which is pretty funny, which is really funny, right? Like, they're not, they're not good at it. Yeah, they're like way too addicted to posting to, like actually commit to like, the true off the grid trad life, at least at least 10K was off the grid. We don't got to hand it. You gotta hand. Gotta hand it to her. You gotta head to you. Do you want to know circumstances and got ahead. Potted Potter divided on how much we gotta hand it to 10K. The official stance of terrorism. Bad as a terrorism is bad. Why don't we just bring them on? It is kind of a concern when they do end up when they stop posting. I mean, yeah, it's a concern when they're posting, but it's kind of more concerning. You would rather than just keep posting sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. It's the same as like looking at a kid that wants to be a firefighter or something. Like, they're just talking. They're not gonna do it. You see how I'm doing it and when they're doing the thing, the white style influencer version of fascism, yeah. Do you think that it's going to affect kind of like. Laws about living off grid and laws about like, yes for for normal people just wanna get the **** out. I actually just read something about this. There is some guy who'd been living off grid in Pennsylvania for like 30 years and I don't remember the details of this. And we don't have Internet out here. Old guy, yeah, it was an old guy. Burned his house down. Yeah, he's in jail now. He's probably going to be in jail for the rest of his life. And I think part of whether it comes from left or the right as people kind of start to try to build resiliency within communities. For disasters that are coming and start to seek ways of living that do not rely on supply chains and do not rely on the state, the state will strike back against that as a consolidation of power because the more that people move away from it, whether on the left or right, the less power the state has. I mean and utilizing counterterrorism an excuse to do so. Yeah, because they're giving them reasons and it's not, it's not going to get enforced. Equally, I'm sure the government is going to focus on certain people doing this and. These slightly more OK with other people doing it well. Well, yeah. What's so I I would like to talk about Canada a little bit because it's specifically climate change affecting Canada can be very is going to be slightly different and most of it compared to the states because I've been, I've been, I've been having my, my my waist deep in climate science books for most of 2021 and Canada's going to probably see economic boosts and they're probably the states probably just going to act good actually. Longer because of how the same thing with Russia. Both Canada and Russia are gonna get more economically powerful under climate change because of how much more crops are gonna get moved up. How? Give me your thoughts. You can because in Canada is my backup plan. As soon as it gets too spicy in the states, I'm I'm taking my Canadian passport and hiding in the woods. How, how, what's yourself something? It's interesting to hear you guys talk about American Melissa Culture because we we definitely are rhetoric and propaganda that we see in Canada. It gets borrowed a lot. The talking points from the states like the the concepts, but what we don't have are these. Strong organized militia groups, we had three percenters for a while and who still exist, but they were they were big about being off grid like they were the ones who weren't posting for a long time. And it seems like as much as all these people are still around, they've largely deflated down because Canada has made some, some efforts to call them terrorists, right, right. Very recently we designated them as a terrorist organization. Yeah, which doesn't carry it a criminal charge, but if you if you do something involved with them. Send the money like there is. There are consequences of that. Legal enhancements, OK, but our our kind of militia culture focuses on the illegitimacy of the state that Canada's founded. It's very kind of soft sit type rhetoric, but that Canada's establishment, it's its rules and especially with all the public health measures, it's this growing, this growing kind of tide of thought. In both the prairies and largely out West, yeah, I grew up in Saskatchewan. Just my family is in Alberto. I know when when I look at when I because I I keep a soft eye on some Canadian hate groups just because I'm Canadian. Most of them pop up around Alberta. Where do you see this stuff kind of like happening like do you see any of this on the East Coast if so is it smaller or is this mostly on like a West Coast Canada thing. Well that like that conspiratorial thought we've seen kind of across the country like on the East Coast. You know just recently we had people setting up their own version of checkpoints as like a protest against the. The public health measures. OK, yeah. And like the whole eastern part of Canada is in its own bubble. Yeah, right now, but yeah, you had this like conspiracy based movement forming these actual checkpoints. And then the main part of it though is probably going to be out West. Like that is where these ideas are the most popular or the most popular. That makes sense, where mainstream politicians are moving towards, you know, amplifying these type of talking points. Is. Do you see that like? Is that is that is that a mostly Alberta thing? It's a mostly like prairies, Alberta like OK the farmland. The interesting part is that when you talk about groups is like in Canada groups are an urban phenomenon for the most part. OK, most of our organization takes place around the city centers and that that is very different from the states. With the states it's usually the usually the opposite in some there's always exceptions of 2 million people live, but generally we see it as more as more of a rural thing which organized or as cities are more like. Liberal and that's right, the anti fascist groups are based, but it's kind of these like these little ideological pockets that exist all over and certainly that sentiment is probably shared, but the the need to mobilize seems to mostly focus on the urban centers and then we'd never have our groups providing any kind of age to people that's just or even checkpoints like that's beyond these like very recent protest movements. You know, there has been, you know, more forest fires around BC. Around, you know, Western Alberta, how do you see the government's response to these types of things right now and can live in a, in a in a particular situation with the Liberals having minority control and you know, the the Canadian politics parliamentary system is probably confusing to a lot of Americans. They don't understand it already. But yeah how, how what do you, what do you see on on that front, you know, you know, Justin Trudeau, both Trudeau and Biden talk the talk around like pipelines and stuff but then do the complete opposite. How do you kind of see this kind of stuff working right now? Or for like on the on the climate side of things. Well, yeah, our, our reaction to the firefighters or so a reaction to the the wildfires. I mean, the government response has always looked down on like it's always looked at poorly, but none of these people are taking this as an opportunity to kind of change minds, you know, do PR, there's much less reaction to it, most like the West. Also there's this incredible feeling of alienation because of the way that our government is set up. They have substantially. Us, they have substantially less voting power. Yeah, the same way in the states. How, you know, there's like this accelerating states or states in the Midwest, you feel like they don't really have any power politically. Same thing for almost the entire entire West Coast of Canada, everything from like Manitoba to Alberta and parts of BC you know, everyone is very frustrated at, at, at, at, at, at the, at the federales and how they really don't have control for what's happening. Look out, people in the East Coast are controlling or what what our, what our pipelines or what our minds are doing and that does not fear. My workers, because, yeah, it is. It does suck when, you know a a mine closes and then everyone in a small town is out of business. Like the part, the part where I grew up in Canada, all my Stanley around them, you know, used to be in, you know, bustling small towns that are basically all, all now ghost towns because stopped clothes. People had to move to either, like. In the 1980s and 90s, a psychopath terrorized the country of Belgium. A serial killer and kidnapper was abducting children in the bright light of day. His unspeakable crimes and the incompetence or unwillingness of the police to stop him brought the entire country of Belgium to the brink of revolution. From Tenderfoot TV in iHeartRadio this is la Monstra. A story of abomination and conspiracy that led to the demise of the entire institution of Belgian federal police and rattled the foundations of its government. The story about the man who simply become known as La Monster. Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This fall on revisionist history, is there anything that we haven't talked about or or I should have asked you or you'd like to add that seems relevant? You should have asked me why I'm missing fingers on my left hand. A story about sacrifice. I think his suffering drove him to try to alleviate suffering. And the shocking discovery I made where I faced the consequences of writing a book I thought would help people? Isn't that funny? It's not funny at all. It's depressing. 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Calgary, Edmonton, Regina. Don't laugh. So you know all these specific things. You know, we see pockets of this. We see pockets. We see pockets of this in like the Midwest in the States, definitely. I also was like, like Manifest Destiny ship because, like, there's a lot of, there are a lot of. It started with people kind of moving outward to try and gain more land and make their borders larger and, like, live further out to like, try and. And obtain more territory and with the. Like Canadian big surgeon, like indigenous rights and a big focus and shift to like sort of give them land back or so. I'm not exactly clear on what the Canadian fans are on that, but just like, I mean we have a big movement from indigenous populations to it seem very like the continent like well, there's so many different bands and tribes and different types of nations. Like we have unseated territory and the dynamics with which the government is supposed to deal with and has agreed to deal with and actually does. Your them is all vastly different. But yeah, that that idea of this focus on these particular issues like indigenous issues, even our attempts to, you know, have a greener economy, you know, for a place that for a long time and still is an extraction economy, yes. Like affect the oil company with healthcare, yeah, more like extremist far right groups who want to move out. That way for the purpose of organizing and you also have the indigenous focus within the liberal government so like? How do those 2 groups do you think like interact? Like the general conception is that the push for indigenous rights, especially on the farther right, is is for the disenfranchisement of white Europeans like it is. And then, yeah, you do have this Western exodus where we have very popular figures who are moving further W because there are these stronger ideas of sovereignty. I forget what exactly was polling, but when the Western exit or Waxman started, you know, there was a significant amount of popular or at least like not strong support, but like existing support. There was, there was, there was a, there was a large amount of support. Yeah, absolutely. It'll be interesting to see what happens. You know, talking about collapse, like, you know, in these small towns in like cloistered communities, you know, they already feel cut off from the government and not represented. And then if you have a breakdown of infrastructure, you know, that'll create like, why do we even happen in the 1st place if they're not helping us exactly. Which is which, which is true, which is like a, well, real thing to think about, but their solutions are wildly different than the actual solutions to help people, right? And we've already seen how this plays out in the past as well with. You know, places where the infrastructure starts to breakdown and then people who have weapons kind of become the authority just based on the fact that they have more power. So one of the things that I follow is a lot of kind of like the more. Let's characterize it as as Boomer esque conspiracy theories, especially with anti VAX, anti public health measures type thing. And one of the things that that that really is noticeable to me is how much more sovereign citizen stuff is creeping up into those areas. And especially you know they're they're two really big examples of, you know, if there's an anti VAX protest in your city, it's probably one of these two networks that both come from Europe that I'm not going to name right now. And those two networks also, you know, love to organize over the messaging app Telegram. And Telegram is tell me if I'm stepping in at Emmy. Telegram is where you know so much of this ideology, this far, right ideology is able to cross mix and comingle. Yeah. You know, I we we talked about Telegram. Enough in the pods. OK, cool. But people are familiar. You haven't stepped in it yet. Keep going. Yeah, look at Jason and Jason to stepping, you know? But it's fine. It's. Yeah. So so, I mean. My biggest framework, and I talk about this a lot, is, is telegram as kind of this technological embodiment of the cultic milieu? Because there is so like basically no enforcement close to no enforcement on Telegram and so. You know, these, these more malicious actors know that and they know that they can find an audience who's interested in, you know, opposing the mainstream conspiratorial thought in these kind of like boomer. Tell boomers on telegram and conspiracy groups and there are, you know, malicious actors planning to go in. And when these people over and, you know, a lot of these malicious actors are younger people who don't have those resources, but they know that they can win over these people who do have resources, who own land, who have savings to kind of like fund that movement if. Yeah. Oh, I was just gonna say, I do think that the cultic will use like a really important heuristic for these kind of collapse scenarios, because the question of what happens when kind of infrastructure and any sort of political guidance falls away is governed a lot by that. And like this idea that there is, there are these ideas floating around in our society and once people have nothing else to turn to, these malicious actors will bring this stuff in. And yeah, to put it simply, then we're pretty ******. Yeah, Telegram also has recently started to have to crack down on people and because of that you have this really interesting dichotomy of people who are saying like this means like get ready, get prepared, go off grid, get guns. And you also have on the other end people who are saying, you know, create alt tech platforms and like create more like self encryption and. Like? I'm trying not to step in right now. Yeah, yeah, no, I'm with you. But to be able to to speak more. Like peer-to-peer resource. And that wraps up part one of the Terrorism Roundtable discussion. Thanks so much for listening. You can find us at happen here. Pod and cools on media on all of the socials you can find me at Hungary bow tie. And you can follow a decent amount of the researchers on their podcast at terrorism bad. The podcast, I think. I think it's just a terrorism bad. Anyway, thanks for listening to part one. Part 2 drops tomorrow. Stay tuned. This is Roxanne gay, host of the Roxanne gay agenda, the Bad Feminist podcast of Your Dreams. Now, what is the Roxanne gay agenda, you might ask? Well, it's a podcast where I'm going to speak my mind about what's on my mind, and that could be anything. Every week I will be in conversation with an interesting person who has something to say. We're going to talk about feminism, race, writing and books and arts, food, pop culture, and yes, politics. I started show with a recommendation. Really, I'm just going to share with you a movie or a book or maybe some music or a comedy set. Something that I really want you to be aware of and maybe engage with as well. Listen to the Luminary original podcast, the Roxanne gay agenda, the Bad Feminist podcast of Your Dreams, Every Tuesday on the iHeartRadio. Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Give us your attention, we need everything you got fast. Waiting on reparations would be the endless podcast TuneIn every Thursday. 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This is part two of our Terrorism roundtable discussion. If you haven't listened to Part 1 already, I would recommend you scroll back, listen to the previous episode, and then continue on from here so you have kind of context to what exactly we're talking about. Anyway, this is part two of our discussion in the woods. I hope you enjoy. Something we talked about earlier this year after January 6th was like, should the government ban telegram? Right. That was the thing. And there's a lot of, a lot of arguments are like, no, absolutely not. And there's the. Does anyone want to speak on that? You know, like, if I want to talk about the government's response to these things, you know, that's a very governmental thing to do. Be like, oh, people are organizing this platform. Get of the platform problem gone. Yeah. And that's not how that works. And then a little bit. Sure. Yeah. So there, yeah, getting rid of the platform doesn't necessarily help, especially when it's something that is important, such as like, you know, encrypted communication, which is something that more people than just Nazis need, and that resource should not be cut off. And there's also kind of the bad precedent to be set if the if the government is deciding which forms of speech it needs to have complete access to. I don't love that. The other thing is that if if we nuke telegram, right, they don't disappear. They form new networks, they're still there. They're still there to do more things in person, right? They're still there. They're just harder. They're harder and they're harder to track. Absolutely correct. When they say deep platforming works because it works for the platform, and a lot of people just want that. A lot of people just don't want to see Nazi ****. And they're fine with, you know, deep platform. And they say this works and they have data to back up that it does work, but it works for the platform, but the people still exist. Yeah, they're boosting ownership. And when they bring up building their own old tech platforms, you know it only works if you get there early. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there is elements. Yeah. Deep platform is a wider thing. Can work especially like in person stuff. But yeah, but that's the thing you're mentioning. Yes, it is. It is definitely not, not that cut and dry and telegrams. Really interesting, because it is. Kind of this middle space between social media and just a messaging app. Yeah, because it has those elements too, is that anybody can look at these, you know, the public channels? Yes. So without without saying anything in the chat. So people could be kind of completely invisible. Nobody, like nobody knows that they're there. They're watching this stuff and they're still getting the same messaging. They're still getting the same dates for protests. They're still like organizing, but they can be sort of just subscribed to a channel and subscribed. You can just know the name, just looking into getting that flow of information without ever having, like, formal organizing, so to speak. And it's so it's really hard to say that, like, you know, these people planned this because there's a lot of plausible deniability and there's anybody who's involved. There's so much easy hyperlinking between groups and channels and everything, so easy for someone to move between ideology and to go from kind of like the base level ship into the much deeper stuff extremely quick. Very quick, yeah. She like, well, that's like the thing that is good fun, that's good for them about Telegram is that you have all of the people that are vulnerable to, let's say, new ideas in one place. Yeah, that's a big thing you get, right? Recruitment. Exactly. If you're trying to plan a collapse, you're going to need a lot more people than the numbers that the people who want to collapse actually have. So the easiest way to kind of move things along is to start inserting their ideas and their discourses and kind of altering the vibe of certain. Digital environments manually, yeah, until they have what we can kindly call cannon fodder. Yeah. Or even starting their own and saying like you know, this is a MAGA platform and it's actually just, you know, a bunch of bunch of acceleration estimate and we definitely made it to recruit them. Yeah. We definitely saw attempts of this with like Q Anon. If people who are way more acceleration is trying to use, you know, people's extremely, yeah it was successful. It wasn't just and they did it and queuing on people died. Well you're, I mean that. And then also you've got like a like the idea of the boogaloo, right. That's been Co opted, yeah to try to appeal to leftists. I mean, there's a really good article by left Coast, right watch that goes into one of those chats. And they're basically like, yeah, really try to push these ideas of really try to push talking points like Black Lives Matter and all this. We want to get these protesters on our side. And then you also have some blatant, like, white supremacist groups who are also using the boogaloos. Like how much of that is? Sort of real genuine. Like, I am not racist. I believe in Black Lives Matter. Like, I want to be part of this even though I'm a visual or like how much of it also is kind of reminiscent of what we were talking about yesterday. I also don't want to step in it, but like with, you know, the idea from Manson was like Helter Skelter and like causing that race where it's like they what they would do is like try and frame black people for it and say like this was, you know? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I mean like how much of it is saying. Like, this is Black Lives Matter, and they want people to see that after they do the boogaloo group that showed up in Portland in January, in July of 2020 when the price of the feds were happening, you know, they they showed up and were all like, yeah, we're here to support Black Lives Matter and stand against the federal government and stuff. And they had some very suspicious patches that took me up, took me about a year to figure out what they were. And it's like this accelerationist, like it it ties into a whole bunch of, like, eco fascist propaganda stuff. Yeah. And yeah, it's like. They're they're saying these things while they have these very obscure patches. And yeah this is an important reason why we need people who are not very smart. Like I will say Jimmy Dore, who puts these, who gives people platforms are some of the worst and are gonna cause a lot of problems because they have no idea what they're doing or they know what they're doing and they're just bad. Yeah and like that Boo thing kind of serves a twofold purpose in that you can bring people who self identify as leftists into the movement. But you also have a really good scapegoat for, like, actual action. Like, that was a big thing that we saw in Minneapolis when things first popped off and like, precinct was getting burned down and suddenly people on the Internet start losing their minds about the umbrella Guy, umbrella, umbrella guy at the audit, at the ****. And there was a guy who was indicted. He was a Boo Boo boy who was indicted for like, headline said, burning down the precinct. He fired a weapon and fired a gun on, like, near the wall. Exactly. And so that at the same time takes away agency from left wing movements and the states able to be like, look, see, it's just, it's OK to crack down on them because they're all, you know, wild white supremacists. Exactly. Just from any autonomous movement that forms of the people in a community that isn't that we wouldn't necessarily refer to his left. It's just ****** *** people. I mean, that's what we saw in every single, you know, every city, every city, the young kids who are ******* ****** *** that are going to go smash it. And it's like saying all of this is people from outside of the town. It's like, I know outside agitators. Yeah, yeah. It's a tale as old as time. Like outside agitator has been used since before the very old state talking point. Yeah. Are you gonna say that? Yeah. I was gonna say also, I mean, it's somewhat related to that. We're talking about using like Q Anon as cannon fodder. Yeah. And also ties into the subset conversation we were having. So my research is special or not specialized. I focus on Christian identity, this white supremacist ideology, and how specifically how it's grown since the 90s until now through like the Internet and all that fun stuff. This whole point they've been pushing lately is to like, they're this with Christian identity. The whole thing is they are. Preparing for the apocalypse which they call the tribulations and they see. Modern CI folks see the boogaloo as like the tribulation that's coming. So what they're trying to do is go off grid and really try to like, establish this new land for like to protect their kids and everything from like pollution and all that **** but also to. Be away from the collapse and be able to survive it. And then while they're doing all that, like, prepping homesteads and like compounds and stuff, they're also like pushing, like election fraud, conspiracies and all that on like Q Anon and the MAGA crowd. Not because they believe it, not because, yeah, right. They don't believe they know it's ******** but they can use it to accelerate collapse, just like January says. Yes. So exactly like, I mean when, I mean there are groups when Joe Biden won the Presidency. Or won the election, whatever. Some groups being like, yeah, really try to push this theory of this conspiracy about election fraud, even if you even if you don't believe in it, just push it because that helps our cause. Exactly. And that's that's something to be really mindful of to. Forgot where else I was going with that. But yeah, a lot of them don't mean what they say. They'll say things that'll push other people to do something that they don't necessarily want to do. And that's a lot of, a lot of like during January 6th, so much excitement because they could see that the Q, Anon, Crower actually mobilizing. And so they said to them like to themselves, like. You know, get them, get them mobilizing for the white race, get them mobilizing for, you know, our cause. And they've really successfully been able to infiltrate that and. Be able to get some people on board with some of it? Yeah, just based on using their rhetoric. Yeah, yeah, I know I talked about this on our podcast, but you could see it like I I reported on January 6th in person, and like, you could watch it happen. Someone with a skull mask on or a proud boy or an oathkeeper would literally come back from the police line, grab a group of people, yell something at them about Q Anon or the storms upon us, and throw them up to that riot line. You guys did a really good yeah. You did a really good visual investigation of how those extremist groups used mega people and Q Anon people as their foot soldiers. The QA folk. QA did a really good breakdown on their deception on Anonymous podcast. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's also with, I mean, not to link everything to Christian identity, which I have a tendency to do, but it's it's very ideologically similar to Q Anon. Like from a Christianity point of view, like Q Anon is like so close to the edge of Christian identity. It's very scary actually. Talked about it on Jake Hammerhands Q Clearance podcast, but it there's also, like, not only trying to accelerate things through them, but also trying to recruit them through these, like, very, very similar talking points about, like, the synagogue of Satan and all that, saying that identity is an entry point for some of them. Some of them, yeah, bring it up as an entry point into further, like, accelerationist Nazi **** but like, they will start with Christian identity because they think that it's more packable. Two people who already believe in Qanon. Well, yeah, exactly. I mean, like, Will was saying these, there's a lot of this comes from these kind of boomer conspiracies and anti VAX groups. And you're not gonna be able to get, you know, memaw and Pap, pap into like wotanism or something like that. Well, if you try hard enough, you can. Sure. But like, Christianity is something that's palatable. It's normal to them. And as you can kind of slowly tweak it through Q Anon, you can get them to this much more extreme. Yeah. Yeah. Talk about Christian identity. I think we should like. Maybe, Matt, you could define it. Christian identity. It's this radical offshoot of Christianity that sees all white people as a true Israelites from the Bible. And they also think Jewish people are all literally the spawn of Satan. There's this really dumb theory that came up with and like kind of rewrote the whole Bible off of called can I name it is, Oh yeah, you can. OK dual seed line theory where they say like the story if you know about like, Adam and Eve and all that. They had Cain and Abel, Canadian, yeah, right. So they see Cain was the offspring of Eve and the Devil and he is literally the spawn of Satan. And then he intermingled with all these races that were there before Adam and Eve and created this demonic race and it's really. Really ******* dumb. But it's still here. It is. It's been here for a hot minute. Probably gonna keep going. It's gonna get worse. Calling it now, it's gonna get worse. Gonna get worse. Yeah, but and the whole thing is they essentially like worship like a Nazi Jesus. They see Jesus only was really only talking to the white race and that Christianity and like God only is able to be perceived by the white race. And that's before you start laughing at people. Yes, it does sound very silly. Keep in mind that these are extremely dangerous. Like. Yeah. I mean, you had like, right. This is one problem with two and on when liberals just start laughing about how crazy it is and then they're so surprised at January 6th, we're like, no, no, like you it's. Yeah. Like they're actually dangerous. Yeah. I mean, Christian identity is. He's been mentioned in a lot. Yeah. And he's Christian. And he's been mentioned in various manifestos linked to, you know, actually to actually. Yeah, absolutely. Formed very, like organized groups, like, I mean. Historically, you look at those big part of like with Christian identity and with a lot of these kind of like a lot of them face, they're like whole historical context of like Arianism on this rewriting of history based on a fake study that was done in Nazi Germany about where some proto Indo European languages came from. And so they believe that like white people came from. An area that's, you know, you could generally say this sort of near the Black Sea. And that it's based on this like strange idea that like. Sanskrit is not the oldest language but like. Are you pointing the gun at me? Because I'm stepping. You're you're getting real close. You're getting real close to the edge. Like the historical context. I think it actually is useful and it shows it's not. Yeah, there there is actual things that can be traced back from this. Yeah, they really tried to push this. They made a lot of fake studies that you could spend a lot of time researching this and believe that it's true because there's just so much written about it. And I think this is like a tactic that they really tend to do with. Historical revisionism a lot is just crank out essay after essay, even if it's wrong, even if it's totally, like based on false data or just skewed data. They don't care. They just write about it, and that they think that like having more written about it makes it more legitimate. And if that's what we are talking have been talking about this this whole time we've been not recording is there's just no overflow of content that is so easy to access, you know, not necessarily. From these specific groups, trust from. The further right in general, Ohh yeah yeah, they just overflow the content. It's like always the top **** on Facebook to give an idea of how pervasive even that idea of like where Indo European languages came from. Like when I still went to college I took a religions of South Asia course and we had to spend like multiple days where a professor went through these myths about like what was that the area invasion which like was there are Arian people that that is a thing historically. Yes, they're not white people, but like, going through the definition of white people. Sure, whiteness is relative language. They think of Arianism as, like, referring to a linguistic pattern. Yeah. But like in a university course, we still had to go through and, like, debunk these myths because they've gotten so pervasive within culture. Yeah. And another thing I want to say is that kind of these more. Entry level conspiracy ideas? It is hard to overemphasize how small the spaces between the entry level stuff and the much harder stuff. It can happen extremely, extremely fast. You know I'll give, I'll give an example. I went to you know I was reporting on an anti VAX protest and they went straight into talking about New World order and and yeah project locks, lockstep and and the Rothschilds in the builder burgers and like the Sabbatarians and David Icke **** just me and this is this is the middle of the day and like a metropolitan area with a bunch of boomers. Trump paths who are getting this, like, ******** **** pumped at them or you. We shall sell them a lot with the Nashville bombing to like, immediately. It was like, ohh, it was actually an attack on Dominion. And also it was orchestrated by the Rothschilds to destroy evidence of voter fraud. I forgot that. That was a whole. Yeah. And then also there was a whole, like, there was a bunch of stuff that came out. There was a big conspiracy that was actually a missile strike. I had to talk to my grandpa down from that, really. Not about that. I didn't know. I didn't. There was a a video that circulated. For awhile, but then I had to get into a conversation with my grandpa, but at the time was super isolated because of COVID. And that's a whole other yeah. So that's a whole other problem. Yeah yeah. And I had to like talk him down and show him like, no, here's a here's a video from somebody I knew who was like somewhat in the area and saw the explosion and don't like. And there was not a missile anywhere near. One of the data studies I've done is and worked on is using big pool and small pool discord servers of. Far right extremist, far right militia groups and very, very like Accelerationist skull mask type networks and looking at the big pools and the small pools and seeing the at mentions between them. Yeah. Yeah. And there was not one person who was more than three notes away from anybody else. So you it's very, it can't be overstated how close people are from entry to very, very, very extreme. Uh. Types of. Goals, yeah. And and ideology. Explicit ideologies that explicitly push violence. And you know, another point I want to bring up is like, you know, there's been much said about Qanon. It isn't going away. It's just not called Q Anon anymore. Yeah, with with these anti VAX mobilizations. Those mobilizations and groups aren't going away. They're just gonna continue to shift and evolve their focus. And the networks stay the network and they're planning for it, though, like they networks network, they've they've they've designed it that way. So I sometimes I find the normal stuff first, sometimes I find the crazy stuff first. But I mean, not even that long ago I, I came across a particular social media profile that was explicitly calling for acts of terror and attempting to organize acts of terror and displaying acts of terror, which is like an immediate. Problem that needs to be dealt with. However, they had multiple alternate accounts that you follow that path. And on their other accounts they're sharing, like Tucker Carlson stuff. Yeah, like things that your grandparents are gonna watch, right? Like and and that is done on purpose to try to, like, siphon people out of of more quote UN quote, mainstream versions of like, conspiratorial thinking directly into like, you should start exploding things. And even even more, even more, let's say left of center conspiracy thinking. Ties into this? Yeah. As well, it does. And it's not, you know, conspiracy theories are not solely a thing of the right at which which ****** me off to no end. That sorry, no. I just want to back you up on that. Like, I think there's this, maybe this, like, implicit idea that the left is immune to conspiracy theories when it very much is on drugs and all the rage. Yeah. Yeah, I'm just, I just wanted to emphasize that point. Yeah, that idea though, of like, never being that far from the serious stuff is something that's really, really observable, even beyond like a data level. I used to, like, consult with local newsrooms on how to report on things, and one of the big points I always tried to drill in was like, if you **** this up and you frame this the wrong way, it will have consequences. And if this is stepping in too much, we can cut them. We're talking about stopping at. This is literally the concept of stopping, but like the. Dylann Roof, Dylann Roof started his journey to radicalization by reading about Trayvon Martin in local news websites and local newspapers, and then Googling black on white crime. And his 1st result? The 1st that comes up? Yeah, was some. Exactly, and like it does not. It did not take long for him to go from. I am reading local news articles that are framed this specific way to I am killing people. That's not normal, of course. Like a lot of people are not going to be reading local news and then suddenly start to think this way. But like there is a concerted effort by some very specific people who. Would like to make that pathway easier. Yeah. Stochastic terrorism, yeah. It's well, interesting because we don't, we can't like, define it really as terrorism. What are they doing? They're really just, yeah, they're just saying things. They're just encouraging people to do things and like, they're not. Like, they're not doing anything wrong. We can't really call it terrorism. Yeah. The most dangerous people in this game are usually not the ones doing the shooting. Yes. Yeah. People behind the scenes trying to get people to go on these paths. In the first we're looking for people who are willing. And then so they see somebody reading local news maybe, and they they wanna make that pathway easier for it to go from local news to Dylan Roof, like, because that's not a normal jump, but they really want to find people who are looking at local news like that and then say to them. Like, well, OK, you look at this now, look at this, trying to tie this back to climate change. How do you see, do you see a similar pathway instead of instead of someone Googling? No. Black and white crime, like, Googling stuff about collapse and and and and, like, modern, modern civilization. Oh yeah, this striker. Yeah, Eric striker has been on about this. And I think that he's a I mean. Relatively like middle point that people get to like, fairly like. Average people do listen to things like Eric Stryker. Yeah. He's a very like, entry level explicit Nazi. Wow. Yeah. I and another thing in cut me off if we don't wanna go in this direction. But, you know, one of the biggest places where we see young people getting into conspiracy theories. Is tick tock. It is tick tock. That's where. That's where. Alright, tik T.O.K. Tik T.O.K. At times on take talk cut that cut that cut that we're not we're not telling that that is that is within the branches of the pod. Yeah. In the biggest entry point I've seen for a lot of things remains crisis. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Very point events. And The thing is this our upcoming climate scenario is going to give people an easier jumping on point. Well yeah that's so I mean we were talking about how like the the the theology of like like black on white crime and all this stuff they they're trying to create a situation that you know. The sense of urgency that justifies fascism, which on its own is under mythology of like, like black on white crime and all this stuff, they they're trying to create a situation that, you know, with the sense of urgency that justifies fascism, which on its own is unjustifiable and ridiculous. But when there's a crisis, right, people sign on. Climate change is the existential threat that they've been trying to artificially create, and they no longer have to. They now get to skip a lot of steps and save a lot of energy by just pointing at the fact that everything is literally on fire. And that like that that makes it so much quicker. So we have to do something. We have all the guns. Now would be a great time to join in on our power. This, this kid, this this is our Weimar era hyperinflation type ****. Yeah. I mean this is like when you're. When you can't get food from the grocery store anymore because of supply chain problems or when everything around you is on fire, you don't need like, a great you don't need a great replacement theory. No, you don't need anything. You don't need to say that the Rothschilds are behind it. You haven't just need to wait. You have enough things that you experience yourself. And it's much scarier when you can't. Because I can't. Like, like, how how do we how do we stop? Yeah, I can't ******* book that. It's harder. Well, it's literally on fire. It's it's. The problem and something needs to be done about it. I don't like your solution, but something needs to happen. What do you think on this path? And this is gonna get a whole lot more speculative for like what can we do to make people falling down those pathways? Less often like like what put it with the doomer **** yes, yes, that is that. That's one of the things we're trying to do on the pod is make sure people do not fall, fall down the the doomer pathway cause, yeah this, that that does get people along down this path a lot like against like like against most types of extremism. Eco extremism is the most logical. Like you look at it and you say we need a radical change right now and that's correct. Just the way that they go about it is very, very different. That's why, like, you know, Eco fascism is very different. It's own type of eco extremism and there's green anarchy. That's a very different type of eco extremism. Like these are all. Different parts of something that almost has the same goals but wants to go about them very, very, very differently. And it's so easy to just look around and see how everything's on fire and think like the government's doing nothing about it. The government starts doing something about it, and then suddenly it's the state's too big. We're in communism, you know, so they all have, like, different goals. And it's very conflicting on how to, how to deal with and, like, even the the very different tactics between green anarchy and, you know, like fascistic extremism. They also will get two different angles, right? Like, you know, like you're, you're you're basic imprim wants a very different life than your you know, very, you know, very stepping in it pilled fascist, right? Yeah, I collapse can only benefit the right it can't. Collapse can only benefit the people who already have power, who are already able bodied, who already stocked up on guns, who already like. Yeah, that that does frustrate me with there being anarchists who are like rooting for the collapse because, yeah, you're not gonna win. Like you're not just gonna get you put behind a fence somewhere you're not going back or put on the wall. Yeah, well, they've got very strict ideas of which people count as human. And the goal of of majority of fascist movements is to, you know, purge the ranks of the people they see as lesser. And they have the week they have, they have very precise ideas about who they plan on letting survive the collapse. So let's, let's. I think it's time to start talking about and tell me if I'm taking this in the wrong direction. You know? What the ****? Can someone who's listening to this yeah, yeah. Recycle. No, stop recycling. It's all getting shorter. Shower. It's all getting buried in the Oregon Forest. Talked to Joe Biden. Just vote. Voted away. Voted out. Yeah. No, let me like what could you, like start local. Find a local group. Find local. Find a local. Direct Action Group investigate that group and see who is behind it. But find start locally. It has to start at the local level because when should the. I'm not gonna say I'm gonna say if the collapse comes or like orderly. No, not the collapse. But like local, local collapses there's can you with disasters. Yeah. Contagious disasters are gonna affect at the local level. No talk to your talk to your ******* neighbors neighbors talk to your family like you try to get your family on these paths that lead to helping your neighbors instead of. You know, making friends with the church militia. Yeah. Before you buy a gun, learn how to ******* garden. Yes. Yeah, but buying a gun and that sort of thing is is good. It's good to know how to use firearms. Basic emergency preparedness, yes. But learn. Learn how to put on a tourniquet. Learn how to feed yourself. Learn. Learn how to grow some ******* food. Learn how to cook that ******* food. Get knife back. All that comes before, like, you get to be fallout character or something. Yeah. Two big things you want to find. Oh yeah. And. Individual first aid kit. You can buy them online. You can buy them stuff and gun stores. You can buy, you can buy them in like some pawn shops. Yeah, I like North American rescue or North River rescue. I'm sure we'll talk what I text more in the pod. Yeah, well, there are. Look, there are two big things. One, we all have a moral obligation to consistently counter the black pill doomer ****. Everything is coming to an end like it doesn't have to. That's optional. Like, we we things are going to get bad, but there's degrees of bad. Degrees are bad. We can stop it from being. I mean civilization of great, we don't need civilization to end like that can be done. Step two, we also have an obligation to counter the individualist stuff and and and focus her efforts more towards towards community and relationships. And that is so, so important because every idiot that's going to buy a gun and have a bunker, not only it's not going to make it, but it's going to screw the rest of us. Like this has to be a communal effort and almost civilization thing like we do need the civilization to change, like we need human society as we lay out we as has a lot of problems. I understand people's critiques of human civilization. But we often still need a society. But yeah, we we need we need places that, you know, people are going together and people, you know, provide the things that we have. I noticed that that can be a loaded word on certain political circles. So I'm not, you know, we're not getting into like civilization theory and that, that kind of anything. Yeah, I was gonna say, I would argue any ideology or ideas, just the boogaloo that kind of hypes up a collapse is generally one you should stay away from. Anything that makes the collapse sound like a makes it sound sexy. It does. Personal story as I think it's important to remember. Like if there was some massive civil conflict that happened, I think the people who would suffer the most are the non combatants as we will talk about trying to deal with it. Yeah yeah yeah as you will talk about it all coming episode of terrorism bad. We'll do plugs to the end hold put the gun back in your pants, hold yourself together. I was talking about historical precedent earlier, about things we've seen in the past with collapses and how people with guns and people who with training end up being the ones who gain power. Something that like, I was specifically reading about that was like the Rwandan genocide. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it was just the what, three months where most of the Tootsie people were wiped out. There are conflicting numbers. So I'm not gonna specifically say any, but you know, the more recently, like this year, earlier this year was only when Rwanda admitted what it was that it was a genocide and. The people, the armed forces were the ones who became. Like the the leaders and the they were backed by the government. Good thing that can't happen in America. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like. It can't happen here though, yeah, no, it cannot. We are we are immune to this in our response of the world called it will not happen here. But the other thing is look at where you get your information from. Seriously, no matter who you are, take a long hard look at who you get your information. If you're on the left, Mint Mobile offers premium wireless starting at just 15 bucks a month. And now for the plot twist. Nope, there isn't one. Mint Mobile just has premium wireless from 15 bucks a month. There's no trapping you into a two year contract. You're opening the bill to find all these nuts fees. There's no luring you in with free subscriptions or streaming services that you'll forget to cancel and then be charged full price for none of that. For anyone who hates their phone Bill, Mint Mobile offers premium wireless for just $15.00 a month, Mint mobile will give you the best rate whether you're buying one or for a family. And it meant family start at 2 lines. 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And get the feel of nature so that you come to be fascinated, then you come to want to understand it, and then you come to love it, and at that point you want to protect it. And then we'll come to the sort of healthy world that I envision as a good future for us. And the rest of life on this planet. Listen to amazing wildlife on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. So by now we imagine that you've seen the theories on Tik T.O.K. You maybe even heard the rumors, your friends and loved ones. But are any of the stories about government conspiracies and cover ups actually true? The answer is surprisingly or unsurprisingly, yes. For more than a decade, we here at stuff they don't want you to know have been seeking answers to these questions, sometimes their answers that people would rather us not explore. Now we're sharing this research with you for the first time ever in a book format, you can pre-order stuff they don't want you to know now. It's the new book from us, the creators of the podcast and video series. You can turn back now or read the stuff they don't want you to know. Available for pre-order now, it's stuff you should read books.com or wherever you find your favorite books. If you're special, actually special that you're on the left, you know, if you wanna hear about something that's happening in an area, look at the people who are actually on the ground reporting that people don't just rely on, like news aggregators, especially on Twitter. Yeah, seriously, no, not really. There's been a lot of bad, very bad faith news anchors on Twitter who are posing as leftists. This has been a huge problem in 2020. Even leftists who just don't do their due date or just or just do a very bad job. People who call themselves like counter extremism or counter terrorism researchers. And they are really talking about Antifa. They say that they are kind of extremism researchers and they pose that way and they look sometimes like they could be, sometimes like they're not. They're not, but like, you know, very varying degrees of like legitimacy, but like they focus only on. Like the left wing stuff they don't think about, they don't see what the actual like. It has to be this idea of like keeping it balanced right, like not making it just like a far right issue, which I would argue I think a lot of other people would, that this kind of stuff is more concerning. The FBI issue and there is like merit definitely to looking at sure left acceleration something which is not solution came from Marxism for the record like left accelerationism is not talking about anti fascists but. Yeah, that's really not time to get like no, but like, I mean, but it does let left accelerations will be will be its own effort. But what what some people do posing as? You know people who have credibility and are able to. Kind of sway opinion. They are not really doing what they say they're doing. They're really just. Trying to shift the narrative from of of racially motivated violent extremism, which is a big obviously issue regarding to being like BLM is racially motivated violent extremism and they want to push that narrative further and further. I think let's let's let's, let's let's kind of probably start to like wrap up and say our final thoughts on you know, this whole, this whole topic. I know we we didn't, we didn't, we did not, we did. We did not get to talk about like ecodefense very much anyone. Thoughts on that and how they see it kind of growing and how they see the states response to it that might be worth briefly mentioning but yeah it's kind of, it's kind of go around in a circle and give kind of everyone's, you know final thoughts on the on the subjects. I think collapse is is bad and I think that. Well, I mean, that's my main, my main thing, but anything that's appealing to you? And on like an ecological level that's collapsed related to something you should be very wary of and I think you should be very wary of like at generally everything. I feel like that's kind of like a butchered, yeah. Be be careful about everything. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I guess in my opinion, that you have total collapse is very misleading because it's easy and disasters don't work like that. You're you're not gonna suddenly reset. One day everything is going to suck and you're going to need to fight for whatever semblance of a society that you want to see in the world. Talk to your ******* neighbors. You know, the people in your city, in your neighborhood. There are people doing good **** in whatever city town you live in, most likely. If not, you can start it. Look at your local mutual. Made network. Look at the people who are taking action around and get involved. Seriously. All you know. It could be going out into a park Saturday mornings and just like giving out food and talking to the people who are most affected. Talk to people seriously. I mean, everyone's a person you need to talk to. Touch grass if you talk to people. Yeah. If you need like the most basic thing to start on any sort of mutual aid work, try to find a food not bombs chapter in your area. Yes, they're well organized, they're easy to join it. You don't have to put on block and fight a cop. It's yeah, it's a good entry point and it's it's great. It's great training for this, for disaster relief. Yes. If you have money and you wanna help, seriously, just give cash to unhoused people on the street. Give money. Give money to people, give money directly to people. My last thoughts are just that I think the idea of collapse, or whether actual collapse themselves, environmental or otherwise, will always be something to rally behind. Like it is always a an entry point, as well as motivator from from all, for all sides, from all sides. But it's like when these things become very salient, like was mentioned before, when they're outside of your door, that's when you know. That's when, like, the ideology kind of hits the pavement, like what is actually going to play out, what is actually going to happen and how that's going to affect people. It's very real. So building community, you know, building connections. And just understanding you know who is in your community is probably one of the most important things. Uh, yeah. The idea of collapse is a romantic and ridiculous notion. Come up with people who are like, really into, like apocalyptic thinking and the version of themselves that they get to be the main character. So first and foremost, take care of each other. There are a lot of people out there who want to manipulate you and want to change the way you think about things, and they really, really want you to buy in to the end times. And you don't have to, because you're smarter than that. Yeah, it's it's not hopeless. We really have to move away from hierarchical thinking. Our society really incentivizes hierarchical thinking. Like you're saying toothpick like we. We really need to just be focusing on people, like if things people, because you know, somebody doesn't have to. You know. Earn. You know, respect and earn humanity. For some reason we try and make it seem like that, but people are people. People are in different circumstances because of. Usually because of just the way that the world is and. Yeah, you need to just, you need to organize locally, you need to help your own people and. Stay away from the Internet. ****. Don't stop. Don't stop posting as I'm as. Stop posting even though I will keep doing it because I'm because I'm the good poster and who wants who wants to plug the pod? You are. Follow at terrorism, bad extremism and conspiracies and conspiracies in popular media. And we look at it from the perspective of people who study this and say, did this succeed in portraying these things or did it, as more often does, cause problems, completely fail and cause us all personal problem become propaganda and you're like, did you make terror propaganda or did you make good media about terror? That is a thin line, Emmy. Such a thin line made a career out of it. There's there's the thin terror line. Yeah, do whatever. Plug your fantastic group. Yeah, absolutely. I'm with you can read anything I read at antihate.ca and we do just general reporting on far right extremism in Canada as well as infiltration. Five guys. Ohh. And I also host a podcast called The Unusual Show. Yeah. If you wanna keep up to date on extremism in Canada, their group is one of the is probably the best one around right now. In my opinion, the largest and yeah. And and you, you, you do you do very good work. You keep your eye on my home country where my family lives. So thank you for that and I'm very happy to to be talking with you guys in the beautiful woods where we have no cell service so we can't post and that's good and we're going to continue doing that and stop using this microphone. Goodbye. Death and terrorism that the podcast. With that, that wraps up the Terrorism Roundtable forest discussion episodes. Thanks for listening to all of us rant about our specific weird niche focuses and hopefully trying to have it within the useful context of climate change. You can follow me at hungry Bow tie, you can follow the the podcast happen here, pod and Cool Zone Media on Twitter, and I believe Instagram can follow some of the researchers. They interviewed on their podcast at Terrorism Bad, so that wraps up this discussion. Thanks for listening. See you later in the podcasting verse the pod verse. OK, goodbye. Here's to the Great American settlers, the millions of you who settled for unsatisfying jobs because they pay the bills and you just kind of fell into it and you know, it's like, totally fine, just another few decades or so and then you can enjoy yourself. Of course, there is something else you could do if you got something to say. You could, I don't know, start a podcast with spreaker from iheart and Unleash your Creative freedom and spend all day researching and talking about stuff you love. And maybe even earn enough money to one day tell your irritating boss as you quit and walk off into the sunset. Anyway, I'm no settler. I'm an explorer. Spreaker.com that's a SBREAKER hustle on over today. Hello and welcome to our show. I'm Zoe Deschanel and I'm so excited to be joined by my friends and castmates, Hannah Simone and Lamorne Morris. To recap our hit television series New Girl. Join us every Monday on the welcome to our show podcast, where we'll share behind the scenes stories of your favorite New Girl episodes, reveal the truth behind the legendary game True American, and discuss how this show got made with the writers, guest stars, and directors who made the show so special. Fans have been begging us to do a New Girl recap for years and we finally made a podcast. Where we answer all your burning questions like, is there really a bear in every episode of New Girl? Plus, each week you'll hear hilarious stories like this at the end when he says you got some Schmidt on your face. I feel like I pitched that joke. I believe that I feel like I did. I'm not 1000% I want to say that was I? I tossed that one out. Listen to the welcome to our show podcast on the iHeartRadio App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's the problem? I me? I'm a problem. Welcome to. It could happen here. The show where I'm a problem? I'm on vacation legally. You're not on vacation. Allegedly legally, but OK. Inshallah I'm drunk. Uh, Garrison, you're in charge now. Figure it out. Great. Hi. It's well, it could happen here. Today we are talking with somebody. If you've listened to the past two episodes, you should actually know Theo, who is a journalist and researcher. And we are going to be discussing plans for an upcoming rally in Washington DC that's has a lot of that seems good. Yeah. This is the bad things. Never happened when? Yeah. What happened in DC? What happened last time? What happened last time they did this? I don't. I I historically, yeah. This is a. This is a bad things never happened when? Yeah. What happened in DC? What happened last time? What happened last time I did this? I don't. I I historically only pay attention to things that happen after May and before December. So I'm unaware of anything bad ever happening in DC well, something. That stuff happened there. You wanna keep? Last time I got it got a little spicy. OK, you try spicy, but it's not like they tried to overthrow the government. Murder elected leaders, right? That is what they are. Just having too much fun. Yeah, they got these boys. They were proud of their boys. A little carried away building all of the building. That big hanging contraption. Whatever. It's called the gallows. Gallows? Yeah. Anyway, we're talking. Theo, do you want you want to introduce yourself? Yeah. Hey, guys. I'm Theo. I list. Searcher, I'm based out of Virginia, allegedly. Allegedly, I end up covering a lot of events in DC because of that. And yeah. That's my plans for this weekend. Yeah. Do you wanna, do you wanna give us like an overview of what rallies in DC have been like the past, let's say, like the past year? Like, yeah, let's live. Has it been good just for background? Yeah, so, like, pretty much immediately post election as the whole kind of stopped, the steel thing got kicked into gear. On November 14th, there was a rally in DC. And then there is one December 12th and then there is finally one, as most people are probably aware, on January 6th. January 6, you know, obviously got the bulk of the media coverage, but November 14th and especially December 12th were very violent situations in general. Proud boys, General Chuds, a bunch of oath keepers and three percenters. Bunch of peoples confused me. Maws and Pat Paps showed up, would kind of wander around the side. Yeah, yeah, they did. Yeah. Pretty, pretty ****** **. I I know some people who were there when they did and it's, I don't know, it's sad. Like I were dark. It's really bleak. I was there with the people that you know, Robert. Good. Yeah. So you. I mean that. It's just, it's so *******. I don't know the extent of the disinformation, right? It's hard when you're talking about this, like, express a lot of sympathy for some of these people. And I'm not sympathetic towards their aims. I'm not trying to do the New York Times, like, let's talk to the Trump voter down the street, but like. A lot of them are just like they're ******* dumb people who bought into some ******** and it it destroyed them and their relationships with their families and in some cases cost them their lives and like. You don't have to sympathize with them to be like, yeah, that's bleak as **** you know? Yeah. And I think you see that with the DC rallies really more so than like, a Portland Proud Boy event, for example. That is not at all a gathering of, like, the masses. That's that's a specific group of pieces of ****. Yeah. Yeah. And like, you'd have absolutely like, units of proud boys or oath keepers. We had three percenters, some local Virginia militias, and they kind of be wandering around. During the day itself, you'd normally see like speakers. Alex Jones was there, got to meet him. That was fun. Ohh good. That's always a pleasure meeting Alex. No, Alex. He's a great guy. Fun. He's his neck. It's hard to exaggerate how he is just as red in person. He's so red, and as a guy who's good at strangling seems like he would be hard to strangle. Oh, nearly impossible. Like that's so big. It's such like, it's like a ******* train car. Like it's ridiculous how big that man's neck is. Look, yeah, most people aren't hard to strangle Alex Jones. Would be. That's not praising him, that's just being honest. Great. So during the day there would be speakers, you know, Alex Jones, and you kind of see people split up into whatever their specific brand of ******* is. There's like groups of nerdy looking groypers. There were some trad cats wearing robes. Those guys were fun. Minutes. But yeah, a lot of it, you know, confused like boomers on Facebook and kind of a Roberts point. Like, I I normally didn't go, you know, wearing press credentials because I value knives being outside of me and not inside of. Yeah, it's it's good to not get stabbed. Most people appreciate that. Yeah. Yeah. It's one of my favorite things. And so I get to like talking to these people, especially the older ones, because I take the metro into the city, and they are. I mean. You're just confused old people who've gotten in over their heads. But yeah, then like, the sun would set and that's when the proud boys would really start. Uh, getting into ****. November 14th, they stabbed. I don't know if I'm remembering this correctly, so feel free to Fact Check me, but I believe it was two people. On the 14th they cracked a girl's skull and then on December 12th. They stabbed one other person and Jeremy Bertino got delayed on the street he shared. Did he shared it? And the ******* DA elected not to prosecute because that was the clearest case of self-defense I have ever seen in my life. So, like, like, the dude literally tried to flee three times. He drew his knife after. By the third time, he was blinded by having a shirt pulled and assaulted by a group. He had no other choice. Yeah, yeah, he did. Exactly what you're supposed to do in that situation. And repeatedly tried to flee in what he did. And he stabbed a ************. And you can't I I can't. He did nothing wrong in my in my opinion, the DA's opinion, yeah, yeah. We're all probably better off for it. But yeah, there's this kind of established. There was this established sort of cycle of. Show up a bunch of weird Republican politicians that you've never heard of before. Give speeches. You go and kind of wander around and then the proud boys come out and they **** around. And sometimes other groups too, like January. The night before January 6th, there were people from NC 131 who were hanging out, trying to cause trouble, getting in altercations, all their normal ****. And so, yeah, there's this kind of like general mix of groups. January 6th shifted the paradigm on that a lot. And I think that's the big thing for this weekend is we don't really know what it's going to look like. Yeah. Can you talk about kind of what has kind of the event promotion looked like from the right, like what have they, what messages have they been putting out to promote this event with? So yeah, a lot of, like, the bigger groups have been fairly explicitly saying, like, don't go officially, unofficially is a bit of a different story. And in fairness, it's worth noting that prior to the the Unite the right rally in Charlottesville, the proud boys were saying don't go and an awful lot of their most violent members were at Unite the right in Charlottesville. You know it some, some of this is a plausible deniability game. Yeah. Like the official proud Boys Telegram channel was like, ohh this is, I mean in different words, we're pretty much like, this is a honey pot, this is a trap. This is an op don't go. But also like, we've seen activity that really suggests otherwise, whether it's like smaller, more local groups saying that they want to go, or streamers and journalists using the word lightly to who have pretty close. Relationships with these groups hiring extra stringers for the weekend or looking like they're preparing to report on something big. Yeah, the kind of the, I know we've talked a little bit online and with some of our colleagues and there's definitely a a mixed. A mixed mixed opinion on how big the events going to be and who's all going to be there and what kind of their goal is, which makes kind of everything. All the more tense because, you know, it's almost easier to, when we know what it's going to be like, we like, we have a good grasp of what's going to happen. And this, we're not really sure. Do you, do you know, has there been any kind of response from like, local DC officials, like, like law enforcement or anything about what they're going to do at this gathering? So I did see Capitol police is planning to put the fence back up. Probably a good idea. Yeah. Yeah. Which, like, we'll cover the capital, but there's also a problem. The fence going up, which is the back of the fence, goes right up to the end of the Black Lives Matter Plaza in DC which has been used as kind of a rallying point for anti fascist activists. And when that fences up, it's just. It's a funnel. The so it goes like, this isn't a visual medium. There's a street, and that's where Black Lives Matter Plaza is, and there's only two exits. And both those exits lead to hotels that proud boys and chuds love to stay in. So what happens almost without fail is people go and hang out in the Plaza, you know, chuds come down the streets, please form a line, and it's pretty much a premade kettle. Right. So that's like, not good. It's good for the capital, but it's not good for the people that will be on the ground. Yeah, because we they're also, as is most of these events, there has been some organizing locally and even, you know, antifascists from around kind of the country trying to like. Put out advice and feelers and like what to do for this specific gathering. And I know there's been, there's been a decent amount of, you know, there's there's always like debate and conflict of around how much to show up, where to show up. You know how proactive people should be. But because this is the first big rally since J6, feel like there's a lot of people. Feel it's much more important and like the people have like, you know this, there's like there's like a heightened sense around the specific thing. Do you know like how many people are kind of roughly planning to show up on like the anti fascist side? It's really hard to tell. DC antifascist actions I've seen, you know. A couple dozen people in block. Towards close to 100 I would. From what I've heard, the kind of main counter demo that's happening is definitely less radical. And it's kind of trying to establish sort of a community space thing. Uh, so I would say, I don't know, expect around. 40 to 50 like people who are there to throw hands, yeah, and a lot more people who are just kind of there. I mean, it's it's this, it's this thing we saw. I was, I was in DC for unite the right two. You know, the second rally. And it it it didn't turn into much of a thing, you know, I think because of the the preparation, the expectation, and I guess I'm interested in if you think I'm wrong on this. But my current expectation is that maybe that might be the most likely outcome because because of the degree of the unexpected event already occurred and was awful, I I'm not expecting anyone will be given free leash. You know, yeah, I could definitely see that sort of unite the right two scenario playing out, especially because it is very similar like there was this massive shocking event that kind of yeah. Everyone's attention, yeah. And so then people will. I think the only big difference is like in the aftermath of unite the right you kind of saw at times a misguided media focus, but still a media focus on anti fascist activists as playing a unique role when you didn't have that for January 6th. And I think that's that's really one of my bigger worries is less so. Kind of clashes between chuds and anti fascists. We see someone, they see the people who killed Ashley Babbitt. When the DC police look at. These chuds. They're the people who. Beat someone beat one of their coworkers to death. And you know, like there's capital police, not same as DC Metro police, but like. In the minds of both these groups, that doesn't really matter. And I I worry about the tension there. I like. I don't care if they Mace each other. You know, if the proud boys and cops Mace each other, then that's a great day for me. But if it escalates further, and. You know, we're seeing that. More and more the past was it the past two? Kind of major right wing rallies in the Pacific Northwest. I've had shots fired. Yep, Yep, Yep. One it every. Every recent PNW protest has involved gunfire. Yeah, and like the the one the August 22nd one had. I I guess, I guess you could call it a legitimate change of brief exchange. Yeah, yeah, a casual gunfight. I mean, the the start of it was not legitimate. The right winger who fired was not legitimate. But the the two people on the left who were responded were doing so in self-defense now, right? What happened a couple of weeks later? From the video that's come out was not self-defense. It was a guy shooting at somebody pursuing them from like 50 feet back. You know that it was not legally what you would call self-defense for certain. Yeah and that kind of the precedent that that set. Uh, which I I think it's happened few enough times that we can't really say that it's it's the norm or anything like that. But it's still, it's an escalation, it's something absolutely is. Did like if that, if that had happened in 2017 when you know at the right happened like. That would have been unprecedented. It's very frightening. You know it and and it it should be. It doesn't matter what you think about the morality of of shooting tiny, you know, or whatever. Exchanges of fire. Becoming more common? Is a threat to everybody and it is something that should concern everybody. Yeah, I mean, it reminds me a lot of, and this was kind of the impetus of the first season of it could happen here, but like the early days of something like the Syrian civil war where it went from protests to. Exchanges of gunfire to you know what it is now? Yeah. Do you think DC specific gun laws will make gunfire in DC a little bit less likely? Do you think I know like still like the police always have that capacity if they feel you know, if if they choose to, but more specific on like the right between people, I don't know. It's like, you know books are going to show up or whatever. What kind of talk do you see around firearms? So yeah, kind of. Just from experience, I think my worry with DC's gun laws is. Only one side will be armed every every time that chuds come to DC. I mean, they are. Obviously carrying. I mean every single one of them is print is printing. You can tell that they have firearms on them, they don't really try to hide it and none of them have ever. I mean, I guess apart from Tario getting arrested for. Illegal magazines like none of them have really faced any consequences for that. And the general fear among people on the left is, well, even if I do. Comment I carry for self-defense if I get arrested for something unrelated, that'll enhance whatever charges I get. Yeah. No, it's sketchy and it's. I don't. I'm not convinced in the situation DC is in specifically that showing up with a ******* firearm is is the right call. You know, I'm not in this business to lecture people, but I'm not convinced that's going to help. In the Pacific Northwest, we've seen situations where people with weapons as on the 22nd. Defended themselves and others, and we've seen situations in which people on the web with weapons on the left escalated things. So it's not a, it's never a 0 sum game. You know it's not. It's not a simple issue, right gun is a neutral tool. Yeah, and I don't want to like, I don't want it to come off. Like, I'm encouraging, you know, every person in block to show up with a long gun. Good Lord like that. Because that would be a ******* disaster most likely. But also like. I I don't like the idea of, you know, looking at a line of proud boys or something and knowing every single one of these people has a gun and I do not. That's yeah, absolutely an imbalance of force that I don't like when thing if things do escalate, yeah, no, that's completely reasonable in my opinion. But yeah, I mean, I think the big thing is just there's so many unknowns. You know, we've never. Really, there's not much of a historical precedent for group tries to overthrow the government, group shows back up in DC. Months later, or elements of the same kind of ideology. Yeah, we just don't know. I mean, even like I think the unite the right two example is similar. But also like markedly different enough. That I don't know if it's an all-encompassing tool for like this is what it's going to look like, yeah. Is there any like specific players that you know is going to show up or or have like said that they're going to show up? So one that I kind of worry about is, oh, I'm going to get ******* tweets for this, *** **** it. So there's a group in Virginia that you may have heard of. BLM 7570. God, these guys. No. Yeah, I know what you're talking about. Yeah, they are based out of the Virginia Beach area. And they are the biggest pain in the *** ever they work with. They claim to be a Black Lives Matter organization. The local Black Lives Matter organizations have denounced them. They work with Boogaloo boys. They were very tight with Mike Dunn before he snitched and dropped off the face of the Earth. And then, yeah, they they come. And I don't like the idea of them coming to a town that is not familiar with them because like they come to Richmond, for example. And people are like, oh, there's Bill, I'm 757. We don't **** with them. But they come, you know, they come to a town or groups like this like NFC, the not, not ******* around coalition tried to come to DC and I, these groups that are going to be armed are going to want to escalate and are going to kind of try to slide in. To like a counter demo or. Stick around like the more left-leaning parts of the crowd and then could very quickly escalate things so they're one that I'm worried about. Some local Virginia militia movement players have been chatting about it. I haven't seen really that much in the way of like definitive. Statements that they're going to go. And those those guys don't really worry me. They're a bunch of nerds who like to play dress up in the woods mostly. But yeah, it's again, it's just like these kind of unknowns, yeah. So just like not knowing who's gonna show up and what they're gonna do and where will there be and yeah. Yeah, like. And this was a thing, definitely. It reminds me a lot of the first stop, the steel rally, where. We had more concrete groups saying we're going to be there. There's a lot more chatter about it on social media, but it was still kind of like, I don't know, like what range of the sort of right wing ideological spectrum will be here. Like, I know you know Q Anon you're queuing on, Uncle will be there. But like for example on November 14th. Jason Kessler was there, the organizer of Unite the right. I literally bumped into Jason Kessler. Ohh gosh. Like, I was walking and my shoulder hit him and I looked up and I was like, oh, sorry dude. And then I just kind of stopped and I was like, oh ****. I recognize you. Yeah, you. You're that famous ***** ** ****. Yeah. But yeah, so like, it's kind of that same thing where we don't, we really just don't. Have that much Intel, and it seems like, you know people with access to more streams of information than us, like the feds have been saying for. I guess a couple months now like we're monitoring this situation where. Like preparing to. Stop another January 6th, which take it with a grain of salt. It is the feds. But also like. Part of me, a lot of the worry I get from this is people that I know know more than I do. Reacting to it like Chudd streamers hiring stringers, feds saying like announcing months before that it's a situation that they're preparing for. A lot of people are very interested in what's going to happen. I think people are definitely preparing for a lot of different, different outcomes. And that makes any kind of resistance to it hard because you don't know if you're over, if you're over preparing, under preparing. You don't know if you'll have what you'll if your preparations are too aggressive or not aggressive enough. Yeah. Yeah. And always trying to like, you know, feel it out once you're there is more scary because once you're there in person, a lot of communications break down between other, you know, other activists. So that's what happened in, like, the last big rally in Portland is people try to, you know, change of plans once they got to the spot. And it kind of made everything a lot, a lot more. Challenging because it's hard to a lot of a lot of people in block don't have their phone on them. It's just it's hard to get rides, you know, any kind of any kind of impromptu organizing at the site. It's always going to be way more challenging than trying to figure this stuff out at home. And yeah, that's just kind of. I don't know it's I think I think the unite the right 2 background is useful for like a big event after you know a a previous event that had a lot of coverage and had a lot of talk about it because it had you know a disastrous outcome. And then I think looking at you know looking at November 14th and December 10th are also are also kind of valuable indicators of has there been any have you seen anything around the groypers or like any of the Fuentes crew. Showing up to this or they are they trying to, are they, are they trying to like keep good optics? I guess I as far as I've seen they're mostly trying to keep good optics around us that makes they also they also kind of fall into the category of like. People I'm not super worried about. Like some of them, yeah, but in like a street fight situation. In a street fight less. So yeah, I'm not worried about a groyper. Yeah. The most violent encounter I've ever had with a grouper was one that was probably 5 feet tall, following me around and calling me a soy boy for 30 minutes. Yeah. But what I'm more concerned about is, is graper is kind of following the incel terrorism tradition of, you know, skinny, skinny white guys getting access to weapons and then then doing something they're not going to any man with a gun is dangerous. Yeah. Yeah. They're not going to beat you. Yeah. Here. Finish what you were saying, Garrison. Yeah, I'm just saying, like, you know, all of all of the griefers I've seen, they're not going to beat me in a fist fight because they're all even even more, even more language because you're fast as ****. But yeah, and that and that. Yeah, yeah. I think that's kind of another thing that's it's always a possibility. These things, like I always say, like the worst possible outcome is someone, someone starts shooting like a firefight is always the worst. Or you just could go but with the. Were the optics surrounding this? I think there is definitely space for more extreme people. Specifically, more accelerationist minded people. To try to start something, to try to cause some ****. I mean, like I said, I'm in Virginia. I think of the Richmond gun rally. In our lobby day in what was that, 2019? 20 beginning of 2020. I I forget all time is a flat circle to me now, but the members of the base that were intercepted on their way to Richmond. Uh, I think about that situation and how. Other people and other groups that we will not talk about on pod. Could see an opportunity here, yeah and I think that's I think that's more likely happening in somewhere like DC than it is in Portland, right because in Portland we have a pretty good grip on who shows up and why they show up on the East Coast, the South NE SE they have a lot more groups with interest with you know obscure ideologies that are more thing more prone to those types of to those types of like more insurgent. Tax and I think people are on the West Coast, yeah. And I think another thing that kind of amplifies that is, like you said, like Portland has kind of an established infrastructure of chud *******. Sure, do it, you know. I mean, I I'm on the other side of the country and I know the familiar faces of Portland ********. And we we do have that to an extent, but. DC brings people from all across the country. I was meeting people on the metro from everywhere from Tennessee to Kansas to California. And when people are coming in from such a broad range of places, there's a lot more uncertainty. Yeah, well, I'm not sure. And anything else you want to mention about kind of what you expect at this rally and any, I don't know, general advice has since you've been at the past three versions. Yeah. So I mean, if you're in the DC area or you're nearby and you're comfortable with it and physically able to do so, I show up. The one thing that we do know for sure about these events is that. The more bodies we have, the less likely it is for people to be able to pray on. Someone walking home from work, or a houseless person just trying to sleep? Yeah, the more bodies that we have, the better it is. If you are either unable to come or you don't feel comfortable coming, I know that there will be jail support, mutual aid efforts, and Garrison. I can send you some links to local DC. Orgs. If you want to throw it in the show notes, sure. But yeah, just and if you're going to go, be prepared. Have. Have a buddy block up. Bring a bring an ice pack and get ready to party. Yeah, I think it's one of the things you mentioned is like more numbers helps in the case of. It's less likely they'll be like roaming attacks because that's what we've seen at a lot of these rallies is that sometimes they don't ever like, actually cause trouble at where people are, you know, like where the where the people are. They wait until people are walking away or going back to their car, or if there's no one like that, they just find some random person on the street. You know, we saw a lot of that in DC of proud boys just finding kind of people in the area that they thought looked like Antifa, quote UN quote. And then it's attacking them. So, you know, the. The less scattered people are, the less likely you'll get kind of those roaming attacks. Yeah, I think. I mean, it's always hard to speculate on the on an event that hasn't happened yet, but I believe by the time by the time this airs, it'll be happening tomorrow. So, Saturday, Theo, do you want to plug anything? Yeah, you can find me on Twitter at Theo Hanson. Theo with a 0. Listen to my podcast terrorism bad we look through portrayals of terrorism and extremism in popular media. See how it holds up to the real world. Trying to think of anything else. I'll be there on Saturday. I'll be live tweeting the event, but if I'm not live tweeting and good luck with that, dead or otherwise incapacitated, or I don't have cell service, one of the cell service is always horrible at these things. It's a constant problem. Yeah, yeah. They they were blocking signals on January 6th on the Capitol lawn. And when I stepped off, I had like 13 texts from all my friends that were like, hey, text me if you're still alive. Really hard to tell what's going on. You know when you're when you're like, whether or not it's like a cell signal problem or if it's somebody like targeting you in particular. It's frustrating, yeah. Alright, well thank you CEO. Thank you for giving us the rundown on Saturdays activities. I hope you don't get shot. Thank you. I hope I do not as well. That's my general feeling towards anyone who shows up on on the 18th in DC. I I hope you don't get shot. Do your best, yeah? And if you do get shot, know what to do about it. Well, yeah, have a have a have an iPhone. Have a track every minute. You know, have have some cell locks. Yeah, that's ideal, but not getting shot is better, so you cannot #1. Try not to get shot. Thanks for having me on, guys. Nice to meet you, Robert and Sophie, nice to meet you. You can follow us that happen here, pod, on Twitter, Instagram and at Cool Zone Media for all the things, and we'll be back on Monday. 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