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Hello, I'm Erica Kelly from the podcast Southern Fried True crime, and if you want to go from podcast fan to podcast host, do what I did and check out spreaker from iheart. I was working in accounting and hating it. Then after just 18 months of podcasting with Spreaker, I was able to quit my day job. Follow your podcasting dreams, let's break or handle the hosting, creation, distribution, and monetization of your podcast. Go to spreaker.com. That's spreaker.com. Hey there, it's Ebony Monet, your co-host for the San Diego Zoo's Amazing Wildlife podcast. In this special episode, we're speaking with Doctor Jane Goodall about the fascinating journey that led to her impactful behavioural discoveries on chimpanzees. It wasn't until one of the chimpanzees began to lose his fear of me, but I began to really make discoveries that actually shook the scientific world. Survive on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Sisters of the Underground is a podcast about fearless Dominican women who stood up against the brutal dictator Kapal Trujillo. He needs to be stopped. We've been silent and complacent for far too long. I am Daniel Ramirez, and I said Dominicana myself. I am proud to be narrating this true story that is often left out of the history books through your has blood on his hands. Listen to sisters of the underground wherever you get your podcasts. Here's to the Great American settlers, the millions of you who settled for unsatisfying jobs because they pay the bills. Of course, there is something else you could do. If you got something to say. Start a podcast with Spreaker from iheart and Unleash Your Creative freedom. Maybe even earn enough money to one day tell your old boss, hey, I'm no settler, I'm an explorer. Spreaker.com SPREAKERA salon over today. Executive producer Paris Hilton brings back the hit podcast how men think, and that's good news for anyone that is confused by men, which is basically everyone. It's real talk straight from the source. How men Think podcast is exactly what we need to figure them out. It's going to be fun, informative, and probably a bit scary at times because we're literally going inside the minds of men. Listen to how men think on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. When I was 18 years old, a nun at my high school was brutally murdered. Getting to the truth has opened a Pandora's box of secrets, exposing abuse of power and a world of lies at one Miami monastery. I mean the woman was stabbed 90 plus times. There's gotta be something else going on here. Listen to sacred scandal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to behind the police, a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to behind the police of behind the ******** special miniseries about, you know, the police in America, some of the most persistent ******** in our nation's long and ******* full history. I'm Robert Evans, the host and the the researcher and the writer, and my guest today is Jason Petty, better known as hip hop artist propaganda Prop. How you doing today? What up? What up? What up? Socially and emotionally? Prepared for this training. Awesome. Did you like how professional my introduction was? That was some NPR ****. Here's the thing, bro. Like you're you are unmatched in intros and transitions. There's nothing like this. Thank you. Want to be the voice? I wanna retrain yourself. Talk voice. And just continue to say you nailed it even when you didn't. Just even when I didn't. You nailed. Beautiful. I love. I will continue to point out when you **** it up and praise you when you don't. Like now. Wonderful intro, Robert. Very professional. Thank you. Thank you. Way better than that time I just shouted Hitler. That was that was a train wreck. Yeah, I didn't know what to do with that one. I just was. It was. Have you ever walked by like a wall of cords and just felt the need? Like I go like, especially like that stage somewhere, like in festivals, it's I gotta organize this. Yes. No. Or like, I'm gonna yank them all out. It's gonna happen. Yeah. It's like I'm holding my hand away. Like, I I I can't be backstage. I'm gonna yank one of these out. I feel like that was like you and like, the Hitler thing to where you're just like, yeah, don't say it. Don't say it. Don't say it. Oh my God. I want to say it. Yeah. Because you can't script an introduction, right? Like that's the first rule of of of broadcast as you can never script an intro. So we're we're left. With me winging it. So prop. Yesterday we talked about the origins of American police and with a focus on like, the slave patrols. And that is the thing, like online. Since kind of this whole uprising against the police began, that's the thing everyone's been focusing on that, like police came out of slave patrols. And that is very true for a huge chunk of American policing. Today we're going to talk about the other chunk because it was not just slave patrols, because a sizable chunk of American policing came out of a desire to suppress folks, number one that we today would call white, but at the time, kind of the people with money. Didn't really consider to be white. But also more than anything that came out of a desire to police labor, like the working class. Yeah. So today we're going to kind of hit that other side of the of the where cops come from. Divide. Yeah. So this is a. This is a lesson in intersectionality, guys. But it is right now. Yeah. And like all good lessons and intersectionality, it comes from, it includes people being racist when that's directly in opposition. To their needs and and actual benefit. Yeah. A deep seated oppression. Yeah. Headed oppression that's taken advantage of by the ruling class in order to continue to. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. And we going up north too, you know, they free up there, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, Lord. They're not. Yeah. Yeah. The north. The north. I mean, it was better than the Confederacy, but that's like saying yeah, like vomiting in the toilet is better than vomiting on your friend's. Or which like, yes, but it's both are not ideal as straight. Yeah. So you may not know this, but President John Fitzgerald Kennedy designated the week of May 15th to be National Police Week. I don't think we celebrated this year. Yeah, I was like, I never heard that. Yeah, I must have missed that one. During his speech announcing this, he stated that police officers had been protecting Americans since the birth of the United States. Now, we of course know that this is untrue. The 1st. Normal Police Department was started in Boston in 1838. And, you know, slave patrols existed earlier, but they sure weren't protecting people. Now, one of the inciting incidents that led to the creation of the Boston police, who, again, that's the first Police Department, was the Broad Street riot. And the basic story of the Broad Street riot is that a funeral procession of Irish immigrants in 1837 ran into a volunteer firefighting company of US born Protestants who are on their way back from fighting a fire and obviously, like now, I think. Most people, she's like, oh, you know, Protestants and Catholics, they'll just sort of like, you know, relatively mainstream Christian denominations. But you gotta remember, like, it was like a huge deal when JFK became the first Catholic president. People were like, is he gonna. Sorry, yeah, I was going to say, yeah, that's how like open to diversity and melting pot we are as a country that, like, it was a scandal that this fool was a Catholic. Like, yo, that's the you. That's just the other room of the same house. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you really want an idea of, like, how ****** ** America has been about diversity, like, we were, like, not even a decade away from putting a man on the damn moon. And JFK came to power and people were like, is he going to take secret Pope orders? Oh yeah. And the newsflash to every Protestant was like, you know, we was all Catholic until 500 years ago. I don't know if you know that, but we was all Catholic, you know. Yeah. It was. It's wild, yeah. So yeah, Catholics and Protestants back then had some real issues with one another. So this, this Irish funeral procession, like, runs into the middle of this Catholic or a Protestant firefighting company, and the two just start beating the **** out of each other. And all of this spills out into a riot that eventually involves 1/5 of Boston's population, which is like 15,000 people, which is still a pretty good size riot today. Yeah. Yeah. So ethnic tensions being what they were, the riot quickly turned into a race riot and Protestants burned and looted. The entirety of the heavily Irish Broad Street neighborhood. Just like Jesus would call him to. Yes, he was a big fan of burning and looting. Just burning, you know, you turn that you. He was like, hey, he flipped over the tables. He flipped over the tipple tables. Yeah, but those weren't like his homies tables anyway. Yeah. And what didn't he say? Burn the other cheek, something like that. Something might be missing? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, very, very taking their religion seriously here. So in decades prior to the the broad St. Diet merchants had been forced to finance their own guards to secure the transportation of their goods. Establishing police, which were paid for by the Commonwealth, shifted the burden for protecting capital off of capitalists and onto the community. But even prior to the establishment of the 1st police departments, law and order in the United States was primarily a for profit endeavor and not a matter of public safety. The Broad Street right was kind of used as an excuse for like, why we need a police force, but the tensions had been building and, like, frustration had been building and like, oh, we gotta pay to take care of our own ****. From, you know, the merchant class, so this was kind of an opportunity for them to get people on board now. As we covered in the first episode, most policing in the English speaking world prior to the 1800s was primarily a community affair. Enforcement of the law was done by members of the community who tended to rotate through shifts keeping order in their own towns. Public spirit is generally the term used as what was like the primary method of social control in those days rather than centralized authority. And that is kind of the thing that like I was just in the Seattle Autonomous zone or whatever you want to call it, you know, may not be really an autonomous zone. I don't think they've actually kind of firmly decided yet. Because the police got back in briefly. But like, public spirit is the primary manner of social control there. There's no centralized organization. There's no, like, even mass kind of votes because people are so distributed there. But there is kind of a broad public spirit of like, what if we don't have cops here? Right. Like, that's kind of the ideal idea. And that was kind of the way that it worked for a very long time in in in particularly, like, English speaking chunks of the of the world. Yeah. But but not just that. So yeah, this system began to fade out. It was like, oh, you know, as the kind of industrial age dawn and distinct communities that had been like, more or less like somewhat isolated, at least homogenized into cities and sprawling urban areas like, now, you know, we say London, but back in the day it was like a bunch of ******* towns and then a much smaller London. And then as they all turned into like, this big ******* metropolitan area of this public spirit fades. So historian Henry Pringle writes that by the 1700s, the legal system had formalized enough that its architects were, quote, confident that they could. By a system of incentives and deterrents, rewards and punishments, bribes and threats. So exploit human greed and fear that there would be no need to look for anything so nebulous and unrealistic as human or as public spirit. So that's kind of like the real dawn of a formalized law enforcement is, is things get big enough and these people are like public spirit. You can't really rely on it to do what I want it to do. And I'm the guy with the money. So we need to build a system of deterrence and rewards. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It scans. Yeah. Yeah, it scans, yeah. So gradually the. Yeah, it keeps scans. And I was also going to say, as a side note, the. And I hate. I I hate the very principle of what I'm about to say. Sure, but. At the old folks in the church would say it's true anyhow, uh, I absolutely love, like the Irish like culture. Oh yeah, because it's just so irreverent and like they just don't take themselves serious. Everything is sarcastic. Yeah, drinking and going to sing at parties and I'm just like you. It just, it's just your normal slang. Dial ball bag. How you doing? Like you call your homeboy a ball bag. That's a scrotum, fam. Yeah, that's what you refer to your friends as you for your friends and scrotum style ball bag. And it's like, look, I respect that so much as just somehow I respect. I respect him, alright? They're just ready to fight at any moment. Yeah, drink a lot, you know, I'm saying. And then when you got to America, you created your own hood. Like just the South Boston. Just southie. Irish. *****? Don't even don't even mess with your grey like your grandmother ready to scrap? Like, I respect that so much. Yeah, I love it. It's my favorite place to visit Ireland. I love the like, what you're talking about, like this idea that even with like, your elected leaders, like, you should be able to shout at him, right? That's kind of there's a bit of that in England, too. Like this idea that, like, we had a thing here and it happened in Minneapolis with Mayor Frey, where, like, he had to go out to this crowd and, like, when he said something, didn't like this crowd of thousands, like, told him to go the **** home. Yeah, and we had that in Portland with our mayor. Like, he showed up in the middle of this crowd to take questions and everyone just told him, like, you had the cops shoot at us a bunch and we don't like that, and you're a bad mayor and everyone just got to, like, yell at the mayor. And that's how it ought to be with all elected officials. They should have to stand in the middle of a crowd of their voters and get heckled when they **** **. It's that's great. Yes, every elected official should have to do some sort of like, open mic. Like, yeah, stand up. Just dive bar where you have to feel the heat, dude. My. It was my first few years of touring, like the heat of being like, OK, Listen. It's it's almost, it's it's 8:15. You know, I'm saying everybody's just pregaming trying to figure out who they're gonna hit on later. And I have to go up and rap for 15 minutes and try to convince this room to pay attention to me for I got 10 minutes of attention to Commission. Like that is the best school of Hard Knocks as like a live performer that anyone could ever. I feel like every mayor should have to do that. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Like this, the public, the whole public spirit. Thing. Yeah, obviously there's a lot of more people now. There's a lot more complexity you need, you need more than just public spirit. But this idea that, like, if everyone just kind of hates this dude, like, he should have to stand in the middle of them and either try to convince them that they're wrong or at least just take the ******* fire for all, right? If you could take that fire and or win some of us over, I would be like, you know what? Maybe, OK, maybe I was wrong, but maybe I was wrong about this dude. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, anyway, back to the ******* cops. So gradually, the profit motive. Became the central motivating force behind law enforcement. So kind of public spirit moves aside for we just pay people to do this **** and the change started at the level of the constable. Traditionally constables had been unpaid members of the community who took turns at the job. But most citizens came to dislike taking their turn as constable, especially since each turn involved A1 year unpaid period of working to enforce laws that were often very unpopular because there was like centralized state authority. It just there wasn't like super organized law enforcement. Like the king or whoever would make like a law that people didn't like, and then you would take your turn and you have to enforce that law. And that doesn't make you popular. No, which is was an issue with the system who was making the laws. So over time, deputies began to realize that the power of their office held other opportunities for profit. According to a paper on the development of private police by Stephen Spitzer of Northern Iowa University and Andrew School of the University of Pennsylvania's quote, once in office, the deputy soon found that profits could be gained from selling protective and investigative services or demanding. Rewards and fees. In return for recovered goods, deputies often made such a profitable trade of their offices that many were prepared to serve for nothing. So this goes from, like, this ugly job that you take because you have to to a job that, you know, because you kind of find a way to you kind of, you kind of find a side hustles your position, allows you to exploit. And then it it becomes really profitable even though it's not a salary for the. Yeah. Yeah. And so you're kind of freelance police at this point, right? Like, that's the gig. So this suited early local governments in England and her colonies pretty well. Because these, these governments and these peoples like just because of an aspect of the culture felt a deep resistance to the idea of paying for a salaried police force. Individual constables who were successful in their jobs could sell their services to the highest bidder, augmenting their official duties with what was essentially private security work. The system made it over to the North American colonies. During the first decades of the 1800s. New York City police officers were noted as being more, quote private entrepreneurs than public servants. The same was true in Boston before and after the formal establishment of their Police Department. Spitzer and skull write quote, since the main concern of the victim was restitution, they function then as personal injury lawyers operate today on a contingency basis, hoping to get a large part, perhaps half of the proceeds. So cops would kind of hang around like a like a bad lawyer. They would wait to see, oh, somebody just got robbed. Somebody just got beaten up, somebody's store got broken into. And then they would show up and be like, hey, if I get that stuff back and I have half of it like that was those were the first cops, like, yeah, in the north and stuff. Yeah. Before there's like really police departments, you know? So like. OK, so when you it's so crazy when you think of it in context, which is like the best thing to do as somebody that really wants to understand humans, it's like, can you blame them for being like, you know, maybe, maybe we should centralized this. What if like, yeah, kind of like maybe we should come up with some sort of department that maybe they're above this, you know? This kinda works it great. Yeah. It sucks, you know? I'm saying so you're like, hey, it's maybe, I don't know, maybe it's a bad, bad idea the way we're doing this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's definitely like you, you, you kind of transition away for everybody, taking turns as the cops to like cops being basically mercenaries. And people are like, mercenaries kinda suck. OK, you got a fan of this? Strike two guys like, yeah, you know, yeah. So yes, you're you're absolutely right. Like you can't totally blame people for being like, well, what if we tried to, like, make this a a more official thing? Yeah. Yeah. Like we can, like identify him. And it's not just like it's not just like my neighbor Dave down the street that I can just trust this fool. Like I don't trust Dave. You know, saying, yeah, you know, it's a shady *** ** * *****. He's kind of shady, man. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. Yeah, this was yeah. Most police in this. Worked as actually not even uniformed thugs, just kind of thugs protecting the businesses and streets that paid them. Or as private detectives hunting down stolen goods or other criminals on a contingency basis. The system provided no real benefit for the average person and only marginal benefit for the capital holding class. See, this was back before the dawn of the industrial economy and people weren't used to the idea of. Working all of the time because that was their job. Farm Labor was seasonal, and skilled laborers usually didn't work more than they needed to in order to live comfortably. Law enforcement officers kind of work the same way. So these people would take enough jobs to maintain a decent lifestyle, and then they had enough money, they'd stop working. So suddenly, the concept we were like, yeah, I'm not gonna do anything in the next couple of months. Like, I'm good. I had a big case. Like, sorry, you need help. But, like, I why would I work right now? I don't need to. And I'm not going to work if I don't need to. Yeah. Yeah. So to make matters worse, at least for the business owning. Glass the way bounties were structured actually discouraged police from catching criminals, historian James F Richardson writes in his history of the New York Police quote. The police reports published in the newspapers in these years are filled with accounts of instances in which the property was returned with financial rewards for the police officer, but in which the criminal was not brought to justice. The officer received a larger fee or reward for recovering the stolen property than he would have received for bringing the criminal in. Often the arrangement was consummated even before the robbery or burglary took place. An officer would be Privy to a crime and after its Commission would endeavor to recover the stolen property in return for a liberal ward. Part of the reward would then go to the thief as a share. Sheesh. See, this is the. This is the shadow is so like, you. You mean to tell me by design the cop was crooked? Like, yeah. Just yeah. It's just baked into the I am incentive. Like, listen to what? Listen what? What Professor Evans just taught you. You know, I'm saying I am incentivized to cheat. It is better for all of us. Yeah, if I just cheat and y'all think. And that's what's crazy about, like, here's here's why, like, with just just pure unchecked. Capitalism does to your brain is you would think, Oh yeah, you just it's just competition, you know? I'm saying like, hey man, hey dude, if you get my stuff back. I just want you to know, like, I'll pay you more if you get my stuff back. You were good at your job. I'm just gonna pay you more for it. It's like, well, I don't know, man. Maybe there's a way I can get both. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What have I just work with the guy that's gonna steal your stuff. Like that way we all stuff. He wants money. Yeah. Yeah. Here we we all win in that situation. You got your stuff back? I made some money. Like it just yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's great. Great. Like a tax on rich people by, I don't know, not necessarily poor people. Well, maybe the thieves were, but like, yeah, it's whatever. So up until the mid 1800s, policing in the cities of the American N had been a fundamentally reactive endeavor. Officers went off in response to specific criminal acts rather than, say, seeking to prevent said acts. You know, there were some exceptions. Sometimes people will be like, well, let's hire some officers to like, watch this neighborhood where we have a bunch of shops or whatever. But generally it was pretty reactive and as the first major Metropolitan Police departments. Established in the 1830s and 40s, this started to change. These new police departments focused on the dangerous classes. You remember hearing that? Here we go the first episode. Yeah, they're dangerous. Classes were largely made-up of poor immigrants who were seen as being fundamentally criminal. The idea began to spread that by patrolling, surveilling, and deploying force against these populations, police could stop crime from occurring now. Whether or not someone counted as a member of a dangerous class had an awful lot to do with whether or not that person also. Counted as white, the full subject of what whiteness meant in the North in this period of time is much too complicated for a series that's already going to be complicated. What is important to understand is that a lot of groups again that we all lump in as white today weren't really white yet during the mid 1800s. This included at varying points, Germans, Italians, Jews of all, national origins and of course the Irish. Yes, now. Again, as I noted in the last episode, talking about this is is complicated. Or the fact that a lot of modern racists, or at least kind of people who like to deny the suffering of black people, will claim that like, oh, it was it just as bad for the Irish and it absolutely was not. But also anti Irish bigotry was still a ************. Like, there was a lot of that going around. No one. Yeah, it's from, from, from. As someone from the black community, I'm like, OK, no one's arguing that the Irish were not. Not treated unfairly. It was terrible. Yeah. They went through. It's not. Yeah. Come on, guys. It's not. It was not the same. Yeah. It's like, you know, I like, I am a, you know, cisgender heterosexual male and. When? My wife got pregnant. No, part of me said. We're pregnant. Yeah, that just like, I can't stand when husbands say that, yo, we're pregnant. I'm like, no, we're not, you not. You understand? I'm saying she is doing it while I'm in there with her. Know you are not. I remember standing on the side of the room when my wife was about to go in labor being like. Women are magical superheroes because they I don't know, a single male on earth that could do this. So I'm like, no, no, man, it is not the same, OK? It's not the mall. Same. We are not pregnant. Shut your mouth. All I gotta do is go get weird. ******* ice cream and and Doritos. That's my job. Go get some ice cream and Doritos. She is cooking a human. We are not pregnant. So in the same way I'm like, look, OK, yeah, we both going through this experience. I'm tired too. I gotta get up and, you know, feed this child. It's three in the morning. I'm tired, but I am not the child's. Food source the the the milk ain't coming out of my ****. Is coming out of her ****. It is not the same, just it's. And it's like, that's not a diss. I'm not just it's just it's just not the same. Like, let it not be the same. You know? Yeah. It's OK that different groups suffer in different ways. It's even in the same place they. Yeah, we we can we can we can explore the ways in which the suffering is unique and also the ways in which it has common roots of origin without conflating things. I'm not gonna play the oppression. Epics like that's what I'm not gonna do. Not playing the oppression epics anyway. Yeah, we're talking a lot about how police departments developed out of the desire for the capital holding classes to publicly fund the protection of their ****. But also the increasing populations and racial mixtures of American cities had a big impact on it too. Race riots became increasingly common in the 1830s and 40s as long as well as other riots. There were just a **** load of riots in this period of time, and all this unrest helped sell the growing middle class on the idea of police departments. Policing also offered offered an opportunity for non white. Groups of white people like the Irish to gradually gain social acceptance. The first Irish policeman in the United States is generally believed to be have been a Bostonian dude named Barney McGinnis Skin, which is an incredibly wow ******* Barney McGinnis skin. Jesus Christ. If they made him in a lab at Jamison, yeah, this is a cartoon alright, yeah yeah. So Barney McGuinness Skin was hired in 1851 and a local Alderman was infuriated by this on the grounds that it would create a dangerous precedent. Irishman, he continued, commit most of the city's crime and would receive special consideration from one of their own wearing the blue now McGinnis. King's career lasted only three years. When the nationalist anti Catholic know Nothing Party took over the Massachusetts legislature, the Irish would not make major inroads. To northern Police departments until their population grew large enough that the Democratic Party realized they could guarantee Irish votes by giving Irishmen jobs on police departments. And that's why there's kind of a stereotype of the Irish police officer today, like the Paddy wagon went from being a wagon that you throw Irish people onto on their way to jail because they're all criminals, to just like a term for a cop car because all cops are Irish like that, that that change happened over the course of the 1800s. OK yeah. And it was kind of, it wasn't the only thing that had to do with this, but it was kind of a part of Irish. People sort of becoming white, you know, as they kind of take up positions helping to enforce the social order and stop being kind of on the fringes of it. Yeah, yeah, that's the thing that happens. Rebellion type stuff. OK, yeah, I'm with it. Yeah, so one thing all scholars seem to agree on is that these early police departments were uniformly corrupt and violent. Local police party ward leaders who were like local politicians in charge of neighborhoods and **** attended to appoint the police officers in charge of their neighborhoods and society. Being what it was back then, these ward leaders often also owned the local Tavern and ran the local gambling and prostitution racket. So if you were like, if you were like the equivalent of like a local like Senator or whatever, or an Alderman or some **** or City Council member. You would also own the bar in your area, and you would run, like, the prostitution and gambling rackets. And you would also run the police. Like, that's kind of how it worked. And so everybody was it was just a bunch of gang bosses, just gangsters. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. ****. **** it. Yes. Yeah. And that's, you know, that's not that different from the way the ancient Rome worked, too, to be honest. Like, pretty similar. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So these ward leaders controlled both the police and the gangs and both the police and gangs, mostly of local youths who would help. Organize voter drives and would intimidate people into making the right choices on voting day. The 1st police departments then were just one of several violent tools available to these early political bosses in the big cities of the north. And, you know, kind of the middle of the country wasn't really the middle would be like the fringe at that point. But like, whatever, you get what I'm saying, we get it. Yeah. Police salaries were also augmented by bribes paid by the owners of illegal businesses. And I'm going to quote again from Doctor Gary Potter here in the system of vice, organized violence and political corruption. It is inconceivable that the police could be anything but corrupt. Police systematically took pay offs to allow illegal drinking, gambling and prostitution. Police organized professional criminals like thieves and pickpockets, trading immunity for bribes or information. They actively participated in vote buying and ballot box stuffing. Loyal political operatives became police officers. They had no discernible qualifications for policing and little if any training in policing. Promotions within the police departments were sold, not earned police drink while on patrol. They protected their patrons. Ice operations and they were quick to use preemptory force. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All scans. All scans. Yeah. What's funny to me is too, is like when you from the street level part of the like. Outrage is when that cop all of a sudden, just one day, decides to act like a upright citizen. Yeah, you know, and and so if if you know, it's like any other relationship to where it's like, OK, you and your brother, your little sister, like, you're all scumbags. You're all stealing, you're all, you're all sneaking out. And then one day your brother goes, you know? Mom, Robert's been sneaking out all week. You're like, what the? Ohh, are you serious? Yeah, you serious, bro? Like, what are you talking about? You know why I snuck out to steal you some weed? You know, I'm saying so, like, yeah. Anyway, so it's like when you when you look at it from that perspective, like why somebody would in turn be like, man, you know what I ain't got no time for? And I got no mercy for y'all. I'll treat you no different than anybody else is because you don't act no different than anybody else. Yeah, it's *******. Yeah, it it it it is weird. Like in this. Too, most people would have looked at like a dude who was like a ******* a pimp or a yeah, a yeah. Like as the same way with a cop. Like, you guys are two sides of the same ******* coin. Yes. And then like, yeah, this and we'll talk in a later episode, we will get to sort of the media operation that was kind of helped to form what are what, what? Up until very recently, we're sort of the modern kind of mainstream consensus on police officers is like upstanding members of the community. And. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But like, yeah, for a very long time, they were just seen as. Another kind of thug. Like. Yeah, yeah. They're gang. Yeah. They're gay. Yeah. Or. Yeah. Yeah. Like as the same way with a cop. Like, you guys are two sides of the same ******* coin. Yes. And then like, yeah, this and we'll talk in a later episode, we will get to sort of the media operation that was kind of helped to form what are what, what? Up until very recently, we're sort of the modern kind of mainstream consensus on police officers is, like, upstanding members of the community. And. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But like, yeah, for a very long time, they were just seen as. Another kind of thug. Like, yeah, yeah, they're gang. Yeah. They're gay. Yeah. Now, Samuel Walker, a professor and expert on the history of police accountability, says that during this. Municipal police were used as delegated vigilantes by the empowered classes of the new United States. That's an interesting term now. Yeah. They were men entrusted with power by those in power to use violence against, again, the dangerous classes who are seen as fundamentally criminal. Interestingly enough, Walker seems to believe this idea of having delegated. The Galantes grew into a central aspect of American identity, quote many of the worst abuses of official criminal justice agencies represent a form of delegated vigilantism. The public has tended to condone, if not encourage police brutality directed against the outcasts of society or the mistreatment of inmates in penal institutions. So this thing that we all recognize, I think I don't have to, like, go into detail about this idea that, like, we should have delegated vigilantes. It's OK if we have people we all agree should be ******. That some people go **** them up. Like this really central aspect of American culture starts in this. With this idea of like the police as delegated vigilantes to damage the dangerous classes. Wow. Yeah, you know, and then. Yeah, it's. The idea of like something built in it's like. In the very construction of the concept, like, it's it. A lot of times I compare this to when you try to tell somebody that like. Hey, your story about like, the founding of our nation wasn't. It's not as like pretty as you think it was. These were just, you know, I'm saying when you try to, like, start laying, you're missing some paragraphs. You're missing some paragraphs, guys. It's like how earth shattering. And just like I have to reconstruct reality so like so when you so when you Fast forward and we go, no, most of your most of our founding fathers were slave owners. They they weren't they were not at all Christians. I don't know where you get this founded on Christian thing from. You know I'm saying like that's earth shattering. So I think like like this one this this series is gonna be that for people when you're they're just like well then is the sky blue. Can I trust my eyes with my hands if like like the weird. This is multiverse level reality shattering for people. You know, I'm saying when you go back as far as you going, yeah. Yeah, I hope so. I mean, I it's it's pretty, it's interesting. It's interesting to me because like if you, if you if you really sort of like dig into this idea of delegated vigilantism, it's kind of a central thing that Americans believe in you. You you're led to some uncomfortable kind of patterns of or or or pathways of thought because like so. One of the most popular methods used today even to justify the violence of the police is the supposed criminality or deviance of premium wireless, starting at just 15 bucks a month and now for the plot twist. Nope, there isn't one. Mint Mobile just has premium wireless from 15 bucks a month. There's no trapping you into a two year contract, you're opening the bill to find all these nuts fees. There's no luring you in with free subscriptions or streaming services that you'll forget to cancel and then be charged full price for. None of that. For anyone who hates their phone Bill, Mint Mobile offers premium wireless. Just $15.00 a month, Mint Mobile will give you the best rate whether you're buying one or for a family, and it meant family start at 2 lines. All plans come with unlimited talk and text, plus high speed data delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. You can use your own phone with any mint mobile plan and keep your same phone number along with all your existing contacts. Just switch to Mint mobile and get premium wireless service starting at 15 bucks a month. Get premium wireless service from just $15.00 a month and no one expected plot twist at mintmobile.com/behind. That's mintmobile.com behind. Seriously, you'll make your wallet very happy at mintmobile.com/behind. Now, a word from our sponsor better help. If you're having trouble stuck in your own head, focusing on problems dealing with depression, or just, you know, can't seem to get yourself out of a rut, you may want to try therapy, and better help makes it very easy to get therapy that works with your lifestyle and your schedule. A therapist can help you become a better problem solver, which can make it easier to accomplish your goals. No matter how big or small, they happen to be O. If you're thinking of giving therapy a try, better help is a great option. It's convenient, accessible, affordable, and it is entirely online. You can get matched with a therapist after filling out a brief survey, and if the therapist that you get matched with doesn't wind up working out, you can switch therapists at any time when you want to be a better problem solver, therapy can get you there. Visit betterhelp.com behind today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp.com/behind betterhelp.com/behind. My name is Erica Kelly and I am the host and creator of Southern Freight true crime. There are so many people that just have no idea about some injustices in the world and if you can give a voice to them, you can create change. To be able to do it within podcasting is just such a gift. I believe it was 18 months after I got on with speaker that I was making. Enough that I could quit my day job. It was incredible. I always feel like an ambassador for speaker, but that's because I'm passionate about podcasting. It's really easy to use. I always tell people I am so not tech. Took me 5 minutes to get comfortable with spreaker, and when I find a new friend that has an incredible show, I want them to make money. I want them to be able to do what I did. Follow your podcasting dreams. Let's break your handle the hosting, creation, distribution, and monetization of your podcast. Go to spreaker.com. Spreaker.com get paid to talk about the things you love with spreaker from iheart. You're OK with a bag of Skittles cutting through a backyard? You know, I'm saying just trying to get home so my dad doesn't get mad, you know? I'm saying. And if some dude is like. Following me, my thought is I better beat this fool to a pulp because it's scary, because I just don't wanna, you know, I'm saying so, like, I never thought of it as like, ohh, this fool thinks he's Batman. Hmm. Dang, this fool thinks he's the *******. He's the vigilante hero. That. Oh my God, I'm gonna. I mean, like the city from scum. Yes, the gum shoes. It's to say. Oh my gosh. Yeah, it's white ******* cops have Punisher patches on their ******* cars. It's and it's why all sorts of people are *******. Like, it's it's this core. Very core, even. Maybe even more core than this. Like, nebulous love of freedom that we have is like this. Yeah. There should be people who beat the **** out of people I think are bad. Like it's just an origin story. Yeah. DNA strand. Oh yeah. Wanna take an ad break real quick? Yeah. You know who won't beat the **** out of people who don't deserve it? And then misplaced desire for vigilante justice. These disembodied. Products that, yeah, are keeping the lights on. Kind of constitutionally incapable of of violence as as products, yes. On autonomously, that's not the word I'm looking for. Ontologically. That's not the word I'm looking. I don't know. OK, we're done. We're rolling some ads. Yes. The Gangster Chronicles Podcast is a weekly conversation that revolves around underworld criminals and entertainers to victims of crime and law enforcement. We cover all facets of the game. Gangster Chronicles podcast doesn't glorify promote illicit activities. We just discussed the ramifications and repercussions of these activities because after all, she played gangster games, you are ultimately rewarded with gangster prizes. Our heart radio is number one for podcast, but don't take our word. Or find the Gangster Chronicles podcast on iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast. Here's to the Great American settlers, the millions of you who settled for unsatisfying jobs because they pay the bills and you just kind of fell into it and you know, it's like, totally fine, just another few decades or so and then you can enjoy yourself. Of course, there is something else you could do. If you got something to say, you could, oh, I don't know, start a podcast with spreaker from iheart. And unleash your creative freedom and spend all day researching and talking about stuff you. Love and maybe even earn enough money to one day tell your irritating boss as you quit and walk off into the sunset. Hey, I'm no settler. I'm an explorer. Spreaker.com that's a SBREAKER hustle on over today. This is Roxanne gay, host of the Roxanne gay agenda, the Bad Feminist podcast of Your Dreams. Now, what is the Roxanne gay agenda, you might ask? Well, it's a podcast where I'm going to speak my mind about what's on my mind, and that could be anything. Every week I will be in conversation with an interesting person who has something to say. We're going to talk about feminism, race, writing in books and arts, food, pop culture, and, yes, politics. I started each show with a recommendation. Really, I'm just going to share with you a movie or a book, or maybe some music or a comedy set. Something that I really want you to be aware of and maybe engage with as well. Listen to the Luminary original podcast, the Roxanne gay agenda, the Bad Feminist podcast of Your Dreams, Every Tuesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right. And we are returned. So the system of American policing would have its next major evolution in the late 1800s as a result of the growing, like, union movement. So obviously like the the the late 1800s is kind of the period in which Americans really start to unionize. There had been unions in the United States, I think the first one was 1778, but their existence had been fairly scattered and have kind of minimal consequence until 1866 when the National Labor Union formed. Who convinced Congress to limit the work day for federal workers to 8 hours. By the 1880s, Union membership had spread widely across the private sector, and union strikes were constant across the big cities of the north. From 1880 to 1900, New York had more than 5000 strikes involving more than a million workers. Chicago had 17137, I think, more than half a million workers. So I call these strikes, and I think modern historians call these strikes, and modern people would recognize them as strikes, but at the time, politicians, business owners. And like the the wealthy classes called them riots, and they turned they're still fairly new police departments to the task of breaking up these riots. They turn. Yeah, yeah, that's where riot police start is like all these people don't want to work more than 8 hours a day. Better have the cops beat the **** just like, yo. Yeah, man, I. Before I did music full time, like I taught high school for. I taught 9th graders. You know, and. I just knew instinctually. Yeah. I was a young teacher and, you know, I'm like my before. I thought I thought seniors. And I'm like, I'm four years older than you, so I'm not gonna like, I'm not gonna send you to the office like, that's stupid. Like I'm not gonna try to act like some sort of boss here. I just figured it was real simple. I performed better for teachers I liked. Yeah. It's just that simple. So I'm just like you. Yeah. So I just felt like this, you know, my best, the best way to have classroom management is if these kids like you. Yeah. It's the, it's the thing that made so much sense when I was in Rojava in northeast Syria, which is that the idea that, like, kind of the basic, the stuff that we would consider, like the core of law enforcement, which is like patrolling around a neighborhood, making sure she's fine, like that's often done by, like, local councils heavily made-up of, like, old folks like you *******. Grandma and stuff because, like, yeah, you don't wanna you don't wanna be acting like a ******* ***** ** **** in front of your grandma. Like grandma. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Straighten up. Fly. Right. Grandma, come around the corner, you know? Yeah. So I did. Yeah, that's that's the price. So I just, I've never understood how the boss and I mean, I got, I got like an assistant and, you know, management and stuff like that. So as people on my payroll and I just never, like, why would they work? Why would who wanna work for somebody they don't like? Yeah you know say it like so if you just if you run things like I just it just seems so logical to me that you. It's like to, for bag security purposes, even if I'm like, just go to that, like, I'm just trying to secure this bag. I feel like my employees should feel like I like them. Yeah. I don't know. Maybe that's why I'm not a kajillion air cause. Yeah. Yeah. That's something I don't get caring about what people think. Yeah, man. I'll never be accountable to your fellows. Yeah, being accountable to feeling like I don't have to be the smartest guy in the room all the time. That's why I hired an accountant. Because you better needed this. Yes. Shout out to my accountant, too. Thank you, Sean. So right. Yeah, again. So riot police kind of get started to break up these ******* these these what are essentially strikes. What are definitely strikes. And, you know, this was a really good deal for the owners of businesses because since the police departments were now funded by the state, they got to break up strikes against their businesses without spending, you know, their own money to do it. And as Doctor Potter notes, the use of delegated vigilantes to break up strikes confuse the issue of workers rights with the issue of crime. So people might be sympathetic towards workers who are striking for a better deal, but they're not sympathetic towards criminals who are rioting. So you frame a strike as a riot, then you have a freer hand and just beat the **** out of everybody involved. All these things. Yeah. Thugs. They're just thugs. They had drugs on them. Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. It's got it. So early police broke up strikes in the same way we're familiar with riot cops breaking up protests today, unspeakable violence. But they also had subtler methods of achieving the same end public order arrests, which were essentially police declaring someone's behavior a crime for a non specific reason and then arresting them. These gave police a way to break up union meetings and gatherings before they could turn into strikes. In Chicago during this. 80% of all the arrests were public order arrests of workers. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah. So the infraction is y'all standing around. Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's that's the. That's the. OK yeah. You're loitering. Yeah. Yeah. You just now you're going to jail. Yeah. Allowed to stay in here. Yeah. Again, you can make some comparisons to all the states that put in curfews and then suddenly said now it's illegal to be out after five. So if you're out after five, we can **** you up. Did you see the ones I forget, I think there was a few of them out here in California. One of the one of the cities was like. Things you can do after the curfew. Go to the store, go to the groceries, pick up your children being stuck in traffic. Things you can't do after after curfew. Yeah. Gather in large groups in front of City Hall. Yeah, it was just like, oh, word. OK. So yeah, really like, oh, we're OK. Too much free speech going on here. Gotta stop that ****. Yeah, yeah. Carry cardboard signs you can't do after. Got it. OK. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Great First Amendment. Yeah, so yeah. Between 1875 and 1900, nearly a million workers were jailed for public order offences. And just Chicago. Now, a lot of cities also made use of what we're called tramp acts. These criminalized traveling without having a visible means of support. So if you were moving around in the city or the world and you didn't weren't you didn't have money, clearly, like you didn't clearly have a job, you were committing a crime. So in other words, it was illegal in a lot of cities to be an unemployed, poor person. Who left their home? So when workers would go on strike and would lose their jobs for going on strike, they were then breaking the law because they were outside in the city and doing something besides looking for a new job. What the? I know, right? That's ****** ** land of the free. Like, yeah, maybe serious. How good? Lord, man, pretty good. Pretty good. Yeah. And again, like, 80% of the arrests are of these people. So if you're talking about, like, the police protecting people, you know, who are they protecting? Who are they serving? It's not most of the people. Yeah. No. Anyway. Yeah. Yeah. Tramp acts were, of course, not applied to members of the middle class or wealthy individuals. It was only illegal to be out and not laboring if you are a member of the dangerous classes. Meanwhile, good citizens. Respectable citizens. These were all regular terms used, which, again, we're all kind of terms for fully white citizens with money and property. Yeah. These people were increasingly able, rather than being increasingly suppressed by the police, those folks were increasingly able to call on the police when they felt uncomfortable or afraid. The very first alarm boxes were set up in major cities during this period of time. And these were similar to the dedicated, you know, like on a college campus, they'll be like very well lit, like police phones that like, you know, presumably if you're getting sexually assaulted or something, you, like, run over to it and call the cops. This this was the same basic idea and they were set up started being set up in cities in this area particularly in set like parts of cities where they were like businesses and you know upper upper income housing and stuff and but they were locked so you couldn't most people couldn't actually use the alarm boxes but local businessmen and wealthy people were all given keys because the police existed to be their on call personal security. Sheesh. Ohh my gosh. Like, just all out in the open. Yeah. Yeah. There's not a lot of, not a lot of, I don't know, masks on it and stuff, so it doesn't even seem convenient. I'm like, if I'm not actively, if I'm rich and I'm being robbed, you think I got time to, like, figure out which key this is? Yeah. And I I don't think it was mostly them being robbed. I think they would see like, oh, there's a bunch of ******* Italians hanging out in this corner. I'd better get the cops over here to kick their *****. Like, I don't. I don't wanna Italians on my street corner like they're careening, you know? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. They're all. There's more than one of them. Must be a gang. Must be a gang gang. So, yeah, thanks to the advances of technology that allowed alarm boxes to exist, property owners were able to call on the Police Department, which was funded by everyone's taxes, in order to protect their private wealth and increasingly just to kind of protect their sense of comfort. So policing tools developed with the need to break up strikes and riots. Patrol wagons began taking to the streets. This allowed police to easily travel in large groups and easily arrest large groups of people. Police on horseback also started to appear because horses were seen as the most effective way to break up a group of protesters. Officers began carrying long night sticks because breaking an activist skulls was an increasing part of their job. Yeah, yeah. Throughout the later half of the 1800s, early police departments were faced with the question of whether or not officers should be uniformed and given firearms. Sir Peel, the father of police work, the guy who created the London Metropolitan Police, was pretty stringently against cops packing heat. American police. They began carrying guns independently by virtue of arming themselves years before such equipment became standard. So decades really, before police departments are giving everyone a gun, cops are just kind of buying their own guns because it is America. Let's be real. Yeah. And you know what? You're right. It's effective. If it's just like, it's like drinking again. It's like drinking bleach. Yep. Yeah. It. I mean, it'll cure. I mean, I I'm pretty sure it'll you drink enough. It'll get rid of that. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You won't die from coronavirus. You're right. You drink enough bleach. If you drink enough bleach. Just like, you know what? If you really wanna send everybody home, you know what? You're right. Beat the **** out of him with Billy clubs and guns. You're right. That will end the protest. So the US police departments. We started to kind of like in an organized way, issuing arms to police in like the 1840s. And when this started to happen, the American public was extremely skeptical of the idea. Because again, we are a freedom loving people and the idea that police would be allowed to deploy deadly force at will against citizens was extremely unpopular. At first. People were like, what the **** are you talking about? You like again, these people, we all understand these people are basically the same as thugs and you wanna, you wanna pay, have the state pay for them to have guns now, like that's not a great idea. Not at all, yeah, yeah, but as doctor Gary Potter writes quote, the value of armed paramilitary presence authorized to use indeed deadly force served the interests of local economic elites who had wanted organized police departments in the 1st place. The presence of a paramilitary force occupying the streets was regarded as essential because such organizations intervened between the property of elites and propertyless masses who were regarded as politically dangerous, as a class now these properties. Classes also considered it essential that police be uniformed, so that respectable citizens could identify them when they needed help, and so that they would create an obvious, visible presence to clamp down on unrest by the dangerous classes. Now, again, uniforms would appear kind of scattershot in different police departments, and not for never for all of the police, but for like some units and stuff would be uniform for a period of time. Many officers resisted uniforms because, again, they're basically criminals, and it made them into a target the very first like. Uniformly uniformed, like everybody wears a uniform. And that's that's part of the definition of what this this group is the very first police force for that to be standard and was the Pennsylvania State Police. This is in the United States at least, so the Pennsylvania State Police, the first like explicitly fully uniformed police force that we have in this country now. The Pennsylvania State Police were formed in 1903 in the wake of the Great Anthracite coal strike of 1902. For reference. The strikers were fighting for a 20%. Pay increase or reduction from 7:50 hours a day in their work day and a fairer system for weighing coal. This strike caused the price of coal to skyrocket right as winter hit, which put enormous pressure on the state government and on the federal government to put Pennsylvania's minds back to work. Because Pennsylvania is like the ******* the coal basket. Yeah, yeah, so the great anthracite coal strikers were opposed by a mix of Pinkertons who were essentially a mercenary police force. We'll talk more about them a bit later. And the coal and iron police now. The coal and iron. Police was a 5000 man army run by the coal companies in Pennsylvania, but empowered and funded by the state of Pennsylvania to basically do whatever they had to do to break strikes. This generally involved horrific violence, and over the course of the Great Anthracite coal strike, the coal and iron police gunned several people down. But the strikers were able to put pressure on mine owners for 163 straight days and they eventually gained, you know, modest concessions. And they didn't get a 20% raise and an 8 hour work day, but they got a 10% raise and a 9 hour work day. So, you know, take what you can. Yeah, this was OK. No, I was gonna ask a question, but I answered it myself. I mixed it with, like, I thought maybe that was like the railway company Guy that, like, started a city and had it. No, no. Yeah. Yeah, that's something else. OK. Never mind. That is happening during this. You know, you're having and that the the colon police are kind of the same thing. Like, they're these communities are all minors and using state, partially at least state funds, the mine companies establish a Police Department to keep their minds in order and really to keep their workers from striking. So the Pennsylvania State Police was established after the Great Anthracite coal strike or anthracite strike or whatever because the state was governed by mine owners and their friends, and the state wanted a dedicated paramilitary unit to violently suppress future strikes, the coal and iron police weren't good enough at their jobs. So this is where we get the first uniformed Police Department in U.S. history is specifically like we didn't kill enough people last time we needed, like a force that can really **** with people who go on strike. So in our last episode, we discussed the fact that police departments and the Americans. Both evolved out of slave patrols, which were essentially a counterinsurgency force. That similar evolution at least occurred elsewhere in the United States, even outside of the South. In 1898, the United States went to war with Spain, one of the least justified wars in our long history of unjustified wars. But because Spain was at the time also a terrible colonialist empire, the US wound up fighting them for control of the Philippines. Now, Spain had controlled that massive islands quite brutally, and the US continued this tradition, murdering as many as 200,000. Billions battling the insurgency that followed our occupation of the Philippines. Much of this murdering was done by the Philippine Constabulary, the occupation force our government put in place over those islands. And back in the United States. The Pennsylvania State Police were formed directly in imitation of the Philippine Constabulary. So yeah, the, the and this is still the state police in Pennsylvania today. They started out as people looking at, OK, you remember when we killed, we committed that quasi genocide in the Philippines. What if we take all of that advice? Use it to make up the Pennsylvania State Police and have them **** ** anyone who goes on strike. That's where the Pennsylvania State Police come from. What the OK. God like. Oh, never mind. So, Pennsylvania residents, the next time you see a Pennsylvania State Police car, yeah. Be like, hey, man, Granddad's an ******* anyway. Yeah. Yeah. So the Pennsylvania State Police were formed as an all white, all native, meaning, you know, born in the United States force. So that's what you mean by native. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. White people born in the US as opposed to white people who immigrated here. Right. Like that's what they mean by. Yeah. Yeah, sure. OK, buddy. Yeah. So the singular purpose of the Pennsylvania State Police was to break the strikes that increasingly popped up in Pennsylvania's coal fields near the turn of the century. Mine workers tended to be a mix of Irish, German and Eastern European immigrants. A lot of checks were in this kind of like mining population. Also a lot of like Russians and kind of people we don't call Russians today, but we're Russians back then because Russia was bigger and it was only logical to the rich white mine owners and their friends in government. But the same tactics that worked on undesirable races in Southeast Asia would also work on undesirable. Places right here in the United States. It was seen as critically important then, to stop the Pennsylvania State Police from developing any kind of report from the people they controlled. The state police lived in special barracks outside of the mining towns, and this was done to avoid the any kind of social intermingling. The only time these people should see the folks that were policing is when they were cracking their ******* skulls. They rode horses to allow them to more effectively trample strikers. In 1906, five thousand Windber PA Miners went on strike against their employer, the Berwind White coal mining. Company Berwind White was anti union and the largely Slovak miners of Windber wanted to join the United Mine Workers of America. The Pennsylvania police responded by writing into town, murdering 3 adult minors and one young boy, by firing wildly into crowds and brutally trampling anyone who fell down and letters home to their families. The immigrant miners referred to the Pennsylvania State Police as Cossacks. Do you know what the Cossacks were? I mean, they're still around, but like. Where have I heard that word? It's it's an ethnic group in Russia. But it was during the the period of the Czar. These were like basically kind of like these tribes of horse mounted warriors who the czar used as his shock troopers, primarily, like they fought in wars, but like their biggest job was ******* up riots and protests and committing some genocide occasionally. Yeah. So these people who are like used to the czar sending in his Cossacks when there's unrest to murder people, they come to the US and they see the Pennsylvania police murdering them and they're like, oh, these are like the same. ******* things is the Czars shock troopers? Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting risk, you know, coming across a whole ocean before airplanes just to get this. What are we even doing? Like, if **** was different here. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, yo, this saying, like, the five will Americans, you know, American tale story. I thought it was. I thought there was no cats in America. You know? I'm saying it's supposed to be better when we get here. Yeah. I yeah. Yeah. And y'all can't buy choice. So that's the part where I'm just like, why didn't you all look at each other and be like. You know what, guys? Maybe a bad call. This was a bad call. Yeah, beers worse too. Did the beer sucks? Yeah. So, on a related note, while doing my research, I came across a January 23rd, 2020 article in the Pittsburgh Post Gazette about the Pennsylvania State Police. In case you're curious about how the Pennsylvania State Police is doing today, this article points out that in 2002, following a New Jersey scandal over state troopers engaging in racial profiling, the Pennsylvania State Police began collecting racial data on their traffic stops and sending it to the University of Cincinnati. Their analysis and to its credit, to their credit, the data revealed that the Pennsylvania State Police were not exhibiting any racial bias in who they pulled over. So that's nice. However, the data did show that they were exhibiting hella bias when it came to who they searched. Troopers were two to three times as likely to search black or Hispanic drivers as white drivers, even though black and Hispanic drivers were vastly less likely to have contraband on their persons than white drivers. Now and again, this is pretty true across the nation, but it was specifically true for the Pennsylvania State Police. Like three times as likely to to search you if you're black or Hispanic. But white people are the ones actually bringing all the drugs in. So when this data was made public, the Pennsylvania State Police ended their relationship with the University of Cincinnati because the University of Cincinnati showed that they were being racist as hell. And the Pennsylvania Mint Mobile offers premium wireless starting at just 15 bucks a month. And now for the plot twist. Nope, there isn't one. Mint Mobile just has premium wireless from 15 bucks a month. There's no trapping you into a two year contract. Opening the bill to find all these nuts fees, there's no luring you in with free subscriptions or streaming services that you'll forget to cancel and then be charged full price for. None of that. For anyone who hates their phone Bill, Mint Mobile offers premium wireless for just $15.00 a month. Mint Mobile will give you the best rate whether you're buying one or for a family. And at Mint family, start at 2 lines. All plans come with unlimited talk and text, plus high speed data delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. You can use your own phone with any mint mobile plan and keep your same phone number along with all your. Listed contacts just switch to Mint mobile and get premium wireless service starting at 15 bucks a month. Get premium wireless service from just $15.00 a month and no one expected plot twists at mintmobile.com/behind. That's mintmobile.com/behind. Seriously, you'll make your wallet very happy at mintmobile.com/behind. Now a word from our sponsor. 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My name is Erica Kelly and I am the host and creator of Southern Freight true crime. There are so many people that just have no idea about some injustices in the world and if you can give a voice to them. You can create change to be able to do it within podcasting is just such a gift. I believe it was 18 months after I got on with Spreaker that I was making enough that I could quit my day job. It was incredible. I always feel like an ambassador for speaker, but that's because I'm passionate about podcasting. It's really easy to use. I always tell people I am so not tech. Took me 5 minutes to get comfortable with spreaker, and when I find a new friend that has an incredible show, I want them to make money. I want them to be able to do what I did. Follow your podcasting dreams. Let's break our handle the hosting, creation, distribution, and monetization of your podcast. Go to spreaker.com. That's spreaker.com. Get paid to talk about the things you love with spreaker from iheart state. Police is now the largest of only 11 statewide law enforcement agencies in the nation who do not collect racial data during stops. Wow. So that's good. Good on you. OK, there it is. Sylvania State police, yeah. If I could, if I could draw some logical, like, ties with this one, like, you know why black and brown people are less likely to have contraband on them is because we most likely to be searched. That's just, it's real. It's real simple, you know, like, you know, so we're not going to have it on us, right also. And I and I a little a little tangent on this, but like. Yep. And it's so crazy that, like, it's it's all out of this fear of these, you know, this dangerous class. But like, the truth is, we're probably not gonna rob that Chad or Tyler or Hunter or Karen because the police will come if we rob you. So truth is. You're actually more safe than the rest of us because because if if one of us die, if one of us get robbed, please don't care. Yeah, I'm saying but but I know the police coming if. If Karen has issues. So it's such a like this, like this? This bias that like, is just a reality of our life, you know? In some ways. Again, I get how it's worked. If we're talking sheer pragmatism. In favor for this White ruling class, which is why we called it privilege. If you can't follow along, you know, I'm saying like it's but it's just, it's but it's privilege, but not how you think. Yeah, it's like it's it's different. It's not it's not the way you set it up for. Yeah. Yeah. It's this thing. It's like there was that video going around of, I don't know, a week or so ago and maybe a week into the protests when, like those, I think it was in LA this, like, big group of, like, white people all, like, recited a thing, renouncing their white privilege. And I'm like, yeah, it doesn't work like that. You can't just. It's guys. Yeah. Thanks. Yeah. Like, I'm sure you feel good. But, like, now if you were to get rid of the LAPD, then you actually have reduced your white privilege. That's a that's a step. Then you have less privilege. Yeah. I'm like, you could just, like, use it for. Good. You know, like, there's that. You're upset. Yeah. It's so funny. It's like we like, man, some, some, some, some somebody's. And and it sucks to say it because I, like, I am deeply and intimately involved with and love white progressive circles. I am involved. These are my friends. This is my family, you know, I'm saying, but it's so funny to watch them like. Simultaneously do the most and nothing at all at the same time. You know, I'm saying, like, that's such a that's such a grand statement to be like, I'm denouncing my privilege, but that literally does nothing for me. So like it's like it's, it's. I I can't. It's like I don't know, I. Don't know what to tell you guys like I just. Just, you know, treat us fairly and help us defund the police. That's all. Like, you know, you ain't gotta. What the **** you what were you wearing kente cloth for? Like, just make some good laws. Make some good laws. Just make some good laws or remove bad ones. Either helps. Just just wanted him things. Yeah. Thank you. I appreciate it. I I see you're we're here. We're listening. Yeah, I see it. Can you just, like, make some laws, though? You know, ****** the funkiness a little bit. Just. Yeah. Anyway. Yeah. It's like a good note to take a break on. I'm just saying, Speaking of ********* the **** Ness, you know what won't **** the funkiness more is these products. Executive producer Paris Hilton brings back the hit podcast how men think, and that's good news for anyone that is confused by men, which is basically everyone. Get an inside look at what goes on in the mind of men from the men themselves. It's real talk straight from the source. How men Think podcast is exactly what we need to figure them out. It's going to be fun and formative and probably a bit scary at times. Because we're literally going inside the minds of men. As much as we like to think all men are the same, they're actually very different. Each week, a celebrity guest host provides honest advice in his area of expertise. When I agreed to do this reboot, I had a few conditions. No sugar coating, no mind games, and absolutely no mansplaining. Men are hard enough to understand without the mind games. Listen to how men think on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Tanya Sam, host of the Money Moves podcast. Powered by Greenwood, This Daily Podcast will help give you the keys to the Kingdom of financial stability, wealth and abundance with celebrity guests like Rick Ross, Amanda Seales, Angela Yee, Roland Martin, JB Smooth and Terrell Owens TuneIn to learn how to turn liabilities into assets and make your money move. Subscribe to the Money Moves podcast powered by Greenman on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts and make sure you leave a review. I'm Jake Halpern's, host of deep cover. Our new season is about a lawyer who helped the mob run Chicago. We controlled the courts. We controlled absolutely everything. He bribed judges and even helped a hit man walk free until one day when he started talking with the FBI and promised that he could take the mob down. I've spent the past year trying to figure out why he flipped and what he was really after. From my perspective, Bob was too good to be true. There's got to be something wrong with this. I wouldn't trust that guy. He looks like a little scumbag liar, stool pigeon. He looked like what? He was a rat. I can say with all certainty I think he's a hero because he didn't have to do what he did, and he did it anyway. The moment I put the wire around the first time my life was over. If it ever got out, they would kill me in a heartbeat. Listen to deep cover on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We're back and we're OK. We're back using privilege for good. And one way you can use your privilege to good for good is, I don't know if you're listening and you happen to have Purple Heart plates and you have a bunch of friends who have to drive substances somewhere, maybe you ought to be the one driving the substances because the police aren't going to give a **** about you. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. Veterans for drug smuggling is that. Yes. Yes. Yeah. I wanna go on record that like I'm I'm not trying to go hard. I'm not trying to go hard at my white progressives like, yeah, I love you. I appreciate you all in the cause. It's just I just wanna say that OK, this is fun day. So yes. Yeah. It's worth considering within the broader context of the development of U.S. law enforcement that the cops did not always cite enthusiastically when CAP with capital, when it came to struggles over labour. We previously did a two-part episode on the Battle of Blair. Down, which was a massive coal strike that ended it in an enormous pitched battle that included aerial bombardment, machine guns and thousands of combatants on both sides. One of the Great Union heroes of that whole mess was Sheriff Sid Hatfield, who gunned down several mercenaries from the Baldwin felts detective agencies. Many strikes did take place in small communities out in the middle of nowhere. And law enforcement in those places was much more kind of rooted in public spirit. These old attitudes of what law enforcement should be then kind of the new attitudes about law enforcement. And in those cases, you know, cops who were sort of like. Collected or or brought up within the community and felt like a part of it. And the community was all union. Law enforcement would regularly cite with the strikers in those situations, or it would at least feel too frightened of their neighbors to enthusiastically back the mine companies. And this was enough of a problem. This wasn't everywhere, but it was enough of a problem that starting in the 1870s, capitalist also began using private police as strike Breakers with increasing frequency. And no private police agency did a better job of this than the Pinkertons. You know about the Pinkertons, we're talking some Pinkertons. I do know about the pink. Yeah, we're talking about some ****** ******* Pinkertons. Sheesh. Yeah, we're gonna have to do a whole 2 parter. Probably in the Pinkertons at some point, but but you can't talk about the history of U.S. law enforcement without talking about some ****** ******* Pinkertons. Yeah, yes, yeah, the **** ******* Pinkertons to to pull pull from ******* Deadwood. So here it goes. Allan Pinkerton was born in Glasgow, Scotland in 1819. His father was a policeman of the for profit freelance variety, and he was killed on the job. So Alan grew up dirt poor, laboring from an early age to help keep his family fed. He became an activist in his youth, agitating for Democratic reform in Great Britain, and he was violence by the state for speaking out against it. By 1842 he had been forced to flee the country with his wife. The pair wound up living in Dundee, IL, and Alan set up a barrel making business in 18. 47 the 28 year old Alan Pinkerton travelled out to an uninhabited island to look for wood that he could make into more barrels because that was his thing. He found a campsite there and the campsite was abandoned, but clearly fresh. And because he was a born and bred cop, this guy was like kind of in his ******* bones a cop. Howard decided not to mind his own damn business. He returned to that night and hid nearby until the camps occupants, a group of counterfeiters, returned. Alan instantly went to the sheriff and reported them and the gang was arrested. So not my kind of. Dude, but, like, fundamentally a cop, like, emotionally a cop. So counterfeiting was a massive problem for business owners in the early United States, and the local merchants made Pinkerton into a hero for busting this group. He started getting offers to investigate other crimes, and very quickly, Allan Pinkerton had become the go to man for busting counterfeit coin operations in Illinois. He was soon deputized by the sheriff of Kane County, Illinois, and in 1849, he became the city of Chicago's first full-time detective. By 1850, Allen founded Pinkerton's detective agency. In less than 20 years, it had expanded to include branches in New York and Philadelphia. Allen quickly expanded outside of just detective work. He created Pinkerton's protective Police patrol, a group of uniformed night Watchmen that local businesses could hire to protect their shops. Pinkerton men, some of whom were women, also acted as undercover cops, often feeding information on criminal syndicates directly to regular police. The Pinkertons grew to become a legendary force in the Old West, helping to hunt down criminals like Jesse James. And there is some moral complexity here. This isn't an easy story, because while Allan Pinkerton was absolutely just a total ******* cop, he was also a really staunch and consistent abolitionist. Part of what drew him to hunt down Jesse James was the fact that James had been an enthusiastic Confederate soldier. Pinkerton, meanwhile, had worked for the Underground Railroad and had helped to guard Abraham Lincoln. But even when Pinkerton targets were clearly bad people like James, their methods were often still unaccountably brutal. The Pinkerton Agency actually raided Jesse James's house was basically like a no knock raid. That they carried out and they ****** ** and attacked during a time when James was not present and instead during the raid. They blew off his mother 's arm and murdered his 8 and a half year old younger brother like yeah. This is this is a ******* no knock right. Yeah, yeah, so again even when they picked the right bad guys. They wound up murdering an 8 year old, Sheesh not great not great. So later in life, Allan Pinkerton hit upon the brilliant idea of writing semi fictionalized accounts of the most famous detective cases in Pinkerton history, and these books became some of the very first true crime stories in the history of literature. But while the agency was famous for tales of sleuthing and daring do while confronting bandits and bank robbers, the bulk of the Pinkerton agency's business came from protecting capital by fighting labor. The first Pinkerton strike Breakers were hired in 1866 when miners in Illinois went on strike and the mining company needed protection. Other scabs, which are the people like the company, brings in to work the mines when the workers refuse. Now. Over the years, the Pinkertons developed a standard set of procedures with armed men escorting scabs into factories and mines while Pinkerton guards and towers aimed machine guns at strikers to keep them away. Allan Pinkerton died in 1884, and his son took over the agency and doubled down on strike, breaking. By 1892, the Pinkertons had helped to break 77 strikes. Now, after 1892, though, the agency really stopped doing. As much overt strike breaking, they shifted more into industrial espionage and infiltrating labor movements rather than confronting them with guns. And the reason for this was because of a vicious battle that took place in the town of Homestead, PA. Here we go. Yeah, the homestead strike. So here we go. Homestead was a steel town built around and for a huge steel plant owned by the Carnegie Steel Company. You know, you've all we all here know the Carnegie Foundation. We hear about them and like PBS and ****. Yeah, this is where that money comes from. So. In 1890, the price of rolled steel products has started to fall, and the manager of the homestead plant, a dude named Henry Frick, decided to cut wages. Neither his wages nor his boss are Andrew Carnegie's. Wages were to be cut, of course, and in fact, to maintain their wages they had to take the company losses out of their workers pockets. And they decided the best way to do that was to destroy the Amalgamated Association of Iron and Steel Workers, which was at the time the nation's largest craft union. Now here's where it gets interesting, because Andrew Carnegie was, you know, one of the good. Months, if you're talking about millionaires, like, that's how a lot of people would have viewed him at the time, he was vocally pro labor. Like, he made public statements in favor of Labor and saying that unions had a reason to exist. And this was in keeping with his reputation as a philanthropist, you know, a millionaire you could trust. But of course, the instant his profits were threatened, Carnegie had no time for the Union anymore and resisted, like, efforts. Yeah, exactly. So, like, he's he's like, yeah, unions are fine when the money is good, but when his money is threatened, unions got to go. Andrew Carnegie. Yeah. Sounds about right. Sounds about right. So in the in the spring of 1892, Carnegie instructed Frick to push company workers to make as much steel as possible before the Union contract expired that June because the Union contract expired and they were going to have to negotiate a new one, and the Union didn't want to make less money, but Carnegie wanted to pay them less. So if the Union it failed to accept the new terms that Carnegie and Frick offered, Andrew was just going to have the plant manager shut the factory down until the laborers relented. He wrote to Frick. We approve of every anything you do, we are with you to the end. Now, Carnegie wasn't physically with Frick. How? Of course. He was off at one of his many palaces. This one was in Scotland. Just kind of chilling. So Frick was left to figure out how to confront Labor on his own. And I'm going to quote now from a write up on the strike and PBS's American experience series. With Carnegie's carte blanche support, Frick moved to slash wages. Plant workers were spawned by hanging frickin effigy. The Union fought not just for better wages, but also for a say in America's new industrial order. Though Carnegie and Frick had brought unions to heal at their other mills, homestead remained untamed. Workers believe that because they had worked in the mill, they had mixed their labor with the property of the mill, explains historian Paul Krause. They believed that in some way the property had become theirs. Not that it wasn't Andrew Carnegie's, not that they were the sole proprietors of the mill, but that they had an entitlement. To the mill, and I think in a fundamental way, the conflict at Homestead in 1892 was about these two conflicting ideas of property. Now, on June 25th, Frick announced that he would no longer negotiate with the Union. Now, he would only deal with the workers individually. Leaders at amalgamated were willing to concede on almost every level except the dissolution of their union. On June 29th, despite the Union's willingness to negotiate, Frick closed down his open hearth and armor plate mills, locking out 3800 men. So there's a lot that's interesting here. One of them is that, like a lot of these guys, you know, these these guys aren't super educated. They haven't read that, you know, their marks or whatever, but they kind of recognize this idea of like. Ohh, you know, not that like worker. They weren't like, workers should own the means of production, but they were like, workers should Co own the means of production. Like, that's right. Yeah, exactly. That's kind of the idea of these guys kind of come to of their own accord. Now, the Union men desperately tried to contact Andrew Carnegie once a Frick closed the plant because, again, they thought he was a good guy. Like, he'd said that unions were OK. They thought that he just didn't understand what was really happening because he was so distant. And if they if they could let him know how bad things for that were for them and how bad Frick was treating them. Then he would back them. But of course, Andrew Carnegie didn't give a **** about these people. He was on vacation, and he had no time for them. He did, however, have time for Frick. He advised Frick that now was their time to destroy the union, believing that his workers would surely give it up if it meant keeping their jobs even at reduced salary. His workers disagreed. Only 750 homestead men had belonged to the union before all this happened. But 3000 of the plants. 3800 workers agreed to strike once for it closed the doors. Now, to combat them, Frick built a fortress to keep them out. Including a 12 foot high, three mile long fence topped with barbed wire. Deputy sheriffs were sworn in to man the fence with rifles. But those sheriffs and their families lived in Homestead. And when 3000 of their neighbors marched on Fort Frick, as it was known, all these deputy sheriffs were like, oh, I'm not, I'm not going to kill all these people I live with. Like, that's this seems like a bad call. So they laid down their arms and left. Now, workers then occupied the plant and effectively took over the entire town of Homestead for the very first time in American history. Laborers had quite literally seized the means of production now. Andrew Carnegie was not a fan of this. He didn't take it lying down. Well, he actually probably was lying down in Scotland, but he hired a bunch of armed Pinkertons to not take it lying down for him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the Pinkertons 300 and some odd of them got on a bunch a couple of barges and attempted an aquatic landing at Homestead. Essentially a sort of capitalist Normandy. Or more accurately, Gallipoli. The heavily armed Pinkertons expected this to be like any of the other dozens of strikes they broken. You know, they might have to gun down a few people, but these dirt poor factory serfs surely would not be able to compete with their modern Winchester. Rifles. 300 mercenaries with modern guns were sure to be enough to break homestead's resistance. And again, Carnegie and Frick had underestimated the men of Homestead, as one later recalled, to be confronted with a gang of loafers and cutthroats from all over the country, coming here there as they thought to take their jobs. Why, they naturally wanted to go down and defend their homes and their property with their lives, with force if necessary, of course. Yeah, and defend their lives the men of Homestead did. When the Pinkertons landed, they were warned not to step off their barge when they ignored that warning. People started ******* shooting at them, had a huge gun. Battle began. And yeah, yeah, yeah, there's that movie. Where's that movie? I know there might be a movie about it. There probably is. There should be more. So the Pinkertons used their steel barges as floating bunkers, firing out at a crowd of homestead citizenry. The homesteaders had **** for guns, mostly, a handful of hunting rifles and old muskets, but they had a lot of those, and they also had a £20 cannon that they've got from somewhere. They had dynamite, which they tossed like grenades. A local hardware merchant donated all of the ammunition and. Store to the crowd and for 12 hours, the gun battle raged on. By 6:00 AM the next day, more than 5000 spectators from Pittsburgh had shown up to watch from the riverbanks at 8:00 AM. Yeah, it's like the live movie. Yeah. We gotta go see the war. There's a war going on next. All down St dude, let's go. I guess I'll take a look. Yeah. By 8:00 AM, the Pinkertons had tried to land again. Workers fired their cannon and attempted to scuttle the barges by ramming them with both a burning raft and a burning railroad car. None of this quite worked. Yeah, they were. They were really giving it a shot. They committed. Just like, look, look. You know, hold the line, fella. Yeah, yeah. We can't shoot through these barges, but we can throw giant flaming things at the barges and that'll probably **** them up a bit. Now, none of this sunk the barges, but the sheer rate of fire from the crowd was terrifying to the Pinkertons, who cowered inside, one recalled. The noise that they made on the shore was awful, and it made us shake in our boots. We were pinned in like rats, and we went at the fighting like desperate wild men. All of the men were under the beds and bunks, crying and trembling, another Pinkerton recalled. It was a place of torment when men were lying around, wounded and bleeding and piteously, begging someone to give them a drink of water, but no one dared to get a drop, although water was all around us. It was a wonder we did not all go crazy or commit suicide. The Pinkertons tried to surrender 4 times and each white flag they rose up was shot down by a sniper on the board. Like, we're not done shooting at you guys yet. Yeah, yeah. Friendship, yeah. Eventually. Though the crowd did accept the Pinkerton surrender. The mercenary cops were led onto the shore, beaten and clubbed and pelted with stones as they were taken to the local jail and eventually sent out of town by train. 3 to 8 Pinkertons were killed, along with a similar number of strikers and dozens and dozens of people. Wounded, it was a victory for the labouring folks of Homestead, but sadly not one that lasted. Frick next asked the governor to send in the militia, and since the state government basically existed to serve the desires of wealthy mine owners and the like, the government said yes, the strikers knew better than to try to do battle with the militia who had machine guns, and so they surrendered. Yeah, yeah, Homestead was put under martial law, Carnegie was able to move in his scab workers. And of course this is where things get morally complex again, because the scab workers Carnegie picks were a lot of them. Black, and in fact these were like the very first black steel workers in the state. And this led to a horrible race riot as 2000 White Union men assaulted 50 black families and a number of people were badly injured in the resulting gun battle. And this is a regular story throughout. The labor movement is like, yeah, our workers are on strike. Black people, we can bring them in, we can pay them less and like, it'll it'll like they don't like. There's not a solidarity between these poor black and these poor white people for obvious reasons, because poor white people. Real ****** to poor black people, but like it. It provided an opportunity for people like Carnegie. Yeah. Yeah. Who desperately needed work. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep. Yep. Not great. It's complicated. Complicated history here. So by November of 1892, the Amalgamated Union was finished. Strike leaders were charged with murder, and 160 union men were charged with lesser crimes. Now, local juries did refuse to convict them because, again, the juries were made-up of the people who taken part in this uprising. But this was the end of unionization in Homestead. For a while once, victory was well and truly achieved. Carnegie cabled Frick life worth living again first happy morning since July. To celebrate, he immediately cut wages, expanded the work day to 12 hours, and fired 500 people. Good stuff, good stuff. But after Homestead, the Pinkertons were never quite the same, and it would be fair to say that the whole experience made the agency a lot less willing to go engage in physical aggression. But the agency still exists to this day, and still works as a private police force for the rich and. Powerful. In 2018, when workers for Frontier Communications went on strike in West Virginia and Normal Virginia, the company hired the Pinkerton Agency, now part of Securitas, a massive Swedish corporation. Pinkerton basically acts as a rentable FBI for mega corporations dealing with labor disputes. I'm going to quote now from a write up in the New Republic. OK. Wait, before you quote this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Did you say West Virginia? Regular Virginia? I sure did. That is. I say this as. As a statement of fact, I attribute no value, good or bad, to this statement, but West Virginia is a time warp. I'm like West Virginia is currently 100 years ago. Yeah. It's certainly not regular Virginia. Yes. So when you said that and it's something that, you know, I'm in a group text with a bunch of different touring artists, like, we're all just homies, but we all talk about, like, yo, I feel like West Virginia is back to the future. Like it's the Internet hasn't been invented in West Virginia. Like, we don't what? Why is this state? 40 years ago. Yeah. I yeah, it's a trip to me. I anyway, so yeah. West Virginia and regular Virginia. Just I it. I almost feel vindicated that I'm not. I'm not the only person. Me and my eight friends aren't the only people that feel like, yeah, I understand what's happening in West Virginia right now. Like, I feel like everyone who is driven from regular Virginia to West Virginia immediately had the realization like, oh, I'm not in regular Virginia anymore. This is in Virginia anymore. I don't even know why it's both called yeah, you should change your name. This is this is not the same. Yeah. North Carolina, South Carolina, few differences. Yeah. Carolinas, though, but you're Carolinas. Virginia. West Virginia, yes, that's different planet. I mean, I'll say there's a Big South Dakota, North Dakota split, but also why the two? There's like nine people in both states. Come on. Y'all poppy seeds is 9 people with poppy seeds and Dakotas. Yes. All right. We've. Anyway, I just read the quote I just had to acknowledge. Regular Virginia. That's how I feel. That's how I feel. Yeah. So in the modern day, the Pinkerton agency, basically, and it's just called. Pinkerton, now acts as an A rentable FBI for mega corporations ******* over their workers. And I'm going to quote now from a write up in the New Republic, Pinkerton's hardly the only firm to advertise such services, but its history sets it apart and the company embraces its legacy. With one called a Pinkerton, you gain access to our global network of resources, providing boots on the ground when and where you need them at, promises a Securitas aide for the firm. Lists labor demonstrations as among the risks it can monitor. Trouble can happen anytime, anywhere, a narrator intones. Yeah, the tones. Your tone is just was so triggered, like a physical response to that. Like God, anyway. Yeah, the Pinkerton promise is attractive to some Silicon Valley firms. The Guardian reported on March 16th that Facebook and Google have both retained Pinkerton to monitor staff for leaks. Among other services, Pinkerton offers to send investigators to coffee shops or restaurants near companies. Campus to eavesdrop on employee conversations, Olivia Solon reported. So, Pinkerton still out there, still ******* with labor? Yeah, just just rich boy Hall monitors. Yeah, like, what is the LAX, bro? Yeah, you know how you know how little accountability the FBI has currently? What if it just had none? OK guys, stay with me here. FBI. That we could pay to do whatever we want. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, you know how that FBI agent who was doing a back flip at a club and accidentally shot that guy when his gun fell out? You know, he got in trouble? What if there was even less accountability than that? They almost. I almost forgot that happened. Yeah, I know it's wild that happened, yes. Good Lord. Ohh. Wow. So, prop we're at the end of another episode, another chapter in police history. Yeah, I haven't, as of yet, finished writing the third episode, but we're going to talk some about the KKK. We're going to talk some about lynchings. We're going to talk some about how the police departments stopped lynchings by just deciding to torture black people instead. It's not going to be. It's not pretty good. Yeah, talk about LAPD recruiting Southern people from post, Jim. Yeah, yeah, we're gonna have to talk about that. Yeah, we have a lot more to talk about, but yeah, for now, what we should talk about is your plug Gables yes, prop hiphop.com. That's all the poetry and the in the music and the art and the the coffee paraphernalia and the podcasts. Good politics and the red couch pod, red couches. Me and my wife. Uh, hood politics. Exactly what it sounds like. I'm basically taking all that you know about politics and just explaining them and St terms. As to a lot of ways, I just. I really just want people to like realize. Your politicians aren't smarter than you. You just you, you think you you think you don't belong at the table. But what I'm trying to tell you is what this whole episode in series is proven. They just people and they just ******** it. They're just, yeah, ******** it. So if you understand, if you accept that your politicians are **** ******* and all this is just gang life, you can understand politics. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the thing. I like that nobody speak video that like it did real well. It's like, you know, this is like all these people. These are just. Different gangs. And we decide this gang gets all the respect. This is basically it, you know? Yeah. What? When? OK, so when we all know. I mean, I like really name a Republican politician that actually likes Donald Trump. Like, they don't like him. But I get it. He's from your hood. Yeah. So since he's from your hood, you keep your mouth shut in public. That's just. That's why nobody's. That's why he told the lies. Like night from my hood. I can't. I mean, he's from my hood. I get it. Yeah. Don't you, salt? Don't you sell a shirt that says yes? You have a shirt that says Paul, politics is just **** ******* or something like that. Yeah, politics is *********** in nice suits. There it is. Yep. That's the T-shirt. And I actually, I'm gonna help your plug. I ordered a worst year ever T-shirt. It's not here yet. I ordered a shirt from your store. Look at that. Look at that. There's synergy. I like the one. He has a shirt that he sells in a store that says Republican Democrat. Awake. I was like, OK, I need that. I need that immediately awake. Yeah, I do want to. While we're talking about gangs and what they are in reality, I I wanted to have you ever heard of Smedley Butler prop? I want to talk about Smedley Butler for just a second before we close out. Put me down. Put me. Smedley Butler was a Major General. He's one of the highest. Decorated soldiers in U.S. history home Dude won two medals of honor for gallantry under fire and became a ******** anti capitalist in in his his later days I want to quote from like two different speeches of his. I spent 33 years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from second Lieutenant to Major General and during that. I spent most of my time being a high class muscle man for big business, for Wall Street, and for the bankers. In short. There was a racketeer. A gangster for capitalism. Sheesh. Yeah. Sheesh. Yeah. Smedley. Butler. Smedley, Butler. You said you said that. You said the quiet thing out loud. Yeah. And it's and it's like, and it's the obvious. That's crazy, man. Yeah. Dang. All right. All right, dudes, we got some Smedley in here. We'll go back to cops on Part 3. Have a great one, everybody. Thank you again. Prop and thank you. See you all next week with more of the police. Not the band. Not the band. Behind the police is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello and welcome to our show. I'm Zoe Deschanel, and I'm so excited to be joined by my friends and castmates Hannah Simone and Lamorne Morris. To recap our hit television series New Girl, join us every Monday on the welcome to our show podcast, where we'll share behind the scenes stories of your favorite New Girl episodes. Each week we answer. All your burning questions. Like, is there really a bear in every episode of New Girl? Plus you'll hear hilarious stories like this. That was one of your things you brought back from Lotfia. Yeah, I brought because all professional basketball players? Yeah, it's like a little 7 foot hoop. Yeah, listen to the welcome to our show podcast on the iHeartRadio App Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 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