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Hi, I'm Molly Jong Fast, and this is fast politics. You may know me from my old podcast, the new abnormal, or my articles in vogue, the New York Times, the Washington Post, or my newsletter at The Atlantic. I do my best to poke holes in political arguments with No Fear of critiquing any side of the political spectrum. Listen to fast politics with Molly Jong Fast on September 26 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, I'm Erica Kelly from the podcast Southern Fried True crime, and if you want to go from podcast fan to podcast host, do what I did and check out spreaker from iheart. I was working in accounting and hating it. Then after just 18 months of podcasting with Spreaker, I was able to quit my day job. Follow your podcasting dreams. Let's break your handle the hosting, creation, distribution, and monetization of your podcast. Go to spreaker.com. That's spreaker.com. Introducing the biz tape you're all things music business and media podcast. Join me, Joe Waslewski, and my co-host Colin McKay every Wednesday where we discuss the breaking news, changing the music industry, and what your favorite artists and creatives are up to. Listen to new episodes of the biz tape every Wednesday on the Nashville podcast network, available on iHeartRadio App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Hey, everybody, I am Robert Evans, and this is behind the ******** the show where we tell you everything you don't know about the very worst people in all of history. With me today is Lacey Mosley, comedian, writer, podcaster. Hello. And Lacey, did you have a favorite book or series of books when you were a young adult? Like a teenager? Like a teenager? Yeah, I was about to say Junie B Jones. Ooh, that's embarrassing. I don't want to say the horrible set of books that I read. No, it's OK. I used to read those horrible twilight books. OK, high school. That's fine. That little Kitty, Kitty ****? No, that's bad. I'm not gonna like books. Yeah. Like little raunchy books for ***** teenager. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Twilight, did they have any impact on you growing up? Like, your attitudes about the world? Did you, like, come into adulthood like, expecting certain things about the world, about the twilight books? Yeah, mostly. I just didn't expect men to be trash, you know? I thought I was gonna find me a nice little porcelain dude to, you know, love on me and wait for me to be a virgin forever. I don't know. Yeah. But then I realized the world is like Tinder and Instagram. Yeah, that's like the that's like the the secret. Hair behind children's literature, is that it? It has such an impact on little kids minds because the stuff that you don't have any sense of credibility when you're growing up, you don't know to like, like, I don't know. Things are face value. You take things at face value. Yeah, absolutely. The stuff that we read as kids has a big impact on us and we grow up believing certain things as a result of it. And then, you know, we we encounter reality. Absolutely. But yeah, it it it leaves an impact. Young adult literature changes young adults in meaningful ways. Have you ever wondered what a guy like Hitler was reading when he was 12? Oh no. Well, I haven't. That's what we're gonna talk about today. Carl Friedrich May was born in Ernst Thall, Saxony, in 1842. Now, at that point, Saxony was a Kingdom in the southern part of the German Confederation. This was far enough in the past that Germans hadn't really locked down the concept of Germany yet. So, like, pre German Germany, Carl was the 5th of 14 kids. Nine of his brothers and sisters died before the age of 1814. Kids? Yeah. And his mom just kept trying. Well, you gotta get. You gotta get a solid like five or six out, right? Yeah. So they can do work for you, right? You gotta really double and triple down, you know? Damn, that's a lot of births. Yeah. She must have been so relieved when, like, the 5th Kid hit 18 and she was like, alright, I'm ******* done. She's pregnant for like 16 years. Yeah, that's that's like, yeah, that's the like 20 years of solid pregnancy. Yeah, that's like the run of Seinfeld and 1/2, but half. But just babies. Yeah. What a nightmare. Yeah, when when Carl was twelve, he started making money at something called a skittle alley. Alley. Skittle alley. I looked it up. And that's a sexual no you would expect, right? Anything with somebody's like a skittle alley. You don't wanna go down there. Forget it, Jake. It's skittle alley, like, yeah, it's sounds terrible. It's a term for a bowling alley. And I think he was basically a bowling hustler, like a pool shark. But for bowling. Yeah. At age 12. Eighteen, 40s, Germany. You know, that's what people were doing. So you were pretty much a man at age 14, like an adult man at 14 back then. So that was the age at which you could choose to leave school and work in a factory or go to school for job training. Carl decided to go to teacher school and made through about two years before he was expelled for stealing 6 candles, I guess. Well, there's no lights, there's no electricity. So candles are probably like stealing six light bulbs. Yeah, yeah, which which I do all the time. I haven't been fired. And still toilet paper. Everything's for grabs at work. It does seem pretty petty. Like like 6 candles. So. But he appealed and he was allowed to continue his education in a different city. He graduated in 1860 and he was immediately accused by his roommate of stealing a watch and jailed for six. So he was shady. Yeah. He couldn't stop. He couldn't. We're seeing a pattern. So six weeks he spends in jail. When he gets out, his teacher's license is revoked. So we can never teach why. Yeah, yeah, maybe. Maybe not the worst decision Germany ever made, although maybe considering what comes next, maybe the worst decision. Probably. Actually, now we think about it. So Carl may next opted for the career that came naturally to him. Shameless theft. Here's a quote from somebody writing about Carl at the time. He had stolen everything from billiard balls and gold watches to baby carriages and horses. Had cheated peasants and little store. Papers by presenting himself as a famous physician or the agent of an insurance company when he pretended to be a doctor for the purpose of swindling people. His chosen nickname was Doctor Holley. Doctor Holley doctor. Holy if that isn't a scammer name. If I've ever heard one. Look, I can appreciate a good scam. You know, people who are dedicated to Tom Foolery. You know I'm with it. And Tom Foolery is the word that immediately comes to mind when you hear I'm doctor Holley. Step right up. See what's underneath these cards. Doctor Hollis doing mammograms. OK. Oh no, yeah, that's a dark direction for it. His one of his doctors scams involved going showing up at a fancy hotel in a Newtown dressed as a doctor and getting a room on credit because he's a Doctor Who wouldn't trust a doctor. And then when he was in the fancy room, he would order fur coats and gold and silver things. Also on credit, you can order fur coats. Yeah. On credit, he's a doctor in a nice hotel. He's not gonna skip out on the bill. So he would skip out on the bill in the middle of the night and take all the fine stuff he'd gotten and pawn it. That is crazy. Yeah, he got away with that for months and months and months. His favorite con involved. Intended to be a police officer going door to door and saying he was investigating counterfeit currency. See, who had asked people for their their ten Thaler notes, which is like like like 100 ish dollars now, maybe more like. It's hard to do this. A lot of money. A lot of money. Checked. Give me your big bills. I'm going to make sure they're not counterfeit. And then they would always be counterfeit and he would confiscate them, so he would just go toward the door taking people's money. Why would anyone fall for this? Even if the money is counterfeit, I would still hold on to it. I feel like in the 18th, like, 60s, you could get away with just about everything, right? 'cause. There's no way to verify anything. And nobody's got the Internet. Nobody reads books like they're like, well, he said he was a cop and he's got a blue shirt. Imagine being a Nigerian Prince in the 1850s. I mean, clean up. Yeah. Although you would have to wait a long time for letters to get to different places. That's true. That's true. And it was a long con. The day of the typhoid in the meantime. But yeah, his capers did eventually catch up with him. He was arrested by the police and then escaped, and for months he evaded law enforcement by hiding in the woods. 500 people searching for him at one point, and he was just hiding in the woods. He finally got caught because he almost starved to death, so he was not good at living in the woods. Just hiding. And he spent four more years in jail. Even back then, German jails were nicer than American jails today. Carl was allowed access to a vast library, and he read constantly. He also started writing fiction. His favorite books were adventurous stories about America by writers like James Fenimore Cooper, who wrote the last of the Mohicans. He also loved to read travel guides who was led out in 1869 and jailed again in 1870 for doing the exact same thing he's done his entire life. So jail made him like better and made him smarter gradually, not immediately, because he gets out. After that. And he immediately gets caught again doing something dumb. Yeah, this feels like a Winona Ryder situation. He's just getting high, still in Pool balls, and he's waiting for his stranger things. Strike it. Yeah, yeah. Which it comes showing from target in 1876. That feels like a low blow. I'm sorry, Winona. You're great. You are great. But that was funny, girl. In 1876, having spent most of the last 16 years as a con man or in jail, Karl May returns to his hometown and tells everyone that he spent all that time adventuring around the world. And this being the 1870s, no one has any way to check us. And he read all these books. Read all these books. So he's he's filled with all these knowledge. Yeah, he's such a great scammer. Yeah, he's he's he's Wheeling and dealing right now. He starts reading travel books and articles for magazines and eventually starts writing novels. In 1893, he published the first novel in what would become known. Is the Winnetou series? Uh, these books would become the 19th century German equivalent of Harry Potter. Wow. I read the first of these books and I almost don't know how to start when it comes to conveying how weird these are. First off, credit where it's due. They're very racist, but they're less racist than you'd expect from a German in the 1800s. Like. So racism wasn't the main motif that the book. Definitely not the main motif. It was more like like like the wallpaper. It's like seasoning for the book. Like you said, every now and then a slur, but it's and it's like the the noble, the noble Native American sort of racism where you don't know anything about them, but like you're putting them on a pedestal as opposed to the, you know, like old Western films where like they're all monsters or whatever, like Tom Sawyer. Tom Sawyer. And racism. Cool, yeah. Yeah. So it's not as bad of racism as you'd expect from a German in this period of time, but it's it's really bad. It's it's it's really bad, but not distracting from the plot. Like, you can still enjoy the book. The plot is nonsense. OK, so Carl May is not a great writer in my opinion, but what do I know? His his character in the book is known as Carl for the first page. Carl is a young German kid who spent hundreds of hours reading about America, and he travels to the Old West to make his fortune. 3 pages in, Carl gets into an argument and knocks out a man with a single punch. Everyone around him nicknames him old Shatterhand, and that is the name he's known by for the rest of the books, shattering old Shatterhand. Because that's how Carol thought people gave names, nicknames in the Old West. 10 year old. He's all those Germans now, so they're probably still Germans, like old Shatterhand, Old Shatterhand, Ohta hands. Yeah, oldest. That's what they call me. Floyd Mayweather in Germany. See, he's earned that, though. True. Yeah. This guy Carl has not. Yeah. No, because because he's just a liar. So, yeah, old Shatterhand is like the Mary Sue of all Mary sues. He can beat up any guy with one punch. On his second day in the Wild West, he charges into a herd of monstrous Buffalo on his horse. And in this book, because Carl May doesn't know anything about Buffalo. Buffalo are huge. Huge and, like, violent monsters. Yeah. Very strong, peaceful animals. That you. Are so easy to hunt that we killed all of them because they're not aggressive. So he he kills two of the Buffalo with his bare hands, no with a gun. But the next day he gets into a knife fight with a grizzly bear and kills it with a knife without getting hurt. And also Karl may authoritatively insists that bears cannot climb. OK, that's definitely wrong. Yeah, that's really wrong. That's like what they're best at. Ohh God, how many uneducated little kids are there? Just thinking bears can suspect. A lot of German kids died to bears as a result of these books. So yeah, over the course of 30 some odd books, old Shatterhand. Ohh, sorry. Yeah. Right after killing the grizzly bear, old Shatterhand meets his Indian friend. And by the end of the book, blood Brother Winnetou, who is the Prince of the Apaches. OK, that's actually a legit sounding Indian name. I thought it was going to be something like a no, the the names are not. He he does a better job on the names than you'd expect. Yeah, the names are not offensive. Like some crazy Americanized Indian name. OK, he really did some research on on the names. Nothing else about the Apaches or their life or religion, but the names are reasonably believable. So, yeah, old Shatterhand in Winnebago on all sorts of crazy adventures for 30 books. Old Shatterhand becomes a chief of the Apaches because they need him as white people. And then, you know, he's gotta teach him about to be good people. What's a book without a white guy? Yeah. What's a book without a white guy? Teaching not white guys how to do stuff, you know, as you do. So, yeah, that's that's that's the kind of that's the kind of book we're talking about here. OK. It sounds like it would have been made into a movie like currently made into like 30. Yeah. So that's where we're getting to. First off, when Winnetou dies in the last of these books, the last thing he does is convert to Christianity. Ohhh. Yeah, because of course you know. Gotta do that. Gotta get with Jesus. White Jesus. Yeah, white Jesus. You're almost certainly German. Blue-eyed Jesus. German blue eyed, blonde haired Jesus. I call on him often. Tax stuff. Things where you need white cheese. Yes. Yeah, he's white Jesus is so good at Texas. Getting pulled over. Like, please, white Jesus, specifically, you. Come down. That's when you want white cheese. Yes, I believe what I told the right thing. Yeah. So these ridiculous books about the American W wound up being the most popular book series in Germany for young boys. To this day, Karl May is the second most widely read author in all of Germany. He's only beaten by Martin Luther, who wrote the German translation of the Bible. So yeah, he's he's ridiculously popular. And when he is at the height of his fame and wealth and like the biggest author in Germany, Karl May reveals to everyone in Germany. That his stories are all true. He was old Shatterhand the whole time. It's like if JK Rowling declared Harry Potter real and then insisted she was Harry Potter, and also she'd never been to England in her life. Yo, girl, couldn't resist a scam. Like, these books are two popular. Hold on. Wait a minute. It's me. I'm old shatterhand. He's like, can I get more mileage out of it? It's ridiculous. Because you are. You're already a millionaire's best selling writer. Don't need this scam. He's like, look, I just live to scam, OK? That's why he's stealing pool ball. Yeah, she's like, I just need it. And he killed off when the towel. So we can't talk about. No, everyone's dead and they're not. No one's going to go to America to Fact Check this. So Carl may committed to the bit. He dressed like the stereotypical idea of an American frontiersman, and his house was decorated with Native American memorabilia and Old West guns. Carl himself was rarely photographed with less than six handguns on his person. You can find his pictures if you just Google Karl may and look, I'm just going to show you one. So on the front of his body alone you can see 3 handguns and a knife. So where where did he? First of all, if you run, all these guns are going to fall out. This man literally has guns on top of guns. Resting on goods and ropes. What the hell? I think it's a bear tooth necklace. Yes. Oh, God. Oh, but you know he got the jacket right, though. It's got fringe. No, it's a solid look. It's a solid look. The jacket is lit. Yeah. No, no, he's he's not. He's not bad at accessorizing. I think knows well, yeah. So there was no Internet in those days. Obviously, everybody believed him, and one of the people who believed him the most was an adorable little tyke named Adolf Hitler. As an adult non adorable dictator, Hitler was outspoken about the debt he owed to Karl May. He talked about Maya's work regularly, and we know this because starting in 1941 his table talk was all recorded by a member of the Nazi Party. Here's one quote. I've just been reading a very fine article on Karl May. I found it delightful. It would be nice if his work were republished. I owe him my first notions of geography and the fact that he opened my eyes on the world. Wow. Yeah, a scammer opened the eyes to another scammer. Yeah, here's another quote. I used to read them by candlelight or by moonlight with the help of a huge magnifying glass. I was carried away by it and I went on to devour at once the other books by the same author. The immediate result was a falling off in my school reports. So, I mean, that's Hitler saying basically I I did bad in school because I was reading this guy's books way too late in the night. Yeah. Consumed which? I I guess you you're really bored back then, like, yeah. Growing up in the late 1800s and in Germany in the middle of nowhere. Yeah. I mean, when you're not, you know, gathering weeds for your soup, like weeds and potatoes soup. Yeah. I think that was that was like, if you read about Hitler's childhood, like, it was just the opera or being sick and almost dead at bed for him. So I guess like, you know. Terrible Wild West books are yeah. Right after this, we're going to get into more about how, uh, Karl May is ridiculous. Wild West novels influenced the war in Russia, the invasion of Poland, and the entire course of World War Two. But before we get into that, we have some commercials, and we're going to do that right now. So buckle up. In the 1980s and 90s, a psychopath terrorized the country of Belgium. 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Listen to revisionist history on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. I've never seen less enthusiasm for a great idea in my life. We're back and we're talking about Hitler's favorite young adult fiction author, Karl Friedrich may, a man who lied about everything, made millions of dollars, and influenced the young growing mind of Adolf Hitler to A to a shocking degree. So we're about to get into how Hitler based aspects of his military strategies and World War Two off of the Wild West books written by a con man who had. Never been there who had never even left Germany. Uh. In 1933, right after Hitler had been made Chancellor of Germany, Hitler spent his first summer in the Berkhoff, which was his his mountain supervillain fortress lair thing. At one point while he was up there, a guy named Egon came to visit him. I'm fairly certain it's not the ghostbuster, but I'm not 100% sure about that. So Egon later gave an interview about meeting Hitler during that time, and he recalled being in Hitler's office and seeing a bookcase and wondering, like any of us, what Hitler reads in his free time. And quote surprisingly, the majority of the books were the Wild West novels of Karl May as an adult, as an adult, as the Chancellor of Germany. And in fact, Hitler apparently reread all 60 some odd of Carl Mays books between 1933 and 1934. He gave a collection of all of May's books to his nephew as a present. And Hitler was given a very nice collection of Maya's books by Herman Gerring as a gift at one point. Yeah, so this Hitler's mind, he's old. Yeah, yeah. It's like if Donald Trump grew up reading, I don't know, yeah, Harry Potter, like you were saying earlier and then just never stopped reading it. It was like, you know, we gotta base our economic policy on Harry Potter has a room full of gold. Why don't we try that? We literally do that, though. So he is a grown *** man, he is in charge of Germany, and he is obsessively rereading the Wild West books of a of a dead con man. In 1939, when Hitler's armies were preparing to invade Poland, a Nazi plane crashed in neutral Belgium, carrying two officers with copies of the invasion plans. So not great. Not a great start to an invasion. Yeah, they did manage to destroy the plans in time, but the German military wasn't 100% certain that nothing had gotten out, and so they reconfigured their forces just in case, and it was kind of a cluster **** like they they they didn't do well at improvising Hitler plane crashes. Just pages of crossbows. Just copies of when it's out. When I tell this is a, you know, it's actually, it's scary how close to the truth that is. Hitler grew frustrated at how bad his journals were at planning a surprise invasion. He fired several of them and blamed their incompetence on the fact that while they've all read their Clausewitz, none of them had read enough. Karl may Oh no, I'm going to do some unpacking here. So Carl von Clausewitz is is like right up there with Sun Sue in the pantheon of the best military minds in history. He fought against Napoleon. And helped beat Napoleon. He invented the term fog of war, and he wrote a book titled on War That is required reading in every Military Academy on Earth pretty much to this day. Carl May, on the other hand, was a con man who pretended to be a doctor to steal fur coats. I guess they didn't read enough. Carl may. No, you're reading too much of that expert. Was was Hitler in a cult? Like the cult of one? He, I mean, yeah, kinda sounds like Karl may was like his leader. It sounds like Hitler was to Karl may what everyone else in Germany was to Hitler. Yeah, like everyone's worshipping Hitler and Hitler's like, no, this guy. Maybe this is how it works. If you're going to start a cult, you got to have something to follow yourself. You can't get too deep in your own ****. No, you got to get deep into somebody else's ****. Somebody else's. Keep yourself on the straight and narrow. Yeah. So read Carl may about it was a tactic Hitler would use for the duration of his warlord career, when the war in Russia turned against Germany and the Vermont was bogged down fighting Soviet insurgents. One of Hitler's solutions was to send 300,000 copies of Carl Mays novels to his officers. So I I learned all that before I read my first Carl may novel. And so while I was reading, I kept an eye open for just any brilliant strategic insights in case I ever find myself like Chancellor of Germany. You know, you might as well. Be prepared or whatever. Umm. So I got one insight about midway through the book, when Old Shatterhand and his coworkers are out on a Prairie surveying for railroad that's going to be built. They meet the chief of the Apaches out there, and he gets really angry at them for basically helping the railroads steal his people's land. And so he gives them an option. You either leave tonight or I'm going to come with my army and I'm going to kill all of you guys. So of course they're not going to leave and not build a railroad. They're white guys in the 1870s. They're building. Not murder you. No, that's not gonna happen. You're women, not. But, you know, this is a problem because there's like a dozen of them and, like an army of Apaches. So, you know, they've got to come up with some brilliant strategy to defeat this Apache army. So I'm like, I'm. I'm like, waiting here. Like, what was it that so impressed Hitler? And it turns out that the key in this case to beating the Apaches was that one of old shatterhand's friends was friends with the chief of another Indian tribe who happened to be nearby and had an even bigger army. And so they just use that to. Oh, the Indians really loved old Shatterhand. Just some of them. I'm like, **** our land. **** ****. Like, we're gonna help this white man out. So they call this, they call their they call in the homies. Yeah, yeah. And so they win because they've just got this extra army that's bigger than the other army. So Hitler's like, alright, got it, got it. Have another one. This is what we need to do. Cool. We need to have another army. Guys. What? Well, reading to this brings to mind the real story of Army detachment. Steiner. This was a real military unit. Well, sort of real military unit that Hitler threw together near the end of the war in April 1945. The Russians were advancing into Berlin. On paper, it was a mighty force. In reality, it was made-up of units that had been decimated in many cases had no weapons, and often did not exist at all. Hitler was convinced that this fake army was going to throw back the Russians when its commander refused to attack because it would have killed his men, who had no weapons and were mostly teenagers. Hitler went into a rage and killed himself eight days later. So. So Albert Speer, Hitler's chief architect and and munitions master and whatnot after the war, wrote that Hitler basically treated Karl may like the literary equivalent of comfort food after a bad day of losing the Second World War quote. Hitler was want to say that he had always been deeply impressed by the tactical finesse and circumspection that Karl May conferred upon his character, Winnetou. And he would add during his reading hours at night, when faced by seemingly hopeless situations, he would still reach for those stories. They gave him courage. Like works of philosophy for others or the Bible for elderly people. Wow. That really is like, if you're president, you're like, give me my Harry Potter book. Yeah. Oh, Harry, these are my Bible. What should I do now? Tell me how to open the Chamber of Secrets in my heart. How do I be Baltimore only? It's a whole real *** war. That's the Russians. It's the Russians, Baltimore, the Russians. I could see similarities, this man. Wow. Yeah, I get it, though. Hitler was a scammer. His whole life was scams. He was literally trying to kill a grace of people that he. Belong to well, that was more of a myth. So there's a myth that like Hitler, Hitler was actually a a Jewish guy. It's it's a myth. It's uncommon. So there's it's it's one of those things like there's it's impossible to get completely definitive evidence, but when you go back to the genealogy that exists, it doesn't seem like it adds up, like there's no hard evidence of irony. For me, it would have been great irony. It is true that his family's original last name was schicklgruber and he only is named Hitler because his. Shattered hands. He was shot. He was gonna be Adolf. Shattered hands off, shatter hand. They were like, Nah, brother doesn't it's not ringing. It doesn't ring. Yeah, no, it's it's it's it's he. He does have a ridiculous back story, which I'm sure we'll get to one of these days, but that part isn't part of it. He was. He was a scammer. And in almost every other way, a man could be a scammer, though. A fake army. Or yeah, he's he scammed himself on that one. Yeah, that was a that was a Hitler double scam there. So yeah, Hitler was a complicated dude and I don't want to be claiming here that, like, you know, everything that he did was based on Karl May. But it's hard to look at, say, the invasion to invade Russia and not see a couple of Carl Mays intellectual fingerprints. So this will start with the concept of Lebanon's realm, which is a German word that means living space. And it's it's one of the Hitler vocab words that a lot of people probably remember from high school. And his the idea is basically that the German people. Need more space. You know, there were this great up and coming nation. We need more space for farmland so we can grow. And the only place to get it is taking it. Yeah, taking it from Poland, Ukraine, Russia, France, everybody and Hitler. When he would talk about this before the invasions, very much couched it in terms of the American frontier. He believed in social Darwinism. Some cultures were stronger than others and strong cultures deserved to take the land of weak cultures. This idea is in full display in Carl Mays work, the Native Americans are portrayed as a doomed. Noble people. It's taken for granted that their struggle is destined to failure, and that it's perfectly normal for white people to move right on in and take their land. I love that you got something doomed because you're the one who's damning it. Like, look, we all kill them, so they're going to be killed. So it's not bad that we gonna kill them because we killing them. Like what? What kind of logic is that? It's clearly a doomed struggle. Look at how good we are at murdering them. I mean, we came to kill them, so it's not our fault when they did. No, there's some things are just inevitable. Like all this murder we're doing, but that's how you have to think as a scammer. That's how you get away with lying people who call yourself Doctor Holley. Like, look, if I don't show up and take their money, somebody else will. Yeah, so it should be me. Someone's gonna wind up with that money, either them or someone else or me. So it might as well be me. Here's a quote from one of the characters in the novel, Winnetou, who is a a white guy who becomes a member of the Apache tribe and lives with them for years and years and years. This is so. This is supposedly a guy who's sympathetic to their cause. The Red race has been cruelly outraged and robbed. But as a white man, I know the Indian must disappear. And here's a Hitler quote from October 1941, a few months into Operation Barbarosa, the invasion of Russia. I don't see why a German who eats a piece of bread should torment himself with the idea that the soil. That produces this bread has been won by the sword. When we eat wheat from Canada, we don't think about the despoiled Indians. Wow. Yeah. The way to alleviate your guilt. Like, they had all the tactics. Like, look, OK, yeah, we murdered them. But if we didn't murder him, we would have murdered him, so they would have been dead. Canada did it, too. And also Canada, remember? So, yeah. Are we any worse than Canada? Yes, but not by enough. Here's another quote. The struggle we are waging against the Soviet partisans resembles very much the struggle in North America against the Red Indians. Victory will go to the strong, and strength is on our side. Yeah. So Carl May isn't the only Old West influence that that kittler Hitler draws from. Like, you know, reading those novels as a kid sparked sort of a fascination in him with just sort of the whole American frontier. And he studied everything that we did during that period of time. And in 1939, Hitler forced 90,000 Polish Jews onto a reservation, a ghetto, in direct imitation of a strategy Kit Carson pursued with the Navajos. So a lot of Hitler's interest in the Old West was based on real history, but that. The session with real history was sparked by Hitler's own admission. By Carl Mays, Old West novels. History. Yeah. Did he ever realize that it was fake? The Hitler thing, that these stories were true? Remember, Karl came out was like, this is me. Yeah, I think Hitler went to his grave believing Karl May had never told a lie because he because the actual Karl May was a pacifist. You know, I mean, call me didn't kill anybody. He just stole from every was just stealing candles left and right. He kept the peace, but he also steal your billiard balls and your baby carriage. Yeah, if only Hitler had jumped onto the stealing billiard balls part of Carl Mays legacy. Like, we all be fine with Hitler then, right? He was just a silver tongue devil stealing pool balls so that people's houses and checking their money, they need to check your dollars. Oh Hitler. Hitler. Got away again? Yeah, he would. He would just. He would literally be a chaplain figure then. Oh, absolutely, yeah. As the war went on, Hitler and his regime's propaganda grew increasingly obsessed with what they called Wonder Wafa, or Miracle Weapons. The V2 rocket was one example of these, which is those those big rockets, they would just shoot over to to the England. And, you know, some of them would hit people, most of them would hit nothing. But it scared the **** out of people because it's like something from the sky. Yeah. Missiles hadn't existed. It's basically like. Angel falling on your house? So yeah, you can make a case that Hitler's love of super weapons and his faith in the ability of these wonder weapons to to win the war started with Karl May. See, old Shatterhand and Winnetou were often heavily outnumbered on the plains by bandits or hostile Indian tribes or groups of of of evil criminals or whatever, but they always hang out three or four bullets a minute from 200 yards away. So Carl claims he's got a right. Yeah, Carl claims he's got an AR15 out there on the planes. That he's just and he can carry 17128 bullets because they're very tiny but very deadly and it's a really specific number. I don't know why that's like an odd one to pick. You know, you know, usually you get heavy on the specific. Yeah, I picture him, like, putting in thousands of no, no, no, Carl, you gotta be specific here. No one's going to believe that. Sounds believe 17128. There we go. And when Hitler was a kid in the the time before World War One, there were regular rumors and Joe Germany, stoked by Karl May himself, that he was going to give his special secret rifle to the Kaiser so it could be used by the German army. So may as a kid was saying, like, it's OK, I know we're surrounded as Germany and we've got all these enemies, but I got this super space gun and I'm going to give it to the king. And it's going to be all right. We're going to win this war with my space guy. He could not quit lying. He already had money, he had fame. And he was like, what else can I get? Who influenced with a fake *** space? Yeah, he's like a guy who wins the lottery and then it's like, I'm gonna spend all this lot of money on more lottery tickets. That's the smart ******* play. Listen, this is really, like, empowering my life, you know? I mean, the next time I have an opportunity to lie to somebody or defraud people, like, I would take it because if I don't, somebody else will, somebody else will. And who knows? The frauds that you commit might what might wind up inspiring the next Hitler, which is what everybody wants. Everyone now. We we've got some some more of those commercials capitalism ditties to sing, so we're going to get into that next. After that, we're going to get back into how Karl May's ridiculous novels influenced Hitler's ideas of what America was going to do during the World War Two, and also how Carl Mays Ridiculous Con story actually ended. So all of that after some ads. In the 1980s and 90s, a psychopath terrorized the country of Belgium. A serial killer and kidnapper was abducting children in the bright light of day. His unspeakable crimes and the incompetence or unwillingness of the police to stop him brought the entire country of Belgium to the brink of revolution. From Tenderfoot TV in iHeartRadio this is la Monstra. The story of abomination and conspiracy that led to the demise of the entire institution of Belgian federal police and rattled the foundations of its government. Story about the man who simply become known as La Monster. Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This fall on revisionist history, is there anything that we haven't talked about, or I should have asked you or you'd like to add that seems relevant? You should have asked me why I'm missing fingers on my left hand. A story about sacrifice. I think his suffering drove him to try to alleviate suffering. And the shocking discovery I made where I faced the consequences of writing a book I thought would help people? Isn't that funny? It's not funny at all. It's depressing. Very depressing. Religious history is back with more. Listen to revisionist history on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. I've never seen less enthusiasm for a great idea in my life. Being a real estate agent isn't about listing houses, it's about connecting to people. I need to find new buyers every day, so I promote my listings using radio commercials from iheartadbuilder.com. Now every time I have an open house, it's a full house. A custom radio ad from iheart AD builder is the fast, affordable way to drive customers to your business. Put the power of radio to work for you. Get started now at iheart adbuilder.com. And we're back. So last we were talking about Karl may, the con man who wrote a bunch of Wild West novels based on nothing that inspired Hitler and his plans to invade Poland and Russia. And now we're going to talk about how Karl may shaped Hitler's ideas about America. So obviously, Carl Mays novels, by Hitler's own admission, were the first time he really read anything about America. They opened his eyes to geography. And in May's novels, America is a land dominated by German. Immigrant and the shocking discovery I made where I faced the consequences of writing a book I thought would help people. Isn't that funny? It's not funny at all. It's depressing. Very depressing. Revisionist history is back with more. Listen to revisionist history on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. I've never seen less enthusiasm for a great idea in my life. And we're back. So last we were talking about Karl may, the con man who wrote a bunch of Wild West novels based on nothing that inspired Hitler and his plans to invade Poland and Russia. And now we're going to talk about how Karl may shaped Hitler's ideas about America. So obviously, Carl Mays novels, by Hitler's own admission, were the first time he really read anything about America. They opened his eyes to geography. And in May's novels, America is a land dominated by German. Immigrants. Almost every white person in the story with a speaking role in these novels is a German transplant. In the first book, old Shatterhand, a German, heads West and meets his mentor, who also happens to be a German, and they stumble upon an old man who's been living with Apaches for years and also happens to be German. This pattern continues for dozens of books. Like almost every new person that they meet who's doesn't suck is a German who just moved to America. So it's like, oh gosh, was Hitler was Hitler's, like, overall goal. Like, he's just going to keep spreading until he gets spread. To America? Well, he thought he thought America was doomed by its diversity. But he also thought America had a chance to survive because there was a huge German population in America. So if if he could get those Germans in charge of America and just, you know, push everyone else into the sea, then America had a real bright future ahead of it. Which is why the Nazi government expended a lot of money establishing the German American Bund, which was a Nazi organization in America in the 1930s that attracted 10s of thousands of members. They drew 20,000 people at one point. Madison Square Garden. Wow. Up in the Pacific Palisades, there is a house that's currently a graffiti sanctuary that was bought as a resort for the Nazi elite in the Palisades. The Nazi elite, yes. Yeah, there's Hitler's house. You can go hike in it if you live in LA and it's actually, it's a lovely hike. I bet it's beautiful. It is. And the whole building is like a graffiti sanctuary now. So there's some really cool graffiti artwork. Like wait, like people are doing like anti Nazi graffiti or it's like beautiful. Pretty like, it's. No, it's not Nazi graffiti, at least. I haven't seen any swastikas, but it's just it's just nice graffiti. Yeah. Yeah. Because lately the Nazis don't have that swag that they used to. They weren't polos and new balances, you know, at least back then they had, you know, cute outfits, nice villas. Yeah, I'll say this for the Nazis. They knew how to make a leather jacket. Quality stitch, quality stitching. I mean, Hugo Boss, right? Honestly, if I could just remove the swastika. Well, I mean, you could go by Hugo Boss today. Oh, that's very true. That's. Oh, man. Yeah. The Hugo Boss made all the s s uniforms. Damn. Yeah, that's how that got started. And we still buy you? Go, boss, I have a great person. I mean, we we still buy Mercedes. We sure do German engineering. Yeah, yeah, they made tanks and now they make pretty good cars. You know what? I'm going to put that in the bowels of my memory because I like Mercedes. Yeah, well, I mean, they weren't bad tanks. So yeah, the fewer never wanted a war with the United States and believed that the US could be brought around to supporting Nazi ideals. And part of this belief started with the fact that he got his conception of America through Karl May novels as a nation that was dominated by sober, good hearted German punch masters. And it may seem silly to think that these ridiculous trash books would have formed the basis of the furious feelings in America. But other Europeans at the time also took may seriously as an expert on American. Culture. That is why I found this quote from a French newspaper reviewer condemning American values, because of what Karl ******* may wrote about them. The man who had never been there, who had never left Germany. The traveler, Karl May, assures us that no single point in his story is invention or exaggeration. American morals, no matter what certain admirers of that young civilization may say, are generally inferior to ours, they sometimes lower themselves to abject savagery, especially when it comes to the ugly practices of personal revenge. The writer describes the American version of Christianity, as relayed by Karl May, as mutilated. He concludes that the thirst for both gold and revenge are two of the most terrible passions of the Yankee. So you can see why Hitler might have thought America would be on board with Nazism. Yeah. And also, I mean French guys conception isn't 100% off. Right. I mean, these are some solid guesses. This is starting to make me think that when the Bible was first written, it was supposed to be like some fun fiction, and then it came out, like, around me. Like it's all true. In fact, it's me. Oh, this is taken off. No, no. This is all real me. Jesus. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I I think the first guy to draw a direct connection between Karl May and Hitler was klausmann, who was the son of Thomas Mahn, a famous German author. Klausmann wrote in an article in 1940 called Karl May, Hitler's literary mentor, where he made basically all the allegations I've just made, minus the Russia stuff, because Hitler hadn't invaded Russia yet. But but, Klaus wrote. The Third Reich is Carl Mays ultimate triumph, the ghastly realization of his dreams. It is, according to ethical and aesthetic standards, indistinguishable from his that. The Austrian house painter Hitler, nourished in his youth by Old Shatterhand, is now attempting to rebuild the world. Saman actually blamed Karl May for not just Hitler, but the fact that all of Germany bent to Hitler's madness. Quote there are hopelessly estranged from both reality and art, sacrificing all civilization and common sense on the altar of a brutish heroism, but stubbornly loyal, whether consciously or not, to the foul substitute for poetry and culture represented by Karl May. It's like a it's like a mental escape too. Yeah, so you're broke. ****. And then somebody comes along and tells you that you can take over the world. And then there's all these books that are basically saying German people everywhere, just like, yeah, it it fills this whole nation's mind with like images of this, this huge amount of territory if you can just take it from the savage people who own it. And all it takes is a a strong right hook and a magic rifle and literally what Trump has done to Middle America. Wonder what book Trump is reading. What's his Karl may? I mean doctor Seuss? Does he read cat in the hat? It's a lot of pictures in that. Yeah, you don't have to read as much cat. I'm gonna get those green eggs and that damn ham. We're all we know. That's really what's happening. Yeah. Oh yeah. OK yeah. So it it is worth noting, in fairness to Karl May, that a lot of non Hitler Germans also professed a deep and abiding love for Karl may Einstein. Albert Einstein was a huge Karl May fan, although he did not. Credit may with his breakthroughs on relativity. So he needs to give Carl some credit. Yeah, I used to wear the same shirts every day, right? Didn't that come from Karl? It stains always got six guns. Guns? I thought you were six guns every day. Einstein was always strapped. That's a classic Einstein fact pack and heat. Everybody was about to steal those theories from him. OK, yeah. I also want to point out May espoused a number of of anti Hitler's views in his novel. Not he wasn't like against Hitler because Hitler was like a child at the time, but like he. There's like a point in one of the books where a guy makes fun of a of a hunchback dude and Carl May is like it's ****** to make fun of people who have a disability. Which is not a Hitler point. No. He wanted to kill. Yeah. Hitler murdered people with, with. Yeah. Yeah. So May wasn't in lockstep with the Nazis, and it may seem a little weird that Hitler would idolize someone who wrote things that contradicted his own beliefs. This makes a little more sense when you understand what I'm calling the Adolf Hitler theory of how to read as laid out in Mein Kampf. Hitler stated reading is no end in itself, but a means to an end. And to explain that he said a man who possesses the art of correct reading will in studying any book. Magazine or pamphlet instinctively and immediately perceive everything which, in his opinion, is worth permanently remembering. So basically, yeah, cherry pick, yes, pick and choose what you want. Choose your own adventure. Yeah, yeah, he's saying the right way to read is to pull everything that reinforces your existing opinions out of a book and ignore the rest. Which is how a lot of people really. Yeah. It's kind of a shockingly accurate prediction of how content works on the Internet. Yes. So Hitler had our number with that and and religion, like, everything because, you know, Bible thumpers love to pull up those quotes that are like, anti-gay. Yeah. But then they they love to forget about parts that are just like, you know, you could still sell your daughter and like, all the **** that's just like, Oh yeah, the time Jesus beat up all those bankers. Like, no, no, no. He loves capitalism. He's a big fan. No, he loves it. No, 10%. That he would have loved that. Oh, the only time he got violent was when he beat up a bunch of money lenders. No? Doesn't confirm our bias. Damn. Hillary says some real truth, though. That was. He was. He was on the money with that one. Yeah. I mean, that's not how you should read, but it's how people do read, right? Yeah. And I also wonder if he was reading it from the perspective of, like, conquering people and manipulating them, if he was also reading that because, like, that's what a lot of these books, like, they managed to convince other Indians to beat up other Indians. Like, yeah. And the Indians are, like, surprisingly OK with a lot of what's happening. Like. Yeah, yeah. No, we got you white guys. Yeah, yeah. If there's anybody, we're doomed. Umm. So, uh, the last question of this podcast is what did happen to Karl May in the end, and that's a story worth telling too. As I said, he got rich and wealthy and started to claim that he himself was old Shatterhand. He bought a big, fancy mansion, which he nicknamed Villa Shatterhand. It's really likes that name. It was so bad and he was like, I'm going to put it everywhere. Coolest thing anybody ever thought of. Villa sounds classy. They're gonna put shattered hand on the end. Like he filled it with exotic replicas that he claimed were from his travels, but in reality they came from a furniture dealer in Dresden. He also had replicas of his characters, famous guns built in Dresden and I I got to show you a picture of his guns. What about AR15? This this one is the AR15 supposedly. But divert your eyes there to the bedazzled hunting rifle. That is a bedazzled, double barreled bear hunting rifle. ******* rhinestoned that ************ up, yo. I mean, it's cute though. He had, he had taste. He was like he was giving us a little. He was like a rapper. He really gives me the feeling of like, you know, I'm gonna wear the shiniest **** on me that's like a Lil Wayne started like bedazzling his. Yeah, yeah. It is in that I I gotta give respect to that, because if I ever get rich, I'm definitely bedazzling all my God, you know? How is the people know you're right? No. And you you wear that coat and you. Yeah, you you look at 90 degrees out, he's still sweating, sweat pouring out his ankles. We're criticizing Karl may for the Nazi stuff, but not for the fashion stuff. If anyone knows how to purport a lifestyle that they are definitely not living, it is him. They had cribs back then, like you know, Villa Shatterhand would have been lit. This is the skin of a bear. I totally killed literally Macy's on the tag that was the Bears name. He's like, I got these from some Indians. Crazy foot and. And Birdman. Birdman. His name was Birdman. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's in my book. He's like, all this ****. Looks like it came from Dresden. Oh no, no, no. So, wait, this guy in Dresden know his secrets. Does he know that he must have, right, like there has to? Maybe he was just getting so many gun orders that he was like, if I tell this money train ends. Oh, listen, I keep all the secrets. Untrusted gunsmith who bedazzles rifles. I have a store of exact replicas of everything in Carl's house, just like. No, no, no, he got it from America. No, those are the guns he used to fight a bunch of frontier wars on his own, yeah. So by age 56, Karl May was at the height of his fame and influence. He claimed to speak more than 40 languages and to understand more than 1200. Wow. So he's like that Lady who was doing fake sign language, like. He's out there doing translation. Yeah, yeah. 56, though. He lived hell along. 56 is hell along. He was back in the day. I beat all his siblings, died like he did. Live long on the curve that his brothers and sisters set. Yeah, so he no, he didn't die at that point, though. This is the height of his fame. He was so popular that during one speech in Munich, firefighters had to be dispatched to disperse a crowd of his fans. That's like some Beatles ****. He claimed that he had only two. Great missions left in life. A visit back to see the Apaches trip to see the shake of the Haddadin Arabs. Which he also wrote a bunch of books set in the Middle East that he also claimed was based about him, where he he does the same stuff but in the Middle East. So his last two goals in life are two fake things. Yeah, that's two goals in life for more lies. I just haven't told quite enough lies. Like, damn. Like you couldn't give us one real thing. He's like, no, like, lies are his achievements. Obviously he's like last week I had a fraud out. Some people in the hundreds of millions of books I've sold are nice, but it's my lies that keep me warm. Goodnight if you gotta be passionate about something. OK, so in 1899 he came under a storm of criticism. A collection of his very early works was republished against his will and these writings were semi pornographic. I have not been able to find them, which is a tragedy. Damn, he has some erotica. Yeah, he was apparently writing erotica or semi erotica early in his career. Cool that my bedazzled gun. He sued for defamation of character, but this began a surge of interest. And Carl Mays, actual documented past, so may, panicked, tried to cover his tracks. He had the original plates of those photographs that have him in costume thrown into the Danube because, like, the pictures had been edited and he didn't want people to see that. They've clearly been taken in a photo studio. So he started the little Bow Wow. Yeah. Yeah. His doctorate was found out as fake. Oh, he'd also spent years pretending to be a doctor, right? He was doctor. Holy. Well, no, he pretended to be a doctor again after he was a famous author. He also lied about being a doctor. He went back to being a you already have famous author. Well, but Doctor Shatterhand is a pretty sick name. Doctor Shatterhand the Lord Jesus. I love this guy. During the course of the lawsuit against the people who published his **** his criminal record was uncovered and worst of all, it was discovered that he'd never actually been to America. Damn. Karl May published an autobiography in 1910 to try and rehabilitate his image and defend himself. Among other things, he claimed that his famous candle theft remember the 6 candles he stole. He claimed that that was so he could give his sister wax scraps as a Christmas present. But. OK, well, I know they was eating rock soup, so I know wax scrubs might actually be nice. Here's your wax scraps. Also, that's still not a good excuse. You stole 6 candles so you could give your sister a crab. A terrible gift. Not even the whole can do. Not even give her the candle. No, she's done. She doesn't want candles, she wants scraps. OK, OK fam. That was nice. Is she dying? You should at least said she was dying. Just make a better life, Karl may. He's such a constant liar, but all the controversy did prompt the elderly Karl May and his wife to visit the United States. They made it as far West as Buffalo, NY Wow. So Carl May died in 1912, but his ridiculous books lived on in the 1960s. They were made into a series of euro Westerns that are credited with saving West Germany's film industry. There's still a Karl May festival in Germany every year that draws 10s of thousands of fans thanks to his books and the fascination for Native American culture, they ignited. Germany has a thriving Native American cosplay and festival industry to this day. No. So I in one of my previous jobs I interviewed a guy who was a Native American and a professor, and his whole job is like busting people who falsely claim to be Native Americans to like sell products and stuff. And one of the things he pointed out is that some of the world's best living speakers of languages like the Sue language are Germans who learned it so that they can cosplay better. And these gigantic festivals because no. It's a you can find these insane pictures online of these German Native American festivals where, and it's all white guys and and ladies dressing up in costume and like, not bad costume, like. A lot of these people like some of them like, authentically, like hand ship their own stone axes and stuff, like they're really into it. Hard for not using. They're not subscription. No, no, no, those were alive because everything was a lie. No, they've gotten better since then. We'll put some of the pictures up on on the site and then social media. There's some great ones of the movies where they cast just the most ridiculous looking man to be old Shatterhand. He's just like throwing gigantic rockboard rocks. Yeah, you owe it to yourself to look at these. It's it's insane. It looks a little bit like a Star Trek episode set in the Old West, like that level of production value. So, yeah. Thank you, Carl may. Yeah. I'm really proud of him. This is why I will say, like, if you're passionate about something like, and obviously Karl May was passionate about lying to people and fraud, like, it didn't even matter what he was lying about, like. And he. But he dedicated his whole life to just being a liar. And I can't, I can't knock somebody's lying with his passion. Yeah. You have to respect that much consistency, right? Like, if someone just tells a few petty lies to get out of problems, yeah, that's not respectable, but if you lie your entire life. Even after you no longer need to, for no reason other than the art of being a liar and Karl may not telling you the truth, whatever he was going to do, it was going to be not just a lie, but like the boldest lie, like, very fantastical. It's not even going to sound real because like most liars who might, might have been like, oh, I traveled to America as a young man and I met this guy and he told me his stories and that's what these books are based on. But like Carl Mays, like, no, I'm him. From the punch master who can't be beaten, but it wasn't. He never wanted to be him until he blew up and then he was like, wait a minute, it was me the whole time. I gotta say, like people talk about how JK Rowling has kind of gone a little bit, a little bit wacky and in her fame and like all the new stuff she releases about her characters and whatnot and her social media presence, but like, she's got nothing on Carl Mays game. No, because she never is. Like, I am Harry, I am Harry Potter and this ****** all real. I used to run through the platform y'all never ran through the platform before. Just give it a shot. Everyone's dead. Oh, man. Carl, may you know, big ups. I wish that I had known him back in the day. Yeah, like, also, I kind of wish that I had lived in that time. Like, when, like, think about now how hard you have to work to scam people. Like, back then, you could really just say anything. Yeah, no one's Googling you. You just go to the town over and it's like a new planet. Like, I'm a doctor. Not even that far apart. It's like, it's like probably 5 miles away. The communication. You think that guy is really a doctor? I don't know a man. He was born 10 miles away. There's no way we can check up on. No way. There's no backtracking. Just got to believe it. Look, he got the outfit all he got. Look at that coach who has a white coat and isn't a doctor. He's got a bag with a medicine sign on it. Yeah, that's all you needed was an imagination, man. Millennials would have done great in that time period. We have such great imagination. But maybe it'll come back. Maybe this whole Internet thing will collapse and it'll be like a whole world of Carl Mays. That's my dream. That's everyone's dream now. Yeah. All right, well, that's our podcast for today. Lacey, you got anything you wanna, you wanna plug drop in here. Oh, sure. You can follow me on Instagram if I ever get my phone back at a diva. Lacey DIVALACI. My Instagram stories are basically Carl may. It's just me recreating fantastical frauds. Actually frauded my way into All Star weekend this year without a ticket. Oh, nice. I was reading some Karl may books. I was like. I was like, this is my destiny. Yeah. So thank you so much, Carl. You've changed my life forever. Alright, thank you, Lacey. I'm Robert Evans. Please remember to rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. You can also find us on social media, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook at ******** pod. And you can find us on the worldwide.web@behindthebastards.com. That's all for this week. See ya. Hey there, it's Ebony Monet, your co-host for the San Diego Zoo's Amazing Wildlife podcast. In this special episode, we're speaking with Doctor Jane Goodall about the fascinating journey that led to her impactful behavioral discoveries on chimpanzees. It wasn't until one of the chimpanzees began to lose his fear of me, but I began to really make discoveries. Actually shook the scientific world. Listen to amazing wildlife on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Sisters of the Underground is a podcast about fearless Dominican women who stood up against the brutal dictator Cadfael Trujillo. He needs to be stopped. We've been silent and complacent for far too long. I am Daniel Ramirez, and as a Dominicana myself, I am proud to be narrating this true story that is often left out of the history books through. He has blood on his hands. Listen to sisters of the underground wherever you get your podcasts. 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