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Hello, I'm Erica Kelly from the podcast Southern Fried True crime, and if you want to go from podcast fan to podcast host, do what I did and check out spreaker from iheart. I was working in accounting and hating it. Then after just 18 months of podcasting with Spreaker, I was able to quit my day job. Follow your podcasting dreams, let's break or handle the hosting, creation, distribution, and monetization of your podcast. Go to spreaker.com. That's spreaker.com. If you could completely remove one phrase from your vocabulary, which phrase would you choose? I don't know. Correct answer. No, I meant I don't know which phrase, and the best way to banish I don't know from your life is by cramming your brain full of stuff you should know. Join your host, Josh and Chuck on the Super Popular podcast packed with fascinating discussions on science, history, pop culture and more episodes that ask, was the lost city of Atlantis Real? I don't know. Is birth order important? I don't know. 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OK, well then, that's the intro every single day from now on, Chris, just just copy, copy and paste that for every future. Not like it that much. Well, we're here today for a special episode of behind the ********. It's very different from our normal episodes. I don't have anything prepared or written, but after watching Tiger King, Billy and I got together via Sophia, via the text messaging app that these kids are all using, today's texting it's with the kids, they love it. And we started talking about how this show made us feel, and we decided that we should probably do that for like an hour or so. And I I think even more than talking about Tiger King, we're going to wind up talking about the South and the rural United States. Because the the, the overwhelming impression I have as a result of Tiger King is that most of my fellow Americans, because majority of Americans live in urban areas and they live outside of the South, most of my fellow Americans felt like this was some sort of bizarre fairy tale as opposed to like. I've known every ******* one of these people. Every single single one of them. Yeah. So, Billy, how are you doing today? I'm good. I'm in. Hi, Billy. Hey, Sophie. It's good to see you guys even. Yeah, just like this. Do you guys like my attire today? Addressed it on theme. Sophie's wearing leopard print, so she's she's ready to go. And Anderson's wearing some sort of jungle print. We look awful. It's great. Yeah. You do look like you're like a like a super target customer somewhere. Yeah. Thank you. Look like you're going to explain to me why the master says that we can't eat in the dining room and instead I have to eat in a barn off of a floor for the first nine months that I'm cleaning up the elephant slop. OK, yeah, which is the thing that happens kind of to people who join Doc Cantley's. Anyway, Billy, you want to tell me about your experience with with with Tiger King? Well, I mean. Someone. I had heard of it. I had heard of Joe Exotic before because a friends of mine's podcast, The Last podcast, guys like Henry and Ben and those guys they had, they came. He came up on their radar because they have the weirdo wonderful weirdo radar. So but I forgot about it. And then as I'm watching it, I was like, I know this dude is. Yeah. He. Yeah. Yeah. And then it was like, I think my wife was like, some of this is unbelievable. And I was like, well, I think they're leaving out the meth part. Yes, they only to it, but not until, like, one of the last episodes, they're like, oh, and by the way, everybody was really, really ****** **. Yeah. That was the thing where, like, there was some of it where it was like, all of this makes perfect sense with people I grew up around or with. And then people have encountered traveling my whole life. If you leave the city, you're just like, yeah, they it's or even in the city. I mean there's a, there's a little person in this neighborhood I used to work in in New York City who had a Great Dane who was taller than him. And and every I I remember everyone was like, isn't that crazy? And I was like, no, he would he would fit right in in my hometown. That guy is like perfect. Yeah, I don't think he walks his goat. Hollywood Blvd. Every day? Yeah, that doesn't even like I've stopped at a gas station in Louisiana that had a tiger like it was a gas station tiger in Louisiana. I don't think it's there anymore. I think, though, that they've replaced it with the President was some sort of weird animal like that. And there's alligators too. Like there's I've lost track of the number of animals in gas stations specifically throughout the South that should not be on display in those places. It's not an uncommon thing to encounter, and I I guess some of why this didn't seem weird to me. Like, I grew up 3 hours away from Joe Exotic. Yeah, like Winnie Woods about 3 hours away from Idabel 2, something like that. And it's I as a little kid. Some of my earliest memories are like driving to and from, you know, different chunks of Oklahoma. And you would see these. And there was more than one different type of we have a bunch of tigers on some land ads that you would see by the highway. And all of them are the same business, which is a dangerous person, has acquired 300 acres of land and a indiscriminate number of large. Cats. And that's the business. That's the business. That is the business. It was just always a part of my life. Remember noticing driving through Texas? This was like probably 10 years ago and you just you're used to seeing. I grew up, my grandpa had cattle, so there's a certain height of fence you're used to seeing. And then every now and then you'd see one there's like, why is that ****** ****** 20 feet? Ohh, cause they've got some stuff you shouldn't have. In Texas. They have legal animal. Well, they're not illegal animals because Texas, I'll tell you, illegal. I said, yeah, should, should have in Texas. Very fair. Yeah. So we should like the the statistics. Like one thing you'll hear a lot that I have repeated myself that may or may not be true is the idea that there are more big cats in private ownership in Texas than there are in the wild. And this may or may not be true. It might not be true for specific Texas, but it is for the United States. They want that. I saw that. Yeah it's probably true for the United States. 5000 is a reasonable estimate and most of those are in private hands. Well you'll you'll hear various estimates. 5000 is the is the kind of credible kind of kind of credible minimum estimate. I would I don't know. It's hard to say because all of the a lot of people will say no, there's not nearly as many like fight. Even 5000 is too high. But all of their data is based on, like, official government numbers for, I was going to say, allowed to own these animals. And the people that want these animals aren't they're going to lie on the census, you know? Yeah. They're never going to tell you. Yeah, yeah. Los Angeles, CA. I got a couple of my tattoos in a tattoo shop that was a former Shark Tank. For a drug dealer like that. It was a it was a warehouse that he had converted to his mansion and the room that later when he got busted became a tattoo shop was where his shark lift like **** like this. That shark wasn't on a registry. No, he was not. It's still not on the registry. Some cops house right now. Guys listen to this stat. There's estimated that there are 10,000 to 20,000. Yeah, big cats in the US, but those are those are problematic numbers too because those are all from the Humane Society, right? Or from some animal welfare society. Right now this is held in private ownership and it's from but where's the the number from? I've seen I've seen this number on several different websites where they're getting it. It tends to track back in in my from my research is always tracks back to the Humane Society or someone similar. Which isn't necessarily a bad source, but like, also they make their money based off of donations from convincing people that a lot of tigers and stuff are being harmed. So it's like there's no we have no way of knowing. Like, the actual answer is that there are thousands of tigers in America and no one will ever know how many there are or who has them. They're just all over them. Yeah, and and. So I I we were talking about this a little earlier and I think I'm of the opinion that in terms of from a legal standpoint, I think Carol Baskin is probably in the right. I think she dotted her eyes and crossed her T's. I believe every complaint she has about the humane issues with with Joe Exotics. Tiger? Uh, yeah. Plantation. Like saying every. Yeah. Like legally everything Dick Cheney did was cool too. Yeah, she's * **** Cheney type person. Yeah. I I think she and Doc Antley and Joe Exotic are all murderers. And I don't know who they've killed. Like, I'm not even saying I think that that that she killed her husband. I have no idea. Rich old, like one of the things you learned spending a lot of time in rural America is rich men in their 70s. Disappear for a lot of reasons, yeah. Sometimes they just leave. Sometimes they just leave. Yeah, you might just be in Mexico. For 40 years, like one day I'm just, I'm gonna leave. One of my favorite things that I've read since watching this is what's on her bigcatrescue.org about refuting Netflix, Tiger King, and their use of a meat grinder. Graphic like that was a choice you made. And it's just like a 10 minute video of her husband being like, if Kim Kardashian, you're welcome here anytime. I know you tweeted like, so do we think Carol's a murderer? And like, I don't know, if anybody had spent a minute with Carol, they would know. But like, Kim, you can come. Not all of you can come. But Kim, you can come. It's yeah, Carol. Carol is. So there's, I think what I wanted to really get into even more than specific discussion about Tiger King is the kind of people that these folks are. Because all three of these main, main characters in the documentary are part of a classification of human being that exists only in America. And and I would, I would broadly describe them all as rich, off grid criminals now. Every town that is sufficiently in the middle of nowhere has a rich, off grid person, if not more than one, and they fall into two groups. They're all criminals. Every single one of them is committed some sort of serious crimes. There are the nonviolent criminals. So these are people who embezzled money, who committed tax fraud, who stole a bunch of money, who were in the drug business. And they're awesome. If you can hang out with those people do. Because they technically did was steal from the church. That is definitely what I did. Yeah, **** it, I did invite people. $100 million from the church. But you could **** it. Yeah, and they always have weird animals and they're often very nice people and they have cool houses and you can shoot on their land and they a lot of them rule they are fun until they are not. That's who these people are. That's a lot. It depends, like the nonviolent ones, and it can be hard to tell. The nonviolent ones I've had good relationships with. But the the other half of the rich, off grid criminals are violent. Criminals, yes they are. And they are usually the outwardly nicest, yes. Like? Doc Antley, I think, is the kind of person that I've run into the most in my travels through rural America. He seems very familiar to me. He's got, he's got some Keith Ranieri energy. I met a couple of Doc Antley's out in slab city like it. It is a type of dude you meet out in the middle of nowhere who knows a bunch of cool ****. They always have like a bunch of talents. They're usually real good at building ****. They have something that they have created that draws people to them and they are usually very friendly. And the longer you know them, the more controlling you realize they are. That is the type of person you run into. They understand parts of human nature in a way most people don't, but they're using their power for usually sex. You almost always sex. Yes. In an interview he gave, like on a radio station after this came out, he said that all those women you know were relatives, daughters, his children's wives. You know, he's like, yeah, yeah. Y'all are all related, Sir. I I got no judgments for, like, a polyamorous guy who wants to live on a compound because I'm a polyamorous guy who wants to live on a compound. And yes, if I could have a tiger, I would have a tiger. But you know that, yeah, that was that was very clear from the beginning, Sir. Umm, but yeah, here I I got a story I want to tell about. But you don't want to sell their Cubs. You don't want to sell their Cubs. And Doc Antley, like, has been accused of some horrific stuff. He has more than 35 USDA violations for mistreating animals. As a result of his farm, the Humane Society tracked one of his tiger Cubs that he claims are, you know, very ethically sort of, you know, sold to different, like reputable people that wound up on like just a basically a tiger farm in the middle, I think. But I think South Carolina, and it was like sent over with ringworm at three weeks old, which is too young and was like immediately put into a petting zoo. Yeah, yeah, he's done. He does a bunch of ****** ** ****. He's also apparently a really good Tiger trainer because his his tigers and **** like they've been in a bunch of movies. Like, he knows his ****. He's not like bad at what he does. He's a bad person who has created a tiger breeding mill. Yeah, he's like a he's like one of those country music singers in the 50s or 60s. Yeah, where they have this gift. Yes, and they use their gift for, like you said, mostly usually like bad money stuff or bad sex stuff. That's what. Because they realize, like, I have this thing that attracts people and I can get them to do what I want and then move on to the next. Yeah, there's certain everyone has talents, but most of us don't have a talent that is so specific and desirable that we don't have to ever learn anything else. And if you are good at making tigers like you. And and keeping them alive and training them and stuff because of #1 the fact that there's money in that and #2 the fact that people lose their ******* minds around cats. Which, again, I lose my ******* mind around cats. I can't think straight when I see, I've seen, I've, I've, I've been to the places where they have little baby tigers and it short circuits your ******* brain. I understand how these women get like like stuck in this for years because like, yeah, if I got to, I would put up with a lot of **** to get to play with baby tigers every day that drugs, drugs. They're junkies. That's what he's doing. He's creating like these tiger junkies. That's. I did it. Yeah, I went. When I did this documentary I hosted a couple of years ago. We went to this cat lady in prompt, Nevada, and she wasn't, she didn't. She wasn't trying to make money off this at all. Like it wasn't. She was a divorced lady. Now her her ex-husband was still alive. You know, it was there. It was interesting. I was like, oh, that's probably why she made that such a point. Like, when I watched Tiger King, I was like, I remember thinking, like, that's why she was so clear about her husband's still being alive. Because we were all like, why she why she say that? Like that? Right. We didn't know who Carol Baskins was then, you know what I mean? But she did. I guarantee you she did. And her whole thing was like, she rescued them. Yeah, I I had, I, I I do have some friends who live out in the middle of nowhere, who have a lot of land and are looking at, like, figuring out how they can, like, get in, get involved in a program to like rehab. Big cats that have been, like, abused or confiscated from drug dealers. There's ways to do that. I have a friend who does, the giant lizards. You know, like there are programs if you are, if you're, if you're a non grifter, non monster, and you're like, I want to make my whole life be about having a giant cat that I take care of. That's a dream you can achieve in this country and I love that about America. That is great. Yeah, yeah, it's great. But it also like, we don't talk enough about the mind altering power of cats. I had some friends who kind of accidentally acquired an F1 hybrid civet, which is like a while. It was like, I don't know, 2030 pound half Wildcat enough of a house cat that it kind of it looked like an enormous, very muscular house cat in the long tail. Is that the one? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And and very smart. And very sweet, very personable, very trainable, but also destroyed everything, like could not be stopped. And they they put up with it for so long because they just love that ******* cat so much. It was, you know, eventually they found a farm for it, but it was this thing of where I could see it. Like, you guys know this is a bad idea. He's destroying your house. You can't stop them from pooping everywhere. Like, he's he's he's murdering every animal in the neighborhood, I think it sounds like it's like. You sound like you're describing someone that was with Charlie Sheen is also. Yeah. Where it's like, yeah, fun and like a lot of times, like very engaging, but then everything he'll destroy everything, you know, just because, yeah, I've known some people who know Andy **** and the stories are not dissimilar, but big cats are, well, much better behaved. I would. I've been around, I've been around Andy **** on several occasions. So every story I've ever heard, I'm like, yes. And then I would much rather be around a big cat. Yeah, then they did I so. I wanted to get into a little bit of like one of the posts that I saw from a friend of mine on Twitter after they finished Tiger King was I just finished Tiger King and I've realized that I don't understand the South at all. And I love that people are having this reaction because there's some important stuff in Tiger King. Because a lot of what people think is weird in Tiger King is not weird. Like Joe's relationship with his guns and Tannerite is I so ******* common. The the putting faces on it is a little weird, but not even that weird. Yeah, such a good point. Like, I would go on Twitter and like this. Some of the stuff people were like, I couldn't believe this. Like, I was like, oh, that didn't even register in my brain as an odd thing. This guy just always wears a gun. Yeah. Yeah. And you know what? You see him use it for a very practical purpose. At one point, he needs to have a gun if you're walking around in tiger cages. Yes. Yeah. If, hey, or if the straight kid that you're messed up to Mary's mom shows up, you got to shoot at her feet sometime. Sure, sure, sure. Yeah, there's tons of videos. A hunter Thompson out in his farm in Colorado getting into friendly gun fights with his neighbors. It's not weird. OK, I've seen it. I'm from the South. We used to shoot cannons at each other on the 4th of July. It's yeah, that's pretty cool. We used to fire into Lake Texoma until we had to run away from the Coast Guard. You know, we you you'd blow up chunks of the country every year. It was just a it's not weird, OK? The State Park Superintendent where I live, son. Set off a bomb in the State Park. And all of us were like, uhhh, yeah, yeah, that checks out. Spencer would do that. Yeah. Yeah. And it's I I've also seen people talk about, like, how weird it is that, like, law enforcement wasn't involved in more chunks of this, that, like, these people are just kind of left to their own devices. And it's again, this, like, I think those people have spent most of their time in the city. I can remember one time out on my my partner's property in the middle of ******* nowhere in Texas. We had, as a result of a younger relative of hers making a poor decision with fireworks, a brush fire that immediately got out of control and got to like the acre and a half two acre. It was going to like, hit the vehicle parking lot where we had all of our cars because there were a lot of folks there and like burned down this house. It was like a bad wildfire. And like as we're scrambling to put this ******* thing out, she's on the phone with the fire department. And they tell her finally, like, we can't figure out where you are and hang up. Oh my God, that's that's a lot of people's experience with like, yeah, that's what the law is out here. Like, if there's a murder, someone will come eventually and. And y'all y'all are telling us you don't know who did that. You're telling us you're trying to tell us the police, that all seven of y'all that live out there don't know who killed one of you. OK, OK, well, I don't want to be here after dark, so I guess that's the end of this investigation. Well, and I, I think one of my, the one of the parts I laughed the hardest at and I know I shouldn't. But when they showed the footage from Zanesville, OH, the press conference of that small town sheriff, he was like, he's like, there's 12 lines, there's four bears in one. *** **** baboon. The way he said it was just like, you can't say the F word, but he said the F it was just like in a baboon is loose. And I was like, I just, I was like cry laughing in the bed and my wife was like, what's what's so funny? But then I was like, I don't know, I'm just picturing that's exactly what my town would do. Like, I'm just picturing people I know growing up being in that position, being like, you think you want to shoot a line your whole life, and then you're looking at one in the face and you're like, this is the scariest, worst thing that's ever happened to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I, I've spent some long nights actually out in the farm as a dear friend of mine is spraying down. Like, ******* crops and like waiting for a Mountain Lion with a rifle. Because we were, you know, we were out in ******* rural Central California and it was a drought season and there were like the ******* the big cat that was in the area because there's usually, you know, an area like that. There's like a big cat that everyone knows about. You see signs of it. You don't see the cat usually because they're ******* good at not being seen. But there will be, you know, in this case, like some of the land she was on. This is like my partner at the time, 47. But also, I know I'm not faster or better at hunting than that cat. Yeah, and by the time I realize I need to use this AK47 that cat has got me. Yeah, and I don't trust the stopping power of a weapon that will put down human beings very easily to put down a cat that quickly. And another one of the scary things Speaking of terrifying rich people have known in the middle of nowhere. I've known some folk who did, who haunted animals like that with crossbows and would get very close, and stock cats on their own with a ******* bow. And those are people you don't want to **** with, no. No, because they're better at hunting than a big cat. Yes. And they're getting something out of it. A cat doesn't. Yeah, and they're they're. I don't want to. I will not say which state this person is. I will not say their name. I will say those were not legal cat hunts. No, no, of course not. Robert, do you know? Do you know what else is is is not a legal cat hunt? You know what won't illegally hunt mountain lions? No. What? Well unless it's the coke, Coke industries Charles Koch cannot get erect without bathing his penis in the blood of an infant Mountain Lion and that's that's that's that's on record he he he talks about that openly so that's this is considered this legally binding coke lawyer. I mean there's a reason he chose Wichita so absolutely it is the masturbate with cat blood state that's what they call Kansas. Here's some ads services. Mint Mobile offers premium wireless starting at just 15 bucks a month. And now for the plot twist. Nope, there isn't one. Mint Mobile just has premium wireless from 15 bucks a month. There's no trapping you into a two year contract. You're opening the bill to find all these nuts fees. There's no luring you in with free subscriptions or streaming services that you'll forget to cancel and then be charged full price for none of that. 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Sisters of the Underground is a new scripted series about fearless women exploring the life and legacy of the Mirabal sisters, Dominican women who were brave enough to challenge decades of oppression. Together, they led their country toward a revolution against Rafael Trujillo, the brutal dictator who ruled the Dominican Republic for 30 years. Please, please help us has blood on his hands from executive producers Dania Ramirez and Eva Longoria. That's me comes the powerful retelling of this all too relevant narrative. Listen to sisters of the underground as part of Michael Toura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We're back. And I kind of wanted to move to tell him some stories, Billy, because I think we both have stories of kooky folks we've met out in nowhere who I kind of might go with. This is like, I'm glad that people are enjoying Tiger King. It is a fun show. I enjoyed it myself. I would like people to understand how many tiger kings there are out there in the world, even the ones that don't have tigers. Yeah, I don't think if you didn't grow up in the. In the South or not even in the South, if you didn't grow up in a rural area, I don't think you truly even then. OK, here's the thing. Even then. If you didn't live outside of town. You might not understand these people too. I think that has something like because like, yeah, even where I'm from because of where I lived out in the quote UN quote country part of my rural county. I was still like a country. They were like, we people that lived in town, we considered them city kids. Yeah. Yeah. And that that. I think that is a part of it. Like there's there's rural and then there's like, ******* nowhere, you know? Yes. Yeah, there's rural and then there's there are not services. Yeah, yeah, there's rural. And then there's where your buddies dad who's a game warden tells you not to go. Yeah. Yeah, there's if you cross onto the wrong line, they just shoot people because they got pot fields. Out there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. So. I was out. Nowhere adjacent. And one of those, I was in a rural town that was kind of bordered by ******* nowhere. This would have been 5-6 years ago with my partner at the time, and it was around Thanksgiving and we were out on the town, walking around and she had an Israeli Air Force shirt on. It was not a political statement. I don't think either of us were. Yeah, it was just she liked the logo on. It's a shirt she'd had for years. So she's wearing the shirt and a guy picks it out and he's like, hey. You know it. It's good to see somebody else who likes Israel. You know, I was in the IDF and we were like, oh, cool, we talked for like 10 minutes. And he, he's, he invites us over to his house for dinner for the night. And this is a guy like 40s, early 50s, something like that. Does not sound Israeli, sounds very American. But, you know, there's a sizable number of American like born, you know, Jewish folks who went to Israel, served in the IDF, came back. That's the thing that happened. So no alarm bells yet. Just like this nice guy who. Uh invites us out to his farm, so we drive out about an hour and a half from the town, maybe less, but we drive out quite a lot aways from the town to get to this guy's house. And this is the middle of the ******* mountains and we are like his. His house is at the foot of 1 mountain. That's maybe 5-6, seven thousand feet, and then there's a 14,000 foot peak, like kind of a couple of miles back. So he is, he is in some ******* rough country and he's got this gigantic, beautiful stone ranch. Mansion that's like my, it's it's still to this day, like my from the outside, my dream home, like made out of like, like clearly 100 something years old, made out of like, beautiful, like stonework. And then there's this, like massive complex of pastures and pins and like a ton of horses and cows on line, just this amazing ranch setup. And so we're like, oh **** we're going to meet like, I love meeting cool people who own compounds in the middle of the woods because you get to do fun **** on them. So we think this is that. So we meet this guy, we, we head into his house and the first thing we notice is that there's no furniture. In his house, except for in one corner of one room, the second is that one of the empty living rooms is filled with bags of marijuana, which is not that weird for us, but it also makes it clear, like, OK, this is a bit like big bad, normal residence. He's probably 60 to 100 pounds. You know, that was just kind of sitting out. So not, like, the biggest operation in the world. But he's clearly running a pot farm that's not tiny, you know? Yeah. And it's also clear that, like, oh, you don't really like, you live here, but you don't really live here. This is a bit of a trap. House, you know, yes, like, but the other thing that we notice is that the one corner of the big living room that has furniture has like a couple of couches and then. Probably 500 or more different kind of knives. Knives and swords and not and this is the thing. You know me, I got. I I love, I love, I love knives. I have a ton of knives around me. There's knives hanging up on my walls. I'm always surrounded by knives. Not. I'm not going to judge a man for owning knives. These were not the kind of knives that a person who is that a reasonable person owns. Do you remember Bud Kay catalogs? May yeah, vaguely. It's like all of the knives that look like they were from like a low budget horror movie where they're like claws like Wolverine claws that you can stick on your fist or like these like curved daggers made out of. And they're all made out of like ****** steel. And they all break and they all look like something that, like a bad superhero from the 1990s would have like welded to his body like toy knives. And he has like 500 of these all stacked in a corner of the room, around his couch and so. That's weird, but he's very nice and he brings us in the introduces us to his child bride. Just when things get problematic. So again, this guy is in his mid 40s to early 50s. Maybe his wife is not a day over 18 and they have clearly been dating for a while and it becomes clear through conversations that she is not in her family. This is my wife I'm raising. And she cooks us a lovely dinner and we have it sure as hell she does, yes. Doesn't talk much, and he's very polite and tells us about his mom, who was some sort of great hero in the Israeli army. That was all lies. It was very clear that it was all like, no, your mom didn't kill 60 guys in this one fight during the like, it just didn't happen. Like you're just lying about a person who isn't real. And he repeatedly, the thing that we got to be really unsettling is he would repeatedly, every time, like, you know, I try to be polite to human beings every time, like his wife would like, bring in food or like would refill the drink. I would thank her. I would thank him when he was, like, bringing in. And he'd be like every time either of us there that it was all like, no, your mom didn't kill 60 guys in this one fight during the like, it just didn't happen. Like you just lying about a person who isn't real. And he repeatedly, the thing that we got to be really unsettling is he would repeatedly, every time, like, you know, I try to be polite to human beings every time, like his wife would like bring in food or like would refill the drink. I would thank her. I would thank him when he was like, bringing in. And he'd be like every time either of us thanked him, he would be like, you know, not enough people show respect anymore. That's what I like is seeing respect people need to like. That's what maintenance makes someone a good person or not a showing respect. And it was such a constant thing he brought up to ours. Like, ohh, something horrible happens in this household when you two are the only ones here and she doesn't say thank you like, and he, he had big Doc Antley and energy, and I never got what his full grift was, but he invited us to live with him by the end of the night, which is not the first time that's happened to me. It's actually happened quite a lot because again, and this was a thing, my partner at the at the time had this, this habit of being met by weird people in the middle of nowhere and they would invite us into their lives and we would say, yeah, sure, yeah. And then it things would get horribly uncomfortable. And that time we were just like as soon as we got in the car, like, no, this guy lives too far out in the middle of nowhere. He could make us like, it's we just child bride, lose this guy's number and never come back here. So I don't know what was going on there. You never you often don't learn the whole story, right? Never know the whole. If you're smart, you never learn the whole story. That that's something I learned. I mean, just doing touring your whole adult life you do, especially in your 20s, because you're looking for adventure more than your. Just going through life, especially if you're a stand up because you're like, I'm going to get. I need some stories. So early on I would. Say yes to people after you know, I would go places you're not supposed to go. And they only happened a couple of times, but there was always weird animals. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, very all reptiles are pretty common. That normally didn't tell me off, but like, there would always be like the time I remember where I was like, oh, I'm never doing this again. Was these people I I talked about pot and they're like, hey, do you want to smoke afterwards? And I was like, sure. So I got in the car and went with them and then there weren't. It was like there was a snake and then they had weird rodents, but as pets define weird. Like ferret type? Rodents that weren't. Do you know what I mean? Like, where I was like, I don't know what those are something. It's like, it was very clear that they went to some effort to acquire animals people don't normally have access to. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then by smoke, they pulled out heroin. And I was like, Oh yeah, baby, OK. I can't. I can't. I was a very polite and I was like, I don't. That's not what I meant. I thought it was pretty clear on stage in front of 300 people that I just smoked pot and they were like, we thought you were speaking in code because you called it dope. And I was like, maybe one. Oh, it was just like, but then, like, that wasn't even the weirdest part. It was those weird rodents. I can't think that was the key to me. Yeah, that was weird. Like, I might have sat there and watched him smoke heroin, but the animals. Where I was like, I don't understand what they had. This has to do with that and I don't like that, yeah. This is uncomfortable to me. Yeah, my favorite weird animal stories is my great, great uncle. I remember going this was like I was five or six. I remember this so clearly. He had called a raccoon like he had a bunch of **** dogs. So he did that. I thought that the dogs were cool, like a bunch of bagels and a couple actually a **** hounds and then they were cool. And then he had a trapped one in a cage. And I Remember Me and my dad walking up to look at it and I went to pet it and my uncle like slapped my hand. He said he don't like being pet. He's mean. And I remember saying then why do you have him? Why do you have him as a pet? And I remember the look on my great, great. Uncle's face like that had never occurred to him. Well, yeah, he shocked. Like what? He is there an option besides having this angry animal in my home? He's like, I caught one, I didn't shoot it, I called it, said it would be nice, and I was like, that's what they're just being 5, being like, let that ****** go. He doesn't like that. Growing up my my aunt was dating a fellow who had a a huge now and this was in suburban Texas, had a shocking number of exotic reptiles in it. He had a shark in his suburban house like a nurse shark and he also had a massive, very ill, profoundly ill tempered iguana. Now I love reptiles. I'm a big reptile fan and as a little kid I was even more into them and I desperately wanted this animal to be my friend and he had to sit me down and explain to me like. When I got this animal was already an adult. It is not hand trained and it will kill you if it gets out and you get close to it. That tail can break a grown man's thigh bone. He would smash you into bits. Then it got out like three days later when we were watching his house for him and his parents had to come over. And there was like, all of the adults in my life were basically like wielding broomsticks to try to knock this animal into like a box that they could lock it into and then throw the box in the cage. That's. Wow. Yeah. Why do you have this thing as an adult? I wonder? Why would you continue to own an animal that hates you that much? Hate you, I get. Yeah, profoundly hates you. I get having an animal that's indifferent to your existence because fish are fun but hates you. I don't know. I was messing with that. I remember messing with the Liger. This guy had it when we went to the cat lady. Her husband brought out this Liger cub and I don't know, we thought he was kidding because I didn't know they were really real because of Napoleon Dynamite. That's what I mean. Yeah, so like literally when he's like, it's a Liger and me and the sound guy were like this ******* *******. And then as they're shooting B roll, I went and looked it up and I was like, dude, they're real. They are real. So then I start messing with it and it's about the size of like a big Labrador retriever. Do you know what I mean? Which is a cool size for a cat. Because, like, that's a fun dog to mess with, too. Like, you can kind of Waller with it and. I was like messing with it, like I with a dog, like with it. And then the guy goes stop that and I was just like, what? What is it going to get? He's like, no, no, no. He's like when he gets older, he won't know that that's playing. And he'll kill me play. Yeah. And I was like, Oh well, I'm leaving in like an hour or so. I'm just gonna keep doing this. Animals like that are kind of like the weird people you meet out in the woods, and that you have to have very strong and sturdy boundaries in order to keep them successfully without getting killed by them. But there's, I don't know, it's a healthy respect, I think. Yeah. Like, we had it this this girl lived in our back house for a while, and she had a hairless cat that she rescued. And that was mean. Mean cat. Yeah. That attack everybody. Well, one day I walked in there when we were first getting used to it and it was just me and the cat, and the cat came at me and I was raised on a farm. So my foot did this instinct thing and kick the **** out of the cab across the check because we're establishing boundaries. And then my wife and our tenant a couple weeks later was like, why doesn't the cat attack you? And I was like, oh, we have an understanding because I attack back. And they would never they attack. They were just afraid of the cat for two years. And I was like, you guys, it's an animal. Yeah. There's a certain level and I think you have to grow up around animal like I grew up on a cow farm. That was a lot of my earliest memories. Like it wasn't we owned the farm, they weren't our cows. Somebody else basically licensed the farm. But like it was my backyard was like 150 acres full of, you know, 100 something head of cattle and these two bowls that were pinned up separately that bulls were and like the only. The only, like, warning I got from my parents was like, don't get close to the Bulls because they'll they'll kill you. But it was also just like, go do like you have a dog. Like the dog is expected to keep you alive. Go out and wander around in the field. And there's a level of, I know I was maybe 6 the first time I saw like the severed head and spinal column of a of a dead calf. And it was because some sort of, some sort of animal was murdering cabs in our yard. And then my dog found it in the morning and dragged it out to show us and was like, look guys, look, what I got is so happy. It's free food back there. This is such a good day. Why you guys look so sad. This is right. This is the best team thing ever. Yeah? It was just and lay in there this to your comment about just sort of like responding to an animal attack you like. Yeah, you ******* kick it, you know, like you kick it there's a level of. It brutality is the wrong word because brutality implies that it's pointless there. But there's a level of acceptance of physicality that is sometimes violent with animals that comes with growing up in the country. Yes, there was a thing. Get like, again on my, like, my partner, former partners land out in the middle of nowhere like they had a farm, and every now and then they would shoot a coyote on it. And in order to keep the coyote away from the things you don't, the other coyotes away, you would hang the dead coyote up as a warning to the others because they're smart enough. They know what like that means. Like they see the corpse of a coyote hanging above a bar and they're like, Oh yeah, don't ******* go near there. Those people will kill you. It's just like a thing that you do. That that I think it's communication and yeah it's a it's nature's communication is more aggressive than a lot of. City dwelling people understand, yeah, I see it. Like one of the things that frustrates me and actually makes me laugh, it used to frustrate me. Now it just makes me laugh and it still frustrates me is in LA, you see, because vanity is such a problem here and aesthetic is what people are going for. They'll they like the look of a certain dog. Yeah, and they'll buy a dog that's not that gets breed. It's like like a good example is like my cousin in law he had a Beagle. And he was like, The thing is so loud and it just like, yeah, tears up my house and they have a horrible health problems with their ears. Yeah. And I was like, yeah, because you shouldn't have it in Culver City, CA. No, that dog needs to be just chasing whatever. And then it's loud because it needs me to hear it. So I go shoot the thing it's chasing. Yeah. It's like. It's like people I don't know. I don't want to go on like a rant about Huskies, but it's Hollywood's a weird place for a dog like that to exist and you see them. But it it's also like, yeah, there, there's, there's this, there's two kinds of people who will tell you that their dog is a wolf. It's it's people in like ******* Portland, OR who who want to seem cool and just have a perfectly normal Husky dog. And then it's people out in the middle of nowhere who were telling you don't go into that fenced in yard. That's where we keep the ******* wolf. Wolf, Wolf, you can't, you can't have him inside. He just destroys things. He will eat his way. He will get bored. And eat his way through the wall. Let me show you what he did to the last wall when we let him inside before we tried to domesticate him, but then we realized evolution hadn't domesticated him yet so we keep him outside now. Turns out he's just 180 pound monster that we keep in the yard. What we've and if we're being real honest, he allows us to keep him. That's where it is. That fence won't hold him. Peter, if he continues to not eat, the children will. We'll keep feeding them. We're good. We're good. Umm. I I think that's the whole thing with the Tiger King, though. Like they don't. I don't think people, city people understand. The relationship that you have to have with animals. In rural areas there are more part of your life, like when I go to Alaska. I know I had to learn what animals like, you see a moose, and they look goofy and silly. They're huge. But the way they move is just like, I guess, but they murder people more than humans do in Alaska. So it's like that kind of stuff was like someone got someone walked out of the Anchorage Public Library while I was up there one time and a moose kicked his head off. Not completely, but like enough to make him dead. And that is why basically, everywhere in Alaska, you're allowed to carry a gigantic handgun around if you want, and then you can be a little drunk. That's the rule. Sure. Yes. I don't see how being drunk should stop anyone from carrying a gun, Billy. That's your right as an American. A lot of place. Oh yeah, you can't be drunk and with a gun but Alaska you can be. And when you go up there like this, that makes sense. You should be a little drunk. It's interesting on a little of a rant which place because in Texas, right, if you have a concealed handgun license in the state of Texas, any amount of alcohol you could potentially get arrested. It's kind of up to the officers discretion. Even if you're under the legal limit, if you have a concealed handgun license and or carrying, they can at their discretion arrest you because Texas has good rule. It's not a terrible rule. Necessary, especially. Texas has one of the highest rates of alcohol related violent crimes in the United States. So like, there's a specific thing they're dealing with. Yeah, away I have a friend who was driving down ******* the, the, the ******* the high five in DFW and a bullet just went through the windshield of his car right in front of his face as he was driving. Like, who knows? I'm sure alcohol was involved, whereas in Oregon you can be as drunk as you want while carrying a concealed handgun. And as far as I know, it's never caused a problem. And I choose not to look into that any further. Billy, no. You need people, you need lumberjacks, and you need lumberjack that's not drunk with a gun. You can't do your best drug testing servers. There's not gonna be a restaurant. Yeah, yeah, if you if you require chefs to be sober, there will be no food. Yeah, it just won't happen. Yeah. So, Billy. We're going to roll out to ads here and I don't have a good transition, but when we come back smooth. I want to talk a little bit about what happens when like this these specific. The specific species of rural weirdo goes elsewhere in the world because I have a story or two about that. Yeah, yeah. I want to talk about an expat I knew the, the, the rough story, the, the, the the title of the story I'll give you is the pedophile who saved my life. So we'll we'll talk about that when we come back from ads. Mint Mobile offers premium wireless starting at just 15 bucks a month. And now for the plot twist. Nope, there isn't one meant mobile just has premium wireless from 15 bucks a month. There's no trapping you into a two year contract. You're opening the bill to find all these nuts fees. There's no luring you in with free subscriptions or streaming services that you'll forget to cancel and then be charged full price for none of that. For anyone who hates their phone Bill, Mint Mobile offers premium wireless for just $15.00 a month. Mint Mobile will give you the best rate whether you're buying one or for a family and at Mint. And we start at 2 lines. 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It's not funny at all. It's depressing. Very depressing. Religious history is back with more. Listen to revisionist history on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. I've never seen less enthusiasm for a great idea in my life. Hey, it's Rick Schwartz, one of your hosts for San Diego Zoo's Amazing Wildlife podcast. In this special episode, we sit down with Doctor Jane Goodall to hear her inspiring thoughts on how we can create a better future for humans, animals and the environment. Don't help them find ways of making a living without destroying the environment. We can't save chimps, forests or anything else, and that becomes very clear when you look at poverty around the world. If you're living in poverty, you can't afford to ask as we can. Did this product harm the environment? Was it cruel to animals like, was it factory farmed? Is it cheap because of unfair wages paid to people? And so alleviating poverty is tremendously important. Listen to amazing wildlife on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. OK, we're back. What if what if the pedophile Hussein your life is just Jared Fogle from Subway because he you just lost a lot of weight and he was a little bit like if Bhagavan Antley was a was a was a pedophile, which he might in fact be, but if he was, that doesn't help. It's a weird Hindu Mystic connection to this guy. Silly. Take my money for that. So we're talking about, like, the weirdos, like, because the kind of people who are the focus of Tiger King and the kind of people that I think I certainly find really charming about rural America, like, is part of what draws me out to the middle of nowhere is meeting these weirdos who are too weird. They couldn't live in a city. They just wouldn't. It wouldn't work. Animal guy in the entire docu series was that Mario guy that was sentenced to 100 years behind bars. Yeah, yeah, nice guy. The guy in South Florida that was had the compound and they wouldn't let people in. The guy that Scarface was based on the Scarface guy? Yeah, yeah, I like that guy. He seemed like a good guy, normal guy in the entire thing. And he was the guy that was sentenced to prison for 100 years and that's what ever after 12. That are very funny. Comedian said that about he was like he was like, yeah, the guy that based Scarface, they based Scarface on. He's not even interesting enough to be in this documentary. Ohh exactly. That was like, that is true because he's he's pretty smart. Yeah, he's smart. He clearly like the murders and stuff that he was related in were, you know, business related as sort of like a practical, pragmatic thing. And I think that all of the other people who, again, I am explicitly alleging here have committed murder. I think they were more passionate killers, you know? Well, they got in the way of something. They want the business problem. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Like you, if you were to hang out on Mario's land with him, you'd be perfectly safe. Right. Unless you, like, tried to do. Islands to him. And I'm sure you would have a great time, because he seems like a nice. He seems like a pretty cool dude in spite of the fact that I'm sure there's mountains of blood on his hands. But sometimes you meet cool dudes who have killed a lot of people. I don't think that shook him. Yeah, like you said, I think he's a business person. So he's like, hey, there's a good UFC fight on. I've got it. I'm going to we're going to use a projector. The Lions are going to watch. It's going to be a good time. You're. I bet he's got good pot. I bet he's got great pot. He reminds me of some folks I've hung out with and. Like rural Bosnia, where it's like. You, about 15 years ago, you did some things that I wouldn't believe if you told me. But we're having a good time now. And you have so many weird puppies. Yes. So really respected his wife's monkey clothes collection as somebody who dresses their animal and clothes against their will? Yeah, yeah, it's the same type. Animals don't have a right to not be dressed up. I believe that strongly. I but I like you like a treat. Yeah. It is the type of like that Mario, guys that. You're exactly right. He has the same energy as like a former. Like, I worked for military intelligence and that's why I married this Russian lady, and I and I help her raise these lions. We were just like, my life was very exciting. Now I'm retired and this is kind of boring and nice to me. Yeah, this is boring and nice and I need, I need whatever I do during the day to have, like a chance of killing me. But I don't want it to. Require that much effort? Yes, yes. That I need to know why it's going to kill me every day and not change. Yeah, I've known variants of that guy who's dangerous. Thing was they were self-taught electricians who had like retired to the land and had they had projects and every one of their projects was like, well one of these days you're going to slip up like and this will catch up to you and they say negative stuff about the BLM for no reason. They're very angry. The BLM, yes, where I had to like, I don't even know that some terrorist. Oh, now they're just OK. I got what? Yeah, as a general rule, if the folks we've talked about today, probably less than 1/3 of them have legal drivers licenses, but all of them drive. So the pedophile who saved my life. So yeah, back to that. We've got these there are all these weird people that we've talked about who live out in the middle of the country, and they're because they're too weird for cities. And then there's another classification of people, and most of the ones I've met are, in fact Southerners, but they're too weird to live in the middle of nowhere. They do something that gets them exiled from the United States and they wind up as expats. And they're they're always it's. So I'll just tell you about this guy. So I'm in Guatemala and we're, I'm hiking. There's this big ******* volcano, the tallest peak in Central America, that I I hike up with a friend of mine and we have a little, a couple of friends of mine and we have a little standoff with some bandits and it was a great, great memory. And so we come down this mountain and we get on a bus to head back to the place we're staying, which is like 5 hours away from the mountain and in rural Guatemala. And the place we're staying is Lago Atitlan is this beautiful place that has a decent amount of tourism, you know, relatively built up cities, even though it's kind of out. Of off like a little in the middle of nowhere, but the road there, you're just in the ******* jungle. So like a couple of weeks earlier when we've been on one of these drives, we'd been, we'd like chartered a bus and had been driving in a bus, and we just got stopped in the middle of the jungle at midnight by a dozen men in camouflage with no patches or rank or Insignia and machine guns who stopped us and searched our vehicle, said nothing, and then waved us on. And then that's the way you want that to happen, though. Yeah, that is the way you want that. Happened, and there was like an empty, flipped over box truck, you know, a quarter mile down the road with its lights on that had clearly been robbed. Like, who the **** knows what was going on? But this is like the kind of country that you're driving through. And we're driving through it and we take what's called a chicken bus. And a chicken bus is a giant school bus that's been covered in Chrome and painted ridiculous colors. And they drive them on these hairpin, a lot of times, unpaved mountain roads. They'll fill them up with ******* 200 people and just be darting down these things at 70 miles an hour. It's it's. Real fun so. We're taking this chicken bus and there's the aside from, you know, my friends and I, it's it's my partner at the time, her girlfriend and my friend Josh, and we're all *******. We're all in this car and we're the only other like. We're, we're the only other white people other than this one French Canadian girl who's seated up front and everyone else is a local. And when we get the bus stops in the middle of a random small town and they tell us are connecting buses there and it's the middle of the night and they toss our bags off and they toss the French Canadian girls bags off and then they drive off with her still in the bus. So we realize 30 minutes or so into this, we're in the middle of a jungle, there's no one around us, we're not in a town and no buses. Coming to pick us up and also we have this strangers back and we're in ******* bandit country. So after, you know, I don't know their bags in French, we don't even know what it means. So 30 or 40 minutes go into this and we just start hiking and it's a kind of situation where like. Yeah, this could go really, really badly. Like, we're we're in the middle of nowhere. We don't even really know how to. We have a vague direction for where the town we're going is, but it's probably at least a 5 hour hike away. We're just in the middle of nowhere, in the jungle, in a foreign country, and as we're hiking and, like, terrified as to whether or not we're ever going to, like, figure out how to get to where we're trying to go, this Range Rover pulls up and sitting in the front of a Range Rover is a dude who looked like the Dilbert guy. He was a. Like can I interrupt? Yeah, Land Rover or Range Rover. Land Rover, OK because the Range Rover that would even that's even more like what the where the **** you got a Range Rover? Yeah. This was like a real, like, this wasn't like a like a like an LA Mom Land Rover either. Yeah. Yeah. I was just thinking, like, in a show like, yeah, I got. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he pulls up and he's like this Dilbert, Scott Adams looking ************. Like he's he's thin and he's bald and he has a very, like, gentle Arkansas accent. So, like, and yeah, so he pulls us. So he he pulls over by the side and he asks, like, very politely, do y'all need a ride. And we're like, and. Yes. You know, what are the odds that we run into this American in the middle of someone? Like, we can talk to and very easily explain where we're going? And so we pile into his car and he's like, oh, it's, you know, it's great that you all are heading to atitlan. I'm headed there myself. And then he picks up a bag of raw meat of an indeterminate type that is sitting, like by my feet in the front seat of the car and says, I'm going to go sell this to my friend Paul. He runs a hotel in the town. And this sparks a very strange. Series of conversation. So it becomes clear that he's butchered some some animals and has decided to drive the unrefrigerated meat down to try to sell to a hotel and that sparks a conversation about why he had to leave the United States in the 1st place, which is see, he has these theories. Billy Wayne, he had these very theories based on Hindu mythology about how his wife needed to eat and hydrate while she was pregnant with their child. And this is when I would have been asleep in the back and I would have woke up being. Keep going. Going. Yeah. So what's happening here? Well, his theory was that it was actually all of the problems kids have is because their moms eat while they're pregnant and that his wife shouldn't eat anything at all. Nothing but water. And his proof that this has had worked was that his baby came out blue, which meant that it was blessed by Shiva. So at this point, we're still in the in the jungles of Guatemala in a guy's car who we're reliant on to get us to the town. And now we're having this and I look back and like everyone, everyone in the back of the car has kind of that look on your face now realize like, I have to, I have to continue this conversation for however long it takes us to get where we're going. Oh, that's what that phrase nothing is free me? Yeah, there's a tax on this ride. So we talk about he has a lot of opinions on Rainbow gatherings, which are like this thing that hippies do that's kind of like a precursor to Burning Man. It also still occurs is like a gathering and you'll you'll encounter different opinions on rainbow gatherings depending on who you talk to. This guy thinks they're a great thing but is very angry. Angry because he got banned from ever attending again for misunderstandings. And it becomes very clear that the misunderstandings are consent based and also very clear. This is a lifelong pattern for this guy. So we're. Taught as we wrote we finally do get close to town, which I was happy to hear. And as we get close to our hotel, and our hotel is the guy who ran, it was another creepy expat, but a British expat, so not dangerous. And not at all. He had like 4 wives, but it was fine. I mean it wasn't fine. One of them like anyway, he wasn't this guy. They they would make leaps in their stories. You'd be like, oh, there's some parts I think they're leaving out. Yeah, yeah, that's OK. Like, so we're what just happened right now. Continue. So we're we roll up to the hotel and he's like, so Paul doesn't like to talk to me anymore, but I need to sell him this meat because it won't survive the trip back. Could you convince him to buy this me from me? Which I have to try to do because he's given us a ride. I was going to say you this is like hearts and minds. You got to it, and I and I do. And Paul does not want to buy the meat. And the guy hangs out in town sleeping in his car for another couple of days trying to sell this meat to people. And we had a couple of local friends, like I know who sent you here. So the next day we're out like walking around town and we see this guy and say hi and one of our local friends, we had a couple of friends who are like actual, like Guatemalan locals. He sees us talking to this guy as a dude, like we drunk with a little bit. He was the security guard at our hotel. So we would hang out at night and have a couple of beers and you would let us shoot his gun into the air because every night he would shoot his gun into the air. So people knew a guy with a gun was at the hotel. So that guy, that's what we're talking about, sold us pot too. He was a great dude. He sounds fun, he was awesome. He comes up to us after we say goodbye to this fellow and he says. It notably, he looks less friendly than he ever has before. And he very carefully asks us, is that man your friend? And I say very clearly, no, not really. He just gave us a ride last night. I don't really know him. And he said, yeah, well, that guy has done some very bad things to some of the kids in this town, and we're going to run him out of town tonight. And if he doesn't leave on his own, like, he's going to go by other means and you probably shouldn't be seen talking to him. So that was the, that's my story of the pedophile who saved my life. It's not as exciting maybe as it sounds, but it was a fun 2 days. Well, and then you you gave him some extra time in town. So not not on purpose, no, that's what I mean. But like he saw you guys and was like, oh, this is this is my take it in, yeah, this is because these guys are mad at me because of my. My misunderstandings? I don't know. I love weirdos. Like, obviously I don't love that this guy was has been leaving a trail of broken lives and had to flee the United States because he definitely poisoned his kid who he was. He assured us his kid was doing great and a genius. But. No, no, no, he's not. Oh, now what he did was malnutrition. That's what he what you did was malnutrition. And you are the kind of expat who just can't ever come back home. Yes. Oh man. Yeah, is is. It was fun. More like. There's places though, like where, like I have I. It just made me think of like a friend of mine was touring the world doing stand up. And he was like, I called him and I was like, where you at? And he's like, I'm trying to get out of and I'm not going to say the islands he was in, in the South Pacific or Southeast Asia, but he was trying because he was like, I just realized the guy was staying with is not as cool as I thought I was. Like, why? He was like, well, he said he's not allowed back in South Africa. And I was like, yeah, man, you should go. Right? You should I'm not. I'm going to hang up right now. I don't want to be talking. You know what? That's not super easy to get banned from South Africa. That's what I told I was against. I was like, they're pretty loose on what you can do there. And he's like, no, I'm aware you need to have done a very specific kind of bad thing to get banned from South Africa. Yes, yeah. Yeah, that and that. He was like, no, no. And he said it's so casually, too. I was like, yeah, that you got to go. Yeah, yeah. You wind up, I wound up kind of slightly beholden to some folks like that over the years because, like, I was always working while I was living on the road, and so I would it was critical to me to have Internet access. So sometimes you just have to be good friends with whoever owns the business with the best Internet access in town. And sometime it like, there was this other guy who owned a bar in Guatemala who was a former Highway Patrol officer from Arizona and said that. One of the first things he told me when I met him was like, I used to be a Highway Patrol officer in Arizona and I can never go back now. And he clearly had, in the recent past, had a couple of 100 grand to spend on buying a hotel in a bar. And those two things were connected. Yeah, they are. Yeah. He was a crooked Highway Patrol officer and and he was also like the big drug dealer in town, which I'm sure also tied into why he's no longer a Highway Patrol officer. He saw a business opportunity. And he was like, I don't wanna be at law enforcement anymore. No, I wanna run a shady *** bar that gets European kids dangerously intoxicated. On their holidays and that's what he did. My last memory of this guy is because he also had a 17 year old wife who just given birth. Which is another time. It's high. That's what I don't think. People that don't same eyes. They don't. I've told people this a long time ago, too. Was like some of my friends that don't travel was like, we'd be in a bar and I'm like, hey, this is going to happen. That's gonna happen. It's gonna happen. They're like, what? And then it would happen there. How did you know that? I'm like, I just, I've seen this. This is we're all the same. Yeah. This guy got invited us to a cool party. No, I've known this guy before, and you do not want to go to that party, and no, you don't. It's going to get weird about. 1:45 in the morning, that's when it gets it's going to be fun. Until then, you're like, oh, we're this. This wasn't the party, was it? Yeah. No. And it's not going to just get, like, weird. Like, your friend gets drunk and starts crying. It's gonna get like nothing else will ever be normal again for the rest of your life. Yes. It will change you as a person. Yes. Yes. Yeah. My last memory of that cop was he had his baby on a bassinet around his chest, and he was shirtless. Other than the baby he was wearing, and he was leaning over the counter of his bar with a jar of mushrooms preserved and honey, and he was spooning them into a naked Danish boy's mouth. Just like bye, Alan. Yes. And here's the thing. I don't think people understand. Like, unless you've been in these situations, like, yeah, I could. I could do this podcast for 18 hours. Yeah. Because everything you bring up, there's like things that I've forgotten about. Oh yeah, that guy. Oh, that time is like you. Like, you can't stop these people. No, you can't stop the Tiger King, you can't stop Carol Baskets. They have an energy that that's what propels them in this life. It's like a trunk kind of person that kind of goes through. Only thing that stops them is that. Yeah. Like Carol, Baskins will eventually like her wanting fame the way she does is going to be her undoing. Yeah, yeah, it's the I don't know. I don't know philosophy, but there's a thing. People who I know who talk about philosophy talk about the phrase they use the will to power, and I don't really know what that means, but there is a will to something specific in all of these people. Power, I guess, might be one way to define it, but it's usually something weirder than that. I think Carol Baskin has this will to like. I want to be the person who takes care of the most hurt cats, like the bagwan bhagavan wants. What? Like you see what he wants. Like this, he's built this little paradise for himself. They all want called himself. Lord. Yeah. I mean, yeah. Very clear. You're like, like, as it. Yeah. Or I'm gonna armchair therapist this Mike Ohk. OK. Big fan of the doc, aren't you? Yeah. Yeah. And most of them are harmless on the societal level because their dreams are so specific. Right. They want to have 100 cockatoos or something like that. And it's like, OK, like, yeah, I want to give more mushrooms. To 17 year old Danish kids than anyone else has ever done. Yeah, fine. Like, I mean, not fine because some kids got into some really bad health situations over there, but like, whatever. They knew what they were getting into, more or less. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's whatever. Most of them don't do societal levels of harm because of the specificity of their dreams, and I guess that's the thing. The ones that are can be fun to hang out with and that can give you cool stories are the ones who have a weirdly specific dream. And but also sometimes that dream is to see what happens if they don't let their white eat wife eat while she's pregnant. It is well it breeds that other well because like it reminds me of. Like in because of the 80s and 90s when there was a huge comedy boom. Yeah, like it. These guys would own these clubs and some of them still exist and there's like a handful of them that are very Tiger King esque type because what it is, they own their own little Kingdom that doesn't really mess with anything else. And the people that come in their Kingdom come and go, but it's theirs. So they make the rules. Yeah, like, there's certain clubs where I'm like, oh, I just don't play there anymore because you just that's you just can't. I don't have to. He has this trap where, like, that's the business model or whatever, where it's like he's going to drink 3 bottles of Crown Royal in three days and then take his shirt off after the show. You know what? He gets to do that because he's the owner and I need $1400 this week. Yeah, Yep, Yep. That's it. Yeah, that's. Capitalism too, yeah, that's that's the problem. Like that. That's a big part of my issue with capitalism is the amount of power it gives these people. Like these people are a product of of capitalism in a lot of ways. Like there's aspects of what's going on in their head that obviously I'm sure whatever it is makes these people the way they are. People like this have always existed, but the fact that they are able to hold money over other people is that the end of the day, what makes almost all of them? Able to do the the bad stuff that they do because that gives them power over people. And it is this the problem isn't it's not necessarily a bad thing to want to live on a compound in the woods. Because I have a fond dream, Billy. I have several Zillow properties. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And getting to shoot off my porch and ride ATVs with my friends and maybe keep a tiger or two and some alligators. Right. Well, when a couple of alligators, the way things are looking, yeah, I think Tiger, too, might. End up on our property if possible, and what's what's the harm? The problem is, is that they build these fiefdoms that are based on this very strict hierarchy that is them. And the only thing that really meant they're all cults, right? Even if there's no religious, like all of the people in Tiger King are cult leaders. That guy I met in his ******* ranch in Nowhere, California was a cult leader. He just only had one member, but he was hoping. That he would start two more. Yeah, that's that's what it is. And it's if we discarded capitalism tomorrow for a more ethical system, they would still exist, but it would be harder for them to do what it is they do. It would be more, it would, it would take longer and it would be a Carol Baskin situation, yeah, you have to volunteer and then this, this tiered because they're all, they're all wonderful manipulators. Yeah, yeah, all of them, because that's what they're doing to the animals is they're manipulating these base animals. And I mean, they're manipulating these animals on this base thing, like you want food, you gotta do this, you gotta do this and that's. What they're doing to these people that want to be around the cats. Yeah. And that's why my motto is never trust anyone with a well behaved dog. Just any. Anyone who can train a dog is a dangerous, manipulative person. That is my I'm taking a strong stance against the training of dogs here. Well, some of them, yeah. It's, it's, it's a bit that didn't doesn't have any legs. But sometimes you say the German shepherd is like, you can't really control and they say they're very smart, but they're like everybody I've ever talked to is like every now and then they just go nuts and you're like, well then. That'd be like, if you're like, yeah, I mean, I have this machine gun. It's pretty great. Every now and then, it just shoots for no ******* reason. It usually only fires when I pull the trigger. I mean, that's a little bit like owning a torus, actually, but. Or certain remingtons, unfortunately, yeah. You going to make things in mass. Look, triggers are hard. You can't be expected to get them all right. They're not that important, you know exactly. There's so many other parts of the gun to get right, but the trigger exactly right. Ah, Jesus. Well, Billy. I feel like, have you got any other stories you wanted to make sure that to drop out on this one before we we roll out from this special episode? I'm trying to. I mean, there's. Not like, I mean, I went to the people in Nevada. That was the one that stood up because she was a big cat and that was a very specific type of human being. But animal people are. Weird animal people are always fascinating. I mean, I've got, I spend a lot of time in Florida, so I've got I could. I'll write a book about some of these characters, cause it's just, yeah. I there's an. I know that I am profoundly driven to meet and hang out with these kinds of people in my life and it is caused me to make a number of decisions that if my life were a movie, I would have gotten murdered very quickly. Oh, I'm in a cabin in the woods, and there's a dangerous person showing me his antique. OK, you know, like. Drunk native girl in our cabin in Alaska. At 5:00 in the morning, boy, yeah. I mean, I eventually got her out, but the next day I told people about it and they were, they yelled at me not to. They were like, oh, that would have been. That could have been terrible, dude, because everyone's armed. I was like, I don't know, it was no one. It was cold. I don't know, like, Nope, just leave her and I was like, OK, alright. Just because, like, you're not supposed to let strangers into your cabin at night. Yes. Yeah. OK yeah, yeah. I I make the we make these bad calls because there there is something. Like with the Tigers, there's something intoxicating about being around this guy, which is why they're able to form cults, and the healthy amount to be around them is just long enough to realize they're profoundly dangerous. And then you leave with a story. I'm yeah. You just nailed why I love the show. That's it's because I've been around all these people. Yeah, it's scary, but when I'm watching them through the television, I can turn it off and it's just funny. Yeah. This won't be a problem for me. For me, for me. Yes, it will be a problem. It is a problem. Yeah. Societal level, it's a problem. Another lot of individuals, huh, guys? You another? Just a quick. When did you realize math was such a part of it before? I mean, because they don't tell you till later, but like, when was it clear? Oh, when I saw, when I saw the boyfriend's teeth, you know, yeah, that that was a pretty clear like, OK, that's what that's that's. I mean, there's also, like Joe's general demeanor, you can tell when people have been abusing methamphetamine for a long period of time because of their speech patterns and the way that they move their body. In a lot of ways, and the way that kind of like the their emotions within a sentence, that's when he's on the four Wheeler chasing that tornado. I was cry laughing and I was like, they've got to talk about him being on drugs. Yeah, that's someone on drugs, yeah. And my wife was like, well, I don't know. People like the Tornadoes happened there a lot. And I was like, yeah, they do. And that's why people don't chase them on ******* 4 Wheelers. They do happen a lot. They know not to do that. And I think the thing people have to understand about methamphetamine as it relates to these folks is that it isn't the cause of the behavior in in the same way that if you start a gasoline fire, the gasoline doesn't cause the fire, the lighter causes the fire, just like any other fire you. Right. But the gasoline alters the character of the fire in certain predictable ways that can be dangerous, yes. Yeah, there's certain barriers nature has put in front of that human being that math is like, we'll just get rid of those. Only done meth once, and it wasn't crystal meth, you know. It was. It was in its pill form and that was about enough. You know it it it. It it. I can see how you can lose yourself in it, because what it what it really does that's that I imagine would be most addictive is it makes it so much easier to tunnel into a task like that thing people talk about, that state of flow. Like that. Like, ******* you know, everybody in Silicon Valley is trying to figure out how to, like, hack your brain so you can be in a flow state and produce more. Meth is a shortcut to that in some ways. And I was in the one of the most blissful flow states of my life, filling up 120 gallons worth of five gallon gasoline cans shirtless in the back of a truck in rural Texas. And I was not taking the proper safety precautions, but I loved every minute of that. You get it done. Yeah. It's that and and it's that Joe is in. Joe lived his life in a state of flow until he wound up in prison because he was not thinking about certain consequences. No, he was not. No, that is an interest. That flow is like I know. Friends of mine talk about the sipping, that syrup, that codeine syrup. Oh yeah, yeah. Like. And they talk about like, oh, I was there, as a comedian friend of mine. And he was like, I was rapping and flowing like, it was unbelievable. I was like, oh, so that he's like, it's he's like, your brain doesn't work until you start talking and then it's the sharpest thing. You've ever like you. You're the sharpest you've ever been when you talk. And I was like, oh, that's why rappers, he was like, that's exactly why rappers use it. He's like because it channels this thing. And I was like, I was like, it also causes seizure. She's like, that's why I had to stop doing it. Yeah, it's that ******* DXM. Ohboy fascinating, because that's what we're all trying to. Get to is that. Yeah and I I think that. Drugs and the kind of people who can make us feel like we're on drugs are are the most dangerous thing in the world. And they're also pretty fun. So yeah, go drive out into the middle of nowhere, find a rich, dangerous person, and hang out for no more than three hours or so. I was going to say yeah, yeah. Treat them like like, it's like Vegas is 3 or four days. Treat it that kind of person. Like 3 or 4 hours. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like, don't like when when you're hanging around with the tiger, don't turn your back on them. They are both wild animals. That is, it's yes, yeah, yeah. And and if you haven't seen the Carol Baskins tick tock video. You should probably go do that, so if he's a fan of the talks, I don't think it's going to catch on. Like talks. Like this talks. You know that, John. The Chinese are hoping it will. Yeah. I don't know. I'm not gonna make it between, though. There's an easy one to make, you know, a good one. That's an easy one to make. Yeah, they can put that one together. There's enough of that from the racists that I don't need to encourage it. And like, I have an idea for like, this would be a good joke, but it's not far enough from what racist people like, from that, from that kind of humor for me to make it. It's not a race to my career, but my whole career. In my mouth, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I oh, I've got it. I could tell that joke. Gotta be careful. Sell that one. I can't do it. I'm gonna have to sell that one. That's a lot of yeah, we did eventually. Just as a coda to the story of the pedophile who saved me. We did. Eventually we we got into contact. So, like, the next day when we were in town, like, the Ayudante, which is like, the assistant bus driver, like, found us and got the woman's bag. And like, I we reached out to her on Facebook that night because we found her info written in the bag, and, like, he got the bag and we assumed everything was fine. And three years later, she messages me on Facebook. Like I never saw this message until now. No, no one ever brought my bag to me. That guy just stole your bag. It was a good time. It was a good tight end, yeah. You know, just sell this. I didn't get that back then. And that's the end of this episode. Yep, go where can people follow you, Billy Christ be with you Billy Wayne Davis on Twitter and Instagram if you want to catch where I'm going to be touring one day, one day BWD tour.com and then I have a cannabis podcast coming out April 20th. It's called grown local. Where we go to the first season is about Eugene OR and the community and people that make up their cannabis growing excellent. Well, Speaking of cannabis, a lot of dangerous rich people in the cannabis industry so hang out in rural Oregon too. It's a great place to meet them. You should listen. I was doing that edit where I was like a couple of them. I was like, oh that. Well, we're that's a different podcast, so I can't talk about that one. All right, this has been behind the ********. You can find us.online@behindthebastards.com, but there's no sources for this episode, just life experience. You can watch Tiger King if you haven't yet. It's fun, it's exploitative, but whatever. Like, it's, like, really sad. I I'm going to rule right now that it's OK to make exploitative TV about the South because of the Confederacy. Yes, that's the way we're going on this, and my whole career has been trying to. Change the correct perception of the South? Yeah. Also, I guarantee we end up doing it behind the ******** on Jeff Lowe one day. That guy seems to have so many anybody. Ugly hat like that immediately. I was like, Oh yeah, yeah. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Oh my God. Anyways, you can follow us at ******** pot on Twitter and Instagram. You can follow Robert at all. Right. OK and you can buy a shirt or a mug or a. Wall art, or a sticker, or a magnet@teepublic.com. And you can take my, again, legally actionable advice to hang out with dangerous people in the middle of nowhere. It always ends well. Or if you're bored, you can listen to the women's war. I had is also an option. You could do it on the way to where they live because there we go exactly because you're gonna you're going to be driving 90 minutes or more. Yeah, they're always like, and they always talk about like, it's a short drive. You need to ask what that means to a lot of people like that. It's never going to get a lot of direction that tells you to turn its stumps and stuff. Yeah, yeah. Anyways, this is the, this is the episode. It's over. Bye. Hello, I'm Erica Kelly from the podcast Southern Fried True crime, and if you want to go from podcast fan to podcast host, do what I did and check out spreaker from iheart. I was working in accounting and hating it. Then after just 18 months of podcasting with Spreaker, I was able to quit my day job. Follow your podcasting dreams, let's break or handle the hosting creation distribution. And monetization of your podcast go to spreaker.com. That's spreaker.com. 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