Behind the Bastards

There’s a reason the History Channel has produced hundreds of documentaries about Hitler but only a few about Dwight D. Eisenhower. Bad guys (and gals) are eternally fascinating. Behind the Bastards dives in past the Cliffs Notes of the worst humans in history and exposes the bizarre realities of their lives. Listeners will learn about the young adult novels that helped Hitler form his monstrous ideology, the founder of Blackwater’s insane quest to build his own Air Force, the bizarre lives of the sons and daughters of dictators and Saddam Hussein’s side career as a trashy romance novelist.

Andrew Tate Update

Andrew Tate Update

Tue, 02 May 2023 10:00

Robert is joined by Ian Johnson and Sophie Lichterman for an update episode on Andrew Tate.

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We've perfected the art of complimenting your curve since, always, from new denim, dresses, modern workwear and more, runway ready styles for every mood and occasion, time to stop settling and start celebrating. Shop the latest trends in sizes 10-36 now in stores and at Ashley's Subert dot com. What's apparently shockingly well hung? My young male lead from the movie Spikids, but now he's in his like 30s, so it's fine. Is that a good intro, Sophie? Is that a good intro? Yeah, I was. You spent 10 minutes before the episode talking to me about the fact that the Spikids could grew up to marry Meghan Trainor and have a huge Wang. Now everybody's going to know about it. I was discussing how, for some reason, and Ian, who is also here, Hyene Johnson, that we get on Twitter, we get this like at pop crave. Yeah, yeah. A cat that neither of us follow. Everything I know about K-pop comes from Twitter, believing that I am incredibly interested in K-pop. Well, I'm just saying. I'm just saying. I'm just saying incredibly intratably. Twitter picks things for you to be interested in. Yeah, okay. Well, well, can I just, I feel like I owe it to the listeners to read this up. To talk about this former child, Sophie, former child, so first off, problematic. Okay. Spikid. Okay. So, I'm not even, okay. Meghan Trainor causes chatter online after discussing her painful sex with big boy, husband, Darrell. Okay. Okay. I was joking about it being- Well, she can't walk after- I'm going to read the whole fucking thing. Thank you very much. Good lord. But she can't walk after sex. It's to the point where I'm like, is it all in? And he's like, just the tip. And I'm like, I can't do anymore. I don't know how to fix that. Why? They think that's what you want to see, Sophie. That's what Elon thinks he wants to see. That's what Elon thinks of me. Honestly. I feel bullied. Like this is, this is- This is the first time that I have not been cripplingly depressed in weeks. So, thank you. Oh, you're welcome. Yeah. No, this really, I was right on the edge there, Sophie. It was right on the edge. But I'm glad I got your back. Learning about this former child- That's a massive, massive meat wagon has really- has pulled me through. It's my- it's my pro-zac. Well, I just felt like the least- Well, I just felt like the least- I was formerly unaware of and their sex today. That's fair. Also, the couple that has two toilets in their bathroom so they can shit next to each other. Which, you know, all of this is fine. Well, no, it's not. But all of this is fine. But, like, why do I have to know about it? Why does Ian have to know about it? Why do all of our listeners have to know about it? And I'll tell you- All of our listeners have to know about it because you would not stop telling me about it. I'll tell you what. I'll tell you what. I thought they deserved a little bit of a- Ha-ha-ha. Before we got into this episode, what are we talking about, Robert Evans? Well, you know, earlier this year, right at the start of the day, I think, I think of this year, we did a four-parter on Mr. Andrew Tate because I thought people needed to know more about him. There wasn't at that point really any kind of comprehensive profile on him. Let's look at his life, you know, kind of covering the whole sweep of everything he'd done and how he got to be so influential. You know, and at the- I decided that enough has happened in the months since then, that it was time for an Andrew Uptate. Wow. Chris, please, please, please insert some- Snaps for Robert. Snaps for Robert. Please insert some snapping noise and some little applause, but not too loud of a pause, just like a little applause. No, no, find me like a standing ovation clip from the VMAs or something. Throw that in there, like three solid minutes. You know what? Let's bring it back. Find a pause for Meghan Trainor performing the VMAs. There you go. There you go. Make it all connect. So at the time we covered Mon-Senior Tate, he was still locked up in a Romanian jail. There was not a whole lot of good info about his early life and rise to prominence. So I had to do a lot of digging to fill in holes since there just wasn't as much out there as there is now. And what there was out there was not conveniently located in articles. It was scattered throughout literally hundreds of different video clips on multiple different websites. Now in the month since Andrew has number one been released to House arrest, A's gone through. Obviously during the time he was in jail, he had a bit of a jailhouse odyssey of his own, which we'll talk about. And he's also attracted a huge amount of reporting resources from outlets like Rolling Stone and the recently deceased Buzzfeed news. This has provided us with a lot more context about his early life, about kind of his rise to prominence, about a couple of small mysteries that we had during the initial episodes we did. In addition to that, some of our own fans, or it was one of our own fans, has done some digging on the subreddit and they found some clips from some of the tape's videos that provided some additional context on his backstory. So today I'm going to give you guys an update on what's gone down since we last talked as well as an expansion of the stuff we covered last time based on some new information. Most of the new info we've received focuses on his father, Emory Tate, and what happened between him and his family during the part of Andrew's childhood that was previously a little bit of a black box. Oh yeah, by the way, Ian and Sophie are the guests for this episode. Hello Ian and Sophie. We did it because they had to introduce you. We did, but yeah, no. Wow. How do you be back, I think? Brave. Brave of me to introduce you twice that shows how much gratitude I have. You were just so enamored by that big dick story that you couldn't, you couldn't remember what had happened. You were decommatized. Oh, yes. His eyes got glossy and everything. Yeah. So, a lot of what I have learned here comes courtesy of a user on our subreddit, chicken stuff 18, who comes through a bunch of again, Andrew's backstory is kind of scattered throughout hundreds of videos, many of which are lies. So some of the information in the videos this guy came up with was I found really compelling because we had kind of I talked a lot about Emory Tate, his father, the chess legend. We mentioned kind of one unsettling story, Andrew told about him like being shoved by him, a weird story about kind of him pulling his son out of a tournament for crying, but we didn't know a whole lot about the guy. In some of these videos that were brought to my attention, Tate admits that his father was a diagnosed narcissist, which makes a ton of sense, are he Andrew's behavior. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. And he ties Andrew, while he never like stops idolizing his father, he ties his father's likely narcissism to his eventual separation from the military and the fact that the family was destitute when Andrew was a kid. In Andrew's recollection of events, which probably doesn't entirely correspond with reality, but probably does correspond to what he was told as a kid by his dad. Emory is working for the Air Force and he has an argument with a superior officer over how to translate some sort of document that they've taken in. And Emory is unable to either admit that he's wrong or give up the argument, right? That kind of way that narcissists do, where a thing that a normal person, even if the normal person is like, well, I don't agree with this. At a certain point, you just kind of let it go usually. Emory keeps on this to the point that it makes it impossible for anyone to work with him. He is initially forced off of his actual duties and like made it to work as a janitor. They're basically like, because of how you can't let this go, you are no longer capable of doing your regular job. So like sweep the fucking floor. But he continues to be such a problem that the Air Force offers him a separation from the military. Now he has been doing this long enough that he qualifies for a pension and his superiors are like, look, this is a messy situation. We will basically put you on disability and thus allow you to like get a pension. But you have to admit to the diagnosis that our internal doctors have given you of narcissistic personality disorder. The phrase that Andrew uses for this, that his dad presumably told him was that the Air Force was asking Emory to put a price tag on his sanity. And he refused to do that and thus did not get a pension. And that's why the entire family wound up destitute. And you know, there's some evidence that this is more or less what happened. Rolling stone looked into the story. They confirmed that Emory was discharged from the Air Force in 92. And his biographer wrote, quote, superiors believed to take embellished intelligence and cited a personality disorder. Now that's a little bit different from what Andrew's claiming, you know, which was that he had an argument with a superior about how to translate a document. The way that his biographer describes it, it sounds more like Andrew was like exaggerating things, maybe for personal benefit. In any case, said biographer also notes that Emory became an alcoholic after leaving the Air Force, which interrupted his chess career and got him kicked out of at least one tournament. Um, despite all of this, Andrew continues to idolize his father portraying his refusal to acknowledge his diagnosis or accept this pension as an act of courage. And I want to play you a clip of him talking about this from an interview he did with a guy named Patrick Bet David, who I don't really totally know how to describe Patrick. He's like kind of in the, uh, the weirdo right wing grind setting communities. Which guy he in this video. He's the dude in the back. He's the dude in the back in the blue jacket. Yeah. And he's interesting. I don't know. I assume one of his cronies. Yeah. Patrick, but he Patrick did famously an interview with Alex Jones, um, kind of early and Alex's legal troubles. That's actually not bad. It's one of like the better early, like, and kind of adversarial interviews with Alex. Um, but anyway, here's Andrew talking about his father to Patrick Bet David. And anyway, when they discharge him, they said he'd narcissistic personality disorder. And the reason they said he had that is because he refused to listen to one of his commanders. I don't know the exact story. So I don't want to say it on tape, but he refused to listen to one of his commanders about a recording on a tape. And my father was arguing with him about the translation of a certain word. My father believed it slang for something else, superior believed it's something else. They went into a personal beef. It developed over months and months and months of arguments about translations and eventually I'm in my dad. I ended up being told to sweep outside for eight hours a day. And then I got to the point where my father got to charge. So they discharged him. They diagnosed him in narcissistic personality disorder because he said he wouldn't listen. And they offered him this military pension and he refused it. He said, my sanity is not for sale. And I know that line because my mother used to scream all the time when we were broke in the house. You couldn't have money, Henry. My sanity is not for sale. Because we couldn't have broke. Because that was like, bro, now we're broke, right? So I remember the bargain, Henry, we couldn't have money now we're broke. So because he became a professional chess player, he couldn't pay the bills and we were living in Indiana and South such a cargo. We were in the ghetto with no money. So I remember him saying that all the time. So eventually my mother was in English. We decided to move back to England because England had social housing. We had free house and you can get benefits and that kind of thing. We moved back and my father stayed there. So I didn't see my father very much from the time I moved. My mother was always in charge of keeping me alive and he was just in charge of giving me the lessons and stuff. So yeah, it was an interesting life. But he was a super principled man. He turned down money. What was actually interesting towards the end of his life? About three or four years before he died. No, no, it must have been way before that because I didn't have money yet. Maybe ten years before he died, he called me and said, you know, I've been principled for so long and the way the world's turning and what American government's doing. Maybe I should have just signed. Well, do you think I should have just signed? Didn't say maybe. Do you think I should have just signed? So no, dad, no, you get to live with the pure heart. You shouldn't have just signed. Your mother is saying, I should just sign it now and he's like a bad guy. Sign what exactly? Sign the narcissistic personality. So sell his sanity and get back pay. Why is that audio quality terrible? I'm just talking about a lot of people. A lot of military. I mean, you know people. That's all really interesting to me. I think parts of this are true. Back pay with stuff like disability can work kind of similarly to how Andrew describes it. I've known people who were in the military and on disability and like we're later found to be at a higher level of disability and like got 10 years of back pay or something. So it's not impossible that it might have worked some way similar to this. That said, there's definitely lots of lies in here too or at least things that Andrew's not willing to believe about his background. I think it's more on the side of lies because he talks different ways about why they moved to England at different points in time. And other clips he acknowledges that they didn't move because England had social housing and you know, they were just so poor. They moved because his dad cheated on his mother and that made her leave the United States and want to return to the United Kingdom. Although the fact that his narcissism was stopping them from being able to support themselves probably played a role in why she was willing to do that. We've got another clip here. You know, it's actually funny. I'll tell you a quick story. When my mum and dad split up, we moved to England and my sister stopped talking to my dad because my mom was upset as he split up and my dad cheated and my sister stopped talking to them. When my sister stopped talking to my dad, me and my brother obviously still spoke to him. He said, boy, he's when you're older, you'll understand. Now I'm older, I understand. Yeah, he's a girl. So. And this is what I mean by cheated. This whole idea of cheated to me is it's propagated by obviously Western society. It's propagated by the powerful females, this idea that no man should ever dare, fuck anyone but them. And to me, it's Asinine. You're Asinine, you dumb mother fucker. It's just so stupid. It looks just like, yeah, man. It's not uncommon for people to bounce when they find out their partners fucking around none of them. That's not weird. That's not like feminism, especially since it'd be one thing again. It's not just that your dad was fucking around in your mom. It's that your dad led the family into gut-wrenching poverty and then slept around on your mom and was gone all the time. And as we're going to cover, was definitely abusive, at least mentally abusive. And obviously we talked about him shoving young Andrew around probably physically abusive too. Here's a clip where Andrew talks about some of the pretty profound mental abuse that Emory subjected his children to. Oh my God, brave. Oh man. They're just supposed to be universal, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, a lot of kids are afraid of the dark. A lot of kids get over that fear, but he got over it so quickly. The most quick. The most quick of it. The fastest anyone has ever gotten over being afraid of the dark. I am self in an hour and then he's just fine and now he's Andrew Tate. And now he's Andrew's fucking Tate. It is so funny. It's not funny that like his dad locked him in a closet. No, no, no, no. It's, it's, it's, but it is funny. You just give him a night light and told him to go to bed and shout out to him. It is funny that he talked about it. That's what it's funny. It's funny that he talked about it as like, isn't this awesome? This is like my fucking badass martial arts origin story. Like my dad locking me in a closet. Really given what else we know about Emory, he was drunk and didn't want to deal with his son. Yeah. It's just, it's like, it's both fucked up. What's funny is like the degree to which Andrew like takes pride in it as like, this is what made me the tough, competent man I am today is being locked in a closet at night when I got scared. So all of this along with Rolling Stones reporting paints a picture of Andrew as a kid who showed I think always potential signs of becoming this kind of man. Although he might not have been sort of destined to go down, I don't think he was destined to go down the path that he did. Some of the conversations that Rolling Stone had with people who knew the Tates as kids when they were in the US described very young Andrew as a thoughtful and pretty well-behaved kid. One of the anecdotes I heard him in that stuck out is that during family dinners he had a lot of like younger relatives, cousins and stuff. And he was always really careful to set up the table for them to make sure that they had all of the plates and utensils that they need. This was just like a thing he did without being asked is make sure that his younger relatives were like taken care of at these family gatherings and stuff. That said, there was always, you know, again, he's, he's Emory Tates kid. There was always sort of signs of the kind of man that he did eventually become from Rolling Stone quote, those who knew Tate as a young man say they saw glimpses of misogynistic raggedosio and a need for attention, though they never imagined it would reach this point. If this Tate is a caricature, then it's one rooted in truth and morphed out of control. The character he's created is based on what he thinks masculinity should be, a source who knew Tate as a young man says. And this is the sad thing about it. He has been playing this character for so long that he has actually become worse than the character he portrays. And I think kind of the basis of his character is the way his dad portrayed himself. That's the impression that I get to quote from a, a great band. I don't know, like that's a, that's all kind of interesting to me, I would say. So I think like one of the things that you have to get here is there at kind of the core of Andrews, both that his dad who is this alcoholic narcissist who cannot admit his own failures and also cannot take care of his family. Andrews never able to put down the lies that his dad kind of tells to justify this. And at the same time when his mom leads, he's never really able to honestly process that. And I think this sort of mythic image of his dad just becomes his kind of attitude towards what masculinity should be forever more. This affects Tristan as well. His younger brother grows up rising. I always forgot about. I always forgot about Tristan. Everyone does. Tristan has, he's not interesting on his own. And other people who knew the Tates as like boys in the UK will claim that Tristan was kind of Andrews lap dog his entire life, like even as a little kid. That's certainly the way their relationship looks just from the video evidence we have today. A source described them as co-dependent, which I don't doubt and said it's like Tristan has held captive by Andrew and believes or follows everything Andrew says or does. Quote, another referred to Andrew as a father figure of sorts saying that Tristan had modeled himself in Andrews image due to their real father Emory being largely absent from their lives. And that's interesting to me. You've got sort of like Andrew who's being this carbon copy of what how his dad presented himself to children and then Tristan being a carbon copy of that. It's depressing. This is not the way human beings ought to live, but you know how human beings ought to live. Off of the products and services that support the show. That's right. And only this. Look, if there's not ads for food on for a couple of weeks, then you die. That's just the way it has to be if you're living. We unfortunately don't make the rules here and have little to no control over anything when it comes to ads. So you get what you get, motherfuckers. Sorry. And it's stopped yelling at us about it. Like we can do anything about it. Just the ads are the ads. We simply can't. Yeah. Yeah. Sound the trumpets. It's Kentucky Derby time. So saddle up for action with DK horse and official draft King's affiliate. Right now all customers who download the DK horse app can get a 100% deposit bonus up to $250. 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So additional reporting has also given us new details about the Tate's life in the UK, the Tate's lives in the UK's. Tate has claimed numerous times. What are you doing? Grammar Sophie. I'm doing a grammar. You're doing a grammar? Oh, okay. Oh, I love the show. Yeah. I'm doing a grammar. I'm doing a grammar Sophie. All right, well, I'm doing a that's not grammar grammar grammar correct. Well, then you can take that up on the grammar pod launching next month where I mainly inform people about how they can attorneys general other job titles. So let's talk about the Tate's in the UK. Andrew has claimed numerous times that he was bullied for being an American and mixed race. Some sources agreed that he seemed not to fit in and that this may have contributed to him feeling the need to prove himself. I do. That does seem extremely likely. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, just simply, simply experiencing racism as a not white kid in the UK for sure. Yeah. Yeah. I have no doubt that that was a part of his childhood. There's no arguments here about that. Um, Andrew also, those seems to have exaggerated the degree to which he and his brother kind of financially struggled in their early days. We reported in our early episodes on claims that Andrew made at the start of his kickbox in career that he and Tristan had to live on like dirt cheap, horrible, unappealing food. This like bland concoction they called flavor as a joke. In other videos, Tate has claimed that they had to steal an eaten KFC leftovers from buckets on tables because they couldn't get enough protein. Otherwise. One person who knew him early in his career said that this was bullshit. He never came from poverty. If he's saying he's gone around to nicking KFC chicken, that's a complete lie. He had a portion of Ferrari. And there are photos of the time when Andrew claimed to be living off a pilfered chicken that confirms he did have a Porsche. I actually don't think Andrew is necessarily lying here. So let me explain this. Andrew has always placed huge value on visible shows of wealth and nothing seems to do more to for his ego there than displaying expensive vehicles that he owns. I can imagine him early in a sports career, getting a big prize after winning a competition. Some of them were like $100,000. And that's a lot of money. But given the nature of his business, it's also the kind of thing you maybe get one of those every year or even every like two years. So most people would like you have to be kind of careful with that. I don't have trouble seeing him blowing most of a year's living cash on a car that he can show off with and then scrounging for the basics of survival everywhere else, right? Right. Like that car to like take some photos or something. And then taking it back or something like that. Yeah. It's all about appearances. Like that's not too far fetched. Yeah. I think that what he might not be lying about that. One of the most compelling details from that Rolling Stone article to me is that they bring up an early reality TV appearance by Andrew that I had not been aware of. In 2009, we talked about his appearance on that like fucking weird dating show thing. But in 2009, he was on another show called Ultimate Traveler, which is a British competition where young people in Indonesia like backpacked on camera and they had like different sort of challenges where who can get to this place fastest, you know, on foot or using public transit or whatever. Yeah. It seems like it was a kind of a discount amazing race. The prize was like 10 grand. And it seems to have basically been like backpack very simple backpacking challenges. And they kind of voted you had like the prize went to whoever like the other contestants voted had done best. Anyway, here's Andrew's first introduction there. My plan is to lie and cheat my way through this competition. Once in a lifetime of the tournament. Yeah. So that's Andrew. You can you can see at that early stage. He's already kind of settled on a vision for the character of himself. He's the bad guy who gets results. He's not constrained by the ethics of lesser men, he'll lie and he'll cheat. But there's also this kind of like necessary humility he has to show because he tried he's trying to break into TV. This is a show where like everyone on it is like an inexperienced traveler, which is a little more a little more vulnerability than he would admit to kind of in the present day. But here's a clip of him from that show that's a bit longer. 21 year old Anglo American Andrew Tate is a straight talking entrepreneur with his own advertising company in Luton. I'm very mentally strong about want to achieve something I will achieve it because I've never been in the situation of my life so far in my 21 years where I really want something I didn't get it. I'm not sure what my fellow drivers would be like. Um, where's kind of people would be to face people which is undoubtedly going to happen at some point during this trip. People who seek attention and in what I think are exceptionally smart, exceptionally physically capable and they have nothing to back it up. It's going to put them in my nerves. He just described himself. Yeah, it is. It is funny that he just described himself. Oh my God. Uh, yeah, that's I don't really want to like comment on his appearance or anything, but he does look like a he looks like a slim gym. He does look like a slim gym. So he because he looks like you would snap into him, right? Yeah. Um, yes. And I do mean that in a sexual way. Um, I was like, I was like, I did not, but okay. Yeah, yeah. He, I'm just saying he had more, he had more twink energy in this era than he does today. It looks like a slim gym. Yeah. Yeah. Like a slim gym. Um, so one person Rolling Stone interview described his overall attitude on the show as desperate, um, specifically desperate to be seen as the baddie. He's not as good at portraying himself that way as he will eventually become quote, this was not the impression that several people who worked in the show had of tape. One source close to the production described him as hypersensitive, recalling an incident where he during a bandana making challenge blew up at another contestant who gently mocked him for getting paint everywhere. He seemed a little bit insecure to be honest with you. They say he just wanted to fit in contrary to his extremely libidness womanizing persona. Tate did not seem like a ladies man and was rarely seen in the company of women. Another source close to his reality TV career says, I don't think he's a guy who likes being around women. If that makes sense, they say, um, his share does. And it's, it's because like again, Andrew likes to be seen around women, but Andrew also does not have like the kind of self confidence or ability to, uh, uh, the or ability to like interact with people on anything that like could be approaching a level of equals. Like he cannot be around women who are not there because they need something from him, right? Because they're vulnerable to him. Well, Robert, he was the first kid to be the quickest to be no longer afraid of the dark. So that's true. Get on to level, ladies. Yeah, ladies. This guy, not afraid of the dark. Yeah. He just seems like the kind of guy who like wants to be seen with women all the time, but he hates women. So of course he like can't like have a meaningful conversation with anyone or actually, you don't have to interact with him. He just wants to be seen with beautiful women, but he hates women like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He definitely like, he's also afraid of them though, right? We'll talk about this a little bit later. It's not just that he like hates women. It's that he's scared to be around them if he's not in total control of them because women have the ability to embarrass you. It's this kind of thing. It's also the ability, you know, I don't think he's ever gotten over the fact that his mom left his dad because it's it kind of if he processes that, it kind of completely shatters this image of his father because his mom left not just because his dad cheated because his dad couldn't do the things that you're supposed to do as the quote unquote ahead of the family. Right. He's not taking care of shit. And so like that that like it's the same. We're seeing Stephen Crowder who's was is now much less of it was a very big right wing personality has just there's this ongoing blow up in the daily wire kind of far right sphere where all of his former friends are like rolling on him. But one of the things that's come out is that he his wife is divorcing him and he went on a long rant about how this is only possible because the state of Texas allows a one party divorces right. Basically if a woman doesn't want to be married, she can leave and he hates a lot a lot of men on the right hate this. And Andrew hates this because among other things it means that like they have the freedom to embarrass you is the way he's seeing. I'm not saying people should be embarrassed. Marriage is don't work out. That's fine. You know, that's life. But that's how he sees it right. That's actually so funny. It's really fun. I mean, yeah, it is funny. It is funny because he's a piece of shit. It is funny because he's a piece of shit. Also embarrassing men is a great hobby and I encourage it to many. It's it's critical stuff. So yeah, it's kind of worth noting that like his initial life goal, right? He's martial arts. I do think he never really saw martial arts as much but a stepping stone. Maybe there was a point at which he thought he could be like a big celebrity through it. But it became pretty clear early on. He does not have the kind of charisma that was going to make that possible. He's also not good enough at working with people, I think. Sure. You know, look at a guy, you know, a fucking Dave Batista, right, who comes out of the MMA world and became a great actor, famously good at working with people. I think that's generally the case with with those folks. Andrew's just like he's an asshole. He's a giant asshole. And like he wasn't good enough to be, you know, like a partner. Yeah, exactly. Like that's just happening. Yeah, you can't get away with being the giant piece of shit if you're fucking good. Yeah. Yeah. But he just isn't. He's not like a Mike Tyson, right? Mike Tyson can get a could get away with some shit because he was very good at punching people. Certainly. Andrew Tates just kind of made it punching people. So before settling on social media and, you know, kind of being a weird online discord cult leader, his first clear goal was to become big on reality TV and then parlay that celebrity into a larger career. He decided the best way to do this was being seen as aggressive and dangerous, which is also funny because like I think about two of the three of really the biggest kind of people to come out of combat sort of sport type dealies and go into acting in the recent past. And like obviously two of them are, you know, pro wrestling, which is very different from MMA. But like, you know, you look at Dave Batista, you look at the rock, you look at, oh, what's his name? The guy in piecemate. Oh, John Cena. Cena. Yeah. John Cena is like his own kind of thing. But yeah, it is, it is interesting to me. His attitude is like, well, if I want to break in as a big celebrity, people have to see me as the dangerous asshole. Well like all of the big celebrities that came in through like fighting kind of media are like famous for being really pleasant people. Yeah, like universal love. Like that's a huge part of their brand is them is them being nice. Yeah. Cena's done like the most makeup wishes of all time and like is just like the chillest dude. Of course, people love him. Yeah. It's a man. It's interesting. Like how kind of out of the zeitgeist he is. There was a time, you know, you can look at like Steven Segal, right, who also comes out of kind of fighting sports, right, and who's famously a giant asshole and a psychopath and a rapist. A lot like Andrew Tape, but that was a really different era, right? By the time Andrew was trying to break in to start him, we in the West have decided that when we make a big fighting guy into a celebrity, we want him to be like a friendly giant as opposed to crazy asshole. Yeah, that's just where we are now, you know, you can you can take what you will from that. Anyway, I found a story about Andrew in one of these articles that I think says a lot like kind of reinforces the point we were making about how he feel his awkwardness around women. There's a story in the Rolling Stone report about a woman who visits him who visited him in Tristan in their home for a party in like 2009 and described him very differently from how he's usually described. She said it was a really good time at first. Andrew's hanging out with her and her friends. He gives her like a boxing lesson. She's having a lot of fun with him, but he's also kind of like a weird guy. She noted that he was like, there wasn't like much interesting or creative about him. Like he knew how to fight, but he didn't really have much to talk about. And he kept kind of like going over the same lines, talking about his Porsche, talking about his championship belts. And after a while, they decided like, this is the UK, take the piss out of him a little bit, right? So they she and a friend do a photo shoot in front of his Porsche with like posing with his championship belts and dressed. They dressed his punching bag and girls clothes, right? They were like fucking around with him a little bit, you know? And they posted this shit on Facebook and he blows up like what sounds like a very scary like like rage episode. He's cursing at them, calling them bitches. You get the feeling he's kind of at least being physically threatening, although they certainly don't say that he like attacked them. But like so they leave and they never see him again. But it's one of those things where like he's kind of the instant he's laughed at. He he it's like that, that just absolutely destroys any kind of self control he has. The the mirror fact of a woman laughing at him is the thing that like devastates this man. I don't know says a lot. Well so many women have laughed at him since so yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Man, it's one of the again, like one of the one of the best things you can be as a guy if you if you are interested in like not being a creepy weirdo is not flip the fuck out when people laughing. Yeah, because it happens. Just taking rejection well as a skill I think more people need to develop. Yeah, it it it it really deeply unsettles people when like you do something silly and they laugh at you and then you act like a psychopath like that makes people think that you might murder them. It's generally not fun to be around those kind of people. Yeah, it's a you know, we live in the society we live in. You should you should put a lot of focus into being someone who doesn't doesn't give off I might murder you vibes. It's important. It's a good rule of thumb. Yeah, a good rule of thumb don't seem like you might murder people. They don't like that. But and again, Andrew's whole ego is like wrapped up in seeming like a person who might murder you. Right. Bad way to make friends in my opinion, Andrew. So I think a thing I didn't get across well in my earlier episodes was this kind of added context, which I think it would it makes undeniable is this vast emptiness at the center of Andrew, right? That's what these two girls claim is that like, you know, they think it might be fun to hang out with him at first, but there's just nothing there. All he's got to talk about all he's got within him is these kind of visual signifiers, these belts in this car of success. But there's like nothing he's not about. There's no substance. There's no substance. Now we get some different stories from girls who knew him when he was younger about like how he got rich, his, his earlier girlfriend, a woman named Svet, who a couple of news agencies have talked to says that he got rich, not from manipulating girls into camming, but via kickboxing and crypto. That may have been a lie that he told her to disguise that he had earned his money via camming. It's a little unclear to me, but I'm going to quote again here with her. She says he adapted the persona of a family man. He would just say he was looking for a sincere girl with a pure soul to start a family and have three to five children with, she says. Indeed, Svet says Andrew was particularly obsessed with getting her pregnant and insisted on having sex with that protection. He talked many times about giving her pregnant and having her raise his children, she says. A spokesman for Tate says Andrew vehemently denies any allegations that suggest he urged previous girlfriends to have unprotected sex. So that's, you know, I feel like we have to put that in there for legal cases, but it is like interesting to me. All of this context, I think, fills him out and makes him a sadder example of a person. It seems like his decision to become an influencer and effectively create a coat around the image of himself as a business guru and philosopher came after he was kicked off of Big Brother as a result of the rape allegations against him. We can pretty definitely say that he exaggerated his claims of wealth at varying points and various videos. He claimed to be worth $700 million and sometimes to be the world's first trillionaire. Romanian police were able to confiscate about $4 million worth of assets. Now I don't doubt that he had more than that, obviously. It's not hard to hide stuff, but I don't think it was anywhere close to $700 million let alone to trillion dollars. Now, his former girlfriend also notes that he regularly claimed to be on a tight budget. Perhaps due to all the money he had to spend on the fancy cars and the Rolexes and other signifiers of wealth. However, the truth, the source of most of his money grew to be subscriptions to his various online schools and the war room, a series of private discord rooms for people who described as his insiders, aka anyone with $5,000 that were willing to give to Andrew Tate. In videos I watched, he tries to portray the war room as like the new illuminati. These are the most influential men you've never heard of. They could get me out of any bad situation I got into. If I get into a problem in any country, they can pull me out of it right away. I have connections everywhere. They'll take vengeance on my enemies for me. Leaked chat logs from the war room reveal more pedestrian realities. There's a video of a guy who enrolled in the war room and presumably spent all that money and did a vlog review of his time there. And he describes what the organization teaches as telling members how to become a quote, pimpin guy who looks down on women, uses them and abuses them and manipulates them to get what he wants. He provides a screen grab of a member of the war room, telling other people how to coerce their partners on camera to have sex on camera. It's that sort of stuff. It's not these James Bond types all talking about how to manipulate the stock market. It's guys being like, here's how to sexually assault a woman in profit from it. That's how to be a predator and girl. Also, guess who was a member of the war? I guess still is a member of the war. Tell us, tell us if I'm so excited. Jacob Wol. That's incredible. Oh, God. Yeah, the internet's favorite idiot boy who's only backstory. Again, Andrews talk like these, he talks about these people like they're fucking captains of industry and like former spies. Jacob Wol's entire career is repeatedly failing at obvious political scams and then getting sued like nearly into destitution for attempting and failing to manipulate an election with a series of robo calls. Great, great catch getting kid grifter. Yeah, yeah. Getting the guy who in like five different videos posed with the same cigar, people proved it was the same cigar by looking at markings on the wrapping because he doesn't actually smoke them. He just wanted to be seen holding it. He didn't have the money to buy more than one. It's all about appearances with these guys. It's all about appearances. And that's the thing with all these fucking guys. For whatever reason, cigars are a big part of it. I'll say this for Andrew. Like I am a guy who smokes cigars. Andrew actually does appear to smoke his cigars. Like he does it enough. Like he does it like a guy who like it Stephen Crowder does the same thing and so does Ben Shapiro. And I think they both hate cigars. Like they do not they are like they're doing it like it's miserable to them. Like they're kissing a snake. I will say I think Andrew actually does enjoy that. So I'll say that for him. But you know, that's not praise or anything. It just means some other guys are even sadder. Another guiding ethos of the war room is achieving autonomy from the matrix by obtaining multiple passports and citizenship. Screen grabs of 2019 war room chat logs obtained by Rolling Stone appear to show the war room instructing men how to do so. And one screen grab a user identified as Tade outlines a project to help people obtain multiple passports. Pay a price. Send old ID. Passport in the mail. And that's what you guys know as soon as we're live. So yeah, there's like pictures. Take his post and pictures of like his fake IDs or what appeared to be his fake IDs. And he's bragged about collecting passports to flee from the law in different countries, which is part of why after his arrest his one month stay in jail was extended three times. If you brag repeatedly about your access to private jets and multiple passports, that provides the government with a really easy case to put describe you as a flight risk. And criminally as well. I've seen enough episodes of law in order to know you shouldn't flaunt that kind of stuff when you're going to go to jail. No. Again, an actual a dude who was the real version of what Andrew pretends to be and thus has a bunch of fake IDs and shit because he's doing crimes never would talk about it. You don't mention the guy back. You know, never. Never. Not a fucking word. Not a fucking word. No. Like watch heat. That's how you handle this sort of shit. You don't brag about it on fucking TikTok. So Andrew, you know, once he gets locked up, this is at the end of last year, kind of goes very quickly from this sort of James Bond, Man of the World, international, Man of Mystery type of branding to unhinged tweets that he's like sending out via an intermediary. He goes like immediately from like, I am the business, you know, guru influencer ladies man to like, I am fighting ghosts in my jail cell. My favorite example is this from February 25th. I was awoken last night by an icy chill and identified a ghost in my prison cell. He was terrified and begged me not to annihilate him. I sent him back to hell with a message for the demons. I am always ready. That's just like how broken his brain is, like even in these like fake scenarios, he just has to be like the ultimate like badass, like unfazed. Like, he's, I can beat up ghosts. Yeah, I can fight ghosts. It is funny that he's gone right back to bragging about like, no, my dad locked me in the fucking closet. I thought the ghosts off on my own. Andrew. Okay, buddy. Okay. That was actually Tristan. It's just beating up his brother in jail, wailing on him. Oh, I love it. You know who would beat up their brother in the dark. Every sponsor we have for this podcast. Okay. I'll take it. Yep. There's no sign of identity theft slowing down. And why should it? More than $14 billion dollars were stolen from identity theft victims last year alone. To cyber criminals, it's a success story. To the rest of us, it's a wake up call. Your personal info is in more places now than ever. And all that exposure can make it dangerously easy to steal your identity. Lifelock by Norton makes it easy to help protect yourself by monitoring your identity and alerting you to threats you could miss on your own. If you become a victim of identity theft, a US-based life lock restoration specialist will be dedicated to your case and work to fix it. 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So there's absolutely no doubt that I recommend Lasik Plus to my friends and family. Lasik Plus is the patient's choice for Lasik. Did you know that the entire procedure takes only a matter of minutes and that most patients are back to normal activities the next day? So don't wait. Score a great deal at Lasik Plus today. But now, Lasik Plus is offering $1,000 off their Wavelight laser when treated in May. That's $500 off per eye with guaranteed financing. So book your free consultation. Visit That's The patient's choice for Lasik. Most mentioned this promotion will be treated in May of 2023 to qualify. $1,000 off for both eyes on standard Wavelight price. $500 off for one eye. Cannot be combined with any other offers. Go to for details. Ah, we're back. And we're talking about Andrew Tate in jail. There were a lot of funny moments from his, his, his, his, his, his letter from a, from a Romanianian jail. Uh, at one point, his representative claimed that he had been diagnosed with cancer and he needed to go to Dubai for surgery. This was like publicly they were saying this to all of their fans to try to generate outrage like. He's going to die in jail. They're killing him. This is a murder attempt. Um, now the Romanian government, he's in jail. They're not even, it's, I, I, I, I, I, I say I wrote tapped his phone calls. He's in jail. They know what he's saying on the phone, right? Just the way that any jail system does, right? Like if you're talking like that's the way it goes. Yeah. Uh, so they, and anyway, the calls that they listen to, uh, in them he is discussing like Dubai as a potential route for him to escape from. This is like claims made by people in the Romanian law enforcement. Uh, and since the UAE doesn't like, like, extradite to Romania, this makes sense, but also kind of backs up the government's claim that he can't be released. Uh, once this stuff leaks, Tate, like that, that, once the like claims come out that like he's, he might be sick. There's a shadow on his lung. Tate was unable to handle the idea of people thinking he was sick, even though this was an important part of his escape strategy. He's again, sickness implies unacceptable vulnerability. So he posts that. And you can't have that. Oh my God. No, no, he posts this. I do not have cancer by lungs contain precisely zero smoking damage. In fact, I have an eight liter lung capacity and the vital signs of an Olympic athlete. There's nothing but a scar on my lung from an old battle. True warriors are scarred both inside and out. Oh my God. He's so funny. It's so funny. I have a lung level lung. It's so funny. Yeah, I can't get cancer. It's scared of me. Oh, I'm going to continue what he puts in this thread as one of the most influential men on the planet. And it's important for the good of humanity that I live as long as possible. At the my current strength levels, I estimate to survive for at least 5,000 more years. With this in mind, I take my medical care extremely carefully. I had a regular check up organized in Dubai, pre-detention. The doctors were extremely interested in the scar on my lung. They do not understand how I survive without treatment. They do not know the secrets of Wudan, but this battle has long passed. He attached this photo in the thread, Sophie. Oh, oh, yeah, and I'm so sorry that I have to show you this. Lay it on me. Oh, oh, buddy. It's just him doing a high kick and posing in front of a mirror in his gym and his underwear. Oh, my God. He's going to flex the cancer away. And this guy is worried about women laughing at him, stopping hysterical. He's going to live to be 5,000 Sophie. He's going to be the emperor of mankind. That's so cool. Women 5,000 years from now will still be laughing at his bitch ass. They'll still be laughing. Oh, my God. Yeah. Yeah. They will have evolved beyond gender and they'll still be laughing at him. They will be living as like mental energy flying through the ether and laughing at him. For someone with such a fragile ego and who's clearly like really obsessed with like looking powerful and strong, it's just given us so much fodder to make fun of him with. It's like, it's so funny. He's doing it to himself. Mm-hmm. It's true. And that's what really hurts. So reporting based on sources within the Romanian judicial system suggests that Andrew directed a support campaign and may have intimidated witnesses from inside jail from an article by Buzzfeed news, RIP. Romanian authorities also said that the Tates have encouraged their army of followers to message at least one alleged victim demanding she retract her accusations. These comments are of a nature to provoke in the victim a state of fear as a result of the threatening tone they have in addressing her attempting to determine her to change her statements regarding the accused in the case. The judge noted in the February summary. On top of this in December, a US law firm representing the brothers sent a cease and assist to a woman in Florida. This is the woman who he had been holding against her will, whose mother contacted the FBI, who contacted US authorities to free her, which is what started this whole series of investigations kind of mid last year against Andrew Tate that led to his arrest. So he Romanian authorities are at least looking at this as intimidation. Andrew's lawyer Tina Glandian. Number one has said that her firm had no part in sending this cease and assist. But obviously a lot of Andrews, a lot of the harassment being directed against people who have made accusations against Andrew has occurred in a somewhat decentralized manner. Andrew is stoking it and he's certainly talking, you know, the Romanian authorities say he is directing his representatives to kind of incite harassment campaigns by his fans. But it's not as simple as just like, oh, yeah, somebody paid someone to go do this. You know, he has people who are willing who once riled up, we'll go and take action. There's evidence that at least one fan attempted to track this woman down in her home in Florida. Thankfully, he did not succeed. But there is ample evidence that other fans have executed far reaching harassment campaigns on women who have spoken out against him. We talked about Dari Agusa on our last episodes, who's that she was the young Romanian woman who when she was a child was contacted by Tate in an attempted grooming her. She says after talking to the BBC for the article we cited, she received numerous threats including a guy who found her phone number, texted her and said that he knew where she went to college and had her class schedule. Dari Agusa claims that because of this harassment, several of her friends who also had contact with Tate refused to talk about it. Quote, it's not just the people who work for him. It's that there are basically millions of men out there who really idolize these people and would do anything to protect them in their image. So I think it's completely justifiable that so many girls don't want to speak out. BuzzFeed's reporting also sheds more light on one of the women arrested with the Tates, a former Romanian cop named Radoo who is suspected of using her position to gain a legal access to a classified police database over most of 2022. A judge noted that quote, it would be impossible for the accused to access the database without support from others, which might be seen to suggest that some Romanian authorities believe a broader conspiracy exists with among members of their law enforcement agencies. That said, this all doesn't necessarily mean that there's some like hidden Tate cadre inside of Romanian policing. This could and probably is. I'm going to say this is the most unlikely explanation. Radoo is really devoted to this guy, partly maybe because she's in love, partly because there's financial benefit here. And she's bribing her colleagues for specific favors, right? This is a known problem that Romania has, bribery among public officials. There doesn't have to be like some secret like cadre of Tate supporters within Romanian policing for this to have happened. Radoo just needs to have thrown some money around. At any rate, BuzzFeed's reporting suggests that Radoo may have helped quash earlier allegations in Romania against Andrew. In addition, prosecutors said they had obtained new information from the police unit local to the Tate compound, suggesting that women had filed multiple complaints of violence, coercion, and abuse against the brothers that predated the current case. These complaints have gone unresolved, giving rise to suspicion of undue influence from Radoo. So basically, the thing he only got in trouble this time, like this whole chain of events started because he was allegedly keeping that woman from Florida held against her will. And her family contacted US authorities and that got the ball rolling on all of this. But there were claims from an in Romania and attempts to report to the police earlier that this Romanian cop quashed because she's on Andrew Tate's team. She's profiting from this with him. There are also allegations that prosecutors make that Tate ordered his team to reach out to two right wing Romanian politicians. Both of these guys are like big gender politics culture war dudes and COVID deniers. One of them is on Ukraine's sanctions list for spreading Russian propaganda. And here's the quote from Tate to talking to his assistant to telling her what to say to the two politicians. If you take the side of the guys when they get out of prison, they will make sure you are rewarded for telling the truth. That's what he told his assistant to say to these politicians. Now to be fair about that, both of these right wing politicians seem to have seen where the wind was blowing because they did not agree to work with them. And in fact, when asked by local media if they were willing to defend Tate, they said no. So it kind of seems like this was a, again, part of the Tate had this kind of belief that you know, between my money and my connections, I can make anything happen. But he flew too close to the sun. Like there's this whole thing blew up too big. So when he reaches out to these guys who normally would have loved to be associated with him, they're like, no, bro, you fucked up. Like number one cops are listening to everything you say. Like we don't want to, we're not fucking with that. We're there. Like number two, you are in a lot of trouble and we don't want to be associated with you. That's not smart. That would. When you put all this stuff together, it might be seen as somewhat surprising that the brothers were finally released from jail and into house arrest. Reporting does suggest they're under heavy watch there, so they're unable to leave the country with ease. But still, why were they released from jail? In an official summary of a late February court review, the judge who had been on their case from the beginning claimed that there were new reasons to keep the brothers incarcerated, based on the government's surveillance of their calls. And I found this in an article in the Guardian. The accused present a clear danger for public order. They made preparations to evade criminal investigation by leaving Romania and are trying to influence witnesses and our exerting pressure on the victims. But a month or so later, two different appeals court judges, both of whom were new to the case, approved the move to house arrest. There doesn't seem to be a good explanation as to why this happened. BuzzFeed's reporting claims that there's a lot, it was a lot of anxiety at the move in official circles. It's hard for me to say what's happening here, what is going to occur. There are reports from like the judges who are still on the case that the information that's come out and that the attempt to influence witnesses by Tate have prejudiced judges against their case. One experienced Romanian justice system insider who requested anonymity told BuzzFeed news that Andrews various missteps while in detention, stemmed from the influencers need for public attention and his compulsion to arouse controversy. I think Andrew Tate is not the most intelligent guy the insider said, but he probably can't help himself. And it's again, kind of unclear to me, you know, I think a lot of people were like, this is a bad sign that they've released him into house arrest. It was kind of unprecedented for them to hold him before inditing him for three months. So it's not entirely weird that this has happened. He is still like basically waiting for the indictment, which is should come before June, kind of based on the letter of Romanian law. They have to make a move kind of before June. So we will see what happens with that. I do want to talk a bit about the person that Andrew was hired to run his legal case, who is an American lawyer named Tina Glandian. Tina has made a career of working for high profile clients. He hired a woman. Yeah. Oh, yeah. She is a surprising, what in some ways a surprising thing, but also not surprising in terms of like PR. Yeah. Yeah. So she is the disgraced celebrity lawyer, her past clients included. Oh my God. Her past clients included Jesse Smollett. So that wasn't a win. That one was not a downer. She also, she was not the primary lawyer for, but her boss was and she helped with Chris Brown. She was like representing them. I'm sensing a pattern. And she also represented Kesha. And one of Kesha's lawsuits against a former producer, which went a lot better. So obviously this woman, you know, you win some. You lose some. Uh, I found a very puffy PR piece. Pusted for that first of all. I mean, yeah, that case she was in the right. Uh, I found a very puffy PR piece about her on a website called Dan's Papers that included this quote. Glandian's legal counsel has proven invaluable accountless celebrities, professional athletes and entertainers. Her list reads like boldface names splattered on page six, representing a list of such as Kesha, Mike Tyson and Chris Brown. Glandian was also the lead attorney in the Michael Jackson V extra jet case after Jackson's charter jet was illegally wiretapped. I am inspired by a desire to help people, particularly the underdogs. Glandian says the feeling that someone is relying on me to tell their story or to write a wrong is a great motivator. I strive to give my clients a voice and to be their most zealous advocate. So you know, she sounds nice. She also claims to be a dedicated woman's rights activist. Sometimes what Glandian is not conducting business or trying cases, she is an outspoken advocate and a champion for women's rights, both nationally and internationally. She's a you, you and a representative for the Armenian International Women's Association and part of the commission on the status of women. So that's good for her. That's good for her. Because when I think women's rights activist, I think lawyer who helped Chris Brown. Yeah. Look, you know, take that paycheck, right? You can represent women later. Or like girl, don't. No, you got to get paid first, Sophie. Got to get paid first. And then you can represent Kesha briefly, but successfully. So since being released from jail, Andrew has continued to post. The funniest post I found from him since his release, he's uploaded a like a picture to Twitter of a bunch of little electric scooters, like 10 of them in the Walden yard of his compound, because he's on house arrest with the text. They raided my house and took all my cars, so I bought 10 new Bugatti's. So that's sad. He still maintains his absolute innocence and says there's a 0% chance of him being found guilty. One video showed him walking around a room in his house, smoking a cigar while he says, since last year, I've been in 24 hour lockdown, no yard time, pacing a three meter cell with zero electronics or outside contact, absolute clarity of mind, real thoughts, real plans, vivid pain, one hour home, and I can't stand my phone. Some habits die hard. We must defeat Satan. Like, what is he even talking about? Some habits die hard. We must defeat Satan. I mean, it sounds like a guy who's a guy. I mean, he says, shy, Tim, because he's like doing a doing a doing a, a Muslim thing, which I still don't know how serious he is about this, but like I am still kind of, I'll be honest with you. It is unclear to me if he's trying to play this, right? Like if he's, if this is like, if he thinks that this is a smart play, or if he's actually coming unglued. And I guess we won't know that for a while. I mean, I don't see, this all seems weirder than some of it. He's always had bits of this, like martial arts mysticism has always been a piece of him, and a piece of his like, his like public profile. It's so much more now than it was before. I mean, I think, I think there's only one logical conclusion here is that the ghost one. The ghost one. He's being piloted by the ghost. It's driving his meat suit. He's been possessed sometimes. Yeah. I think that's the truth. That's the truth. Well, keep us posted. Yeah. All right. That's the Andrew uptate. I hope you all have had a good time. It wasn't as bad as it was, yeah. So there's that, I guess. No, no, it's mostly funny. We'll be back Thursday because I found some books Andrew wrote. We'll be talking with Shireen Lonnie Unis about those. But until then, you can find us in various places on the internet. I have a book called After the Revolution. You can just type it into whatever you find books. Ian, you got anything to plug? No, I mean, you know, just cool zone media. Keep it moving. I'm on Twitter and Instagram, Young Hershey, YUNG. I don't really tweet or post that much anymore these days, but I'm thinking about trying to get back into it. Maybe the fans will give me some inspiration. So. Oh, yeah. Posting is always a good idea. Follow Ian, you coward. Yeah. No. Yeah. Maybe you guys will give me back like as terminally online. So let's do it. Oh, actually don't follow Ian. That sounds bad. That's the life we want for you. I think I would, I think you can sue me if I tried to urge you to become online again. That's like a hostile work environment. That doesn't sound safe. Yeah. Anyway, that's the episode. Go to hell. Bye. I love you. Bye. Behind the bastards is a production of cool zone media. For more from cool zone media, visit our website Or check us out on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. It's been almost a year since I got my LASIK at LASIK Plus and I'm still seeing 2020. It's changed a lot for me. 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