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Bramble. This episode is presented by DoorDash. Use promo code Anything when you download the app for 25% off and zero delivery fees on your first order of $15 or more. While I'm driving, the high G accelerometer on my Apple watch is checking for extreme changes in force. The gyroscope is scanning for sudden changes in direction and the barometer is watching for pressure shifts indicative of an airbag going off. So it can detect a car crash, then offer to call for emergency help. And all I have to do is drive. Apple Watch Series 8. Now with car crash detection. The future of health is on your wrist. iPhone 8 or later required. Emergency SOS requires a cellular connection or Wi-Fi calling with an internet connection from your Apple Watch or nearby iPhone. Hello. I feel like every day. At least once. I catch myself reading an article about celebrity drama. At least once a day. I catch myself on my Instagram Explorer page reading about some drama about some celebrity. Okay. Not a day goes by. And every once in a while I'll look in the comments section. And I've noticed a theme. There are two types of comments. Some comments are just about the situation being reported on. You know, people putting in their two cents, sharing their opinion, etc. The other comments are people saying, take this down. Stop talking about this person's private life. Fuck you. No matter what the situation is, no matter what the drama is, there are these two types of comments. I will say there are less comments saying, take these posts down. This is not good. Don't share this stuff. When the drama is about somebody doing something morally wrong. But even then, I've seen people say, let them handle this privately. Like, yes, they fucked up, but let them handle it privately. And this just really got me thinking about this argument about how much privacy do celebrities deserve. And it is a complicated, complicated dilemma. And I wanted to deep dive into the dilemma today and just talk about it. And share my thoughts, share my opinions, have an open conversation with you all and we'll see what conclusion we come to. If any, probably won't come to a conclusion. But I don't know, it's just something interesting to dissect and there it is. I'm particularly excited to talk about this topic today because I feel like I can offer a really unique perspective as someone who is sort of in the middle of this dilemma. On one hand, I am in the public eye. I've had paparazzi take photos of me. I've had paparazzi follow me only a few times, maybe three times in my life. But let's count it. It's happened. I've had people take photos of me without my knowledge in public. I've had private information about me leaked on the internet. Whether that's like super private information like where I live, whatever. Or it's just stuff that I didn't share myself like about my romantic relationships. For example, stuff that I didn't necessarily want to put out there and more. I've experienced that side of things. But on the other hand, I would say that what I've experienced has been pretty mild in comparison to what some experience on a daily basis. Some people are followed by paparazzi every day. Some people can't even eat at a restaurant at all without maybe being harassed in a certain way. Maybe it's paparazzi, maybe it's by fans who knows. Some people constantly have their super private information leaked to the press on a constant basis. And they can never get settled in their lives because they constantly have information about themselves being leaked. Some people get it really bad. I feel like I've been really fortunate. I haven't experienced anything too traumatic, right? So I'm kind of in the middle of this. And I have a little taste of both perspectives. So hopefully that allows me to provide the least biased analysis possible. But as always, you know, my opinions change all the time. My opinions are not fact or set in stone. They're constantly evolving. And who knows, I could change my mind about this tomorrow. And to be honest, my opinion about this topic has changed since even two years ago. I think my opinion about this whole situation has evolved quite a bit since I started doing stuff on the internet and becoming more of a public figure, if you will. So anyhow, before I get into talking about this, I want to make something very clear. When I'm talking about this topic, I'm mentally working in a theoretical world. I am discussing a theoretical world where everything is done respectfully, legally, politely, and rationally. So I'm not referring to the situations that are obviously wrong. For example, paparazzi, swarming a human being so that they can't walk. You know, that's not okay. That shouldn't be allowed. That's not safe. And completely invasive. And just like not okay in any scenario. Like nobody should ever be swarmed in any scenario. That's just not okay. Sharing somebody's address that puts them in danger or showing their home in a way that makes it obvious where they live. That's not okay to me at all. Showing somebody's underage child, like their baby, if they don't want their baby's face out there, like that to me isn't cool. So like I'm more talking about a fan, seeing a celebrity across the street, taking a photo of them, putting it on Instagram. I'm talking about a paparazzi seeing a celebrity out and about in a public location, taking photos of them. I'm talking about a story, about a celebrity encounter, you know, from somebody who encountered a celebrity, you know, whatever, that coming out, or a true story about something, you know, coming out, whatever. Like it's all, so this is kind of, we're working in a theoretical world here because there's always going to be things that happen that are just not okay. Like there's always going to be situations like that, but I'm not talking about that when I'm discussing this moral dilemma. I'm discussing this in a more simplified way for my own well-being because there are too many facets to this to touch on every little piece of it. So anyway, let's start with the first side to this argument, which is basically taking the side of the public and believing that part of being a celebrity is accepting that any part of your life can become public, any part. As an individual, if you choose to be famous, you also choose to take the risk of your life in any part of your life becoming public in some way. So it's not wrong for the public to have access to your personal information, your personal life, and not only that, but the public is allowed to have an opinion about any information that's publicized about a celebrity. And in a way, the public is actually sort of even owed the information because people who are fans of celebrities deserve to know information about celebrities, whether or not the celebrity wants that information out there because the fans are the ones that made said celebrity successful. So they are in part owed information about the celebrity. So I would say that's argument number one. Now I'm going to go into what parts of this I agree with and what parts of this I disagree with. So to start, I agree with the sentiment that celebrities do in part sign up to be famous every day. If you are famous and that is your job to be a celebrity in one way or another, you do kind of choose to do that. You choose to continue to do that. Every day when you wake up, you choose to stick with it. You know, nobody is just famous. You know what I'm saying? You do have to put effort in in a way to remain famous once you are famous. You have to be accessible to the public in order to remain famous. There has to be tangible content of you out there on the internet for you to remain in conversation. And you choose to show up to certain events. You choose to play concerts. You choose to act in movies. You choose to post on TikTok. You choose those things every day. That is up to you. You do choose to put media content of you out there for the public to see. You do choose to do that. And that feeds the beast. So if you keep putting out whatever form of media you put out, you are agreeing to still be a celebrity. So I think that putting that responsibility on a celebrity is not wrong because it is true. Celebrities could disappear if they wanted to. Let's take somebody very famous. Kim Kardashian. For example, she is probably one of the most famous people in the world right now. Let's say Kim Kardashian was like enough is enough. I don't want to be famous anymore. It would take a little bit of time, but I can almost guarantee you she could go under the radar. She could distinguish her fame. That's not the right word. Extinguish. Distinguish. Extinguish. Now I need to pull up the dictionary again. Why do I try to use big words? I should just keep it simple. I haven't read a book in a while. So my grammar is not as good as it once was. Okay. Distinguish. Not the right word. Extinguish. Which is to put an end to annihilate. As I was trying to say, if Kim Kardashian wanted to. Distinguish her fame. It might take a little bit of time, but I think she could do it. How I imagine that she could do it is a combination of a few things. Number one, she could delete all social media and stop doing all media presences in general. Delete all social media. Stop doing appearances in general. Don't go on Jimmy Fallon. Go on James Corden. Cut it off. Stop doing it all. No more billboard campaigns. None of it. She could just cut it off and say I'm not doing anymore. She could do that. She could delete everything. So now nobody can really find her on social media. She doesn't exist in that world anymore. The online world. And then on top of that, she could move somewhere a little bit more off the beaten path. She could move to anywhere. She could move to, I don't know, what's a good place that she could move to Canada. I feel like if she moved to Canada, like if she moved to Montreal, or like British Columbia, and just lived in a cute house with her family and just took her kids to school and worked on her businesses in private. And that was it. She could have a pretty private life. It might take six months. It might take a year to kind of get to a point where the media is no longer getting fed by her. Like she's not involved in anything. So there's nothing to talk about. And then I think over time, she would sort of become less famous. I mean, people would be talking about her less. They would always remember the time when she was famous. And every once in a while, she might get paparazzi. If she shows up in LA or New York or whatever, and people are like, oh my God, it's Kim Kay, she's back, whatever. But it wouldn't be the same. Like she wouldn't be living in this constant state of being in the news constantly, constantly being talked about. Her fame would decrease substantially. And the media would find somebody else to talk about. The people in general would find someone else to talk about. Somebody who is more involved in the industry and somebody who's offering more things to talk about. Because if you don't participate in the events, in the talk shows, in the social media of it all, then there's nothing to talk about. You're not providing any information for people to talk about. And beyond that, if you just live in normal life, you're just a normal mom. And bring your kids to school in your small town that you live in. You live on a farm. Maybe you have a cow. Maybe you don't. Maybe you have a farm. Maybe you don't. Maybe you just have a small garden with herbs. I don't know. But like you just live a normal life. I can almost guarantee everyone will get bored because they're like, okay, love for Kim Kay that she's gardening and taking her kids to soccer. And like that's it. Love that for her. But I'm bored. Buy that and I don't really need to know about that. Like there's nothing to report on. So that is why I sort of agree that to a certain extent celebrities choose to be celebrities. You do choose every day when you wake up to do that. And you could quit if you wanted to. It might take some time to sort of phase yourself out, but you could. I also sort of agree with holding celebrities sort of responsible for the way that they behave in public. For example, let's say somebody just got into a new relationship and they want to keep that relationship private. But then someone takes a photo of this new couple out and about and then they post it. As long as that date happened publicly, you know, in a public place, I mean, again, if you're choosing to be a celebrity and you're choosing to, if you are in public and you make certain decisions such as going on a date with somebody if you want the relationship to be private, it's like you know that there's a chance. You know that people are curious about you and that they might be excited that you're dating somebody new or that to a certain extent, I kind of think that that is sort of fair game. Now, I do think that there are absolutely exceptions to this. Like for example, if a celebrity, you know, just had a baby and they're carrying around their baby in public because you have to do that when you have a baby, you know, I think the baby's privacy, that is important. Like I think that that's not fair game. Like that's a child, you know, and so I do think that there are certain exceptions to that where it's like, no, that information should remain respected, respectively private. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know. But I think that certain behavior in public is sort of fair game. For example, going on a date, somebody sees you out and takes a photo of you. I don't know. I don't know. That's a tough one. Like I kind of think you sort of got yourself into that situation or you know, if you go to a party one night and you get super drunk and you were like kind of not mentally there and then you decide to pee on the front of a building. Again, like even though that's a bad decision and you shouldn't be doing that and everybody makes mistakes and hopefully you learn from it and so hopefully people can understand that online. I don't know. Even though it's kind of incriminating, it's not a great look or whatever. At the same time, as a celebrity, you should know that there's a chance that your bad decisions might get broadcasted. It's just a part of it. Or if you get caught cheating on your lover, you know, and that gets released, it's like it sucks. 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I don't think that that's necessarily fair or logical because the idea that anyone is deserved anything from anyone else just creates a really messy relationship, even if the relationship is parasocial. Parasocial meaning through the internet, through the TV screen, through the computer screen, is not a real-life relationship. Yeah, I just don't think anyone deserves anything from anyone else. Okay, so now let's start talking about argument number two, which is more in favor of the celebrity and their privacy. Argument number two, fame is often unexpected. Even if you wanted to be famous or you tried to be famous or you've been trying to be famous and it comes true, no matter what the scenario is, anybody who's famous. Number one, didn't know if it was ever going to happen. And number two, didn't know how large of a scale it would get to. It's impossible to predict that because somebody's level of fame is completely determined by the public. What is the public care about? And no one can predict that. No one. So in a way, no one ever really knows how famous they're going to get. If they're going to get famous at all, when it's going to happen, why it's going to happen, et cetera, it's impossible to predict. So fame is unexpected and its scale is not up to the person who is famous. Let's take a musician, for example. They start putting their music out there. It gets really big. They probably wanted some notoriety for their music, because that's how the music industry works. Even if you want to remain an indie artist forever and do things more on your own and whatever, you still probably want some notoriety for your work because that's how you could turn it into potentially a job. So if you're putting music out there, there's a good chance that you want it to get listened to and accumulate fans, right? But whether you want to be the biggest pop star in the world or you just want to be a small indie artist, you can't control where you're going to end up. Somebody who wants to just be a small indie artist could blow up and be the next hairy styles just because people like them. Somebody who is dreaming of being a huge pop star might only ever get to the size of a small indie artist. You know what I mean? It really is up to the celebrity, how famous they become. It's up to the public. They're responsible for showing up every day and continuing to put content of them out there into the world. They're responsible for that, but they're not necessarily responsible for how large it gets because they can't control that. Argument number two also is that personal information about them should remain personal until they, the celebrity, decides to share it. And the public should not be allowed to access information about the celebrity unless they say it's okay. So like in this sort of sphere, this sort of belief, you know, it's like celebrities should be able to keep whatever private, private period. And they don't know the public anything and anything that is even remotely invasive on a celebrity's private life should not be allowed to be posted. Now before I even get into what about this I agree with and what about this I disagree with. Don't get me wrong. That belief, I mean, I love it. Like I love that idea. You know what I mean? Like I, in an ideal world, in the perfect world where everybody respects one another and everybody, you know, loves one another and whatever. Like in an ideal dream world, a dystopian dream world, that would be the case. Truly. I love that. But that's not how things work. Like things just don't work like that. There's always going to be people who are motivated by money and people who are motivated by other devious things. And they'll want to make their money and do their devious things in however way that they want to do it. And if that's by being a paparazzi and getting sneaky shots of a celebrity when they're at a bar with their secret boyfriend or whether that's like, you know what I mean? There's always going to be people. Like I just can't imagine a world where that's ever going to become fully regulated. And that is unfortunate because trust me, I think it would be nice, you know, if celebrities could control their image completely and hide what they want to hide and show what they want to show. I mean, that's, that sounds great for them, you know? But I just don't think that that's ever going to be the case. Truth be told. And so because of that, there are still, there are things about this sentiment that I agree with and I disagree with. So let's start with what I agree with. I agree with the fact that celebrities are humans too. I know it's easy to go read an article about a celebrity, even one who did something wrong and be like this person is the most evil person on the planet. The truth is is that everybody, I mean, okay, it depends on how bad the thing is. Let's just say that. Like it depends on how bad and wrong the thing is. There are, there are levels to this, you know? But let's say something more embarrassing happens to celebrity and everybody's making fun of the celebrity. That's a safer thing to talk about because there's less extremes with it. The celebrity is a human too. I know it's easy to laugh at them because maybe they have a lot of money, they have a lot of resources in life. All of this, trust me, I know. But at the same time, I think we all could benefit from looking at every human being, famous, not famous, rich, poor, whoever by looking at all humans with the same sort of humanity, no matter what their situation are. And I know that a lot of times celebrities don't get that same grace and I understand it, but I think that in general in life, you know, it's good to remember that no matter how amazing someone's life looks, it's worse than you think, 90% of the time, you know? It's usually worse than what then it looks. Celebrities are no exception. These are not, they're not necessarily happy people. And I know it seems crazy because it's like, what? How? Because they have it all. No. And I think I've made an episode before about why celebrities are not happy people. I'm pretty sure. And if I haven't, I'll do it at some point. But like, they're not happy because, well, whatever, I'll get into it later. But celebrities are not happy people. There is honestly a good chance that you might be happier than your favorite celebrity. I'm dead fucking serious. And it sounds crazy because you might be thinking, well, but celebrities don't struggle as much. It's weird because there's a whole other slew of things that make them unhappy. Nobody gets to go through life pain-free, okay? Trust me. The universe finds a way to make sure that everyone suffers, everyone. And you know, it's all on different scales. It's all relative. But celebrities are not happy people most of the time. And so all of this to say celebrities are human too. Some of them shitty human beings. Some of them truly good-hearted human beings. Now, regardless, they are human too. When it comes to what they share with the world on their own accord, you know, they don't have to talk about anything they don't want to talk about. They don't have to share any information that they don't want to share. Their human beings, and they deserve to talk about or not talk about whatever they don't want to talk about because, again, celebrities technically don't owe anything to anyone, right? That is not to say that they aren't responsible for the way that they behave in public. They definitely are. But when it comes to themselves verbally speaking, talking, sharing about themselves, they don't owe any of that information to anyone. And what they do in their private home, what they think about in their private home, what they watch on TV in their private home, what they cry about in their private home, that is all allowed to be private. That's one of the only things that celebrities truly can keep to themselves. And I think that that should be protected, you know? So I consider, you know, a celebrity's private thoughts, private home life, private information in general, yes, that should never be touched by anyone. One, two, is pretty much in line, I would say, with what I think is morally correct, right? I honestly don't think that there's anything I necessarily disagree with with argument two. The tough thing is, is that there are a lot of really incredible things I would say about being a celebrity, right? Being famous is cool, it's an ego boost for some, not for all, but for some, you know, there's a lot of money in being famous. And a lot of people, you know, believe that that will bring them ultimate happiness, although I think that's not entirely true at all in a lot of ways. You know, you can have the coolest friends in the world if you want, like, well, in theory, the coolest friends in the world, not actually, trust me. But like, you know what I mean? It looks gleaming and glamorous from the outside, it looks like the perfect situation. And there are a lot of great things I would say about being a celebrity. One of the biggest things is the financial freedom of it, but also the fact that you are being recognized for your talents or your strengths or your intelligence, whatever it may be, you know, being recognized for what you're good at is awesome. You know, that's an awesome thing. And being able to build relationships with your fans, that's a magical thing as well. 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Let's visit drinkcircle.com slash Emma that's drink C-I-R-K-U-L dot com slash Emma to get this limited time offer today. Again, that's drinkcircle dot com slash Emma. Like the fact that if you, you know, you kind of have to keep your shit together. There's an expectation that you keep your shit together and there's a lot of pressure to not fuck up. But the truth is everybody fucks up. It's everybody. Celebrities are not. But celebrities have to worry about it being broadcasted to the whole world. And even though to a certain extent, it's like, what can you do? You're famous. I don't know. I don't know. It's so hard. It's hard. Because in an ideal world, celebrities could fuck up like everyone else and not have a broadcast into the whole world, you know, something could happen in their life that they don't want to talk about. But somehow it gets out there and people find out about it and whatever. Like in an ideal world, everybody would be allowed the same level of privacy. But at the same time, I think that, okay, I'm about to get spiritual. Oh, no, I'm scared. I'm about to get a little bit spiritual because I'm about to talk about the universe. Okay. And you can be like, Emma, what are you talking about? That's fine. But here's the way I look at things. Okay. I don't practice any religion. I don't know. I'm kind of just doing my own thing in my head. Like, my own spirituality is sort of just personal and kind of more based in morals and just kind of like the way that the universe seems to present things. That's kind of my spiritual. Actually, if you want to hear about my spiritual beliefs, if you will, I don't even know if I'd call them beliefs, but sort of my spirituality in a sense. I do have an episode about that. So you can check that out. But anyway, I feel like the universe never lets anyone have any imbalance. The universe to me always feels very balanced. So for example, it's not always that way. May I say it's not always that way. There are times when this sort of loose belief that I have is proven wrong. There are times like that. So don't get me wrong. But I feel like a lot of times with majority of things in life, there's always a yin and a yang. There's a positive and a negative. There's balance. And I think with being a celebrity, there is yin and yang happening. Because on one side, you have this incredible glamorous life that everybody aspires to, or not everybody, but a lot of people aspire to. But then on the other side, there's a lot of fear of drama coming out about you, embarrassing stuff coming out about you, and everybody in the world seemingly talking about it. There's that fear. There's also the fear of not being able to trust anyone. There's the fear of being a target of crime, because you're like a public figure, whatever. There's that fear. There's the unfortunate but real fact that anytime you're in public, you're kind of subjecting yourself to the world watching you, possibly taking photos of you, possibly trying to interview you in the middle of the street. Like whatever it may be, that is just a part of it. And so walking down the street in New York with your headphones in, maybe was a relaxing and rejuvenating experience when you were younger, but then now that you're older and you're an actor and you're really famous, whatever, you can't do that anymore and that gets taken away. You can't go sit at a cafe and enjoy the cafe like you used to. That might be different now. And a lot of the things that you once enjoyed might be taken away from you and away. And I think that that's why being a celebrity is not a perfect situation because on one hand, yes, you do get these crazy amazing things, whatever. But then on the other hand, you get some really shitty things too that's sock. So I really do think it's a very balanced situation. The fact that you have to sacrifice a lot of things to be a celebrity. You know, you don't have to, like you have to sacrifice a lot and that's up to you. You don't have to sacrifice a lot. You can quit. You can run away from the whole thing and just be like, I'm over it. I'm done. I'm done. I'm done. If you want to be in it, you do have to sacrifice things. And that's how life works. You know, for anything really good, you have to sacrifice and maybe experience some really bad things too. That's just the balance of the universe. I don't know. Now I'm sounding crazy. So that means it's time to wrap up the episode. Love you guys. I'm done. Let me know what you think about this sort of dilemma. You know, it's obviously very complicated. There's a lot of situational things like, you know, sometimes this is true. Sometimes this is not true, etc. But I don't know. I don't know. Like, what do you guys think? Let me know. You can tweet me at AG podcast or DM me on Instagram at anything goes. You can follow anything goes on those platforms as well. And you can follow anything goes on any platform, you stream podcasts. You can also check out Chamberlain Coffee, which is my coffee company. Pick up some delish coffee or other coffee and tea related products over there. Use code AG15. If you want a little discount, special for anything goes listeners. I don't know. That's all I have for today. Thank you guys for listening. Please let me know what you think. Let's have a respectful, open-minded conversation about this because that's what makes life so magical. Being able to have conversations that allow you to learn by pushing your own boundaries, pushing other people's boundaries, questioning things, and just learning and thinking. I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about anymore. Thank you guys for hanging out today. I really love and appreciate all of you. And I don't know. Until next week. Have an awesome week. Talk to you next week. Okay. Bye.