Anatomy of Murder

A murder case has many layers: the victim, the crime, and the investigation. To truly understand it, you need to dissect each piece of a tragic puzzle. Join Anna-Sigga Nicolazzi and Scott Weinberger every Wednesday for an insider’s perspective, as they reveal to you the Anatomy of Murder.

Heading West

Heading West

Wed, 12 May 2021 07:00

A young woman rides off into the sunset, heading west with her boyfriend. She mails her younger brother the gift of turquoise and says she'll be back... but she never returns. For episode information and photos, please visit

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If you're looking for a new show unlike anything you've ever heard before, check out audio Chuck's latest series killed. Each episode of killed covers a story that you may have never read because it was killed before it got published. I'm Justine Harman, who some of you may know from my show OC swingers, and I'm here to bring these dead stories back to life binge killed right now to get the full story. Hi everyone, Ashley Flowers here and I have exciting news to share. My debut novel, all good people here is officially out now. Our fans are blowing up our social talking about it. You do not want to be left out and the worst thing that could happen is for someone else to spoil it for you because there are some wild twists in this book. If you love true crime content, mysteries, and a grown up Nancy Drew style detective work then I have a good feeling you won't be able to put this book down. So what are you waiting for? Grab your copy of all good people here now, wherever books are sold. You know what I missed the most, honestly? Sitting out in a baseball field over by my parents house and we would go out there and just sit on the grass, talk about we're never going to be apart when we grow up. Our kids are playing your kids and maybe we'll have a house next to each other. What are we going to be doing in 10 years? Just those alone times with. Probably the coolest person I've ever met in my life. I'm Scott Weinberger's, investigative journalist and former deputy sheriff. Clasie, former New York City homicide prosecutor and host of Investigation, Discovery's true conviction. And this is anatomy of murder. Today's case really drives home the power of relationships. That can be between siblings. We're talking about Brenda Jerreau and her brother Bill, who I spoke to for this podcast. We were raised by so many different people and the only person that I trusted hug cried to was my sister, and vice versa. The two of them grew up really in the late 70s. They were raised in the northeast. But the thing about this brother and sister was that a lot of their youth was spent separated and in foster homes. At an early age we became very aware that it was just the two of us and then when they separated us it was horrible. Brenda and Bill would be relocated to several homes. Brenda would be in two separate foster homes. Bill would find himself in a total of seven. While the two were physically separated, in their mind they really stayed together out of love for each other, but also really out of mental necessity. The happiest times is when our social workers would pick us up if we lived in separate foster homes and would take us to the same park. Then we would just play for as long as we could and hang out together. And then obviously we were separated again because we had to go to different foster homes, and that was a lot of trauma. The foster care system I really know only as an outsider looking in. You know, over the years in the DA's office, I dealt with various people that had been products of the foster care system or kids that were in and out of foster care at different times. And the thing that really always struck me was how hard it was for so many of these kids to attach. It was rough. I'm not gonna sugarcoat it. We both went through a lot of physical, mental abuse. It was it wasn't pretty. Even though there were a few years apart, they were as close as close can be. They found themselves loving the same music. They found themselves loving the same culture, and the favorite moments that they had together was the time that they spent when Brenda took Bill to concerts. She took me to see Led Zeppelin. That was my first concert in 1977. I was 14 years old. It was amazing. I mean, we we did stuff, you know, that I should have been 18 and she should have been 25. By the way, this concert was the first concert I ever saw two the very same show, the very same year. The things you learn about one another during this podcast, I did not know that. So I really, really relate with what they're saying, and I think about the two of them. It's one thing not to have two parents. It's a whole nother level to literally be torn away from your siblings, which are really your only security at that point. It's one of those things that it's hard to wrap your head around, and it's one of the things that we also wish. And no child ever had to go through but these two. That was their upbringing. That is all that they knew. So let's talk about Brenda. To describe Brenda, you would almost have to watch the movie Woodstock. She was just a flower child, if you will. Smiling, outgoing, had so many friends and so many people wanted to be her friend. Just a happy girl. Brought up in the 70s in Nashua, NH, it's a small town of only 88,000 residents and it really had a New England vibe, if that's a word. You know which fit perfect for the 21 year old foster care, not these two are living the times and for a while they did live under one roof. She married, we were brought back together, we moved into my father's new wife's house and it was more normal. You know, I always relate the 70s anesthesia to music and to fashion. Of course, fashion is not my thing, but music definitely is. But one story Bill told you really stood out to me. One time a friend of mine had one of those VW buses and we took that to Lake County and our goal was to meet Steven Tyler because we heard Aerosmith had a house on Lake something. It wasn't a very thought out plan. So when we got there we realized it was a lake and we didn't have a boat. So we borrowed a rowboat and we paddled out to a little Cove where the. Supposed Aerosmith house was we were probably chased away and we left. We didn't know what to do because our day was to hang out with Steven Tyler from Merrill Smith. So we rode back to the other side of the lake. Turns out there was a party going on. We ended up partying with these people hanging out. When night came, we had to leave and we actually took the rowboat. We put it on top of the Volkswagen bus and we called it day Tripper, and we just had the best thing, I think it that day. A lot, actually. Throughout it all, these two were thick as thieves, until one day Brenda was going to break some difficult news to her brother. We actually had breakfast together, she said. You know, would be a great idea. I'm going to Pierce your ear. She had bought a a gold stud. It was like a little ball stud thing, and job showed up. Brenda had a new love interest that she met at the bar, that she worked as a bartender. His name was Jack Causer, and basically she had told her brother Bill that this was a guy she really had fallen for. She looked like Rick Springfield's shoulder length black hair, medium size, maybe 180 pounds. She meant Jack at OJ's. Is, for lack of a better description, a biker bar and Brenda worked there to try to make money. The equivalent to everyone seeing the movie Roadhouse with Patrick Swayze, right? Picture of that bar, 100 times worse. Very dark, very dirty and filled with very real bikers. And that's where Brenda met Jack. To a liking to my sister so he would keep coming in. First time I met him at the boy, he seemed like a nice guy, but good personality, friendly laughing, kind of a joker. The thing that Brenda had told Bill about Jack was the fact that he was kind of a free spirited guy at any moment could jump on his motorcycle and just ride and she was so attracted to that. But Bill had heard some things around town about Jack, from meeting friends of friends in particular. Motorcycle Club heard that he was bad news so I would try to tell Brenda you know what he's doing. Like why don't you know this guy? She would say Ohh don't believe what they say. He's alright. He's not so bad. You just gotta get to know him. Did have a reputation of having these bikers in there and there were rough and tumble type of guys, but apparently Jack wanted to be a rough and tumble guy. His reputation had not lived up to that. Call a wannabe. He wanted to be in the club. He wanted to have that recognition. Now let's go back to the day when Brenda was giving her brother that ear piercing. It was heart breaking into telling me that she was going to leave. We're talking in 1980. The two of them had had this kind of bonding, cool morning together. I remember her hair that day in a ponytail, the blue and white shirt she was wearing, and then the next thing he knows, he's watching his sister jump onto the back of Jack's bike and ride away into the sunset. She said. I love you, I'll be back. And that was it. And that's something that plays in my head quite a bit. But at that very moment. Little did Bill know that that would be the last time he would ever see his sister again. The day that they left, he had given me $20.00 and he said that he had a fine that he was paying off at the National District Court. And I needed to go there and pay the $20 towards it. And within a week I went to the national courthouse, gave his name and gave the $20.00 and they gave me. At the time it was a very thin, maybe 1 inch by 6 inch long seat and it had his name on it. Nothing at the time. But then one day when Bill was riding his dirt bike, he got pulled over by a police officer. I emptied my pockets on top of this police car and he saw that little receipt. And, you know, what's this? And I said, I explained, like I just said, I had to pay this for this guy. And he's like, OK, he wrote the name down those little pad. Why is it that this officer is writing down the information that was in Bill's pocket on a receipt? Well, I guess when I think about it, I always think about for police information is everything, documenting is everything. And you never know where and when this might become relevant in their world. That Scott, what's your take? The only thing I really can think of is he knew Jack, the officer being. And remember this is a relatively small town and perhaps the officer was adding Bill to what we call a known associates list of Jack Kelleher and really investiga. That's my best guess. So Brenda told Bill that she and Jack were heading to the southwest, but that not to worry, brother, she would be back. But the days came. He didn't hear from his sister, she didn't come home. Those days turned into weeks without a word. Until. Within two months, phone rang collect calls from Bernard Road. Do you accept? I said yes, absolutely. She was in the Mexico. I was a little mad at her. I was like, you know, what the hell? I thought you were coming back and we're working away a little N it's really beautiful here. This that. You know, I didn't ask about Jack. It was maybe. 4 minutes. It wasn't a very long conversation, she told me. I got I got some turquoise for you. I'm going to mail it to you. So I said, OK, that was it for another 4-5 six weeks, and then I got an envelope with turquoise in it from New Mexico. She literally mailed me turquoise. Some of you listening may not be old enough to get this, but when I think 70s, going into 80s, I think turquoise and turquoise jewelry. And so it wasn't only getting something for his sister, but it was getting the hot item and a place that he could only remember. These were kids that lived in their imagination through all that they had physically and mentally been through. And while he's missing his sister, that she had thought of him and she had sent the very thing that she thought would be meaningful. It was a large turquoise choker and then a little envelope of who's turquoise stones and I can only picture the look on his face when he opened the box. I thought it was just the coolest thing because then again, New Mexico, I just thought it was like the Wild West, like wow, they're still mining it. It was really something and I held on to that for for years. I mean when you talk to him, he really expect her to come back and bring him out West and This is why I believe. One of the main reasons she left was she went to get out of Nashua because she kept telling me I'm gonna come back to you, she kept saying New Mexico, Arizona. And back then I was like, wow, Mexico. Everything could have been Mars. It sounded great to me. Just to get away from Nashua, NH and the be out West for Bill was a really big deal. But even a bigger deal is to be reunited with his sister. I was sad she was leaving absolutely 100%, but she said she was coming back. So a month or so after that, I actually ran into the cop that had pulled us over. He saw me and he came over and I said, you know, you guys going to break my chops? And he he said, do you know this guy, John? Because it said John Tower, but I won't call him Jack. And I was like, hey, Dan Brender. Yours. You know this guy's wanted for attempted murder. So now you're saying, wait, what? Attempted murder? Who? Well, Jack Causer had actually been arrested for shooting his ex-girlfriend. I believe it's his fiancee's new boyfriend. Not only shooting him, but shooting him three times. He was charged, he went to jail, he got out on bail, and apparently that's what he's running from. I was like, are you kidding? It was like, no new goes. Where is this guy I go, I don't know. They left. That conversation was maybe 3 minutes long. So knowing that he is out on bond for an attempted murder case, you start to wonder, is that why he wanted to leave the state so quickly and go so very far away? And it turns out his record was quite more expensive than that. But I didn't find that out until years and years later. His one anchor really in this world is his sister. And he's already seen her ride off into the sunset with her new love, this guy. And now to hear this about him, I can only imagine. I mean, he is powerless to do anything. And just the idea, the fear, I mean, I just think for myself. Like, I can't even imagine thinking that my brother or sibling would be in danger in a place that I couldn't do anything to help them. And that's exactly where Bill found himself. He must be thinking, is this somebody that I really want my sister to be with? Not only that, but. Riding on a bike out of town, I mean, that's gotta be going through Bill's mind. It would definitely be something I'd be super concerned about. And then he received a second call. The last phone call was Arizona, and it was not joyful. She just said, I'm coming home straight up, like, OK. Is everything all right? She's like, no, I'm coming home. I'll see you soon. And I was like, OK, what's going on? You talk right now, but I'm coming home and I'll see you soon. Love you. OK? And then she said bye. I gotta go. And then that was it. That was a lot of time I heard from her ever. So this is the first moment for Bill to realize that things were not so rosy between Jack and his sister Brenda, and I think this is the moment he realized she could be in trouble. Arizona was kind of deflating on that last phone call because you could just tell her voice I I could that something wasn't right. But then again, I'm coming home, so, OK, things are bad, but she'll be home soon. If we're wondering about time frames, we'll all of it is a little fuzzy and we're going back and piercing this together from Bill's memory and various reports and paperwork, but it's definitely been months. So really the question was she said she was coming home, but then she didn't show. And for Bill, he's clearly getting concerned. I would have conversations with my father, and I'd be like, you know, do something and she's not back. My father can detach from reality, detached from emotions, so he didn't think much of it. When I finally moved out out of this House, I got my own apartment in Nashua. So for Bill, really the next move is to report her missing. I went to the National Police Department and I asked if I could file a missing persons report. And she had already been gone a year. And 1/2 at that point, the guy wrote it down, but he didn't write it down on like a form. He was just writing it down. And then I give date of birth and he was like, well, she's 21. She doesn't want to be found, you know the officers clearly. Pick the report. But at this point, really how much we'll be done with that paperwork? And we're talking 1980, you know, it's not like you get on the Internet and shoot an e-mail or a text or computer programs, link various things. This is all about paper. So nothing was easy about tracking people at the time. I think it was pretty limited on what you could do. I mean, what could you do? I was personally ****** because she told me she was going to come back and Get Me Out of Nashua, so I guess. There's some resentment there. Just from Bill's perspective, not only is a sister gone, but now he has to wrap his head around that. Maybe she just wants to be gone and doesn't want to be contacted by any of them, including him. Then I had the OK. She's having a good time. She really doesn't want to come back to that. She doesn't want anything to do with the family. And it was while I moved out of the house. Maybe she doesn't know how to get ahold of me, you know? How would she have my new phone number? But here's this thing that you know, I always say that you hear something new or you learn something new in every single case. And for me, this is something that I keep thinking about. It was 1988 when Bill walked into a Social Security office to get ID for his daughter. There was these fires on like a bulletin board. And it said missing persons. So I asked for information about that through Social Security, he may be able to contact Brenda by writing her a letter. And then Social Security would forward that letter to Brenda. Now, this was a big step as a way potentially to find his sister. When they told me all you have to do is write a letter, we'll send it to her. And that gave me the impression, a, they knew where she was, B, that she would get a letter knowing that I was looking for him. Please, please, please contact me. Whatever it is, I'll come to you. And it was a long letter. It was supposed to be a single page letter, but it ended up being like 3 pages. I just poured everything into that letter and I I just kept scribbling. You know, I miss you when this happened. And I don't live in Nashua anymore, you know? I miss you. Come on. Dad's not here. No one's here. We, you know, just kept writing everything that came to mind because the lady said we'll send it. But if she doesn't wear any contact with you? That's it. You know, when I think of the Social Security Administration, it's anything but warm and fuzzy. But when I think about Bill pouring his heart and soul into that letter, hoping that his sister would receive it and reading and then he just got nothing back. Like a week after I sent it to the point where they they they couldn't say they would hang up on me. In fact, the folks at Social Security wanted to keep him out because he kept wanting to find out. Did you hear, did we get any response from my sister? At first I was like, OK, she was, you know, maybe she's upset with me, maybe she really doesn't want anything to do with all these thoughts are through my head. The last time I went into Social Security and I don't know, they just shattered a dream. They were like. No, she didn't reply to that. Mean she she doesn't want you. And no, that was devastating. He believes that she's getting this letter and just choosing not to write back. So on the one hand, this is at least great news to him. She's alive and well, but I can only think about thinking that she was choosing not to respond as really a mental bomb. You know, I was trying to think that. Did I say something in that phone call that I do something. Why wouldn't you come back? And then I had thoughts of maybe she had a family. So we had one day our kids need to play together and uplifting feeling that yes, you know, even if it's 10 years from now, you know, I'll, I'll see you. So now let's jump ahead a couple of decades. A phone call would come in from a detective in Arizona asking Bill about his sister, and the first few moments of that phone call were kind of strange, bill said, because he really wasn't exactly sure what he wanted to know. But as it turns out, this would be a critical call. I get a message that a detective in Arizona is trying to get ahold of me, and then I called, and I I will never forget this call. I called him and he was very vague. This from I'm from the cold case and then he said Brenda. I can't describe that feeling when you said Brenda. And he said we have a Jane Doe that may or may not be your sister. So you might be scratching your head a little bit here, so let's go back a little bit. In 2012, in Pima County, Arizona, they're working on cold cases and they decide to exhume a body. Back in April of 1981, in the desert, a body was found by two men taking a walk. What is being murdered? And left in the desert. Like? A piece of trash. It's it's it's unbelievable. It's it's still unbelievable. And when that body was discovered by detectives, they found that that woman had died by strangulation, and the medical examiner determined that she had been killed 36 to 48 hours before she was found. And that is the body that is now being exhumed trying to identify her in 2012. And another interesting fact here at that point in Pima County, this body was the oldest cold case of an unidentified person that Pima County, Arizona. Had ever had. Anna Seger, you know how difficult it is to get an exclamation, a warrant, right? It's something that law enforcement would have to really have a solid reason, a solid piece of evidence, to determine that this could be somebody that could be identified through other sources of their investigation. So the fact that they got a warrant and did the exclamation and determined that that could be Brenda was a very big sign. And the police specifically asked for DNA samples and if Bill and his family would provide them, which of course they did. Are you willing to take a DNA test? We'll send them off and it's like, absolutely. And I'm like, you can't be branded, though. And he's like went up saying it is. It took a while after that phone call. While the DNA is in process, the police have another bit of information that may confirm that the Jane Doe is Brenda. At the time they had this rough facial reconstruction that was absolutely normal, absolutely 100% horrible, but I still held out hope that it wasn't her. I've covered stories where police and the DOE network have used facial reconstruction. Now the skull, as you could imagine, provides clues to a person's appearance, facial bones, all determined facial features in life, and is duplicated by means of modeling clay. The methods used to flesh out a face may vary, but each method incorporates a balance between science and art, and I find that so interesting. And that eventually results in a reproduction of a face that may lead investigators to an identification. While they're trying to confirm the identity of the Jane Doe, the cold case Detective Marco Odell asked Bill another question. He asked me. When was the last time you saw wonder? And I told him. And then he said, do you remember the person that she left with? And so, yeah, Jack Causer. And then all of a sudden he just opened up and said told me the story. We have a lot to unpack here about Cal Houser, so let's go back to the early 70s because his first conviction was back then when he was 17 years old, he was charged with shooting and killing a 52 year old man. He was ultimately convicted of manslaughter, sentenced to 7 years, and served one. That is a head scratcher out of Seeger. I mean, having a conviction on a manslaughter from murder and serving one year in prison, it's one of those things that make you kind of think about the system a bit. For sure, whether it's the time or the place. And we all know that until you're really know a particular case, you don't know all the facts. But for sure, one year for someone's life, it definitely doesn't seem right. But we already know he was headed West for so many reasons, including that attempted murder charge that he was facing just days before he left. So for him, you know, heading West had many reasons. I just kept hammering on Jack College. I just started getting everything I could remember. Told the story about the receipt hanging out with him at OJ's. I tried to think of everything I could that they could look into. And then one day, Bill and his wife are going to a concert and he gets news. There was around my birthday, just sat down. The band was just about to come on when the phone rang. And it was Marco Dell. And said Deanna matched. And then that was it. That was it. You know, normally DNA tests like this are just confirming what a victim's family unfortunately already knows. But here, remember, Bill thinks his sister is alive and well and just didn't want to be found. So he's actually getting this news that completely must have rocked his world that his sister is dead. And I look at that as such. A huge difference for him to wrap his head around. We often say, is there a closure when a family member learns the identity and the confirmation that a loved one? Is dead awful obviously, but if there could be any silver lining that's even possible. Maybe this he now knew she wasn't mad at him, he knew that she would never have left him intentionally and that is the reason I Sega why she had not reached out. And I get that, but now she's dead, right? And he's never going to see her again. But, you know, at this point, Bill clearly thinks that Jack is somehow involved. And I know a lot of people, and I know people that she hung out with that a lot of people don't know she hung out with. And I talked to a lot of people that were more open to discussing Jack Dahlsen than they were years ago and haven't. Conscious of what Jack was really like back then. He was a womanizer. Very abusive. Physically abusive. So, you know, everyone's now thinking that this is Jack and we're still not done with the story. And Jack Cahier was convicted of murder, but the murder we're talking about wasn't Brenda's. So as Bill is inquiring more and more about Jack from the Arizona detectives, he's learning that he actually was already in custody for another crime. Fast forward to the conversation with Odell telling me about how his wife disappeared. Then when they confronted him, he denied even newer. You know, we're in Tucson, AZ in August of 95, and there is a good reason we're going there, because Diane Van Reeth was going through a nasty divorce with her husband, Don Stitchy, and when she just vanished, her car was found abandoned by police. And police did locate fingerprints and is a reason why we're telling you this portion of the story. You know, Van Reeth's husband, Don Stecchi. His fingerprints were part of the evidence found in her abandoned car. But as you can imagine, and you probably guessed it. Dance teacher was actually Jack Cowhouse. He changed his name to a person that he knew up in Massachusetts, and he used that name for a while, and then when he married this woman, he used his real name. Causer been going by this alias for the entire time that he'd been in Arizona, and remember Brenda Gerow. She's been gone for years, so he had gotten married to Diane Van Reeth in 1986. They'd been together and at this point, a month before she disappeared in August of 95. She had gone to her lawyer to file for divorce from Causer, or she knew him by the name of Stitchie. And she was saying that she wanted sole custody of her two sons now, based on reports. Ultimately, in that case, they did find evidence of her identity cards eventually in Cal Houser's workplace, and that he had made statements, albeit not to police, that he had actually dumped her body in a mine shaft. And the reason that's so relevant is that he was charged, although Diane Van Reed's body was not found. This appeared. Her body was never found because this day, and he was convicted of that murder cause. He took a plea and he didn't actually plead guilty in that case. He pled no contest, which basically means he isn't going to fight the charges. He will be convicted and sentenced, but he isn't going to admit his guilt. And so for that case, he ultimately ended up getting 20 years in prison. And even though Jack Causer was convicted for this one murder, there was still remaining question for investigators. And when they searched him, they found a picture of a young woman in his wallet. And it looked like the facial reconstruction of Jane Doe. So they contact detectives up in the Northeast. And so now detectives up in Massachusetts start circulating this picture of this young woman. I'm looking at it right now. She is wearing a dress with flowers. She's holding a bouquet of flowers. And they put it out on social media. And that is where, bingo, it starts to jog some memories and police. Were notified that they know the woman in the photograph and it's Brenda Duro, and that's what now leads to the Garo family being contacted for their DNA. He sent me that picture of Brenda with the flowered dress and the flowers. And as we said this was in Jeff's possession, he absolutely bit about Jack and Denton said he is the last person to see Brenda that we can confirm. All of that connective tissue all coming together to bring police to the examination of her body to determine if they can gain valuable evidence from her body. And you know, at this point, that's the very place that we are today. We still do not have anyone who has been charged in the murder of Brenda Jeru. I know this person. How many people can say that? That you know the person who took someone you loved away from you. And you know, we are the first ones to say it, and we need to say it right here, loud and clear, innocent until proven guilty. Jack Causer has never been charged with Brenda Gerow's murder. And you know, I think back to another AO episode murder in the mountains, you know, the two young women that there was no charges ever filed in that case for decades. And honestly, when I read everything, it looked like the husband had committed the crime of one of the women. But ultimately, just this past year, 2021, there was an arrest and it wasn't the husband. So whether the person responsible for Brenda Gerow is Jack Causer or not? It remains to be seen. I think I lost her three times. I lost him when she left. I lost someone. Jack took their lives. And then. In 2015, you mean when they told me it was definitely her? But I guess for all of us, we just have to hope that for her family, they get answers. Brenda Jerrod deserves justice by having her killer held accountable, and her family deserves closure by finding out once and for all who took her from their lives. And we hope that by hearing this story, someone out there that maybe one of you knows something. And if you do, please reach out and help. Bill is hopeful that someone does have information that can finally solve the mystery of who killed his sister, Brenda Gerow. It'll bring justice for my sister. That's what it will do. It will bring some kind of clothes for me and my being selfish. Absolutely, 100%. This guy took away. Someone who was very, very important to me. It took away a part of my life that I'll never have. You know, for Bill, he owns two construction companies. He owns several homes. He's quite successful, married with three kids. You know, he did make it out of Nashua, NH and sounds like his life has flourished from all those days in foster care. But remember, his one anchor was his sister. So for Bill Jurow, how much we all should hope that he gets the closure he too deserves. You know what I missed the most? Honestly? Sitting out in a baseball field over by my parents house and we would go out there and just sit under your *** talk about we're never going to be a part when you grow up. Our kids are probably your kids and maybe we'll have the house next to each other. You know what? What are we going to be doing in 10 years? Just those alone times with. Probably the coolest person I've ever met in my life. So there is so much to unpack in this story, so many arrests overtime. On our website, we will have a link to stories and descriptions and photographs of each of these situations for you to get a better sense of the timeline of this case. TuneIn next Wednesday, when we'll dissect another new case on anatomy of murder. Enemy of Murder is an audio Chuck original, A Weinberger media and forseti media production summit. David is executive producer.