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If you're looking for a new show unlike anything you've ever heard before, check out audio Chuck's latest series killed. Each episode of killed covers a story that you may have never read because it was killed before it got published. I'm Justine Harman, who some of you may know from my show OC swingers, and I'm here to bring these dead stories back to life binge killed right now to get the full story. Hi everyone, Ashley Flowers here and I have exciting news to share. My debut novel, all good people here is officially out now. Our fans are blowing up our social talking about it. You do not want to be left out and the worst thing that could happen is for someone else to spoil it for you because there are some wild twists in this book. If you love true crime content, mysteries, and a grown up Nancy Drew style detective work then I have a good feeling you won't be able to put this book down. So what are you waiting for? Grab your copy of all good people here now, wherever books are sold. Camille, when we talk about the incident coming up here, I just want you to understand that I want you to go slow as you want, and I certainly am understanding about some of the facts that you don't have a lot of first-hand knowledge of, but I just want you to walk me through it. And do I never forget this is something I have to live with for the rest of my life. I just got Weinberger, investigative journalist and former deputy sheriff. Belasi former New York City homicide prosecutor and host of investigation, discoveries, true conviction. It's anatomy of murder. I wanted to start today's podcast off with a question to you. What image comes to mind when you hear the word strength? Is it someone who perseveres through hardship, perhaps even pain? A person who is strong willed? Today you will meet someone for me who absolutely defines the essence of the word strength. And this is one more thing. This was one of the most difficult and emotional interviews I've ever conducted. Her voice is soft, but her words will bring you to tears. My name is Camille Hamilton. I grew up in Jamaica, or Dauber. My childhood was good. One really interesting thing about Camille's life is that from a very young age she had one goal. When I was growing up, I always used to love to watch the fashion show, and I used to dress up. And I used to say I always wanted to be in the beauty pageant. Always love to look at the magazine, look at the pretty girl and said one day I'm going to be miswired. And you know, when people hear about these beauty pageants, we may have personal opinions about them, but for those that are involved, it can become your everything. I mean, whether it is a little boy or girl that wants to be a superhero. So every time they look in the mirror, that's all they see. Or again, someone that wants to win one of these pageants, it becomes all-encompassing. It is the fun, in a way. It's a little child's version of bright lights, Big City. After we do school work, we used to have this fashion show and I group up a bunch of girls. We start to have our own little thing. And Camille was successful at it from a young age, and that made her want it and care about it all the more. When you love something, it's not stressful. It was fun for me. If I posed for magazine, it was like nothing. And we drive around Jamaica fashion show. Camille loved everything about modeling, from the clothes to the action on the runway, and the camera really loved Camille. When I was 17, I won miss old daughter. At the age of 18, I moved over and won miss, and Catherine came first runner up in the Miss Universe, Miss Jamaica. The 18 Camille found another Love Actually. It was a reggae musician named Eustace. His stage name was thriller you. Then, because my uncle in law was a promoter, like every fashion show he shows up, he always sing. He was so warm and nice. He traveled a lot around the world. You know, I grew up in a musical family. Both my parents were musicians, and in 2016 I began touring with the band that Phil Collins, who was one of my musical idols, was once a member of. And while touring can really be grueling work, it does have his exciting moments, and for Camille, it was her opportunity to spend more time with her husband and grow closer together. We get married. I travel Japan with him, a few places with him because I was his accountant. Think about Camille's life from a young age. And then she had this romance that she got swept away in, and she's traveling with the musician and the crowds and the cities and and things were pretty exciting for her. And then by the time she turned 23, that chapter of her life ended. But the excitement was going to keep going, but in a very different way. When I get pregnant, I stop doing like Red Scribe, Calendar, magazine and all of those stuff. I stopped doing all of those things. Just like how she was so determined to become a model, Camille had her heart set on one thing. I was always praying for a girl. It just always loved girls and they they're so easy to deal with. And I always wanted a girl and I always wanted my daughter to look just like me. I rub on my stomach and I said don't let this baby come out and look like her daddy because he's not andsome I want look perfect like me. And you used to laugh at me and said come here, really? And I said yes. And she did came out looking like her mom. On November 26, 1993, Camille gave birth to Nikita, who went by the nickname of Nikki. When she just want. She didn't have any hair on her head and I was crying. Oh, Mom is her head gonna be boy? And my mom said you're crazy. Then everybody just loved her. She didn't even look like a baby. She just looked like a doll. She don't look real. You know, when we conduct these phone interviews, we don't have an opportunity to see the person. But having said that, with Camille, you could just hear it in her voice and picture her smile as she talks about Nikki. She was the girl that Camille had always prayed for. Everybody just wanna come and see Nikki. Just wanna see Nikki, touch Nikki. Old Nikki and I didn't mind because I'm a warm, caring person. All the kids. Can we see Nikki? They're coming from school and said yes. She was so sweet growing up. So sweet. Camille told me this incredibly sweet story that when Nikki was just one years old, she couldn't find her. She wandered out of the home. She was so concerned that something happened to Nikki. Camille began to frantically look in the area for her daughter. When I couldn't find Nikki, Nikki was right in the yard, close to the yard under the tree. She had a little puppy dog that her dad, a stray dog that her dad, said Mickey. I don't want that thing in the house. She was a cat lover and a dog lover, loving and caring, just like her mom. Just like me. Now, over the years, this mother daughter duo traveled quite a bit. They made a lot of trips out of Jamaica and Nikki seemed to have that lust for travel the same as her mom. We used to go to Canada a lot. We love to go to the mall just to shop. She loved to go to Cheesecake Factory and her favorite place was Pollo Tropical. And there's one particular trip we're going to focus on. In August of 2009, Camille was going to visit a friend who was also from Jamaica, faith visor worked as an ER nurse, and lived in Miramar, FL. She was a warm lady, very kind. But Camille and Faith weren't just friends. Faith had a child of her own, a 15 year old son named Davian, and Nikki was also 15 years old. David and his very good with maths and they would talk on the phone and he will give him his helping with this, this maths and you know they talk a lot on the phone as if they known each other. So once again, you can imagine one of the first things I had to ask Camille, was there a romance between Davian and Nikki? You know, there was never anything said completely outright. But again, they're 15 years old. And Scott, you know, you hit the nail on the head because even just the way that Camille talks about it, and remember, they're in two different countries, but yet those phone conversations became more frequent. So either there is a very strong friendship brewing or maybe a bit of something else. Fate, we talk on the phone and she said, Camille, Camille, why don't you come take Mickey, let Nikki meet Davian and stuff like that, you know you can stay with me. But it would be the tragic events that follow that brief conversation, which would rip through two families in the most unthinkable way. Camille recalls the events like it had just happened. In August 2009, Camille and Nikki made the trek to Florida. Camille got temporary work out there and had plans to use the money that she earned to buy Nikki Sweet 16 dress and decorations. The two stayed with faith and Davian. And one night during that trip, Nikki was at their house having dinner and Camille was on her way home. As soon as I pull up at the driveway, I set to Nikki. Did you guys kiss? And she said mom, did you guys kiss? And she laughed and said mom, stop it, make you was wearing our jammies and never forget. Camille remembers that laughter for another reason, too. It was the last time she ever heard joy in her daughter's voice, and it would very soon be the last time she had heard her daughter speak at all. And even though it was more than 10 years ago, Camille recalls these events like it happened yesterday. I saw this man came up to the car. Not looking good. Not smelling good. Camille didn't seem to recognize the man. Nikki and Davian were standing in front of the door. Now for the next portion of the story, we are going to play Camille's interview raw unedited, including Scott's questions, because we want you to hear it exactly as we did. When he came up to us asking for money. My back turned to the street. I had on. My 2 rings, my chain, my bracelet, and I wasn't even thinking in my head that he had a gun. And I said I have no money. I have no money. I can recall saying it three or four times to him. When I said that to him, my back was turned to the street. He was standing on the side. By the time I turned my head to the right, the gun was at the side of my head and the kids were standing right in front of us. I never forget this is something I have to live with for the rest of my life. This is peeing. Painful for me. At that moment, obviously you know that your daughter and faith son is standing right there. What was going through your mind? I mean, not even thinking that this would happen. And then. When he had some money, he said you all get inside. The kids was in front of me, Nikki was in front, Davian Davian was behind Nikki and I was behind Davian. And he had the gun at my head and said you all get inside. But I already put down my purse on the table under way inside. He said let me get some money, let me get some money. You all get on up the stairs, get on up the stairs, same time. See, it was sleeping and she get up and she said what that song he has said. You are getting there and the bedroom is to your left. Nikita and Davian was standing in front of her bedside table on her closet. And faith was standing at the edge of the bed, and I was standing in front. The man that did this to us. And he had the gun at my head and keep asking, save some money, let me get some money, let me get some money. And we I said we have no money and faith, empty or purse. I can recall when she put out everything on the bed while he's there asking for money. My hair is very long and I pull off my jewelry, slide off the ring, and I take off everything and use my feet. Drop it on the floor on the carpet. Slide it under the ground under the foot of the bed. Bates said to him, I got no money, can I take it to the bank? And he said he wants money and I said she's gonna take you to the bank. And he said shut up. Shut up. You talk too much. And that's when. Eat me my head, and he taped my daughter Kate. He tells Kate to tape them up and say take the kids. When he was bending over feet, taping up feet, the gun fell. And with her hands and feet already taped, Camille saw an opportunity, dropped to the floor, grabbed the gun and fled into another bedroom across the hall. When he came up there and he said. Let me get my gun. Let me get my gun. Camille pointed the weapon and opened fire. A single shot. The gun dropped from her hand, and that round had missed. And he grabbed me in my hair. Put it back in the room. Put his pants down. And they said I'm on my period, I'm on my. And that was it. That was it. I'm sorry, It was right around then that Camille lost consciousness. She didn't know why. She didn't know how, she didn't exactly know when. When she came to, she had no idea, at least momentarily, what had happened. Said Mickey. I didn't hear Nikki. I didn't your feet, I didn't hear TV and I didn't hear nobody. And I said maybe they don't steers. I don't know, because I was hot enough and then I like the place get dark. And then I tried to go to the bathroom when I I couldn't see nothing. Wait time wait. Where am I? When I touch my face, I feel a hole in the side of my face. She did realize that their attacker was no longer in the home, and not only had he assaulted Camille, but he had shot her. 911, what is your emergency? Hi, listen, I'm on the phone. I'm sorry, what? Plan on this phone. She she's incoherent. She's incoherent, your friend. Yeah, OK. What what is going on with her? Look up in the sky. She's what she says. In the same. Injured, stunned, and in shock after being shot in the face, Camille was able to muster up the strength to find her phone and dial the last number she had called. Then that friend called 911 for her. OK, what? What is going on with her? In the face. She was shot in the face. Yeah. OK, OK. That call did bring a quick response by Miramar PD officers surrounded the home, knocking on the door to determine what they were dealing with. Inside, Camille was falling in and out of consciousness every time. And blank, I come back and she said the police outside. I could hear Nick talking to me. Camille felt the only thing that pulled her through those moments was still hearing her daughter's voice. You keep telling me, Mommy, the police outside and then I get up and I walk to the door and that was it when the door opened. Camille was taken to the hospital to get treated right away. When I wake up, I see my husband next to me. I see a lot of Charlie and everything all over me. I see the detectives standing in front of me and I keep saying, where's Nicky? Where's Mickey? Camille thought that she'd been hearing Nikki's voice while she was still inside the house, but that wasn't the case. Nikki had already been killed. They are looking at each other and then they step outside. And then. Making that did you gonna? Yeah, she's gone. She died. Nobody knew my pain. Nobody. God is my my side. And it wasn't just Nikki. It was faith and davian that were also now dead. Just think of all that Camille lost that night. The obvious is her daughter, and while she survived, think about what she was living now with her daughter gone, one of her closest friends, and that friend's child gone. And on top of that, she had to deal with her own physical injuries, not to her elbow, not to her shoulder, but to her face. And remember, this was a woman who was taught as she grew up that that face was what she needed to get by. Bullet entered just centimeters from the corner of her left eye, losing the majority of her sight in her left eye and 90% hearing loss in her left ear. Undergo so many surgery. They took bone from my skull, from my face. The bone was gone. There was no bone within the left side. It's just metal and what they took from my collar. Never gonna hear back from the left ear. It's never gonna see like I used to see. There's something else about the where Camille shot it is a constant reminder. Think about yourselves, how many times a day you look in the mirror, brushing your teeth, combing your hair, just walking by. And every time she sees her faces, not just the reminder of what happened to her, but is the loss of her child that she can never escape. Oh God, I don't see myself like I used to see myself. It's painful. I used to cover my face, but you know, I stopped doing that. One of my friends looked at me and said, Camilla are still pretty, don't I? Don't I discard? You know it is what it is. Karen, get back. Nicky. We are more than a decade since these murders, and Camille is still dealing with the physical challenges that they brought. She's already gone through multiple surgeries and medical disappointments, as much of those surgeries are no longer going to be covered by insurance. The insurance is not gonna cover it. Insurance don't cover these things. They look at it like a plasmatic surgery, which is not this, not cosmetic surgery. This is a a gunshot. This is a reconstruction surgery. And there's just something that felt so wrong to me as I was hearing it. I mean, she is shot in the face during a home invasion attack, and while she is left not to chew the way that she could before, every time she looks there is that constant reminder. I cannot fathom how that becomes labeled cosmetic. That's only sort of being re victimized in a sense by the system. These are healing surgeries, not appearance surgeries, and she deserves. Every opportunity to heal. And never gonna true like I used to true. I can't see again like I used to. I can't hear like I used to. If I don't do the surgery, I'm gonna still get biting on the flesh on the inner part. You know, when we think about Camille, there have been so many moments and so many things over the years that she has had to face and deal with that. You can hear it when she talks. It just sounds like almost too much to bear. But just like those moments before the police arrived, that very night when she was encouraged by the sound of her daughter Nikki's voice, that is the exact same thing that has gotten her through all of this. My daughter would work the best for me. I think about it every day and said we can all want to see me suffer and punish myself, so I'm gonna just keep going and push through this. Just hours after the shooting, Camille had fully regained consciousness in the hospital, and it was time for investigators to piece together the details from their only living witness, and they would learn just how gruesome of a crime this really was. Where the state you're about to give is gonna be the truth, all truth about yourself you got here. This is a portion of the police interview made shortly after the incident. We're not going to be playing most of Camille side of the conversation because the quality is not great and she's very difficult to hear. And he asked for money when he first approached you or was that was until you got inside? They were asking me questions and you took the purse out of your handbag. You know, I was on and off. I wasn't myself. And then did you take out the cash or did he take out the cash? OK, I took the cash to give it to him. And the obvious thing for police is, is this attacker someone that someone in that home knew? So is it going to be a stranger encounter, a crime of opportunity, something personal so once they can try to figure out that they try to have some direction? Did he mention any of you guys by name? No. No, no, no, no. You. Did it appear that he was familiar with the house? No. Do you know if Faith had been having problems with anybody in the neighborhood, whether it's a neighbor, whether? David was never responds with anybody. This was someone who simply walked up to them while they were bringing packages in from the store. He wasn't wearing a mask and he didn't appear to be concerned about confronting them in public. And there is something about that, right, that they didn't wear a mask. And to me that says it's obviously or most likely at least not someone they knew who wasn't worried about being recognized. But also probably not someone from right around there. Because again, just think about your own block or wherever you live with someone that you see every day or someone that works in the corner. Sure, you're gonna be more likely to recognize me if you don't know them yet. There is a brazenness, a confidence in that lack of a mass that indicates either not known or that this is not a pre planned or well thought out plan, that this is a sloppiness on the attacker's part. Did he have anything perculiar about his walk? Did he have a limp? Do you remember if he had he had tattoos or scars? These are a basic set of questions to try to develop a fairly accurate description of the offender. It's obviously hours after the attack and the hope of setting up a perimeter have likely passed, so investigators were anxious to get that description out to fellow investigators and patrol officers who were in that community, questioning neighbors and. Also extending the search with the other help of law enforcement within the county. I never would forget what he looked like. He's not an ugly person. Dark gold teeth in his mouth. You know, just hearing that the attacker had gold teeth, it really does narrow down your pool from the get go. Several of our OEM shows have featured investigations using sketches. It starts, obviously, with a blank sheet of paper. The sketch artist will show a witness or as in this case a victim, a Bank of mugshots asking about specific details. Once the race and sex is determined, that's where things begin to quickly narrow down. Do you see someone in these mugshots with similar? Eyes the shape of their nose, their hair color or hairstyle. Then within a short period of time that sketch will develop and could assist in a quick ID. They remember when they asked me if I can identify somebody, come in and join a picture and I said no, that's not him. And then somebody else came in and I described what he looks like and they were drunk and I said that's not him 100%, but it's locally like him. Was described as a black male, 5 foot, 10, dark complexion, early 20s, slim, low cut hair, gold bottom, teeth and he had an American accent compared to sort of a Jamaican accent as an example as Camille has. Once they had the composite sketch, police distributed Flyers around the neighborhood. There was also a $25,000 reward for information leading to an arrest. And of course, this is the exact type of case that anyone seeing it that had any information you would expect them to want to be helpful. And indeed, Tip did come in, but it did not yield anything substantial. The police had another clue. DNA? Did you see him bleeding anywhere at anytime? This is where it really shows how amazing forensic works because it wasn't from blood or bodily fluids at the crime scene. Adorable. It came from an unlikely source, something we've never come across before. The investigation was at a standstill until investigators decided to test an unlikely source for DNA. Now remember, each of the victims was duct taped. After forcing Camille, Nikki and Davyon into the home at gunpoint and constantly demanding money, the suspect handed faith A roll of duct tape, ordering her to tape Camille's hands and feet and then the kids. Where did she get a date from? He handed it to her. And in turn, faith handed the roll back to the suspect, who began to tape her hands and feet. Where did he get the tape from? Don't know. Don't know. And investigators had found a roll of duct tape on a table near the victims. You don't know if he had it on him or. Just seen it in their bedroom. No, we just think about like duct tape for a moment, right? Just think about the potential of how many hands could have touched it. There is the factory workers where it is being produced. There is the people that are tasked with placing in the boxes to get wherever it's going to go. There's the people taking out of the boxes to put it on the shelf of whatever store that's selling it. And then there is the purchaser and who even knows if the purchaser is the same person who then is using this duct tape? To commit these crimes, while the first rounds of testing did not produce a viable sample, months later a second test was conducted, this time focusing on the adhesive side of the tape, hoping DNA cells were stuck to the tape and this test did return results. Picture of three profiles, one was belonging to Camille, the other was to an unknown individual, and the third was to add person who would become their number one suspect. The likelihood of it being that person was one in 460,000. My match to today's standards, which is normally in the billions, but the person that DNA came back to was a man in his 30s similar to the composite sketch, and his name was Kevin Pratt. When police ran his name, they found that he had encountered law enforcement multiple times before. A year before the homicides, he was arrested in Jacksonville for fondling himself in public. And on August 8th, 2009, that's eight days prior to the homicide, Kevin Pratt was stopped by Miramar Police Department while panhandling. The interesting thing about that is that he was stopped just one mile from Faith's home. Then, just days before the murder, on August 15th, Kevin Pratt was stopped by police 3 miles away from the home. This showed he had the opportunity to potentially commit these murders. Investigators would also learn that Kevin Pratt was already in custody on unrelated charges, so building a case against him was the number one priority for the team at Miramar Police Department. Just got a really thought the where he was arrested in the days before the homicide. Really interesting. You know, you have the one mile and that even though it's farther away, the three miles like that meant nothing to me other than it puts him in the area. So you have this DNA, and I know it's in the thousands rather than millions of the billions, but then what are the odds when you start to have that individual certainly in the vicinity of where the crime takes place? And that's before you even get to the composite sketch or anything else. And that's a piece of information you hold back when you interview your suspect and if he's willing to even talk. Because if he claims that he's never been to the city or is nowhere near the home and then you can present that back to him, then you're really pushing him in a corner and really potentially giving yourself the real opportunity to determine whether he's being truthful. Investigator in this case, Detective Steve Toyota, knew that he wasn't going to confront Pratt with just the DNA evidence alone. He wanted to have an identification in place, and the only living witness who could do that was Camille. And that meant taking a trip to Jamaica. And I was in Jamaica when they came down there with the pictures. The plan was to do a photo array or a photo lining for Camille to see if she could pick Kevin Pratt out in a photograph. And when she looked at those photographs, she did not make an identification. I was stressed out in Jamaica. I remember when they came, I wasn't thinking straight. I was just everything was just coming through my head. Why don't I die? What am I living for? So when you hear that, it's just that wind out of your sails, or is it right? Because I've certainly had cases that the witness did not make an identification. And again, maybe because it's not the person, but it could also be because maybe they look different, people lose weight, they gain weight, they have different facial hair hairstyles. And again, there is something very different about a photograph of someone than a live lineup. You know, it happens more often than you may think. We remember they do have this DNA, so it would prompt. Investigators to go past this photo array and attempt to do more work to determine if they had the right person. But of course, there's always going to be the possibility that when they get that no ID that for whatever reason, maybe they're heading down the wrong path. Fast forward a few months later and it's now more than two years after the homicide investigators tried a different technique, which is a live lineup to see if Camille can pick Pratt out, which encapsulates everything about this case. In a live lineup at the Sheriff's Office, 6 individuals walk in. OK, go ahead. You can bring them in. Camille walks in. She's standing securely behind one way glass. This is #1. Then each suspect is asked to turn around #2 and face the window. Number 31 at a time. #4, turn left and then turn right. #6. This live lineup would produce an answer. The six individuals as the person you saw commit the crime. #4. The victim is staying #4. #4 was Kevin Pratt. See, as soon as he came out there, I said it's #4. And now that he's been identified, they sat down with Pratt to ask him what happened back on August 16th of 2009. For investigators going into the interview, the strategy should be less is more, holding back on revealing key pieces of evidence you've collected, hoping your subject will independently confirm details only the killer would likely know. What is the prize you if I witness identified you here? Pratt already has been told. An ID has been confirmed. No, not really. No. I have no idea I want to supply. But any defendant who has been through the system knows for a multiple murder charge, ID's are easily challenged. There's a reason why things happen. You can help me tell me that reason. You can also help the victim with closure as far as what happened. Bears do have DNA in their pocket. They are not offering up that. Instead, they're taking the route of finding of Pratt has any type of guilty conscience. Yeah, what you took from her, but you can give her closure. So sometimes it's not just what investigator strategy is you look at to see, well, what is the strategy of the person on the other side of those questions, in this case, Pratt? Nothing. I'm not telling that done anything, and so if there was a strategy at all, it was really just to keep answering with short answers very matter of factly. We call it. Nope. Nope. Not me. No, not really. Don't know what you're saying. I've never heard of anything like that. Wasn't there? I don't know. And just repeat, repeat, repeat and never waver. And that's exactly what he did. Tell us what happened. I'll tell you what happened to you. No, you won't, Kevin. No, you are. You are there. OK, time to tell us the truth, OK? Pratt wasted no time in going back to the forensic evidence when he brought up this very important question. So what's the latest on the DNA? DNA is it's yours. You were there, you were in this house. I can tell you that you were in this House and your DNA isn't. It wasn't found in a key part of the house and a key piece of evidence that not only makes you to the house, but links you to what happened. It's not whether. It happened, or whether you were there. It's why you're really. The biggest thing that stood out to me about the interview was Pratt's demeanor itself. You know, sometimes people seem very nervous when they're being questioned. You know, they tap their finger or they blink or, and there really was none of that. Let me just say, I've interviewed defendants in a whole host of different cases where their demeanor during the initial part of the interview is confident or even arrogant until they begin to realize that you have much more evidence than they believe. Going in and not only does their physical demeanor change, but usually their voice tone becomes softer and it may still be denials, but there is a visible change and they just begin to shut down. Investigators decided to take one more shot on plane to prod sympathy. I want to introduce you something. This time they took what definitely would be termed a bold, indeed a risky move. And that's when Camille entered the room. Investigators had already sat down multiple times with Kevin Pratt, giving him an opportunity to answer the charges he was facing. And while those interviews didn't produce much except for denials, this next interview would be different. In fact something some would consider quite unorthodox. Identify my ask them if I could go talk to him in person. I said I wanna go in the room and ask him why is he so artless? And they said they gotta make call to make sure I can go in and then when they get off the phone they said yes. You know, I think Scott used a great descriptive word, and that is unorthodox because there are certainly potential challenges, problems, pitfalls in this. But let's focus on what Camille said when she was in the room. And then. When I went in there and I started talking, he don't say a word, not a single word. She is in the same room with the person she had just identified as having killed taken her child from her forever. And never have. And I said you're all like you have no, no remorse. And while it was expressing her pain, it was also that showing of strength. And she let him know in no uncertain terms. I know who you are. You are the person who took my child. You took my friend. Her son forever. But you know what? You left me for dead 2 but I am here. See, I am here. I'm not dead. I'm alive to tell what you did to us. I remember. You're never, ever gonna. Were hindia for almost 30 minutes and you don't even say I said tell me you're sorry. You didn't even say Howard. Nothing. We just sitting in my feel like I could kill him. You have no remorse. No art didn't say nothing. Nothing. Until I feel like I want to reach over for the pen and have him. They took me out of the room. Kevin Pratt would not show any emotion for what he was being accused of. It did not advance the investigation at all, and within hours of that interview, Kevin Pratt was released. Now, Anna Sigga, obviously here there must be some real concerns on the state attorneys side about the evidence that they had. And still the fact was they needed to do more work, you know, and again, while we certainly have materials here that we're looking at, we don't have the entire file. But yeah, I think it's a very fair assessment to say that they were not sure that they had enough to walk themselves into court because they already had clear problems with the identifications. Initially, they had nothing but denials in his statements. They had a DNA hit that, while conclusive, was less than the numbers that we are used to and would be open to attack. So at that moment they let him walk out. Whether it was to look for more evidence or reassess, it was taking the thoughtful move to really look carefully before they placed his name on an arrest warrant. But not all hope is lost. Two weeks later, Miramar police hired an outside crime lab. To perform a new round of DNA testing on the duct tape. And this lab did a second test where they focused on just the Y chromosome, and that's the chromosome belonging to men. And the results of this test were markedly different. They showed that the chance that the DNA belonged to an unrelated person was one in 12 billion. That's 26,000 times stronger, more certain than the tests that have been conducted before, and that. Equal the not to charge Kevin Pratt with murder. Yes, and they said he's gonna get that penalty. It seemed like, finally, Kevin Pratt, after evading the hand of justice for more than two years, was finally going to be held accountable. But not so fast. You know, one thing we see with forensic science time and time again is that it's always evolving, and the same can be said for DNA. Even recently we covered a case on true conviction where there was a suspect whose DNA was linked to a homicide, but then on appeals he was exonerated because that DNA tested was deemed to be not conclusive enough. Similarly, here in 2013, there were new guidelines put in place for DNA mixtures with multiple profiles. Remember, there had been three when they tested that tape. And the crime lab, based on those new guidelines, determined that the results were inconclusive. Prosecutors what would be the best strategy now that this DNA evidence is being challenged? How would that impact them walking into trial? I mean, I think it's that you take a deep breath and really look at what you have because again, they still have the test, they still have the conclusion, but they now have to deal with these new guidelines. So you could still likely put this in front of a jury, but you now have to also give them what these guidelines now are. So it certainly lessens the impact of that new number being in the billions. So you still have the evidence, but it's much less powerful based on what's more current. Like I have always said, there's never a straight line to justice, and there's always steps that need to be taken to complete, sort of a valid package for prosecutors to move ahead in the case. And there are other things that are going on behind the scenes to determine how valid a prosecution's case can be in front of a jury. And I think those are the conversations that happened between prosecutors and between detectives and most importantly, family members and surviving victims. I am 100% sure it's what it was in. This is something I have to sleep with every night, open my eyes and see him. And So what happened here is that both sides, the prosecution and the defense, agreed to a plea deal. And here's why. The judge had already indicated to both sides that he was likely going to suppress, which means not allowed those lineup results to make it into evidence. And the same thing for Kevin Pratt's statement. So now you didn't just have this difference in the DNA results, you had no identifications potentially you had whatever he did say whatever use you could make of his statements not being introduced to the jury. So there are without us again seeing the entire file going to be major problems for the prosecution. I don't even want to talk about that. I know because I don't get the justice that I should get. On February 21st, 2017, Kevin Pratt pled guilty to the murders. In exchange, he would get a 10 year prison sentence, more than half of which he had already served since his arrest. And just do the math, he received his sentence in 2017. The sentence was for 10 years. He had already served half, as I just mentioned, so we had five more years left. 2017 + 5 puts us at 2022. At the time of this recording, Kevin Pratt is a free man. And they really need just in that I need closure, which I don't get. When I got to that part of the research of hearing that talked about during the interview. It literally just stopped me for a bit because no matter what the evidence is, and while I may understand it, and the realities of what could be proven in court, how is 10 years enough for a life in this case 3? On top of which the forever wounds both external and inside to Camille. And so again, it is not second guessing what happened because we don't have all the facts before us, but there is just something so wrong to me personally about that. I'm with you 3 lives and an attempt to take another and leave the surviving victim questioning whether life is even worth living. Many of you are likely questioning where is the justice in that, and I stand right beside you in questioning why. This man took everything from me when he took my child life, my friend and her son. Leave me. Undergo 16 surgeries. Kevin Pratt, you are the one who take my child life, my friend and our son, and leave me to die. And I will never forgive you. And I leave justice in, and I am the witness. I was the one who see him. And see what he did to us. To put yourself in my shoes. And if he you were in my shoes and see the person who did this to you. You would know the pain I'm feeling. And I 100% sure that it's you, Kevin Pratt, that did this to me, that put me through pain. And your day will come. You know, I often look for those Silver Linings or that breath of hope that one of these survivors can give to others. And while I could talk about certain things with Camille. All I kept hearing during this interview was despair. You know, working in this line of work. We certainly have a larger stomach for hearing about the darkness that goes on in this world, but sometimes it even makes us makes me question. Is it all just too much? And for Camille, she has thought it too. But one of the things that the thing that keeps her going is the voice of her daughter. Her life is lost. But that voice, her memory, has never left Camille's head. And I think it's safe to say that she is never going to stop hearing Nikki's voice, and I think we are all incredibly thankful that she still has that one gift. Camille remains so connected to her daughter and expresses that by writing her a note in her personal journal each and every day. I tell her what I do. I tell her what I eat, where I go, everything. Tell her much I miss her. You know what, *****? She's in a better place. We want to leave you with one of the last notes Camille wrote to Nikki, which encapsulates everything about this case. Hi Nikki, this is Mommy. I miss you all so much. I did a good job by saving. And I did the closing on the House, and I'm making the room like yours. You may not be with me, baby, but you're always around me. I mean not feeling in flesh. But I think about your appetite when we dance close to close Kenny Rogers Song, Michael Bolton. And when you dance Michael Jackson for me, you make me laugh. And I know one day me and you're gonna go dancing. And enjoy the world together. TuneIn next week for another new episode of Anatomy of Murder. I love you, my Angel. Love you, Nikki. Wish you all so much. Anatomy of Murder is an audio truck original. You will always be a part in my heart. Produced and created by Weinberger Media and Farsetti Media. I love you, my Angel. Again kisses. Ashley Flowers and Summit David are executive producers. So what do you think, Chuck, do you approve?