All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg

Industry veterans, degenerate gamblers & besties Chamath Palihapitiya, Jason Calacanis, David Sacks & David Friedberg cover all things economic, tech, political, social & poker.

E39: West coast super drought & climate crisis, Nuclear virtue signaling, chaos in SF & more

E39: West coast super drought & climate crisis, Nuclear virtue signaling, chaos in SF & more

Fri, 09 Jul 2021 04:47

Show Notes:

0:00 Super drought & climate crisis on the west coast

25:53 Nuclear energy, virtue signaling, cognitive laziness, positive signals of optimism

36:50 Friedberg's "anti-science" theory

44:48 San Francisco chaos, "crime is down" controversy, viral crime videos

59:42 Are Israel's recent COVID vaccine findings problematic?

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Referenced in the show:

Nuclear energy timeline

The Grid: The Fraying Wires Between Americans and Our Energy Future

MarketWatch - Target shortens hours in San Francisco due to ‘alarming rise’ in shoplifting

Israel Ministry of Health - Decline in Vaccine Effectiveness Against Infection and Symptomatic Illness


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What did your doctor give you to make you lose all this weight? What is it? What is your celebrity doctor giving you? Tell the truth. Did you get that new people, people on Twitter are like, you're your Twitter account sounding a lot more like Jacob. And I'm like, I think, I think we're on the same diet. I think that's what's going on here. In 3/2. Let your winners ride. Hey, man, David. We open sources to the fans and they've just gone crazy. Queen. Hey everybody. Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of the All in Pod with us today, of course, the Queen of Kiwi and from his castle in Italy, the cackling dictator Chamath Polly Hypatia, nice gardenias and. Back from his. Big, big battle. His brawl unblocked and undefeated. The Rain Man himself, David Sacks, and judging by the comments, I'd say dominant. Oh, you read the comments? Just another sign of your obsession with how you're perceived. Like you don't even. I never read the comments. Don't rule #1. Don't read the comments. We're not doing it again. It shows because you're not listening to the comments, so it makes sense. OK, go ahead. And you got your whole troll army. How many people have you hired on your social media team? Control me from anonymous accounts on Twitter now to prove your points. Now you're paranoid, too. I'm not gonna. Don't be paranoid. Don't be paranoid. Anyway. Look, not believe patched things up. Don't break the piece we have datant. All right. So Freeberg is busy writing tweetstorms now about the drought in California, which seems to be. Just going to be a really bad year, basically. So Freeberg walk us through it. How bad is California's drought going to be this year? So the drought is already very bad. I put out a lot of tweets at 2:00 in the morning last night. I think I drank way too much caffeine yesterday. I'm in the mountains and, like the only way I can avoid having headaches is like drinking caffeine all day. And it was a mistake. It kept me up all night. You sure it's not there? Maybe you're so excited about this. That you could just can't sleep when you're not feeling needles, Nick. You could beat this out, Nick, you gotta shut up. No, no, keep that. Keep that. So. You know, the, the, the big tweet storm I put out at 2:00 in the morning last night kind of highlighted that there was a paper published in 2018-2019 that showed how, you know, North America, particularly the western half of North America is in this, you know, mega drought that we haven't seen in, you know, 500 plus years. And since that paper was published, you know, in 2019 conditions have only worsened. We talked about this a few pods ago, but like the snowpack level in California reached 0%. Throughout the entire state by June 1st. That has never happened before. Temperatures in British Columbia, as you guys know, reached over 120 degrees for several days in a row last week, which has never been seen in history in British Columbia. You know, there was a paper published today that estimates that over a billion animals and life forms were wiped out in the coastal region of British Columbia because of this heat wave. And the temperatures in in California are obviously excessive, as well, not as bad as they were last year, but what matters most is that the moisture conditions. And our forest land is lower than we've ever seen at this time of year in history. And so this all sets us up. And and and and the other kind of big consequence, the high temperatures is causing an increased demand for air conditioners. That's the big variable in power demand on all grids. And the low snowpack means that we're not getting hydroelectric power. Hydroelectric power is down by 70% in the state of California over where we were in 2019 because there's no snow that's melting, causing the rivers to flow and about 11 to 15% of our state's electricity. Comes from hydroelectric power. So we're going to have more power demand. We have less power available. We have extremely dry forests. And so this is setting us up for a number of possible disasters this year. And so rather than just trying to sound the alarm bells, what I'm pointing out is that there may be some things that we should be thinking about doing to try and get ahead of some of the consequences of these, these big risks, like, you know, having enough masks for people to breathe outside so we don't have to shut down schools and shut down outdoor work and all the things that might happen having community centers that have. Power available. The state is scrambling to find excess power on the grid right now, but you know it. It just highlights that there's a moment here that is almost like where we were going into COVID. It may not happen, but the probability is high enough that something bad may happen that we should probably start to get prepared for it. You know, we should probably be talking about the things we're doing to get prepared for it, and we're talking about we should be talking about things we're going to make sure the communities are safe and people are safe and businesses can keep operating. Because if the state of California has 150 AQI, which is the air quality index, workers can't work outside and all the outdoor work which employs 3,000,000 Californians have to shut down. And, you know, you kind of start to add these things up. It's like, what are we going to do as this happens? Not if this happens. And we should kind of be planning for it. And I don't see much happening in terms of planning and and and preparation and talking about the the opportunity history rhymes. Because if you remember, and this is all going into a recall election in the fall, this was a different but kind of equivalent setup where you guys remember we were having all these blackouts and brownouts when Gray Davis was recalled and then Schwarzenegger just swooped up out of nowhere. And, you know, people thought, oh, that there's no chance and people were just frustrated. Because the quality of life took a measurable step backwards, uh, in the intervening six or nine months before the recall election. And so it'll be really interesting to see how Gavin Newsom manages all of this. Because if he can't get. The States act together and. You have all of these issues at hand and a credible candidate emerges. You could have some really interesting political fireworks in September. A big part of this, correct me if I'm wrong, freedberg, is that we live in essentially like a lot of desert area here in California and we just haven't invested in the desalinization plants. We have one that's come on since 2005, and I think there's another one in SoCal that was mothballed and they, during the last drought, wanted to open it up again, but. We now have one in Carlsbad, the Claude Bud Lewis Carlsbad desalinization plant that is now. I think that cost us a billion bucks, but. Israel, correct me if I'm wrong, is now they charge three times as much for water than we do. So people take water seriously and they actually monitor their water usage and they have desalinization, and they have more water than they need per capita. Well, diesel doesn't really solve a number of these problems that I'm highlighting. You know, the the probability of the the forest land on the West Coast, not just in California but all up and down the West Coast, catching on fire, is very high. No number of desal plants is going to put out those fires. When that happens, the air quality is going to get really bad. You know, like we saw last year, I don't know if you guys remember, I escaped to Lake MI last summer when the the smoked the threads, yeah, yeah. And it it was it was insane. You know, it doesn't. Desal plants don't solve the air quality problem where people can't work outside, your kids can't go to school, etcetera, etcetera. Desal plants don't solve the problem of hydroelectric plants, which require snowpack to melt to get rivers to run to turn those turbines to generate electricity for the state. Nuclear would solve that, though. Nuclear would solve that certainly and so. You know, the, the point is we're kind of reaching this apex of are we gonna do climate change adaptation, are we going to have, you know, kind of long term systemic solutions that we're going to start to put in place for these risks that we face. And more importantly, from an acute perspective in the near term, what are the actions we should be taking to protect communities and get ahead of this problem. So it's not a scramble after the crisis, which is what we typically do with these sorts of crises. We're not investing in infrastructure, if we put in some nuclear power plants, if we did more desal and we did. Or forest management, or put more fire breaks into, you know, all this. I'm talking about the simple solutions like having these three things would be massive, wouldn't they? Well, those are long term solutions I'm talking about. Like for this summer, we should summer, we need, we need communities. No, but we need to prepare for what is going to happen this summer. So when communities get run out, what are we going to do? You know, do we have Community Center set up where people can get water and power? Do we have masks available so that outdoor workers can keep working in the state? You know, all of these things. We could be doing to get in front of the inevitable consequences of these risks, I think are things that we should be actively pressure. In California, you should order your air purifiers now. We ordered six more of these Conway ones that we used last year that were amazing. But we, we have the N 95 masks. We ordered them already and we're going to put it in a power generator, which I know not everybody is able to do, but you can buy a portable one for as little as three or 400 bucks, I think now. So a portable generator, in case you lose power, stock up on everything else. We need those solutions. Like, I think there's going to be a big kind of power generator push, right, like distributed power has always been something that's the whole point of solar. You get the solar on your roof, you get your own power. But how are you going to keep your AC running when it's 120 degrees outside if you have no power? You know that that's kind of a very scary. Circumstance of heat waves. And it's it's something that we should have a real plan around. And if I were the governor or if I were kind of California leadership or leadership up and down the West Coast, you know, the Western Governors, I probably be running a Daily Press conference starting now saying, let's just get in front of this problem and talk about what are the risks we're seeing, what are the problems seeing what we're doing about it. Just so people feel reassured because, you know, scrambling after a crisis doesn't make anyone feel better. You know, showing that we're prepared and we're taking action to get in front of this crisis, which is. Not 100% certain, but it's a greater than 0% probability is something that could helpfully kind of reassure and start to put the pieces in place for the near term. By the way, just just for those that don't really appreciate how interconnected everything is. The basics, the science basics on drought, as I learned about them, were really, really incredible. So you think, OK, well, how how was all this stuff connected? It turns out that, you know, as we have warmer and warmer temperatures. Yeah, I didn't know this freeberg you probably do this, but it accelerates soil evaporation. And then there's this really terrible feedback loop that starts, which is you have drier soil, which means you have less vegetation. And then as a result, you have less, what's called evapotranspiration, which means there's less regional precipitation. And then this whole thing just starts to spin and spin and spin. You have warmer temperatures that results in less snowpack, the snow plaque, the snowpack melts earlier. And we have a situation now in the United States which is just incredible. I saw a graph, which is one of soil moisture, and it shows. Basically, the western half of the United States is in the first percentile of soil moisture, looking back over many, many decades. So, well, and then all of that vegetation dries up and then reposition fodder for more fires. No, Jason, we're even worse than this. We're in a position where, you know, we are threatening our own food supply. And just just to just to put a finer point on this, it's not just the western half of the United States that's now suffering from this. It's Brazil, it's the Mediterranean and southern Europe and its large parts of Africa. You add up all those number of people, there are many countries there that are actually self-sufficient which will then no longer be, we'll have to import food that food quality is you know questionable at best in some cases. So we're in a really tough position here and so it's, it's in this all solvable with technology. And if we just tax people a little more for the water usage, if we really invested in the desal plants, if we really invested in nuclear, we could actually flip this whole thing the same way. It's spiraling in the wrong direction. It could spiral in the right direction. Two things on the water side. I've, I've been looking at water investing for a while. There's a there's a real problem, which is, you know, when I when I looked at this, my team found some incredibly interesting opportunities, largely it it it evolves around owning water rights, right, and then basically selling them back to the state and when states get in difficult situations. The problem is I think it's politically intolerable for, let's just say, somebody like me to own those kinds of water rights. And Baron yeah. I think, I think it's, I think it's no bueno. The, the idea then that I had was like, well, maybe what we should be doing is buying these things and sticking them in a foundation so that we can guarantee water for people in certain states. Maybe that flies. I'm not so sure that's the, that's the government's job and but then they're not doing their job, but they're incompetent. They are unfortunately not, not as skilled as you'd want them to be on the stacks. How would you spin this out of this death spiral and into abundance? Is there a way? Well, I mean, the, the, the first thing to realize here is that this is not a Black Swan event. I mean, this is an entirely foreseeable drought. Conditions have existed in California for a long time, in fact, 200 years. Yeah. Well, and even maybe going back millions of years, I mean, geologists have found evidence that, you know. Millions of years ago, you would have millions of acres of California burning every year. And so drought conditions have existed for a long time. Has climate change amplified that and made it worse? Yes, but this is entirely foreseeable. We know we're dealing with these conditions, and in fact, back on his first day in office in 2019. Newsom held his very first press conference about this issue on emergency preparedness for fires. But the problem is there has been no follow through and so news, you know, to go back to Thomas Point about the political ramifications here, you could have a Gray Davis like situation with the recall where all of a sudden Newsom goes from being the favorite to potentially losing because of fire season. But by the way, I mean the whole reason why the the recall elections happening in September now instead of October, November is because Newsom is precisely worried about the Gray Davis scenario. And there are this recall supposed to happen in the October, November time frame. They've moved it up to September because Newsom thinks there's a higher chance of fading the worst of fire season by doing the election sooner. The problem for him is that fire season now starts in August and so we could be in the middle of fire season when this recall election happens and this in Kaboom ring on him. But back to the point. About you know, Newsom held this press conference back in in January of 2019. And the problem is there hasn't been any real fall through on forest management. So, you know, Newsom was recently caught in a lie saying that, you know, they had basically treated 90,000 acres. This is what this article, I'll put it in the chat, said, in reality that only really treated about 11,000 acres, even 90,000 would be inadequate. Right. They're not doing enough. And the way, you know, I talked to a very prominent person who knows California politics well and knows all the players. And what he said is, look, the fundamental problem is that. Having is not operational, right. He's fantastic at fundraising. He says all the right things at press conferences, but but not everything is about running for reelection. And the problem is he has not managed to this outcome. And and so now we're in this situation where, to freeburg's point, we're going to be scrambling after the fact. Now what is Newsome's excuse going to be? It's going to be, you know, climate change is going to be global warming. It's kind of the all-purpose dog ate my homework excuse for anything that goes wrong is he can just blame it on climate change. But the reality is we knew about climate change. Climate change somewhere you have to live with. Even if we stop it in its tracks from this point forward, we're not going to be able to reverse the effects this already had. And so we need leaders who will step up and and get much more aggressive about preventing this problem. I think my, and by the way my tweet, I didn't mention climate change at all. I got, you know, I don't think that that's even the point. The point is we are facing acute conditions on the in the western half of the United States right now that lead to a number of significant and severe consequences. Those acute conditions, you know, you could blame them on climate change. They say they're part of climate change. It doesn't change the reality. They are here today and we have to deal with them. And I think, yeah, we have a, we have a couple of things that are, that are going to happen here in short order that I think can make this thing. Accelerated a little. So there's a an organization, a department in the United States government that's not very well known, called the US Bureau of Reclamation, USSR. And they are the ones that will make formal assessments of water levels. And there's a really important assessment that's going to happen in Lake Mead at the end of this year. And the reason why it's critical is that if the US Bureau of Reclamation Measures Lake Mead under. A certain threshold they can declare a Tier 1 shortage, and what that means, just practically speaking, cutting through all the, you know, jargon, is that. Initially, the state of Arizona will be denied around 600,000 acre feet of water next year. What does that mean? That's about 15% of the demand for that state. And so you're gonna start, you know, to deal with these sort of like rolling. I don't know what we're even going to call these water out. Scenarios where it's not just about watering your lawn, that's not going to be possible. It's going to be a whole bunch of other things. Now there is a solution, and this is where California can come to the rescue for most of the western United States if they really want to, or at least for the rest of California, which is there is an enormous untapped groundwater aquifer in Southern California, which is the size of Lake Mead. It's an incredibly unique thing. It's actually owned by a public company. And the whole goal was, OK, well, let's just build a pipeline right from the aquifer to deliver drinking water to folks that you know are lacking water. And this has been a multi year, you know, bordering on multi decade slog because of California politicians, because water has become highly politicized. No one wants to pay the full cost for a commodity that they frankly view as a right. But then they don't want to step in to do the work. To actually make it reasonable and viable. So this whole thing is just again, as David, as you said, the dog ate my homework and now we're really playing with some very complicated things that are really out of the control and intellectual capacity of the of, frankly state governments, which is the interconnectedness of weather, temperature, water or soil our food supply. It's a I think what's so frustrating with this is this is so easily solvable and we are not doing the blocking and tackling the free throws. The basic things if you look at just monitoring or water usage. I invested in two companies. One of them didn't work out, but both of them were to monitor water usage and what we learned was at a campus like Stanford, they have like 4 water meters, like they're not going down to the building level. In some cases they'll be like. Four buildings on one water meter and you can very easily at each sink. At each, you know, shower head you can put a device that cost 25 bucks installed. It just wraps around the the the the water, the the the pipe and it could tell you how it's flowing and we lose 2030% of our water to leaks. Nobody is monitoring their usage because there is no cost to it, to chamotte point and then you look at these crazy insane. Almond and other agriculture in the the middle of California, they are using flood irrigation, which I'm sure freedberg can give us an education at versus what you know the trip irrigation that they use and other reclaiming methods in Israel and other places. So we look at water as like to tremont's point some crazy God-given right, that we can just splash it everywhere. We can take 20 minute showers and then we allow how crazy is this? We allow the bottling of water in California. Allow these companies to bottle water and then sell it and we don't even monitor our usage. We have well, we are so entitled. It is gross. Newsome's biggest donors who who's that family that grows all the almonds or whatever, whoever they are. The the rednecks, the rednecks, single biggest them and the teachers unions singles, Linda Resnick and those palm people with the palm stuff. I know it's it's total political corruption, right. I mean, they get Chinatown. It's literally the movie Chinatown. Yeah. Well, I think so to this point about why aren't. Politicians solving the problems? I mean, to make a meta point, there's a great tweet from Thomas Sowell, or the person who manages the Thomas sole account. Where he said no one will really understand politics until they understand that politicians are not trying to solve our problems, they're trying to solve their own problems. Real election, which are getting elected and reelected. That's #1 #2 in office. That is their only goal. Three is far behind. And and that that's basically the situation we have is I think Newsom actually is a little bit like Trump, not in his personal style, but in that he thinks he can talk his way out of problems and he's not going to focus on solving a problem when he can just spin his way out of it. Anyway, I just think you guys should know the, you know, because a lot of people talk about residential water use. That is also kind of an acute and local problem where depending on your water supply, how much water you have available to your community. But in terms of aggregate water use, the vast majority of water in California is used in agriculture. It's about 10X what is used for residential applications. So California agriculture, by the way, it's not a bad thing. It's a. Huge part of our economy that water has generally been fully available in aquifers. People bought that land with rights. They paid a premium for those rights to those aquifers. This is a very complicated problem in California and that, you know, supports a large part of the California economy. So, you know, you can't just kind of blow them away. But 90% of water use in California is associated with a G and it's not just a generally we need to save water problem. It's very specific to a region and a community and their particular water source on whether and how much you need to save versus do you have abundant supplies and so on. And so it's it's a little bit more complicated, but yeah, but we should be focused on abundance freeburg. If if you look at the new nuclear power plants that you know Bill Gates has invested in and then you look at desalinization, which is an energy issue, we can desalinate size for roughly two or three times the cost that we're getting more water for now. So just put a nuclear power plant next to a desalinization plant and you're done. Great. That's a 20 year project and you gotta buy. Why is it a 20 year project? China does it in two. You need to be more bold. In this country, it is completely ridiculous that we accept that everything has to take 20 years. We need this now. Where's the leadership that says, **** it, let's do it immediately. Let's set a goal of two years to build 10 of these and then spend the ******* money. I'm not sure it solves our acute problems. It solves long term problems associated with climate change and energy. We can't do both. Water, we can't do both. Let's do both. Sure, we should do everything, but right now the, you know, the the conditions indicate that there are some specific things that we can and should be doing. Kind of support the state in terms of what's gonna happen in the next year or two. And yes, we should also be funding long term projects that create water security and energy security for everyone in the United States. But sacks to your point. And by the way, if you guys ever want to read an interesting book about how the grid operates, there's a book called the Grid and it talks about how the electrical power grid system was built in the United States and how inefficient it is and all the problems there. There are a lot of structural problems that need to be solved, not just you know, dropping and cheap power. Sax, who is the good operational candidate that you've seen that's running for Governor of California in this recall? Is there someone that stands out in your mind? Because I, I, I don't seem to hear anyone talking about, hey, there's a good alternative to Gavin Newsom at this point. Yeah. I mean, we don't a clear alternative has not emerged yet. You know, I guess the and and part of the problem is that because there was no Republican primary, you haven't sort of consolidated the opposition to a leading candidate. There are a couple of, I guess, interesting candidates on the Republican side. I need to spend more time getting to, you know, know them. I mean, I have never met them. Or talk to them. But the the two who are, I think, mentioned quite a bit are this guy Falconer, who's the mayor of San Diego, who is sort of a socially liberal Republican. And then there's a state assemblyman named Kevin Kylie, who who I think says a lot of interesting things, and he just announced he's running. There's another guy as well, John Cox, but he got trounced by Newsom in the last election. I think it's time to let somebody else. Take a shot against him. And then, of course, you've got Caitlyn Jenner. But I think people are still trying to figure out if her campaign is real or how real it is. So yeah, look, we have the the opposition has not consolidated against Newsom the way it did with Schwarzenegger, you know, back in 2001. And voting. I'm voting Republican just to create a counterbalance. I don't care who it is, and I'm not a Republican, I'm an independent, but I'm voting across the board. I'm just going to go to Republican for every position in California, and I'm going to just run my finger. On the line and every single one. Jacob, how does it feel to be a radical Trump supporter? I listen, I have not for Trump, but chamath talk to us about nuclear and what we can do to get to reverse what these hippie dippie, well-intentioned, no nukes concert set us back 50 years. And let's be honest, a lot of the climate change problems we have today we would not have if we had invested in nuclear. Yeah, I I said, well, I sent her on an image. Nick, maybe you can. Stick it in the show notes or something so that people can see. But if you if you look at, if you graph the construction of nuclear reactors from like the 1960s, nineteen 60s to today, essentially what and you color code them by country. What essentially you see is a transition from the able, from the frankly from countries that basically were just right at the at leading the pack and it was really the United States. Building, building, building and then two things really happened. There was three Mile Island and then there was Chernobyl. And there was an incredible overreaction to not really understanding either the cause and or the remediation to two events. Now could you imagine if there were two airlines that crashed and we stopped flying? How basically we would have, you know, ******** the progress of the world. And now you impose it on something like nuclear energy, which is consistently proven to provide an enormously abundant, cheap and clean form of sustainable energy. And it actually solves a bunch of the problems we talked about before. So, for example, if you look at the power consumption for desalinization, it's off the charts, quite honestly, OK. That's why people say that it can't be done credibly, if you look at even just like the amount of energy that's required to clean water and to, you know, sanitize water and make it drinkable. The the the standards that are defined by the government are incredibly stringent, but the the implication of it operationally is an enormous amount of power that goes into it. But Jason, you are right, which is that if we have small forms of sustainable, abundant energy that can be basically hyper localized and located where we can do these jobs, the jobs to be done, it's transformational. Now why doesn't it happen? It doesn't happen because the same folks who really want to sound the alarm bells on climate change, which is the progressive left, are not really willing. They are intellectually lazy when it comes to nuclear. They don't do the work. They make a bright, bland, sort of broad based prognostication about how we need to do something about climate. Then they will point to solar and wind without really understanding the contamination of the earth that we do in order to mine the rare earths and the actual metal and mineral inputs that are required for solar. It's nuts, but it sounds better, right? It sounds better. It sounds better. There in the center of the Sun. And it's like if I could show you what, what tailings are. And like The Dirty after effects of mining copper and nickel out of the ground, which is what we need for batteries. And how countries like Indonesia are literally dumping it into the ocean, dumping it faster that they can get their hands on it so that they can sell copper and nickel and cobalt to us so that we can make batteries. You would actually say to yourself, if you knew all these facts, you'd actually say to yourself, you know what? Nuclear isn't so bad and maybe I overreacted to two of you want to understand this? You just have to look at the laziest group of individuals and society. The French, they want to take the laziest route and do the least amount of work and have the most amount of leisure. Sorry to our French listeners, 70% of the energy in France is from nuclear. They figured this out. They said, how do we take more time off and not work and have unlimited electric, 70% nuclear? They're so smart. Well, the, the, the, the French are actually smart because after sashima, because after Fukushima, what happened is if you had, you know, sort of like woke politicians, Germany, a bunch of Germany, they completely unwound their entire nuclear agenda, which was down which which was insanity. Insanity. And so now here they are. They're writing laws faster than they can make them up. They're basically pivoting entire industries to try to now adopt batteries and storage without any real. Understanding about the downstream implications to the earth that they are going to create, just the net consequences. If they had just stayed the course on nuclear, they would be in a much better place. And and to France's credit, they were like, what the **** are you people overreacting about? Again, just think about this guys. If there was tourism is delight, we stopped flying after 2 airline crashes. Where would the world be? Where would the world be? I mean, be pragmatists here. What do we want to deal with? High energy prices and brownouts and all kinds of problems and rolling blackouts, or do we want to put this issue behind us? If we just go on a Manhattan Project, literally, to make new nuclear, we would be. This issue would be behind us, and we could focus on something else, like education. It's so dumb. The very scary thing about nuclear is despite all of the progress. It will get bogged down in litigation and bureaucracy. These are the last two things that should be in front of science and physics. Especially when it comes to energy independence. I just think it's creepy anyway out. Any way we can get people to what's the best way to convince the American public to embrace nuclear? And force our politicians to do it. Open your mind and think for yourself, right? Please. Well, Marc Andreessen is a good term. He said we're living in a vital accuracy, as in the word Vito. I think he is. An interesting interview with Antonio Garcia Martinez on his blog. Anyway. Yeah, they were talking about the inability of the US to build anything anymore, especially when you compare us to some, you know, a place like China. And whether you want to call it Nimbyism or vital accuracy, there are just too many. People and groups who have the right to say no to anything and block anything important from happening. But we got us. We got to stop letting our politicians off the hook by making excuses. You know, just because there's climate change doesn't mean that the politicians can't do anything about it. I mean, welcome to the downstream consequences of a successful democracy, right? Like a democracy over time doesn't reduce the number of laws it has every year. Politicians need to do their job, and they create new laws as new laws accumulate, like the things get clogged up, right? Like when? When have you seen a law that gets passed by a local government, a state government or federal government that makes it easier to do something? I get that. But where? Where does it say in the Constitution of the United States that being part of a democracy also means shutting your brain off and becoming a dumb cynic? Yeah, that's that's not part of what being part of a democracy is. I, by the way, I want to, I want to talk about that for one second. There was this thing that I sent you guys in the chat and Nick hopefully you post post that in the show notes as well. But there was a study that was done about cynicism. And it went back, and it did like a qualitative assessment of more than 200,000 people and their attitudes and their measured IQ, their measured literacy, they're measured numeracy and their measured earnings. And here's what they found. Cynicism is associated with lower IQ, lower literacy, lower numeracy and lower earnings. The idea of cynical individuals being more competent appears to be a widespread yet. Largely illusory lie. So I think we have to teach. Really? I think this makes sense. I mean, I I was shocked by that study because I actually generally think cynical people must be smarter because they're thinking more rationally and maybe I'm being emotional. It turns out they're ******* stupid. Well, here's the thing. They're cynicism. And then there's people who are cantankerous and not content. And I think people sometimes conflate those two things. If you look at the people's constant, pervasive cynicism is not a feature of democracy. It means that you just stop thinking for yourself. As a protective mechanism, right. But but the people we know who have changed the world and who they seem to be, they're not cynical. They're not cynical. They're actually delusional and optimistic or as they wouldn't have started a company to make electric cars, you know, or, you know, whatever piece of software or or synthetic biology, you have to be a radical optimist. I mean, we're literally trying to attack our incredible capitalists who are actually solving these problems. While our politicians can't get their **** together and make desal plants and nuclear plants, it private markets seems like the only solution sacks out of well, there's an old saying that pessimists get to be right and optimists get to be rich. And yeah. I mean, if you think about it, if you think about it, you know, pessimists don't create companies right there. Are there? No. If they throw rocks, they become journalists. They become shaped coasters on Twitter. They become critics. Yeah. Anton ego, right. Tattoo is sax. What do you think about this idea that, you know, if we get into the throes of it for water, the folks that own water rights? I think that this is going to be like an eminent domain issue where the government is at some point just going to say sorry, need it back. It's mine. Yeah. During an emergency, for sure. For sure, but I mean, I I I I I hate to. I hate to use the words I agree with jakal, but. But, you know, look, there's not a shortage of water in the world, right? I mean, the world is mostly water, so it is a function of building desalinization plants. If that's what we need, there has to be a solution for that problem. And Freeberg's right that maybe it does take a decade or two to to put in place all that infrastructure. But then why didn't we start 10 years ago? You see, we should be starting a program where we convince the American public that abundance would lead to them having more freedom and our country. Being stronger. Electrical abundance with nuclear water abundance with desalinization and agricultural abundance with those previous two. Because if you had unlimited nuclear energy and you had unlimited clean water, the price of agriculture will go down and we'd have more free food for everybody or lower cost food. I'll tell you, I'll tell you a theory I have on this and and it's basically an anti science theory, which is that, you know, culturally we've kind of developed this anti innovation, anti science mentality broadly speaking. Across kind of modern culture in the United States, if you remember coming out of World War Two. And I think it has its roots in the Cold War, you know, out of when World War Two ended, you know, we were all in it together. You know, this country, everyone bought the same stuff. We all had Rice Krispies every day. We all kind of, you know, we're excited about our, our, our homes that look like everyone else's home on the block. And technology was empowering all of this, right? There was a space race on. There were plastics that were suddenly allowing us to make all sorts of amazing. Things, there were chemicals that were creating new drugs for humans and new applications for agriculture that was making an abundance of food and increasing lifespans and so on. But then what happened in the late 60s and 70s is we realized we got ahead of ourselves and, you know, there was a cancer from DDT. There was, you know, three Mile Island. There was. A number of pollutants that got into the environment that permanently damaged the environment from chemical companies, and we started to wake up and say, like, wait a second, all of this technology that we thought was so great and was giving us this extraordinary abundance, it turns out it's really risky and can cause massive unknown consequences. And if you watch, I think I talked about this in our podcast once, but one of my favorite videos to watch. There's a video on YouTube from the Disney Channel History Institute and they show the history of Tomorrowland at Disneyland when Tomorrowland. Opened in 1955, every ride was all about adventuring into space and like traveling into the human body. And they even had a ride for Monsanto where you would go into the micro world and look at plastics and stuff and it was all about this amazing abundance in technology and the guy that the narrator on the video says, beginning in the late 60s, early 70s, we changed all the rides and the rides all became about the fear of technology. It was all about aliens attacking Earth. It was all about Captain EO was like, you know, the the world became robotic and got taken over by unnatural things, even star tours. It's about a robot that went awry, and the robot doesn't know what it's doing. So it drove us off course, and we have to survive the robot. And so everything became, you know, subconscious or subliminally a little bit, this negative technology sentiment. And I think that that's still persists. You know, there is an asymmetry. People take for granted the abundance over time because you get used to it, but you feel the acute pain of the loss when technology goes awry. And then that becomes the social conscience. And I think we're still grappling with that. And I don't know how you reverse it. You know what? Are we not experiencing this right now? Everybody with COVID, where there's one group of people who are like, Oh my God, the science we were able to deploy in COVID and get through this so quickly is so promising that the world's going to be better. Net net after the pandemic, even with all the suffering, you could make an argument that that suffering is going to lead to more prosperity. And there's another group of people who are like the Delta variant. Let's get our masks back on and and people want to take the cynical rat on as a as an individual. I don't want harm done to me or my kids or my environment. That's that's the, I think, the general kind of conscience, right? And I don't care about the abundance because I've basically taken it for granted. And so now I find myself as an individual. Saying, you know what we shouldn't do? Nuclear. Because look at what happened in Fukushima. Forgetting the fact that you've been living off of free electricity practically for decades or whatever. The you know the case my free water and free water and all these things. And I think the the the abundance that technology delivers to humans because humans are only programmed to recognize change. They're not programmed to recognize absolutes. There's a lot of good socio psychological and evolutionary examples that give us an example of that. Like if you know if you go to the store every day and you're used to just getting a $1.00 can of coke. You don't say, Oh my God, I feel it's an amazing world. I live and I get a $1.00 can of coke. You never praise that $1.00 can of coke. Now, if you went to the store and the can of Coke went up to $2.00, you'd be like, what the heck? Why does coke cost so much? And so, you know, so we habituate, but we habituate to the great things that our price of coke dropped to $0.50. You're like, OK, that feels good. And then you get used to the price of coke being $0.50. And a few weeks later, if it goes up, you're upset, but you're not as happy on the other way. So human. Motion is kind of asymmetrically, you know, defined by these negative consequences. And I think over time you accumulate these negative consequences as your core psyche and you have an aversion to doing, you know, innovative things as a whole. Not all people, but as a whole. That's how we operate, and it's why technology kind of gets lambasted over over time. This is the most frustrating thing to me, chamath is that we have so many amazing things happening in technology and nobody will 10X or 100X on them from the government perspective of the public. I had a company called 0 Mass on my podcast, which I think is now called source. And you're aware of this company. Maybe you could talk a little bit about the impact hydro panels would make if we just embrace this technology. Well, I mean, source, source is an incredible, incredible company. Basically, there's a there's a guy who runs a Cody Friesen who, when he was at MIT, basically developed a essentially a material, a membrane that can absorb the ambient. Water that's in the atmosphere and basically allow you to collect it and to separate it into its components and to basically create. Potable salinized or potable, drinkable water in a panel that looks like a solar panel. So you put these solar arrays everywhere and out of the back you put a little pipe and it collects the humidity in the ambient air and and it spits out water. It's it's an incredible thing and he's able to go and rewire schools and and The thing is he can go anywhere because again, he doesn't need anything, right? You literally put it on your roof. It's incredible and it makes you if you. I think he told me at the time when I interviewed him two or three years ago. He said you could put two of these on your roof and get like 4 cases of bottled water a day, no matter where you are on the planet. And by the way, he's moving to a place which is really cool. He told me this. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to say it, but I'll say it anyways. Are you saying this might be beeped? No. Where he's gonna beat candidate? No. He'll have eventual app where you can kind of direct the the hydro panel to make the kind of water that you like. So if you love Avalon or if you love. Butter, or if you love smart water or you're on the floors, right? Specifically because it's the most expensive. I I love. I love smart water. And I I have a very gratuitous reason why. I remember when I met jobs, he drank smart water and I thought it was good enough for him. Is good enough for me. I'll tell you, when I knew chemotherapy, I just gonna copy people like, you got a copy, the good ones. And I was just like, this is a personal anecdote. This is when I knew Chamath made it. We used to play poker in his garage in his little 3000 square foot Palo Alto house, Little Burlingame, Burlingame in Burlingame, whatever. He had this little tiny house and we're in the garage and he's like, look, I'm putting up a flat panel. I'm gonna, like, paint the wall. So we had a little, you had a little easel and you'd write on chalk how much you owed, you know? Then chamath like I got a new house. He's got his new house. We come over, it's like, Jacob, you want some water? I'm like, yeah. I love glasses. Like, you want average. Yeah. Take a glass of water and he goes ohh and he walks over to a rack. And in the rack, like, you know those things, you push wine on, there's a rack for water and there is Voss and the glass bottles. There is evion and glass bottles. Alt. And you're not like the Avion that you get at the regular supermarket. Like somebody sourced the Evian bottles that restaurants have. And then he had the smart one. I mean, there's 60 and then like, I just wanted a glass of water. Yep. OK. I'll take the avian and the glass bottle. It was delightful, sacks. I got three different bounce passes. I can give you just where you want it. Do you want cancel culture? Do you want chesa boudin or COVID? What do you want? Or COVID? I can give you any of these. I can. I'm ready to pass. I'm talking about any of those sound good to me? I mean, the, the, the IT might be time for a chase update, because we haven't done that in a while. The killer DA. The killer DA. Yeah. By the way, I just want to say I found the journalist. You know, the journalist. Sacks. Don't say her name. And she is setting up her LLC and the $60,000 we raised from the GO Fund me is going to go to her to cover the DA's office for the next 6 to 12 months in a newsletter website, right. And just to be clear, because I think people kind of misinterpreted what you're trying to do there with the go fund me jakal. This is not for opposition research. This is not, this is not digging up dirt. This is reporting on, on public policy, on what should be public facts with respect to. What the DA's office is doing, how Chasa is performing in his job. Isn't it interesting, though, how the left journalist, when I hired an investigative journalist to cover criminal justice, accuse me of hiring an Oppo researcher? And these are investigative journalists, and I told them explicitly I'm just hiring an investigative journalist to cover crime in San Francisco. There's no opera research here. And they insisted on saying I wanted to get it to Chess's personal life, and I explicitly said that's not what this is for. Well, let's face it, there aren't too many. Journalists anymore who are investigative, who are actually in the business of turning up new facts about elected officials. They're too busy pushing a narrative. They're engaged in agenda journalism. And actually we saw a really good example just to tie into. To what's happened over the past week is you had this story in the San Francisco Chronicle, which is basically pure propaganda. From you could see that the the passing from Chasa to this reporter of this, this farcical claim that crime is falling in San Francisco. I mean, this claim is so preposterous we this is the same week we saw viral videos of 10 robbers. Bursting out a Neiman Marcus, you know, with with every handling. Yeah, exactly. And so, you know, plus you had the virus. Scary. Yeah. You had the viral video of the the guy going into CVS and just, you know, it wasn't even shoplifting. It was. Did you see Brian Sugars video of the person who broke into his house, stole his kids iPads and everything while they were in the house? And Cyan Banister, who had another home invasion, just tweeted. Home invasions are now. Not prosecutable crimes in San Francisco? Well, no. What they're doing is what Cyan reported about her case is, and by the way, her case is in the public eye. OK, so it's very brazen for the DA to be doing this, but what they did is they dropped the home invasion charges and they're just treating it as basically a a theft of, you know, a few $100, you know, that does not capture the violation of breaking into someone's house and how dangerous that is. But. I originally I thought, OK, why is the DA's office doing this? Originally I thought, well, maybe it's just because, you know, Chase doesn't want to incarcerate anybody. But it's more than that. You see, if they drop the charges down to petty larceny, then he can include it in a different stat. You see, home burglaries are up by some gargantuan amount, like 50% year over year. They want to be able to claim crime is falling. It's now they're juking the stats by reducing the charges from the more serious crime to the less serious crime. And then. They do it. They're shaping the stats. They're juking the stats. You ever watched the the show? The wire? That's where this expression comes from, is, you know, first the the politicians get held, held accountable to the statistics. Then they realize that. Then they start manipulating the facts. And that's just basically so dirty. It's so dirty. But but the next step in the process is they then feed these Juke stats to these compliant reporters. I mean, the fact that they keep repeating these statistics as going down when. People are stopping reporting crimes because they wouldn't prosecute them. Then they mischaracterize them. And then they never say 85% of the commuters coming into San Francisco are no longer coming into San Francisco. And Target announced like Walgreens that they are either closing stores or reducing the hours because they can't deal with the crime. And they're saying explicitly, this is the highest crime we've ever seen in any of our stores. And then this crazy communist, are they communists on the left here? CVS, Walgreens. The target are all closing stores or reducing store hours because they understand the hits of their bottom line. But you have this mantra. It is it is communist, like where it's like the commandments written on the barn in Animal Farm where it is propaganda that's so at odds with reality. It's just absurd. OK, it's farcical, it's farcical. But then how do they enforce it? What they say is anybody who questions this narrative is a bad person, is in fact a claim racist. It's just in a Klansman. So. So this is the other thing that happened over the past week is that you had, this is crazy that basically Michelle Tandler, who is a moderate and is nicer person as you could ever find, concerned Citizen, concerned Citizen, San Francisco born and raised, who tweeted that all of her friends are thinking about leaving the city. And then in response to that, you had this this senior policy adviser to chase, a boudin, who works for the DA's office, named Kate Chatfield. Attacker basically implying her views were, you know, were KKK values for for for having the audacity to warn that people are worried about crime in San Francisco. So she gets attacked. By the way, this this Chatfield person, the top of her profile is the clenched fist of the communist revolution. Jakal. So this is who's running the DA's office. But but look, it's not just. Trolling, and it's not even just slander. It's I think an abuse of power for someone in the DA's office to go after and attack a concerned citizen like this. OK, but this is how they enforce. Can you read the tweet that she did? You have that there? Because she basically is. The people who have experienced home invasions are concerned for the safety of their families and what this woman did. Michelle, I believe, is her name. She just said. Like people are scared for their families. And then Kate Chatfield. Reference birth of a nation. And compared her to oh, our wives are not safe because of black people, and that's OK. Everybody knows. Everybody understands. What? Birth nation. Yeah. The original name of birth of a nation, I think, was the clansman. Yeah. Yeah. It's like a KKK piece of propaganda. Wow. But it's really outrageous. She just blocked me. Kate Chatfield blocked me. Wow. This is a public policy advisor who is now hiding her account. Well, what? I mean, a public official should not do that. I mean, they should be. So this set you off? Let's be let's be honest. To set you off. I know Michelle Chandler. She worked at Yammer, you know, and I didn't. I thought it was. Out of bounds for not just a public official, but someone in the DA's office. Who did you do? Well, you went into revenge mode. Let's be honest, you got a little bit. You were a little bit. Tweaked. I donate another $50,000 to the recall chasing campaign, and you dedicated it to Kate. You said this is for you. Yeah, because look, the this is threatening. Every American should have the right to criticize their government without having its law enforcement arm come down on them. And so here you have a legitimate concern expressed by a private citizen, and the DA's office is coming down on them. That's not acceptable. I think I need to break some news. I didn't want to talk about this publicly, but I'm so outraged now that I think I should let this out. So while I after the week in the weeks after I started that campaign to hire an investigative journalist for chess's office. This is breaking news. I haven't talked about this publicly, but I'm going to break it now. Do you know who contacted me? The DA's office. You know what they contacted me about? They were investigating a startup that I had invested in. I would say which one? And they wanted to interview me. About my involvement with that startup, because that startup had some complaint from a downstream investor who felt that they were committing some type of fraud or problem. Coincidence? Are you serious? I'm serious. This is literally becoming Chinatown. They literally tried to intimidate me and I I didn't want to bring it up. And I talked to the person on the the the the the person from the DA's office who was investigating this. And he's. I was like, do I need an attorney for this? Why are you calling me? Because. And he said, well, you know, we just want to talk to you about this. And I was like, yeah, no, we have a bunch of questions. And I just said, you know what? Subpoena me. I'm not, you know, file something and I'll come in with my attorney to talk to you, but I'm not going to talk. With you on background, no? So they literally tried to intimidate me. You know what? And I kind of let them because they didn't want to make it public. But I'm making it public now. You should make it public because public now. Well, because this is 2 weeks after I said let's hire the journalist. It's intimidation tactic that will not be intimidated. That's intimidation. Yeah, I will not be intimidated, chessa. Alright, but what you can see here is OK. Look, I mean, I was intimidated. So. Yeah, I mean, I'm like, I'm not gonna have me intimidated again. Now that I think about it like I didn't do anything wrong here. I put 50K, I put 50 or 100K into a company that didn't work out, and now some other investors complaining and they're trying to tie it back to me somehow. But Jason, you, of course you're gonna be intimidated. The chief law enforcement officer of San Francisco is basically trying to make you the target of an investigation because of what you said publicly. Of course that is intimidation guys. Isn't it possible that they're just interviewing you about a fraud claim? I mean, like what? But think about the timing, Freeburg. It's 23 weeks after. Very. Like, you know. Guys, I gotta. I gotta tell you something to pull. A police officer drove past my house last night. Yeah, freeburg. OK, wait. The first and only time I've ever been contacted by a law enforcement officer over an investment. I'm sure it's just a coincidence. Stop committing fraud. 350 investments. Yeah, listen, Chaser has not had time. He's almost two years in office now, and he has not had time to successfully prosecute 1. Murder trial. Not one, but his office has time to run down. Whatever they are trying to run down with jakal, they don't have time to prosecute the the home invader who broke into cyan banister's home, or Brianna's, or brians. They don't have time to do that, but they somehow have time to contact jakhal. He tweeted the video. Let me explain what's going on here. There's two things going on, I think, one of which is becoming very well understood, but the other one is not. The first one is the Gotham Lization of San Francisco. We understand that crime is out of control. Cynicism and resignation. People are just kind of given into it. It feels like San Francisco has become Gotham City, these viral videos of the robbers brazenly committing daylight theft. There is PS drivers in the street. They're eating a UPS driver in the street. There is no consequence. OK, but there's a second thing happening, which is the Orwellian isation of San Francisco government and San Francisco politics. You not only have the crime, you've got the brazen lies about the crime, you've got this insistence on this animal farm. Commandment that crime is falling, and if you question it, you are a clansman, you're a Klansman. And then they get their the, you know, the the Kate Chatfield to push this out. And then they get academics to back this up. OK, there are now. They get their friends in the media and in the Academy to give these spurious claims credence. And then the final step is that the rich virtue signalers pay these people off. They pay the protection money. Who's paying off that doesn't? Moskovitz says the Mike Krieger is the Reed Hastings and, you know, even actually the biggest contributor. To chase it right now is a guy who's under SEC indictment for the Ripple scandal. Oh no. Yeah, Chris. Chris. Yes, exactly. So people who need to Curry favor, either because they're they've got their own problems or they just like to virtue signal. Chris Larson is Chess's biggest campaign. Oh, wow. That is dark. Brian Sugar released the video and that person's not gonna be prosecuted. I mean, that is the crazy part. You get somebody on camera and they won't prosecute them. And people forget these are organized gangs that are doing this. This has been proven. This is not a poverty issue. These are not poor people who are stealing bread for their families or trying to make their rent. It's organized gangs, right? Did you realize the prop 47? Did you see the getaway cars for the Neiman Marcus heist? Yeah, they're all like the Mercedes driving great, beautiful cars with their license plates off. This is like mob behavior. And if you give criminals trust me, I grew up in a criminal environment in Brooklyn. If you give criminals a window, they will figure it out. You give them an opportunity. If you give them something to hack, they will hack it. And you basically have green lighted them. OK, listen, it's enough of us complaining about this. I am going to stop complaining about this and I'm moving either let's do COVID because I'm moving to Texas or to Florida. I'm making the announcement. Now hold on. Is that for sure? Jake L? Listen, I, you know, I'm in a partnership and in my partner doesn't want to be here anymore and I'm half and half. So I'm not sure why I'm here anymore. I mean I think California is my position right now. Is California is going to be on a decade long slide and I'm working for 10 more years. I decided I'm 50, I decided I'm going to go to 60, I'm going to try to invest in 100 to 200 companies a year for 10 years and then I'm done. So why would I spend 10 years in a place that is on a debt spiral? Can this be reversed in our in the next decade? I don't know how you feel. How does it feel to be completely red? Build I'm purple pilled. I want to live in a I want to live in a reasonable place. And it seems to me that Austin and Miami are purple, you know, and they're not coming. I don't want to live in a right wing place, Alt right, and I don't want to live in a communist place. I want to live in an American place. I want to live in a place where Americans can talk about issues without being villainized. That's that's what people about this pod. You're not being villainized sass. Just give me a break, all right? Just be you people really want to know if you went to dinner with Tucker. Can you just make that statement that you didn't have dinner with what we got next? You just made what we got. It was a joke. Why can't you admit if you did or not? Listen, free brick and I have 15 minutes. We gotta go COVID delta. People are panicking, but the numbers keep going straight down. Pfizer says Israel says maybe Pfizer is 65% instead of 94 percent. 65% seems pretty great. Are we at any risk? Well, OK, let me jump into this because I've been affected personally by it. So yeah, on the last pod I did I get did give the stat which was that at at that point the the best data we had even a week ago was that that the the Pfizer vaccine was holding it pretty well against the. Delta variant, it had reduced the effectiveness from about 95 to 88%. That's sort of the numbers, I think. On Monday, Israel released a new study showing that the effectiveness of Pfizer against Delta had been reduced to 64%. Now that's against, you know, getting symptoms and and testing positive. It was still 93% against serious cases requiring hospitalization. But that 93% is down from, you know, 99% plus. So there has been reduced. Blackness by delta it's it is a little bit concerning and as if to under score this point, someone very close to me just who was double faced with Pfizer just tested positive. He did test positive. So he he woke up yesterday morning with with cold symptoms. He had sore throat, runny nose but he's fine and a slight fever which then graduated to a headache. He went and got tested and he tested positive for COVID so I think he's fine. City was he in when this happened? LA OK let me ask a question to freeberg. Is it not the best possible situation? I know this sounds like a stupid question but I am the lowest IQ guy on the pod. Is it not the best situation to have the Pfizer or whatever have this amazing, then to get a mild case of COVID and then be doubly protected? Is that in some way an ideal situation if there is no long haul COVID? It's not really clear if that's going to make a difference, you know, again, like, remember? Acquired immunity is on a spectrum, right? So a virus can get in your nose, starts replicating, and if you got a ton of antibodies that immediately get to your nose, it'll shut down that virus before you experience anything. If that virus gets in your nose and starts replicating and you've got a kind of, you know, your antibodies to that specific virus you know, aren't as concentrated, it's going to take your body a little bit longer to fight off that virus. But you're still well ahead of the game as a way to think about it, and so, you know, to some extent. What we're seeing most likely is this delta variant having a greater escape velocity from people that have been vaccinated than, you know, the alpha variant or any of the other variants we've seen. And so as a result, you know people are getting to date. Luckily, knock on wood. Mostly mild and moderate symptoms and only a minority of people that are exposed are are getting, you know, that condition, but it's being tracked really closely. I mean like like Zach said in Israel they have now said that you know, if you're vaccinated with five, they're double backs with fizer you're now 64%, you know, effective and you're, you know that that means that if you're exposed to to COVID, there's a a chance you can actually get these symptoms. But the hospitalization rate and the fatality rate. It's still way, way low because you have built up enough immunity, you've built up enough antibodies to have a good strong defense to keep things from getting out of control. And so, knock on wood, right now we're still looking good in terms of fatality and hospitalizations, but there's certainly, you know. What do you think of this situation and Timothy or markets kind of worrying about this because I'm kind of wondering like as as as market participants see this stuff, are they trading it in a way that's like fearful and does this lead to some market conditions in the next couple of days and weeks? I mean, I think that there's a very good chance that some politicians are going to try to use this for another shutdown in the fall. I thought so. Yeah, I think you're right. And I think the teachers unions, the NEA and the FT are already putting all sorts of demands on going back to school. I don't think this date. So first of all, I think we have to be intellectually honest that this is a bad data point. This is really the first bad data point that we've gotten until now. All the data has been good that protection from the vaccines last longer and had been completely holding up against the variance. But this data point from Israel is not a great data point. I want to see more of them, more data. But I don't think that this by itself. Wait a second. Didn't Israel only get to like 5560% vaccinated? Ohh no, they're they're way higher. No, they're way higher than that. Yeah. Half of the infections they're seeing in Israel are children that were not vaccinated. And then the the other, that's what are the other half are adults. And so if you look at the adult infection rate, it looks like it's something around 15%. Of the you know of these or I I forgot the number. But there's some statistic that shows that it's not the majority being vaccinated. They're unvaccinated people that are, look, we're going to probably, we're going to probably need a booster and we're probably going to be on a cocktail. But beyond that, I think we need to make a moral decision that we are all getting back to life as normal. Yeah, 100%. I'm done. I'm not there. There will be both. There will be boosters for sure, like this fall. Yeah, exactly. And I think. The the, the question about this this data is does it warrant a change in policy? And I would say not yet, you know, 100% not yet. I mean, we the whole policy idea was ICU's being filled. And if you look at the stats in the United States at the deaths, we are now at a seven day average of under 200. I think it's 150 deaths per day. Some it's again, I'll ask you, free bird, how many of those are with COVID versus from COVID? Unclear, but like Israel hasn't had a single death in two weeks from COVID, right. So what are we talking about despite this increase in numbers? It's it's still a right. It's not, it's not what the media likes to portray, which is variance punching through, right. I mean it's not like Delta variant is just sweeping through Israel, OK? There is a slight increase in cases and we're definitely seeing elevated cases here in the US I mean Delta variants can become the main, the dominant strain if it isn't already. Look, it's mostly sweeping through areas that have not been vaccinated, but there are now cases, I'd say mostly mild cases of people who have been vaccinated. I mean, I think it's all the more reason why if you're an adult you should get vaccinated. We really do need all adults, barring some sort of, you know, highly specific immune condition that we're you. You need to be on some sort of different treatment. But almost all adults in the US really should giving vaccinated. Otherwise we're going to have to keep having these variants sweep through. I'll tell you, I had a really good conversation with an infectious disease doctor yesterday who's a research specialist and well known in this space. And he pointed out that the evolutionary cycle of this virus is a function of how many people are not vaccinated. Because the more bodies the virus has to hop, the faster the more evolution it can do, the more it evolves, right? Yes. And so, you know, certain virologists and epidemiologists will model this where they will highlight kind of the the evolutionary rate of the virus as a function of unvaccinated people getting infected every day. And so the more people that we get vaccinated. The longer the timeline it takes for the virus to evolve and get to a breakthrough variant, and so we need to accelerate and continue to push people to get vaccinated worldwide to reduce the available pool for evolutionary success of the virus. Yeah, it's it's to put it in maybe layman's terms, all these unvaccinated people are basically like a giant Petri dish for the virus to keep, to keep mutating. And we do need, I think, like a Marshall Plan to help all these other countries get vaccinated. I mean, I think we have enough vaccines in the US. But what have we done to help all these other countries? It directly benefits us if we reduce the size of that Petri dish. This delta variant came from India. Why? There's like a billion plus people there who, you know, for the virus to mutate on. I mean, obviously with the Petri dish that big, you're going to get a variant. Now there's a new variant coming out of Peru which looks potentially scary. Now, these are not full breakthrough variants yet, but to freiberg's point, it's just a matter of time. You guys want to guess the bottom two states in the country. I mean, it's just in terms of Mississippi and Alabama. Alabama. Exactly. Can you imagine Mississippi and Alabama, 33%. Come on, get your act together and it's going to whip through those places and you're all going to die. You're going to kill your grandparents. Is that an evangelical movement issue? Is that it's it's it's. Well, we talked about this last pod. There's two groups in America who are most Republican men pulled. No, let's be more specific. It's evangelicals and African Americans. Those are the two groups. Most you keep saying, you keep saying, and then what does? How do you pronounce it? Eventually, angelical evangelicals. It's actually male Republicans. Why can't you? You're not being specific enough, guys. I got, I got. I gotta run. Love you, freeberg. We love you. Let your winners ride Rain Man, David Sass. We open sources to the fans and they've just gone crazy with it. Why? Besties are all. My dog taking out your driveway? Ohh man. We should all just get a room and just have one big huge **** because they're all useless. It's like this, like sexual tension that they just need to release them out. The beat, beat. See what we need to get merchants?