All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg

Industry veterans, degenerate gamblers & besties Chamath Palihapitiya, Jason Calacanis, David Sacks & David Friedberg cover all things economic, tech, political, social & poker.

E16: Reflecting on the riots at the US Capitol, plus: Georgia runoff elections, vaccine distribution & more

E16: Reflecting on the riots at the US Capitol, plus: Georgia runoff elections, vaccine distribution & more

Fri, 08 Jan 2021 06:47

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The Killer D.A. by David Sacks

Show Notes:

0:00 New intro for the besties - listen here:

2:14 Sacks' trip to Miami

6:01 Reflecting on the riot at the US Capitol: police response, double standard with BLM protest, big picture, prosecuting Trump & healing the nation post-Trump

29:43 2016 Election interference, reasons for unrest & polarization, Trump's culpability

44:19 Should the 25th Amendment be invoked?

49:51 Democrats win Georgia runoff elections, did Trump's implosion lose Georgia for the GOP?

56:23 How Friedberg would handle vaccine distribution

1:07:45 San Francisco's Killer D.A., recalling Gavin Newsom, Kim Kardashian for Governor of CA

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I'm doing all this with you. When you. Hello. Let your winners ride Rain Man. David sassa? We open sources to the fans and they've just gone crazy with it. Besties are. That's my dog taking your driveway. Ohh man. Should all just get a room and just have one big huge order because they're always useless. It's like this, like sexual tension that they just need to release stuff out there. Beat, beat. See what we need to get merchants on? Alright, and we're back and thank you too. Young Spielberg with the all in 1.5 extended edition remix. We're going all in. That was into the Super fans. That was really incredible. Actually. We're back. We're back. Spielberg. Yeah, shout out young Spielberg with us. The dictator Chamath Polly. Hypatia. The Rain Man himself. David Sacks is definitely an excellent driver and his dad lets him drive in the driveway and. The Queen of Quinoa spectacular. David Frieberg is with us. We did an emergency pod. We just had all agreed we're taking a nice break. Nothing's gonna happen over the New year. This is the down. And 2021 is gonna be delightful and simple. And then all hell breaks loose. We could start with the vaccine, we could start with the capital. We could start with Georgia. Now we have to start. We have to start, we have to start with the capital. We have to start with the capitals. Alright, so let me just run through the series of events that occurred here. There is a certification process, correct, sacks, that goes on where the Electoral College gets counted. And somewhere at 10:00 AM, Trump had a rally of thousands of supporters. You were not there, David, correct. We're at this rally. He was in, quote, UN quote Miami, right? I think he's in the Miami Hilton on Pennsylvania Ave right now. How do you put up that fake Miami background? But the truth is, let's be honest here, Trump came out at 10:00 AM and had a rally. Jason, can we just take his thought back for a second? Doesn't doesn't David Sachs look like Elliott Gould and Ocean's 11 right now? Ohh Elliott Gould. He is a silver fox. And are you? I mean, you were very public about being in Miami over the new year. You took your talents to Miami and we see this background. So we can assume that dictators in his pool house, poker room. We know that freeberg's in a Ritz Carlton somewhere based on the furniture. He's in his Ritz Carlton's office. And sacks, based on your background, are you in Miami right now? Yeah. Are you still there? I still. I'm still. I'm still here. OK. But, David, did you meet me or not? I I haven't. I actually met him. I did meet him. I went to like a tech event the other night and he was there. So were you wearing masks at the tech event or are you wearing a mask? Mask? They were like, no, no, no, I'll tell you, there were masks indoors, and then there was like COVID testing inside. And then you could graduate to the outdoor patio part where people generally weren't wearing masks. So were you in conversations with people with no masks on? Is that what you're saying at this? Yeah. But, you know, everyone's been like COVID tested like a zillion times and it was outdoors. And, you know, I'm willing to meet with people outdoors. You know, I generally don't do it indoors, but I'm. Yeah, I'm. That I've I've I've said that's my policy starting several months ago. Did we did we were a wind to April with that photo of Zach do we have it where he was in the ski mask and the goggles and the helmet and like the biohazard suit and like how things have changed she's like I'll go to Miami and have a chat with someone. Yeah you you could you could you you you could definitely do a how it started and how it's going split photo for it. But but look you're like sharing a banana split with Someone Like You know like. Well, because on eBay and Alibaba buying ventilators right for his home triage center. Well, I mean, we, we had people from The Who saying in March that the, you know, that the case fee, the infection fatality rate was like 7%. You know, and the two big things we learned after that were, number one, that there was a huge distribution by age, right. And so somebody under 50 without comorbidities had a much, much, much lower risk. And then also the thing we learned is that the there's, there's maybe a 10X difference between the infection fatality rate and the case fatality rate. I mean, you guys know all this. Yeah. And so so. Once we learned those things, I mean, I, you, you know, I think a rational person takes things like that into account. I changed my policy with respect to COVID, you know, and and now especially that we have. You know, easy access to tests which weren't available. You can get tested before going into a event. So I have a question to add on to that. Do you own a fur Chewbacca outfit and were were you in Washington DC yesterday? Floor paint on your do you have a podium? Do you have a neck to waist tattoo? Are you standing behind a podium? I mean, hide the, the Viking horns that I've got stashed away here. Alright, listen, there was a great there was a title. Can we title yesterday's event, National Lampoon Siege of the Capital. I mean, it was like animal house, like, you know. Yeah, there was a great there was a great tweet by somebody saying this was, this was like the storming of the Bastille as perpetrated by the cast of Animal House. Right. And then, and there was another, there's another great tweet saying the capital now appears to be under the control of a man in a Viking mask. The best one, the best one was I have lost all respect for Nicolas Cage's ability to steal the US Constitution. Yeah, apparently, yeah, whatever. Copies went alright, so let's just go through the chain of events here. And it was it was absolutely surreal. Because. Trump literally went out to a a mob of people and said I want you to March down Pennsylvania Ave and show the GOP what it takes to have courage, etcetera. Mike Pence apparently told Trump that he was not going to go to bat for him in this ceremonial process of counting the votes. And lo and behold, you're watching this, you know, the objections going on to the electoral count. And you see the Secret Service come rushing in and it becomes a, you know, very serious situation and when you watch some of the videos, it is truly terrorizing that thousands of people overwhelmed the police and. I guess I want to start with people's opinion on Trump's culpability in. Inciting what was very dangerous behaviour. Four people are dead. So we you know, while we're joking about the cosplay outfits, a woman who was a an ardent Trump supporter who is a vet who did 4 tours from what I've read and I shared the video with you before, literally. You know as they broke into the building, was trying to breach another area of the building and she's climbing through a window and gets shot apparently by the Secret Service or the police and dies. And so it's all fun and games until four people are dead, and now somebody's lost their wife. Daughter? No. Jason. Jason. I mean, they're there could have been 400 dead. There could have been 4000. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, this could become a shootout at the OK Corral. I can't understand why the police showed the restraint they did. I mean, when you see them getting surrounded, you saw the one they didn't. They didn't show restraint, Jason. There was no police. When you look at the amount of security that's typically there and. Has been there for other situations and then you compare it to the amount of security knowing for a month and 1/2 that this was coming. It's it just doesn't make any sense to me. So I'm a little, I'm a little dumbfounded that, you know, you couldn't have seen this Facebook group called, you know, #stormed the capital, which had 10s of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of members in there plotting and scheming, selling merchandise called Storm the capital. You know, these guys were wearing printed. Sweatshirts that they had time to make and nobody knew about it and nobody thought to reinforce. The security and barricaded and make sure that you couldn't go from the protest site to the I mean I it just seems like there's some level of complicity that needs to get found out here. But there was a there was an interview I saw with an ex DC police guy who said that I think folks were told to tamper down the police forces were told to tamper down on managing crowds and protests and riots following the controversy associated with BLM a few months ago and spraying folks with pepper spray and water and all the. Physical techniques that were used were so outraging that that there was just more of a systemic concern about being too aggressive with protesters, and as a result they went too far the other way. It's it's not an unreasonable just happens to be Friedberg that when black people protested and brown people they got the tear gas and beaten with batons, and then when the white people stormed the the. The capital in the same area they got uh, walked down the steps and escorted out. With a stern warning to not do it again. I mean it. This is hypocritical and insane. I, I, I don't know why you have to go there particularly. It it it looked to me like what happened is that the Capitol Hill police simply got completely overwhelmed. You look at these, you know, giant. This is a rally on the mall that turned into a mob. Well, first it's kind of turned into a tailgater, then it turned into a mob, and then it turned into an insurrection. It kind of stumbled forward into progressive. Phases of of stupidity and disaster. But it's it looked to me like the Capitol Hill police simply got overwhelmed. They they obviously were unprepared. They were surprised, I think, by this. And I saw a video of tons of tear gas being used. I saw people getting tear gas like crazy. And I think there was reports this morning on Twitter that the whole area in front of the Capitol there was covered in that light film that remains after tear gassing. So I don't think they were really pulling punches too much. And I also think that. That there will be prosecutions. I think that these people were were captured on video. There's a lot of talk on Twitter and everybody is in favor of finding out who they are, applying facial recognition and bringing charges. So I think there will be a lot of charges unlike, let's say that the BLM protests this summer, I don't remember anybody getting charged based on video of people rioting or looting and then I think. You know, the, the, the, the. The final difference, actually, with the BLM protests is that if you've watched Fox News at all in the last 24 hours, the condemnation of what of the storming of the capital, of what happened has been across the board, both right and left. Everybody across the political spectrum has condemned it. Nobody is apologizing for it. Nobody on the right is looking for root causes to explain the reasons why it happened. Everybody is just condemning it and saying that it should never have happened. And the people who did it should be prosecuted and so I don't see any kid gloves here being used you know either physically or glove sacks is when you see officers being chased up the steps and or taking selfies you know which is 1 instance. I don't want to just say that's the only indicative thing but when people are breaking through windows. And just kind of being let go. I mean, they were obviously overwhelmed, but I'm surprised more people didn't get shot. Chamath, let's just, David, tackle this head on in terms of the race issue, but I haven't. Well, I have a I have a question for David before I make my statement. David. OK. Do you think that if this were black and brown people storming the capital, would there have been more or less than 4 deaths? Honestly, I think would have been the same. I just disagree. You know, I disagree. I really disagree. And I'll tell you why. I think you have the best of intentions, wanting to think that way. But here's the way I see it. I see a president that basically instigated. A group of people who are fundamentally disenfranchised, let's face it, like there are there are a lot of very, very reasonable Republicans and a lot of very reasonable Democrats. The fringes of both parties are functionally mentally ********. We know this, OK? And So what you see are extreme on both sides who are just completely lost and looking for any excuse. And so you have a president in the tail end of his presidency, an anonymous Presidency, basically call them out. Nobody who actually had a job or anything to do could show up, right? So you had all these people show up. It's a Wednesday. It's a Wednesday during the day, I mean, and what do you think happens? They're there? They're all frothed up. You know, Eric Trump frothing them up, Donald Trump junior frothing them up, Trump frothing them up, Giuliani frothing them up. And all of a sudden, as you said, stumbling into degrees of of craziness and stupidity to storm the capital. And I just think to myself, how could a president instigate this kind of action #1. The second thing I think about is when black. Athletes peacefully protested. As something that they had the fundamental constitutional right to protest. In the president's eyes, they were **** ** *******. White people that stormed the ******* capital, the People's House, Yep, we're called patriots by the president's daughter and she told. And then we're told that they were loved by the president himself. To me, it's just an enormously stark contrast of a double standard. I think that beyond the persecutions of the people, I actually feel very bad for the people that stormed the capital. I feel like these are folks that are on the fringes who just need a vessel, and Trump is a vessel, and then he instigate them and runs away, you know what I mean? He's lost and these are lost people. Then these guys commit the crime and now they're going to go to jail. I feel like the. The culpability has to go all the way back to Trump, to Hawley, to Cruz, at these guys are those are the real scumbags in all of this freeberg. What are your thoughts on this? And then I'll go back to sacks and let him respond. Yeah, I don't, I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that if this was a Black Lives matter and and and it was black people involved or brown people involved in in the same sorts of activities you saw yesterday that you would not see. More shootings. I don't think that's an unreasonable position to take it. Obviously. I think there's this other circumstance, which is that event preceding this one. As I mentioned, I I saw an interview with the DC police, former police direct director of the police or some. I forgot what his title was. Where he highlighted that, you know, folks were kind of instructed to stand down following the BLM controversies. And so I think that's also kind of a reasonable point of view. And it's probably the president's culpability. I mean I think that's one issue that's gonna have to be addressed post and I think we have to figure out what life post Trump is going to be like because this is a level of chaos that nobody to saxis point all people condemned. It's, yeah, there's a, there's a, there's a theory which actually takes its origin from from Hitler where Hitler used this term. The big lie. And you know the theory is that you can create political propaganda. By saying something that's so outrageous, it is so improbable that people say there's no way this thing keeps getting said over and over unless it's actually real. And this is sort of like the Q Anon pedophile ring and the pizzeria or the fact that the election was stolen from you. It is such an outrageous statement that that it seems to people that it only has to be true because it is. It is such an insane thing. And if it is, it's so insane and I'm so incited by this thing. So this is kind of a, you know, acknowledged as being, you know, a political propaganda technique that that goes back a long time. The way Hitler used it as a way to to use it as almost like a double bluff to blame the Jews. In in Germany, which was. You know, an unfortunate kind of origin of of the term, but but the term is used a lot now and saying like these sorts of events are ridiculous now what's going to happen going forward. I don't think big lies go away. You can try and mute them on Twitter and mute them on Facebook or mute them on Reddit. But whether it's Q, Anon or whatever is next. This is becoming kind of a standard form now because of the way media is distributed. Anyone can say a big lie and it gets a lot of listeners and and Trump is totally culpable for that. He made some **** up. He made a bunch of claims. I mean if you guys haven't seen. Lindsey Graham speech yesterday. It is absolutely worth watching that he gave late, late last night. I saw it. I saw it. And he's like, he's like, I asked for the for the show me the, the 8, the 10th. Give me 10 people that claim that they voted and they were under 18. He's like, they gave you one give me anyone that that was in prison or died and they gave me 0. And he's like, goes on and on for a couple of minutes about how none of what was said about what happened in the election was true and it was all false. And he's like, this is all just not true. And so I think Trump is culpable for creating a falsehood and and you know having a megaphone and you know there were certain about the inciting of violence. That is I think where the rubber is going to meet the road. Trump's gonna be out of office in two weeks or less one way or the other. Do you and let me just take it to sax. Sax, I want to give you the time to respond to the the issue of the double standard in terms of race and BLM and then also do you sax, if you're. On Biden's team coming in, do you advise that you prosecute Trump or investigate Trump for this insurrection, yes or no? OK, so just just to tie off on the the BLM issue, I I just you know I just found really don't think that race is the issue here chamath. Look, I I don't know at the end of the day what the fatalities would have been if it had been a BLM protest that that went awry. But I will stick to what I said before, which is I predict that you will see more prosecutions come out of this. Of the people who are involved. I'm talking about the people who stormed the capital. Then we saw from all the the BLM protests over the summer. I mean, I don't remember any prosecutions coming out of videotape of people being caught, recorded looting and rioting. And I predict you will see more here and again, I think another difference again to extent there's a double standard. You know, I remember a lot of left wing news networks calling the the rioting and looting this summer peaceful protesters. They clearly were not you even had a book called in defense of Looting. And I don't hear anybody defending the storming of the capital, nobody on the right. So to look to the extent there's a double standard, I don't know that it accrues to the the BLM side of this. But look, I think that's kind of beside the point and not, not the real issue here. I mean, Jason, to your question of is Trump responsible? Yes. I mean clearly 100 percent, 100%, yes, because he he is the one who who put forth this theory that the election was stolen and was constantly repeating it. The last two months, two months ago, right after the election, there was an article published in the Spectator called Deplorables Don't Riot. It was actually a pretty good op-ed. You know, it's written by a conservative and the Conservatives point was that. You know, all these windows and shops have been boarded up in anticipation of potential rioting and looting with the election. And all these concerns are saying, well, who's do you know? Who are they afraid of? You know, not not us, not the MAGA folks. Well then the theory was deplorables don't don't riot and and and and the right was was proud of that two months ago. And now we are seeing that well know that the Deplorables are riding. What? Why is that? What? What changed over the last two months? And what changed is the constant feeding to this group of people, this idea. Starting with Trump, but then perpetuated by, you know, different right wing media organizations and other politicians who sort of were, you know, trying to Curry favor with Trump. They were constantly pushing forward this idea that the election was stolen so that these people on the mall who then Riot and stormed the capital believe that the election was being stolen from them. So, you know, ultimately that responsibility goes is Trump's. So to be clear and reflecting back to you, you're saying Trump incited? Sedation. Is that the right word? Well, sedition. Sedition doesn't seem like the wrong. It doesn't seem like the exact right word to me. I mean, Riot it was it was certainly a riot. Now, now did now, look, I mean, you're talking about prosecuting a legal case. You know, if you want to look at the legal standard for incitement, it has to be, you know, provoking people to take an imminent lawless act. Pretty close, I think. I think he look, if you want to see that this mob as a gun, I think he loaded. Gun he pointed in a certain direction, but did he tell them to storm the capital? No, not specifically. I think therefore would be a very hard case to prosecute. But I think, you know, prosecuting him in a court of law is this is sort of unnecessary and redundant. I mean, I think that in the eyes of the public politically, he is. I think most people see that he's culpable. And I even think most of his political career, I think he's, I think he's disqualified himself from being a candidate, you know, at a national level again. I mean, if you look OK again, you just go back two months ago, look at how much has changed. Two months ago, just in the day or two after the election, Trump had narrowly lost. But there was talk of him starting a new news network to rival Fox. There was talk about he could even be a candidate again in in 2024. It was not off the table. I think now it's it's clearly off the table and you've seen it. It's partly because of the Georgia runoffs which which we should get to. But again, the Republican candidates, at least one of them had won. That election two months ago and now they lost. And that has a lot to do with Trump's antics. In the meantime of just feeding this constant, you know, lie about the stolen election, I think there's a really important question about, you know, sorry. But is it worth prosecuting Trump post fact, you know, does that do more harm or good for the country as a whole? Certainly there will be a lot of people that would get great satisfaction of putting Trump in prison, and a lot of people are calling for that. But we really do need to question the, you know, the incredible divide in the nation and what's the best way to to heal the divide. The objective shouldn't be pursuing justice. It should be about moving forward. I'm not suggesting don't prosecute Trump, but I I think that it's worth, it's worthy of noting that. You know, there is a another way of framing this whole thing, which is what's the best thing to do going forward. Though on the flip side, you could even make the case that one of the best things Joe Biden could do today or tomorrow is to announce a federal Election Review Commission to actually look into wrongdoings at the state level with 100% of bipartisan. Yeah, 100%. Yeah. I mean just slam it's a slam dunk case anyway if Biden did that and he, you know, he basically embraced the, the, the notion that a lot of folks are really angry about and said. Listening to you I'm hearing you let me show you and at the same time they did not prosecute Trump and you know, let him go, go off into the distance and do his own thing. Maybe you start to kind of, you know heal the Rift a little bit. But right now everyone's kind of inflamed and there is this like how do we prosecute him? What do we do when he's, you know, do you know and we're, we're just continuing to kind of escalate the the dialogue and and increase the risk just. Yeah. So look I think prosecuting Trump at this point, first of all it legally that might be a difficult case to prove because of the need to prove. That the that he was trying to provoke an imminent lawless action, you know, if he had been at the barricades, you know, pushing people forward, yes. But so I think Lee Libya, tough case and I think it would be it, like you said, it'd be unnecessarily divisive and partisan. I don't know why we need to go there. I mean, at the end of the day, any politician stock and trade is their credibility and popularity and Trump has fundamentally damaged the perception of him, I think even among the the right. I have a huge issue with this and I'll tell you why. It's because the folks that are now going to go to jail were instigated by this guy. And the folks that were there in many ways were brought. They were cajoled, they were instigated to travel from groomed to travel there to take the time out of their lives to basically then get fed this rhetoric and in a moment of just crazy mob like mentality. To act out at the behest of the leader of the free world, there has to be a consequence, not just to those people, because they in many ways are not the person to prosecute. To the extent that you are going to put some of these people in jail, which we look like, it looks like we're going to. And by the way, let's be honest, there is no inconceivable way that these people get charged with the misdemeanor. That's not going to stand right. And the worst perpetrators of this, when they get put in jail, will get put in jail for five to 10 years minimum. And So what are what are we going to do when we look at ourselves in the eye and say these poor Americans at the end of the day who were instigated by this guy? And he yet again gets off Scott free, while hundreds of Americans who were basically in a peak of craziness fed by this guy does something and goes to jail and you have hundreds of lives and hundreds of families ruined. Even if we don't find a way to basically put Trump in jail for this, I can 100% guarantee you I will bet 1,000,000 bucks. That now the Southern District of New York gloves off. Every single state that can go after this guy gloves off, and to the extent that Joe Biden had any incentive to basically like, let this go away at the federal level, gloves off. In my opinion, I really, I really, really think something, let's let's say that folks do go after Trump. What does that do? If he gets put in jail or he, you know, gets there, there's some criminal proceeding brought against him. What does that do to the 50% of the nation that truly support him and truly care about him? I don't know. I don't like like like the balance of justice versus unification. You know how we were talking actually about 25% of the country, I think. I don't even think it's this right or whatever it is. Like there's obviously a big voting bloc and a big block of the potential block that like I think, I think, I think of the 70 million people that voted for Donald Trump, I think there are half of them who would equally vote for a normal centrist candidate. And Nikki Haley didn't necessarily believe in Donald Trump then I think there's the other 35 million. And I do think that there is a spectrum of those 35. And I think that you probably lost 10 or 15 million of them after the events of yesterday where they just threw their hands up in the air and said, hey, wait, it would really only inflamed 20 million is what? You're correct. And I think I agree with Charles on that. Right. And those 20 million people are, you know, sad to say, concentrated in about 10 states that don't functionally matter economically or otherwise. And so about the balance of justice versus unification, certainly it sounds like you're saying weighs heavily towards justice, right? Like more, more folks will benefit from seeing him come to justice or what perceived justice then I think what it will allow, I think it will allow the Republican Party to recenter itself. I think that's better for politics. I think it's better for governance, it's better for America. I think it allows a lot of people to basically wake up out of this haze that they've been in for years and say, wow, wait a minute, it's enough. Like I was on a really bad Bender. I did a couple things I really regret and I need to recenter myself. How do you not find this turning into a *** for tat? Berlusconi, Italy, Brazil, Israel kind of phenomenon where, you know, future leaders are then attacked and challenged and taken the best taken to court. The best tweet I saw on this was this woman tweeted out that the following, she said. When the Democrats lost in 2016, they knitted pink hats and donated to Planned Parenthood. No, they didn't. No, they didn't. They invented a ridiculous Russian conspiracy theory. They David that like 10 people went to the Russia hoax. The Russia hoax. No one went to jail, folks. No one. What? They were the Russians were obviously trying to. You're like the last person. You're like the last person who still believes in this. Well, listen, I still believe that they tried and I still believe, I don't know that they succeeded, but I think they're Mueller. Mueller spent two years investigating this. 10s of millions of dollars, 25 FBI. And yeah, these are all agents, GOP talking points. The fact is Manafort. Went to jail for something completely unrelated. These guys were you must be the last person who still believes that Trump won in 2016 because of Russian interference. I think that they, I think he asked the Ukraine for help and I think he asked the Russians for help, and I think that he would have gladly accepted the help. Now is it it? Was it a a conspiracy like in the crank? No, it wasn't a conspiracy. Didn't even know if it affected it, but it didn't. This is the problem with your Russia talking point, is that you're trying to just say because. He didn't get prosecuted, which he's probably not gonna get prosecuted for this either. The guy wasn't just serial offender, OK? And they were trying to get information from WikiLeaks and they were trying to get the the hacks. And so I don't know why you can so clearly see what he's doing, David, when he incites this violence and then you don't see that he would. He has no moral backbone or character and that he wouldn't accept foreign aid. He's a he's a treasonous, not that *******. Here, here's my view. OK, here's my view is that. When you lose an election as a candidate you have to look in the mirror and ask what you did wrong. OK Trump failed to do that two months ago instead of just taking the L and you know and he he could have blamed it on the fact that vaccine was one week late. I mean there were there he you know instead of just accepting the loss he invented this conspiracy theory that the election was stolen and he's basically like Freeberg said been pumping it month after month and you know his enablers you know have have perpetuated until we had this you know total breakdown and storming of. Of the capital. But again, you know, where was the democratic reassessment of why they lost in 2016? Who on the Democrat side looked in the mirror and said, you know, we shouldn't have lost that election. You know, what did we do wrong? They didn't do that. Instead, they blamed it all on Russian interference or Facebook. You know, all of a sudden Facebook went from being a darling to being a scapegoat. And there was Russian ads being bought with rubles and tons of link forms. Confirmed. Done by the Russians in order to ferment. Anti Hillary sentiment. I mean this. No, it's actually happened. It's true. It's true. Hold on. No, no, no effect the election. Nobody can know that. But it did occur. Yes, we can. Because yeah, it did. It did some FSB admitting there was Russian interference. No, you were saying there wasn't and now you're saying there was. Talking about I'm talking about somebody. No, no, it's not. Because here, here's the here's where you're being misleading. Is yes. Is it true that there was some FSB operative somewhere buying ads on Facebook, yet hundreds of them. Hundreds of them, out of thousands, out of billions of impressions? OK, it was a microscopic number of total impressions of the election, and the people who actually looked at those ads thought they were absurd. Imagine some operative. Hold on, let me finish my point. Imagine some operative in Moscow trying to influence the American election by buying ads on Facebook. Did they try? Yes. Look, foreign intelligence services are trying all the time. OK, but was that the try? They did try, yes. But OK. Was that Trump and did Trump and his family ask them? No, there was no help. There was no proof of collusion. There was no proof of collusion. OK, that's what middle take the meeting. OK, no, that's what Mueller. He spent two years investigating it and found no collusion. Look, so my point is again, we're getting off on a rabbit hole here. But my point was when when you as a candidate lose an election, you have to take responsibility for that. That was not done in 2016 and it was not done certainly in 2020 by Trump. It is the problem with both our political parties that they would rather invent conspiracy theories and lies, then acknowledge why people are rejecting them. Yeah, I attribute this I I would say this. But that is not the point, David. You are right, OK? Somewhere along the way we got stuck worrying about the pronouns that we use and which bathrooms should or should not be transgendered, while the American middle class was completely gutted from pillar to post. That is what's created the boundary conditions for this. Every single time there's been an insurrection or an uprising or a revolution in America, it is never been about ideology. It has always been about economics. Always an economics is the tip of the spear in this country, whether we like it or not. It started with the Boston Tea Party, you know, it continued through the Civil War. It has always been about that topic. So we all let it happen. We all have a responsibility to fix it. That, though, is a topic, I think, for another day, because that's the grand arc of what we need to do in our generation and fix this inequality gap. Meanwhile. We do have this tactical issue which is you have the leader of the free world in my opinion, and I think in a lot of reasonable minded people's opinion, instigating. Essentially, at a minimum a riot and at the maximum some form of like. Treason it idiotic form of I I don't I mean the the problem is it's just it is just like it's just it's incomprehensible what it is. I've fallen on the side that we need to prosecute him now I was I was 5050 on this but I'll tell you what's tipped me over is you know if we don't prosecute him there's this sort of like unfairness to it. I think that's a very good point you made chamath. But I also think that he is going we need to wake people up from this fog they've been in to Friedberg. And I don't, I think we have to free the the, the Republican Party to get back to some more version that is reasonable. Like you are sacks. I would rather see you. The Republican Party has is, is is already rejecting Trump. So just look at what's happened in the last 24 to 48 hours even after this storming of the Capitol, OK? You had Republicans who who were just hours before objecting to the electors. They basically were saying no, I've changed my mind. Who is that? Lindsey Graham? But not Ted Cruz, not that other. Kelly Loffler Kelly Kelly Loffler did. And there were a few other ones who switched sides. You had, you had excellent speeches by Lindsey Graham and then Romney. I agree with that. They spoke very, very eloquently. And just today, Elaine Chao resigned as Secretary of Transportation. I think that's mostly significant. Who's she's David. She's mentioned McConnell's wife. Yeah. Look, I think, I think after Georgia, the Republican Party was already blamed Trump for that. And now after the storming of the capital, they're ready to be done with him. This idea that you need to prosecute Trump to end his somehow end his relations with the Republican Party, I think it will just backfire. I don't think that's what the point is. I think the point is that nobody is above the law. Yeah. And when you when you lead, you know what? Look the the thing with the people that attended this rally is in any other situation. And Jason, you said it earlier, these are our veterans, these are the people that are like working good jobs. They're trying to just keep America going. They've always believed in American exceptionalism. There was nothing wrong with that. It was just perverted by this ******* scumbag. Yep, he is a complete ***** ** ****. ******* scumbag. He's garbage, and I think that's why you have to prosecute him. I think you have to make an example of him. I I know that they with Nixon, they took a different approach, but I just think he's too dangerous to leave unprosecuted because every time he has some bad behavior, whether it was the Ukraine, whether it's, you know, Russia, we can debate what level they wanted to engage with the Russians or. You know, in the case of this riotous behavior, you know, I think he's not gonna stop. That's the thing that I fear is I don't think he's gonna stop it. Rather, I would rather take every single person arrested and give them zero days in jail and add it all up and give it to Trump. I wouldn't I mean I I agree with you to to some degree that they were victims of this two-month propaganda campaign to convince the right that this election was stolen. I think a lot of those people who are storming the capital they were there not to steal an election because they were thought they were there to prevent the ceiling of an election. And so yes they they have been duped by a lot of people including you know leading with with Trump but including a lot of other people who should have known better but. But that being said, they did make the decision to hop the barricade, smash the windows, go into the capital some personal responsibility. Absolutely. Yeah, we we can't we. Tragedy of this woman, like, but let's talk about this woman for a second. And I think it's important to look at this specific case. This is a person who's a veteran. And she was inside the halls already and was trying to breach another area. And she was just shot dead by Secret Service. They might have been protecting the VP. They might have been protecting Nancy Pelosi or Mitch McConnell, who knows? But they shot her dead. Yeah, I saw it on video. I mean, it's on video. It's unbelievable. And it, I mean, coming from a law enforcement family, I can tell you that's a clean shooting. If she was breaching. And they told her, do not come in here. We're going to shoot you. And they were protected. The Secret Service is protecting. An asset. They're allowed to shoot you like you can't jump that. And she's a military vet. She's from the Air Force. I mean, what is in her mind? How wound up was she by Trump and by this propaganda that when they told her do not breach the second door inside? By the way, you just said the keyword. You cannot be spun up in all of this by Giuliani. He's a ******* moron. You know, he can barely like, not what? His pants, you know? You're not going to get spun up by Sidney Powell, the only person that can really catalyze. This is the person that has the respect that comes with sitting in the seat that's called the Presidency of the United States. And she's the only one. He's the only one. We all know this because if Giuliani was running this rally and said, let's go storm the Capitol, nobody would have done it. We all know this. Look. Yeah. What do you think about this woman, David? Like, think about the psychology of this person for a second. The humanity of it. You know, I'll say something, I think. Man, politics is isn't the problem. It's kind of the manifestation of the problem. If you think about how crazy it is that I posted a tweet about this the other day, I've been thinking about it a lot. I think it's so crazy that you can show people a TV ad or a or a Facebook ad and get them to change their mind on what to vote like. People are kind of showing stuff and and the bigger problem is this kind of reductionism that's that's kind of enveloped all of this. You know, if you if you go back 100 years, I guarantee you people were having deeper and more civil conversations about differences of opinion and ways to govern and and and laws to govern us. And I think, like, you know, it's so easy to put a 32nd kind of reductionist ad in front of someone incite their kind of amygdala. To to to respond and change their mind about something or push them in some direction. And I think that's the bigger issue with like what's been going on is people are kind of being pushed all the way to one side or pushed all the way to the other side. Through this you know this this very kind of simple process. There is no dialogue to decide what candidate to vote for, dialogue to decide what path to take it. It's it's all Indians like lock his *** up you know kill them like everything is become extremely binary and the grayscale is really the reality. And unfortunately we've kind of really hurt ourselves in this tribalism over Objectivism kind of approach to how we talk as a society and how we debate. And as a result people are pushed over the edge. And I think this is a manifestation of that broader problem, which I think is probably linked to the Internet and short attention spans. Well, this is what's going on also. Why? I think the GOP has just been completely. You know, but it's not just the GOP dominated now that what I'm saying they're all they they we think is a good segue into Georgia. But you could say the same about AOC and you could say that AOC is doing the same to the Democratic Party and they're they're you know equally frustrated with this extremist point of view or Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders and they're you know none of them got the nomination though right and none of them got they were but they they could have and they were close and it was like hey look give everyone $1,000,000, OK great. Like and tax the rich 90%. Great. Like it's easy to say and and my point is. By the way, I think the root of a lot of this is, is people are programmed to be unhappy, right? That that's how you instigate people to take action. The the bottom 10% of Americans make more money and have a better position in life than the top 10% of Kenyans. And it's an incredible statistic if you think about it. Go to or and you can actually play around and see what different people live like around the world. Yet in the US, we are told at every strata, whether you're wealthy or or not wealthy relative to others in the United States, that you should be better off. And it is, you know, happiness is the difference between expectation and outcome. And everyone's been set an expectation beyond what they currently have and as a result, through programmatic work that is done on people in the United States. That we are being told you should be unhappy. Ohh, and by the way, here's the short term solution to resolve it and it's driving an incredible amount of of behavioral shift and it really threatens democracy as we saw this week. And you guys will remember my, my, my big loser for the political loser for 2020 was the American Democratic Constitution. And I think we saw that this week and I agree on the on the heels of that. Can I ask you guys what you think of this? Basically, Pelosi has told Pence, you have to invoke the 25th amendment or they're going to take up impeachment. What do you guys think about that? I think it's the right thing to do. How do you do? I think they have to be there has to be a backstop against you. Is it possible Trump can't run? Could do something crazy? You could. So here's the thing, I and I I I tweeted at prepar about this. If you are impeached successfully you can't run again. So I think that this is a way to put the nail in the coffin of Trump even having the ability to run in 2024, which I think is why the Democrats are on the right side of history on this one. That's my personal maybe they signed a non prosecution agreement with him if he resigns and that that's kind of the final. You know, I mean what I would like to see. But Jason, why can't you trust voters to make the right decision? IN2024I? Umm. Do a trust voters. It's not about trusting the voters. It's more about, do I think they should be ramifications for somebody's behavior? That's that's my fear is that if he keeps getting away with stuff, he could do something even more violent or dangerous. As Chamant said earlier, it's a miracle that 100 people weren't shot dead and this wasn't a firefight. I mean, if somebody takes out a gun at any moment during that and people start shooting, we could have hundreds of people, Americans dead, not just the four who died. And I think Trump is absolutely capable. Of doing something in the last 14 days. If he did this 15 days out, why wouldn't he do something else seven days out or three days out? He's a maniac. I mean, this is insane, deranged criminal. Lunatic behavior. It's completely possible that he could do something more dangerous in the last 14 days. I know that that sounds crazy, but look at what we saw yesterday. I think I I think there is like a white knuckle element to the next two weeks. I think we're all kind of white knuckling it to, you know, to see what's going to happen. We have 300 hours to go till Biden is sworn in. And I've got to admit, like I I'm, I'm counting down the hours, you know, it's too insane. Nobody wants that. Everybody everybody's feeling, everybody's feeling that. That being said, I I just think that I'm more on on free freeberg's point of view on this that we have this insane level of partisan warfare in the US it's gone to like a whole nother level and I just and and and Trump has definitely made it worse. And the storming of the capital is the you know is the zenith of it is the apex. But look the other side's been doing it too, and the question is just how we deescalate this insane partisan right in the deescalation chamath isn't Biden. Like being elected part aside, I think it is. Yeah, I think it is. It's like we we picked the most boring candidate who has the most milk toast. Middle of the road approach. Who? Who? Lindsey Graham likes and who traveled the world with, I mean, Lady G loves him. Well, to to the extent that Biden has a mandate, this is it. I mean and he talked about it in his victory speech that night, which was which was was quite good. It's about bringing people together now. Look, I mean the the issue one of the issues is you can't ignore the fact that Democrats for the last four years have waged this insane partisan war against Trump. I mean, let's not even go into the merits, but you had this two year. Mueller Witch Hunt, you then had this impeachment you know Crusade which look, if there was a lot of validity to the impeachment, why wasn't it used as a campaign issue last year? I just think everybody knows. Let me ask you a question. Everybody knows that was hyper partisan and and my point is that, yeah look, I mean I think it's a good thing if Biden can deescalate things that that is, that is I think why he won the election as he was seen as more of a sane alternative. Let me ask you a question, sacks. Do you think it would have been, do you think if Trump had been impeached for the Ukraine's interference and Pence had taken over, we would not have seen what we were seeing yesterday and the country would have been further along to healing? So you know, no, I mean Pence would not have invited or asked all of his supporters to come to the capital to oppose the counting the, the, the the counting of the electors. I look, that was a unique Trump thing for you know he could not accept the loss and had to keep pushing and pushing and pushing on this idea that he that the election was stolen. So it would have been a good idea to impeach. No. No, it wouldn't. No, it wouldn't. Because if you had, if you had impeached Trump and well, first of all, he was impeached. OK, but. If you had voted to move from Tim, if you had removed him from office, the Senate had voted to convict over a phone call. OK? And look, I'm not defending the phone call. I'm not saying the phone call was perfect, OK? I know Trump says it was perfect. It was not a perfect phone call. But you can't remove a sitting president for that. OK, look, it was unseemly or whatever. I think we all know what he was trying to do in that phone call. But you can't remove a sitting president over that. That was hyper partisan. And so, no, the country would be much further apart today if you had done that. And and so the question now is, well, how do you bring it back together? And I think I understand where, where, where tumath is coming from. I think that Trump deserves morally culpably. I think he he is computation some repudiation but but I don't believe in locking him up or or prosecuting him. That's only gonna make things much more crime. For this crime, we we don't even know what else is out there. I mean, I have. Yeah, it's other issues out there. Let's talk about Georgia. Let's let. I think we've nailed the Trump. I mean, less anybody really feels like continuing to talk about the socialist? Stacey Abrams is a genius. I mean, my gosh, she should be in charge of everything. Yeah. Can we get her on the vaccine rollout? Well, it's incredible. It's incredible. Stacey Abrams did an incredible job on the Democrat side mobilizing turn out. But the reason why the Republicans lost Georgia is frankly Trump. I mean Trump costs them Georgia. Two months ago Purdue beat Ossoff in that election. He won, he won, he won and and and he's beating him before. I think he is. I mean he's not the most wonderful candidate, but I think he is a better candidate and he lost because of these antics over the last two months. Culminating in that insane phone call that Trump had with the Georgia Secretary of State. Talked about Raffensberger, right? That sax, can't you just find me 11,000 votes? Look, I I just think, you know, I I don't think it's more prosecutable sending people to the capital or asking them and begging them to find him. 11,000 votes. Which one is more prosecutable to you, sack, since you're gonna be framing less? Let's wait, Jason. Hold on. Let let's, let's move on. Let's move away from the whole Trump goes to jail for a second. I just want to I I think it's important to talk about Georgia because I think, David, you're going to make a point. Yeah, exactly. I mean, look, I think we're getting hung up too much on the legalities. And let's talk about what's right and wrong, you know, which we is what we can agree on and let, you know, lawyers and prosecutors figure out the legalities. Ramesh Paneru from National View had a great quote about Georgia. He said that Purdue and Loffler could survive any two of these three being unimpressive candidates, Georgia shifting purple and Trump being a maniac. And unfortunately you had three out of three and that's why they lost. If it was a great is a great quote. You know, you had the Raffles burger call, you know, can't you just find the 11,000 votes the day before the election or two days before the election? I mean that had to push swing voters and undecideds. To the Democrats. And the other thing is that Purdue and Loffler weren't able to make the best argument that they had, which is if you vote for us, you end up with split you you you prevent the Democrats from having all the power in Washington. So unless you want to give all the power in Washington to a single party, you need to vote for us. That was the best argument for voting for them, because there's a lot of people in this country who believe in splitting their ticket because they don't trust either party, which is kind of where I'm at. But they were unable to make that argument effectively because Trump was still hanging on to the idea that he was gonna be president. No, I think, David, I honestly, I think this comes down to the intelligence of the candidates. Kelly Lofter is a moron. She's an idiot. David Perdue is a good old boy. He's an idiot. They're just stupid. This actually speaks to a bigger problem, which is the Republicans could do so much better if they could actually find younger, more vibrant, intelligent people, and instead they find these ******* morons. I don't know where they find them, but, you know, they pulled. A loffler autism like backstage, Dallas beauty pageant and just kind of like fluffed her up and tried to get her to run. She's a moron Loffler Loffler was a mistake. Loffler was a mistake ******* idiot. Did you read the story about her with the WNBA but I mean? George I mean? It's unbelievable. They basic Georgia. Georgia is full of so many incredible politicians and they found that idiot that that that was a huge mistake if they just voted or yeah. I mean, the governor made a huge mistake. They put they appointed her to the last 2 months I. I I agree that she's a particularly weak candidate, but the Republicans only needed one of these two elections, and Purdue had beaten also off before. I agree with you. He's not necessarily the greatest candidate of all time, but he has proved better than Ossoff in the past, including November. And the reason why he lost two months later is because what's transpired in the last two months, Biden has acted presidential and Trump has done what he's done. And that that made all the difference. And and that, by the way, is why you're seeing the Republicans breaking from Trump. They were already on their way to breaking. With them and then you had this David story, the capital. What are the implications for Josh Hawley and Ted Cruz? I I think, I think this was a blow to them because I think that what they were doing in terms of. Opposing the the, the electors, everybody knew it was sort of cynical and theatre. It was theater. It was performative. Theater was designed to Curry favor with Trump so that he might endorse them in 2024 for the nomination. And and it was, it was, it was opportunistic. And the problem is it backfired horribly. And you know, people now see it for what it was. And so, yeah, I think it's going to ultimately they tried to do something optimistic that they thought would help them politically. I think it's going to hurt them. But wait, I have to ask you guys, do you guys know the back story of Loffler and the Atlantic dream? The WNBA team. It's too it's honestly. Jason. I'm gonna get so angry because she is just a complete ***** ** ****. Please don't lie. I'm. You can bring it up. I I think she's just exactly freeburger aware of this, but I think she's a complete ***** ** ****. She basically tell the story. It's it's basically she was anti BLM and she was writing letters to the NBA WNBA to not. Allow the players to to be vocal about Black Lives Matter with the you know, after the killing of the murder of George Floyd. And So what the team did, if you look at that story, is they backed Warnock, they got on the call with him, they refused to say her name and they rallied the support of Warnock, who ultimately beat her and they refused to say her name. I just have her again. If you the players on her own team coverage, if you want to see courage, the women that play in the WNBA are some of the most incredible people in the world. These are these are women that have basically stopped their athletic careers. Opt fame, you know, stopped all of the attention in some cases. Stopped fortunes to work on behalf of criminal justice reform, to basically overturn, you know, unjust convictions. These women are incredible and meant to be suppressed, to be able to say what was on their mind. Kelly Loffler is a ***** ** ****. And they basically wore these vote Warnock T-shirts every day at every game. I mean, imagine. And and now they're I think gonna be 4 vote of those women. Yeah, probably of them. Sue Bird, I think is the was the leader of the whole movement of water. Yeah. Bravo to her. All right, moving on from politics, I think we have to talk freeberg about the deployment of the vaccine. I I did a quick poll on Twitter and. Twitter and the American people have asked that freedberg the queen of Kinwat be responsible for the. Vaccine distribution going forward? Really? I'm in. Let's do it. I would. What is your, you would get that vaccine into everyone's arms in 75 days. I mean it would you would be, would be such a stone cold lock. Yeah, that would be amazing. Yeah, I don't know how that free bird, what would you do differently do that and maybe you could describe, you know, we were supposed to be at a million a day, we're at 3:50 trending towards 400. We did 1.5 million in 72 hours according to Fauci, at one point right after the new Year. So we're kind of like halfway where we need to be. What would you do differently because the rollout seems we we had more than 50% are on the shelves still it it should arms it. It is a wartime scenario when war is happening. You don't go home at 5:00 PM and wake up at 9:00 AM and clock out for an hour for lunch and you know you don't ohh well don't run too fast you know you might trip you don't do any of that we've created incredible disincentives in the system by in fact Cuomo put out $1,000,000 fine if. If you get your vaccine out of line, I mean, think about the disincentive that creates. Now people are more scared about giving the vaccine to the wrong person than they are incentivized to give the vaccine to the right person. And the reality is, this is a group game. This isn't an individual game. It's not about who gets vaccinated first and you'll live and you'll die. We all need to get vaccinated as a group so that we all have immunity, so that this virus stops spreading. It doesn't matter if you're individually vaccinated. It matters if we're all vaccinated because it's the only way we're all gonna get out of the economic slump that is truly damaging this country right now. And so the first step is create a military style operation, figure out how many feet on the ground. You know it's all a rate based system, right? How many are you running per day and then how do you achieve that objective? And over time you have your target rate per day, you would scale it up over 75 days or whatever your your rollout timeframe needs to be and you would say this is how we're going to get there. We need this number of people giving shots this many minutes apart. And then you go figure out where you gonna give the shots and who's gonna give him, get the vaccines to where they need to get to take over. All the gymnasiums and all the stadiums and all the open sports facilities around the country. People can drive up, stand in line, get a frigging shot. And 65 year olds get priority for the 1st 30 days. And then after 30 days, you're 65 and over. Crowd loses their priority and it's open season for who wants to get a shot? You stand in line, you get a shot, walk in, you got 3.8 million nurses in the United States. You go contract. 500,000 of them. You give them a huge friggin one time bonus to come and run this program. You run 24 hour shifts in the gymnasiums around the country. People come in, they get shots, they get out, takes 3 minutes. If you're feeling weird, if you have risk of allergies, you go sit in the other room. You wait for two hours and there's a bunch of roaming nurses keep an eye on you and you get this thing done. That's it. This is not that complicated and we can leverage the National Guard to create the infrastructure and support these lines and get these things done. We can go recruit. There are plenty of nurses associations you can go. People can work overnight shifts and get paid. Triple overtime to get extra bonuses for doing this is a great way to kind of create an economic stimulus around this. We can get this entire country vaccinated in 90 days. And the way that Israel's doing it is a great model. You know, when they run out, describe that. So at the end of the day, if you know when you open, when you take these things out of deep freeze, you're at risk of them spoiling at that point because the M RNA is very, you know, can break, and so it needs to be really cold. And then you got to give the vaccine very quickly. Otherwise the MRA can degrade and it's not effective and you have to defrost it in order to give it. Yes. Defrost it. Then it's sitting there now. You gotta give it within a couple hours. And if you got extra doses. Sitting people complicated. What they're doing in Israel is they're looking outside. They grab the pizza guy that's on the bicycle, on the bicycle, cruising by. They're like, do you wanna shot? Come on in. They give him a shot, they grab the next guy. You do not need to track everyone that gets his shot. You do not need everyone to show their ID to get a shot. You do not need to XYZ. All the disincentives that create friction in the system of rolling out the vaccine need to be completely eliminated. There's no qualifying criteria except maybe being 65 and over for the 1st 30 days. And we've prioritized politics over health and safety. We have made it the case that the teachers should get the the shot first because the teachers unions created an uproar in California. And so they're gonna go to work unless they. So now the teachers are gonna get it and the essential workers are gonna get it, which if people that are working in stores and warehouses and other stuff. And meanwhile the people that can actually die from this 15% likelihood of death if you're over 85 are not getting it because they're not technically an essential worker. So the prioritization where we've tried to create these artificial, politically motivated systems for defining who gets the vaccine and who doesn't. It's absolutely killing us and literally killing us. 4000 people died yesterday in the United States and so the system is ****** **. The incentives we've and don't bleep that out because that's exactly what it is. The the disincentives we've created are destroying the rollout. The the governor is getting involved in creating models of prioritization that are politically motivated, are killing us. And and we should centrally plan this thing, war production act, make a **** ton of this stuff, grab it all, get 100 million doses distributed into gymnasiums around the country. Get the nurses in there. Get the National Guard or should have been federal. I mean that's the key. They should have 24 effort. Central planning is sometimes needed to get **** done. We did it with the war production Board during World War Two. We did it with the Manhattan Project. We there have been countless examples where we've had to centralized planning for a massive short term event and this is one of those events. And this needs to be prioritized and organized centrally and it needs to have the right minded people on this, not kind of people that are, you know, political operatives and not people that are working 9:00 to 5:00. Well, the good news is this is a war and we need to go win the ******* war. I mean the good news is Trump, Trump has time, he's, he's at Camp David this weekend, so I think he can put some attention to it. Sax, can I ask a question? Freeberg. Yeah. So you know, what do you think about just using markets to distribute the vaccine? It's a great idea. I think, you know, you have to get the incentives such that time based systems are the incentive, right. Because the objective here is to get as many people vaccinated as quickly as possible. So take that being your objective and then figure out, look you guys are going to get $1000 per person vaccinated in the 1st 15 days and then you're gonna get $500.00 and then, you know, whatever. The transition is and then anyone can sign up to buy doses at A at a cost. So they they they have skin in the game. Right. That's an alternative. So, like Walgreens and CVS buy 50 million doses, and then they're incentivized to get them rolled out as quickly as possible. Let them do the work. Sure. And frankly, if a few people have anaphylactic reactions across the country, that's just the reality. In war, you have some casualties. This can't be perfect. It has to be good enough to win the war. And by the way, when when somebody goes into anaphylactic shock, just to clarify that all you have to. Yeah, you got an epic shot. It's not fatal if you have an EpiPen, that's right, and so so you know when you get a. When you get a, you know, a vaccine, if you get one of these vaccines a 40% to 60% of people are gonna have some sort of reaction. You can have a fever because these are, these produce a ton of proteins in your body relative to what you would normally you know, kind of experience with it. With a dead vaccine, there's a lot of vaccines in your there's a lot of protein in your body. Your body reacts to get rid of that protein. You produce all these antibodies very quickly. So you end up having a fever, you end up having some, some allergic response or headaches or flushing or whatever. So everyone's going to have a lot of people are going to have some sort of thing, so. One of the concerns is they want to have nurses available and they want to have this feel like a controlled medical environment. But again, the reality is we have to sack it up. We have to accept the fact that people are going to be uncomfortable. It is not going to be an easy, simple vaccine like you get the flu vaccine at Walgreens going to be a little bit uncomfortable. You may not have five or six nurses surrounding you and getting all the TLC that Americans have become used to getting every time we, you know, brush our freaking teeth and and we're going to have some people go into anaphylactic shock and they're going to get EpiPen shots and and, you know, and we shouldn't be charging $1500 for EpiPen. This is another you know important point, but I think the market based model could work as well. So as Israel done this right, I mean Israel, they they moved the old people to the front of the line, but anybody can get in line if they've got extra doses that day. They just keep sticking people, they keep jabbing people until they run out all day long till they run out. That's right. And so they're probably 20% of the population by now. Yeah, I so I, I'm sure we all agree with everything you're saying. It speaks to an enormous amount of political incompetence. I mean, it's really, really just unbelievable why we just don't have smarter people in charge of these things. But sex, I just want to ask you because, you know, there is the conservative argument on this, which is, you know, states, the federal government shouldn't be doing everything. And states need to kind of manage their their populace and manage, you know what, what goes on locally, you know, what is the conservative? I'm not asking you this and I'm not attacking you. I'm just asking like. What is the conservative argument for not doing central planning and Central organization around vaccine distribution and delegating it to States and you know are are there you know do you think that there's a case against you know for that that that's pretty strong in within the Republican Party and within kind of conservative. I I think if there's a conservative point of view on this, it would just be that let let markets distribute the vaccine, they'll do a much better job. I don't, you know, I think whether it's federal or state, the question is who's more incompetent than I'm not really. Sure. I mean, I I think the problem right now is that when you make vaccine distribution fundamentally political, then the debate becomes about exactly who's what is your position going to be exactly in line as opposed to just running the most number of people through the process as quickly as possible. We're getting ourselves so twisted up in knots over making sure that the exact right person is in line that we're having, you know, vaccine go to waste. You know, just to put that in context 21. Million plus doses have been distributed in the United States. 5.9 have made their way into people's arms. In other words, there are 15 millions. Over 75% of doses have not gone in people's arms. And in California, we have distributed 5.85% of the populations vaccines, but we've only put 1.3 in people's arms. So we are literally a 4X where we should be. We're at 25% of where we should be. It is absolutely. Unbelievable that this is happening and means the government if the government if the government stopped trying to do anything except you know look it, it did operation warp speed that actually did help get vaccines done faster. But if you just that was just money to your point sacks. All they did was create a market where they basically pre bought all the vaccines whether or not they were going to work and then funded the market to go and produce them early. That's all that it was. So to your point that operation warp speed for everyone thinking it's a massive centrally controlled effort, it was a market based incentives they put. What's at the Manhattan Project is what you're saying. They they put up a couple of billion. Yeah. Check. They, they put up a couple billion dollars and said to all these pharma companies, go produce the vaccine and if it works, we'll buy them. If it doesn't work, throw them away. But let's get production going. And that was it. Can I can I use this as a segue? Like, I mean what we're seeing is sort of we have a bunch of elected officials, we give them, you know, an enormous amount of responsibility. They also get this implied power. And then you just, you see sometimes. And these acute moments, they're totally derelict. Then I just want to move off of vaccines for a second. Then you get an elected official who is not acutely incompetent, but it seems broadly, grossly and consistently incompetent. And I want to talk about Chesa Boudin and I I want to use Sax's article, which, to be very honest, David was probably one of the most incredibly well written things. Well done you have ever created. I don't know, Jason, do we have? Show notes. Can we put it in? We'll put in the show notes. Yeah, we'll put a link in the show notes. It is so ******* good what you wrote if everybody folks who are listening have a chance to read David's. Killer DNA. The killer DNA. But it basically, you know, starts with the profile of this young woman, seemed like an incredible woman that was killed by this drunk driver. But anyways, David, do you want to talk about it? And yeah, I mean, so for the last with that's it. For the last couple of months, I've been following the San Francisco, a couple of San Francisco Police Department accounts on Twitter and I was noticing these extraordinary tweets, which are getting retweeted a lot about how they kept arresting and then having to let go of all, all these criminals who are committing. Hilarious. And other crimes and you could see the frustration of the Police Department boiling off these tweets and, you know, basically there are sub tweeting this new District Attorney that we've had chaser Boudin, who is elected is, he's been in office about a year. He's elected at the end of 2019. And so I started doing a little bit of research and then we had this horrible New Year's Eve killing of this, you know, wonderful young woman, Hannah Abe, who came to America from Japan for college and stayed here. For work, she was just 27 years old. She gets killed by by by a a criminal, someone who was released who was paroled by Chase Abutin. Back in April, he had been in jail for armed robbery. Chase released him as part of a plea bargain, and then he was arrested five more times for stealing cars and other crimes, most recently two weeks ago. And the DA refused to press charges. And that that's the reason he was out on New Year's Eve. He stole a car. And then there was this hit and run where he killed Hannah and another woman. And so, you know, I had already been noticing this issue. And so I started doing some, some research, and I have a research assistant helping me with this. It's the only way I could put something like this together. And we went pretty deep and we realized that the death of of Hannah wasn't just an accident or an act of negligence. By this DA, it was part of an overall philosophy of decarceration that he has, but he has. His background is very interesting. He was a child of parents who were in the Weather Underground, who, when he was just a baby, committed armed robbery and were part of the murder, which was David. David, say the words. They were domestic terrorists. Yeah, they were. They were. That's right. They were domestic terrorists. They participated in an armed robbery against the Brinks truck, which were domestic terrorists that were competent when compared to what? So yesterday in the capital, like, these are highly capable domestic terrorists. To be clear, I don't know. I don't know how capable they were. They're they're robbery results in the death of two police officers and a Brinks guard, and they were put in prison. His mother spent 20 years in prison. She's now released her. His father is still in prison for almost 4040 years, and he's described in interviews how his earliest memories are visiting his parents in prison and how this shaped his entire political outlook. And he became a public defender, which I think was a pretty good place for him. I think if I were an indigent, you know, criminal defendant, I would want someone like Jason buddy on my side. And but the problem is he ran for District Attorney and he simply doesn't believe in prosecuting huge numbers of crimes, you know, certainly property crimes, burglary, shoplifting, vandalism. And those crimes have absolutely spiked in the city, you know, 45% increase. In burglaries in one year, 35% increase in stolen cars, 30% increase in homicides. Crimes are through the roof because he simply doesn't believe in putting people in jail. Well, you know, I just say this sorry. Let me just point out there's a there's a little bit of a history to to this notion that DA's should change the criminal justice system. There's a Ted talk by a guy named Adam Foss. I don't know if you've seen it or if any of you guys have watched it. I was at the Ted Conference the year that he spoke. But this guy basically thought, you know, he made the case that it is the role and the opportunity for the District Attorney, for the prosecutor to change the criminal justice system from the prosecutorial side that you can. You know kind of demotivate jail and and and other kind of you know mechanisms of punishment and and push for a for a a rehabilitation program as an alternative and that the district attorneys can take this this role on of changing the criminal justice system and it created a little bit of a mini movement and there was a lot of attention and follow up after he gave his Ted talk. And I think San Francisco in in large part picked up on the the momentum coming out of this and other similar sort of stories about the DA can really change the criminal justice system. And Chesapeake Dean really kind of capitalized on it in principle. A lot of people are motivated from a good place when they elected him, which is, it is unfortunate. A lot of people get trapped in a life of crime. And the fact that they're in and out of prison is a result of the fact that they're put into the criminal justice system. And the 1st place and parole is really harsh on people and and all these other reasons why people's lives are ruined for simple mistakes. And if they get an opportunity in life, they can fix themselves and they can come out in a better place. So there is a bit of an origin story. It's not just like San Francisco. But let's get an anarchist to Brda and destroy the world and and kill us all like I I think it came from a good and true place where this all kind of originated. But obviously the experiment has gone severely Orion San Francisco and his particular methods and and his particular actions have certainly caused far more harm than anyone has seen any good. That's actually pointed out they've started a recall effort for him too. Well, I think that I think the danger is not that you have an enlightened political philosophy. I think that's actually quite great, then that we can. Experiment. I think the danger is both on the left and on the right, where people cathartically deal with childhood trauma through their job. And, you know, I don't know what Chester Boudin has gone through and I feel very bad that he had an incredibly hard life. Or complicated. Or maybe not. I don't even know. But I wouldn't want to know that he's trying to deal with his own experiences through his job, because that's not his job. Meaning, you know, you don't want an activist DA. I think you want a DA that's enforcing the laws. And what you do want is you want to elect politicians who change the laws to reflect our values. Yeah, that would be a a better through line I think. And and really I mean if you look at what's happening in San Francisco, I think we've conflated. Income inequality, which people in San Francisco are very tuned into with essentially junkies, people who are addicted to incredibly ******** drugs that are very hard to get off of. And we've had more deaths from overdoses of fentanyl than we've had from COVID by a magnitude of four or five. I mean, it is bedlam on the streets of San Francisco and if you don't enforce. A basic rule of law, what happens is the price of drugs gets cheaper, more available, more people try them, more people get addicted. And then more people come from other places because they know you have the lowest price on drugs. And the price of drugs is inversely correlated with prosecution of drug crimes, so on prosecution of crime. So This is why San Francisco is spiraling. And most drugs are purchased from criminal funds. So, you know, criminal activity goes up to fund the drug purchasing so that that that's the vicious cycle that that that's driving San Francisco. And there there is a recall going on and then in related news. Gavin Newsom is now up to 1,000,000 signatures in his recall, which I think is 2/3 of the way there. Yeah, they have until mid or late February they're gonna get the votes. And I think, I think the question, you know, Friedberg and I talked about this just on a phone call he and I caught up a couple days ago. I think it is time guys for us to find an incredibly centrist, thoughtful candidate and put them into the recall race against Newsom Freeberg. Have the best idea, which was Kim Kardashian, which I think is incredible because she is very smart, she's very likable, she's got enormous distribution. She's like, she's about to become a lawyer. You know, that'll be the amazing, the best platform for Kardashian to run for president. Look, it's pretty clear, you know, recognition, influence, fame is what gets people elected. You know, not the best policy and not the greatest experience from Jesse Ventura to Arnold Schwarzenegger to Donald Trump. Ronald either. Ronald Reagan. I mean, these are. Celebrities who I would argue in the case of Jesse Ventura, Arnold Schwarzenegger, maybe even Donald Trump as well. Their celebrity was kind of, you know, it had hit it's it's it's media driven apex and and this was a second act and you know perhaps someone like that is a great fit here. Kim Kardashian really fits the bill. But. You know, I that's just a shot in the dark. But I do think someone like that needs to go up because if you put politician up again, it's another one of these eye rolling events. And for, you know, for the the populace to kind of really find appeal, it has to be a recognized person, you know, broadly recognized and liked person. Yeah, I wanna add, Jason, it could be you. Governor, governor. Jason, I'm not ready to run for political office. I'm 50 and when I'm 60, I would consider it, actually, but not right now. I wanna work at a hop to. I think we all gotta hop. But I was gonna say one thing, which is the beginning of today's podcast was probably the punchiest it's ever been. And I think it just speaks to the fact that there was so there, the bar was so high for Trump to have done something that would have actually gotten us to actually argue and interrupt each other, you know, because we've been so incredibly, like, loving and protective of each other for four years on this topic, but it literally took an armed insurrection. That's the fireplace. He's the besties. Well, I mean, I think it's good for people to see sacks maybe an eye or chamath and sacks or whoever disagree on some of these cases or or freeberg, you know, doesn't believe in prosecuting Trump. But I think we actually had a split ticket there where sacks and freeberg felt like we shouldn't prosecute Trump, and Chamath and I were in the prosecute Trump one. But I think we're all struggling with these issues. All Americans are struggling with these issues of how do you deal with a Black Swan event. I think that's what's so unique about Trump. Is and I think David you could speak to this is I don't think the system was designed for his level of crazy right. Like our system is based on norms and traditions and trust just like venture investing is and we see this in venture investing. Some founder goes off the you know jumps the fence and all of a sudden you know yeah I mean will we still. I would say our system performed pretty well in terms of being stress tested and well look we still got two more weeks. You know I think we're all kind of, we're all kind of white knuckling it right now. Yeah like the plate. Yeah. Hoping nothing else happens. But but look if if Trump's goal was a coup, you know I think it's a strong word but if it like it totally failed. I mean he didn't come close to to succeeding in a coup. The opposite in fact the the opposite. He's he again we talked about how I think his he destroyed his popularity over the last two months. He impacted his earnings by -. 2 billion dollars. So but, but but but, you know, but but to this point about us agreeing or disagreeing, you know, I saw a whole bunch of fans of the pod, like at mentioning me, saying, I wonder what Sachs is going to say about this. I don't know what. Like, yeah. And I'm kind of like, like, what do they think about to say? Like they think I'm going to be supportive of this. I mean, you know, like I think somehow you, Jason, you've programmed the viewers that I like. I'm, I'm somehow like that, that the Trump, the Trump guy, you know, because you're always trolling me as the Trump supporter. I mean, I I would believe that Russia was a hoax and that no one would have been treated the same climbing up those steps. We all know that's not true. Some of these are self-inflicted wounds of your own. Good. Take some ownership there. Boys. Boys. Yeah, I gotta hop. OK. I love you very much. Happy New year. Happy New Year about you. I will say one thing before we meet. Next time I guarantee you some highly unexpected and highly impactful thing will occur. Please. No. Can we get back to talking about spacks or the bachelor or something? We didn't even, we didn't even talk about my SPAC today. Oh yeah, yeah. Anyway, give it a plug. Go ahead, spark plug. No, I mean just explain to people what he doesn't need. A plug it double. Today it's insane. Alright, we'll explain what IPO EI PE is merging with Sofi. It's an incredible company led by an incredible CEO, Anthony Noto. You can read a little one pager on my website. But anyways, guys, more importantly, to all the listeners out there, happy New Year. To all of you guys. Let's make 2021 ********. Yep. I love you guys. I miss you. Miss you guys. Play poker soon. Oh, look, there's somebody interrupted. I gotta go. We'll see you all. Take us out, young Spielberg. Take us out. Gun Spielberg. When you'll be. Where you'll be. Let your winners ride Rain Man. David Sasha. We open sources to the fans and they've just gone crazy with it. Why? Besties are. My dog's driveway. Man. We should all just get a room and just have one big huge **** because they're always useless. It's like this, like sexual tension that they just need to release them out there. Beep. Beep. See what we need to get merchants? I'm going.