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#AIS: Pear VC’s Mar Hershenson on making successful founders

#AIS: Pear VC’s Mar Hershenson on making successful founders

Mon, 30 May 2022 22:47

This talk was recorded LIVE at the All-In Summit in Miami and included slides. To watch on YouTube, check out our All-In Summit playlist:

0:00 Pear VC Founding Managing Partner Mar Hershenson gives a talk on making successful entrepreneurs: can great founders be created, or is it something they are born with?

17:04 Bestie Q&A with Mar: Catalyzing great founders, why the PayPal Mafia created more unicorns than early Google employees, creating more opportunity for underrepresented founders, inducing failure & more

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Next up. Is Mara Hershenson who's going to talk about entrepreneurship? Come on out, Mar. Mar is going to talk about creating successful Founders week off the mark. Thank you. Like your winners? Rain Man, David Saxons. We open sources. While I have a pretty positive and optimistic talk, you know, the food may be a little bearish in general. I know he's smart. I'm one of the founders of pair VC and I am very fortunate. I actually work with many startups. I've worked for the last decade with 100 plus startups. They're worth over $100 billion and they all have one thing in common. When I invest, there's actually nothing. I'm the first check. There is no product, there's no customers, there's just the founders. So it is no surprise that I often wonder, are these founders born? Are my cards dealt as soon as I invest in one of those founders? Or is there anything I can do to change them? That's a big question. And I think many of you would say founders are born. Take, for example, Palmer Luckey. He's talking tomorrow. He was a prodigy. He created the first prototype of the Oculus Rift at 17, and he sold the company to Facebook at 22. Clearly there's something special about him. For Melanie Perkins, she started her first her first business at 14, then at 19 went on to build the largest yearbook business in Australia, and now she runs one of the most successful startups. And then Elon Musk, I don't think I need to say anything. He's definitely someone special, something in his DNA, right? So you wouldn't be surprised. Many people ask me what makes a good founder, and there's a bunch of characteristics. You can Google it. People come up with a bunch of things like risk taking, resilience, ambition, etcetera. And in fact, there's some research by academia that shows that people have some innate properties. So. Researchers at Northeastern surveyed 100 hundreds of entrepreneurs, and they counted that 42% of them had started a business as a kid. So actually, that's a good hint for anybody making Angel investments. Maybe it's a question you can ask. Now, there's also data that shows that founders can be made. And while there are 37% of founders, the repeat founders and companies today. 59% repeat founders are in the top unicorns, so that means at least you learned something from your first experience. So it would be reasonable to believe that there is some relationship about, you know, what's your chances of being successful to how you're born. However, I do believe there is some form, something you can do right. There's some energy or some modification that would put you up in that chart. And I think the wider arrow shows that the early parts of that chart, you need a lot of effort. And in fact, this is what I've learned from being an investor roughly. And these are all rough numbers out of the 10 companies we back. Two will fail no matter what we do. That's just almost their destiny. And Jason wrote a blog post in 2015, so that's a long time ago that's titled You Don't have what it takes. I recommend you reading it. And basically the summary is some people just don't have what it takes. It would take so much effort to change them that you might as well give up, right? OK, so now out of 10 companies we back two will succeed no matter what you know us people in venture like to take credit. But truly, the founders. There's a percentage of founders that work independently of us. We backed DoorDash early on. This is a picture of their founders, and I can tell you that Tony Shu, the CEO, would have made it with or without any of his investors. And then there are six companies that I think we can influence. OK, there's something we can do. And the question is perhaps what could you do with that 60%? How can you make them more successful or maybe better if you're at the top 10%, can you accelerate their success? That's a big question and that's what I'm really passionate about. Can you create more successful entrepreneurs? And why is it important? Why should you care? And I think this is the right audience. You don't have to say there are many numbers to show that having more entrepreneurs is good for the economy. You can read them. But just more entrepreneurs means a better world. So the question is, how can you build this entrepreneurs? Is there a magic machine where you can actually take a regular founder or a regular person and outcomes a successful founder? OK, so at the risk of being elitist, I am going to say that one of the closest machines of entrepreneurship, Stanford University. And the numbers actually show it. 10% of unicorns have founders that attended Stanford. And what's even more, in the Allen Summit, I actually went through all the linkins. 40% of the speakers attended Stanford and I think all of us have started something, whether it's 538 like an 8 or venture firm or a company or multiple companies. So there's some special gene, right? And the question is, what does Stanford have that other people don't have, right? It's a higher Ed institution. So for sure you're gonna go and take some classes, gain some skill sets, they put you around people that are like you and they have a brand, so you have access to capital network, etcetera. Having been there though, I will tell you that the skill set doesn't quite matter as much. You can go online and learn some of that, but your peers around you and the next degree around you actually really, really matter. And in a way what these people are doing is transforming your character. And I I can tell you that first hand, just imagine yourself, you may be a founder or an investor, I don't know, you are dropped in a world where you're basically are surrounded by people. There are constantly thinking about starting new companies. This is smart people. The ambition is very, very high. There is innovation almost breathing everywhere, and nerding out is very OK, right? So by doing this throughout years, you actually become one of them. And your peers are really fundamentally changing your character. You become somebody that starts to believe in themselves. You can do it. You learn basically to expand your own ambition, right? You may think 100 million exit is good, but if you go to Stanford, you know that's not good enough, right? So you're setting your own bar. It's a really interesting process. And the question is, are there other machines like this or is Stanford just the only way to do it? Well, the good news is there are other places that do this or other forms of doing this I would say. And one of them perhaps is the PayPal mafia. I think a lot of them running around here in the next couple of days, you all know that they started many successful companies, Tesla, LinkedIn, Palantir firm, YouTube, Yelp, Yammer, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, right? There's something magic about having been there at that point in time. I haven't researched them. And I don't have that much direct contact. But according to Sarah Lacy, who's a journalist and she spent a lot of time researching them, she concluded there was the confidence that they gave when they were there. Now, I'm not sure, but maybe in the Q&A they will reveal the secret. There's other mafias. This one I'm more familiar with. This is rafi. Rafi is a company that was founded in 2015, so not not that long ago in Colombia, and it really transformed the LATAM startup environment. There's been 100 plus companies created by rapper employees. It's crazy. Even almost 50 in Colombia, it almost. It literally changed the country, which is a big deal. I have the privilege of working with a few of these founders. And there's something common in them. They all have this sense of ambition that, you know, super fast growth. It's it's really interesting how they're almost cut from the same cloth. So there are other places. And I think we had the mayor here earlier, I guess he would claim that Miami is on its way to doing some of that. So there are places. So I want to tell you about a couple of experiments that are personal to me that I've been running and hopefully will inspire you. To do something on your own, OK? The first one is I teach a class at Stanford, is a startup simulation class. You have to for one SEC. Forget is at Stanford. I'm actually taking it to other colleges as well. It's not your usual class. OK, so it's actually not your usual class in the sense that I never lecture. There is no lecture for me. There's almost no communication from me. So I did you. In this class for six years, we will take eight teams. These teams have four to five people. And you cannot have a startup when you come to this class. In fact, you must be way earlier. You only have an idea, or you may have a couple of ideas, but if you have something that you've been working on for a while, you're automatically disqualified. OK, so everybody that comes in knows very, very little. And then what the class is designed to do is to just maximize your peers interaction because I believe that that's the way that you can create founders. So how do we do that? First, we're very lucky that I can actually craft the class. So even within Stanford you have to get admitted to this class, there's only 20% acceptance. So I'm able to figure out who do we want to get get in. And then the trick is to force each of the teams. Present to each other every week, and I know it sounds really simple, but just by doing that you're actually motivating and teaching by example and the results are pretty incredible. We actually have one to three companies per year that get started. I think we have two unicorns. There's 600 million capital raised and I think what's really, really interesting is that every year I'll get some pretty nerdy PhD student that goes off to be a successful. Number so it's very impressive. And this one which is really interesting, when I first started, 20% of the kids were females and I said, well we we we, I bet we can shape the class. So throughout the years we've been increasing female enrollment and I can tell you that the results have not changed. We actually now have more female founded companies and this is actually something I care about. So I went thank you. OK, so this takes me to my second experiment, which is actually even more successful and has nothing to do with Stanford. OK, so there's no Stanford involved. OK, so about a year ago, a year and a half ago, I decided, let's get a group of women together artificially, and again, the same idea. These women cannot be founders, OK? These are women that are just high potential. OK. And we actually have 30 to 40 women per cohort. We've done it twice. And the goal is like, hey, can we teach them about being a founder, increase our confidence and ambition, the risk taking, et cetera, et cetera. So how do we do it? Same thing. The first thing is we inspire them with great leaders. So we would bring women that are successful in their own right to tell them that it is possible to be like them, right. I think in many occasions we just lack that role model and the next is we force them to connect with each other. So sometimes it's talk, sometimes is. Funny events or dinners. We even had a manicure pedicure session. The point is like, can you get them to talk to each other? And the results are literally insane. So we have 78 women through the process, I think they've incorporated 45 plus companies, 35 of them have raised more than $1,000,000 and they're backed by people like Sequoia and recent paradigm, dragonfly and of course pair. So I mean it's incredible. Numbers. These are not regular numbers that you would see in a random group of people. And I think again, it's important because I think we have something to say about what. Thank you. About what the next generation looks, right, I mean it's for all of us in the audience, 2% of all companies have an all female founder team. That is very crazy if you can imagine if you can do the numbers so. You know, I think perhaps Richard Branson said it better. Everyone is born an entrepreneur and everyone has the potential to learn to be an entrepreneur. It's just that not everyone gets the opportunity, right? So I think my quest is about making those opportunities. And I will say that you as an individual have your first responsibility about doing that right. You have to create opportunities for yourself. And I would say the most important is to surround yourself by the best people. So you have to play up and challenge yourself. And sometimes, you know, people don't go to places that have the best people because they have a the worst job at the company. And that's the wrong attitude. You should go to wherever the best people are so you can. Learn, you know, transform yourself. I have two very practical pieces of advice that I give my founders. First, this is very simple, but you can actually read. You can read a lot. One of my founders asked Drew, who's the founder of Dropbox, how he became a great CEO, and he said I read a lot. But then I have actually gone and looked at our top 10% of our portfolio. And there's one thing those CEO's have in common. They are reading machines. So I don't know if reading will make you a great CEO. But I know it won't hurt you so. And the second one is get a coach. I say even Steve Jobs had a coach. If you don't have money to get a coach, get a peer group because again, it's about character building. And I think what investors can do so if you're an investor in the room. I know it's a very ego high business, but it is not about us. You know, we are not the ones who make the companies. I think our role is to have create opportunities for our founders to grow and that actually will help the portfolio. And I think for society, perhaps we should have an early intervention program, much like a gifted program in schools. If you detect that there are kids that have that gene in them, why not pull them aside and create? An early intervention program and, and I'll give you an analogy, which you will understand. I'm from Barcelona, Spain. My fellow countrywoman is Montserrat Caballé. She was a great opera singer and of course today probably I'm too old to become a great opera singer, but perhaps I wouldn't. I would have had some chance, right? Maybe just sing opera in the bathroom at some point if I had been taught early on. So that's the thought. And, you know, just imagine a world where you can actually increase the total founder. Potential by just 10% or even shape who becomes to be a founder. So with that. I guess I'll go to the Q&A. Wow. Awesome. In the middle. You're in the middle. That's amazing. What a great talk. That's amazing. This is very intimidating, I know. But somehow the four of us are going to get through it. It was an incredible talk somehow. God, you're good. I have to say, you know, we're watching the talk backstage and. The nodding that we were each having and you know collectively we've invested in you know I would say closer to 1000 companies now and we're nodding and. Thank you for putting my blog post up there from from years ago. You don't have what it takes and I just realized, you know, wow. One of the fundamental problems we have, and I think having David here from the PayPal mafia speaks volumes. One of the fundamental problems in entrepreneurship is that you pointed out is people have to see it. In order to be it and you know, when you look at what happened at PayPal, and I am really interested in hearing David's perspective on this, they got to see each other at Stanford and 40% of the speakers have been to Stanford here at this event. I didn't even know that they're doing that statistic. But it seems like the fundamental problem we have in society. You can expand this and we were talking about how the mayor being, are you getting to a question and the rest of us have questions, but this is the fundamental problem. We need people to understand that entrepreneurship and opportunity in this country is available to 100% of the people here. They have that opportunity, but because they don't see someone like themselves, a woman, a person of color, a person of a woman who is a person of color, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, they need to see it to be it. That's the problem, isn't it? Well, you summarized it really well and allows you to do the talk next time. Yes. When you when you started this program, what was your goal? What did you think was gonna happen? Honestly, I didn't think it was gonna be I I didn't think that conclusion was soon as we as as big, right. I mean, if you get 20% of women to start a business, that would have been amazing. But we're getting almost, I would say 60% of them or 70% of them are going off and starting a business. It's crazy. I mean, when you take both of those two programs together, the the results are pretty crazy. They're pretty crazy. Yes. So, OK, take it out of the Stanford context for a second. How do people pick a city? You know, you're you're in Cincinnati? What does it mean to have a peer group and a network that, yeah, can create or catalyze like a PayPal, like mafia there, or even if it's in Miami or in LA or wherever you are? That seems like a really hard. It's a really hard problem. So luckily I'm young enough that I'll be able to iterate. But zoom may make that a little bit easier, too, right? I think you need that. You know, it's not just enough to get a bunch of people together, right? You have to see it the right way. So that's why I said, you know? Even for the female program, we'll get hundreds of applications and we have to go and interview everybody and see who can have high potential, right? So again, there's a little bit on the choosing of who goes into that program and then you can shape them. So again, it's that curve if you are too far to the left and your job is really, really high. I used to probably once a week, read Business Insider or Insider. And then I stopped about seven months ago or no, maybe like in the last few months. And I'll tell you why I stopped. It was for two reasons. There was this article that they kept running, basically bashing the founder of Glossier. And to me, it just didn't make any sense because it's like there are lots of people who, you know, go through trials and tribulations that startups. And when you read about her journey, it didn't seem particularly different than anybody else. You try products, some of them work, some of them fail, you learn and you move on. But they would run it and they were just hammering, hammering, hammering. They did it with the away founder, too. You know, there's a toy luggage thing, which was the craziest story. Unbelievable. Like Stuart. So, you know, I read that story. I was like, what did she do wrong? I never really understood what. Everybody work harder. Yeah, she was like, work harder. Let's make this company. Yeah. Does that make him a race? Yeah. Well, I mean, I think. Can I give you more equity? Yeah. Well, I think, honestly, that happens even to me. I mean, I'm board meetings. I look, you know, I'm not an *******. I'm a ***** right? That's the that's the summary of the situation. Welcome to the club where ********. Well, I'm not. I'm a *****. Yeah. But anyway, that's why I stopped reading it because I was like, this is really ridiculous because what is it telling people? And then separately, they kept running this ad promoting this company called Cerebral, which last week got a DOJ subpoena for selling Adderall illegally to people. And so it's like, This is the imbalance that you see when things are presented that don't really make a lot of sense to. There is a term for in the industry I didn't come up with the term chicks for clicks. And so they will look for a female founder and no chicks for clicks, chicks for chicks as in a worm for a word for females chicks for clicks. They're all trying to get clicks. If you go after a female founder, you're gonna get 10 times as many clicks. Oh really? It's just more exciting. Story I think like was such a great example of that. It was like a failed biotech company. I'm not saying that there wasn't fraud and stuff that happened there, but man, I mean the way that that that escalated the storyline. Yeah, it was. Well, I mean it's a founder plus a female founder, you know, a founder misbehaving quote UN quote, plus a female founder just equals a little more, you know, wife of the founder of we work is more famous in some circles, seem more talented. I'm curious what your questions are for, David. About the magical moment of the PayPal mafia. Yeah, what was the what was the secret sauce like being the 17th most important guy? PayPal? Yeah, he's now the 9th. What were you thinking? No, he was clearly the 5th or 6th. He tried that joke. Already know it didn't work. Don't try and don't try and resuscitate it now. You had your chance on the pod. OK, that was brutal. Yeah, I know. I thought no, no, I apologize to the entire fan base for free burns intros. Come on. Look, I'll tell you something. Every guy on the stage, no one will ever tell them what I said because everyone worked for him or wants money from them. So we can only do it to each other. We can only do it to each other. Alright, so so the the the answer is that at PayPal we recruited our friends to work at the company because literally nobody else like was willing to come work at this crazy startup. Peter recruited his friends who he had gone to college with Stanford. Max recruited his friends from U of I. That's how the initial team was recruited is through friendship networks. But it wasn't like this was some exclusive club. It's just that nobody else wanted to be a member and. Well, sorry, can I just say, at Facebook early days, it was exactly like that as well. It's like we had like, really qualified people from great schools, but it would not be the people that you would have thought. It's like the folks that, like, spun out of Microsoft, you know, couldn't succeed. And all of a sudden we were like, oh, or like, Baz used to teach zucc and it's like, yeah, why don't you just come in? It's like the TA of the class. It was not. It was very ragtag. Did did the trust make everyone because they all knew each other from before? Did the trust give everyone, like, a stronger sense of, like, being vulnerable and then. Developing themselves better because I do see like a lot of people. Well, I mean I see a lot of these companies and everyone it's all like a it's like you see early stage companies and it's very political. Who's gonna last is not because you don't really trust each other. You never work together. Well, you know each other. Yeah. What I'd say is that you you would think that the the friendships would would make it like this sort of calm friendly environment. PayPal was actually a very frictional, contentious environment and but I do think that there is a trust element to it, which is we were constantly. Baiting what the truth was right and what we need to do and what the big risks to the big business were. And so we were yelling. In fact, Peter, when he hired me, he told some of the other people on the team. Look, I want to hire Dave 'cause. I need someone here who I can yell at. Meaning, like, he didn't have to worry about hurting my feelings. He could just say what he really thought, and we could have an open conversation about what we need to do as a company, even if it meant yelling. So was it a culture of brutal honesty? Yes, absolutely. That's totally no talks about a lot, right? Yeah. Yeah. Can I ask, can I ask you guys a question? Mark? David, you use rappy? So the last time I was here in Miami was to meet the Rappy founders, and I spent a couple of days with them, and I came away stunned, kind of like what you said. I didn't realize it was that extensive, but there was a really special. Culture there, yes, PayPal obviously had that as well. But do you guys? And don't don't take this wrong way, but do you have to have somewhat more of a bounded outcome for them, these networks, to really explode? Meaning, if you look at a Google or a Facebook or even a Microsoft, when companies become almost too successful, it almost just locks these folks in and the incentive to go off with that toolkit, the peer network goes to 0 because you're just too incentivized to. That's an interesting evolutionary trait. Right. Or people make so much money that they just retire. That's what he's saying. You're totally right. The companies that they come from have to be a little hard. I don't think PayPal was easy, right? No, super hard. Yeah. And when it's hard, you learn to be, you know, to overcome hard things. And the whole company learns if there's brutal honesty, right? If it's hidden at the top and you think it's alright, nobody learns. But if you do, you do. And actually, I think the the rate of success of people that came out of founder of Google, relatively speaking, is not that high. Not that high. It's not that high because everything works and everything else for everything is easy but no freeburg you run well, he said. Oh **** yeah you're right. Sorry, but you're saying the Google people, Mar to be clear, got very soft because it was too easy. They never learned anything like an overcooked right there there are. This is actually interesting. There are more unicorns founded by ex. PayPal people then ex Google people, even though at. That sort of the PayPal mafia, if you define it as the pre IPO group of people who worked at PayPal, there were only a couple of 100 in the Bay Area, whereas Google had like 10,000. So my theory on this, having observed it in the early days of Google the the the the organization grew, the success of the company was exponential out of the ******* gate. I mean like more than most companies we talk about nowadays. And as a result all of the success was baked in the the the monopoly machine started rolling. Right away. So then the higher started being safer hires people that could be more analytical, people that could be more execution oriented, not risk takers. And so a lot of people were hired, and I forgive I went to Cal, but forgive me for saying, but all the Stanford people who basically had always done really well on their SAT's, got great grades. They'd always been successful. They'd always, you know, kind of been given that thumbs up, you're awesome, you're smart. Come here and do this job. They weren't the risk takers. They weren't the people who were willing to take risk to fail. And so the orientation was built. Culture of people that just took didn't take a lot of risk, executed. And then those people, they had this false sense of entrepreneurial success by working at Google because they were already on a rocket ship. Then a bunch of them left and tried to start companies and they're like, Oh yeah, you just build an app and 100 million people use it. It's like, dude, failure, failure, failure, failure, failure, failure, failure. And by the way, if you make it to 87 failures, then you'll have your moment of success and none of them make it past .30, right? And so I think, like an observation with so many Google people I knew that left and started companies. They either weren't risk takers or they didn't have the. The grit and persistence needed to go through the failure to get there. And it was because that culture was defined by early success and then everyone that joined was just execution, operations oriented, 100%. Yeah, you mentioned something, maybe you can just speak a little bit more about it, but we used to do these things which you talked about, where every week you would force people basically to present and what you're almost doing. And I think what we learned was you're desensitizing people to failure itself and it just becomes a nothing burger because you're just seeing this litany of just randomly. Bad ideas, almost. But that's what becomes so powerful, because then these random little things just become enormous. They show you, they shape you, and you get very, very lucky. I remember, like when, you know, at Facebook we created, I created this thing called Growth Circle. We used to run thousands of experiments a week, and we used to have folks present every week. And it was just three hours of monotonous failure, right? It was just one after another after another. But I think what it really did was allow people to feel OK, trying the crazy idea. Yeah, because they would see the 15 people. In front of them. Wouldn't it totally. Is that was that the key is that is the key. That is actually the key. And actually it makes a huge difference, right. If you. Yeah, hear every and and yet they also inspire you, whoever is actually doing great, you're like, I don't wanna be the last person, you know the next week when I have to present. I want to be better than the person that presented last weekend did great. But how do you motivate here? But Mark, how do you get people that are those high SAT overachiever types to be OK? Yeah, you have to put them in a position, so I'll tell you like one. For example, in the class when exercise, you can tell people towards the end, it's like, you know, they're all having some startup or have some users or whatever. They don't know how to start up. They have a project. I'll say, OK, your homework for next week is to 10X your sales. You have one week to do it, and people get really, really creative when you actually tell them that. And maybe they don't get to 10, but they'll get to two or three in a week. And I think that inspiration is enough for people to make the best of themselves. I think great leaders do that right. They ask for more than you think. Escape. You're capable. People are capable. What about learning failure, right. We were talking about this on the on the yesterday we were having a conversation about you know, how do we make sure that our kids grow up and learn failure like we all learned and failure, ultimately I think, and persistent failure, I think really taught me a lot about you know, putting up with failure knowing that there's. As long as doing the right thing, you'll get there probabilistically. How do you teach that? Because you know folks, especially in an environment where they've always been successful. And how do you keep them from saying, you know what, I don't wanna fail. I want to succeed because my orientation is to succeed. So when they start to fail, they run and they go do something easy which they can succeed at Stanford specifically, right? Yeah, exactly. If you made it to Stanford, but not. Yeah, I'm just. But you are very, I mean you've you've been an incredible student. I mean you probably cure cancer or something if you had to, if you got into Stanford today, right. So you're any, they've, they've never really failed at life. This is an 18 year old that has never suffered failure, at least as we understand it. You have to put them, you have to learn each of the students what is their weak point and make them actually do that. Right. So one of the things I will do, yeah, you've provoked failure. Quickly as you can. So you know, if you're a typical, you know, computer science student, you probably can create an app. Well, these days, within an hour you'll have something great, right? Try to get 1000 users. Yeah. Without spending a single dollar. Let them fail. Can you do it? Yeah. It's hard. Yeah. And then do it again. And some of them, the you know, the mental health problem is very, very high, right. I think a lot of these people, the first time they fail, they can't take it. Let me ask you one more because my I'm sorry, Jacob, but my, my, my big three predictors of entrepreneurial success are grit persisting through failure bias to action. Like you don't have an orientation being analytical. You have an orientation to taking action and. A narrative, because I think that the greatest entrepreneur is that we all know Elon's. Obviously the penultimate example. Someone told me I use that word wrong, so I want you to penultimate means second ultimate. Ultimate is what you're going for. I feel like you're wrong on that, but I'll accept it. It may be the quinoa getting to your brain. Go ahead, you may want some pro. Yeah, the ultimate definition. You had the penultimate definition, more like mix stakes. So how does narrative get learned? Because we've seen that the best entrepreneurs are incredible storytellers. They tell the story and they tell the vision before it's built, as a way of attracting the best talent and then as a way of attracting the capital and then as a way of attracting customers. And that that ability is key to success. And how do you actually, is there a way to develop important? You know, and I'm gonna even elevate it one more sales. You have to be a great salesperson. Your narrative, you're selling the story of your company, but you may be selling to A to an employee, to an investor or whatever. You need to be a good salesperson. Unfortunately, teaching sales at a higher in educational institution is considered like dirty work, so we don't even teach it, right. But it's the most important thing. So, you know, I run a little accelerator and we just like Jason and we spend the last few weeks. Just teaching people how to talk, you know, how do you explain what you do? And you know, I tell people there's nothing like practice. You have to practice, practice, get coach, etcetera. Some people are born with that. Some people you actually have to learn. You think, you think it is learned though it is. You can definitely get better. Yeah, right. It's not the world would be a better, a sad place. Mars, we were up here. Yes, we have ten daughters between the four of us. Yeah, 3223. Whatever. You can remind David about the names of his daughters. If they're on your watch, look up Mark. What? He's got a little card in here. I'd like to my wife's name is. He's got a picture, little picture, mark. What have you learned about women in terms of entrepreneurship? What what do we need to know about encouraging them to become entrepreneurs and to create companies? You know, I think the most important is. For women to believe in themselves, I think a lot of us don't. I think you Google imposter syndrome and we all have it. Even myself coming here today, I was probably the person that practiced the most because I have that imposter syndrome. That is the most important. You have to overcome that because for most men it comes naturally right on us. We have to work a little harder to do that, but with confidence. We make amazing founders, I would say. And you know, I am fortunate to work with many of them this year. Our accelerator this session would represent on Wednesday we'll have 2/3 of the founders are women. That's very impressive. They're amazing and not, you know, they're not. There's no cutting corners where the best people, but we as a society have to do a better job of stop clicking on those clicks. You know? Chicks for clicks. Exactly. Stop clicking. Well, and I think maybe you know them seeing more role models like you and I think very specifically, you know, we as all girl dads, appreciate the work you're doing. Thank you. Let's give it up for Mark. Let your winners ride Rain Man David Sachs. We open sourced it to the fans and they've just gone crazy with it. Why? Why? Why? Besties are gone. Play a dog taking out your driveway. Ohh man. We should all just get a room and just have one big huge order because they're always useless. It's like this, like sexual tension that they just need to release somehow. B. What? What did you get munchies?